Shed Geek Podcast
The Shed Geek Podcast offers an in depth analysis of the ever growing and robust Shed Industry. Listeners will experience a variety of guests who identify or specialize in particular niche areas of the Shed Industry. You will be engaged as you hear amateur and professional personalities discuss topics such as: Shed hauling, sales, marketing, Rent to Own, shed history, shed faith, and much more. Host Shannon Latham is a self proclaimed "Shed Geek" who attempts to take you through discussions that are as exciting as the industry itself. Listeners of this podcast include those who play a role directly or indirectly with the Shed Industry itself.
Shed Geek Podcast
How RealWork Labs Turns Local Jobs Into Calls
What does it take to look genuinely trustworthy in a low‑trust digital world? We sat down with RealWork Labs founder Pierce Birkhold to explore a practical path: stop telling people you’re great and start showing them, right down to the street where you delivered the last shed. Pierce brings a rare blend of math, sales psychology, and product thinking to a challenge every local builder and trades pro faces—turning website visits into calls by proving real work happening nearby.
We break down how conversation intelligence can ethically boost reviews by calling customers after install and being upfront about the nature of the call. That simple disclosure increases engagement and lowers friction. From there, Pierce maps out a stack that makes proof effortless: integrations with CRMs to auto-tag jobs, geotagged photos linked to reviews, and a thumb-friendly portfolio you can text during a quote. On your site, a clean widget lets buyers filter by zip code and job type; behind the scenes, long-form job pages give search engines the structured, verifiable data they need to rank you for local intent.
You’ll hear why AI-generated fluff backfires, why verified reviews tied to specific jobs are now SEO gold, and how “show, don’t tell” wins both humans and algorithms. For shed builders, carport dealers, roofers, and other home services, the takeaway is simple: neighbors’ installs are your strongest sales pitch. When a prospect can zoom into their area, see the photos, read the review, and recognize the neighborhood, your credibility jumps and so do your phone calls.
Curious how to turn your scattered photos and reviews into a trust engine that works on your lot and on your site? Hit play, then tell us which proof signal you’re missing today.
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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro
Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our 2025 studio sponsor. Let's be real. Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all feeling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers, while expectations keep climbing. And yet I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software, or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, ShedPro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out. ShedPro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries, and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions. From website lead to final delivery, you can quote, contract, collect payment, and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. No more double entries, no more back and forth chaos. Quoting is faster, orders are cleaner. And instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention Shed Geek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at ShedPro.co/ ShedGeek. Thank you, ShedPro, for being our studio sponsor, and honestly, for building something that helps the industry.
Shannon:Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast. Thank you guys for listening with us here today. It is a nice 55-degree day overcast here in Southern Illinois. And uh we are we are getting heat. Uh we are getting a furnace put into the church, into the office, into the Shed Geek headquarters or Batcave, whatever we want to call it, all the above. And so we're makeshift today. We're doing this from home. But uh I'm really excited about today's guest. Uh I've got Cord here with me, and we're talking to Pierce. Uh Pierce, do you want to you want to introduce yourself, your company, and just like a little bit about what you do and who you are?
Pierce:Yeah, absolutely. So, my name is Pierce Birkhold. I'm the founder of a software company for home services called Real Work Labs. Um, been around a little bit over five years now. Um me personally, I have a pretty interesting background. I've been co-founder of the software company for quite a while. I'm mainly uh kind of a sales guy, which I think uh is really just about understanding people's psychology, the problems they face, how to fix and you know identify those problems. Um I'm pretty nerdy guy, uh background in math, uh, got a degree in it for whatever reason. And kind of took those two things together. Uh and yeah, founded uh founded Real Work after a kind of a long career in inside sales. Um and you know, Real Work Labs uh since you know back in 2020 and the pandemic, the whole goal was just to uh really service an uh underserviced area of the market, which is home services. Mind you, this was uh back before I feel like a lot of investment was going to home services and they really were beginning to notch some big wins in society, especially since AI. But we saw very early on that home services and the you know um comforts of civilization and the people that support that are um underserviced um through their marketing and through the software in front of them. And so we really found and thought there was a better way to um solve their problems and the problems homeowners have connecting with them. And you know, we've been on that mission uh ever since. So um I don't know if I call it a unique perspective necessarily, but um, you know, I have been uh working with home services for a very, very long time, um, you know, and from that tech uh perspective.
Shannon:And the key is here that you're doing this uh exactly to your point from the tech perspective, from the digital landscape perspective, as opposed to, you know, your traditional means of of finding home services. Um I don't know. I'm trying I'm just thinking off the cuff of uh what, you know, plumbing, roofing, you know, uh shed certainly fits into that category because it's a product that uh you know is fits in your backyard. Uh playsets, I mean, not you know, I mean, there's a lot of other things. Uh uh we deal with carports and post frame and uh so many other ancillary products that I'm thinking it's a service for all. Many of the listeners probably remember George. Uh George came on, did a couple episodes with us. He was phenomenal. Uh, really enjoyed talking to him. George has moved on, and you know, we just kind of like uh on the Shed Geek side, we just kind of failed to reach out and get you on, Pierce, and uh kind of talk about a little bit more about your product. We had really, really good success. I think we had uh over 30 people sign up immediately for RealWork uh whenever we first got started. Uh and it was really hitting, and it was like, you know what? I find that sometimes if we don't bring you guys back around on the podcast, you can't really explain what's going on, what's new, and how it helps. So, do you want to kind of jump into um what do we need to know that's new in the last year?
