Dead Things, Dirty Water & Doggy Daycares: Thursday Stories Pool Pros Never Forget

This week on the Talking Pools Podcast, Wayne Ivusich and Steve Sherwood take listeners on a journey through some of the strangest, funniest, and most unforgettable experiences pool professionals encounter in the field. What begins as a discussion about a pool overrun with frogs quickly evolves into a collection of stories that highlight the reality of working around water every day. 

Wayne and Steve invite listeners to share the weirdest things they have ever discovered in skimmer baskets and pool systems, leading to stories involving snakes, squirrels, possums, underwear, rodents nesting beneath winter covers, and even a horse that found its way through a safety cover and into a swimming pool. The conversation is both humorous and educational, reminding listeners that no two days in the pool industry are ever the same. 

The episode then shifts to a more serious discussion about water clarity and swimmer safety. Wayne recounts a tragic real-world drowning incident in a cloudy public pool, emphasizing why clear water is not simply an aesthetic goal but a critical life-safety requirement. The hosts discuss why operators should never compromise visibility standards and why maintaining proper filtration and water chemistry remains one of the most important responsibilities in aquatic operations. 

Steve also addresses the growing trend of misleading social media pool "miracle fixes" and viral videos that promise instant water recovery through tablets or additives. The hosts explain why proper pool chemistry does not work that way and encourage listeners to be skeptical of products that appear too good to be true. 

In this week's insurance segment, Steve is joined by Pat from California Pool Association Insurance Services to continue their discussion about a unique consulting project involving pools at a doggy daycare facility. The conversation explores liability concerns, insurance requirements, hold-harmless agreements, commercial pool responsibilities, and the challenges of maintaining aquatic facilities that are operated by people whose primary focus is animal care rather than water management. The discussion provides valuable insight for service companies considering unusual or high-liability clients. 

The second half of the episode dives deep into robotic pool cleaners, filtration systems, and service efficiency. Steve explains why robotic cleaners have become essential tools for modern pool professionals, discusses the pros and cons of suction-side, pressure-side, corded, and cordless cleaners, and shares how automation can dramatically improve service quality while reducing labor hours. The hosts also discuss customer expectations, communication, and the importance of establishing clear responsibilities between pool professionals and facility operators. 

Finally, Wayne and Steve discuss professional education, the value of Certified Pool Operator (CPO) training, and opportunities for experienced professionals to become CPO instructors themselves. The conversation highlights how education improves safety, builds confidence, creates additional revenue opportunities, and helps elevate professionalism throughout the industry. 

Topics Covered

•  Weirdest things ever found in skimmer baskets 
•  Wildlife encounters in swimming pools 
•  Pool safety and water clarity 
•  Real-world drowning prevention lessons 
•  Social media pool chemistry myths 
•  Doggy daycare pool liability concerns 
•  Insurance and hold-harmless agreements 
•  Commercial pool management challenges 
•  Robotic pool cleaners and automation 
•  Sand filters vs. cartridge filters 
•  Customer expectations and communication 
•  CPO certification and instructor training 
•  Building a stronger pool service business 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Happy Thursday, everybody, and welcome to the Talking Pools Podcast, Thursday edition with Steve and Wayne. I hope everybody had a good week. I over here on the East Coast, it's been a rainy two weeks, it seems. Well, Ever Stop Raining. I, you know, one of those 40-day, 40-night kind of deals, I think. But but some someday it will happen that we'll actually see that big yellow thing in the sky. How about you guys out on the West Coast? What what are you going through out there?

SPEAKER_04 0:28

So we have a lot of like weird stuff going on, not with weather. The weather's here is the same every day. It's cloudy and it's cloudy, and it's I mean, you know, you get the June gloom here, right? So we're almost in, we're almost in we're gonna be in June by the time this this podcast comes out. Um so every day in the morning it is super overcast, and then by like 12 or 1 o'clock the marine layer burns off, and then it's sunny, and then it gets super, super, super windy. Yeah. So it goes from like I think yesterday it was like a 25 gusting 32 miles per hour or something like that. And this this is probably gonna be old news at this point, but there was like an oil spill that happened over Memorial Day weekend in the East LA River. So, like you know, we live in Long Beach, so basically, all the shit that comes down from Pasadena and from LA and East LA, there's these fake rivers that they've made, you know, these man-made basically corridors, and it takes literally the shit and the piss and all the toxic stuff, and it just drains it right into our waterways. So there was an oil spill uh because of like a main break, and then you also heard about that that chemical tank from that aerospace company in Gordon Grove. That was big news. Thank God they're saying that it's not gonna blow up now. Yeah, then they have to evacuate like 60,000, 40 or 50,000 people. I mean, that's a that's a lot, that's a lot of people. And for us, we if it happened in the afternoon, we'd be fine because the wind is blowing, we're right at the beach, so it would blow away from us. But if it happened at night when there's no wind, or you know, after before after the wind starts, then now sometimes the wind comes backwards and it comes at you. So that was a it was a scary few days, just kind of uh, and it's weird, just like living life, just being like, is there gonna be like a huge boom soon? You know, because they're like, this thing is either gonna leak out or it's gonna or it's gonna bust. Yeah or it's gonna blow, you know. So and then you have like these firefighters that gotta go on these ladders and go check the temperature and stuff every 30 minutes while they're thinking this thing might blow. Like I wouldn't wish that job on anybody.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

So, you know, the California, the only living apocalypse movie.

