Brand Awareness That Sells

If your marketing feels stuck in an endless loop of “more spend, same results,” this conversation is for you. I sit down with Dillan Hart from BHC Group to get brutally practical about what’s working right now for shed dealers and portable building manufacturers when every market has more competitors, more ads, and more noise.

We dig into the foundation most businesses skip while chasing leads: a complete Google Business Profile, consistent activity, and a real plan for Google reviews so local SEO can do its job. From there, we talk about why a trustworthy website is not optional if you want your Google Ads and Facebook ads to convert, and how weak landing pages quietly drain your budget.

Then we get into the fun part: modern “old school” branding. Dillan explains why Facebook is basically the new TV, why lead forms are often an early ask, and how awareness campaigns with rotating creatives can reduce ad fatigue and even bring your cost per lead down over time. We also talk about content quality, speaking in plain language that normal homeowners understand, and why authenticity is becoming a competitive advantage as AI-generated content floods social feeds.

If you want a clearer shed marketing strategy that builds trust before it asks for the sale, listen through and take notes. Subscribe, share this with a dealer friend, and leave a review so more people in the shed industry can find the show.

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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

Making Sales  Simple
CAL
Stryker Hunting Blinds
J Money LLC

Transcript

Studio Sponsor And Discount

INTRO 0:21

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our studio sponsor. Let's be real. Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all feeling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers, while expectations keep climbing. And yet I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software, or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, ShedPro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out. ShedPro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries, and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions. From website leads, to final delivery, you can quote, contract, collect payment, and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. No more double entries, no more back and forth chaos. Quoting is faster, orders are cleaner. And instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention ShedGeek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at shedpro.co/ShedGeek. Thank you, ShedPro, for being our studio sponsor and honestly for building something that helps the industry.

Welcome And Ways To Connect

Dillan Hart And BHC Origins

Cord 1:42

Welcome back to another Shed Geek podcast, coming to you from Shed-quarters here in Metropolis, Illinois on a beautiful sunny day. It has cooled down just a little bit, but it is absolutely fantastic outside. Shannon and myself and Deanna and Troy, we are loving the weather here as spring is springing. It's been uh good to us so far after the deep freeze of the winter. Um, today I am joined by Mr. Dillan Hart of BHC Group down in Gulf Shores, Alabama. Uh, he has a very interesting company. He and his dad, his dad started it. Now they're working together. I think it's going to be awesome. But before we get rolling, just a couple quick things so you all know how to stay plugged in with us. As I always say, the Shed Geek Call Inline, aka Shannon's cell phone. Please give him a call day or night. Uh holler at him. That number is 618-309-3648. Uh, email here at the office, info@ shedgeek.com, INFO@ shedgeek.com. Of course, go to www.shedgeek.com and explore all the things that we have going on. And if you would like to fill out a contact form there, that is also a perfectly good way to get in contact with us. The Facebook page as well, send us a messenger message, uh, shoot us a text on there. The Shed Sales Professionals group. We just put out a couple short videos uh talking about how fantastic it is in this industry that we have such a tight-knit Facebook community, a group where everybody can go and can um share knowledge and can continue to grow their own operations, their own business. In fact, uh uh Dillan is a yeah, has been using that and has been doing a great job of explaining uh uh his business on there. And also, uh before I forget, the call-in line. For anyone who is listening and knows someone in the playing community who is in the industry or might just be interested in listening to what's going on in the shed and portable building world, our playing community call-in line is 330-997-3055. Again, that is 330-997-3055. So please, uh, if you're out there listening and you have anyone in your life that you know would enjoy the podcast, but maybe they're limited to only being able to use the phone, please hand that number off to them. Uh, we always love to serve those communities. So, without further ado, uh I'd like to introduce my guest today, Mr. Dillan Hart of BHC Group in Gulf Shores, Alabama. He and his dad, I know in the shed industry, there are lots of father and son operations, uh, lots of family businesses. You don't normally get that in a digital marketing company. Frankly, that's probably more on your dad's generation for not being in that business than your generation, Dillan. But man, uh uh tell everybody about yourself, about the company, uh, about maybe how your dad got it started and how you found yourself in the shed industry.

Dillan Hart 4:55

Yeah, thanks for having me on. Um yeah, business uh I came and joined the business a little over two years ago, um, or actually probably right at two years ago now. And um, I left school. I was in college for almost two years going for accounting, and I was like, you know, I don't know if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life, and I don't know if I want to be behind a you know, desk the rest of my life. Yeah, here I am, ended up back behind a desk. But uh I love it. And I enjoy being able to do what I'm doing now and um working and being able to spend you know time with the family while we're while we're working, so that's always fun. Um but yeah, the uh dad started the business, goodness, well over 10 years ago. Um he was in marketing in the corporate world early on uh in in Nashville, and then um he got out of that, you know, after a couple years when he realized the corporate world wasn't what he wanted uh to be a part of. Um and so then after that he started up his own his own marketing agency and um naturally it just kind of graduated um to uh to sheds and kind of that industry, you know. We um we were in a community outside of Nashville to where there was a lot of um you know Amish and Mennonite communities, and uh they didn't have anything digitally, and so they needed somebody and um we had neighbors actually, so they kind of got us started with that and um referrals and word of word of mouth um in those communities goes a long way. So, you know, over time we've just grown and become more involved in the shed world and shed side of marketing. Um so yeah, that's kind of what got us there.

