Shed Geek Podcast

Why Offering Point‑Of‑Sale Financing Helps You Sell More Sheds During Slow Season

• Shed Geek Podcast • Season 6 • Episode 3

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Buyers don’t want homework; they want a simple way to say yes. We sat down with finance veteran Joel Oney to unpack how point‑of‑sale financing helps shed, post‑frame, and steel builders close more deals, protect margins, and keep sales moving through winter without slashing prices. From six‑month no interest, no payment promos to fast soft‑pull decisions at the lot, we break down the practical playbook that turns “I’ll wait for my tax refund” into “Let’s get it scheduled.”

We get honest about the role of RTO and where it shines, then zoom in on the growing segment that prefers traditional loans—especially for bigger, anchored projects up to $100k. Joel shares why loans reduce repossession headaches, how underwriting tailored to this industry improves approvals, and what makes financing a true value add instead of an afterthought. If you’re expanding into steel or post‑frame, this is your roadmap to funding complex builds and site prep with clarity.

Macro matters, too. Housing has cooled and mortgage rates follow the bond market, not Fed headlines. That shift affects backyard storage demand and consumer confidence, which means your sales team needs better tools, not deeper discounts. We talk liquidity, price discipline, and leading through uncertainty—plus the simple sales flow that sets payments early, positions RTO and financing side by side, and removes friction at checkout. Walk away with concrete strategies to boost conversions, preserve margin, and stand out when every shed starts to look the same.

Want more episodes like this? Subscribe, share with a teammate, and leave a quick review to help others find the show. Got a question about adding financing to your lot? Drop us a note and tell us what you want us to cover next.

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Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

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INTRO:

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our studio sponsor. Let's be real. Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all feeling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers, while expectations keep climbing. And yet I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software, or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, ShedPro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out. ShedPro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries, and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions. From website leads, to final delivery, you can quote, contract, collect payment, and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. No more double entries, no more back and forth chaos. Quoting is faster, orders are cleaner. And instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention Shed Geek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at shedpro.co/ShedGeek. Thank you, ShedPro, for being our studio sponsor and honestly for building something that helps the industry.

Shannon:

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast. Um I feel like I'm I feel like I'm hard to see here, Cord. You guys are showing up so bright on my screen. Gotta give me some lighting. But we're welcoming back, uh we're welcoming back a uh a fan favorite, a show favorite, and one of my personal favorites and mentors in this space, uh, Mr. Joel Oney, J Money. I'm even rubbing the hat here today, Joel. I love this hat. It looks it looks good. Um so and me and Cord are jumping in on this on uh this one for both of us. We're jumping in here to tag team and make for an unfair advantage for Joel. Um I feel like Joel can beat us with one arm tied behind his back with his knowledge. So, uh we're gonna do our best to keep up. Uh Joel, welcome to the show. How have you been, my friend?

Joel Oney:

Uh thanks for having me on. I really appreciate uh the compliments and uh love the hat because man, I tell you what, with a haircut like yours, you need something as the weather gets cold here, right?

Shannon:

No doubt about that. I'll tell you what, I'm gonna do my Jared, my Jared Ledford. I'm gonna do my Steel Kings impression over here. Uh love you, Jared. But uh yeah, no, you're absolutely right. It's getting cold, uh Joel. And uh I think you said a couple inches of snow on the ground. We're lucky enough that we're getting 52 today. Uh so I'm excited about that. But man, how have things been for you just in the in the uh finance space here lately? Uh the expo's done, a lot of the trade shows have come and gone. We're here in the fourth quarter, you know, of the of the year. Like what is uh what's on your mind, my friend?

Joel Oney:

Yeah, definitely. So Expo was great as always. Uh not only had an opportunity to pick up several new leads and clients that uh are now utilizing our platform, but also talked with a lot of our existing clients who just as they have gone through the journey of utilizing finance in their business, had questions and thoughts and comments, and we discovered new ways of helping them and coaching them to utilize the financing tool you know more effectively. And so I think that those conversations were probably as valuable or more valuable than even the conversations we had with the new clients that we've brought on. As far as our our year, it's been a great year. In fact, uh, July, August, September were as strong as any months that we've ever had from a volume standpoint of loan applications and and volume of new business booked, sheds financed. And so we feel good about that. Now we're coming into the slower season, so we're starting to talk with folks about okay, hey, what kinds of promos on financing do you want to do this fall in order to kind of keep the sales going through the winter? Maybe do some things that'll get uh some potential buyers across the finish line now that maybe would be otherwise waiting for a tax return or a year-end bonus and those kinds of strategies. So it's been uh a busy and fun time of year for us, but getting ready to go into the time when the snow starts flying.

Shannon:

Yeah, for sure. So uh when you think about uh the slow season, you know, um where does finance help? You talked about you know some of those incentives, and I was almost trying to think of like a very elementary level. I've had a lot of people ask me or generate some interest around questions about like finance or J money uh and like what you know what you're doing. And I almost wanted to start at like an elementary level, maybe give it five minutes of uh a segment to just kind of talk about like what does finance look like? How does it work? How does that what's your elevator pitch, Joel? Sure.

Joel Oney:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think I can do it in an elevator pitch rather than even taking five minutes.

Shannon:

Uh it's a tall building.