SPEAKER_04 2:39

Exactly. And the most regulated, and apparently the most regulated state in the in the country, right? Yeah, um, but you know, sh shout out to all the you know, first responders and and firemen and policemen and all those people that that take care of us because they they really do a good job. They did start complaining now. They're complaining now that it's not gonna blow up. Now they're saying, well, we wasted millions of gallons of water. It's like, what the fuck did you think we were gonna do? You know, like we're trying to they're trying to bring the temperature down with this thing. So jeez.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

I thought we'd start off with uh something a little bit different for Steve and I. Uh as you know, we in the talking pools group, we talk behind your backs all the time. And we we message each ourselves probably 24-7, it seems, some days. And recently one of us uh had not Steve or I, but but one of us, one of the moderators, had an experience with getting rid of a whole bunch of frogs in a pool, a customer's pool. We're talking like a like a yeah a biblical proportion level of frogs in the pool. And she was concerned about having to to shock it and killing frogs and and things like that. And it was kind of a we're sorry it happened, but in a funny, funny way, it was very funny. Uh but it got me to thinking that, you know, we see some strange things in pools. I know not just the two of us, but many of you out there, uh probably all of you out there have seen something kind of weird going, what kind of deal? And it got me to thinking about a question. And the question is, what was the strangest thing that you've ever pulled out of a skimmer basket at a pool? Okay, what was the strangest thing? And and before Steve and I get started, you know, yeah, if you want to email your strange things, please do so to talkingpools at gmail.com and Steve and I will pick the weirdest one and we'll send you a uh we'll send you a little thank you gift. But um, when I first started with uh Taylor back in the early, very early 90s, one of the things that they asked me to do so I became more familiar with the industry is that I became the pool boy for the owner of Taylor's 350,000 gallon pool on his property. It used to be a uh CYO day camp. In fact, I think I went there when I was a kid at one point.

SPEAKER_04 5:00

350,000 gallons?

SPEAKER_02 5:02

350,000 gallon pool. Big, big ass pool, VAP. And so um, but it was it was pretty well maintained by the person in front of me. And and so, you know, I was learning basic things, you know, not just chemicals and things like that, but how to clean it, how to, you know, just generally everything a pool guy would do. And of course, one of the things is you gotta pull up the skimmer baskets and empty them every now and then. Well, the there were actually two that was two that were probably the weirdest things. Where he was located was in the middle of a forest. So you had your you know, your snakes, too many snakes. And I'm not a good snake person at all. It's you open up and you scream like a little like a little kid. But uh a lot of snakes, uh, a couple poisonous ones like water moccasins and things like that. So you treat them very respectfully, and they most times they were alive too. They weren't dead. I pulled out squirrels. Oh god, one time there was a baby possum. That was awful. But you know, the the the one time I pulled out underwear, okay, ladies' underwear from from a skimmer basket. And I thought, okay, this is a pool. This is not necessarily a hot tub, but just weird stuff like that. But you know, I'm not the pool guy that's going out every day and and and working on pools. I was there just uh to learn for a brief period of time for like six, seven months. What about you, Steve? What what have you found that's been kind of funny and weird and kind of kind of dealing with it?

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Did they pay did they pay you extra for that or was that part of your job? Yeah. So duties as required, I think.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

Of course, of course, free yeah, free labor, right? Right. So I've been in the pool industry a while, right? So there's been a lot of different things. And if we're going like weird, I've had where, and I always say, if you're gonna close the pool, you know, make sure that it's spotless. Right. Before you put the cover on. And do people do that? Do people put half the cover on and then leave it for days? Of course they do, right? So it's you know, to do people, you know, one of the springs pops off, you know, did does someone say anything? No, of course not. So I've had it happen where, you know, we and not just in the skimmer, where we've like opened a cover and there's like rats in there that's like having babies and stuff. So now you've got like a bunch of mice just flying all over the place, right? I've also had where, you know, we used to work in New Jersey, so Colt's neck is down at the Jersey Shore there. And there's a lot of places that they're not huge properties, but if you have animals like horses and stuff on your property, you get certain kinds of tax exemptions. So, like if you house one horse on your place, now you're a farm, right? So I had one time where someone called me and there was a the horse had gotten over the gate. And, you know, I know that loop lock has that elephant on the, you know, we've all seen that picture before. And that's a brand new fucking cover. If we have one that's like a little bit stretched and a little bit old and whatever, like elephants going through that.

SPEAKER_07 8:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

So you see where this is going. Yes, absolutely. Um so they called and they were like, hey, our horse is is stuck in the cover in the pool. And I was like, okay, I'm like, what what do you want me to do about it?

SPEAKER_02 8:35

How do you quote that price, right?

SPEAKER_04 8:37

So I mean, you know, they just wanted to let me know. They did send me a picture of it. I don't think I have it anymore, but it was pretty hilarious because the you know, thank God the horse didn't get hurt. Yeah. Um, but it was it was pretty pretty freaked out, obviously. But they had to call animal control and you know, have people come and get it, and they actually had to use like a like a front loader or something, you know, like some sort of a like small, small crane to get it out. And then like the nastiest stuff, because we do a lot of commercial pools.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

I can imagine.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

So one time I picked up a new client and they were like, Hey, we don't want to freak you out, but somebody died a few days ago in the spa. And we were like, they were like, should we drain the water? Like, should what should we do? And I was like, you know, this thing is like an 800-gallon spa, a thousand-gallon spa. I'm like, let's let's just fucking drain it, right? Like, let's let's let's drain it and clean it and you know, do a spa purge or whatever. Um, if you guys aren't up on the spa purges, this is another way that you guys can make money as an extra. And spa purge, I'm pretty sure it's made by natural chemistry. It's a little bit of a pain in the ass because you, it's, you know, it it creates a lot of uh foam and bubbles and stuff. So like if you just blase blah do it and fill the fill it back up, you're gonna have a fucking cupcake icing cut, you know, what icing looks like on top of a cupcake. Um, but if you do it right and you have the time to do it, and this is why we charge, you know, Bucku Bucks to do it, it's not something that's included in the service by any means, but once a year we will, you know, drain the sp, you know, before we drain the spa, we'll put in this spa purge stuff, and it's like a colon cleanse for the for the lines of the of the you know of the spa itself. So that is that's super helpful, especially in commercial spas, because once you get that you know that brown color that gets on the the white VGB covers and stuff?