Pierce:Yeah, I mean, alongside the macro environment of what's you know changed, um, you know, I would say that you have two kinds of innovation, I guess. You know, there's disruptive innovation and sustaining innovation. Um, and that's kind of like are you making something truly disruptive, something that you're hitting a target that didn't exist, right? Or are you making something that already exists a little bit better in a new way? Um and I feel like everyone's reaction, blue-collar, tech-wise, whatever, it's all very reactive to artificial intelligence. Um and it's very interesting because in the last couple of years, even, you know, since the advent of AI, like RealWorks' mission from day one has always been to foster trust online between homeowners and home service businesses. Every website, uh, whether it's you know a shed company, a roof, or a plumber, it doesn't matter, the word trust is there. The word trust is incumbent on what differentiates the service, why you should use them. We all know the horror stories of contractors that take money and run, right? And so at the end of the day, our mission has always been to overcome those challenges of digital distrust in a market where Google reviews can be bought, where websites are stock one after the other, cookie cutter, made by SEO agencies, all purely made to get picked up by Google. Um, and none of that really solves the problem that homeowners have, and they're the ones that pay the bills, right? Of appealing to what they actually need and how they build trust. So overall, you know, the big change has been the injection of AI, which already the digital world was a very low trust environment. Like I can make a fake screen name, I can buy fake reviews, I can catfish people, I can misrepresent myself in a million ways uh online. And now with the with AI, I mean, good God, uh not only is that, I mean, it's astronomic, the cost uh to produce that, right? And the ability is just the cost is close to zero, right? So, you have an even more low trust environment. And I think that that continues to uh emphasize the need for what we do, which is appealing uh on a technological level using, of course, software, but really being mindful of psychology. Um, what are human beings looking for? What do they put stock in? Um, not just what influences them is to manipulate, but like how do you actually attract for us the top players in a given industry in given markets that are authentically good companies and be able to revel in that and show that um in a different way. So overall, we're in a new world where uh trust is more scarce than previously. Um, and so ironically, where I think a lot of companies are using AI, um which on the spectrum, I think AI will always be compared, like is it AI or is it real? I think that comparison or spectrum will always exist. And so we've just taken the thoughtful approach here that a lot, every single one of our customers is using AI now to build trust, which doesn't seem like that should be a sentence, but it is because we take the information now through the integrations we rolled out, for example, like with house call, service titan, et cetera, all these big names, and using AI to piece together the elements of a story, the notes they leave, the tags that should be left, like all this really important information about a job story and stitching it together uh so that our customers don't have to do all that, right? On another front, um, you know, we are the pioneers in using conversation intelligence uh to actually get reviews from customers um over the phone, right? So your traditional text and email to get that review after you've you know uh installed that shed or you know done the work, uh, what are the new mechanisms that that you can get that um and not necessarily uh lose trust or annoy people, right? So at the end of the day, what RealWork, I think, really excels at uh is the psychology behind who pays the bills, which is homeowners. Uh so are we making the lives easier of home service businesses? Yes. What's different is same mission, right? Uh much more tuned product, way more automations in place. But the main thing that we're moving towards is utilizing conversation AI to be able to interact and uh engage customers automatically so that business owners can go about their day, move forwards with confidence, um, that they had a good delivery, that the team did what they were supposed to. This system is making sure and in a very positive, receptive way from the um consumer and getting that feedback in a way that just literally doesn't even exist, right? And so this year, you know, we've generated thousands of Google reviews using this mechanism and is soon to come to the market. Uh, and it's just a continuation of that idea. How can we take advantage of what are the technological advances of today, but then continue to keep and be mindful of real human beings, uh, what builds trust, what destroys trust, uh, what's meaningful and what's noise. Um, and so I would say on those fronts, just a lot of sustaining innovation in terms of making what we have better, and then the disruptive innovation that's really going to make this whole new market, uh, and that's engaging homeowners uh automatically through conversation intelligence and being able to make build or help being able to help businesses build themselves better and be that more consistent five-star experience.
Cord:Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, Pierce, obviously you think about these things deeply, um, you know, and I appreciate you for that. And I think you have a very high bar, especially for that um that call, you know, voice, voice-to-voice uh type of interaction through AI, because as you said, you're a sales guy, right? So you know how you know just how important that actual conversation is, you know, to being able to make that connection. Um, so I guess my question is, and maybe some of this is a little proprietary. So maybe, maybe I'm digging a little bit, but like, you know, how what where do you feel like those expectations are at today? Right? Like, does the does the customer need to understand up front that they are speaking to an AI agent who is who is working on behalf of this company to make things better? Is it okay to just kind of present that AI? Because a lot of them now are passable, right? A lot of them, you know, like you don't really, if you don't say anything, you know, 98% of the time, uh, you know, it just kind of seems like you're on the phone with another human being. So I guess like, where do you think people's current expectation is as to what their acceptance is of kind of number one, interacting that way, and whether or not the psychology of, am I being told that I'm interacting with an AI agent or is it being sprung on me? Like, you know, I think these things are evolving possibly day by day, week by week, right? Um as more of us interact. But like, how do you see that strategically for home service businesses or people in the shed industry? Like, where can these tools be deployed that your customers, whether you realize it or not, are already having that level of expectation, start to move in that direction anyway.
