The Secret RTO Strategy Is Answering The Phone

Rent-to-own sheds can look like a numbers game from the outside, but the real differentiator is often painfully unglamorous: answering the phone, keeping your word, and treating people like humans. I’m joined by Titus Hofer and Josh Hosey to talk through the real story behind building an RTO operation in the shed industry, starting with Titus’s pivot after the 2008 housing crash and the moment he realized he was turning away “how much per month?” customers who simply needed a workable path to ownership.

We get into what changed as shed financing options exploded and competition tightened. Dealer premiums, kickbacks, rising interest rates, and pressure on yield are all part of today’s rent-to-own landscape, but we keep coming back to the foundation: solid systems and processes for both technology and relationships. We also talk about the tension of scaling fast, the risk of letting calls roll to voicemail, and why being steady with dealers can matter more than chasing the loudest offer.

A big turning point is how they solve bandwidth by partnering with Rosewood Management so customers can reach a live person and issues get handled by a team with clear roles. Along the way, Titus and Josh share the moments that stick with them most: second chances, hard conversations, and the joy of hearing someone make the final payment and truly own their portable storage building.

If you work with sheds, portable buildings, or rent-to-own programs, subscribe and share this one with a dealer who cares about doing it the right way. After you listen, leave a review and tell me this: what’s the one thing that should never be sacrificed when the market gets competitive?

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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

Cardinal Leasing
IFAB
Identigrow
Solar Blaster

Transcript

Sponsor Message From ShedPro

Shannon 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. Here's a message from our studio sponsor. Let's be real. Running a shed business today isn't just about building great sheds. The industry is changing fast. We're all feeling the squeeze, competing for fewer buyers, while expectations keep climbing. And yet I hear from many of you that you are still juggling spreadsheets, clunky software, or disconnected systems. You're spending more time managing chaos than actually growing your business. That's why I want to talk to you about our studio sponsor, ShedPro. If you're not already using them, I really think you should check them out. ShedPro combines your 3D configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries, and dealer tools all in one platform. They even integrate cleanly into our Shed Geek marketing solutions. From website leads, to final delivery, you can quote, contract, collect payment, and schedule delivery in one clean workflow. No more double entries, no more back and forth chaos. Quoting is faster, orders are cleaner. And instead of chasing down paperwork, you're actually running your business. And if you mention ShedGeek, you'll get 25% off all setup fees. Check it out at shedpro.co/ShedGeek. Thank you, ShedPro, for being our studio sponsor and honestly for building something that helps the industry.

Welcome And Ways To Connect

Shannon 1:31

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast. Thank you for listening today. Um we are here uh home based today, but talking to some good friends, uh some uh some uh Pennsylvania fellas here with me today, but I don't know, is it always going to be Pennsylvania? Joined by my friends here with uh Shed Geek Rentals, and I'll let them introduce ourselves uh here in just a moment. But before we get rolling, a few ways to stay plugged in with us. As you guys know, our phone number over here to just contact us directly is 618-309-3648. You can always email us at info@ shedgeek.com. Go fill out a lead form on the website, uh www.shedgeek.com. No one says www anymore, Josh. What am I doing? Uh and then uh Facebook, uh give us a like, give us a follow on YouTube and on Facebook. Uh uh like for you to be part of our journey uh as well. And check out the Shed Sales Professionals groups. Uh, there's always a lot of good content in there that we like to uh help administrate. And even for those in the plane community, uh our call in line 330-997-3055. For those of you that like to listen, we do thank you for listening. Hot item of the day. You know, the only hot item of the day today, guys, is the weather because it's like 80 degrees here. And yesterday morning we had rain, we had snow, and then we had sunshine and 60 in the afternoon. So go figure. We well, I don't know. It's pretty hot. I know that.

Josh Hosey 3:08

It was like it was like 14 yesterday morning. Today it's about maybe uh I guess the snow's melting. We're around 45 now, so maybe your 80s coming this way.

Meet Titus Hofer And Josh

Shannon 3:18

Well, it's 73, so it's close enough. Uh anyway. So, I'll tell you what, let's start with Titus. Do you want to introduce yourself? I I'm not usually nervous, uh, but I'm a little nervous about this episode, and I don't I don't know why, other than to say I appreciate uh this man so much. Um I think he is a genuine one of the most genuine people I've ever met. Um and I'm super excited to have been able to have the chance to partner with him. So welcome, Titus. Tell us who you are and what you do.

Titus Hofer 3:50

Well, thanks for your kind words, Shannon. And uh let me uh set you at ease by saying um just an average uh average uh sinner saved by grace, just like you are. So please don't be nervous. Amen. Amen. Yeah, I've enjoyed so much meeting you as well. And uh my name is Titus Hofer. I live in Clarion County, Pennsylvania. Although, as you alluded to, we do have uh plans in the works to move to Virginia this summer. We have a severely autistic son who resides at Faith Mission Home in Free Union, Virginia, and uh we're looking forward to an opportunity to live nearer to him, God willing. So uh we may uh switch from Pennsylvania to Virginia this year. Looks like a big year with a lot of changes, but uh God is good and he always leads us. So, uh glad to be on the podcast with my friend Shannon and my faithful sidekick, Josh, today.

Shannon 4:47

And Josh, for those who don't know you, the kindest man in the shed industry. Introduce yourself.

Josh Hosey 4:54

Well, that's I don't know about the kindest man, but I like that. I like the sound of the show.

Titus Hofer 4:58

Yeah, you deserve that, Josh. Just own it.

Josh Hosey 5:01

I'll tell my wife that's what they call me in the industry, so she should never be upset at me. I must be the kindest man out there. Yeah, but yeah, well, I think it's been uh maybe about a year since uh I was on a podcast with you, Shannon. We had one uh we met there in Cincinnati area. Um so I don't know how much of my backstory to say because I think I might have given some of it then. Um but, anyways, yeah, so I've worked with Titus for about I'd say 12 or 13 years now. I'm losing track, but we're right there. So right out of college, um I graduated to university with a degree in accounting, and I'd started working part-time with Titus while I was finishing my degree, and then he made me a good offer to keep me on, and um, so I have been just uh just knee deep in the shed industry ever since. So um, but uh anyway, so yeah, but it's great to be back on the podcast with you, Shandon. I always love uh listening to your podcasts and chatting with you. So yeah, I'm looking forward to our conversation today.