Cord 6:35

Yeah, we were we were kind of talking, we had a meeting a week ago or so, I guess, and we were kind of uh swapping um oh uh swapping friends, I guess, you know, swapping names of people uh down there in those communities. I think you uh have worked or still work with Hilltop, or maybe that company it actually got sold, but they're still producing uh cabins and tiny homes and everything, and worked with them. We obviously have a ton of contacts and uh clients and uh business partnerships and all kinds of things in that area as we're so close. Um, you know, I think it's interesting. Obviously, your dad is not here uh to speak on it himself, but I'm sure he shared with you the this the idea of the corporate world and you know, especially corporate marketing, you know, it seems like over and over again, uh, even in the industry, uh, a lot of the people who work in this industry in that sort of marketing setting are people who have spent time at agencies, uh, who have spent time, you know, maybe in the in-house corporate marketing department, and just how it wears on people's souls after a while. And uh and so that seems to be um seems to be a common theme uh that has he ever shared with you, just kind of, you know, uh obviously it's everything has worked out and you know the Lord's plan always does, but the way that that sort of high stress, um, you know, fast-paced kind of city agency life then winds up, you know, being shed marketers, it has to be a heck of a change of pace and welcomed, I'm sure, too.

Dillan Hart 8:21

Oh yeah. Yeah, he uh it's funny. Whenever I first came, you know, I was kind of going toward different industries and trying to figure out where I wanted to take things because he was like open to be like, hey, if you want to take this a certain direction, you know, we can do that. Um, which is super great. He's super supportive of me coming home and joining the business and uh did everything he could to make it happen while we were figuring it out. And um, but yeah, he always, you know, I would I would try and do something with another industry or something, and he would always be like, Man, our shed guys, they're uh a lot of them are just laid back and they're um man super easy to work with and we get along with them really well. That's the thing. You know, we weren't dealing with people. Um, he doesn't have any clients that really are like nagging and being like, hey, I want this right here, right now. You know what I mean? He you know, they understood and uh they took the time to listen whenever he explained how things work. So, they understood, hey, we can't just you know pop you out a website and in five hours, you know what I mean? Or I can't have it just nailed, you know, knocked out today. They understood and they would listen. Um, so I think that was nice because in his corporate world, he didn't, you know, you don't get that. You kind of have boss man telling you, hey, I need this done right now, today. And you know, and dad's over there like, well, I need this and that, and he's gotta go down a rabbit, you know, rabbit trail to get all that information, and then you know, there's just so many pieces to it, you know.

Branding Versus Direct ROI Ads

Cord 9:48

Yeah, no, and I think that you know, obviously not the entire industry is um you know um Amish or Mennonite or plain community, but I do think that there's some DNA in the shed industry where we understand that quality takes time, you know. Um and if you want something done well, um then then you know it's gonna take some time to execute things and um you know anything can be taken to the extreme. You don't want to be behind schedule, but at the same time, it does feel like there is a an understanding uh really across the industry that you know I mean it's an industry that sells primarily on quality, or at least that's what the sort of the messaging is. You know, I think that that um you know we've seen in the last um year or so that there is some big kind of pricing you know advantages and people are really competing hard on pricing and competing hard on payments. Um and maybe that's a good place to jump in because you know I know there has you and I had a conversation whenever we were um on a call last week that really led to me saying, gosh, we should talk about this on a podcast, um, where we were really discussing those two different ways of approaching um approaching sales, approaching the customer, approaching advertising, approaching branding, really. Um and you know, our kind of conversation centered around the fact that so much of the industry's, you know, paid ads or even organic content to a big degree, so much of like what is being messaged, said, marketed within the industry winds up kind of having that direct, you know, direct ROI, direct uh sales uh influence. And we were just talking about how, you know, the sort of general branding, general awareness, the traditional disruptive type of advertising that came on your television in between your show and disrupted uh, you know, the flow of your television show or your radio advertisement or whatever it's been for so many years, um, just how powerful that is. You know, like what just I mean, I know we kind of touched on it last week, but I know that you have thoughts on this and even some strategies that start to address it.

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Dillan Hart 13:22

Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, I feel like so first off, I guess on that note, like with uh, you know, with Facebook, um Facebook's gotten more and more popular.

Cord 13:34

And um it kind of is like network ad, like it's almost like CBS or ABC or MBC now. Probably more popular, really.

Dillan Hart 13:42

Right. I think uh statistics would probably show you that, you know, social media is more um more popular than just watching TV, you know, Netflix or anything like that, you know. I think uh social media outweighs all that, especially when you can bring in the amount of time that someone spends on their phone compared to maybe an hour or two at night on their TV, but I'm sure they spend you know three to four hours on their phone throughout the whole day.

Cord 14:05

Oh, those reports at the end of the week or the month or whatever are oh dreadful to think about. You know, of course, me and you and whatever, we may be using them for work, but there's plenty of plenty of side quests that happen. I mean, that's the whole point, right?

Dillan Hart 14:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so I mean, with that said, it kind of brings you into, you know, with marketing, you know, if the if everyone's spending the, you know, if that's where most of their time is focused outside of, you know, work or whatever they're they've got going on throughout the day, but they're quote unquote distractions or like, you know, where they would normally be watching TV or anything like that, um, you know, that time's now put on to people's phones and when they're just scrolling on social media, just looking at stuff, um, or watching videos on YouTube, whatever it is. Um, but which now Facebook, you know, you can watch long form content on there, and there's videos that are you know an hour long or whatever it is, right?