Joel Oney:

Yeah, it's a tall building. After we got banking, I got into the shed business almost by accident, helping some of my my friends that were building sheds with uh an RTO program. But I, you know, with my my mind for banking, I quickly thought, well, gosh, what other solutions could we bring to this space, especially for things that didn't fit the RTO really well, or for customers that had solid credit scores that wanted maybe some better options on payment plans. And so we went out and formed a partnership with the fintech company, helped them to develop a platform that could be placed in the hands of shed manufacturers or home improvement uh contractors of any kind, and they could then offer a more traditional finance option, payment plans right there on the spot as part of their sales process. They could talk with customers about low payments and uh with interest rates and cost of money that is significantly lower than rent to own. And so, and I'm not in any way disparaging the rent to own because that has a fantastic place in the market, always has. And, you know, again, we were in the rent-to-own business ourselves at one time. So um, you know, as far as promos that I was talking about or alluding to this time of year, you know, really what's the most popular this time of year is a six-month no interest, no payment plan. We offer several plans that are absolutely free for a manufacturer shed builder to offer, but some of the promo plans do come with a fee. But what do what do shed dealers do when things slow down the slow months usually? Uh Shannon. What's the first thing they do?

Shannon:

To me, they start looking for sales, they start trying to figure out what they can do to generate revenue.

Joel Oney:

Yeah, they start figuring out and what's one of the first things they do, they discount their shed price, right?

Shannon:

Oh well, yeah, let's yeah.

Joel Oney:

Let's put our let's put our sheds on sale during the slow season.

Shannon:

Right.

Joel Oney:

You know, 5% off or 10% off. But uh one of the things that financing does allow you to do is you can select an interest rate at any point in time that's what we call a promo rate. One of the most popular this time of year is a six-month no interest, no payment plan. And that gets that customer from now until maybe the time they get their tax return, or maybe they get their year-end bonus, and they can potentially pay that thing off in full. And um, you know, that particular kind of a interest rate plan does come with fee, but it's significantly less than putting all your sheds on sale for you know 10% off or something like that. So that's a that's a type of promo that that we see people running, you know, now during the month of November, all sheds, no interest, no payments, uh, you know, for six months. And it really helps to generate leads and um, you know, helps to you know increase the sales volume during months when potentially could be slow otherwise, right?

Shannon:

Yeah, what a great, what a great uh uh tool to be able to use. Um I I was using the term, there's two things that are coming to mind right now that I want to make sure to address. One is earlier, me and Cord were discussing, especially his time in uh farm equipment sales and tractor sales, uh, how folks who come in with a credit, uh good credit score or good working knowledge of finance uh and are looking and seeking to get the best uh deal that they can. They they have a personal relationship with their bank or uh whatever, but we talked about the the convenience uh to go into uh where Cord was working. And I could run back to the bank 20 minutes away or 15 minutes away, or you have a solution for me right here at the point of sale. So I want to make sure to to address that. Uh but then the other is I wanted to talk about barrier to entry. Uh, what does barrier to entry look like uh for finance into the space? So give me a direction you want to tackle first.

Joel Oney:

Well, let's uh start with letting me ask Core about his time in the equipment finance business, agricultural equipment finance business, because I was part of my career uh with the farm credit system for many years and helped to develop some of that point-of-sale financing for things like tractors and combines and those kinds of things. So, Core, tell me more about that.

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Cord :

Yeah, so I was probably in a slightly smaller version uh, you know, of what your expertise was in. I was actually uh Hoyer Outdoor Equipment uh is where I worked. Um really fantastic independent dealership. Uh we actually sold uh Mahindra tractors at the time. We were the number one um dealer in our sub-region uh at the time that was uh Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, and uh Northwest Tennessee, half the state of Tennessee. Um so we did we sold everything from tractors all the way down to um you know outdoor power equipment. So that would be your lawn tractors and your lawn mowers, uh, and then all the way down to handhelds. But you know, my experience um again, you know, we had a lot of success there and we're the number one dealer in several different categories, including the Mahindra tractors, and now they've actually taken on Deutsch VAR and are doing well with that as well. But you know, my experience tells me that you know the financing was always a big part of getting some of those deals um across the table, and maybe not even as Shannon had kind of set up there, maybe not even um you know, as a as a last resort or something like that to try and get a deal done, but but really because the people that we're we were dealing with are are shopping at different uh locations, they're looking at different brands. Um, you know, so if you're able to have that deal put together in-house, the convenience of it, and to your point, Joel, the programs um, you know, which are which are unique, you know, in that sort of consumer financing space versus at least your traditional bank. I know that that now some of the credit unions have a little bit more creative, you know, programs uh you know toward financing, but but you know, for us, it really helped us to meet the customers' needs, which was they're out shopping on a Saturday, they want to get this deal done, right? You know, they're they're they're making a decision today. Um, you know, and the fact that we can say, well, you know, let's fill out you know a quick application, um, you know, and we'll get we'll start getting the tractor serviced, right? We'll we'll get it on a trailer, you know, was able to to really benefit us, and we used it a lot. Um so that's kind of where I'm coming from. Um and I know that that you know, I think that that is the kind of approach that that you all take with it as well.

Joel Oney:

Yeah, I think you're exactly right. And you're really talking about two things, whether it's you're selling tractors or you're selling sheds using financing. One is that convenience that you talked about of having it right there, right now, incorporated right in with your sales process, so that that client doesn't have to leave and go to the bank, or you know, you can remove that barrier of okay, how am I going to pay for this tractor of this shed right as part of your sales process? I think the other thing that you're talking about too, though, is the fact that it's part of the value proposition that you're able to offer the client. Not only did you have a Mahindra tractor with you know really wonderful features and all kinds of great technology and so forth at a competitive price, but you also, as part of that value proposition, had the financing, the payment plan, maybe a promo rate that you could utilize as part of that value proposition. Same with the shed, you know, there's a lot of sheds out there, they're kind of the same design and same price. I know a lot of people are doing things for quality and at you know, add-on standpoint that are making their sheds stand out and really making their value proposition so much better. But to add a payment plan right alongside that that's competitive, you know, that uh gives somebody an option to an RTO plan is really something that would set your value proposition apart, I think, in the shed industry.

