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Bring Out the Talent: A Learning and Development Podcast
Tune into The Training Associates (TTA) “Bring Out the Talent” podcast to hear from learning and development talent and partners on their innovative approaches and industry insights. In each episode, TTA’s CEO, Maria Melfa, and Talent Manager, Jocelyn Allen will chat with subject matter experts and bring you casual, yet insightful conversations. Maria and Jocelyn use their unique blend of industry experience and humor to interview the L&D industry’s most influential people, latest topics, and powerful stories. Each episode has important takeaways that will help to create a culture of continuous learning within your organization. Tune in as we Bring Out The Talent!
Bring Out the Talent: A Learning and Development Podcast
Creating a Culture of Dignity
A workplace culture rooted in dignity is not merely "a nice to have" but a critical component for attracting and retaining talent, enhancing engagement, and boosting overall performance. The significance of dignity within the corporate landscape is undeniable, with 93% recognizing its critical importance for organizational success.
Although dignity and respect are often considered synonymous, they each play a distinct and vital role in shaping our interactions at work. Understanding the differences between them can profoundly transform our communication, leadership styles, and teamwork.
In this episode of 'Bring Out the Talent,' we're joined by Ralph Campbell, an expert in organizational behavior and the creator of the Dignity Index Assessment. We will explore the differences between dignity and respect, and why these distinctions matter. We'll discuss the challenges leaders face in fostering a culture of dignity and learn how organizations can genuinely integrate these values into their everyday practices. Additionally, we'll dive into how these principles can lead to better communication, stronger teams, and an improved company culture.
Tune in to gain valuable perspectives on nurturing a culture of dignity in the workplace.
Good
SPEAKER_01:morning, Jocelyn. Hi, Maria. Are
SPEAKER_04:you staying warm and cozy? I'm trying.
SPEAKER_03:I am with my mushroom coffee.
SPEAKER_04:Mushroom coffee, guys.
SPEAKER_03:What do you see here for episode two? I talked about it last time, so I kind of woke up in a little fog today, which is funny. I feel like, I don't know, and I was like in my closet, like, what am I doing? I need to pick out my clothes. What is the closet for again? Okay, I'm going downstairs. What am I getting? I need to get my keys. Very slow motion. I don't know why. I think I had some intense dreams or something.
SPEAKER_04:Well, because I had a good night's sleep. I knocked you out in your non-dream life. I understand what that means. Absolutely. Well, you made it here. You look fabulous. I wouldn't have known any better. I don't have shoes on, but... I mean, my shoes didn't make it, but...
SPEAKER_03:In this
SPEAKER_04:weather, come
SPEAKER_03:on. I know. Well, very excited about our topic. And I'm so glad that you brought one of our great resources to us today because it's a very interesting topic, a topic that we don't hear enough about. So let's get started. Today's topic, though not always a main priority, is certainly becoming increasingly more important for organizations aiming to cultivate a positive workplace culture and that is dignity in the workplace. In fact, recent studies found that 95% of respondents see a culture of dignity as a key to attracting and keeping talent. 94% link it to a higher work engagement, and 93% believe it boosts organizational performance. So those are quite high stats. Dignity and respect are often used interchangeably. I wondered myself when I like to learn more about what Ralph has to say on this topic. Yet they hold unique and equally critical places in our workplace interactions. Understanding how they differ can profoundly transform our communication, our leadership styles, and teamwork. So in this episode, we are joined by our friend, and consultant Ralph Campbell, who is an expert in organizational behavior and creator of the Dignity Index Assessment. We'll explore the difference between dignity and respect and why these distinctions matter. We'll discuss challenges leaders face in fostering a culture of dignity and learn how organizations can genuinely integrate these values into their everyday practices. And... Also, finally, and how these principles can lead to a better communication, stronger teams, and of course, an improved company culture. Welcome, Ralph.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for having me, Maria and Jocelyn.
SPEAKER_04:We're very excited, Ralph. the same kind of like foundation, I guess you could say. And when we were talking about this episode, I mean, passionate is not even a word that is strong enough for how you feel about it. I mean, how long the conversation just spiraled in different directions, all because at the core, you were talking about how motivating and how important this subject is for you. So can you elaborate on the fundamentals for us? Like, let's, let's, let's open up the doors. What are the the reason why we said in the intro it's so important to distinguish between the two of them?