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Pierce:Well, I mean, and that's such an excellent question. Um, and the funny thing is, with my I'm a very, very uh quantitative person, right? So um I have uh a we have our mandate based on our mission as a company to build trust. And so it was pretty clear what direction we were going to take with this, regardless, but I tried it out anyways. And I can tell you hands down with uh you know, without a slight margin, that being upfront about the nature of the call and the fact that you know this is a digital assistant um buys massive amounts of time and stock with that individual. Um most times and in most sales situations, the more you try to avoid something, the if you say if you say uh nothing about something, if you say nothing about nothing, it's something. And if you say something about nothing, it's nothing. Right. Right? So like if you're that's why the way we deploy up front, hey, I'm a digital assistant checking in as part of your service package, boom, right? Not a big deal. And that's why our engagement levels, you wouldn't, you wouldn't believe it, right? But our engagement levels are you know 86% over 30 seconds, and it's like 70% for 60 seconds plus. And people know what they're talking to. Um so objectively, you need to remove as much friction as possible in those conversations um and make it as easy and painless as possible. But when people do know that it's a that it's an AI, uh surprisingly, uh the faster that you can do it almost uh to a uh to a it's difficult to listen to, the faster you can get through it uh and be of service and accomplish, the better off you are. Um so it's interesting that people respond well and are absolutely okay with uh something and what they're walking into being um being artificial if you're upfront with it. But that doesn't mean that they're going to give it the same time permissions that they would a regular human being. Um ironically, the faster that you move speech-wise with a conversation AI, um, the better your results will be. So, you know, our system, we found just by accident that normal speech, um uh normal speech speed isn't fast enough. We crank it up about 20%, people appreciate it, and then you get even better results. So, you kind of buy, and it's actually better cost-wise, you know, because you pay per minute to do that. So again, it's all about that balance and um it's definitively be upfront because that's also the trustworthy thing to do, and people are very willing to engage and then from that act accordingly, right? Um, have it be as not you know, as human as possible, right? Because hearing something gritting or jittery is not good, but also uh don't waste their time.
Cord:Yeah, right. That makes a lot of sense because I think even just for our listeners out there who are using chat on a day-to-day basis, right?
Pierce:To bluffs up everything.
Cord:Yeah, well, well, but also like we don't, sure, we're having a quasi-conversation, right? Like you need to actually prompt it in a semi-conversational way to get it to have good outputs, quality outputs. But we also don't think twice whenever we X out shut the screen, right? Like it's a novelty. So, like the psychology of it, and I and I think, you know, kind of we're probably in this area right now where, knowing that you're dealing with an AI, an AI voice agent is probably like almost like tickles a little part of our brain that's like let's see how good it is. But you know, I think that that also puts um there's a lot of critical execution that needs to happen over the course of the next six, twelve, eighteen months to where people are actually getting genuine value out of these AI voice agents. We need good actors in this space because if the value doesn't get delivered, the novelty is going to wear off, right? At some point, everybody is going to have dealt with one, and then you're just gonna be left with the exact same type of, to your point, uh Pierce, the exact same type of dynamic as you have on a Google Business Profile, you know, a website. And then you're just back to, well, was it a good AI voice agent? Right?
Pierce:Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cord:Right.
Pierce:Well, and that's and that's where um, you know, from our perspective, like unfortunately, there are two sides of uh AI, right? And like companies talking about deploying AI and we're using AI, whatever. I don't care, right? If I'm working with like even at RealWork, which does hire uh certain specialized marketing agencies, when they tell me they're using AI, I'm like, okay, great. So, you're gonna give me a discount. Because like that's your benefit, not mine, right? Like, I don't, I don't give, I don't care, right, that you're using AI. Like, you should be giving me a discount then. Uh, I think Deloitte is in under heat, they're in a lot of heat for this. Um so like I don't care, right? And what we're trying to do is bring those benefits of AI um to you know our customers and their deployment. Because if you work with a company that is um you know using AI to write your blog, you should be expecting a significant discount. Um and that's to their benefit because it's to their margin, right, that they're using AI and not people. And so that's where this big misconception is kicking in about the benefits of AI, because it's like the benefits for who? If I see a website ending in .ai, where I see AI on the website, I'm like, okay, and who is this for? How does it help my margin or your margin? Right. And so, with RealWork, we we're bringing the benefits margin marginally, you know, to our customers so that they can do full-on customer engagement at scale for little to no additional cost at all. Right. Like we have our base pricing, and this is just you know something that we've been including because we've modeled it and done it correctly and it's efficient so that they get the benefit of that and they don't have to pay a CSR to do all these dials or do all this follow-up or an admin. And so, they get that benefit of offsetting the human labor. If we were just using it internally and boasting about it, then it's just like, oh great. But on the voice side of things, um, to the same effect, it's whether the AI agent is a block is a blocker. So, you call into Delta right now and you're like, hey, I have an issue with my flight. Before AI, they have an IVR system. And guess what? You're like agent, agent, agent, agent, right? Like you're like, shut up, just give me to a person. And it's a gatekeeper and it's a blocker, right? And that's a horrible experience. So when people come knocking and you see a lot of activity in AI receptionists and CSRs, you know, I think that's a recipe for disaster. Um, unless you have a very, very um good model because people are gonna get so frustrated and abandon quickly. Um you know, for us, we're reaching out, and you said providing service, we are providing service, right? Like that's how we modeled it. It's psychology, it's give and take. Like what we're doing with our tool and our approach is providing service first, you know, to the to the homeowner, knowing the job they did or the installation that was done, checking up to make sure it's okay, asking a few follow-up questions after it's been done or completed to make sure, like, you know, is there any cracks? Are you hearing noises, anything like that? And offering up front if they need to speak to a person. And I think you find that good balance.