Cord :

Yeah, and for the, you know, again, I'm like you, I think RTO obviously has driven so much of the growth in the shed industry, you know, there's you know absolutely no uh no shade or whatever, you know, like you, no shade thrown there, but um it is just um it is it's a tool, and at least in my experience, you know, whenever you're talking about tractors, now of course, you know, as but as sheds have continued to uh grow and the industry has matured and those products have become more and more valuable, it starts to become similar to a tractor, which is you know, the customer who is shopping at that price point is not nearly as comfortable with a non non-equity type situation, right? I mean, they want they want that shed to be theirs, you know, per financing, but they want that sort of that equity up front. Um, and so it just makes sense to me that that RTO and finance, you know, be right there side by side. You know, I know that maybe that's a a harmonious uh outcome that maybe not everybody you know sees per se. But I mean to me you're you're kind of searching for two different customer profiles. Am I am I thinking about that the right way?

Joel Oney:

You're a hundred percent right. And again, I I'll just repeat again, we think that there's still obviously place for RTO in the shed space. You know, there are a lot of folks that may not have the ability to qualify for traditional credit. There may be people that are just wanting some small yard storage for a temporary thing. Uh, there may be others that just see it as a as the um you know easiest way to get that small shed and uh get it financed. So, you know, there's a a lot of reasons why rent-to-own is going to be in the shed business for a long time. And when we started in it, if we started in it again almost by accident, helping some of my friends that were building sheds to finance their sheds. And then next thing I knew, we had hundreds of barns under rent-to-owned contracts across about seven states. And I thought, wow, this is this is interesting, you know. But then I think we saw an evolution of that that uh rent-to-owned space. There was more capital that was coming into the space, chasing those contracts. And so some of those premiums that were being paid back to the manufacturers for that deal flow on the rent-to-owned side caused us to kind of you know think about that a little bit differently, and uh felt like you know, maybe the better route was to introduce a product that the shed space hadn't traditionally seen, which was a more traditional payment plan, loan product, you know, that with a with an interest rate that's you know going to be more competitive, something you know, probably around 10 to 12 percent rather than you know, rent-to-own rates that uh you know are not expressed in the form of an interest rate. But basically, you know, if you carry a lot of these rent-to-own contracts out to the very end, the customer, as most of you know, will end up paying about twice what the amount of the original purchase price for the shed is. And so we just thought, you know, maybe there's another way we could do this that would complement what's going on in the rent-to-owned space. And uh, you know, Shannon, I think one of the things you said too was, you know, why why, you know, what are the again some of the barriers to entry? I think one of the barriers to entry in this space is traditionally, you know, the credit profile of people that are buying sheds maybe is not quite as strong as maybe the credit profile of somebody who's maybe putting a roof on their house or buying a new HVAC system and those kinds of things. And so by us partnering with a fintech company to help develop some of the standards, pricing, and so forth that can be palatable to investors that are investing in those pools of. Blooms and helped to develop that for this space, I think was kind of a value add that uh you know we brought to the space that maybe is different from you know maybe someone like a uh like a Wells Fargo or a Synchrony or something like that, trying to just step into it on their own.

Shannon:

So especially given some of the knowledge that you have about the workings of it, having uh worked in the industry at least uh through rent to own or other uh just other variations of the industry, um it kind of gives you a I don't know, a different approach than a synchrony or then a Wells Fargo trying to enter into that space. Uh we we know this from marketing, we know this from consulting. Like that's one of the biggest pushes that we've said for a long time is like we know the industry, so you don't have to teach us the industry. Uh and because we know it, you know, there's some comfort there. You you know a lot of the players, the people, you even have a network, you know. We we have a network of uh 5,000 people we send a newsletter out to, you know, two, three times a week, you know, so like you're getting in front of them constantly, so you can you can increase education. And to me, that's what I don't know, and in some respects, going back to the roots of kind of like even the Shed Geek podcast has been like, hey, I've got this idea and I got this, I want to connect people and I want to educate. The tagline has literally been education through entertainment. And then all of a sudden it was like, you know, have we lost our way on educating the people? But when you think about finance, um regardless of the barriers to entry, whether it be the credit profile of the particular customer uh that you're searching for, uh, the the I don't want to use the word aggressiveness, uh, but the competitiveness of rent to own and just the availability of it because it is it is built um, you know, a lot of the industry has been built on its back through the fragmentation of the industry uh over the last 20 years. You've needed a okay, but now let's but now let me bring this full circle and let me come back to Joel, Mr. Shed Manufacturer in Nowheresville, Oklahoma, right? Okay. Uh and they say, well, there was a time where people were coming around signing up people on rent to own, and that was a service. Uh that was a service that they were providing. Hey, I can help you sell more sheds by giving you a payment option, uh, by giving you a monthly option for your customers, uh, regardless of whether it ended up costing twice as much or whatever. People saw it as a service and they were like, Well, yeah, I'll sign up and use your service and I'll start selling rent out. Now we can move fast forward 20, 30 years where it's gotten so competitive to your point, you're having to give out fringe benefits to get business, whether it's you know, in in a dealer premium, or whether it's like, hey, I'll purchase your inventory for you, you know, uh uh prefab or you know, uh just whatever, just the inventory from a manufacturer will will get that. Um software has entered into that picture, you know, POS systems, 3D systems, marketing systems, uh technological advances in the industry that are needed. So let's offset those by offering that as a French benefit through that. So now what's happened is you took a service, and people are no longer like, I'm gonna get myself in trouble here, guys. Um, it's not that people aren't appreciative for the service, it's that the dog, the tail wags the dog after a while. There's so many rent-owned companies looking to succeed, and the customers uh being the manufacturer or the dealer network, uh, however that pans out, uh those being the target audience and the customers have gotten wise enough to realize, hey, I can shop this against the next, right? Like, I don't want 5%. That's not good enough for my business anymore. You know, like I need 10% dealer premium. And you ask yourself, you know, like I'm just being real here, guys. Like, you ask yourself, what yield is left on the end of this to give away at some point? And that's why I've always said it's a it's a race to the bottom. I mean, we even offer a premium because we have to be competitive, but at what point does it no longer become valuable? So, I'm making a big argument here, so I'm gonna I'm gonna pull myself back in uh before I get in trouble. Uh, but my question is like, if it's a service that's helping you, how did we get so upside down, Joel, in taking a service that helps you and now making it competitive, whereas in finance it is a service that helps you and there's a cost to it. And that's reasonable in every other industry.