Cord 15:00

So basically what we used to would have thought of as YouTube style videos. Long form long form uh horizontal, right along with the reels. Now, I mean, all these social media platforms are all things to all people, right? Their Facebook has now gobbled up some of the old school YouTube long-form comment, uh, long form content while also adapting the TikTok vertical shorts, you know, that that whole thing.

Dillan Hart 15:32

Yeah. Yeah. So, and with that, you know, that that just backs up even more why so many people spend so much time on them. Um, and kind of what you were talking about with you know old school advertising, you know, you know, radio stations or whatever it was to disrupt people's day um and things like that, you know, there's a lot of trying to figure out where to start here, but there's um there's a lot of big topics. Yeah, yeah. With when you get into Facebook, it's like, you know, you've got your you can do your Facebook posts and all that, you know, and that goes so far, but if you want to really disrupt people's day, right, like we're talking about, and get your, you know, get more people's eyes on your business, because you know, in in the shed world, there's we all know, you know, the last couple years especially, it's uh gotten much more popular with the amount of shed lots that there are around you. Um, and so if you were the only one before, you're probably not anymore. You've probably got three or four around you. Um, you know, and so with that being said, you've got to find your way to stand out. I, before I was ever in this industry, you know, I would see a shed lot and just say, hey, there's a shed lot. You know, that's all I thought about it. Um, and I think probably a lot of consumers probably think the same way, unless they're somebody that deals with construction and they understand building and all that, they may go there first and be like, I'm gonna do some back-end research on quality. But if it was just a normal consumer, I wouldn't fully um before I was involved in the industry, I wouldn't, you know, think about, hey, I really need to research quality. Like, I would probably go to the first one that looked appealing from the road and uh go from there, you know, and I would or I would do a Google search and see which one had the best reviews, you know, and that's definitely applicable today. Um, I think that's a whole nother topic, getting on your organic Google.

Google Reviews And Local SEO

Cord 17:17

Hey, you just keep flowing, Dillan. You do hey, you do you, brother.

Dillan Hart 17:21

Yeah, yeah. We uh man, yeah, that's uh that's a that's such that's a big thing. I've seen it a little more recently about people talking about um small steps every day, you know, make it have a big impact. And uh specifically they've mentioned, you know, like Google reviews, and I'm always like, yes, this is what I'm talking about because it's it's so important. Um I've seen it in the past with with other businesses, and then now like Google reviews are are they have a lot of weight in um how Google ranks your Google business profile. And so when someone searches you up locally, um, that helps you you know show up in front of other people or you know above them. Um, especially if you want to work toward a business of of longevity and not have to worry about always paying for ads. You know, a lot of people will go throw a lot of money at Google Ads, but they don't they've got four or five Google reviews and they're not putting any energy or effort into that organic um local SEO. And uh to me, it's like, man, you're you're always gonna be having to spend that money on Google Ads because people will never find you because you don't do those small steps. Um, you know, making consistent posts, making sure your business profile is optimized, and you know, just consistently getting new reviews is it's great.

Cord 18:36

Um you know it's so it's so you know, I think that we've gotten to a place where like the machine is not going to stop, right? Facebook is going to continue to require more and more spend um to surface through, you know, they're moving uh, you know, Andromeda is like the name of the sort of you know update. But you know, effectively what they want is less demographic targeting, um you know, more of a more of a content-led approach. I mean, basically that they want for for you know businesses to pay to surface their content in front of the customer. Um so you're kind of they're kind of getting you from both directions. They want you to put more effort, time, and I mean, you know, inevitably money into into the actual content itself, um, and then and then also pay because they're taking away some of your the particular um you know demographic restrictions that they used to have available. Um, you know, and the combination of those two things uh is always going to continue to chew up budget. You know, so my personal, it sounds like yours philosophy matches with mine exactly, which is you know, get those organic pieces in place first, you know, like make that a priority. That's not to say don't go, you know, don't have a zero dollar ad budget. You know, you need an ad budget just to drive leads, but be really focused and prioritize those uh organic lead sources because it is totally, totally possible um to achieve the same lead volume um, you know, with a 50% decreased ad budget if your organic uh SEO results, Google Business Profile, um, you know, are performing the way that they should. So anyway, not to steal your thunder there. I think we're saying the same thing, but it, you know, really being focused on what that presence is and all the things you can control first and then feed it, right? Then push people into those tools um, you know, that you know work and are efficient uh in an organic sense.

Dillan Hart 20:59

Yeah, exactly. You gotta have a good foundation before you can start doing the other, you know, the other steps. You know, with ads, it's uh you know, in this industry, it would, you know, if someone came to us and was like, hey, we don't have anything, what do we do? I would say, hey, let's uh let's get you a Google Business profile. I'm gonna tell you about how, you know, why aren't reviews are important, why making posts are important. You know, we'll go in and fill it out and set it all up for you, optimize it and all that. But we'll get them set up with that foundation first. And then second, I'm gonna be like, hey, let's get you a website going, whether it's you know, it needs to be a smaller, simple one to start, or uh if you've got the budget to get a bigger, elaborate one to show off everything you're doing in detail, um, you know, because that gets that gets uh your foundation set because you just got to think of all the ways people are gonna find you. If you don't have a website to really back and talk about your business, you know, I think that you you take a hit from that. Um if you've got a Facebook profile instead, I think that's good. But I think a website's got more value there. Um, and you can just show a lot more content and and information about what you're doing. So it's super important there. If you've got a Google page, that's kind of another outside source of how people even find you in the first place. Um, and so you yeah, you've got to have those foundations first, especially before you go running ads, because you can run Google ads and Facebook ads all day long. And if you don't have good quality, you know, landing pages or content anywhere where you can really build trust and um you know people confidently look at you and it and your business and think, okay, yeah, they look pretty like a good choice. Um, if you can't do that, then you're just wasting money, you know, throwing it at ads. Um so you've got to have that foundation first. But,