Shannon:I think everybody's pretty familiar with the sure, we'd love to get you to an agent. Yeah, and then more delayful questions. Uh-huh. More deliverable questions to get to that. So, like everybody, I think everybody understands that and hears that. For me, it's like the movie Liar Liar, where Jim Carrey's trying to convince himself that the pen is blue. This is what I look like when I'm saying, I just want to speak to somebody, please, right now, that can handle my question. Um, and like the truth is I enjoy the technology like anyone else when it works. Uh, I don't enjoy the technology when it doesn't work, but that's any technology. I think that's probably anything analog as well. I don't enjoy it when it doesn't work. I think that's a natural thing. I'm gonna go back to the basics here. Uh, it's been over a year probably since we had George on. So, for those that are new listeners that are just finding out about RealWorks, or maybe they've gone to the newsletter and maybe they've clicked on uh, you know, you guys' ad and try to like find out a little bit more about what you do. I know you did like your elevator pitch there in the beginning, but give me some details about Shed Specific. You worked with a lot of companies now uh at this point. I think Ryan Malham might have been like the one of the first guys that really embraced this and we talked about it on the show, and then subsequently saw a lot of success with people wanting to come on and use your product. So, if I'm a very if I'm just looking at this as a very inquisitive person and I'm saying, Pierce, you sound like a really trustworthy guy. Seems like AI, although I'm still skeptical, is gonna be part of a process that's gonna help me. Um I don't know you. I'm getting to know you through this podcast or whatever, so I'm learning to trust you. Maybe we trust the podcast to talk about your services. I'm just gonna ask you point blank, man, how do you help me? I'm a shed manufacturer, how do you help me? What does what you do benefit me?
Pierce:Yeah, and I will answer that uh directly point blank, that we help increase your revenue by driving more phone calls off your website and showing up in the locations that you are doing work. The analog that I can give to anyone watching this is you look up Real Work Labs right now and look at our Google reviews, 4.8, 20 more to a 4.9, but that will not sell you. Hearing this podcast, you're probably thinking a little bit like, well, if they trust him, then and you nailed it on the head, then maybe I can trust him as well. And digital distrust, right, is what stands in the way of not only you, the listener, to trusting me, because even though there's these things that are uh proxy signals that I'm worth talking to or what I do is worthwhile, you don't know yourself. And the last thing that you want is your customers to look at you the way that you are looking at me. And you're not gonna get on a podcast in front of homeowners looking for it, maybe, probably not. So, what signals, what opportunities do you have to build trust? They're a lot more limited than this video right now. You've got your website, you've got your Google profile, you've got Yelp, you got a few sources. Well, guess what? So does everybody else. So, with that in mind, how do you stand out? You don't want your customers to feel the way about you that you probably feel about me or other vendors. And so the way to do that, of course, if neighbors talked about you and you could just make it happen and the stars aligned, great. Our best business comes word of mouth and referral, but the next best thing is showing and proving it. It's social proof, right? So again, we talked about driving revenue, driving phone calls, et cetera. The ability to map where your Google reviews come from out by neighborhood, as well as the jobs that you have done, are corroborative, right? It helps build that additional trust in your business that you've been there, you've done that, you're not full of it, especially in a world of AI, um, and being able to prove that. And it helps you stand out from the competition. Uh, and even if it's something that's a few miles away, a hundred miles away, whatever, you know, the act of transparency in of itself is something that buys stock and buys trust. So overall, um, whenever there is digital distrust, and the more, the more we the less we trust the institutions online meant to build it, which we all know are highly able to be gamed and bought and whatever, um, I would just say if you can stand out from the competition and if there's nothing that makes you stand out from the competition, then something like what we do will have a pronounced impact um on how you sell, how you engage with your customers, and even down to like your ad copy and stuff, because showing the corpus of your work and having those photos that sit in your CRM, the jobs that you've done, I mean, all of that, right, is just untapped data that you can leverage and it's boring, but it works, right? And we know it works. Again, look up our reviews. But that's think about you know how that can impact um you standing out, and if you do stand out from your competitors.
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Cord:Yeah, and just to add a little more um color to that, just so and I think most of our listeners are probably um relatively aware of this, uh, especially if they had listened to the previous RealWork's episode. But you know, this shows up on the website as an interactive map, right? That that is that is showing um showing the viewer of the website just exactly where uh your jobs have been. Um you know, to me, coming from like a marketing perspective, right? When we're thinking about how do we get the highest volume of the highest quality leads, which of course the guys on your side, Pierce, the sales guys, really appreciate, and we all like to point fingers back and forth at each other. Um but you know, but uh which is I have a feeling how you wound up in this business, right? Uh figuring out how exactly do I get those better leads. Um, you know, and 3D uh builders have long been kind of the standard of how do you uh how do you get the volume of leads, how do you get that lead capture. Um, you know, but we're just talking about a, like you're saying, a digital transference of trust, right? And what makes you legitimate in the minds of the viewer. And to your point, um, I just don't know that there's much more than looking at a map and seeing that your neighbors, uh literally and figuratively, the people who live right amongst you, um, have used this service and have rated it well, uh, and then even have uh pictures and everything and a narrative to your point to go along with that. If you don't mind, could you just describe a little bit? And I know you're a big thinker, Pierce, so I'm not trying to throw you off like the big track, but could you describe just a little bit what that sort of experience is like whenever the potential customer is kind of interacting with that tool on the website?