Joel Oney:

Yeah, really good, really good points. And and you you're talking about the evolution not only of the rent-owned space, but kind of the evolution of an industry whenever there are it begins and there's really strong returns, and so it it attracts capital, right? Yes, so it attracts investment. And the rent-owned space when I started in it was not in those early years of like 20 years ago, but was still in an area where manufacturers still needed to have providers help them. But then I saw it evolve to okay, there's lots of capital coming in, and people started asking me, hey, when are you going to pay us a premium for this deal flow and those kinds of things? And you know, I just look at it and I think, okay, well, it went from kind of a blue ocean to a red ocean where you're just, you know, there's some limits going to be placed upon the amount of returns to your capital that you can get. I think the other thing too that I saw evolve in this space in general was we were able to have in our rent-to-one portfolio initially repo rates and delinquency rates that were, I would say, comparable. I always compared against the auto industry. And I always thought, you know, I wanted to be comparable to the auto industry and repo rates and delinquency. And what happened, I think, for better or worse, back in 2022, when we saw that rapid inflation, that caused delinquency rates in rent-owned portfolios to change and change almost permanently because that rapid inflation caused a lot of stress on the consumers, you know, household budgets. And so I think that there's two or three things that happened there all at the same time, Shannon, that um really stressed the rent-to-owned industry in many ways. Um, and again, whenever there's capital that comes in and chases it, it's great for the manufacturers, it's great for the end consumer because the end consumer is going to get better terms, the manufacturer's gonna get better profitability on the deal flow that they're able to provide into that system. Um but again, it's more of a challenge if you are the one providing the rent-owned services that you say services, quote unquote, right? And then I think that again, that's just another reason we felt like okay, let's move from the Red Ocean back to the Blue Ocean, where there's maybe a bigger horizon and talk you know with clients about an alternative, which is you know, traditional financing of traditional loan, right? Um, again, the bear to that was what we did is we helped to attract the fintech companies with the fast, easy platform that is easy to manage as part of your sales process with the proper underwriting and pricing for the credit profile that you see in the shed space.

Shannon:

What a good soundbite. Just just listening to the whole conversation there. Uh, I love the the high-level conversation about what the direction of finance and rent own looks like and kind of its its past and and where they meet. Uh, because right now there's somebody listening who's a manufacturer, and uh Joel, they're saying, like, how does this help me? What does the process even look like? How does this help me at the end of the day? How does offering your product or your service better me? What is your what is your answer to that manufacturer? Why sign up with J Money?

Joel Oney:

Yeah, I think that's a a good question. And and ultimately, our goal is to help our clients sell more sheds, right? And if we can do that, then we're successful when our clients are successful. The way they do that is by offering a more competitive payment plan right as part of their sales process with a fast, easy, paperless process to where you can find out in a matter of just a few seconds with a soft credit pool whether or not someone might be qualified for a traditional financing loan payment plan rather than a rent-to-owned contract. And also, you know, for guys that are now doing bigger buildings, you know, $25,000, $30,000 buildings, um, sometimes those are tough to do on a rent-to-owned contract, right? So better fit for those would be a more traditional financing plan. So those are those are some thoughts I'd have around that. But uh, you know, I think that the manufacturers, hopefully, we can bring some other things to them today, too, that help them to just understand bigger implications of the industry that as well that you know will cause them to say, okay, yeah, now I understand how this fits into the bigger picture, right?

Shannon:

Give us some of that that knowledge. I was gonna sorry, Cord. I was gonna say, give us some of that knowledge. And I just wanted to address real quick, you know, you talk about the 25,000, 30,000. I just want to put another picture in in the listener's mind today. But like you guys even deal with post-frame, you know. So for those who are starting to get into the crossover products, to hey, we need to start offering more things to be able to like sustain. So we're getting into the metal side. Uh, you know, we're getting, I know at least you probably heard them here. I won't repeat them. You have to go back and listen to their episodes, but at least two or three big decent-sized companies who have talked about getting into the metal space recently, you know, and those square two buildings go up to you know fifty, sixty, seventy thousand dollars pretty regularly. They need site prep. You guys are able to help with that. Uh, so for the people who are moving into other products, your product, your service now becomes multifaceted for them if they're in post-frame, uh, steel buildings, sheds, tiny homes. Uh maybe not tiny homes. That comes with a totally different connotation or set of uh set of rules or whatever, and you could speak to that. But but yeah, give us some of that. Court, if you had a question, go ahead. But I was curious about some of the knowledge you're talking about there, Joel, as far as like the broader picture of finance, you know.