Shannon 6:05

Well, you guys have been great, and uh, you know, uh the origin story really, I guess uh Titus, it starts it starts with you, or at least you're the best explainer here of that. And uh maybe how did you find the shed industry? How did you find rent to own? What has that journey really looked like?

Titus Hofer 6:25

Yeah, that happened right when I was hired to be a manager of a shed lot in Du Bois, Pennsylvania. It's a small city, about 45 minutes from my home. I'd been in the real estate industry. I was with the partnership, uh, buying foreclosures, doing short sales with banks, and then flipping properties for a quick profit. And we really did well with that until the infamous 2008 housing bubble broke. Things just changed overnight, if you're familiar with that at all. And suddenly our business model was not working anymore. So I was looking for something else to get into. And uh a gentleman approached me and said he's opening a shed lot in Dubois, and would I be interested in managing it? So I accepted that job. And I must say, for the first six months, I was turning aside a certain type of customer, and it was that customer who would come into my shop and say, you know, I really love that red and white barn out there. How much a month for that? And I would say, I don't offer anything by the month. I take check, cash, or a credit card, or we can set you up with a conventional loan with Northwest Bank down the road, and you know, invariably they say, Oh, we don't have the credit for that. So, I was turning those customers away for the first six months. Then a friend of mine from Washington State he said, You should not be losing those sales. There's this new thing that you know is sweeping the shed industry, and it's called rent-to-own. And it does allow customers to buy their shed by the month. So, I looked into it and uh we borrowed a bit of money, and uh in 2010, which we're getting really close to 16 years ago, that we wrote our very first rent-to-own contract. And the funny thing about that first rent-to-own contract, it did turn out to be a repo. It came back after only about three months out there. Uh so yeah, if we'd if we'd have gone by our first experience, we'd have thought maybe this doesn't work. But uh we continued on. At first I was just doing it for my own customers, but that was just when you know it was sweeping the industry and my phone started to ring. It was other dealers saying, Would you, I hear you do rent owned, would you, would you uh service our customers as well? And so that that started to grow alongside the retail location that I was in. And so, I did both for about 10 years, and things got really heavy, a combination of things, the growth that we were experiencing. I also mentioned my son. Um, he was he was he took a lot of energy for my wife and I to keep up with, and I needed to start to work from home, and I really needed some help. And so one of the uh first answers to prayer we had was we started praying for a good hand to help with office work. And uh I met this lady in Walmart that I was vaguely familiar with, and I asked her, Is there anybody from your community or church that might have interest? And lo and behold, her son Josh called me a few days later and said, I'm putting myself through college. I would be interested in taking a look at the job. Well, fast forward, we're still together. Josh has been a huge answer to prayer, real asset to uh the community, real faithful uh uh helper in this in this business ever since.

Shannon 9:50

So, Josh, what was that like coming on, you know, while you're still in college learning about this? I mean, like, look, not only competitive, you know, like environment that it's really turned into, and you've watched it over the 10 or 12 years that you've been here, but like what was that first year, those first few months experience? Like, what am I doing? What did I get myself into?

Josh Hosey 10:11

Um, yeah, it's interesting. Uh actually, uh to be honest with you, when I first started there, you know, I was in school for accounting and had been looking at QuickBooks and spreadsheets and everything in school. And so when I started there, it was it was more just numbers. Um, and I was busy in classes and stuff. So, I wasn't I at first I wasn't answering the phones or talking to customers, or um, you know, Titus was the contact for the dealers, he's the one that set them all up, so he talked to the dealers, so I'd never talked with them. So, it's weird, but for quite a few years, I worked right in the heart of the industry, but I actually I wasn't I wasn't in the industry. I was just looking at um you know profit and loss statements and balance sheets and all of that stuff. Um so yeah, I didn't know how much there was there, how much of the onion that I could keep peeling back and finding all the layers of the shed industry and what it is. Um but yeah, so that was that was my first experience. So, I just whenever I called him, I was so happy because I thought, wow, this is like uh basically almost like an internship. I'm getting some experience under my belt working with QuickBooks, stuff like that, something I can boost my resume with, and it was a nice part-time job to get through school. Um, so that was kind of yeah, where that all started. And then um, yeah, he gave me that good offer to stay on after I graduated, and then I, you know, really got into the full-time uh swing of things and then started to get more familiar with the industry and figuring it out. Um and yeah, it's been interesting. It cracks me up just to listen to the how quickly things can change. Whenever he was talking about in 2010 and he didn't have any rent-town option at all, and then had dealers just calling, like, could you please offer this for me? I just want a rent-to-own company, you know? So now we have we have like 50 of them just sitting there waiting to pounce on a dealer if they need rent to own, or it's just funny how things have changed dramatically. But yeah, and I've been with Titus so long. I have there was one dealer, and every time I talk to him, we went and met him together and introduced ourselves. But every time I talk to him, he'll be like, he'll reference that he just talked to Titus, but instead of saying that, he's like, Yeah, I just talked to your dad and da-da-da-da-da. And I just at this point, I just let it go. So they think we're father and son, and I just have embraced it and roll with us.

Shannon 12:45

Sure. You just gotta remember to say, hey, dad, you know, every now and then or whatever. I love it. Uh Titus, a lot's just changed really since that time, whenever you first started doing that. Uh what's some of the biggest changes from like that first year to what you're seeing now?