SPEAKER_06 10:26

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

You know what that is, right? Oh yeah, dead skin cells and all that stuff. Oh yeah. And then we'll leave it at this, but the war you know, the nastiest thing that I found is a condom in there. So that was amazing.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Used or not used.

SPEAKER_04 10:42

Uh yeah, I didn't I I didn't ask. But that's why I also like you know, I I also use the Venom Steel, you know, double double walled gloves, too. And like they have a great deal on them at Costco and stuff, and they they work really well. And I actually earlier today I just went up and trained one of my guys on how to do a commercial spa filter cleaning, and I was like, you have your gloves? And he was like, Huh? Like, you don't carry gloves with you, man. I'm like, I have gloves with me all the time. Like I have a mask in my car, I have gloves in my car, I got like uh, you know, glasses in my car, I got the I got the whole nine. And I and I don't do this shit anymore. I'm not the one actually out there, you know, cleaning the cartridges most of the time. But it's just super important to make sure that you're you know you're taking care of yourself. So these you know, these cartridge filters are super nasty. It's got all gunk and grime and whatever in there. So you want to make sure that you're taking care of yourself and and being safe out there is really really what it comes down to.

SPEAKER_02 11:38

Yeah. I I you're you're you talked about somebody dying in the spa, one of your uh custom of your camps. I remember that uh in my CPO class when I when I teach it, we talk about cloudiness and pool water and what are some of the origins and why it's important to you know get rid of it because you can't see things. The lifeguards can't really see well under the water when it's really cloudy. And I always bring up the story of a mother and daughter. This was in Connecticut, it's probably 30 years ago now. They were in Connecticut, went to their local community pool. Uh, both of them went into the water in the deep end. The pool water was cloudy, and uh, but they didn't know. They didn't know, they thought it was okay. Everybody else was in the pool. Daughter gets daughter gets out of the pool, goes sits down in the chair, mom doesn't come back. Daughter's looking for her, mom can't find her, and she figures well, maybe she went back home. They didn't live far away, so she went back home. Right? Mother's not home. Daughter goes back to the pool, which had by that time closed for the day. And one of the lifeguards was still around, you know, just kind of clean up and straighten up and whatnot. And she said, you know, I can't find my mom. And I she said, Before I called the police, I just want to make sure she didn't fall down or something inside the restroom. Well, it turns out the water was so cloudy, the woman had drowned. And instead of floating to the surface, she sank to the bottom right and had the main drain kind of you know pulled her in. This is well before BGB. So she was just lying on the on the on the bottom. Nobody saw her for two days. Two days. Yeah. So talk about your dead bodies in the water chase.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Roo Roo, the insurance interlude, part two of our doggy saga interlude here. So, Pat, thanks so much again for uh listening to all the crazy fucking stories that we have that come out of Southern California, man.

SPEAKER_05 13:44

All good. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

So, all right, so I told you last week about these doggy day tears that had me come out and do consulting for them, and they basically were like, hey, we want to know what it's gonna take to get our pools, if we want to call them pools, they're just in-text things up and running. So you talked a little bit about, you know, having them be the ones to install it per se, or try and install it. You could always come to the rescue or whatever, but like hands-on installing kind of puts you in a weird position if anything were to were to happen. But you're saying servicing the pool is is pretty much okay, you know, and then also with the bonding and grounding, like none of the pumps are bonded and grounded, all of the pumps are plug-in, so they're not hardwired by any means. Obviously, all of that stuff has to get changed to up to code because, you know, and I would even go as far as to say, you know, changing whatever drain covers they have to retrofitting them to like the Aquastar hockey puck VGB covers and stuff like that. Because whether you're a residential pool or a commercial pool, like all of this stuff needs to get done no matter what, right? So these are the things that I'm trying to, you know, cross off the list for them. But I want to know a little bit more about the the hold harmless, you know, and like they obviously, as a doggy daycare center, they must have a bunch of hold harmlesses where you know, your dog comes in, and you know, these are dogs. So like some of these dogs are pretty vicious. And you know, if your dog bites another dog, like you're gonna be on the hook for that dog's uh vet bills or you know, whatever. There's there's gotta be a bunch of bylines that are on that. And normally you don't want to like scare away your clients because they read this and they're like, what the you know, like well, we're we're we're responsible for everything. But you know, you write all different types of companies. Like, do you write any doggy daycares? Like, what does their insurance look like? Do I do I need to ask them any questions to be like, hey, like what type of insurance do you have for X? Because, like, again, if something happens like between dogs or between dogs and an owner, or you know, what happens if a dog drowns? Yeah. In the pool, you know, like am I like am I responsible for that shit?

SPEAKER_05 16:04

Look, I it's highly likely that there would at least be two dogs fighting at some point in this.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

No, no, no, shit. My god, yeah. I would uh I would assume so, right? Like, definitely.

SPEAKER_05 16:16

So, you know, so look, I would certainly I would say, listen, you know, like, and look, always blame the insurance guy. Just be like, look, my insurance company would like to see if you can give me, you know, if you can give me your a certificate of insurance showing your coverage, like, oh, I don't have any insurance coverage. Like, okay, are you gonna get any? Like, well, we weren't planning on it. At that point, probably that tells you what you need to know.