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Cord 23:41

Yeah, absolutely. Well, maybe kind of like circling, then to you know, you you build the foundation, um, you know, you hook everything on that sort of organic side is optimized. Um you know, I think the natural thing from business owners is to is to think from um an ROI perspective, like a unit perspective on pretty much everything, which is perfectly reasonable. Um But you know, I think that so you build up your organic stuff, your website is performing, uh, Google Business Profile is performing, 3D Designer is converting, you're pushing uh pushing people from uh Google Ads into those assets. You're also um you know using the more like lead-based um you know Facebook uh campaign. So you're pushing people to your website, maybe you're even using forms, whatever else. At some point, you get you get to a point where um all of that leads-based advertising has kind of taken up the space that it can as well. And frankly, at that point, you're you should be doing, you should be pretty darn successful, right? You should be you should be selling, you should be uh, you know, uh a perfectly stable company. I think what winds up happening in that phase is then when people start thinking about, okay, now we're established, we have operations, um, you know, we have maybe we have locations, maybe we just sell out of our primary manufacturing plant, you know, it's all you know more or l more or less the same. Um but then but then they start thinking about, well, now how do I start filling in all the niches? How do I start uh taking some market share? Right? How do I start holding a higher um uh status in my in the consumer's mind in my market uh so that they're willing to pay a slightly more premium price uh over my competitors, right? You you start to think about some of these strategy things. Um, and I know that the way that you kind of approach some of that disruptive uh what I would call old school advertising, general branding, um, but applying that to Facebook, I thought you had a really good philosophy on that. Um, maybe kind of just walk us through what your mindset is, you know, because there are a lot of companies out there, a bunch, I would say most companies really kind of fit that bill, no matter whether you're still operating out of, you know, uh a primary location that delivers 100 miles, 150 miles. Maybe you've got a dealer network um, you know, that expend extend extends that out to 300 miles or whatever it might be. But um lots and lots of shed companies around the country are in a pretty similar circumstance to this.

Awareness Campaigns And Ad Rotation

Dillan Hart 26:43

Yeah. Yeah. So, to kind of go up what you said, like if you want to establish quality, you know, we already talked about how so many people are on the social media. So how do you how do you take it to the next level? Um, and what you said, it's like kind of old school, old school marketing in a way, um, except you've just got to modernize it a little bit using social media. Um, you know, you mentioned lead forms too. We um for a long time we pushed on that with Facebook too. And it was like, hey, you know, you kind of get a little bit more junk than you do from Google, but you're paying a lot less. So, it started to work out, and sometimes depending on if we if you did it right, you know, we would see better um ROI from Facebook leads rather than Google in a way, just because they're so expensive on Google. Um, and but now we're seeing that it's become so um there it's full of so many people marketing that same way and posting the same kind of content, and the content quality is really low. So, um we're kind of adjusting our approach more recently, and uh I think I think we're seeing much better results from that, um, especially long term. So, before we were trying to use Facebook almost as in a almost to get like short-term leads, um, which is what Google's always been great for, because you can do keyword campaigns, right? And get people that are actively looking for sheds, but the cost is so expensive. So, then you go to Facebook and then you're trying to get you know higher and team people with that. Well, the problem there is Facebook's, you know, you know, most people aren't getting on there to say, hey, let me find, you know, a shed near me sometimes, but it's very rare. So, we started to see that the quality for lead forms and things have started to drop, and that's kind of a kind of too much of an early ask to be like, hey, fill out your form and get this stuff, and you know, and it and it's worked, but we've recently found a way to improve that by doing what we call, you know, just basic like awareness campaigns. Um, and so I think how I explained it to you guys last week was you know, we may create a campaign with 14 different ads in it, and um, we're able to control how often, you know, someone sees each ad. So they may see ad number one once every seven days, and it forces Facebook to show them ad number two through 14 within those, you know, within those seven uh seven days if they're on Facebook that much. But the goal is that it doesn't show them ad number one every single day, multiple times a day. It'll only show ad number one at most once every seven days. So that way they don't get what you know you may see now is ad fatigue, where it's like, man, these this company's had the same ad going for four months, and um, you know, it's like it's repetitive. And in a way, it sometimes is like, all right, I'm tired of seeing this. You ever watch TV and it's like you've seen the same commercial over and over again, and you're like, I don't even want to care about this company, I will never do business with them because I have seen it a million times and it just it's on my nerves now, you know. So, I kind of think of it in the same way as that is like you got to really mix it up. Um, getting new content every single month or you know, multiple times a month, especially is really hard too. So, we found this campaign do a really good job of just mixing it up without creating that ad fatigue. Um, and if you can replace some of the content, you know, every month, say, you know, if you had 14 ads, you could replace, you know, two or three each month. Um, or if you've you know, you're like, hey, you go through it once a year, it's gonna be much better than you just doing those same ads that you know just create that ad fatigue. Um, and so the point behind those ads too is each one targets a different aspect of your business. So, it really explains like what your business is about. And going back on like how quality is so big in this business, but there's a lot of price, you know, competitions right now. Um, and so everyone's trying to get a lower price. Well, therefore, you know, the quality's got to drop. So if you're wanting to be a business that's that really does sell high quality stuff and you want to outbeat the other guys, um, or just be able to charge a higher price, whatever it is, you can use this to your advantage because it, you know, you can explain every aspect of your business, you can explain the quality details. You can, from my perspective, before I was in the shed industry, when I didn't know anything about it, if I saw these ads, you know, that ad could talk about a problem with most sheds, but then it could say, But our sheds are like this and built with this. And to me as a consumer, I may have never thought of that problem, but you just brought it up and I'm seeing it now. So now I'm like, oh, that's smart and that's a good idea. And so then that builds trust with me, with that business. Um, hope that makes sense with my little analogy there.

