A 16-Year Shed Veteran

The shed lot can be packed and still feel stuck, and that’s where Rolando Castrejon brings a clear, grounded perspective. We talk with Rolando about building a shed business the hard way: starting in sales back in 2010 with no construction background, learning what customers truly care about, then taking the leap to launch his own operation in 2022 and growing it into three locations in North Carolina.

We get real about what’s changed since the pre-COVID years and why price perception is so weird right now. Customers still comment that carports “used to be $595,” yet many buyers now call today’s higher prices a good deal. From there, we dig into the K-shaped economy and what it’s doing to rent-to-own sheds, cash sales, and the kinds of buildings people want: finished backyard spaces, man caves, she sheds, and bigger custom projects for retirees who are ready to enjoy their property.

We also break down the technology shift in the shed industry, from early Facebook advertising wins to the modern pay-to-play world of targeting, tracking, SEO, and online configurators. But we don’t stop at tools. Rolando makes the case for a middle ground where you keep the personal touch, invite people to walk the buildings, and treat every buyer like a real relationship, not a transaction.

If you sell sheds, manage a lot, run marketing, or want a better close rate, you’ll leave with practical language and a simple sales framework: listen for the real problem, then solve it. Subscribe, share this with a dealer friend, and leave a review with your biggest “customer objection” so we can talk through it on a future show.

For more information or to know more about the Shed Geek Podcast visit us at our website.

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This episodes Sponsors:
Studio Sponsor: Shed Pro

Pittsburgh Paints
Identigrow
Cardinal Manufacturing
CAL
Solar Blaster

Transcript

INTRO 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Shed Geek Podcast. A quick word about our studio sponsor. One thing the team at Shed Pro has been hearing lately from Shed businesses is that many of them aren't struggling because of lack of demand. Things just kind of stall out. The lot is busy, but growth flattens, and it's not always obvious why. Usually it's something small. The website, the follow-up. How customers interact with you before they ever pick up the phone. So Shed Pro puts something together called the Shed Sales Audit. It helps you get a clearer picture of where you might be losing people. It takes a couple of minutes, and if you want to dig deeper, their team will walk you through it. Here's the thing. Nine times out of ten, the fix isn't more leads, it's a tighter operation underneath. That's the rest of the Shed Pro platform. Configurator, point of sale, RTO contracts, inventory, deliveries, and dealer tools. All in one place.co/ ShedGeek. Thank you, Shed Pro, for being our Wednesday studio sponsor and for building something that helps the industry.

Shannon 1:15

Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Shed Geek Podcast. Uh wherever you're listening from today, I hope that it you are uh blessed and I hope that you are enjoying uh your opportunity to have some free time to tune in to uh what we hope are episodes that bring you joy and that bring you knowledge and that bring you laughter, and that um that it's a it's a it's a bright moment in your day to get to listen to the stories uh and experiences from others and learn from them and help by contributing. Uh today I'm joined by Rolando. I'm gonna say your last name wrong. Can you give it to me? Castrejon. Castrejon. See, it's way simpler than I made it to be. Uh Rolando uh owns three locations out in uh in North Carolina, so we're gonna get into that. But before we do, a few ways to stay plugged into us. Uh feel free to give us a call over here at 618-309-3648-3648. That's my personal sale. And I'd love to chat with you. I'd love to hear your story. I'd love to know anything that you've got going on that's in the shed industry. And if you'll be willing to sit down on a podcast with me, we'd love to hear that too. It's uh way less pressure than uh than you may think it is. We keep it simple over here. Info, I- n- f-o @ shedgeek.com to reach us, and of course, shedgeek.com. Uh, just go check out our website and uh and you know what? Write us, encourage us to go take a look at yours. We'd love to. We'd love to share ideas and thoughts on it. Uh like our Facebook page, just because that's the thing we have to do, right? Like our Facebook page. We'll like yours back. Uh, we believe that that helps build this community. And check us out on the Shed Sales Professionals group where we always try to have conversations that are offering uh great and valuable insights in the industry. And if you have a plain community friend uh who would like to listen to the podcast, there is a phone number for them to call in and listen. Uh, we do have about three to four hundred listeners a week on that line, 330-997-3055. We thank each and every one of you for listening. Um, that does mean a lot. Um, there is a newsletter available if you'd like to sign up for, and we even have um um a full list um of all of the episodes. So, if you're in the playing community and you need to know uh which episode to listen to, there is a show number that goes along with it. Just email us.

Shed Show Plans And Partners

Shannon 3:47

Now, I gotta start here by saying the shed show is coming up. We are getting close. The shed show is almost here in Knoxville, Tennessee this year. We're gonna be there, we're gonna have a booth, and Pittsburgh Paint's true industrial team wants to see you there. I've been so, so happy to partner with these guys. They've just done excellent work for everyone we've connected them with. On September and 2023 and 24th, the world of shed builders will gather in Knoxville, Tennessee. We want you uh we want to meet you there and talk to you about the wide world of coatings and our true industrial shed max program. Meet with a team uh of color experts, see samples, schedule demos, and more right there from the show floor. Look for the Pittsburgh Paints True Industrial Booth near the entrance in booth 1501, booth 1501 for Pittsburgh's True Industrial Booth. Uh get in touch with us uh with the folks over there at Pittsburgh uh Paints uh uh by just reaching out to Jamie at sheds, s h e d s sheds@ pittsburghpaints.com. Thank you so much, Pittsburgh Paint. We really appreciate all that you do.

Meeting Rolando Castrejon

Shannon 5:03

Rolando, it's a mouthful, but I got through it. I got through it. I'm here. And for everyone still listening and hasn't fast forwarded uh through everything I'm saying just to get to uh what you're getting ready to say. Uh thank you for those who stuck around long enough to hear. Rolando, man, uh, we made a call and said, hey, we're we need to get some guests, and you were you're a brave soul. You reached out and said, you know what, let's chat. I love talking about sheds. And so uh so, man, I just want to talk to you about that. Uh, I want to know your story, where you got started, what your experience has been, what you're seeing. Welcome to the show. Tell me about yourself.