SPEAKER_00:Great question. Yes, I am very passionate about dignity because it really speaks to why I do what I do. And so I'd first like to start off by sharing my personal vision statement or my why. And my why is to make gentle the life of this world through honoring each person's value and worth so that together the difference we make for each other can never be erased. And that term, to make gentle the life of this world, comes from Robert Kennedy back when Martin Luther King was assassinated. And that night, there was a lot of rioting in the world. And he said his goal that night was to make gentle the life of this world. And so that's my why. And so dignity supports having that be a possibility in the world. I've been studying conflict for quite some time, and I stumbled upon this term. social construct that we now call dignity when I was looking at different ways to support my clients resolving interpersonal conflict. And so I began to read on different frameworks and I saw the work of Dr. Donna Hicks at Harvard who wrote the book back in 2006. It's called Dignity. And I began to read the book and it really began to change how I saw conflict and what part I can play in the conflict. And one of the big distinctions in her work, and she's been studying interpersonal conflict for over 30 years in many countries, so she's seen it all, from Israel and Palestine to Sri Lanka to South Africa. And in her data, what she began to realize is that people all over the world use the word dignity and respect almost interchangeably, as if dignity is the synonym to respect, and it's not. And so in her research, she began to take a look at the definitions. And if you think about what respect means, it's a deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their qualities, abilities, or their achievements. So in effect, it's me having admiration for Jocelyn or Maria about what you do, how you do, or what you've achieved. But I don't necessarily have to respect you. In her work, Donna Hicks says that respect is earned by how you and I show up in the world and how we behave with each other and how we speak with each other in many other ways. And the definition she came up with for dignity is our inherent value and worth. And what she's saying is that every human being, regardless of X, Y, Z, is born valuable and worthy. And respect is something that one has to earn from another. And if you start a conflict where you have to respect me and I don't respect you, you're not going to move from first base to second base. But if you are inside of a conflict and the dignity is already set and that I value you as a human being, Maria and Jocelyn, and you're valuable and you're worthy, my listening of you and your upset with me begins to have a different, begins to show up differently in how I am explaining my conflict with you. Because you're beginning, at the beginning, you already see me valuable and worthy. You're not better than me. You're not less than me. And that is very powerful. fundamental to her work, drawing those distinctions, especially when you're speaking with employer organizations, where if you watch people communicate when they are in a conflict or you're watching TV and some of these 36 civil wars that we have going on all over the world today, they're saying the same thing. We want to be treated with dignity and respect. But what they're really saying is treat me with dignity.
SPEAKER_04:I love that. It's an incredibly impactful statement. When giving us the definitions, you really hear kind of like what the difference is. Now, why is it so important like in the workplace to distinguish between the two meanings on the dignity side and the respect side? I know you said a lot about earned respect. Does that have something to do with it? Can we dig into that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oftentimes when I'm meeting with clients, or meeting with two individuals to help resolve conflict, both individuals will say, they'll start off, you don't respect me. And the other says, I don't respect you because of this, this, and this. And I stop them and I say, do you believe that Maria is valuable and worthy? And she goes, of course. And then I said, do you believe that Joshua is valuable and worthy? Okay. You two don't have to respect each other because obviously in this conflict right now, it hasn't been earned by whatever your metric is. However, if you see the other person's humanity, which you are both agreeing that you do, we can begin to have a different conversation in how we speak to each other as we help resolve this conflict. Would you agree with that? And what would that look like if you were treating me with dignity? Oh, I probably wouldn't raise my voice. I probably would try to regulate my emotions right now because I'm upset. I would listen and take notes when you're speaking or try to listen deeply and try to paraphrase what you said. So I walked through this process. If you believe that this person sitting next to you is someone with dignity, tell me some of the behaviors. And so in doing that, they're actually coaching themselves on how to talk to someone, whether you're in conflict, whether you disagree with someone, but talking to them through the lens of Maria and Jocelyn, you're valuable and worthy. And how would I speak to someone if I truly believe that, even if we had a major disagreement? And it makes a really, really big difference when they finally get it. it brings the cortisol levels, right? The stress chemicals that are released in our brains when we were in some type of conflict, it begins to bring those levels down. And what you start to see is people are starting to see each other's humanity in a different light.