Talking So Customers Understand Quality

Cord 31:19

But yeah, no, absolutely it does. It's it's and I think you're you're hitting on, you've honestly hit on a a few, um, a few, you know, like problems, you know, may sound a little negative, and I certainly don't mean you know to sound negative, but a few of the the hurdles, you know, that the industry does have, um which would be that I think there's a tendency to kind of talk to itself a lot. You know, there there's a tendency to um have this kind of assumption that that you know every well everybody should know that. You know, like what do you mean you don't understand why, you know, like why is a notched runner um, you know, better, right? Well, you know, rigidity, stability, right? Like you kind of take some of these features, um, and yeah, and people, I'm not saying people don't communicate them. It's just it's not always in a way that actually um speaks to a consumer who is so, so, so far removed from from construction and construction techniques. And like, you know, the the average American consumer has absolutely no idea. So, starting at square one a lot of times is really hard for the industry, you know, because the people who are talking about these benefits and talking about why it's better have so many years of product knowledge and construction knowledge and craftsmanship sometimes passed down for generations as to why you actually you know use that style of joinery or why you uh shape your trust that way. Or, you know, like these things are so kind of you know deep in the in the DNA of the industry that sometimes it's just hard for people to actually bring it all the way back to square one and be like, hey, look, this guy has like his extent of construction knowledge was buying a hammer when he got married. You know what I mean? Like that's it. Like moved out of the house, bought a hammer, like maybe has has attempted to hang a picture on the wall and probably just stuck a nail into drywall without without catching uh uh a stud, right? You know, like I mean it like you really have to bring it all the way back. And and so, you know, I think that I think that there's a problem there just in the content in general, because really high information content just adds so much value to your brand. Um, and starting that information down at the bottom level is going to feel um almost painful for a lot of people in this industry. Um you but you touched on another thing there too, which was which is the actual content itself and refreshing it and you know, keeping it up to date, and kind of like you said, you know, if you could get uh two or three to kind of swap out in rotation, you found that that works pretty well. You know, one thing that's always been challenging uh, you know, for us here at Shed Geek uh is whenever you are needing that sort of fresh pictures, fresh video, whatever it is, that you know, there are some legitimate uh restrictions. You know, some people in the industry just can't do that, you know, by the restrictions of their church and their faith and everything else. But sometimes it's just hard to kind of just get people moving on it. You know, I don't know how that gets fixed, but it almost feels like there needs to be a roving crew of two or three guys with cameras and microphones that just do nothing but stay on planes all day. How do you how do you help or how do you encourage or what do you do to try and get your customers kind of in the rhythm of that regular uh exchange of like you know digital assets, so to speak?

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Dillan Hart 36:43

Yeah. Yeah, I'm right there with you. We've uh discussed multiple times what the logistics and costs would be to travel around and get content because it uh it makes a world of difference. And it that's I think one of the biggest and easiest ways to stand out when we're talking about this social media marketing and even on your website, like having high quality stuff because there are so many businesses and companies out there with just mediocre stuff. And again, sometimes it's not uh, you know, sometimes it's just all somebody can get, right? And they're not in that world, um, you know, of where I've grown up in it, maybe a little bit more to where like I know you hey hit this certain angle or things like that, and it and it looks really good and visually just appealing. Um but so for our for our clients, you know, we try and just walk them through like, hey, we try and explain, you know, the reasonings for what we're trying to get, and I guess just really what we're trying to get. And I think once they get that, they start to understand a little bit better. Um, once they understand what we're trying to get and why, um, and why we need things to be a certain way, you know, when you've got an image and you go up and take a picture of a shed and you're so close to when you crop it horizontally, it cuts off half the building, you know, it's you know, it's unusable at that point for us, um, you know, if it's gonna go on your website or things like that. But teaching little techniques, we try and tell people, you know, luckily we've got a lot of we've got access to a lot of content so we can show people, hey, this is the idea of like what you're trying to get here. Um, and you know, sometimes you know, you can compare and contrast, you can be like, hey, look, here's this and here's that. Like we want this, not the other. Um, so just kind of walk in with our with our clients on that. And two, I think we mentioned it last week when we talked a little bit, is just depends on the client and their ability, you know, what they can do. Um, some have you know higher abilities than others, they've got more resources and access to more things, you know. Some people have drones already, you know, and um, you know, nice cameras, others don't. Others got have uh other businesses have young guys that they're like, hey, you can be in the video. And then there's other guys who are like, man, I'm older and I don't I don't want to be in the video, you know.

Cord 38:51

And I live my whole life without being on the video, you know, it's not starting now.