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Titus Hofer 14:49

Right. Well that, like Josh mentioned, uh, you know, we went from I mean, making cold calls or sending, you know, somebody on the road to, you know, try to gain business. It was just unheard of, you know, my phone would ring and you know, there was there was a new client saying, would you would you be interested in doing this? That's one of the major changes that I see in the in the rent-on uh arena. And that sort of leads into a second uh as I think about the steps in our business over the last six 16 years, Josh coming on was uh was a major step forward. And then uh our uh collaborating with the Shed Geek uh was another real step forward, and it came at a time that we really were looking for uh something like that because we had uh we lost a major client due to a merger that happened in the state of New York. Uh we lost a major client, and you know, for the first time in many years, uh we saw our number of contracts actually start to shrink. And like we just mentioned, times of change, just you just can't, you know, gain a lot and do business at the snap of the finger. And that's when uh we got in touch with uh actually you got in touch with us, isn't that the way it was, uh Shannon? It is.

Shannon 16:18

I had yeah, I had I had a lot of uh darts out there, you know. Like I had I had thrown out a lot of darts from meeting a lot of people through travel, through communication, and yeah, uh one of those turned into a you know a continued steady conversation that even landed that opportunity to work with you guys. So, it's as important for me to mimic what you're saying there is like it was very detrimental to me at the time, too. It was it was a very good time. It was almost kind of like it was just meant to work together because it worked together so easily, and I think it satisfied both of both of our needs at the time. At least that's the way I feel, and even today.

Titus Hofer 17:00

I agree. And the way I think about it, we had years of rent-to-own experience to offer. And of course, you had a most recognizable brand in the industry to offer, and uh bringing those two together uh just was a real benefit to our company. Um, through your connections, we gained a lot of business, so much so that we were almost overwhelmed and had to tell you, Shannon, back off. You're bringing us too much business here. And uh so that's a good problem to have.

Shannon 17:34

It's still a problem, though, isn't it? You know, we've if we've ever learned anything, it can still be a problem.

Josh Hosey 17:40

It really can. You can you can outpace yourself and it's great to scale. Um, but if you go a little bit too fast, then you can start um missing things because you know everybody's overworked, and so then you're just missing big things that can be a problem, um, or you're not taking care of your customers because you just have too many, uh, or you're not taking care of the dealers and they have questions and uh you're busy with other things, and so you can't take care of things in a timely manner. And so that that balance of trying to grow and scale, but doing it adequately so you are competent in each of those phases is uh that's a difficult, uh that's a difficult task. It really is. And that's where we were like, okay, yeah, like Titus said, like, okay, Shannon, we might need to take the foot off the gases to make sure that we've got things covered and make sure we're doing best by everybody that we brought on.

Shannon 18:35

We always wonder, like, um um, you know, when does the I always say when does the luck run out? I remember uh another RTO uh friend of mine who said whenever I was selling it back when you're talking about Titus, everywhere I'd go, people would just sign up. And I thought I was an excellent sales guy and hardly had to do any work. And it wasn't until it got competitive that it exposed me as a salesperson to be like, oh, I'm not very good in the competitive arena. All of a sudden now I've just been used to like the phone call, the phone's ringing and it's simple and there's not a lot of work because the because the service was needed. And I think that's what it boiled down to. There was a time where it was just looked upon as if I can't sell these for cash, or people's not willing to go to the bank, or there's not a major finance option out there, there needs to be a way that people can pay on these monthly, and that turned into rent to own, which is this whole other probably deserves its whole other segment of just talking about rental versus ownership. And but it was still seen as the public as an opportunity to get into a monthly option to own this thing. And I think it's very popular, and I think it remains popular today, even, which is probably why we had so much competition, you know, pop up over those 16 years that you've been in it. But Josh, I wrote something down here with my little handy-dandy notebook. I put in systems and processes. This is my little this is my little CRM right here, guys, on the podcast. This is what I do. Um uh I said, you know, systems and processes, people and tech, because I think nowadays we almost have to have two of those things. We have to have a system and process for the tech stack that exists out there and rent to own and trying to get people through a point of sale and get stuff into where we're managing contracts. But then there's another side that sometimes gets missed, and that's the systems and processes of dealing with people. Because a hundred percent of businesses are run by people. And that one can be more cumbersome because it's not a one size fits all like a tech program. Uh it's not automated because people aren't automated because they're different, and you have to treat them um, I won't say treat them different, but you have to uh have your approach to be mindful of people have different ways, different cultures, different religions, different it's just a lot out there. And when everyone's competing for business, no one usually wants to say, let me deal with the hard to work with guy. The hard to rent to own hard to work with rent to own company. You know, and I think Titus and Josh, I kudos to you guys because there's no way you could be in a room with you guys and not like you. I mean, like, look, I've got where I want to have words with the people who do, because I want to know. These they're just good people. And uh and so the relationship was really easy. And honestly, when we think about the systems and processes of people, Josh, I just feel like we've done really well. Like me and you just speaking to a customer. Do you do you do you feel that? Do you feel like that sets us apart? Like look. Look, I'm not gonna get on here and say we're the only nice rent-down people. Just to feel there's a lot of good ones out there. I feel like that's been a strength for us.

Josh Hosey 22:10

I think we've done all right with it. I think that um we both you know we do okay with small talk, and sometimes that can go a long way with customers, and you can turn a cranky one into a nice one if you can find some way to connect somehow. And that and that can be really challenging just over the phone. Um, but sometimes you can still hit it. And uh there was one that I detested getting phone calls from him, and it was not fun. And as time went on, like the one time you know, he said that he worked nights and I woke him up and he was sleeping, and I just he was he was not happy. But by the time it was done, I mean he'd called his like chat and then he made his final payment, and he was like, you know what? I still miss my call from time to time. I think I was gonna miss chatting with you. And so, you know, if you can find ways to connect with people, um, yeah, that's huge. That that's the major part of it. And I mean, if you can connect with them on that personal level, that it's not gonna solve every person that's delinquent, but it does help if they feel a connection, they might want to try to prioritize you paying you over something else. So, yeah, that's it's very important.

Shannon 23:21

Titus, I'm sure you've watched Josh blossom and grow in those 16 years from his time in college to being, you know, uh a good employee and really just uh good business decorum. Uh so we've got your initial launch in 2010. Josh comes on board, your partner was Shed Geek, and thank you for the kind words. I do appreciate that. I would I would say it's been as equally beneficial for me as it has been for you guys. It's meant the world to me. And uh, and then uh so where does the company then go from there as you begin to see growth and like uh you just you're just over 16 years, you begin to like expand and change and build processes. And uh so what's the next step of the ladder?