SPEAKER_04 16:36

And my one foot's out the door as we speak, and it if I if I step in or step out, hinges on these next few interludes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 16:46

Exactly. So look, and it's totally, totally legit, right? They're gonna have like these these types of uh, you know, animal camps, whether it's horses, dogs, the whole ball of wax. We we we've we've done several all across the board. It's very similar to just a veterinary, you know, or uh even like a petco kind of overnight dog thing. Sure. So so yes, they're common policies, they're not hard to get. Like if they have their own policy, and then you say, look, I need to be added as additionally insured.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

But I also need to be held harmless. Like, so how does that how does that work?

SPEAKER_05 17:18

Exactly. So additionally insured, primary non-contributory, these are on all policies, almost all policies normally. That means their insurance will kick in and be primary, and yours is not going to contribute anything if they're at fault. So there's a couple things to ask for in addition to the uh additional insured. You know, the whole harmless has got to be more thought of more of on the, you know, on the business front versus the insurance front, right? Um so you know, we certainly have have helped and have some templates for like when you drain a pool or acid wash a pool. We've got you know some templates that we built, you know, obviously look, get get a lawyer, make sure you're comfortable with it type of thing. But hold harmless needs to be thought of as a business thing versus an insurance thing. Sure. And if I were, you know, if I would think that that would be reasonable, where it's like, look, there's a million things that could happen wrong here. And since I'm on property, you know, like I don't want to be held liable unless it's something that I screw up or somebody I injure or an animal that I injure because yeah, unless it's gross negligence on our part.

SPEAKER_04 18:16

And and I have signed contracts where it is said that before, and that's why with my guys, I'm so like you cannot leave the water on. You cannot leave the backwash on forever. Like, you cannot do, you know, certain things where it's just and I've had other stuff happen too, where like uh, you know, I have some pools in other states, and like my guy left one, you know, these are 250,000 gallon pools, and the guy left the backwash valve open like a tiny bit, you know, and over the course of the next week the pool just drained down and nobody said anything. We come back to a fucking empty pool the next week. Like if something were to happen to that pool or it popped out or something, like we would totally be held liable for that, you know. But most of the time with the hotels and stuff, like it doesn't even get to get that far because they're like, look at that leak, you know, it's leaking, and I fucking pull somebody off of their day to go there for an emergency visit. Yeah, and I go and I'm like, is it gonna drip? And then it's like, drip, and then it's like 10 seconds before it drips again. And I'm like, guys, this is the stuff like I do appreciate you, you know, coming and telling us whatever problems that you have, but this is not some stuff that I need to pull a guy off of his day to come. Like we could call, you know, we're gonna be back the day after tomorrow. Like, that's not a big deal, you know? Yeah, so okay, so I need some sort of hold harmless, which you say lawyers can help best with, but you can probably help me with this too, maybe.

SPEAKER_05 19:47

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, we and then it's not specific to this, it's one of the uh first times I've heard of something like this, but uh can cross this.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

We can talk that we can cross this doggy bridge together, Pat.

SPEAKER_05 19:58

Totally.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

So, okay, so my next question is they want us to service the pool. The pools haven't been serviced, and and it doesn't really matter because again, they're basically gonna get all new pools if they if they go for it and have brand new stuff and and whatever. So we start at ground zero, we get all the the code stuff that we need for, you know, what considering it's a hey, a residential pool or whatever. So does it mat like because and I asked one of my commercial builders, like I use a commercial builder where if we needed to do like a plan check or you know, put in some sort of a design or something like that, like these are the guys that you go to and they can take care of all of that stuff. They're the most knowledgeable people. And they laugh. I told them I was like, You're the most knowledgeable guy in commercial pools that I know. So that's why I called you. And he was like, Good luck with that. He was saying that like it it falls under under like a specialty pool. And in that aspect, now, like uh with servicing it, like he was like, You should talk to like somebody who's like a dog biologist, or you know, because having dogs in the pool, like one having one dog in the pool, I don't know what the number is offhand, but it's something create more than 10 people at once, as far as like hair and you know, body stuff and just uh, you know, whatever. Like these dogs are dogs are pretty dirty, right? Yeah, so they're gonna get a bunch of stuff into the water that's then gonna go into the filter and all that. So they were servicing the pool, Pat, on a bi-monthly basis, right? So like once every couple weeks they were coming and like checking out the pool. I told them that that was basically unacceptable. That like I told them a couple of the hotels and you know, resorts that we have here and whatever in Southern California. And I was like, we're going to those places like three, two to three times a week, you know. I was like, there's no way that we can, you know, come to you once every other week. I was like, once a week would be the bare minimum, and I might come back and tell you that that's. That's not even enough. Like, we need to come, we need to come twice a week. And I was like, furthermore, I was like, we can't be the only ones that are touching the pool. Like, I either you either need to pay me to come train you and show you how to test the water. And like, these are the things that you can, you know, if you guys go out and people want training, like it is easy for you to set up some sort of a piece of paper that says, hey, if the chlorine, your pool is this big, if the chlorine is at this, put in this. If the chlorine is this, put in this, you know, and that's something that like it's like a book that we make for our clients that they obviously pay for. And, you know, we make logbooks and we make a bunch of different things, but it's another way to really diversify your business. But is there something that we can say other than the hold harmless, specifically? Like, we're only here one day a week or two days, we're gonna be here two days a week. Like, you guys are really the ones that are responsible for the for the proper maintenance of of this facility, you know? And part of the problem, Pat, is that the hotel engineers, like, there's usually a big group of them. If you work for the JW or like a Hilton or something like that, like they might have engineering departments that have like 17 to 50 guys.