SPEAKER_03:I really like this conversation a lot because it really brings things a lot deeper than like the surface level, because I know certainly in being in this business for 30 years, every once in a while you do have conflict. And we always talk about how we need to be able to work things out because everybody has good intentions. So that's how I usually frame it as far as everyone has good intentions. But when you really look at it, it's really deeper than that as far as the dignity and everybody deserves to be listened to and heard. So it's, I think already, We could use some of these principles when we're talking. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Or
SPEAKER_03:dealing with conflict. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And I'd just like to add, as Donna Hicks began to do her research, she first had to identify, okay, if dignity means our inherent value and worth, then what are the elements that make up dignity? Right. And she discovered in her data over and over again, these 10 elements that make up dignity. Because what you said, Maria, is very close to one of the elements. The first element, in no particular order, is benefit of the doubt. Good intentions, giving people the benefit of the doubt. So if I see you as valuable and worthy, I am more prone to give you the benefit of the doubt versus saying, oh, Last week or two months ago, you did this over and over again, but every conflict is a new conflict. So giving people the benefit of the doubt cleans the sleep. That's element number one. Element number two is recognition. When people feel recognized for their abilities, for how they're doing their job, they're empowered, right? But when people feel that they're not recognized, Maybe they're recognized once a year, but people need to be recognized in the moment on a weekly basis or whenever they're doing something that their manager or their colleague admires or likes. When they're not recognized, that's going to cause a conflict. In her work or my work, we call these dignity violations. So when I'm not given the benefit of the doubt, I'm immediately thrown into some potential conflict. When I'm not recognized, I'm potentially going into a conflict. The third one is a big one, acceptance of identity. When people feel their identity isn't accepted, you're gonna have a conflict and that's another dignity violation. The fourth one is accountability. When I say something that offends you, I have a heightened level of awareness where I can hold myself accountable and go, ooh, that was inappropriate or I shouldn't have said that. And there's a way that when people feel that their manager or supervisor doesn't hold themselves accountable, then that's a dignity violation. You're holding me accountable, but my manager or supervisor, they do a behavior or say something and they're not held accountable. And then there's the biggest one in her data, which is acknowledgement. When people don't feel seen, heard, listened to, that's a dignity violation, and that's going to cause big conflict. And you see that in corporate America, There's studies every week coming out about people sitting at the table, but based on job status, gender, you name it, these power dynamics, they don't feel seen, even though they're speaking, right? They don't feel listened to. So that's a really big one that causes conflict all around the world is people don't feel seen, heard, or listened to. And then we have inclusion. So when people feel they're not included, that's a dignity violation. It goes without saying that definition. Independence, people don't want to be micromanaged. They want their own agency. They want to be able to make their own choices. And when they feel that they don't have that ability to be creative and make their own choices or have their own agency, that's another dignity violation. And then winding these down, you have psychological safety, which I do a lot of work in that area, right? And so the work of Dr. Amy Edmondson at a Harvard Business School, when people don't feel safe psychologically, you are going to have a conflict, right? They feel that maybe they're going to be retaliated against or they can't speak up. They can't challenge the status quo. Maybe they can't ask questions. So people want to feel safe. And when they feel safe, then their dignity is honored and you don't have conflict. And then the last two, understanding. People, hey, Stephen Covey wrote a book, what, 32 years ago? The Seven Habits. And the fifth habit is, first, you want to seek to understand yourself. then be understood, right? And so we oftentimes, people don't take the time to understand each other. And then the last one is fairness. When people feel they're being treated fairly, and that means their dignity is being honored, but when they feel they're not being treated fairly, that's a violation. And so when I speak about the word dignity and what it means, what I'm also saying, these elements make up dignity. And so anytime there's a conflict in a relationship, the first thing I do as a consultant, I give people the language of dignity, because oftentimes in conflict, we're not given frameworks in which to resolve. And so I'm using my model and Jocelyn, you're using your model, which means that you're speaking Mandarin and I'm speaking Russian. So we haven't even started with common ground. But if Ralph Campbell can provide you a framework of simple language and saying this is the language we're using at TTA when we have conflicts and everybody learns the language, then you have a really good probability of having better outcomes as you go through conflict because conflict is inherent in being human because we're all different and we have biases and blind spots and it actually is a good thing when there is conflict if we have a model that everybody understands and has agreed to at least begin to practice the model. And so these are the 10 elements of dignity. I love them because each one are pretty simple to understand. They're not complicated. You've heard the phrase before, but the sum makes up what we call the dignity model. And there's science that strongly argues