Pierce:Yeah, I mean, I can do you one better and share my screen. Uh, and I can also describe it if that works for this medium. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. So um, you know. This is our portfolio tool, which is really meant to be done on a tablet or in person. But you know, so this is kind of a mock account. But what this shows, right, is the different Google reviews that you're able to click on imagine. These are big or like tiles, right? Because it's meant for a thumb, right, on a on a phone or on a tablet. But you know, you click into each one of these, and it's just being able to see photos, description, the review uh corroboratively, right, about like the work that this company has done in this area. So like if I were to put in 787, I think it's 36. Oh no, that's too far out. 78706. Nope, that's not even a real one. Um 26. It's one of the sixes. I don't know. Okay. So it's highlighting these different zip codes, right? I was trying to highlight one down here. Um, I don't I've lived in Austin 10 years and I still don't know the streets and areas at all. But uh if you were able to showcase this, right? And this also goes on your website. So, you know, you have these different tags, right, that are either done by you or we can have done with AI, right? Depending on the CRM, et cetera. Um, but being able to tag and show, so like, for example, if I wanted to show specific kinds of jobs that I've done within a given area, right? Let's say this was more fleshed out. And so a lot of people in the um in this view, right, are using this for that in-person sale. They're texting it over to someone, uh, they're putting it in a bit or a quote, right? To be like, hey, explore the work that I've done. Um this is that uh portfolio tool. And then we have other versions of it that go on the website in lightweight or more heavyweight versions. So for instance, we have this bump out widget um where I can put in my zip code, right? I can click in and see projects listed here within different zip codes. So being able to see these reviews, click into the jobs specifically, see adjacent reviews nearby, right? And so this is our bump out widget. Doesn't impact the page load speed, sits outside of the frame of the website. And then, of course, we have the traditional view with all the on-page content down here. So this one's actually meant for Google. This is a really long page. Um, this is what Google's gonna crawl so that when it comes time for Google to recommend you know a shed builder in a given area, you want to be telling it, hey, I worked here, I work here on this date, right? Here's the tags of the job that I did that you need Google. And then this is the review to the Google link and the photos alongside it. So it's really, like I said, corroboration, right? Adding all the little pieces together as a signal that helps this business show up on Google Maps in this area. Um, so we have these different versions, but the whole point in the sales tool and in that bump out widget, you know, there's two masters on every website that I urge everyone to really think about. Um, there's the consumer and then there's Google, right? And so, like our portfolio tool or that bump out widget, um, those are really meant for human beings. This is for a human to look at it and be like, okay, I trust this company. Uh, Google works a little bit differently. And most people have websites that are almost basically completely built just for Google. Like there's entire blog pages that nobody reads ever, right? Not even the owner knows what it says. Yeah. It's like, well, why is it there? Oh, well, my SEO company said I needed it. When was last updated? I don't know. No one's ever read it in their lives, right? But it's like real estate, valuable real estate. And that's okay because you know, that's how Google operates. But, you know, there are two masters. And where we found, um, and this is what makes RealWork innovative and different, is that your website agency solves the problems that Google has, and your CRM solves the problems that you, the business owner, has. In reality, RealWork Labs solves the problems that homeowners have. And the problem homeowners have is establishing, can I trust this company? And if we solve that, they pay the bills, you make money, right? So that's kind of the philosophical difference between them. But that's what some of the imagery here looks like. And again, on this widget, right, which we can install on any website, you can click in bingo bango, you're looking at these reviews. So this is just a different view.
Shannon:And talking about what these visual cues do, basically, Pierce is the whole purpose behind them is this little word I like to use called influence, right? The word influence or really influencer uh has such a negative connotation uh oftentimes, especially in today's world, because you can be a self-acclaimed, you know, influencer, and because you've acclaimed it, it's so. But if you move past that and you start to get into what is the purpose for which we're trying to influence, you're trying to build that trust through influence, which is saying, look at these uh uh uh look at the website and look at all of the jobs we've done in the area that you're looking to uh uh purchase a shed. So, now if all of a sudden you have someone on and you create immediate trust by saying uh it's unspoken trust, right? By saying, well, look at this. This company's delivered 400 sheds in this area. Uh people must really like using this company because it seems they've moved a tremendous amount of sheds. Now you might have moved 1,200 sheds in that area, but you've lost that trust to the person who's done 400 because that influences the decision. It's the same as why, uh, Pierce, it's the same as why we ask for reviews to begin with. It's the same reason why we ask for uh you're in sales, so so uh, you know, referrals. Most underrated source, uh, in my opinion, uh, in sales is the use of referrals because you're pulling on the resource of someone else to recommend the service they experienced with you. Because it's so much, it's so much easier for my neighbor says, Man, you should go uh buy a new Ford truck from over there at Paducah Ford because man, they just they just really do a great job. Then when Paducah Ford tells me you should buy a truck from me, that we do a good job.
Pierce:Exactly. When you there's a difference between you saying when I see testimony, this is a good example. When I see testimonials on a website, and for anybody who has testimonials on your website, I'm not exactly picking on you, but I will call this out. Listing a testimonial on your website, you know, it's like in quotations, is you saying someone said that. It's not the same thing as that person saying it, right? So as you mentioned, like being an influencer, a self-ascribed influencer, you can't call yourself trustworthy. I mean, you can, but that doesn't make you trustworthy, right? It's the people that speak on your behalf, right? And you know, we live in a capitalist world where where's the money behind the recommendation? Where's the money behind lots of stuff, right? And uh, you know, can I trust it? Can I not? And so, when you have other people speaking on your behalf, right, in such a highly monetized society like we do, which is fine. I'm not making comments on it, but at the end of the day, um, that's why Reddit is now this ultra valuable company, essentially like the fossil fuel source for training LLMs, because that's where real people go. And that's very apparent, right? So by the same token, your website right now is absolutely most people's soapbox to stand on and talk about how they're trustworthy. But again, self-escribing it, how does that make you any different than the person calling themselves an influencer or a DJ, right? Because it's about the number of people that speak on your behalf that makes you trustworthy, right? You can't just say you are. Um, and it's letting your customers and your work do your selling for you, right? Like let my actions speak, not me. Um, and that show don't tell. And so, yeah, I absolutely agree with that point you made. Um, and the more that you can show don't tell by tapping into the corpus of work you've done and letting your customers speak on your behalf, if and only if you are a business that has that, then you should leverage it and be winning all day long. However, most of the companies that have that word of mouth base, that do good work, et cetera, usually are the worst marketers. Right. And so they are the ones that look on Google and say, what the heck, this younger company that's been around two years is showing up better than me. Why is that? And it's because they don't have that install base, they don't have that trust base. And it eventually does eat and chip away at these more uh you know legacy-based businesses. So if you've got the data in your CRM, if you've done the work over the years, my God, data is more valuable than oil. You know, Facebook makes a killing off your data. Why not sell it yourself? You know?