Joel Oney:

Sure. Well, just speak to a couple of things that you mentioned there. One, you know, with a more traditional financing product, you can do things that are stuck to the ground, right? You don't have to worry about repoing them because it's uh an underwritten loan that's tied to somebody's personal credit profile rather than tied to being able to repo that shed. So if you need to go out and and and repo a coal barn, uh post-frame building, or one of these tubular steel buildings, you've got a challenge there. And so with our financing product, it works better for that. We can go up to $100,000, which covers pretty good size tubular steel building as well as post-frame building as well. So uh so yeah, we've we f have followed that evolution into the steel building space. That's why we sponsor the Steel Kings podcast, throw a little uh thing in there for them, and uh also you know are working more closely all the time with with folks that are in that post-frame space that have evolved into that. So um as far as you know, bigger picture, you know, where's where's this uh fit into you know what's going on in general with things like interest rates and lending and so forth. Um Shannon, I think that uh we have seen a pretty big change in the cycle on the housing market, which I know affects what's going on in the shed space, right? You guys are uh putting sheds in the backyards of homeowners and consumers. And since about May of this year, I follow the housing market really closely. We have seen in almost any zip code that you want to pick across the U.S. a decline in all the metrics of the housing market, whether it be days on market, um, you know, inventory. It's shifting from what was a really strong seller's market from basically the end of COVID until about May of this year, back more towards a buyer's market. Now we're not in a buyer's market yet in a lot of zip codes, but um, for the most part, that has changed pretty dramatically. And I think that that has slowed some things down. And I think a lot of folks think, well, if only the Fed would lower interest rates. Well, that may affect variable rates, right? But that doesn't affect the long-term fixed rates that people use when they go to buy a new house. A 30-year fixed rate is tied to the bond market, it's not tied to what the Fed does. And in fact, when we saw this most recent decrease in the Fed funds rate by a quarter percent, actually the 30-year fixed rates ticked up a little bit almost at that same time because it didn't affect the bond market any, and that's what prices the long-term fixed rates. And so I think that we we've seen a bit of a structural change, or at least a change in the cycle of the housing market and interest rates when you know, for so long, for many of your listeners, you know, if they're probably 35 and less, they're just used to home interest rates that were three, four percent, you know. But you know, I think we're kind of back to the a new normal where we're probably gonna see long-term fixed rates on homes stay at around, I'm gonna say, you know, again, anybody can throw predictions out there, but we have a new elevated normal, I think, compared to where we were for much of the lifetime of many of your listeners. And so with that said, I think what that that does is it changes backyard storage as well, right? Because if somebody's not buying or refinancing a home, how does that impact the shed industry? Are they gonna buy more sheds so they can store more stuff at their existing house, or are they gonna buy less sheds because they're not moving to a new house and buying a shed to put their mower in and so forth? So I just think that those are some things that people ought to think about and look at as they are planning for their 2026. Will it change? Possibly, but uh right now I it it it appears that we have a slower housing market due to higher interest rates, and it's probably not going to change dramatically anytime in the near future.

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Cord :

And those assets are less appreciable at the same time, right, Joel? So just the amount of whether you take it straight to consumer sentiment or whether you just take it to real sort of you know net worth or however you want to think about it, people don't in real terms have the climbing net worth like you would have in a previous cycle, and they also feel that consumer sentiment-wise, and say, I don't feel as rich as I felt pre-COVID or whatever else. And so that you know, we're getting we're getting mired down a little bit here. And to me, that just says you need all the tools at your disposal to make that to make that sale, right? I mean, back to bringing it full circle on the market perspective. You know, if if I was um, you know, on a shed lot today, or if I was back on the uh on the tractor lot today, I would be saying get me as many tools to get these deals across the finish line as possible. And I know we've kind of been focused on the who question of where finance fits, but you know, I think it might be uh as inter as interesting to think about the where question because it would seem to me, and you tell me if I'm barking up the right tree here, Joel, but because of the um because of such a high penetration rate of RTO, you know, in the South, basically, um, you know, the do you see a path forward? Like how how do you see finance growing in the industry? Is it going to grow regionally, you know, quicker than it does? Because these consumers are everywhere. I mean, you can be in making Georgia, you know, and have an 80% RTO rate or whatever, but still have those consumers who would need finance. But just because of the nature, the dynamics of the money in the industry, do you think that it makes sense that I don't know, Pennsylvania or Ohio or Michigan be that growth area, at least initially, and prove that model out for people? Like, how do you see this thing? I know you're I know that you look into the future, you're uh a projector. So, how do you see this thing growing in real terms?

Joel Oney:

I had lunch with a good friend of mine the other day who's a president of a of a bank here in the Columbus area, and he said, Joel, you think a lot. And I don't know if that was a compliment or if I'm just uh a deep like cannon, but uh I do. I think a lot. And uh I think about okay, well, where are things going and what's happening? And I think I want to address what you said first, Cord, which is I think really smart, is how wealthy does the consumer feel, right? Because if the consumer feels wealthy, they're typically going to spend more. And I think there's a couple of things happening right now. One, there probably are in many zip codes, seeing that the value of their home has leveled off or in some cases even come down a little bit, which makes them feel a little less wealthy, right? If they have a 401k, though, it's been a good year to watch your 401k grow. Now, who knows how many of our shed. Buyers have a 401k or an IRA or an investment account, but most people do, right? And that tends to make people feel a little more wealthy as they, you know, see the SP 500 hit new highs this year and uh see significant growth in their in their um retirement portfolios. So I think we have a couple of things that are kind of working against each other from a consumer sentiment standpoint, but you're 100% right. If somebody feels a little more wealthy, they're more likely to spend, right? So I think the other thing, too, that you're saying is that okay, do we need more more tools in our value proposition? By all means. Your value proposition has to be as strong as possible. Got to have the right shed, the right style, the right options, you know, uh the right salesperson, the right financing, the right plant payment plans, all those things in order to make your value proposition as good or better than the next person down the road. Um, so as far as the regionalization of financing, uh, we can go anywhere in the United States and we we have clients all across the U.S. So I think that you're right, RTO is more popular in some areas than others, and financing is less popular, maybe, but uh there's really no, I don't think, barrier to utilizing it in any quadrant of the US. So um from that standpoint.