Rolando Castrejon 5:43

Thank you. I appreciate you guys for having me. Um it's funny because uh you said that I responded to that uh that message. I've been nervous ever since I did, because uh even before our meeting uh started, my heart was pounding. I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna say. I don't know if anybody will care to listen to me, but when it comes to uh talking all things uh shed about the shed industry and about what we do, um, you know, it just it piques my interest, and I I'm sure everybody that listens feels the same way. Um I've been uh in the industry since about 2010, so for 16 years now. And I had a friend one day that sold sheds and carports and garages, and he uh asked me about coming to work for him one day. And I'm probably I'm not your typical shed sales guy, I don't feel like because I have no building experience. I didn't really know anything about the buildings. Um, you know, I hear a lot of people say driving down the road, you never notice our business, these types of businesses up until you need a building or until you start working uh selling buildings, and uh and then all of a sudden you see them on every corner. Uh well I had never been in sales and uh didn't have any building experience. And um I came in and he showed me everything that I needed to know as far as selling the buildings, and uh and then I was a salesman for 12 years and um had a good amount of success doing that, really enjoyed it, uh enjoyed the type of business. It's not it's you know, honestly not a very hard job to do. Um, of course, I would go home and every day and tell my wife I worked like a dog, and man, I just gotta kick my feet up, and uh, you know, uh it was a hard day, but in reality, you know, we were sitting around and having good conversations with people just like we're doing now and uh selling and making money at the same time. And so, uh sold for a long time and actually had expected to be able to purchase the business I was working for, uh, but it didn't end up going that way. And so, when the business I was working for sold, um it was time for me to go out on my own instead of stay up under the same company. So, uh me and my wife took and risked everything we had, just like a lot of people who start their own businesses, and uh jumped into the deep end and never looked back since. I mean, uh we had fairly good timing because people who've been doing this since at least 2020 know that the pandemic years were something amazing for us. And uh, and so I started in um 2022 when we were still riding high on that roller coaster and uh and uh just started out with a bang and been growing ever since. Started with a one lot, uh grew to a second lot and then a third lot, and uh still looking to grow some more, just looking for a good spot and the right opportunity, and when it comes along, we'll probably take advantage of that.

Shannon 8:42

I love it. Yeah, I certainly remember the pre-COVID years and also the COVID years as such a dynamic in sort of the way uh the industry operated, all of that cash that was just in the atmosphere seemed to be favorable for us, and everyone was so worried about it whenever it first started. It was like, oh no, are we made the wrong decision? Are we, you know, how are we going to stay in business? And it really did work out. And uh uh, you know, communication, you know, you talk about just sitting around and talking and having these conversations, you know, led me to the thought, you know, I wrote this down, communication solves problems, you know, and it's uh uh you know, I say it's even biblical, you know, the Bible says iron sharpens iron. So, I believe that it's really good for us to just be able to talk, have conversation, and we really try to do that here, uh, you know, from CEOs to you know, software designers and SaaS products and lumber providers and shed dealers and haulers and just really so many different

Carports, Sheds, And Price Shock

Shannon 9:46

people. And you find yourself in this very um common space nowadays where you know you sell both sheds and carports. Uh, am I right on that? And uh and uh those things bleed over into each other so much now that it's starting to get confusing. Well, maybe not confusing, but it's just hard to draw the line on where one stops and the other starts. It's it it's such a complimentary product. We're seeing manufacturers start to uh of sheds start to get into you know steel buildings and things like that. And what an opportunity there, because uh man, I'm every time I go look at one to price a little carport to put at my house, I remember selling, you know, nine years ago, and I remember what the prices were. And when I see them, I'm like, no way, no way are they getting that. Are people still buying them? And yeah, they absolutely are going off the shelf, as a matter of fact.

Rolando Castrejon 10:46

Yeah, you're exactly right. Uh when we when we advertise, um we inevitably will get several people comment, man, look at those prices. I remember when they were $5.95 and $6.95, and uh, and my sales guys who are typically responding to comments and messages, they they'll message me and they're like, oh man, what do I say? What do I say to that? Do I just delete it or what? Because you know, you typically want to delete negative messages. And I say, no, no, no, give me a second. Let me let me uh let me get on there. And uh so I get on there on our Facebook page and I'll message under comment underneath. I'm like, yeah, you know what, I've been uh I've been selling them since they were that price. In fact, and I do. I have uh a sign in my closet that said single car port 595, double car port 695. And uh, and you know, I've been selling them for that long. And what's funny is that back when they were that price, um I mean we moved some car ports, but people complained about the amount, the price all the time. And uh and now that we're you know more than double what that is, or roundabout double, uh people when they call for the price, they're like, oh man, that's a really good price. That's a really good price. I was like, you know, there's just some shift in the paradigm uh that people people's uh perception of prices and everything like with inflation getting so high, it's just so strange that now that things are way more expensive, people for whatever reason perceive as uh perceive our current prices as being really good. Um but back in the day, selling a $600 carport, I would have to beg. I would have to beg. And uh, you know, please give me uh $60 for this deposit so you can uh so I can place all the carport.

AD-IDENTIGROW 12:31

Oh no. Sam, what's going on? Are you okay? Yes, I'm fine, Lisa. I was just trying to get a screwdriver and all this other stuff fell down. I'm ready to go buy a shed so we can have some space in this garage again. I agree. I keep looking at the shed Mr. Jenkins bought. Let's ask him where I got his. Howdy, neighbor. We're wondering, how do you like your shed? I love it. It's exactly what I needed, and I couldn't have asked for a better service. And where did you get it? Hmm. I can't remember, but let me check. Something this nice will probably have the builder's name on it somewhere. Hmm. No, I'm sorry. I can't find a name anywhere. Well, we finally got a shed. Yes, I just hope we're happy. The thing is a lot more shoddy than I expected, and I'm sure I told him I wanted a window, but they didn't have it in the paperwork, so I couldn't argue. Boy, is this a lousy shed. We haven't even had it two years, have we? Barely. It was just a bad deal all the way around. Mr. Jenkins told me the other day that he likes his shed so much he wants to get a second one, but he still can't remember where he got it. Your product is your best advertising. At Identigrow, we provide nameplates that ensure your quality products are never forgotten. Identify your products, grow your business. For more information, visit identigrow.com. Or give them a call at 540-283-9193.

Shannon 14:09

We had here in town, we had a car dealership who sold them. And even after the car dealership went out of business. Matter of fact, there's two here in town that sold them. Both car dealerships went out of business, both still have existing uh steel building structures that were you know part of what they were. And the one had the 595 sign with yellow, uh with yellow numbers and a red background for years after, and that advertisement is just setting the stage.