Shannon:That's right. That's right. Are you still sharing here, Pierce? I could stop. I'm sorry, yes. Uh well, I just didn't know if you had uh I I know the I know the listeners want so bad to see, you know, the three of us. So I just wanted to get back to Yeah, yeah, yeah. My bad, my bad. No, you're good. You're good. Um if you have and if you have shed specific data, uh uh screen shares that you want to put up, feel feel free to, because we can talk through that. But yeah, it's we just live we just live in a world where definitely you can you can self-scribe. And because people are so quiet, um uh I don't know, I heard somebody make a comment, you know, like the world's looking for a leader, and the loud voices typically are the ones who say, you know, follow me. Uh you should go use this company because I say so. But man, you're actually really able to tap into, I can show you a delivered shed on a property. I can show you 300 sheds in a specific area, I can begin to lend trust and credibility. Um, I'm just trying to think of like for an ultra-conservative industry to some extent, like we are, um, where some folks don't have a website still, or perhaps they're they're not allowed because of uh culture or or whatever, uh, to have a website, the digital landscape is here, and it's like, how are you gonna work with it? So for those who are already embracing that digital landscape, um, where where are they missing out by not having that widget on, by not having the tools that you're talking about? Because for some folks, a lot of this conversation is like very welcoming and refreshing, and they're like, oh man, this is great. I love this dude. I can't wait to call Pierce. And then others are probably like, I'm not sure what this guy's talking about. It sounds like Chinese because I do not understand technology uh to the extent that some of you guys, maybe on this call, understand it. How do you win that customer over? How do we how do we build the trust with that customer who's like, explain this to me uh in more depth? How does this help me? Like, give me the give me the elementary version, Pierce.
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Pierce:Well, you know, uh the answer to the question of sell me this pen is how long have you been in the market for a pen, right? So I'll just go ahead and say first and foremost, anyone not looking for uh, you know, growth in the digital means, um, I am always here when you're ready. Uh I don't try to force anything on anybody. Um square pegging a round hole, like what I always tell you know, my people, uh, just like you don't try to go and sell a shed to somebody who lives in an apartment, uh, because it's probably not a good fit, uh, can be the same thing here. So, to those people, that's okay, right? And if the time comes, things change, um, you know, maybe that's their time to be looking. But if you are in the market for you know growth and not even just FOMO, right? But to because I mean, look, doing nothing is not staying in place. The wheel keeps turning and you fall behind. And I think that if you're an older business, you see that happen because as younger businesses who are more tech affluent and populations age, people pass away, they move, right? And um, there's a shedding and refreshing or exfoliating of a population in a given area, not all of them. I don't know, you know, the Illinois area. But there are different ways to appeal and reach out and get found. So I would say to those trying to, you have to have some degree of growth just with inflation to stay on top of things. So I think growth should always be on everyone's mind to some degree. But um, to those people that are out there looking for something like this, um, in general, I would say that you can either start a foot race that everyone else has been running for 10 years and hope to catch up, which maybe you feel like the agency down the street or whatever um is gonna get you there. But if they're if you're doing, there's there's a they say insanity is doing the same thing, expecting different results. But I think another form is doing the same thing everyone else has done and expecting different results. Like you're special. I mean, you could win the lottery, you know, but what's the probability of that? So I would say try to be innovative. If you're coming into the game at this point and maybe you're new to it, um be open to ideas for sure. I really believe that um the more you get what you want by helping other people get what they want. And as much as possible, and as intelligent as Google is becoming, you know, I mentioned that there's two masters, the consolidation down to one master that Google and its algorithm and a human being are wanting of the same thing. That's the end-all goal. Social media has actually nailed that with virality. Google struggled with it. Um in either way, continue thinking like a customer, a consumer. Continue in your own life looking at moments where you build trust and lose trust. We've to mention calling into Delta, you know, give me a person now, um, and those kinds of frustrations. Um and imagine, you know, looking at some of your uh competitors' websites, uh, and I think just some process of like, you know, what makes them different? Why do they stand out? Are they better than me? Right. Um, if I were, if I had my homeowner hat on, develop a homeowner hat, what why would I buy from them? Um, you had brought up, you know, showing some uh shed related, which I should have had this up to begin with, but you know, this is one of our uh long-standing customers, the Shed Center. Um, this is one of the versions because they looks like they service the Pacific Northwest. Um, and then I don't know my geography either, Austin or otherwise, looks like North Dakota. Uh that's that area. Uh so and then this is their portfolio tool. Um this is their portfolio tool here, um, which they send out, use for quotes, et cetera. So you can see pictures of what they have delivered, at least for this specific area, and I can zoom in and I can click on these, and I get a little bit more granular the more I zoom in, right? So if I was living in this area, you know, I've got a lot of really good proof points about this business that I should probably buy a shed from them, right?
Shannon:Um they've they're they're they're they're proving the service of building the trust just through the amount of sales that they've they've created. And when you go look at a competitor's website and you don't see that, that that uh we just not available to be able to put that on there. It's just you're j you're you have a how do I say this? Um most of the time you use spoken word to build trust in a sales process. Somebody comes in the door, you go through all of the uh things you've been taught your whole life, right? Stand up, your posture's good, good firm handshake, make sure to say their name, right? Repeat it back several times. Uh do all of the stuff that traditional books are gonna go. Go read Zig, go read Nightingale, read Simon Sinek. It doesn't matter what it is, from from way back when to today, uh, you understand all the things, but this is having to build trust on a website where spoken word isn't being able to be used. Um, and how much more proof could you need than whenever you see a I have a widget tool there that has 600 sheds delivered right here in this 50 mile radius? And if you're gonna buy a shed from us, we're not just winging it. We've been doing this a long time. We're the shed center. Look at all of these sheds we've delivered right here in this area. Why would you not trust us with that? And then you go over to the website of, you know, Boobaloo's sheds, you know, and it looks pretty rough, right? You know, and all of a sudden you have no brand authority when you get on there. You don't just have the widget tool. It's like from the beginning, um, you're having to build trust in a digital landscape the same way you would as if you were sitting on a shed sales lot and somebody pulled up today. All those tools that you have, you need to be building those tools for the digital landscape. And to me, that's what real work has always accomplished for the many clients that's signed up. Well, yeah, absolutely.