Rosewood Management Solves Bandwidth

Titus Hofer 24:05

Right. One thing I might mention that uh really gives us the opportunity to expand once again. Like we mentioned that we told you slow down, you're bringing us business faster than you know, we don't have the bandwidth to handle it. And we want to do a good job. We don't want these customers to, you know, have all their calls go to voicemail, which that was one of the things that was happening too much. They, you know, especially on a busy day, their call is going to a voicemail, and that has its whole uh set of problems. Because by the time you're ready to call those back, you know, they're on to something else, and it's just not good. So, enter uh Rosewood management. Nathan Miller is a longtime friend of mine, and we used to meet at the uh at the rent-to-owned conventions and compare notes sometimes, and uh Nathan has done an amazing job of building a rent-to-owned company, but then also got into management. And we partnered with Rosewood the beginning of 2026, and that just answers a lot of those uh bandwidth problems that we were facing. Their goal, and I think they meet it most of the time, is that no one ever uh is sent to voicemail, that they get a live uh person on the phone when they when they call in. And so Nathan has built out an entire team and uh they are helping us out with uh customer service, and I think that really uh helps us to be poised to expand once again because we now you know instead of just a few of us uh handling all these customers, uh you know, we have a you know whole team that's been built out for that express uh purpose. They have their you know their specialties, person that might handle uh bankruptcy issues, uh person that specializes in in working with uh customer service, taking payments, you name it. You know, they have a person that's handling that. And so yeah, it's been it's been a blessing, another answer to prayer in our journey. And it also I might mention it gives Josh and I some freedom. You know, you've heard that expression, working on the business instead of in the business. I think uh we're really seeing that opportunity. And I welcome that. Uh it will give Josh freedom to work with the dealers. I mean, many of them, like he like he already alluded to, are family friends. Your dealers become family friends, but this will give him even more opportunity to you know to go down and you know, visit them on site. If anything we've learned is that dealers like their rent-to-owned company to show up, show some interest in their in their business and in their lives. And I feel like this will give Josh opportunity to do that, and uh he is he's very good at that. And uh looking forward to him having more freedom to you know have that personal touch with the dealers. And myself, uh Rosewood uh gives me a bit more freedom as well. I enjoy business very, very much, but uh there's something I'm way more passionate about, and that is sharing the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. I uh am a pastor and I turn down opportunities to share in evangelistic meetings because of business and family constraints. Uh this this uh new chapter will give me the freedom to be able to accept uh more evangelistic meetings and so on, and that's something that I feel like uh God wants me to do, and I uh look forward to that as well.

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Competing With Integrity In RTO

Shannon 29:11

I think that's awesome. That's why I always enjoy our conversations. And I know a lot of times you'll be on some of these trips and uh doing uh revivals and just different things that uh I can tell that you're genuinely passionate about. You know, there's a lot of people in in the industry who have kind of shared that, how that's a little bit more of their actual desire. And the business really just allows them to fulfill those needs. And, you know, it allows you success in business allows you to do a lot of things, including be more charitable uh with your money, but you could be more charitable with your time and your finances and uh and uh and your you know just your expertise, your help that you can provide people. So, I think that's great. Um, I mean, uh yeah, that that's why I was always so confident to work with you guys, is because the audio matched the video, right? Like, you know, you guys are who you say you are. And I'll tell you what, that's worked well for us in this uh, you know, uh this process of you know falling under the shed geek umbrella or the shed geek brand to sort of like this co-adventure. Um and I just don't get phone calls, right? Like I don't get phone calls saying Joshua's rude or anything like like it's just not gonna happen because you know he's only ever been rude one time, you know. Uh and he didn't and he didn't like it when he did, you know? So, it's he's just that guy, but you are too, Titus. So, as you answer the phones, and you know, I think I told you guys before, you know, I worked in a you know, an extreme customer service situation. And once you work in a in a in a 10 out of 10 for customer service, and you get into something like the carport industry or the shed industry where the subpar service just irks at you. Like and then I think to myself, where have I fallen short? When have I not called someone back, not followed up with someone, not texted them because it's just so busy. There's so much coming in that you want to spend the time with everybody. But when you're not stressed like that, there's just no reason not to do the best job that you can do. And you guys do. I've never heard, you know, uh the phone just ringing every day saying, hey, these guys, you know, are struggling to do this or do that. And honestly, any calls that end up on my desk, Josh, me and you handle within the hour, it seems like. And I I'm just telling you, professional company, great guys. And uh, and uh I love watching the journey from starting up to Josh coming on board and our collaboration and now where you're at, and who knows what the future is gonna hold. But we're open for business, like we're not trying to be overselves by any means, but you know, um been in the space for a long time. Feel like we have a lot of you know, uh good things going for us and good things going for people who want to partner with us. So I think that's who we want to be. Titus, it's competitive now, brother. It is just so competitive out there. I mean, go to the NSRA and every one of those tables were full of RTO people, and you're like, hey, these guys are out here doing the same thing we do. So, what sets us apart? Which I've always believed that being set apart does earn you some business because you want a unique value proposition or whatever. You want something. Um what's your thoughts? I don't want to get too deep in the in the weeds or anything, but what are your thoughts on just the current state? You know, like it's competitive, but rent town seems to still be doing really, really good. You got some finance kind of like creeping in, you know, traditional finance, federally regulated finance. But um, I still feel like it's very healthy.

Titus Hofer 33:06

I agree. Yeah, I think there's a future in in rent to own for a long time. And yeah, even though it wasn't as easy to land new business as it as it was when we started, I still feel like at the end of the day, if you are if you are respectful both to your dealers and to your customers, treat them with dignity. And uh there's still uh business out there, and I believe the industry will continue to flourish. You do have to be more careful, you know. Now there's dealers have come to expect a kickback, uh, whether you call that a dealer premium or whatever, that that's part of it that that makes uh you know changes the bottom line a bit. And you know, as if that becomes the primary uh reason driving uh new business, it's just something you have to look at. You have to you have to offer it if all your competition is. And uh I don't know where that's headed for sure. It seems like that that's gotta hit a ceiling sometime. But uh yeah, I think honesty and hard work and treating others as you would want to be treated is still important in spite of the changes that have come.