that the regions in our brains that light up, every human being has a give or take about 100 billion neurons speaking to themselves at 24 hours a day. That's how they're communicating and giving orders for us to do what we do as humans. But when we have our dignity violated, a lot of data is suggesting that the regions that light up when you are physically assaulted, when you fall down by accident, or maybe your people are in a fight and they get punched, that when you and I have our dignity dignity violated, those regions light up, thus meaning my experience when my dignity is violated is the same experience as when I get punched in the face. Same regions light up. That's why you hear people at times in deep conflict where they're upset, they're crying, and they're, my stomach hurts, like I'm in pain. Well, they are in pain. Same regions. same physiological experience they're having. So that even makes this case for dignity even so much more important because I grew up when a time when I was taught sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt you. And that's not accurate. Not
SPEAKER_04:only
SPEAKER_00:do they hurt, but they feel they can have the same experience as being in a car accident or punched. And that is powerful because that makes a huge difference.
SPEAKER_04:Why mental health is just as important as physical health. Like you saying that you can feel something emotionally and mentally in your brain and your brain responds to it in exactly the same way as you were physically hurt then it's not just the outside that matters. It's not just a broken bone that matters. It's what that broken bone did to your brain composition. There are many types of trauma and they all affect the brain. And at the end of the day, you have to take care of yourself all across the board. This is so insightful. I love where this conversation is going. So let's reel in a little bit here because when we're talking about evaluating dignity, You have created a Dignity Index Assessment. Can you explain a little bit about what this assessment is and how it works?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'm excited about the Dignity Index Assessment, but I want to give you a little context of how I stumbled upon it. Dr. Donna Hicks is like a mentor to me, and she is an advisor for a nonprofit in Utah called Unite. And they're all about having the world be more dignified. They created what's called the Dignity Index back in 2021, and they rolled it out in 2022. And the Dignity Index was a one to eight scale to measure speech for dignity or contempt. The lower the number, the higher the contempt. The higher the number, the more dignified. And this scale was used in the midterm elections in Utah as a way to give feedback to the politicians speaking to each other, doing their debates. And so after the debate was over, the local newspaper would publish the Dignity Index. And they'd have Jocelyn Allen, a one through an eight. And they'd print the paragraph in which you were an eight. And then all through the debate, you just see these numbers. One, two, three, four. And they did it as an experiment, and it took off. People began to go, wait a second here. Seeing how language hurts people and some of the harshness of the language, it actually begins to change behavior when you see a score of a one. Like, ouch. And it really caused a lot of healthy debate. And now it's starting to really take off. It started at University of Utah, but they're thinking about using it, obviously, across our nation in politics. I had an aha moment. I thought that was fascinating how getting feedback changed your behavior, right? Because it's published all around the world and your children see it and they see the language that you used, some of the divisive language that we have out there today. And I said, well, is there an assessment where employees can rate their own company on these 10 elements? And I said, I called around and they said, no, why not you? So I put my pennies together and I hired a company to help me create what's now called the Dignity Index Assessment. And it's an assessment where an employee can rate the company anonymously from one to five. based on these 10 elements. And so the company at the end of the day gets a score, a one to five, obviously a one, you're not doing well. You probably need to hire Ralph or a five. You're doing really great. You have a bunch of dignity agents. That's what I call people that really practice dignity, dignity agents. And what's interesting about this is you get your score, but then I can also dissect it by, well, what did TTA get? for the element benefit of the doubt. Maybe that's a three. Fairness, that's a five. So we can sit down, I can sit down with employers and we can get really granular to see which element of dignity that we need to work on. And you may be doing great in eight of them, but psychological safety is a big one. That's always the lowest score based on my data that I'm collecting now. People do not feel safe in the workplace. So you can also dissect it by gender, by race, by sex, by title, by pay. And it's interesting because with psychological safety, you can tell and give this to men. And in some of my groups, men score the company higher than women. Why is that? Good question. And that's a question that they get to ask themselves, not Ralph. But at least now you have data where you can begin to have these conversations on what do we need to do to move our two from a two to a five. And so I just started it about seven or eight months ago. And the feedback has been really, really good. It's not an assessment like a personality assessment where everybody's just jumping to do it. And what's my personality assessment? Am I a driver or am I highly analytical? The Myers-Briggs and the big five and the disc. This is a tough one because it's about culture. It's about culture, right? It's not about my personality or do I think critically? How do I listen? This is about the culture that drives your company. And are you committed to to do something about it so that you can have a company built foundationally on dignity. So it's been exciting to see.