Cord:And and just to just to sort of dovetail onto your point there, Pierce, as far as you know, if other people have been running this race for 10 years and you're just starting, right, and you're going to take the same, you know, a 10-year-old approach to a website or a 10-year-old approach to catching up, so to speak, um, you know, it seems to me like I really like your insight there, that the the meshing, right? I mean, Google has always aimed to try and figure out what exactly um what metrics, what data, right, what ones and zeros it can manage to pull together to say this is a legitimate source, this is a legitimate company, this is trustworthy. I mean, that's the whole point of a Google, is to be able to, and so like we're seeing this coming together, and I already had a question in my mind, but you kind of answered it, which was you know, do you feel like uh RealWork is actually setting uh their customers up to be in a world where whenever you query Google and Gemini gives you an AI answer, well, here in not too long, it's going to be using the exact same cues that humans use, right? So, like you could potentially, if you're a person out there listening who you know, maybe you feel like you are behind or you feel like your competitors kind of have tools that are outrunning you at the moment. Uh it seems to me like Real Work is aiming at being that type of tool that builds uh legitimate trust that that Google Gemini Chat, like pick your poison here, uh, very potentially at some point you just say, Shed center looks like the most trustworthy uh uh Shed Seller in your area, right? Oh yeah, that's simple.
Pierce:Well, and the funny thing about so you're saying getting found on uh Gemini and AI tools in general, like kind of AI SEO. Is that what you're referencing?
Cord:Well, yeah, and just the way that, like you said, you know, the consumer perspective and the Google algorithm are coming to a convergence here, right?
Pierce:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Cord:With the addition of AI. So at some point, the Google algorithm or the AI Google algorithm is just gonna be looking at a website like we do, right? And what and so then you get to your point, well, what adds trust on your website? Well, what could possibly add more than scrolling in and out of 600 right to you want to know what you want to know what's uh AI search uh dislikes most?
Pierce:What's that? AI.
Cord:Yeah, right.
Pierce:There was a big session, big session I went to uh from the uh portfolio company, and they have uh you know expert on AI SEO, and he was talking about leveraging it, and one of my questions was, you know, how well, if a lot of companies, which I think in the effort of margin, uh, which of course that's always a smart thing to do, you are using a lot of AI copy, then it's like, well, how likely is AI to pick up on that AI heavy content? And the answer is not much.
Cord:Right.
Pierce:Right. So that's why um, you know, plumbing your own CRM for real data, real reviews. I mean, reviews are becoming so much more valuable than the past. Way, way more valuable. I mean, that stuff is gold um from an AI perspective. And so if you do have an AI strategy at all or plan to have one, you should continue basing it on the idea that the fossil fuel for LLMs and what they gravitate to is looking for real content and parsing out and avoiding their pollution of AI data. We they're running out of real data to train LLMs on, right?
Shannon:Which is why Reddit was uh so desirable, right? I mean, that's the whole point, is like they're looking for such real human uh interaction that they almost need the error that is the ways of the people, right? AI seems to be so imperfectly perfect. I mean, uh we really need the real talk from people occasionally because I kind of need I kind of need someone to be like uh if they're explaining it to me on YouTube University, it's like you know, hey look, I do this, but you know, I messed up and like had to buy a brand new one all over again. So I'm just telling you, I just need that person to kind of get real with me a little bit. And AI is just a little too polished sometimes. So it's imperfectly perfect, but whenever it meshes with things like Reddit, and all of a sudden you're getting real content uh from real people, how funny that it's desirable. It's I liken it to like the explosion of trades again, Pierce. Like, you know what I mean? Like we all went to college for 40 years, now all of a sudden everybody's like, who can do something? I'm a DJ. I need somebody who can do something. Hey, you, the guy who's got a four-year degree in psychology, can you come turn this wrench? Um, you know, I really need some work done here.
Pierce:So absolutely, and it's such an it's such an amazing time for the trades and anyone doing physical, physical work. It's a renaissance, of course, which is fabulous.
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Shannon:I love everything that we're hearing. I know we're kind of getting up against time here, and I want to hope uh hope to hold you on here even after we leave the audience here so we can chat for just a few minutes. Um, but I want to make sure to remind everybody if you're looking for uh Real Work Labs, uh I encourage you get the newsletter. If you don't have the newsletter, give us a call, 618-309-3648. Uh, send us a uh email, info@shedgeek Deanna. That's D-E-A-N-N-A@ shedgeek.com. We'll get you on the newsletter. You can click, there's a lead form that takes you straight there so you can book an appointment with Pierce or whoever at Real Work Labs are going to be able to take care of you. Um, I I got one question before we go. And like I said, Pierce will keep you on after we ask for just a few minutes if you don't care. But before I ask my question, do you guys have anything to add before we go here?