Rolando Castrejon 14:43

Yes.

Shannon 14:44

Uh like when I was selling them, I wanted to go up there and just tear that down. That way they're not going to be able to do that. That's what I was gonna say.

Rolando Castrejon 14:49

Some poor shed dealer. Yeah, some poor shed dealer right up the road is like people keep coming to me and saying they can get it for six hundred dollars at that car, that whole car dealership. I have one almost exactly the same. It's a guy that I don't know what he used to do, but he still has his carport and his sign up. And I agree with you. Some days I want to just go and knock on his door and be like, Can I just pull that down, please? Please.

Shannon 15:09

I told him, I said, you know, there's another gas station that went out, and if you notice, the sign still says a buck 39 for gas, and we know that's not happening. So uh you know, I

The K-Shaped Economy Hits Sales

Shannon 15:20

I was like, that's just the reality. The prices do increase. You know, you said uh, you know, you know, uh a bit of an economist, if you will, as well. Too. Where do you where do you feel like the rub is? Like, what do you feel like has changed things? Do you feel like tariffs really increase the price? Do you think that um demand has increased? Uh I mean, I a lot of people I talk to, carports and metal buildings are still selling like mad.

Rolando Castrejon 15:52

Um it's really interesting, and you know, everybody claims to know what's going on. Uh but a lot of times people would tell you different stories, and I have my theories um that I'm sure are different than the next guy. But uh somebody had posted in shut in the Shed Professionals group on Facebook earlier today about the K-shaped economy, and that's something that I've been thinking about every for the for the last uh couple years really. Um as inflation goes up, um the people that are wealthy and have real estate and have property, you know, they're gonna do good whether the economy gets better or it gets worse. Because if it's if it's getting worse and there's a ton of inflation, then their property values are going up and uh and their wealth is increasing. Uh on the other end of the spectrum, you have people who are living paycheck to paycheck, and when inflation is high and things are getting the economy is getting a little bit worse, they struggle more. And so um you've got this very interesting dichotomy where uh at previous times in in me selling sheds, uh, we had a lot higher percentage of rent-owned customers, um people with you know not good credit and just one payment that they could get down to get a building out to the house. And that was a huge chunk of our business. And uh as far as the proportion of RTO versus cash sales or something uh or financing, um the RTO percentages definitely dropped. And in my eyes, in my view, it's basically that you know the people who are living paycheck to paycheck, they're just not able to afford um even an RTO building like they used to. Uh right now a lot of people are struggling to afford groceries and put gas in their cars. Um, I hear that the repo numbers on cars is uh is really high. They're uh, if I'm not mistaken, they've set a few records over the over the last year, if I'm not mistaken. Um and so the people on that side of the spectrum are really struggling right now. And uh, and again with the case-shaped economy, the people on the other side of the spectrum, a lot of them, they're seeing their wealth increase and uh and they're deciding, you know what, it's time to retire. Have a lot of customers who are saying that uh um I just retired this year, I'm gonna go ahead and build my build my backyard like I wanted. I need my gazebo, I need my man cave, my garage, and this and that. And I want to go ahead and get everything built so that I can enjoy the rest of my retirement. And you know, they've just had this huge increase in wealth and they're ready to go, they're ready to pay cash and get it done. And so from an economical standpoint, you you've got that split. And then from people from the standpoint of people in our industry, you know, how do we adapt to that? So, how are we attracting those customers that are uh cash paying customers or good credit finance customers, looking for those bigger products, those nicer products, you know? They're not out here necessarily looking for the cheapest shed to throw a lawnmower in, um, as long as they can afford the rent-to-own payment. They're looking for something nice, a lot of times something finished. Um, like I said, those man caves and she sheds, which have been uh popular terms uh the last few years, I think since COVID happened, they uh people started making commercials uh saying man cave and she shed, and that's you hear that every day. I never heard it before 2020, or if I did, very rarely. Uh but after 2020, you hear it almost every day. Um, and so uh, you know, people in our industry just have to pay attention to what's happening and just make sure that we're following the trends because things are changing. And the way it was five years ago or ten years ago is not gonna be the way it is right now, and how it is right now is not gonna continue to be the same uh in in a few years. I mean, it could go back to how it was, it could uh it could become more extreme, um, or it could kind of mellow out. And um you just you never know ahead of time. You can never predict what's gonna happen. Only thing you can do is watch trends and try your best to prepare and be there for what the market dictates.

Shannon 20:04

Get

RTO Payments And Term Trends

Shannon 20:05

ahead of the curve at every opportunity you get. You mentioned like those RTO customers and the K-shape, and I'm proud to say that that was Cord, uh, who does our Friday episodes who actually put that post out this morning. Uh, you know, he's uh he's a bit of an economist, of course. He mentioned in that, you know, his brother does real estate development and things like that. So, you know, they watch these things very closely. And I even looked at the comments, uh, I didn't get uh much time, but I did sneak in those first two comments, and then I haven't got a chance to follow the post since, but it mentioned, you know, uh I noticed there was one person that seemingly said we follow the housing market, and then there was one that said we don't follow the housing market. So, it's kind of interesting to see the dichotomy between the even those two. Uh you know, as a shed seller. Uh what I'm curious about, you know, you mentioned, you know, that oh gosh, you know, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer, which is what we hear all the time anyway, you know, paycheck to paycheck versus being able to just come in and pay cash for what you need. Um, you know, have you seen an uptick of 60 month, you know, RTO contracts? Do you feel like over those last few years that people are struggling to stay in a 36-month contract and wanting to go longer? And are you having people ask for even longer, you know, to be able to the building's getting more expensive, but the payments, you know, or the rental fees, I suppose we should say to be technically correct, the rental fees are uh are increasing. Uh and because of that, would a longer term make more sense, kind of like what they've gone to in the car industry, where 60 months was very common at one point. Now you're seeing 72, 84, 96, you know, and I know there's some legalities in that that we probably should address at some point, but Um as far as customer demand, do you feel like that's there? Are they wanting that?