SPEAKER_03:So how does the actual assessment work? How long is it? Does every employee take it?
SPEAKER_00:It's about 25 to 30 questions. We're still tweaking it based on feedback, right? Because we know if it's too long, I'm not gonna take it, right? So it's about 25 today, 25 to 30 questions. It first gives each employee the definitions of each element. So you start off by reading the elements. Again, pretty simple, fairness, and they give you the operational definition so it's not gray. And then they ask you a series of questions, and these questions are tied to each of these elements. And you just answer, and how you're answering it is your own scale. Do I agree? Do I disagree? So there's seven different ways that you can answer it. Basically a scale. You're putting the element of psychological safety to you on your own scale. So it's not linear or binary. Does the company treat everybody with psychological safety? Yes, no. So there's a scale.
SPEAKER_03:And then based on the results, you work with the organization to improve the areas where they are low in. So do you tailor that class based on that or do you still cover all the principles? How does that work? What's the next step?
SPEAKER_00:Traditionally, when I lead my workshop, I teach people the elements of dignity, the difference between dignity and respect. So we have a starting place. We do some other things to get to know each other a little better. setting context, and then they'll go and do the dignity assessment. Then I can come back, talk to the leadership team, and we can devise a plan of action to come in to improve these particular areas. And so it's a case by case, but the data doesn't lie. And we know we all have our own biases. So it's still subjective. It's not the truth. But if you're willing to be honest, there's a lot that begins to open up when they start seeing the results.
SPEAKER_03:I know you said this program is relatively newer, this assessment. Are you already seeing that you're working with organizations on reinforcement? So they did this whole training program. They worked on certain key elements. Is there a way to follow up to make sure, like, how is this going? Do you go back and do a reassess?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a great question. Even before I started this, I wouldn't take on a client if they weren't committed to what we call the dignity journey. So this isn't a one-off. So it requires practice, just like if you're a singer, you're practicing every day. You're playing the piano, you're dancing. But what about dignity? How come we're not applying the same first principles to learning the skill of dignity as we do for learning the skill of swimming? And when I introduce it that way, the employer typically goes, yeah. My daughter goes to dance every night. My son runs track. My employees practice dignity. Yay. And so that's exciting when you get the buy-in. And then, of course, the real work begins. I had a client that we just finished in October, a 10-month dignity journey. It was 10 months. So it started with the formal training And then how do you practice it? How do you, if I violate Maria's dignity, what are some things I can do to restore your dignity, to honor your dignity, right? To make amends. And so there's a lot of different processes because once you learn the methodology, that's the easy part. How do you actually put it into practice? And then how do you measure it? And so I have this one organization put it in their KPI, right? So we had KPIs for many things, but now we have a dignity KPI. What does that look like? So that's exciting. The challenge is the world that we live in, the business environment, many leaders say one thing and they do another based on performance results versus on the stock price, et cetera, et cetera, right? And so the smaller organizations are– because a smaller organization, you can manage culture, right? Where you have a larger organization, it really takes a strong leadership team to walk the talk and hold each other accountable. So a lot of the work I do these days, when I start the Dignity Journey, I'm mainly working with the leadership team. I'm doing individual coaching. I'm coaching them. I asked them this question that was asked me several years ago. Are you an easy pill to swallow? Are