Cord:Oh gosh, I'm just, I mean, for me, Shannon, I mean, I know you've kind of impressed this already, but like, you know, if you haven't talked to these guys, I think they deserve a conversation because they're running in a direction that is going, that is already, I mean, today, right? It is another tool. It is highly advantageous, it is building trust, but they are aiming themselves in a direction that is squarely focused on getting you ahead, not just today, but going forward, right? And so, uh, yeah, I mean, it's just it's the second tool, right? I mean, I've personally been in the trenches of dredging up, dredging up leads, and how do you get quality, how do you get volume, how do you qualify, right? I'll tell you, there's no better lead than a person who already trusts you, already know that their neighbors have used you, have potentially looked at the map and then called a neighbor, right? Like who knows? Like the quality of these leads, I mean, I just know this from experience. Like this is a tool that needs to be in your toolbox. So I would just say, at the very least, uh have a conversation with these guys.
Pierce:And I appreciate those words so much, Cord. And like we said, you saying that and me saying that are two different two totally different things, which is why you know I'm not here to self-efficate or promote. Uh, I'm here to help the listeners and have as best conversation as possible. If I were to give any advice, you know, RealWork sounds great, or you'd like to learn more, or just you know, wax poetic on what the future looks like, we're here for it. Um the best advice I can give anyone getting out there, getting started uh when it comes to buying behavior with AI, um, just as you know, kind of parting knowledge is number one, you see and hear AI, you should be asking, great, what's my discount? Right? You should not be paying full price. You should always be leveraging anyone boasting about it, you should be getting a discount and demanding that 100%. And number two, anytime anyone's doing anything for you with AI, always demand model transparency because people can start you off and deliver outstanding with results on whatever it could be, and that LLM model is going to be the hyper, the super expensive Chat GPT 5.1. And then in the interest of margin, which we know people do, halfway through, they'll switch that down because the number one cost to a lot of this stuff in the AI endeavor is going to be switching that LLM under your feet, and they'll take it down to the one cent version and suddenly it's not working as great, and you're not sure why. So, the big, big thing, you know, lots of industries have their little ways of eking out a profit. That's the profit. Demand to know the LLM and make sure that the model or LLM model is transparent going forwards and you know what it is starting off, and you have a way of verifying it.
Shannon:We've got a new podcast that me and Cord's gonna be uh focusing on here before too long, and it's exactly for the purpose of why uh you exist in many ways. Uh, you know, we're wanting to help uh local communities uh build community. And that's gonna be through uh through businesses, through a business network. Um, you know, that's going to be through um, you know, I hate to use the word politics because it's so open ended, but we wanna have we wanna have local government on because most people know when they go to the ballot box who the who the president uh the is running, you know, whoever's running for president. But they have no idea who the local people are who are running, who actually generates more Like actual effect on their life, probably accord being one of those as a as a local alderman, which is kind of why we've like talked about these details of like why do people not know? So, so whatever it is, businesses, home businesses, uh businesses that are based off of I mean, so many friends that we've met in plumbing and roofing, uh, you know, in HVAC.
Cord:Concrete, excavation. Yeah. People who do stuff, do stuff and do it well. Right?
Shannon:We may holler at you on a separate endeavor, always thereafter. But I wanted to ask you guys this, just as a little fun practice, just out of curiosity, because first of all, Pierce, you're so well spoken, dude. You are you are like just really, really well spoken, man. I enjoy talking to you. Um I can shut up and just ask questions. That makes me look smarter because of your intelligence. Uh, but I'm curious for you guys. Does anybody know what Google means? I'm just having a little fun here, just out of curiosity. Google Plex. Okay. So, the definition of it, like what Google stands for.
Cord:Uh uh Googling, right? Like sort of eyeballing. Am I right about that? No?
Pierce:Are you are you using it as a colloquialism, like as a as a term or the actual root of Google to Google Plus?
Shannon:Yeah, yeah, the actual definition of like Google Plex or like what it what it what that means.
Pierce:Yeah, it's uh it's an exponentiation of like 10 to the whatever number. It's uh it's an unfathomably large number. I forgot what cardinality of infinity it is, but it's something massive.
Shannon:Yeah, it's like uh Google's like a like a like a million Googles or like a million millions or whatever. It's like uh, you know, like yeah, what exactly what you're saying. Uh and does anybody know, just out of curiosity, what Google was gonna be called before Google?
Cord:Hmm. Check the newsletter for the answer.
Pierce:There you go.
Shannon:Uh man, now you got me stuck, Cord, because that's such a great idea. I'm gonna give it away this time and then go do a teaser next time. So back rub was what it was originally going to be called. Oh uh, yeah, I know, terrible, right? But the whole idea, could you imagine in today's society where Google's become such commonplace in our vernacular to say go back rub it? It just wouldn't really come across as the same as go google it. Um, but this is uh, you know, the whole idea was connecting those backlinks.
Cord:Backlinks, yeah, yeah.
Shannon:And this is why Amazon was so wise when they first got started uh and what they were doing, because Amazon recognized early on uh that Google was actually indexing alphabetically. So if you were zebra.com, good luck with getting to the uh top of the page. But if you were Amazon, uh it sure did make a whole lot of sense to start out uh alphabetically. Since then, obviously, Google's put in a lot of different things to change up the idea of indexing. I just thought it was good, fun trivia. It's good. Hopefully the industry finds it entertaining. And we'll do what Cord said next time. We'll tease you with an answer, but you got to go to the newsletter to get it. Uh Pierce, thank you, brother. I love RealWork. Uh we've been working with you guys for two plus years, almost three years. Um, just had somebody call the other day uh asking about it. Uh I want to send as many people your way as we can because I believe in the service. Love having you on here. We missed George, but we found such a pleasant uh replacement, whether it's you or someone else who's coming on and representing the brand because I just love what you guys do. And I've heard so many people say it helps. And that's the key. It helps.
Pierce:Absolutely. And what's to come uh is gonna be you know even better. So I love working with you guys and hope I can always be as helpful as possible to the audience if there's anything that I can help with. You know, always feel free to reach out. I'm highly reachable. So thank you.
Shannon:Excellent. Perfect. Thank you, Pierce. Thanks.
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