Shannon:

What do you I don't want to get too too deep here, or um, you'll watch a Royal Rumble with me and Cord when we start talking politics. You know, it's always fun. Uh me and him just love to sit and and debate about uh politics and different things. And I've gotten so far removed from it and the the daily news cycle, if I'm being honest with you, that I'm probably losing the majority of these arguments. But all you got to do is claim victory and you know, people don't pay any attention. Uh, you know, so but I'm curious, what are you seeing out of this um administration that's changed things if we're going with that 50,000-foot view, uh, the different tariffs and things like that, like how do those things affect our industry? You've got you know 30 years of banking, you know, there's some there's some knowledge in there and there's some foretelling, some storytelling you can give us here so we can better understand like like what that's doing to even our industry on a on a micro level.

Joel Oney:

Yeah, and I'm glad you bring that up a little bit because my philosophy on what's going on in the world as far as whether it's politics or other things that you find in your news feed that's always competing for your attention every day, is to obviously pay attention and to be informed, but don't let that dictate the way you manage your life on a daily basis or the way your attitude is towards your business or your clients or what might happen. You know, I'm a firm believer that I, as an individual business owner and your shed manufacturers as is individual business owners, they're the ones that have the most control on the outcome of what happens in their business today or this month or throughout the year. And so to get too deep into what might be happening in the news feed or politics can sometimes distract you from the job at hand, which is hey, what can we do today and make things within our purple of control the best we can make them, you know, whether that's in our household, our family, or within our business. And so that's the philosophy that I try to now. Do I get caught up in it occasionally? Yeah, maybe, but for the most part, I try to, you know, turn that news feed off and control the things that are within my bubble, right? Um, as far as things that are happening with the current administration, you know, I think that um the current administration has shown that they are set on utilizing tariffs as a way to manage negotiations, right? And um I think that that will generate revenue, um, but it also comes with some potential for inflation, right? And I think that uh the potential for sending out these tariff checks that you hear about um in the news as recently as just this morning um to individual uh you know citizens in the US, you know, that could be potentially inflationary as well, similar to what we saw back with some of the COVID relief funds also. But it also could be something that if it does happen, maybe that's something that could um boost shed sales, you know, after the first of the year uh from a timing standpoint. Most people don't believe that that will be something that does happen. I think it's just uh an uh indication of what the kinds of um the the mindset of the current administration, which is to okay, how can we uh best negotiate with the tools that we have at hand, tariffs, and uh if it's gonna hurt the American people in some way, well, we'll give them some of that tariff money. You know, I think there's a lot to be said with that that statement, whether you agree with the administration or not, right? So that's about as deep into politics as I'll get, but it's the current strategy of the current administration.

Shannon:

Yeah, don't worry, me and Cord will pick this apart over lunch. And uh but we keep it, we keep it uh amongst us. So, if you see us with a black eye on the next uh podcast, just know that it went deeper than usual. Uh no, we we love to dismiss it.

Joel Oney:

You know, I don't know that whether you like it or not from a tactic standpoint, the way I try to do is just state it in black and white terms, right? Because you just have to understand what's going on with with current politics, whether you like it or not. And I'm not saying I support or don't support the current administration. I'm just saying this is this is what they're doing. So, the sooner we get accustomed to it, then I think or plan in our business planning for what they're gonna be doing over the next three to four years, I think that the better off we are, right?

Cord :

How do you maximize it for your advantage, right? I mean, you know, just like any other any other aspect of business. Um, you know, how do you take what what you know or what you can see is happening uh and maximize that and and get an advantage out of it. And the reality, I mean, we're getting into some broad dynamics here, but the reality of what we're saying, I think is something is a bigger conversation that that we want to be having as 2026, you know, is a bonus and as we're thinking about um, you know, what this year in the industry looks like, which is uh, you know, I'm not sure that there's any great uh um, you know, really, really great data that is is truly cumulative. I think that some of the big RTO companies probably have some of the best data sets for the industry. Um, but my guess is that it's been a year of uh consolidation in the sense of uh there has been there, I think we will close the year with fewer units or level flat line on units, but with uh you know greater revenues because of those inflationary pressures. Um and to me, it's it's how do you prepare for uh potentially another year where some of those inflationary pressures are happening, where the the housing cycle is slowing, less turnover, less churn, less new home ownership, so you get less of the ancillary products that come along with that, new home ownership. Um, you know, and how do you how do you prepare for that? Uh, and then how do you take advantage of what's probably going to be another year of people doing good business and keeping liquid or quasi-liquid assets on hand are going to have lots of opportunity to go expand, right? I mean, that's the way I see it. Maybe I'm a little over my skis here. You tell me what you think, Joel.

Joel Oney:

No, uh-uh. You uh you talk like uh a person who may have you know been in uh involved with one of my banking teams at one point in time, you know. Right. Right. You know, you you said something, it's two or three things in there, Cord. Um, one is whenever there's a time of potentially um uncertain times, liquidity is a good thing to have, right? You don't want to be up next to your last dollar when there may be some uncertainty on the horizon. Um if you think there could be inflation, make sure you look at your margins and don't compress your margins if some of your inputs begin to inflate or if your labor costs begin to inflate. You want to ensure that you don't allow your margins to be to be compressed. Others will change their prices as well in reaction to those things. Um, you don't want to get into a, you know, what of those, uh, you know, who's going to starve first kinds of mentalities when you when it comes to the margins. And uh and and really one of the things that Shannon and I were talking a little bit about before the podcast was you know, pay attention to your teams, you know, each of these uh small business owners that are listening today, uh, or maybe it's it's somebody who is a salesperson who's a part of a team. You know, each of these business owners is is a is a coach, a team leader, and helping their folks on their team to focus on, okay, our job at hand is to how do we continue to meet our customers' need by providing them with a storage solution for the backyard. Basically, how do we how do we continue to sell more sheds, right? Because many times it's easy to say, okay, well, maybe there's this shiny object over here that I think could be a fix, or this thing over here it could be a fix, or I saw something in my news feed that's distracting me and my sales force. But really, the bottom line is if you can sell sheds at an acceptable margin for returns to your business and capital and management, then you can win in this space for a long time. It's a good it's a good space to be in. Yeah.