Teaching Clients Without The Jargon

Dillan Hart 38:57

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, we try and just tailor it to each business. Um, it's generally how we go about it, but um, I think really once you explain what you're trying to do, it helps. Um I did want to touch on something you mentioned earlier with talking about the content about how these guys have been in it so long. And uh I related that to, you know, it's like us in the tech world, I can use all these terms, but a lot of our clients are like, I have no clue what that is, I've never heard about it. You know, I refer to your Google business profile to GBP, you know, a lot of times. And in my emails, I try and break it down because I understand most people are going to look at that and be like, what? Um, but it's the same thing in the industry with your content too. You know, um people have taken a step to then start and try and explain why their stuff is good, but they use certain words or details that don't appeal to what you said, the guys who know absolutely nothing about what you're selling. And I think most consumers are probably that's probably gonna be the majority of your, you know, your type of consumers. And the guys who do understand those things, they're gonna understand it if you, they're still gonna understand it if you um create content that appeals to the guy that knows nothing about it, you know, because they may show up on your lot and be like, oh yeah, do you have this uh this certain type piece, right? This detailed thing. And as long as you know, you're like, yes, that's exactly what that is. But in the video, I'm not gonna go say, hey, this wood has these kind of notches or something like that. Because to the guy that knows nothing about shed, he cares nothing about the way, you know, he doesn't see how that's relevant because he just doesn't know, you know, he doesn't know uh they don't know what they're looking at and they don't know what they're talking about. So, um in that way, I think taking it back a step to like in uh just being able to explain it, you know. Um, I don't know the right word. I always joking jokingly say like dummy terms, you know, like put it in dummy terms for me, dude. I don't know what you're talking about. Um like people say sometimes talk to a six-year-old.

Cord 40:56

That's like a thing that like you know, people say, could you could you say this to a six-year-old and like them grasp or be able to repeat or whatever kind of what the concept is, you know. Um and you know, it's one of those things that also it's such an irony in this industry because lots of dealers are really good at this. Lots of independent dealers who don't necessarily have like you know the ad budget, you know, that that the man that the big company, the manufacturer has, uh, to go and push out some of those messages. A lot of the dealers are pretty close to being that ideal consumer. You know, they're they are people who, for whatever reason, maybe they have a different business or you know, they've got sometimes just like road frontage, you know, and so like the independent dealers out there a lot of times are coming at sheds from that like very consumer level perspective, and as a result, really produce content that does a better job, but then frequently because they're working on you know whatever it might be, you know, I think pretty common right now is somewhere between 10 and 14 percent. Um you know, 14 being the high end, uh, you know, obviously, but they're working on a 10 to 14 percent commission. And like, you know, that they just don't have the budgets, especially as they're growing the company. You know, you think about what that means. If you're on 10%, you sell a million dollars, you make a hundred thousand, you know, um, but a hundred thousand dollars by the time it it pays for all those marketing activities, it pays lot rent, it pays utilities, it pays insurance, um, you know, not to mention what you have to take home to actually live, right? Like, you know, um, they just don't have the ability a lot of times to invest in in some of the same activities. But um, but I do find that just that shift, that that shift in in frame of reference, because I think just like all industries, I mean plumbers, you know, get into it with each other about who knows more about plumbing, who's seen more, who did a fancy valve that made this work one time, or you know, it doesn't matter, you know, HVAC. Pick a discipline, and there's always that that kind of dynamic. But I do think that a little bit uniquely in the shed world, there's almost a little bit of the dynamic that like you know, you almost want to say things in a way that tests another person that's that sees like now is this person a carpenter? Well, I'll just tell you, your customers are not carpenters or they would have built their own shed. You know, like that's you know, that's the sort of secret here. But um, you know, so uh, you know, I I'm not sure what the fix is for a lot of that, other than for guys like you to really just slow it down. Take it step by step. Um, you know, both like you're saying, the things that that you've taught yourself to do in talking to clients and really bringing it back down to, okay, you know, whenever someone searches for the type of service or good that you have, this is what pops up. This is what's called a Google Business Profile. You almost have to teach people to bring it back to that level, right?

Simple Branding That Stays Top Mind

Dillan Hart 44:26

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You definitely you got to. And that that's where you have to, that's where you've got to start. And being able to do those just basic things is super important. It's just like what we're talking about with Facebook, you know, like you've got to be able to do those just basic things, you know. Don't um and I guess back on like the awareness campaign type things, like don't overcomplicate it, you know. Simplicity is uh is a big thing here. And um, yeah, back to like old school marketing, like it's a it's a big thing, just keeping it simple. If you just post, you know, if those 14 ads I mentioned, right? Like if you just had good quality images of different top different style buildings, you know, and you had your logo in the bottom left where it was visible enough to where if someone looked at that and stopped for a second, they would see your logo, and then you know, then they're gonna see your stuff for the next three months and they're gonna see your different posts and things like that. And um, and then they become familiar with your brand. That's the whole goal. And then after that time, whenever or whenever that time is that they're ready to go buy a shed or a tiny home, whatever it is, um they're like thinking, hey, I need to find this company because I've seen their stuff, you know, for so long. You know, by that time, the goal is to that you've built a lot of trust with them and shown how you're different from all the other guys and how you're the ideal um business to buy from rather than the other competitors. Um so but it all goes in with digital marketing. It's like Google Business Profile, your website, your Facebook, you know, used to Facebook. I didn't think you know it wasn't really as relevant, but now we're in a world where it's so big, it's like it's pretty relevant now. Um in any kind of business, you know. Before it was like you could, you know, post some pictures on there, so if people come across it, you know, it's at least showing that you're active and you know, you don't you're don't you don't want to be one of those businesses that's like hey, I haven't posted since 2024, you know, like it at least shows that way to tell, right?