Rolando Castrejon 22:06

Um I mean customers will always uh well let's say rent's own customers. Rent's own customers are always gonna seek out the lowest possible payment they can find. Um and um you know, a lot of the times, just like when people go to buy a car, people will often not ask what the price is of the car, not really care as long as they can afford the payment. And that tends to be the case with rent-to-own sheds as well. You know, you could tell people the price, but it's really just an abstract number uh because uh it doesn't really matter to them what the price is. Uh it doesn't really affect them as much as the payment does. Exactly. So, when you're living paycheck to paycheck, you're only uh the only thing you have to think about is that can I take a portion of this paycheck and apply it, and can I get what I want? And uh if you if you as a sales lot or a salesman uh can make that happen with a building that's sufficient for what I need, then yeah, let's do it. Um but in this similar to the carports, how uh back in the day it felt like a struggle to sell things at half the price they are now. I kind of feel that way about buildings. So even though the prices of buildings have obviously uh increased a lot over the last five years, um people's perception of what a good payment is uh versus a payment that's too high has gone up and kind of followed it as well. And so, I don't really see a hard push. Like I don't think that we lose sales because people need a smaller payment than what we're offering. Um but um my the company that does art that I work with for RTO for our sheds, uh me and him have been working together for the entire 16 years that I've been doing this, and me and the owner are pretty tight. And every few months me and him will communicate and uh and I'll ask him a lot about his analytics because he has a lot of good software that that takes a look at um at the his RTO contracts and people who have paid, people who haven't paid, and things like that. So we'll talk about you know how are the contracts holding up for people over 10,000, over 12,000, uh, or you know, five year versus four year versus three year. What about customers who set up auto draft versus um versus you know just mailing in payments and stuff like that? And a lot of times we'll talk about those because a lot of times we can try to work out a better deal for our customer, or for example, if they're willing to do the auto draft, because that tends to keep them current. Um, and so I uh I talk to my guy a lot, and uh you know, we discuss the numbers in depth and take a look at maybe what the next thing is because even RTO is evolved. Back when I started, um people were doing two payments down, just about everybody did two payments down. And uh, and then all of a sudden, you know, somebody's doing one payment down, and then everybody freaks out like, hey, hey, they're calling their RTO guys, hey man, this shed light down the road, they're doing one payment down. That that can't be legal, right? And then like, well, let's test it out and see how it goes. And uh, and so you know, you they do that, and then they go test out bigger and bigger buildings, and uh, you know, if it works, it works. If they're making money, if we're making money and the customer's happy, then you know, keep pushing in the right direction. But um, but obviously everybody has to be making money or it's just not gonna be viable.

AD-CARDINAL MANUFACTURING 25:38

I got a big day tomorrow. I have a fully finished 18 by 40 cabin that's gonna require two to three meals to get it delivered. Way back in the sticks and down a dirt lane. With all the rain we've had lately, it's gonna be a mess. But it needs a bigger mule. Well, when you talk, Cardinal listens and you asked for it. With its diesel-powered 69-horse engine and capacity to move 40,000-pound sheds, the Mule 9069 is ready to turn your big days into just another day in the good life. Ah, that's right. You're talking about the one they had up in Michigan at the shed show. That monster meal, that man, that thing was awesome. That's right. It's the one you've seen at all the shed hauler barbecues. Man, yeah, there's nothing like a little diesel donkey to make my day go so much better.

Shannon 26:40

Yeah, I it is interesting, even in the short time that I feel like I've been in, which is a while now. It's hard to it's hard to imagine that it's already the time's flown by this quick. But I feel like I've seen so many changes.

How Technology Changed The Industry

Shannon 26:57

Um what has changed the most for you over 16 years? What is what has changed for the better?

Rolando Castrejon 27:07

Um for the better?

Shannon 27:09

Hmm.

Rolando Castrejon 27:11

I think uh the technology has definitely uh improved and given people a lot more tools. Um you know when you think about mar uh uh industries like the housing industry and the auto industry, those guys are decades ahead of us. They've been implementing technology and sales technology, websites, inventory, things like that. Um they've been implementing that for a long time now. And as a shed industry, you know, we're trying to catch up in a lot of ways. We pretty much have um but the our industry is caught up, but maybe not all of our shed dealers have caught up. And so you still have a lot of guys who have been doing it 30, 40 years. I have a lot of friends that have been in the in the business for decades, and some of them I talk to every week. And um, you know, they want to stick with the old school stuff. Uh you got to fax in your orders, uh, they fax me bills. Um, so I still have to have a fax machine in my offices. Uh and uh no texting, no emailing, no, no Facebook and Google advertising. But uh, but that part of the business has definitely gotten better. Um, I remember when Facebook advertising started, and um I like to kind of brag, even though it's not really a brag. I like to say I was one of the first ones on Facebook because when uh when Facebook got opened up to college students, I was in college uh back in 2004. And um, and so we got an invite to join Facebook, and no other people were allowed, your parents weren't allowed to get on there, your younger siblings weren't allowed to get on there, just me and my other college buddies at whatever college. And so it kind of felt you know very exclusive, and then obviously it grew to everybody. And so, I like to say I was one of the pioneers of Facebook. Uh, but when uh got into the shed sales, um, Facebook started it started coming out with advertising. And um, and I took a look at what they were offering, and you know, the general public was not happy about Facebook putting ads on their uh timelines at the beginning when they first started doing it. Um but you know, I saw it as an opportunity, and um when I decided to try and test the waters, uh the only people advertising on Facebook were Coca-Cola, McDonald's, these billion-dollar companies, you know, you didn't have any Ma-n-pa shops on there. And I decided to give it a try and see what it uh see how it went. And um I put, I remember I put a little bit of my own money on there and advertised uh, I think the carports, the 695 carports. And um, and that week I sold like five, and I went to my boss, I'm like, you know, the results speak for themselves. And he was like, Well, how much money did you put on there? And I was telling him it was like $50 because I didn't have a lot of money back there back then. And he's like, Well, can uh can I give you money to put on there? And I said, Yeah, you definitely can. And uh, and so I started advertising not only for my lot, but for all of his lots uh for him. And um, and like I said, it was it was like finding treasure because no other mom and pop businesses were on there. Uh, we felt like we were the first ones to the party, and it was extremely successful. And um, and it's just been over the years, even now, it's just a valuable, valuable tool. And um, I communicate. So, I've done some work uh with other lots all over the country, and uh, and I'll talk to them about what they need to do to get things like that started, to help them get things like started as a consultant. And um, and I've helped people, and you know, it doesn't it doesn't work out fantastic for everybody, but I definitely had had people, one guy in particular, he's like, Man, you've changed my business. And um, and I was like it just feels good to be able to show somebody and give them something that's a key to the success for their business. And that's definitely been one of the better parts of the shed business that we didn't start with, uh, at least back when I was, you know, started in 2010.