you an easy pill to swallow? Why or why not? And let's ask your colleagues, is Ralph an easy pill to swallow? Which is basically saying, how does Ralph live the elements? If you're an easy pill to swallow, you're living benefit of the doubt, recognition, accountability, psychological safety. And so a lot of my work to organizations starts at the top and we either move forward or It's just not a match because if you're not, you know, then if you're not, no, you can fail. You can make mistakes because that's what you do when you're learning a new skill. It's the place you come from when you violate someone's dignity, when you make a mistake about the elements. Are you accountable, right? Are you asking for feedback? Are you showing remorse? Are you showing vulnerability? Or are you hubris and arrogant? Right? and the power dynamic and dismissive when called out. So it's interesting. It's interesting, but people are committed to it because they want a world where people feel valued and are worthy, right? You're seeing it and it becomes contagious if enough organizations are leading with dignity. And I have clients that put it on their walls. Years ago, remember you used to have the Americans with Disability Act You had a federal law. You had to put it in a lunchroom and workers' compensation. Years ago in Florida, you had to list your sexual harassment policy. That was a thing. It was a law in Florida, perhaps, because my former employer did it. But now I have employers putting their dignity code of conduct on the wall, just like you put any policy that you want people to adhere to. The 10 elements are there. So I have organizations making... these dignity code of conduct. So people sit down, and I had an organization, the same one, where we came up with, okay, what are some of the norms around these elements that we want to adhere to? What are some of the norms that we want to get rid of, right? They're not serving us. And so really digging in and making it a practice versus something to do. This other organization, the one I said that I worked with for 10 months, They took it a step further. We did the workshops over a two-month period, but based on feedback, their employees said they wanted to practice this more. And so we came up with what's called Bring Your Own Dignity, BYOB, Bring Your Own Dignity. And the employer paid for every two weeks, any employee that wanted to come on Zoom with me and talk about their journey. What's working? What's not working? I did this. What could I have done differently? from your personal life to your professional life. And we did it for six months and they paid for it. So people would show up and I'd ask, how's your journey? Are you an easy pill to swallow? And they would talk about the ups and downs, just like you learning a new skill. The coach goes, how's it going today? And the player says, oh, I'm struggling here. Okay, let's work on this. Let's work on your swing, right? Let's work on how you're moving your arms if you're a dancer, right? Oh, okay, Joshua, let's work on acceptance of identity today. You seem to be struggling with that. Same way. One is not better than the other. It's all about getting 1% better. And that's how I'm presenting this. I'm not presenting it any differently than me teaching my kids how to listen better. No different. It's a skill because it's valuable. And it makes you a better human being and you have deeper connections, right? And you're going to perform better by being a better listener in your interpersonal relationships. And if I can be a better dignity agent, I'm going to increase personal growth. I'm going to increase communication within the company. I'm going to increase how we work together in work teams. Therefore, we're going to have better results. I'm going to reduce turnover, right? And so all of these factor into practicing being a dignity agent and being on this journey where we set up specific KPIs that we can measure ourselves, whether it be quarterly, whether it be monthly. This group bought shirts for everybody. People wear their dignity shirts. The little things. But the little things are always the big things, right? Great
SPEAKER_03:stories. So how can an organization start this without having your... Training. I think they need your training, Ralph.