Shannon 34:24

I think even more important than those dealer premiums, Josh, is you know, because uh the there's no race, there's a race to the bottom on those premiums, as Titus alluded to, with blowing out your margins at some point, um, depending on where you're you know where you have access to money or what it what money costs, which is kind of a funny statement in its own right, right? What does money cost? And if you want to know, ask us. Very key. It costs a lot. Uh uh and but you know, like decency, honesty, and a good old-fashioned, you know, approach still works, Josh, uh, and does earn business. And we've made a we've made a good name off of that, you know, I think at SGR.

Josh Hosey 35:12

I think it was you know, we talked about the success with going to Shed Geek Rentals, but I think that uh you know our partnership with you, it was so vital to uh um to help fuel our growth because of when we came into the industry was not that competitive. And Titus, I remember so many times you would say, because we were just growing year over year, we were growing. And Titus was like, I haven't even tried to find business. They just call me. And he's like, Yeah, used to you used to always say that. Like, I'm not even looking for it, and we just keep growing. So we didn't we didn't even like participate much at first in like the NSRA, or we weren't, you know, the expos, or we were we were in the industry, but we just weren't like we weren't totally submersed in it. And the because of that, because we didn't have to search for business, then as he said about a merger happened and we lost a big chunk of our contracts. So, I don't know if you'd say we were complacent, but we were just growing without even trying, so we weren't having to try. Then we lost that huge chunk, and then we start seeing our contracts fall off. And you know, we show up at the expo, and it's just like people are like, Who are you guys? We've never heard of you. Like, you know, it's stay at home storage, where have you been? You know, and um, so I think that that was so huge with our partnership with you because your name was so relevant in the industry and it gave us a relevancy uh because you had a platform, and so yeah, I'm so glad that we came together because I that definitely played a part in in giving us opportunity to sit down and have conversations with people and then um win them over just by treating them right and fairly as they should be treated.

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Titus Hofer 38:42

I don't know if you remember this, but it uh it made me realize the recognition you had in the industry. I think it was maybe the first or second time that we did go to the to the shed expo. And Josh is right. We were just we were both wide open in the business and growing. We didn't have time to go to Nashville or Richmond or somewhere for uh for a Shed Expo or uh or the uh rent-to-own convention. We just we just didn't do that in those days. We were busy working and growing. But uh yeah, that that part has been very enjoyable. Um, you know, getting more involved meeting others in the industry. But where I was going with this, uh, after we teamed up, uh we were together at a table and this this uh Mennonite boy came walking up to you. I think he was maybe 11 or 12 years old, and he's like, Shannon, thanks for doing the podcast. I listen to it every week, and I was like, wow, this this fella has some recognition in this industry. I think we picked a good person to team up with.

Shannon 39:41

Uh, it blesses my heart to hear that. And for that 11-year-old, I sure do hope that he's enjoying listening today. We try to always take that serious. We make sure to do our best to watch language and watch like, you know, sort of like the direction we're trying to go, and even the guests we have on, everyone's welcome. We just we want to keep it like we know that the industry can be difficult because it's competition. And when you compete, you know, it brings about emotion, it brings about a lot of things. Um, and I think it also makes us better, but also think that so many of us have collaborated well and really genuinely wanted to see the best for others. Um, you know, uh um, and I think that you guys fit that narrative to a T. Um, and gosh, you guys have just been so encouraging to me behind the scenes. And uh uh, you know, you're going to face difficulty, you're gonna face um, see, I feel like persecution's way too strong here, Titus. But I think you're just gonna face difficulty, right? Like I think you're just going to in any business or any level of industry, and I think those are just moments to grow. I don't know about you guys, and maybe this is not appropriate, but I always feel like when I, you know, listen to a testimony, I'm and I'm awed at what God can do. The deeper the testimony goes, almost the more lost, you know, we are. It almost feels more powerful because you say, well, only God could do that. Only God could bring you out of that. And so, so, you know, we welcome challenges, although they're still difficult and uh and hard to deal with. But you welcome them because the testimony I like listening to is never the guy who says, Oh, I went through life and I never had any problems, everything was good and uh really never faced anything hard. It's those peaks and valleys and you know what I mean? Those are the ones that I'm enthralled in because it's like, oh, how'd you get out of that? What'd you do then? And you're like, well, you know, God, God saved me. He saved my life, he saved my, you know, he changed my wants. He and so like we welcome the difficulty, but we lean on the Lord, I think, for you know, the next, the next opportunity. And that's something mean you've shared a lot in, Titus, you know, and we're not perfect. I think we should throw that out there. I think that's a I think that's a known fact for all of us. But I think generally speaking, you know, we fail too. We're not perfect. I've you know that's been our approach to our customers the whole time, but we will do our best to make it right. And I think we've I think we've seen that. I think people have experienced that as well, too.

Titus Hofer 42:23

Right. I agree, Shannon. The you know, difficulties in life, you know, we don't welcome them, but they do have their refining effect on us and end up us making us better. You know, Job said that thing in the middle of everything he was facing there, losing so much and such agony from his from his uh his uh satanic uh attack. Uh he said God still knows the way that he takes, and when he hath tried me, I shall come forth as gold. And you know, d difficulties in life, and uh, you know, misunderstandings, relationship issues, all the things we have to work through. If we can if we can handle them with grace, they actually make us more Christ-like.