Modern Ads, Data, And Pay-To-Play

Shannon 31:17

You know, it seems like the name of the game is you know, the more people that you can get in front of that turn into leads, turn into conversions are ultimately the answer. And that sounds like a pretty good cost per acquisition at $50 for six leads, you know, and a $695 sale. Those leads obviously have become harder to get. Uh, and you know, I think even it's worth addressing sometimes that advertisement uh is used so synonymously with I put something on my personal page or even a business page uh versus using the meta business suite and uh you know, or a boost post or things like that. I mean, there's a whole different ballgame out there when you know get very targeted and you start, you know, uh directing towards device IDs and IP addresses and using the collection of data, whether it be through social media, uh, which is more disruptive, right? Disruptive advertising. Like you want to catch someone while they're scrolling and you're competing for their attention if they want to be sold to. Most of them don't. Right. Uh, but I don't, as far as I know, just face Facebook doesn't have a uh they don't have a uh advertisement free option at this point uh that you can pay for, quite like YouTube. I don't know.

Rolando Castrejon 32:39

If they do, I don't know about it.

Shannon 32:41

If they do, I'm not familiar with it either. It's probably coming. Uh, but you know, Facebook's kind of made it clear that they want you to pay to play. You know, if you're going to use this as a business uh uh option uh and not just socially to connect with your friends, family, and your old classmates or whatever the original intentions were, they just realized we stumbled upon a business idea. Uh, but now you have to you have to focus on you know disruptive marketing. Uh and so then you're gonna have to capture all that data. You need a Google or a Meta-pixel, you know, like on your website. People are like, what are you talking about? And it's like, hey, this is how you use data to your advantage. It's almost something I'm not a fan of because I don't even like being targeted. I don't like being advertised to.

Rolando Castrejon 33:29

Uh well, you say that until your favorite uh your favorite music group pops up and there's a concept in your ear, and they're like, oh yeah, I definitely want to go to that, right?

Shannon 33:36

Thank goodness I knew that they were gonna be around. And that's right. Like that's the that's the thing that you have to be mindful of. Like we sell advertising on here. And I understand people are like, oh, I'll just move on past that until you need help with it, until you need a service that they offer, or until it dawns on you that, like, hey, what they offer really would quote change my business, right? Like it truly changes what I do. And that's not even getting into Google or or you know, the complexity of Google ads and search work keyword search queries versus SEO, you know, SEO, and now this, you know, AEO. We just did a podcast on that, and AI overview and how website clicks are down, and people are like, Well, I just want to sell sheds, right? Like, I just want to sell sheds. And it's like, well, unfortunately, yeah, everybody agrees doing it. Yeah, yeah.

Rolando Castrejon 34:30

You can you can't be the only one not doing it.

Shannon 34:32

I told someone today uh who's gonna be on the podcast soon. I talked to them, they've got a really cool and interesting story. They were someone else who reached out off of that post and and thank you that you guys would do that. And they said, um, you know, they were just talking about how much it's changed, how things are different now, how you have to be very intentional about what you're doing. And we were discussing, you know, the lone wolf who says, I'm not doing it, I'm not getting involved in any of that stuff. Uh, I'm just gonna build a shed, set it out there, put a trifold out, and do well. I think that works good for a one-person like family. You know, I think if you're wanting to just stay, you know, low cost and build some sheds and set them out by the road, you can still do that and you can make it work. And maybe you don't want to scale because scaling certainly doesn't feel possible in in that way.

Rolando Castrejon 35:34

Yeah, and I mean, you know, just like anything else, you get into it what uh you get out of it what you put into it. So, you know, if you're wanting to uh a lot of people in our industry are retirees looking to uh to make some extra income after they retire and just want to sit in an office and sell buildings is what they think is gonna happen, which it it does. Um, but if that's what you're putting into it, then that's what you're gonna get out. But if you want to grow and you want to do more, um, you know, you've got to put more into it.

Tech Tools Without Losing People

Rolando Castrejon 36:03

But uh I will say this because I have seen a lot of that tech that technology side uh coming into the industry, and it's uh it's my opinion that I don't think we should necessarily take it to the opposite uh extreme and and full on go go all out with technology in every single way that we can. Um I like a happy middle ground. Uh like I like I mentioned earlier, I've got some friends, one friend in particular who's been doing this for 40 years, and um and he likes doing things the way he's always done things. And um and I have learned a lot from him. Uh this is the kind of guy that when he tells you something, you can take it to the bank, you know. Uh he is gonna do what he says he's gonna do, even though I have to fax him to communicate sometimes. And uh I can always rely on him and uh and the way he does business, the way he builds, the way he treats customers is very different, and his customers appreciate that. And so sometimes we can get so deep into the benefits of technology that we lose that personal touch. Um, and the same thing with the car industry. I mean, you know, a lot of times people want to sell you or people want to look online for cars and find what they're looking for, but then you want to go and talk to somebody, you want to drive the car, you want to pop the hood and look at it, you want uh you want to put your hands on it and feel and look and use your senses. And um, and so I think that a lot of places are losing that in our industry, and they're going so hard on technology, and it it's good up to a point. Um, it's gonna put you ahead of your competition in a lot of ways, but you still have to go back to those initial values that you had as a as a business and uh and how people used to do things and treat people with respect, talk to people. Uh, a lot of times when we communicate with people on uh online or on Facebook or through email, we'll tell people if you want to order online, if you want to order by phone, of course we have that available. But if you want to come in and talk to us in our office, then we can set you up an appointment to do that. And a lot of people really want to do that. Now, you do have your crowd that just doesn't want to come in contact with anybody and wants to buy online and never talk to you, and that's fine. We're we're there for them. But don't lose that other group of people that want to come and meet you and put their eyes on it and walk inside of a shed.