SPEAKER_00:I read recently by this neuroscientist about learning a new skill. And the first thing he said when you're learning something new is to read five books on it. So I tell people, don't hire me. Let me send you the free e-book or go buy the book. And then read her second book. So Donna has two books. One is called Dignity. And her latest, 2018, it's called Leading with Dignity. Now putting these elements into practice, right? So she has two books. So I tell them, first, read her two books and then Google dignity and read more books on dignity. Then call me. Now you've learned Spanish 101 and 102, right? So you and I have language together, understanding together, because my model is a partnership model. And so I want to make sure that you want to do this journey. You've committed to it. Maybe it's part of your core values. Maybe it's part of your vision and mission statement. I ask those type of questions. It should be somewhere in your vision and mission statements, somewhere in your core values. So it really, it's not for everyone, right? Because the easy way is to, hey, everyone should be adults, right? Just come to work and treat each other with respect or treat each other with dignity. Well, if not, I didn't grow up in a world or an environment where that was modeled. And now I'm in the corporate world and it didn't happen too much in college. And here I am now in the workplace. I'm only gonna bring to the workplace what I've been wired for. And if I've been wired for treating people with contempt or indignity, that's what I'm gonna bring. And if I've been wired for treating people with dignity, your inherent value and worth, that's what I'm gonna bring, right? And it's a practice. And so we identify those individuals. We identify the leadership team and get everybody on board. And every group is different because every group has a different culture, right? And so you have to flush some of what doesn't work out so that you can produce what does work out. So sometimes they're hard conversations. But what I've found when I do a lot of these sessions, people coach themselves. I do a little talking. I set the context. And they're bringing a scenario up. wanting to be told what to do. But now that we've walked through the model, we've practiced it, we've had these open conversations, it's interesting to watch employees begin to coach each other and going, ooh, that was a violation. And let me show you, well, let me explain to you what I'm hearing you say. It was very moving to see men and women work with each other without the need of a coach or their boss or their facilitator. And at the end of the day, The dignity model works best when people are modeling it because they just believe in everybody's born valuable and worthy. So the police are policing the police, not the hierarchy, which you traditionally see. And it's very, very special to see people honoring each other that way. You don't need to send an email and gossip and all that stuff that people sometimes do when they feel threatened. But you have to set that environment and it takes work. But I'll tell you, The benefits are overwhelming.
SPEAKER_02:I'm not trying
SPEAKER_03:to take away from any DEI classes that we've had, but this to me is just a whole nother level, a deeper level that seems like it would just... get better results because you're getting at the core of everything. Right. I really love your program. This is excellent, Ralph. Thank you. I really, really do. This
SPEAKER_00:is good
SPEAKER_03:stuff.
SPEAKER_00:When I do diversity, equity, inclusion works, I do a lot of it. It's integrated. The first thing we do, we don't talk about what's implicit bias, what's racism, et cetera, et cetera. What we talk about is what is dignity? And that's the foundation of my diversity, equity, inclusion course. And once that's in place, when we start having uncomfortable conversations, they're not uncomfortable because we're speaking through the lens of dignity to one another. There's not the me against you and the being triggered. People still get triggered, but it's a different type of trigger. So we spend a full or half day before we even get to these other things. other terms as far as equity and equality and why they're different and et cetera, et cetera. And the history of DEI and all the sensitivity training, it's different when you start talking about diversity, equity, inclusion, when you have the foundation of the house called dignity. It's just a different conversation. And I've been spreading that to the last two or three years. When they hire me for DEI, I tell them, you're hiring me for dignity. And then we'll have a conversation on equity and inclusion.
SPEAKER_04:Awesome. I'm very
SPEAKER_03:proud of you, Rob. It really is. I feel like doing a standing ovation.
SPEAKER_04:I know, really. Oh, there she goes. She's standing up. She's standing
SPEAKER_03:up. Yay, David! I know. Because I didn't fully know what to expect from this conversation because it is at a different level. And this is right on. Every organization needs this, and we have to discuss more about it. possibly bring in Ralph to TTA.
SPEAKER_04:Ralph would love nothing more than to come to TTA. Right, Ralph? Right, my dude?
SPEAKER_00:I'd be honored. Pro bono. Wouldn't be hard to dine because you have been such a great partner to my work and I'm honored to work with I don't know everybody there, but the handful of men and women I have met, they all treat me with dignity. And I think that's why you're so successful as an organization. We do
SPEAKER_03:have a good, good group. And as I mentioned, it didn't happen by accident. We are crazy about hiring for the right culture fit because it's everything. But with that said, we still have personalities and people coming to work. And every once in a while, johnny makes sally cry and sally makes johnny cry so we just got to figure that out but but i i do love this i feel that we need to absolutely talk about this more market this more i think all schools need to have this i think that you're on to something very very good so yes I know our time is... That's all right.
SPEAKER_04:We are at time, but it just means that we are ready for more time, like 90 seconds worth of time, I think. So, Ralph, are you ready for the next phase of the Bring Out the Talent episode that... You were here with us on? Yes, I am. That wasn't my best transition, but David, can you play the music, please?
SPEAKER_01:It's the TTA 10 with 10 final questions for our guest.
SPEAKER_04:We'll be right back.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:All right. David, 90 seconds, please.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, Jocelyn. 90 seconds on the TTA 10 o'clock. Beginning now.