SPEAKER_06 23:22

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Because they're fully staffed all the time. And they have certain guys that do electrical stuff, they have certain guys that do HBAC stuff, they have certain the one guy that does the pool. My issue is as you get into the HOAs, now that one or two guys that you have on staff is now the plumber, the electrician, the pool guy, you know, landscaper. Everything, right? So, like my you know, and now as you go to a doggy daycare, now these people's jobs, they got 11 hats on, right? Like they're the shit cleaner and they're the washer downer, they're the dog bather on Wednesdays. They might be doing aerobics with the dog and rehabs on one day. I saw their schedule. It's like every other, it's like soccer on Mondays, like rehab on Tuesdays, like agility rehab on Tuesdays. So, like these people that work there, man, like they want to be veterinarians and veterinarians assistants. Like, I don't think any of these people, yeah. I don't think that any of these people are going into this job being like, oh yeah, I want to be a pool guy.

SPEAKER_06 24:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

So, like, how you know, how do I navigate having them, you know, be on board? I guess like in the contract, I just have to say that like you guys either you have to take CPO or you, you know, you have to get trained by us. But like this shit's becoming expensive for them. And I, you know, not that I I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna do it for a little bit of money. That's my point. But my also my point is like uh at some point too, like I I know and realize that like this does become a lot of money. Like, you need to buy three new Intex pools with one of them needs, you know, multiple sand filters and like variable speed pumps. Like, we are easily into the tens of tens of thousands of dollars, you know?

SPEAKER_05 25:14

So yeah, look, I think to it, you know, in a nutshell, make sure they got their own insurance policy, make sure you get yourself added to it, additional insured, primary non contributory, waiver of subrogation. You you always should have a service contract for this and for anything, right? And service contracts, I know you you've had one for forever, and it's just gonna clearly define the scope of work, what to expect, when to expect it, how much it costs, if there's any sort of whole harmless agreements in there, waiver of liability, that's where you would put that in the service contract document. You know, and you made mention on the whole harmless, and I've seen them, I've seen them a variety of different ways. I mean, what's fair is when they cut both ways, right? Like you you made mention, if I screw up, I'm on the hook for it. If you screw up, you're on the hook for it. You know, I've seen them plenty where it's like, if I screw up, you're on the hook, and if you screw up, you're on the hook, and and vice versa, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:06

No, and I've had those before where they've they've tried to to do that, and it basically says, like, it doesn't matter what happens. Like, if we if if we decide that you're responsible, you're responsible. Yeah, yeah. That's like what the fuck does that mean? You you like you can't determine if I'm responsible. Like the you know, the court has to determine who's at fault here.

SPEAKER_05 26:26

But like it's just be mindful of that stuff. Whenever you get one put in front of you is the main point, right? So you do all that, they you know, agree that they're gonna spend the money to upgrade all this stuff, then then yeah, it's for the right dollar. I think it I think it would make sense. But certainly, you know, I yeah, it your guard's up. I can tell. I've known you for a long time. I would have my guard up too for sure. It's just, and you know what it is, Pat.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

Like, if if these people off the street called me and said, Hey, we have this doggy daycare with this in-text pool, and they sent me some pictures, I would be, I would call back and I would be like, Thanks so much for reaching out. We really appreciate you, you know, finding us. And uh, but but no, like we we're not gonna do that. But it's because it's this other vendor that that they work with that that's their client, and I work with them, and like the potential with them is is pretty high because they work with a lot of company, they work with a lot of companies, not just doggy daycares. It's just so happens that like you know, this doggy daycare is basic, and I don't know if I told you the situation, but basically they sold it. And now the new owner works with this this vendor person, and you know, she brought them to me and she was like, Hey, I know that you you've done good work in the past for us. Like, I you know, I'm wondering if you could help them out, but like, you know, even bringing in an electrician now, I gotta bring in an electrician because like uh everything that the it only goes into an outlet, and like we need to have you know full power there where it's where it's uh not plug-in.

SPEAKER_05 28:03

So it's a big job for sure. But you know, look, if they're willing participants, I think that's probably well, that's probably the decision maker if I'm in your shoes. If they're willing participants to get everything, you know, to code and and and follow all the instructions for you know what's required and what makes it safe and is is okay with holding you harmless and releasing liability for things that aren't your fault, then yeah, you know, it's it's certainly something that I I if if any of that was no, then I would be a no myself. But you know, if it's all online, then it's it's above board.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

I think that this is uh an easy no for for us, obviously. Um I would love to, you know, I'm a big believer in karma for sure. So I always try and go the extra mile, even if it's not gonna, and I told the manager, I was like, look, I'm like, we might not be your pool company, actually. Like the numbers might not match up for us to be your weekly service company. But I was like, but I do want to get you these reports and I do want to tell you what you need to do, and you know, so you can at least be educated. But I was like, no matter who becomes your pool company, like they're not just gonna be the end all say all, like you guys are gonna be here six days a week or four days a week, and we're gonna be here one or two days a week.

SPEAKER_06 29:13

Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:13

You know, so it just also depends like how many doggy daycare is expensive. So, like, how many doggy days are you willing to give up to to pay this pool company? And that's that's really what the what it comes down to. So, Pat, thank you so much for always coming on with us and shedding light on this weird dog shit that we have, right? You see what I did there. So, guys, if you're looking for insurance and you have questions, um reach out to California Pool Association. They don't just do California, they do all of the states, and uh they have great people who can answer all of your questions. And literally, if you reach out to us, I mean, Pat, he's always gotten back. He's always gotten someone to get back to that person within a day or two. So, like if you you got some questions, we got answers for you. And if you come on board with them for an annual uh liability insurance subscription, you get $100 off for the year just by mentioning the Talkin' Pools podcast. So, guys, thank you so much for listening in. Pat, we're gonna be talking at you next week. So, woof woof. Have a good one, guys. Thanks, Steve. See you everybody.

SPEAKER_01 30:14

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SPEAKER_00 31:58

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SPEAKER_04 32:23

If you can't see the main drain in the pool, don't open the pool. You know, and if the water is cloudy, like something's wrong. It's either something's wrong with your you know, filtration or your water balance. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

And that's basic, that's basic stuff that you should be doing.