AD-CAL 38:32

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Why Online And Lots Both Matter

Shannon 39:37

Yeah, I mean I think we're at a place where you have to be able to do both, unfortunately, and that's the most expensive option. You know, um, you know, unfortunately, that's the most expensive option. Um you have to learn how to uh you have to learn how to perfect the sales lot and the process of people coming in and finding you and facing the buildings and doing all the stuff to make it look appealing from good roadside to, you know, also creating brand consistency through uh a website, your ads, you know, your Google business profile, your I mean, like you have to do all the things and they have to look seamless, and you really want to take them down a customer journey on the website the same way you want to take them down a customer journey as they approach your shed sales lot. And I think that if you do all of one and none of the other, it's probably not your best uh uh opportunity. Um so I don't think that you can be all of all of the technology you you know, like based shed seller. You can do it, but I know I know folks, I know companies that were doing this seven or eight years ago who now have shed lots because they recognize that you do need that tangible aspect to wanting to come in and touch it and feel it and see it, and like just prove that you are what you say you are. And it is an expensive product. One of the things on that K-shaped economy post that Cord made was something we talk about over here often, which is on your property, it's about the third largest product that someone's gonna buy: a house, a car, and then probably some type of outbuilding, whether it be a pole barn or a shed or whatever. It's a pretty heavy investment, and almost everyone has storage now of some shape. What what's the what's the new Facebook?

Searching For The Next Facebook

Shannon 41:31

That's what I want to know. What is the next thing? We've got Google, we got you know meta. Uh, but what's the next thing? You know, I mean, of course, TikTok or Roku or you know, just my TikTok.

Rolando Castrejon 41:45

I don't want to be dancing and selling buildings, you know.

Shannon 41:50

I have uh you're gonna have to put your best moves on, Rolando. We're ready to watch.

Rolando Castrejon 42:00

And so, you know, their language changes every year from whether it's it's Skibbity, Ohio, Riz, or or whatever is the new jargon. Yeah, that's dogwater. And so, you know, I have to learn new vocabulary and new jargon every year, and it's the same way with uh even though I don't let them on social media. I know it's the same way because there's con the social media platforms are constantly evolving. And you know, when I stumbled on the Facebook advertising and found success there, I continually asked myself, okay, what is the next Facebook? Uh what do we find before everybody else does? Um and uh I mean the truth is I don't know. Uh technology has reached a point these days with AI um and and and this the younger generation that it just changes so fast. And um I the thing as a business owner, um, well, to take one step back, you know, as a business owner, when you think about the investment that you spend as far as the funds and the advertisement, where you're going to use money, where it makes the biggest uh improvement, whether it's spending money on signs for your lot, or whether it's spending money on new configurator softwares uh or or something on the technology side, and how much to spend here, how much to spend there, what bring what's the biggest ROI, the biggest return on investment. As a business owner, you have to make that decision and just and and look at the data and decide. And so when it comes to when it comes to the the next Facebook, you know, only thing the only thing that I try to do is test the waters. And so me and um me and my wife opened a cafe last year, and um the cafe and the restaurant business is very different from the shed business. And uh, and so whereas you know the target market for sheds is typically on Facebook, uh, and maybe not so much on Instagram and TikTok, uh, it was the opposite for cafe goers with our boba drinks and fancy, you know, iced coffees and stuff like that. We were pushing. hard on TikTok and and uh and trying to make meme videos I didn't dance though I promise um and we're trying to you sure you're not capping right now right no it was it was only it was only dancing cats and uh and grandmas there was I was not dancing on any of those videos okay but uh I was gonna call out you for capping whatever that even means I was gonna call you yeah no caps no cap no cap but but uh but we definitely tested the waters and and so you know that was important to me to get on there and try out their advertising which I had not done for the sheds for the shed lots and see how successful that would be or if it was better to stick with Google. And um I didn't have a ton of success I don't think that some of the newer apps even though they've put a lot of uh a lot of effort into making a good social media place where people kind of stick around and look at videos they haven't poured in the amount of effort like Facebook meta has into their advertising side and it took it takes them a while to catch up and I was having I was struggling a lot to target specific areas specific age groups and things like that and it's probably different now I um than it was when I was testing the waters but really you know who knows what the next Facebook is it's just a matter of being in tune with what's going on seeing what's out there and then testing it out I had tested out a um a particular I use configurators uh to design some parts of some products for in my business but not other products and I did actually spend a good deal of money creating one and after using it for a little while found that it wasn't worth the value uh for a for one particular product but for another product it was and so where I kept one and left the other for me it was okay losing that money because I tested it out it might have been something good but it just didn't work out for us and it might work out for somebody different than it did for us but you know when you see something new you check it out and make sure you're informed and uh test it out spend a little bit of money they say no risk no Rory and uh so if you want to drive the Ferrari you know you got to risk a little bit of money every once in a while and test things out and see again what the next Facebook is.

Shannon 46:14

That's

First-Mover Thinking And Marketing Noise

Shannon 46:15

I you know entrepreneurship is what's built this country you know and like I'm just a fan of people who are uh uh creative you know and uh I think somebody told me one time in this industry and this has been I think back to the NSRA uh you know whenever the comment was made one time from the stage uh the copycat culture in the industry needs to stop and it's just not going to stop right like people are going to see what other people do and try to do it better or try to improve upon it or whatever. I mean I think that that you know Maya Angela says uh you know the more creativity you use the more of it you have so I'm a fan of always seeing you know like whatever you can do that's not out there and I remember somebody telling me one time what we're never going to be the first to do that we're gonna wait and see if it works and then we're gonna you know jump in and I was like whoo it's so under I it's understanding but it's so counterintuitive the way that I've always lived life and the way that I've always approached business is always want I like the first mover's advantage I enjoy being able to do new things cool things create systems and processes or ideas thoughts philosophies like being able to like see what works because you'd be surprised at like every now and then you hit a home run. You know if you'd have bought Bitcoin uh you know uh early on here a couple years ago you could have cashed out big but uh that's right um you know everybody says too with technology that you gotta you just gotta watch who you listen to and sometimes when you're not informed enough to know about it you're not sure what to listen to and what not to listen to.