Cord 46:28

That's the easiest way. I mean, you know, whenever we do um, you know, I guess market research basically. Um, you know, whenever we are we're out here searching up a company, the easiest way to tell, like, are they active? Are they looking to grow? Are they pursuing you know, a strategy of X, Y, or Z is just to go and check and see like, well, if they have activity, right? And what that activity says. And like this is common, you know, this is a common way that that people have learned to use these resources. Um you know, and so you know, I think that that your approach and um, you know, not only with Facebook and that general advertising, uh, awareness advertising, that true old school, disruptive, you know, let's bring a message uh to the consumer that uh is uh can be sequential, like you're saying, right? We want this, then that, then that. So you can bring sequential messages, such an advantage over television and radio where you have no idea who particularly is watching, you can bring uh retargeted. So you can actually say, because they watched this, then that, then that, I would now like to show them this other thing, right? Um, you know, retargeting, you know, you're but really focusing on bringing that message back down, starting truly, truly at square one with a you know, bottom-up kind of a branding uh and awareness campaign that builds trust, uh, you know, speaks the language that the consumer can actually understand. Um and also uh we haven't even, you know, we're running up against what I continue to every time I say, you know, I'm gonna try and keep it to 45 minutes, I feel like I run over. But, you know, and we're not even getting into some of the other fun parts uh, you know, of that conventional branding, which is um, you know, uh a mascot, uh a jingle, right? Like the other things that just continue to drive that brand deeper and deeper, you know, into your subconscious awareness. Um you know, but these are the activities that actually gain market share in a you know in a market where you have you you've done all the effective things, right? You've you are appearing to people, your website, once they get there, is converting people. Your uh, you know, your Facebook uh marketplace ads are always updated and you're rotating um your Facebook lead forms, if you still have a version of lead forms running, um you know, is effectively converting those. Messenger, same thing, pushing people to the website, like you're doing all the things, you know. So then when you get to a point where it's like, okay, now how do I, and so is everybody else, right? Because for most people out there at this point, you know, the shed industry has become big enough and competitive enough that in pretty well, you know, every market or every market, certainly in every market's delivery area, you know, maybe not literally in every single town, but in your delivery area, you have two or three other shed companies that are also doing all those things and doing them perfectly well and collecting the leads. And, you know, you're kind of competing on that uh cost per conversion basis, you know. So then how do you really start to grow the brand in a way that that takes other people's market share? And it's exactly what you said it's having those general branding, general awareness campaigns that are not directly targeted at converting that person right that second, because that person doesn't, you know, they're just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What do you mean? You know, uh, and I'm all for promotions. I want to be specific about that. Promotions work, you know, it's why uh it's why people have always run buy one, get one, 10% off, uh, you know, uh uh Black Friday, you know, after Thanksgiving, right? Like they work, but also um when you're coming at people and the first thing that they see from your company, you know, they've maybe they're uh 22 years old, they just graduated college, they have never once in their life gotten, you know, gotten on anybody's uh um uh you know data uh data trackers. You know, they've never gotten on somebody's Pixel or uh, you know, Metapixel or Google Tag or any of that. And so, I guess what I'm saying is um those people who are just kind of fresh into becoming you know your ideal consumer, that's the time to just start that general awareness um and build up to the point where you can then convert them into a super high quality lead. So um, you know, I know that this conversation in and of itself is going to make some people uh uncomfortable because everybody wants a uh a sort of ROI metric that is immediate that tells them exactly how this campaign performed this month. But as this industry continues to progress and be more competitive and work its way into every little niche, um these are the activities that actually uh start to make the difference.

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Awareness Ads That Lower Lead Costs

Dillan Hart 53:42

Definitely, and I and I think they're the they're the activities that aren't gonna break the bank, you know, they're like these awareness campaigns we're talking about, like, you know, depending on how far you want to reach and all that, but you know, you can they're the cheapest campaigns we run. Um you know, compared to lead forms, you know, depend depending on how you do your lead forms and all of that, you know, your costs can your costs can range. Um, but if you're wanting a high quality lead, which means you're probably making them fill out a bunch of information, um, your costs are gonna be really high. And you know, we probably run awareness campaigns or uh yeah, an awareness campaign with 14 different ads cheaper in a day for these smaller businesses um than they would spend on a really, really high quality lead from Facebook. Um, you know, we're able to do that. So, it's a cheap, it's a much cheaper way just to get your face out there, and um yeah, we're just seeing much better results. You know, talking about lead forms specifically with Facebook, that was the approach we used to do was all lead forms. Um and now we're seeing we're splitting off that budget with these awareness campaigns, and we're actually seeing it drive our lead form cost down, which is really good. So, now we're able to then crank up the quality a little bit more, and we're not having to like raise the price on what we're getting. You know, we're able to still get a high quality um lead. Um, we're able to get it at a cheaper price now because of these awareness campaigns. So we're already doing better there. And along the way, with these awareness campaigns, you know, we're sending people to just look at the website and things like that. So, then we're getting more um conversions just directly at the website, too, and things like that. And and that all helps again with the whole branding aspect. Now they've seen your website, they've seen your business, they know what you're about, and all the things. Um, you know, you talk about the 22-year-old, it's like, you know, he may not know it now, but in four years, you know, he's gonna be like, I've seen these guys around, I know they're my local go-to guy, or you know, within 50 miles or however long, you know, they're who I want to buy from. You know, I remember, you know, the ads that they would run and showing, you know, what this nice shed looked like in the back of someone's yard after they did a fully finished out backyard all built around it and stuff. And they're like, man, you know, that ad really showed showed uh the experience um and kind of the result of you know buying their shed, you know what I mean? And and kind of made, you know, it just I think that makes that connection with people. And they're like, I want that. I want that shed because that doesn't just look like a shed thrown in a backyard or uh somewhere random. It's meshed in with the someone's backyard completely. You know, it fits and they're like, I want that, you know.