Shannon 43:09

Yeah, I love it. So, I always enjoy talking to you guys. Um, where do you think it's going, Josh? Where's I mean, you're gonna be out here, you're gonna be seeing some of the dealers, you know. We're opening the faucet a little bit for those who welcome a call. We'd love to set up a call with you, obviously. I've been so blessed to, you know, and these guys have even been so decent as to having conversations about, you know, we've had other rent-owned companies even advertising on the podcast, you know, and we've had those open and honest discussions about like how that works and just these different things. Uh uh uh, you know, and I'm thankful for that. Like you guys have truly been um you've just been a 10 out of 10. You've just been great to work with, you know. And I hope that's a long term, you know, situation, but if it's if it's not The one thing I know about you guys is like even uh uh you know even if it were to end, it would end with the best respect, the kindness of situations. And I love that because that's the way I hope that all things can end. Uh but Josh, we're I'm just curious, uh, where do you think it's going, man? Like it's really competitive now. You've been to the last couple NSRAs, you've been in it 12 years. Like we're always having this discussion about what's the next thing to come. And uh I don't know. What are your thoughts on it?

Josh Hosey 44:31

I don't I don't know. I don't know where it's gonna go. Um because we we've been talking for a couple years about how there's gotta be something that's gonna change. You know, we've we mentioned um the referrals or kickbacks, premiums, we talked about that earlier, and um, you know, it definitely was it hit yields whenever interest rates were going up, and there's then there's referrals there, and so you know, you have expensive money you're paying for, and you have the kickback, and then if you're not changing your divisors, then you're just you know squeezing your yield. And so, yeah, I don't know. I don't know where it's gonna go. I don't know. I think there's been a little bit of tweaking with divisors, it's they've been pretty standard across the board a long time. Um, actually kind of shocking to me that they've stayed as static as they have. Um, you know, because you see banks and uh other lenders, their rates do come and go here and there, and we just were sticking right in the trench and staying right there. So, I don't know if uh kickbacks still remain a thing to encourage dealer loyalty, if that still is a thing for years to come. I don't know. Maybe there'll be a change in in divisors to try to get more yield out of it. I'm not real sure, but I keep sitting on the sideline thinking something's going to dramatically change and then in the next two or three years, and we just keep rolling almost the way that we were the year before. So, I don't know if much major change or uh shakeup is coming or not.

Shannon 46:04

Yeah, it's I could I'm sorry, Sharon. No, go ahead. I was gonna ask you your thoughts. So go ahead.

Titus Hofer 46:10

I was gonna add to what Josh was saying. I as far as dealer premiums, it I think they're I think they're probably here to stay and where that'll go exactly. But think about it. If a dealer isn't treated like a friend, if a dealer isn't treated like family, uh he's not necessarily going to go for the highest premium possible if he doesn't feel cared about. Uh I've heard dealers say that you know the kickback is not the most important thing. It is a thing, but not the most important thing. Uh you know, honesty and being easy to work with means more to us than necessarily the highest premium. And yeah, until that changes, I think there's uh there's uh business to be found.

Josh Hosey 46:56

What is here? When we agree to something um with a specific dealer, we try to at least uh keep it for intact for at least a year or whatever, like an agreement with them if we're gonna pay them this much of a premium or whatever it is, if we're gonna accept this, you know, this type of structure or whatever that is. We try to stick with that for about a year, and then you know, it that gives us time to sit back and analyze it and be like, is this working or is this not working? And then we might change things, but I know that no one, I don't think there's any person out there really that likes change. At least I know I don't like change. And so um, you know, I think that's one of the things we've tried to be is this steady and not changing things on dealers or manufacturers a lot. And that's something that we could do. We could come to them and be like, hey, you know, we see that um you know the this is this isn't working here, we're gonna tweak this, we're gonna tweak that. Um, and then they have to communicate that to other dealers. It's just that's a lot. And so, I think we've really tried to be um steady and long-suffering in that fact. And if we've agreed to something, um, you know, maybe it hurts for the while, but then we'll just you know wait until the end of the year or something and then say, hey, we're gonna have to change this. It's up to you guys if you want to go elsewhere or whatever. But you know, and so I think that helps because you know, like Titus said, it's not just to manufacturers and dealers, it's not just like premiums, not the only thing they look for. But um, you know, that's one of the things that we definitely try to do is just be steady for a while and not shake our dealers around and change things up on them all the time.

Shannon 48:36

Titus, the um uh um just the idea of being in the industry, it's part of your work. And so many times a man's defined by his work. Uh so I didn't prompt you. I didn't get I didn't give you time to think about this. So, Josh, maybe think about it uh as well, too. In your 12 and your 16 years of experience, I'm curious if either one of you have a f uh favorite moment that comes to mind that's maybe fulfilling or just glad that you're in this industry or glad you chose this business because there's just a really good warm story that goes along with it. Anything that comes to mind?

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Titus Hofer 51:10

I do. There's a few, but one that does come to mind is this business can actually be an opportunity to um hear stories of redemption. I had a young man who had actually stolen a building from us. Um him and his friends were able to transport it and hide it. Uh I think that was in the state of Massachusetts, if I remember right. And uh he was discovered by a by a family member and uh ordered to call in and confess. And I remember that call so clearly. He's like, I am so sorry, you know, I stole a shed and I'm young, and I hope you'll give me another chance. And I said, Absolutely. I said, I believe in second chances because you know, where would any of us be without another opportunity? And uh that that was a moment where uh you could extend forgiveness and hopefully make a difference in someone's life that would point them toward God. That was that that's a highlight that immediately uh popped into my mind. And I'll quickly add one thing to what Josh said about dealers uh you know not being constantly forced to change. I think some of our most loyal dealers have been with us pretty much from day one, and just really I think they'll be with us um in indefinitely, um, are the ones that we're used to doing it a certain way, and we didn't force them to change. We didn't say, look, you must go digital, even though you're used to writing your contracts by hand. And I think Josh probably knows which dealers I'm talking about that have just been so loyal just because they were given that opportunity to do things the way they were used to doing it, and it's been a blessing for both of us.

Shannon 52:54

You have a favorite moment in all of this time, Josh, that sticks out to you outside of meeting me. That's by far the highlight. I had to throw it in there, you know. Uh you guys hadn't blown my head up enough yet. I needed a little more.

Josh Hosey 53:12

When you get to uh connect weekly with uh a personality such as yourself, it's truly a wonder.

Shannon 53:20

It's gotta be terrible. My wife has to do this daily.