Shannon:

Gotta remember to unmute fellas whenever I whenever I want to talk. Uh I love the conversation. Joel, I want to ask you a question before we get ready to get out of here. I know you're up against the hard stuff and and our our lunchtime is upon us here before too long. Um we can we can edit this out if necessary. Uh, but I felt like a live question would be would be beneficial. And then if you're like, I don't know, it's not the space I want to get into, we'll just get rid of this part. Um, but if it's something that would interest you, um, we are really starting to get some legs and expand, you know, being a connector. It's what I've done for five years in the industry already. So, we're using Shedgeek consultation as sort of a front-leaning edge for that. Uh, we have found people in the industry who have some pretty significant knowledge in different uh workspaces, and I feel like you are exactly that. And my question is, how many people would say, I would be curious if Joel would consult with me on some things? Like, would you be open to taking on, you know, five clients uh at a predicted rate of what that would cost and understand what that workload is and just kind of uh help to mentor people? Maybe they're specifically in a space where they're like, I need a finance guru. I need someone who can just kind of like know the basics and get me in touch, you know, with uh looking over my business. Maybe it's looking at my PLs, maybe it's looking and understanding different things about business and how it works and flows naturally, and how can it benefit me more versus what I'm what I'm paying? Um, is that something that interests you, or do you want to kind of stay in the lane where you're at and uh just offer that advice for free?

Joel Oney:

Yeah, so we like the lane that we're in. Um have I done some consulting and would I do some consulting by all means? I have in the shed space and in the banking space as well. And uh uh so that's not something that that we would not do. It's not something that we're necessarily waking up and saying, hey, this is our our strategy for 2026. But if uh some of your listeners would want to chat with me about something of that that uh nature, I'm always glad to talk with folks about their business. It's what I did for years and years, and that what I still do is talk to people about their businesses, and uh it's something I enjoy is helping people to be successful, and so that's why I kind of enjoy the that space. You got a lot of entrepreneurs that uh really work hard and they're good people in this space, and those are the kind of people I like to help.

Shannon:

That's right. That's right. No, that's good. Anything else you want to share uh before we get out of here today? I just want to say a couple of things before you do. Guys, go check us out, check out our newsletter. We send out a newsletter over 5,000 people two to three times a week, depending on uh how we release the podcast episodes. And there's uh a link there uh for J Money. And if you go to the Steel Kings newsletter, uh currently J Money operates as the title sponsor there, so you can simply click on that link uh and then you can fill out that lead form to find out more information. And Joel or Andrew or someone from the team will be able to get a hold of you uh and establish that timeline to do an introductory call to answer all of your questions. They do a much better job at it than me. Uh, we just want to send them to you, Joel. We just want to line up as many meetings as we can because people are looking to help figuring out how to sell sheds. And I get it. Sometimes they just want a simple, easy uh process. And I think you guys offer that, but there's a there's a hurdle to get over initially. You know, there's some paperwork to fill out an application, and you you know what, to utilize a service like what you guys are doing, that's not so uncommon in any industry whatsoever. It's just that rent to own has become so easy that people will just not only run in and make it simple but do everything for us, they'll even pay us, right, to hand over those customers to them. But traditionally, there's some reasonable expectations, an application to fill out, a meeting to have, a training to go through. But those things are gonna help you sell more uh ultimately. So you're investing back into yourself by going through that process. We just want to get some credit for sending them over to you because Joel will send me some apple pies or something special whenever I do it.

Joel Oney:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll send you more hats like that, right?

Shannon:

So I'll take them. I'll take them.

Joel Oney:

Yeah. Well, Shannon, I think the only thing that I would maybe summarize our conversation with is what an honor and pleasure it is to spend time with quality people like you and CORD and your team. Uh, I think highly of you and your character and what you guys are trying to bring to the shed space, which is just a honest conversation and expertise, and how do we help people to be better in this space? And I think that when you come at it with that kind of a heart for helping people and serving others like you do, you know, that's why I enjoy our friendship and partnership, uh, because that aligns really well with my value system as well. So, thank you for having me on today, and uh thank you for all that you're doing to help people be better at the business of selling and building sheds.

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Shannon:

Um, you know, personally and through business. And I'm gonna tell you what, sometimes you just don't know. Um we're conservatives, sometimes ultra conservative. And the one thing, you know, in this industry, I would define it as that as a whole. Um, but one thing you don't know is is like uh how much you're reaching people uh until it's kind of put to the test to some extent. And then the private phone calls and text messages and emails mean more to me, and they probably keep me going more than what people realize. I think there's a Bible verse that talks about this. It says your gift will make room for you. And sometimes you have to rely on even those around you to encourage you in a discouraged season or or something like that. And let me tell you, the shed industry has just been brilliant. They've just been so such good people. I mean, there really is such good people. We, you know, um at the end of the day, we just we just owe God a debt of gratitude, in my opinion, for the opportunities that He's given. Um, we always want to keep him first. Uh, we mess up like everyone else. We're imperfect, you know. Uh and and in business it gets really hard, doesn't it? Because it's like, oh no, you talk about faith and business and uh and people either run towards it or run away from it. It it can become very cumbersome just to mention it. And it's like, uh, what do we do here? And uh, you know, hey, we're just we're just thankful over here that we've been given the opportunity. There was times in our life where we were searching for anything and everything. And uh then we got, you know, an abundance. Uh and those those two dynamics can be very they can be very like uh challenging to go from no opportunity to a lot. And you mess up even with some of that opportunity, you know, because you you try things, you explore, you're you're trying to see what will work. Um, I'm definitely not a seasoned business person and not I don't have 28 years of banking experience, but I do have a friend named Joel, and he has all of that. And to me, that's good enough to go and and uh use you as my own personal consultant when you have the time and the freedom that you give me to uh to direct me uh into and you have, and you've been excellent, man. I'm I'm super excited to work with you. I want people to go and sell more sheds, sell more pole barns. I want them to go sell more tube buildings, uh carports, and I want them to use the tools that's available and Joel, money's that. So, if you guys will do me a small favor and go to the newsletter and sign up or contact me so that I can get you in touch with Joel, you know it feeds me a little bit. It kind of you may not pay to listen to the show, but that's one way that I earn a little bit of residual on sending people over. And um, and um yeah, we appreciate any of you guys that would consider that. So, Cord, final thoughts, Joel, final thoughts.