Cord 56:22

Yeah, absolutely. No, hey, look, I think your philosophy uh is fantastic. I think you're approaching this in such a good way and with such enthusiasm. Um, you know, and I know um, you know, kind of bringing that that youthful uh energy uh you know to to the company that your dad started. I just think that you guys have such a good operation going on uh and are are doing such a good job, you know, at that um at that strategy, at that that very base level of um what are we saying? Why are we saying it? Are we are we actually talking to the customer? Um and now let's walk them through, you know, let's walk them through these different kinds of phases uh and really prime them to be a great customer. I mean it's awesome that you're the awareness campaigns are driving down the cost of the actual lead forms, um you know, which of course that's what you would expect. Um you're getting the message in front of them while not making a direct ask, right? Then whenever you do come back and have a campaign, whether that's a direct retargeting campaign uh or whether you basically just get overlap, you know, inside of those two uh uh demographic areas or whatever it might be, however you're setting those up, you know, for your own strategy. But either way, um, you know, you do have all of the tertiary benefits. So, uh I think it is very important that people start thinking in this direction uh because competition, the shed industry, the markets out there are starting to demand it, and the people who start adopting it and figuring it out sooner rather than later are ultimately going to have the advantage. So, thank you, Dillan, so much um for being on today. Uh really enjoyed our conversation last week, enjoyed our conversation again here today. Um, any final thoughts? Uh, maybe go ahead and give people um you know how to reach out to you, uh, what the best way is. Of course, you all always know that you can reach out to us here at the Shed Geek Podcast, and we're always happy to put you in touch, uh, do a handoff, even jump on a meeting with you uh if that helps kind of decipher through some of these things. So, tell us tell how tell us how to get to you, Dillan.

Dillan Hart 58:50

Yeah, you guys can reach out to us at uh bhcgroup.biz. Um and then you can also you know give us a call at 615-538-8254, and my extension is 702. So um last note is uh regarding social media, I do recommend we've seen we've seen this get more popular with the AI stuff, and I would say I would urge everyone to be careful with AI stuff if and in the way is uh if you're helping, if you're using it to enhance, you know, pictures and things like that, it's okay, you know, um, and I think it can work, but I think whenever you start getting into AI videos where they've got AI generated person, and uh, you know, I think you got to be very careful with that. So, just a little last little note for social media is uh be careful. I think authenticity is uh is a lot of people are noticing that and more drawn to that now because and all over the world and social media has just flipped to all this AI stuff, and I think a lot of people are you know they're over it in the content aspect, especially when it comes to actually buying something. If they're looking for entertainment, sure, it's fine. But if they're like, hey, I want to go buy something, it's even rough.

How To Reach Dillan And Closing

Cord 1:00:08

I mean, you know, maybe, you know, but but even in that aspect, I mean it's still it's still pretty rough. The stuff that's good is good with a lot of and you know, it's good with a lot of hands, a lot of human hands still like helping it to be good, you know, and you know, especially for small businesses and uh you know the types of folks out there listening right now, um you know, we just the resources to be able to produce that type of content and then also edit it and also continue to prompt back and forth and find something that doesn't just uh really kind of you know the uncanny valley is the you know is the old terminology for those things that are like close enough to being real, but far enough away from being genuine that they just they almost cause that like tactile response of like the skin or the hair on the back of your neck uh you know to stand up or goosebump, you know, and it just kind of feels icky. Um, and I think that you know, in that area of branding and brand awareness and old school advertising and everything like that, like you're there's really a high potential to do some damage to that overall like public image, that overall brand image. Um, if you're not just really, really doing a good job, especially on the content side. Um, you know, I think people have accepted it on the tech side. Uh, I always try to back out the m-dashes, you know, like if you know, like try to try to take away some of those those tendencies of of the models. Um, although I would argue the M-dash, you know, actually makes a uh good impact, you know, like Mark Twain, those guys wrote with a lot of M-dashes, and it makes for a better sentence. But uh so maybe real humans should bring it back more. But anyway, uh that is a great final thought, Dillan. So thank you so much for uh being here today. Thank you for your time and your thoughts uh and sharing your expertise with everyone. Um please come back. I'd love to have you back, and uh let's continue to track the progress uh across all of the the new digital frontier um you know as the as the spring and summer uh and the rest of the selling season kind of go by.

Dillan Hart 1:02:40

Yes, sir. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it and I enjoyed it.

Cord 1:02:45

Absolutely glad to have you. Thank you for listening, and I will see you next time on another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast.

Final Sponsor Thanks And Wrap

OUTRO 1:02:54

Thanks

INTRO 1:02:55

again, Shed Pro, for being the Shed Geek studio sponsor. If you need any more information about ShedPro or about Shed Geek, just reach out. You can reach us by email at info@ ShedGeek.com. Or just go to our website, www.shedgeek.com, and submit a form with your information, and we'll be in contact right away. Thank you again for listening, as always, to today's episode of the Shedge Podcast. Thank you and have a blessed day.