SPEAKER_04 32:38

Right. But you know, these homeowners associations and hotels, they they really push the limit of hey, they shit in the pool, like we can open it up in a in a half hour, even though there's diarrhea in there. And it's like, no, you can't. You know, so I always tell everybody like it doesn't matter what this shit looks like in the pool, like treat it like diarrhea.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Right.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

You know, or always err on the side of caution with all of this stuff because your your job and your liability and you know, people's safety is the the main priority. And it's like just shock it to 20 parts per million and we'll see you tomorrow. Like it's not it's not it's not a big deal.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:15

Yeah. I know that there was something something so that let me three steps back. So, like I said, if you guys have any stories or anything you want to share to us is what you found in pool water or skimmer uh skimmer baskets and whatnot over the years, and you'd like to share that with us, talkingpools at gmail.com. It will get to the two of us. We'll go over everything, and like I said, if you mention we talk about it on the air, we'll send you a nice little present. But but the other thing that just popped into my head, I don't know if it's on Instagram or whether it's on TikTok. I kind of want to lean towards TikTok. But there's this company out there that that supposedly makes an effervescent pill tablet. I don't know what you want to call it, that if your water is like really crappy looking for whatever particular reason, you throw like seven or eight of these tablets in the pool, and all of a sudden the pool bubbles up and it effervesces and it gets foam and the pool's fixed within minutes. And I'm looking at it and going, No, you know, chemistry doesn't quite work like that, at least pool water chemistry. And I wasn't the only one that caught this. A lot of people, a lot of people I knew in the industry caught the same thing. It's like, this is so fake, this is so AI, it just doesn't exist. All they want to do is make money on this particular product. But it was kind of funny to see how they generated the little video of it. You know, you see a woman all dressed up very nicely in some casual summer clothes, without gloves, reaching into a bucket to both hands, picking up like a whole handful of these tablets and then just throwing them into the pool. And within seconds, the pool comes and effervesces, and everything moves out of the way, and the pool within a minute becomes beautiful again.

SPEAKER_03 35:09

Snake oil. That's all it that's all it takes.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

That's all it takes. Yeah, that we don't need that job anymore now.

SPEAKER_04 35:17

So, Wayne, let's talk about some stuff that's not snake oil. So, you know, a few episodes ago, I talked a little bit about leak detection and I talked about you know robot like how much we love robotic vacuum cleaners. And if you guys haven't checked it out yet, uh it is there's still until the middle of June, APER, APER, right? That uh that cordless vacuum company. If you go to Pool Core and you have a Pool Core account, uh, you can actually sign up for an APER, you know, sign up to their stuff. And once you do their welcome gift to you is a free cordless vacuum. And I don't know, I in my garage, I I probably have three or four demo vacuums that are just sitting there just waiting for me to get a new client. And as soon as I get it, I'm like, here, try this out. And when I was in New Jersey, you know, the Fluidra JD PB4 booster pumps were king. You know, most all of the pools had been built with that in mind, uh, where you have the booster pump and you have the you know the Polaris 360 or 280 or whatever they're called. And those work fairly decently. And what I like about them is it's a pressure, it's called the pressure side cleaner, um, and there's a dedicated port for it. But what I love about it is it has its own vacuum collection bag. What I hate, and I tell you, I absolutely hate them, is the suction side cleaners. And it doesn't matter to me like if it's a $200 one, if it's a $2,000 one. Like you are taking the filter, and the filter has one job to make the water clear for you, to filter it down to X amount of microns and make it nicey nice for you. And every time you vacuum through the system and every time the suction cleaner goes on, you are taking that dirt or leaves or whatever, and you are stuffing it down the filter's throat. Now, you know, the leaves and the rocks, they don't they don't make it to the filter, which I understand. But, you know, now you're gonna have to clean the filter more often. And you guys that make, you know, are making your money, your extra cash flow on your filter cleanings, God bless you. But like I don't, I just you know, I told you I just I just cleaned a cartridge filter today. Like I had to shower before I came on the show. You know, like I showered last night, I went to work, and then I showered as soon as I got home. Um, because like I there's just blows shit all over the place. And like I that's why we use sand filters, and like that's that's an episode for another day. I'm a big sand filter guy. But if all the you know, what what did the the pool at your boss's house have?

SPEAKER_02 37:56

It was a two high-rate sand filters.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Of course. Pardon? Of course it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:03

Because all big commercial pools have fucking sand filters because they're the easiest to maintain. You know what I mean? They're the easiest to work with. And don't get me wrong, you know, I of course, but I'm like, you know, do I respect the aqua the Aquastar, the new, you know, the new cartridge filter that they have? Yes. And in Florida, you know, does it work? Sure. But again, we have so many pools and we're so backed up all the time that like it's possible for us to miss filter cleanings, you know. Like I got my guys are working six days a week. They have Sundays off, you know, like we have to do filter cleanings on Sundays now because we're so busy. So I would much rather just backwash the filter and you know, go from there. But regardless, when I moved to California, nobody has those booster pumps. And a lot of people have those suction side cleaners. So my biggest issue with them is that as soon as the filter starts to get a little bit dirt, shit doesn't work.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

Yep. I heard that.