Cord :

Well, for me, I just want to twist Joel's arm into committing to coming back and doing a 2026 forecast uh round table. I'm trying to put together, you know, five or six people uh to do that, and I think you'd make a great addition if I could twist your arm into doing it, Joel.

Joel Oney:

That would probably you'd probably twist my arm into doing that faster than you would twist my arm into being a paid consultant. So, I had I had a consultant tell me one time, he said, uh Joel, uh you know the definition of a consultant, right? And I said, No, tell me. He said, Well, a consultant uses your watch to tell you what time it is. And I remember that it basically a consultant basically takes your information and tells you how you're doing, right? And tells you how you can change and and so forth. And while I love doing that um and helping people, but uh my my probably my my days as a paid consultant maybe are in the rear view mirror.

Cord :

So, we'll just have a chat then, a round table.

Joel Oney:

I'd love to do that. Um anything I can do to help your listeners, because you know, like Shannon said, I have the banking experience, but I don't have Shannon's popularity and good looks. So if I have his popularity and good looks to go along with my banking background, and I'll tell you. So that's why together we make a great team, right?

Shannon:

So, it's so strange when I go to the bank with all of my popularity and good looks, they still want the same payment that everybody else wants. They just haven't caught on yet, Joel. Like, I don't know what's going on. I'm supposed to when do I get the celebrity status, right? Like, when do I get the free meals and the and the perks and the benefits for all these good looks and uh popularity? I'll tell you what, it can be a blessing and it can be a curse. Uh that's one thing I've learned is that you uh when you are speaking loudly for an industry, whether that's uh through other people's like suggestions or your own, you know, uh admission, uh assuming that you're valuable enough to say something that is more important than the silence. And that's what we do in this with interviewing people in a dialogue, um, it also can create some it can create some backlash. It can create some people who disagree. And I always say if you disagree, or even if you agree, the best place to have that conversation is on the podcast, right? Like the best place to have it is to generate the I I welcome people who think different than me. And I think we're supposed to. So, I want them to challenge my ideas and thoughts, and I want to be able to do that. I don't want to do that professionally. Uh, and I think the podcast is really a good way to do it. So, if you have questions, thoughts, concerns, uh, whatever they are, opinions, come on, come on because we want to hear them. It makes for good conversation for the audience.

Joel Oney:

I think part of it's leadership and that you're talking about. And you're leading from your seat here on the podcast, Shannon. And I spoke with a small town mayor yesterday afternoon for a while. He was talking about how well some of the things that he was doing were not maybe popular, or that some of the things he was trying to point his town towards were maybe not as traditional as what the town had seen previously. And I said, well, that's leadership, right? Sometimes leadership is really tough. And when you're bringing up topics that maybe are challenging for people to think about and digest or to expand towards the future or to create change, whether it's in your life or in an industry, well, that's that that can create some challenges at times. And but that's leadership. And and you're in the arena. Have you seen the Theodore Roosevelt speech, The Man in the Arena? And uh, you know, you'll I suggest that uh you and your listeners uh check that out, the man in the arena, but basically to paraphrase it, um, it's not the critic that counts, right, Shannon? It's not the critic that counts. That's how that opens up. It's the person who's in the arena that has chosen to uh uh participate to take the chances, to lay it all out there on the line, whether they win, lose, get muddy in the process. It's those people who really count. And they may know the glory of uh victory, they may know the agony of defeat, but at the end of the day, they got in the arena and they went for it. So that's that that's the gist of The Man in the Arena by Theodore Roosevelt. I I suggest you and all of your listeners and check it out.

Shannon:

I can't end it on anything better than that, I promise you. And I'm gonna look up uh The Man in the Arena today. And Joel, I'm uh you don't have to do paid consultation. I'm just gonna keep using your free consultation for me personally. Uh it seems to work out better uh for me. Um I do appreciate you, man. I've really enjoyed getting to know you and I'm thankful uh uh for you. I encourage people to go uh sign up for J Money. Uh I partnered with them because I really felt like they lined up with what we were hoping to do and hoping for a long-term, you know, um continued um relationship. So, thank you, Joel, and all your kind words are appreciated. Uh, I really do. Uh that that means a lot to me. Um, they always say to put your room yourself in a room full of people smarter than yourself. And I I make sure Joel's in that room every time with me uh because uh so much to learn from him. Uh and uh yeah, guys, just call. Call, give us a call because you don't know until you have this conversation, until you hop on a 30-minute hour call with Joel and Andrew and myself, and then you get to ask all the hard questions. And if it's not a fit, you know that's okay, but you don't know until you uh get in the arena. So, uh give us a call and an opportunity. So, Joel, it means a lot, buddy. I appreciate you, and I hope you have a wonderful, wonderful week. Uh, what's left of it?

Joel Oney:

So, thanks for having me.

OUTRO:

Thanks again, ShedPro, for being the Shed Geeks studio sponsor. If you need any more information about Shedpro or about Shed Geek, just reach out. You can reach us by email at info@ ShedGeek.com. Or just go to our website, www.shedgeek.com, and submit a form with your information and we'll be in contact right away. Thank you again for listening as always to today's episode of the Shedge Podcast. Thank you for watching.