Josh Hosey 53:26

What a cross she has to bear. Um no. Um Yeah, I have a lot of good moments. I mean, yeah, I've met a lot of good people, and I I've enjoyed, I definitely have enjoyed meeting you and like putting all the laughing aside. Yes, that's it's been a fantastic relationship, and I've enjoyed the relationships. But I think um just kind of to in a way what Titus was talking about, but some of my favorite moments would have been uh with talking with customers when they were paying it off, uh paying off the building. And um, sorry, Heartland, I think they probably have a trademark on this, but I love it because it says Heartland, it says facilitating ownership. And I just I love that I love that term for rent to own because I think that that's what rent to own does is it does help facilitate ownership um to people that just they might not be able to get a shed any other way. They probably wouldn't be able to save up the money. Um, or I mean if you know we always use the self-storage example, but self-storage, they'll never own it. Um, this is something they can have in their backyard, pick up the property value, and it can be theirs. So, while you know divisors and rental expense might be so expensive, I think there's something there for facilitating ownership to these people. And sometimes talking with them when they pay it off, just they're so overjoyed, they almost can't believe they paid something off. Um, it's pretty neat. And we do have in our contract that nobody is to live in in the unit. So, uh this probably shouldn't be one of my examples of favorite moments because they were uh living in breach of the contract. But anyways, whenever they got to the end, they made a payment and they kind of struggle to make payments, but they made the final payment and they were so happy, and then they told me that they went down the details of how this has been their house and they've done this and this with the loft and on and on they went about their house. And then and they were so happy because they paid it off. And I was like, Well, we get off the phone and said, Well, congratulations, you just paid off your mortgage. And um, they were just they were thrilled. So, it is kind of neat to um to hear the joy and in people's voices when you can just tell they're they might not be used to paying stuff off as much, and they actually feel so good about it that they own it now.

Shoutouts, Community, And Running Talk

Shannon 55:44

Well, the good news is we're the only one who that's ever happened to. Uh no other rent-owned companies have ever had anybody living in a shed. So guys better watch out because it might happen to you too. It's uh it's an interesting, you know, it is an interesting business, you know, and uh it really has been a blessing to many. Um, I know it's been a it's been a blessing to me to even find my way into that that system through the same thing, Titus, as a sales manager, you know, just trying to sell sheds and thinking about, you know, what does sell sheds? I mean, when people don't have to cash and carry on a higher ticket item like we have, you know, especially with the increasing cost of sheds, you know, the bigger sheds now than you saw 16 years ago, you know, so there's just a lot of things that go into it because that eats into uh uh uh you know a network's money quickly when people are selling a lot of one payment down, 60 month, you know, uh uh $22,000 buildings, you know, it's like wow, that that's you know, that's a different model than selling an eight by ten garden shed for $3,400 like it was when you started, or even less. Uh so things just do change over time, and that's the one thing that remains the same is that everything continues to change. And we just try to adapt, try to go along with it, and try to have a little bit of a foresight to see what's happening. And we don't always get it right, but we don't always get it wrong. And uh, and I think, you know, I think you guys have been, you know, just as just as kind and easy to work with as anyone out there that I've seen. And I'm super happy to be uh partnered with you. And um, you know, I think I thank the Lord for giving us just that opportunity to meet. Any shout-outs you guys want to give to just anyone in the industry along this journey, along this way, don't feel obligated to, but if it's just somebody, I've met so many people, Titus, that have known you through your roots and through your community and stuff like that growing up. And that always amazes me. It's one of my favorite things is when I happen upon someone I knew known for a long time and didn't know they knew you also, uh, you know, or how we were connected or whatever. And that always tickles me to, you know, when they'll share like a childhood story that I can use to hopefully embarrass you one day.

Titus Hofer 58:07

So yeah, well, actually, I don't know if you remember these details, Shannon, but uh that my very first uh meeting with you, uh, I walked up to you because I saw your name and I'm like, I think I have met this person before. And you probably I think I think we've talked about this. You know that you do have another uh Shannon Latham out there somewhere. I think he's a I think he's an author. He has a has a book on Ireland, I believe. And I thought you were him. And I think that was our first uh time we ventured out to the to the Shed Expo. And so, I thought your looks had changed quite a bit, but I walked up to you and said, uh, are you the Shannon Latham I know? Well, I got to know a new Shannon Latham that day, but it was uh it was a it was a very good meeting, and it has certainly been a blessing working together. And uh yeah, there they are good people in the industry. Uh probably some in the industry know that Richard Miller and I uh grew up together. His I think he's been on your podcast a few times as well in the industry. Uh we grew up in the same community in the Ozarks of Missouri. So, we always enjoy uh meeting up from time to time since we ended up in the same industry.

Shannon 59:25

Excellent guy. And yeah, got to know him. Uh uh it's been a while back now. Uh you know, ironically, this is like how God works. I feel like sometimes I sent him a text message this morning uh at a Facebook memory pop-up, or it was a picture with three of us, and Richard was one of them in the picture, and I sent it to him and said, you know, I could almost read it to you. It says, It's interesting the journey we end up on and the people we meet. And I'm thankful to have met you guys through this process as well. Too uh, you know, and the truth is I'm happy to, you know, uh compete with and against those guys, right? Because they're just good people, and there's other people in the industry that I feel the same way about. And then there's some that are harder to compete with, you know, it's just harder to build a relationship with perhaps business model set up differently. But overall, I mean, even anyone I've worked with in the industry uh in in in rentals has always been really good, really decent. They've just been, matter of fact, I would say I've improved personally by being around some of these people. And uh, and rather than looking at that as a including you guys, and rather that being a detriment to say I didn't have it all figured out coming into the relationship, I think that's just a natural thing, is uh uh I want to be in a room with people who I can learn from. Not only learn from uh education-wise, but maybe learn how to approach a situation differently, Titus, by getting someone else's thoughts. They see it from a different way. And uh so then I begin to try to approach that differently. Again, not perfect over here, just to be clear. We're, we're, we're. I like what you said earlier, you know, we're all just sinners saved by grace. So at the end of the day, that's you know, that's who we are, and we're thankful to have that sovereign God to give us that uh salvation. Um final thoughts, just anything you want to share, any questions, any anything embarrassing that you want to bring to the table for me. I don't know that I've done too much to embarrass myself in front of you guys, but give it time.