SPEAKER_04 39:10

And I just had one of my clients complain to me, complain to me yesterday, and she's kind of one of my clients that like is a little bit dramatic. Like she actually she was like, why is my and this is a while ago. She was like, why is my pool stained like this? You know, it was never like this. And I was like, so and so. I'm like, let me show you pictures of your pool from last year. I'm like, this has the same, the same fucking staining on it from from last year. Like it's it's just your pool is stained. It's been stained for a while, unless you want us to drain it and acid wash it, which isn't really gonna make it better. Um, the staining is gonna stay there. Like, we're not gonna buy you know a sequestering agent at $100 a gallon or whatever it is. Like that ship already sailed. She literally started crying. She was like, I just don't know. Like, what I just I just don't want it to look like this. I was like, oh my God. So anyway, she my guy went yesterday, and this time of the year in California, like I had just said at the beginning of the episode, it's super, super windy in the afternoons. March, April, and June are the windiest months in California. And basically, because of the way that the earth is rotating, you get this venturi that comes down from San Francisco and it goes all the way down the coast, and then it just rips across Palos Verdes into where we are in Long Beach, and it just goes across LAX and all the way across LA, right? From from left to right. So my guy went there at like uh two o'clock or something, and she texts me at like 9 45 at night, and she said, Steve, your guy came today and the pool looks awful. She literally said awful. Okay. She was like, I know he didn't brush. She's like, I want this fixed. So, you know, I go to our capturing app, because that's literally what we use it for, and I look at the pictures, and I showed her the picture of her pool from the before and after pictures, and she was like, There's no times, there's no date on that. And I was like, Okay, cool, I'll show you the date. Like, it wasn't in the picture, let me show it to you. And uh her pool looked immaculate, you know? It really, it really did. But my my problem is her verbiage is really what it was, you know. And I just said to her, I was like, hey, I was like, it's the the windiest time of the year for us here. It's is it possible that my guy came and he cleaned the pool and he brushed the pool and it got windy afterwards? And uh she was like, I I guess so. Maybe maybe the filters need to be cleaned. And yes, the filters do need to be cleaned, but I'm gonna show you the picture of the pool when my guy left.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

Yeah, that pool is awful.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

Okay, it's terrible. So the pool doesn't look terrible at all. And then I was like, next time I was like, send me pictures of the pool right after he left. So this is the stuff that she this is what she's talking about. And you can see like the staining and stuff that's on there and whatever. It's it's like this is something that a vacuum cleaner, and I've told her before, I I've given her, and some people don't do it. They're like, oh no, the vacuum cleaner's too expensive. Like, if $600 is too expensive for a robotic vacuum cleaner, like uh, what are you what are you doing here? You know, like I really like the Polaris VRX IQs or Alpha IQs. They're quartered vacuum cleaners, they run like about $1,650 retail, and then you add on tax to that. So now you're into the $1,800 bracket, which is a lot of money. Um, but it's got the four-wheel drive. What I like is they give you a two-year warranty. I'm not so impressed with the longevity of them. So I have started to move away from them a little bit. So Fluidra, your product's starting to suck with that. I used to, but yeah, used to buy them all the time. Now I'm, you know, once those go and it becomes a, hey, you have to buy a motor for 750 bucks and you have to buy a cord for 500 bucks and uh whatever it is, you know. Then I say, You're out of warranty. Like, what do you want to do here? Um, and most of the time they'll just say, hey, we're not gonna, we're not gonna get another one. Um, and then I say, hey, but there are these vacuum cleaners that are a little bit on the lower end that you could get and are work, they don't work just as well, but they're they're pretty good. And if you have a pool that's you know 35 feet or less, you could get a Dolphin DX3, Matronics DX3. And it's a corded vacuum cleaner, and it does the same thing. Um, but what I love about them, and they have a DX4, which is like a for a 50-foot cord, and then that once you get into the DX5, yeah, the DX5 and 6s, you're into the same price as the the Uyghur one, right? The Jandy one. I used to hate the cordless vacuums. And the reason being is because no matter who my client is, like if they're really rich or they, you know, or a blue collar person that likes to take care of the pool themselves as well on the off on their off days, they're they're not going to take. Take the cleaner out every day and put it on the charger and then put it back in. Like they're not going to do that five times a week. So that's why for residential pools, I love the corded, just a corded robotic vacuum cleaner is king. And it lives in the pool. You clean it and it makes it's the difference of when it's really windy and it's really blowing sand and dirt and shit all over the place. It's the difference of my guy being there for sometimes an hour and a half, an hour and 40 minutes, to them being in and out of there in under 40 minutes. So we're saving hours and hours and hours of time by you know having these vacuums. So I was running into problems with the commercial clients because all the commercial clients, you have to have ladders and handrails, and there's different things that you need to have for safety in the pool. And I've really become accustomed now. Polaris has the Polaris Freedom vacuum. And like April has these cordless vacuums and stuff. And I love the cordless vacuums for my commercial clients because you can get to the pool and the things charged up. And the first thing you do is you go to the pool and you throw this thing in and you turn it on. Now you go and backwash the filter, you come back, you test the water, you know, start to clean the pool around the vacuum, you clean the vacuum, you take it out, you know what I mean? You put it back on the charger. But it is literally like having a little helper with you. And you know, I I've had guys where they were like, you know, do you brush the pool every visit and stuff? And the and the greatest answer that I've ever heard to that was we brush one wall, one side of the wall each week. So you get a full, you get a full brush throughout the month. And I literally said to my client, Wayne, I was like, if I found out that my service tech actually didn't brush the pool, I would fucking fire him. Like my guys know if you go to a pool, like, and I I've gotten into this argument that, and this is why in our contracts we put that we will clean the, we will vacuum the pool in quotes, if needed. We will leaf net the pool if needed. Because God forbid anybody comes back and says, hey, your guy didn't put the vacuum in today. I can say, well, is the pool not clean? And they're like, no, it looks good. It's just, you know, what are we paying you for? And it's like the contract clearly states that if the pool is dirty, we will vacuum it. But we will always, always, always brush the pool. And like I've got a couple fountains that where nobody even swims in the pool and stuff like that. But once you, you know, brushing the pool is basically just taking everything that is gonna, you know, grab onto the walls and floors and stuff, any sort of algae or anything that's you know, dirt, whatever, and it's gonna move it around and it's gonna put it into suspension, and it's either gonna fall down to the bottom to be vacuumed up tomorrow by the vacuum, or it's gonna go into the filter and it's gonna be backwashed out the next time you backwash. So the single most important thing in my arsenal for all of my guys is to make sure that our clients know that if they want their pool to be clean and clear every single day, they need to have a robotic vacuum cleaner. And if they're, you know, some people are okay with we come on Friday and on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, pool kind of looks like shit. They're like, hey, when's the guy coming back? You know, there's leaves in there and whatever. And this is why I'm always super open, you know, upfront and honest with my clients about my expectations with them that, hey, we're here once a week. You're there seven days a week. So if the pool is cloudy or if it has algae, let me know immediately. And then I can have one of my guys come out, I can pull somebody off their route, I can have somebody in the area, whatever it may be. But if you wait and there's phosphates in the pool and we don't know it yet, and we're there on a Friday, like there could be no chlorine on Sunday. And now there's no chlorine Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and we come back on Friday, the fifth day later, and the pool looks like absolute trash. And you know who's coming back on the weekend? My service tech. You know who's getting charged for it? The client. So, guys, listeners, thank you so much for listening. But we really, really need to just be a little bit more honest and upfront with our clients about the expectations of what you will be taking care of and what they need to take care of. And I always look at, I always tell everyone when I first pick them up, like, I'm here and I'm your pool guy, but like this is actually a partnership. And my hotels, I I tell them this all the time because I I feel like these guys were there three days a week and the pool only gets touched three days a week.