SPEAKER_04:Ralph, what is your favorite way to decompress at the end of the day?
SPEAKER_00:Reading.
SPEAKER_04:Reading. Name a three-digit number with no repeating digits in it.
SPEAKER_00:305.
SPEAKER_04:Who let the dogs out? Oof, oof. Do you think it's wrong for a vegetarian to eat animal crackers?
SPEAKER_00:No, no.
SPEAKER_04:Which of Snow White's seven dwarves do you most relate to?
SPEAKER_00:I'm having a brain fog. I don't know if I can answer that question. How about Doc? Sleepy?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Doc. What is 10 plus 3? 10
SPEAKER_00:plus 3, 13.
SPEAKER_04:What is a junk food you wish you could eat more of? Ooh.
SPEAKER_00:Gummy bears.
SPEAKER_04:You asked ChatGPT to plan your perfect vacation. Where are you going?
SPEAKER_00:Key West, Florida.
SPEAKER_04:What is your favorite flavor of ice cream?
SPEAKER_00:Chocolate.
SPEAKER_04:Who do you think is going to win the Super Bowl?
SPEAKER_00:Lions.
SPEAKER_04:What did you say?
SPEAKER_00:Green Bay.
SPEAKER_04:Green Bay. Okay. Awesome. Well, David, that's 10 answered questions. They were answered. So give us the final verdict, please.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you didn't say which Super Bowl. I mean, that could be next year's Super Bowl. Yes. You never know. The results. The time of one minute and just 17 seconds, Ralph, has triumphed in the TTA 10.
UNKNOWN:Woo!
SPEAKER_04:Beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, and we do have a special salute for Ralph, who is clearly a proud Floridian. Contrary to popular opinion, not everyone in Florida is crazy. After that glorious triumph in the TGA 10, we know Ralph is actually an impressive Floridian. Here's another one for you. The late, great Tom Petty. Bet you didn't know he wrote a song about Ralph. Goes a little something like this. Well, down in Florida, where the sun meets the shore, there's a man named Ralph, whose wisdom we adore. From Morehouse College, a scholar at heart. Dignity, his name, his true work of art.
UNKNOWN:Oh, wait. Oh, wait.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Dignity Index, it's a dance sublime. Ralph's the maestro conducting in his prime. He draws the line. He's always so profound in the workplace where unity is found. Yeah, that's where it's supposed to be found. Ralph's all about dignity. And that sounds pretty good to me. He'll coach you up, he'll ease your pain. Not everyone in Florida's insane. Break it down. Yes, Ralph, he's the dignity king. Teaching us the difference, let the workplace sing. He speaks of respect, he always takes a stand. Ralph Campbell, superhero, the dignity man. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, my goodness. David.
SPEAKER_00:David. Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Outstanding.
SPEAKER_00:I am floored. I am floored.
SPEAKER_04:Right? I told you. It does not disappoint. Have outdone yourself once again, David. Bravo.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Labor of love. Labor of love. Well done today,
SPEAKER_03:Ralph. Thank you. Thank you. That's going to be your theme song. You can play that whenever you want. I need that. You're an organization. Right? Ralph changes
SPEAKER_04:his answer to question number one. His favorite way to decompress is that song.
SPEAKER_00:That's it. That's going to be my starter song when I go on stages. David, you're going to be a star. You already are a star.
SPEAKER_01:Let's go together.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Nobody knows the dwarf one. I think you've asked that one like five times. Yeah. I think everybody's stuck on that. Nobody remembers. I don't remember. I'm like sleepy, I think, is the only one I remember. Yeah,
SPEAKER_04:sleepy and dopey and dark. There's a couple. Come on. As long as you remember like three of them, you have an answer. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:I don't. I'm going to retire that one,
SPEAKER_04:I
SPEAKER_00:think.
SPEAKER_01:Bashful is the one most people forget.
SPEAKER_04:Bashful is the one that most people forget.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, well, thank you so much again, Ralph. We really appreciate you being on an absolutely incredible conversation, and it's left me thinking a lot. So that's what we like, and I'm sure our audience will feel the same way.
SPEAKER_04:For more information on working with Ralph to establish dignity in your workplace, visit us at the training associates.com. We'll see you later.