Rolando Castrejon 47:57

I mean we've made mistakes but I literally have seen people ads or professionals uh in back-to-back messages say SEO is dead it's gone it's not here you need to focus on this and the next ad you get is like SEO is well and alive email campaigns you know uh no one emails anymore man I have found great success with the email campaigns our newsletter is based off of email campaign yeah you know and uh and it's worked great I mean like we get in touch with a lot of people um I mean none of these in in my opinion no technology is really dead I mean I saw where I saw where MySpace I forgot his name Tom the one who created my space said he's wanting to bring it back out there you know and he's wanting to I'm sure I can pull up my old MySpace uh page somewhere it probably still exists out there in the ether well he says he believes that social this is funny this think about the dynamic of this he says that he thinks that social media has gotten too unhealthy so he wants to relaunch you know MySpace and you're like well that's a oxymoron isn't it but he was saying you know because it needs to be more focused on family and it needs to be more focused on you know not business I mean quite frankly he wouldn't say it that directly but he was of the opinion that it you know advertisement always takes over something that's good uh yeah but at the same time unfortunately that's what that's what brings in the uh the money and that's right you know where they make these huge improvements that's where they uh they spend uh God knows how many millions of dollars for psychologists to tell them how to keep us uh scrolling you know uh that's why that's part of the reason why they are successful.

Shannon 49:44

It

Using Technology With Boundaries

Shannon 49:45

it really is interesting uh you know using technology is like using you know a knife or a grenade or a gun or anything you can use it for good you can use it for bad I don't know a whole lot of good reasons for a grenade necessarily but I'm sure we could come up with some um you know I think that it is how you use it how you restrict it you mentioned that you have you know some teenagers and you restrict social media because you know you want to be mindful of like what they consume but not controlling enough that they are curious enough to want to go do everything right it's a fine line and it's a challenge. It's a fine line as a parent it is a fine line. And nobody tells you where that line is well there's there's no instruction manual you know outside outside of what I like to say the Bible there's no instruction manual you know for that's right and even that you know is uh is uh you know a lot of people say allegorical and open to interpretation so you know how do you perceive you know different things uh and I'm not a pastor so I'm not gonna get into that argument but um a couple of things I want to ask you before we before we get off here it this is first of all how easy is this to get on a podcast and there's no pressure and it's easy and you know this is why I tell people it's worth coming on because it's like sharing your testimony.

Podcasting Is Easier Than It Looks

Shannon 51:06

You're sharing your experiences and we learn through those shared experiences.

Rolando Castrejon 51:09

Oh yeah the hardest part is the 30 minutes before it starts when I'm sitting here just waiting you know uh but as soon as soon as we're talking you know it it's great.

Shannon 51:20

It's and as a salesperson it you know it becomes second nature to just kind of you know have a have a true and meaningful conversation. Uh first question I want to ask you is what sells a shed today? If you're setting back and focusing on your three locations there in North Carolina talking to your salespeople what is the number one thing selling a shed today.

AD-SOLAR BLASTER 51:45

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Rolando Castrejon 53:34

Um so I'll preface that with saying this uh in our Facebook group online I I've seen a lot of people ask you know what technique do you use to sell a shed what's your opening line or or what kind of uh technique do you use?

What Sells Today: Problem Solving

Rolando Castrejon 53:52

Do you act like you don't really need to sell it or do you go above and beyond? And the thing is that um there's no one answer because every person and every customer is different. And in fact all of my lots are very different. I have a couple lots that are in very affluent areas and the customer base and the typical interaction is extremely different than uh than one of my locations that's in a lower income area. And so the advice and the techniques that I talk to certain salesmen about are completely opposite from another person. But what I do tell everyone is that essentially we are problem solvers. And uh it's so I went to college for math and um and to me everything is a problem. Everything is a problem and the good thing about math is that you can show three people the same problem and they might solve it three different ways but a lot of times the person who can figure out the most efficient way to solve a problem is going to get the results better. And so, every customer is like a problem. They all come to you and they have a problem. And so, you've got to figure out what that is and then you've got to solve it. And so, you know one person may say well I need I need a shed, but I need it fit in my budget. Or the next person says well I need a shed, but my HOA says you know I need this color I need this roof etc etc another person says well I've got fences and stuff that are in the way and I don't even know if you guys can do that. And most customers for whatever reason will not tell you what their problem is when they get on the lot, and a lot of novice salesmen won't ask. And so, you know you think they the new salesman they get a customer and they're like all right let me show what size do you want okay that's what size let me show you a 10 my 16 because that's what size you said. Here's our 10 my 16 that's nice here's the one for a good price. But the experienced salesmen are going to do a better job of listening figuring out what that problem is because maybe that customer has been to two or three other lots and they haven't solved that problem and now they're at your lot. So if you can figure out okay well really the issue is that they're just worried about an HOA and they've been to two other lots that didn't have the right color and the thing about us is that you know even though I might not have the right color sitting on my lot I need to understand the problem so I can tell the customer hey we can order it in that color. It's gonna be the same price and that's going to solve your problem. You know you solve that problem and then you've got a customer and again that's going to be a completely different problem and solution than the next person that walks up on your lot. So, how you sell a shed is listening, figuring out the problem to solve and then being good at solving it.

Shannon 56:42

I love it. I can almost see some signage in some offices you know that says uh you know here's our you know list of 20 FAQs or whatever or here's our you know just making sure to educate the consumer you know yes in big letters we can do color matching HOA you know yes we can deliver the next day or whatever it is that's like their problem uh you know and then they just begin to feel comfortable that like they know that you've been through this before and that you're looking to solve those issues.

Rolando Castrejon 57:17

That's exactly right when you've when you've got enough experience in this industry as start as soon as they start communicating with you and you start portraying that yeah I've had that I've had a hundred different people tell me that and this is what I did and this is how we made it happen you're exactly right they do feel comfortable when they can get a feel for your experience and that comes with a lot of good training with your salespeople and helping them have the solutions for all the problems that we encounter in their training so that they can make the customer feel confident hey that is not much of a problem for us.

Sales Habits That Build Trust

Shannon 57:50

You're you know my advice to shed settlers out there today is be mindful that you're not the only one reading body language. That's right. That's right.

Rolando Castrejon 57:58

The customers reading your language too what is the number one thing that you feel like a uh like with shed settlers what's a do and what's a do not like what is something you see that you say no that don't do that or what's something else that you don't see enough that that that needs to be done more um it's hard to say what is a do not because I see people have success with so many different things. I've got a friend who will not go outside and talk to the customer until they've finished looking at buildings and are about to drive off and he has done a great job. And then I have people who've said the opposite you know if you're not walking outside and meeting them at the door that customer's gonna get upset and a lot of people do. It's hard for me to say do not because every customer is different. Even to the point of I'm gonna say this in kind of a funny way of catching an attitude with the customers because you know in in sales there have always been times where we wanted to smart off and say something to a customer.