SPEAKER_05 49:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

And that is not the way to do things. And that's why, you know, why we say, hey, you know, you know, we have this training thing here. I know that I'm your CPO, but you guys can also get CPO certified. Can you, you know, you want to take our class? And to be completely honest, like that's how I've gotten most of my commercial business, where they've come through the class and then they were like, oh shit, we really don't, we really don't know what's going on. Can you help us out? And in Los Angeles County, you have to have a Los Angeles County Technician's license, uh, which is, you know, and I think that they're they're trying to move towards CPO, obviously, soon, which would be fantastic. But it's a weird gray area because people will call and they'll be like, hey, I want to get my LA County Technician's license so I can do commercial pools. And I'm like, well, do you actually know that you need it for residential pools too? And they're like, Well, we just need our guy certified, you know? And I'm like, okay, well, he's new, right? And they're like, yeah, he's new. And I'm like, so then don't send him to the LA County Technicians course first. It's a closed book, closed note test. And, you know, it's it's hard to pass. There's stuff you need to memorize. Like, we we need you to know that the cyanric acid needs to be between 30 and 50 and you drain it 100. We need you to know that the pH is between 7.4 and 7.6. We need you to know that the alkality needs to be between 80 and 120. And there's just certain things that we burn into your brain and CPO, because in CPO, I'm saying, hey, new person, here is my hand. I am going to take your hand and I am going to guide you, kicking and screaming, and I'm going to make you into a pool guy. And at the end, you're going to think, is really what it comes down to. And that's why, you know, CPO, and I've talked about this before on earlier shows, it's just so important to make sure that, you know, if you're the owner of your company and you're out there and you're you have guys that are working for you, you want to send them somewhere first to someone who knows what they're doing. You know, so when they come back to you, they have a a little bit of knowledge. I'm not going to say that they're going to, you know, be an expert at testing the water, but like after you test water a thousand times, like you, you could pretty much do it with your eyes closed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 51:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

You know, so these are the things that, you know, really have catapulted our business into the, into the to the next level by just being, you know, super honest and aware of what's going on and just kind of uh, you know, knowing how to handle your your clients no matter who they are. And I realize that like every, you know, you have a hundred clients, now you have a hundred different personalities that you have to deal with. I actually prefer to deal with the commercial guys because it's not their pool. So if you tell them, hey, this thing's broken, we can't fix it, like the distributor's closed on Sunday, like we're not gonna get to it till Monday. They understand. Where that homeowner, they have a party on Sunday, they they might be up your ass about it.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

So clear expectations, honest and upfront.

SPEAKER_02 52:00

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 52:01

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Speaking along the CPO line, I want to put in a little bit of a plug for those of you who are CPOs who listen to us. Way to go, bravo, thank you. Uh, if you've ever thought about becoming a CPO instructor like Steven and myself, there the next instructor's class will be in San Antonio September 21st. Uh no, 20th, 21st, and 22nd. I don't know if I'm going to be part of the teaching cadre yet. That still has to be determined, but it's it's going to be a good class. It's an in-person class. I know we're not doing virtual instructor classes anymore. All has to be in-person. See, see your face, watch what you do, kind of deal. So if you're interested and you want a little bit more information, simply go to phta.org and click on instructors, and and up will come another small menu that will advertise the the course itself. And if you're interested, you can apply apply online. There's a little bit of a couple of forms you got to fill out, got to make sure you got your license, that you've done the POP, and a couple other things. But it it really is beneficial because, particularly for people that own a company like Steve does, who want to make sure that his staff knows what they're doing, right? Yeah, I mean, you you gotta be able to know how to do this stuff. And you as an owner and and who as the owner who is able to convey that information over properly, uh, is invaluable. Uh, it really is. And it's another income stream too, if you ever want to do it deal with it that way. And and some of our instructors do do that. There's a handful of instructors whose job is nothing to do this but teach CPO. But if you again, if you're interested, you can uh go to phta.org or give us an email, pop us an email at talkingpools at gmail.com and we'll go ahead and direct you to the right location. So, with that all being said, gang, appreciate your your time, your valuable time and listening to us ramble on about stuff. Until next time. Uh Steven, thank you. As always, say hi to everybody out there on the West Coast, and we'll be talking to you then. Take care.

SPEAKER_04 54:18

Have a good one.

SPEAKER_02 54:19

Bye.