Titus Hofer 1:01:28

Uh no, no, Shannon. I cannot say that that you have embarrassed me. It's always been everything that we've done together has always been a blessing and very enjoyable. And yeah, I hope I hope it can continue that uh you know what whatever form our relationship takes in years to come, I trust will be a blessing as we all follow Christ, of course.

Shannon 1:01:55

Josh, any final thoughts? Any just any shout-outs, anything you want to say to the industry?

Josh Hosey 1:02:02

Um I can't think of any embarrassing moments with you. I was trying to I was you guys lost me there for a second because I was thinking in all of the Zoom meetings we've been on, like, was there ever anything?

Shannon 1:02:13

And I was trying to come up with a good story, but I did try to get you in suspenders and a bow tie for the expo. I did try that.

Josh Hosey 1:02:20

I thought that would be I would have done that. I was there, I was I was in on that. I thought it would be dynamic to see all of us flipping around there with suspenders and a bow tie. I mean, it would have caught attention, you know.

Shannon 1:02:35

Get you some glasses with no lenses, maybe.

Josh Hosey 1:02:38

I uh yeah, I was I was ready. We just we couldn't get all parties on board, and then if you have a divided party, it just doesn't work.

Shannon 1:02:45

Uh divided stand, yeah, yeah, yeah. Divided never works. Stands against itself. We gotta have half shed geeks and half non-geeks, you know. Uh it's being great.

Josh Hosey 1:02:57

I'll give a shout out to um to Mr. Craig Felker. We last time at the NSRA we were talking and we hooked up on Strava, a running app, because he always talks about running. So, I've been tracking his progress and I just cannot touch his minute mile. So you said about PC.

Shannon 1:03:14

What does he run? What is he doing?

Josh Hosey 1:03:17

Oh, he cooks. Well, it depends on the day. But oh man, he's uh I don't want to I don't want to say anything wrong. Let me just let me just look real quick to see what is.

Shannon 1:03:29

When I was in Fort Leonardwood, Missouri, Titus, uh 1998, I could run a six-minute mile. So, I thought I was doing amazing at 17 at a six-minute mile. So, if Craig, who's I think older than me, is beating that record, we're gonna edit this right out of the episode.

Josh Hosey 1:03:48

Well, he does uh he does more long distance, and so uh to me it's the it's not the um it's that it's maintaining that that for that long. Like I can maybe do uh eight-minute, 34 second mile pace for uh two, three miles. I could do that, but he just he just cooked around Paducah at 12.5 miles at an 834 pace. So, I mean, just yeah, it's incredible. So anyway, so yeah, yeah. So, he's forcing me to do better with my running game. So, I'm still not catching him.

Open For Business And Closing Prayer

Shannon 1:04:23

But I just want you to know that's the second time Craig Felker's been shouted out on my podcast. So we're either gonna have to have him back on or do some heavy edits. I'm not sure what's going on here, but kudos to Craig, Mr. Energy, Mr. uh uh just uh personality. And yeah, I always uh anytime someone says something about something that Craig was doing, I say, I'm not bringing the Craig energy. I'm just gonna be honest with you. I don't have it in me. I think I do okay, but he's uh he's unique and awesome. Um no shout out Craig. Certainly, yeah, it's been fun. Uh I am not a runner anymore, Josh. I can do all of an 18-minute mile now. And uh we're talking we're talking about only one mile uh being run. Um and I wish I was joking on that, but man, uh once you once you get out of it, it's tough to get back into. Uh I'm just thankful to you guys, thankful to the industry, honestly. Uh, you know, hey, we're open for business. We're gonna try to start moving this thing forward. You know, this is March of 2026. I don't know when the episode's going out, but uh, I'll check with Deanna. But we're ready to roll, we're ready to help you if you want to be helped. We don't want to be over overly salesy. I really wanted to talk about these guys' personalities today because I felt like as important as dealer kickbacks are and as important as your buybacks are and your systems and your processes and who are you using for a POS and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You can go into all of that. But all of that starts on the foundation of being uh good, honest, decent, hardworking, old school, just focusing on the customer. And I hope we do that well. I think we do, and I think. That's what we want to do with you guys if you're interested. Lots of good competition out there, too. We're not, you know, saying that we're, you know, only ones doing that. There's a lot of good people out there, you know. Uh, so thank you guys. I just appreciate getting to know you. And Titus, I don't know if you're uh if you're up to this. I'm maybe asking on a you know uh uh just a last minute whim or whatever. But I've always, you know, I do believe in the power of prayer, you know. Uh, and uh I just wondered if you would if you'd end us here with you know praying over the industry, you know, altogether.

Titus Hofer 1:06:35

Yes, I would love to, sure thing. Let's pray. Gracious Father, we come to you on this afternoon in this springtime day, thanking you for your goodness to us, your mercies that are new to us every morning, your great faithfulness to us as your children. Lord, we feel so blessed that we can call you our Father. Lord, we're thankful for our time together with Shannon today. Thank you for the blessing that he has been in our lives. And Lord, we thank you also for the privilege of serving you through business, realize that we can be the hands and feet of Jesus here on this earth as we seek to minister to the needs of others. And Lord, so I just ask that this you would continue to break bless this industry as it follows your principles. Help each one of us to realize that uh following in the footsteps of Jesus is the most important thing in life, and that when we stand before you to give the account of our deeds here, that even our business practices will come under the scrutiny of your all-knowing eye, and that we must follow the principles that you have laid out in your word. So, we thank you, Lord, for the privilege of uh being together in this way, and we ask that your name would continue to receive all the glory and praise. We ask in the name of Jesus. Amen.

Shannon 1:07:54

Amen. Thank you guys so much for being on today. Uh seek to minister to the needs of others. Brilliant. Just well said, Titus. Appreciate you guys for being on the show today. Uh, we'll catch you on the next one.

OUTRO 1:08:10

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