Shannon 59:09

No, you can't build it cheaper

Rolando Castrejon 59:12

I had one customer I remember, and I was a brand new salesperson. This was 2010 and uh and he came to the lot and he was showing he was asking questions about a product and I was doing my best to be the most friendly guy in the world and uh and show him everything that I could show him and try to get the sale and uh and I could tell that he was uh he was a northern guy and you know the culture up there is very different than it is down here um and you know with our southern charm and everything. And eventually you know he just he just had an attitude and kept on and almost like he was bullying me. And I just got tired of it and I in my mind I said you know what I don't care about this cell I'm just gonna treat him the way he's treating me. And as soon as I started giving him the attitude back it's like he became my best friend. He was like oh okay okay and and he started joking with me and and giving it you know we're jabbing back and forth and he bought from me. And so, you know you wouldn't necessarily tell people hey if they catch an attitude with you catch an attitude with them. That's a no no but but it worked that day and it was because you know it's again it's just a problem that you got to solve. This customer feels more comfortable not around the southern charm but he feels more comfortable around people who are uh who acting direct and to the point yeah exactly and even to the point of making fun of him and taking jabs at him and he appreciated that that I was doing that for him like he was doing it to me. And so, you know it's hard to say what not to do I mean I guess probably the only thing not to do is um you know don't see the customers as just uh when you sell it, you're done um because I I've seen people in the industry and they do the sale they put it away they never think about that person again. You need to think of each customer like a potential friend. And um and when you create those relationships with these friends in your community then those people are going to tell other people about you and uh and send people your way because they had a good experience with you because uh you made sure that that um that you gave them what you told them you were going to and made sure that they were happy with everything. So, that's definitely uh a don't is don't treat it like a cell treat every person like an individual and somebody who's coming to you because like you said that's a lot of times that's people's third biggest purchase and uh and for us it's um this week's paycheck uh but for them it's a lot of times one of the biggest things they'll buy in their life and so it's a lot bigger of a moment for them than it is for us and as salesmen we have to understand that and uh and make sure that we are you know take that into consideration when we're talking to them.

Shannon 1:01:57

So, well said I don't know that I could end on a better note. I think that's brilliantly said um if you've experienced buying a shed you know that I actually bought one recently you know uh I guess I always say joke and say we buy a lot of them from the from a rentals company but for me to buy one personally that's way different. And yeah you get that experience just like buying anything else a car or something that you care about that you are going to spend a lot of time in you know uh I had a gentleman tell me always spend good money on a mattress and shoes because you're gonna spend a lot of time there yeah go cheap somewhere else you know but uh always do well I would say the same for a shed you know uh like it is a big purchase so like make sure you're taking your time and for us that means taking our time to listen and to problem solve.

Mentors, Integrity, And Final Thanks

Rolando Castrejon 1:02:44

Any final thoughts any shout outs to any companies any people who've just been uh a along your journey along the way products services that have helped out uh people uh or even uh you know if a customer comes across here and finds a back link to here you know what would you want even them to know or your salespeople to know just final thoughts be with you um probably I'm not gonna name any product or anything but I uh I mentioned him a couple times before but I have a friend who's been in the industry for about 40 years Mr. Kenny and um and just been a real mentor to me in the industry and anytime I've had an issue or a problem I can always go to him for advice and um and you know he's been that rock there for me. And uh when I went through the hard times and then starting a business um I really feel like God put him in my life to help guide me and uh several other people uh that that God put in my life because we can't do much on our own. And initially like most guys do I tried to do things on my own and I found out really quickly that this world isn't built that way uh we'll quickly get run over. But if you if you have good integrity in everything you do whether it's selling to a customer or doing the paperwork and the accounting behind the scenes if you always have a lot of integrity and uh and do the right thing put your trust in God then he's going to put people in your life he's gonna make a way when uh when you can't figure it out um so that you can get through things that are difficult and get to where God needs you to be man so well said yeah well uh thank you know Mr.

Shannon 1:04:40

Kenny because that you've given opportunities for folks like myself to also be in this because there's been so many great people come you know before us that we just kind of get to stand on the shoulders of giants as they say and uh you know they've done they've done a lot so much of the heavy lifting and give us an opportunity to be here selling or doing whatever it is we're doing podcasting marketing rent to own products it doesn't matter all the things that you do uh there's some people who's put in a lot of hard work uh to help build this industry and we thank them and we're just gonna do our best to carry the torch uh as the next generation shows up I've enjoyed this thoroughly Rolando and I do I appreciate you so much for uh you know being willing to come on and heeding the call and just stepping out in confidence and learning a little bit more about what podcasting looks like and it's a lot it's a lot less worrisome than people realize it's uh it's a it's a campfire storytelling atmosphere we just sit around and chat and talk and you know what if you got a business if you've got a service you want to push out there that's fine uh you know we can't please them all Rolando I've literally gotten uh uh I'm gonna call it fan mail uh it's email but I'm gonna call it fan mail uh you know we've gotten fan mail from people that said uh you know wish you wouldn't have so many advertisers on I want to hear other people's stories only to be backed up by someone who says hey I appreciate you introducing me to that product uh you should do more of that we try to make them all happy we know we can't we believe in everyone in the industry whether it's a shed seller shed hauler a manufacturer service provider a product provider the steel side I mean it's really grown to where now you see steel and carports and chicken coops and all you know just everything that complements what we do uh then it's kind of hard to draw a clear line in who the perfect guest is and we don't want to mimic everything the same way we want to have different people on with uh with different diversive ideas and you know that's why everyone is welcome everyone is welcome you know so it I appreciate you coming on I'd like to get to know you I hope you'll be at the Shed show in Knoxville I don't know if you will but if so come check me out at the booth if not maybe next time we get out to North Carolina I can swing by and say hello I'd love to meet you in person. Sounds good we'll set that up well listen I appreciate you so much for being on today it really does mean a lot and I wish you nothing but success in your endeavor sir.

OUTRO 1:07:14

Thank you I appreciate it thank you for listening to another episode of the Shed Geek podcast. A quick thank you to our studio sponsor ShedPro head over to shedpro.co forward slash shed geek and take their free shed sales audit. It takes just a few minutes and it gives you a clearer picture of what's going on underneath thank you for listening as always and thank you Shed Pro for being this year's Wednesday studio sponsor on the Shed Geek podcast