A Force To Be Reckoned With
A Force To Be Reckoned With
238. This One’s for the Boy Moms (and Dads): Reclaiming Boyhood in a World That Silences It with Rebekah Lovell
"Boyhood is not a disease."
Boys deserve to know they're not broken—that their energy, curiosity, and desire to test limits aren't flaws but strengths to be channeled. Parents aren't alone in this battle to resurrect boyhood, and small steps forward can lead to raising men who fulfill God's purpose for their lives.
We are at war and it's not against our neighbors, spouses, children, politicians or whatever else we feel like we're battling against.
Speaker 2:So the questions are who's the fight against, and are we winning or losing? We're the Adkins, and we are a force to be reckoned with.
Speaker 1:Are you ready to join the?
Speaker 2:force. Hi everyone, welcome back to another week of A Force to be Reckoned With. We are here today with a special guest, Rebecca Lovell. I can't wait to share what we're talking about, but before I do, I'm just going to kind of share a little bit about Rebecca. Rebecca is an author, speaker and homeschool mom. She has two boys and she's been married for 18 years 18 still, Yep. Her husband, John and Corey. You actually were sharing before that. You've seen John, and so I'm sure some of our audience does as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, admittedly, I'm probably on Instagram a little too much sometimes and I recognized John when I was looking up Rebecca, just from my algorithm feeding me clips of him and another pastor.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so Rebecca is the founder of the Outdoor Reading Club and that's an initiative to get the kids reading and spending more time outside, which I absolutely love, and just helping children and families to spend more memorable time together. What I'm really excited about, I mean, those are all wonderful things and, as you guys know, things that we have talked about on this show, but we today are talking about her newest book that actually comes out this month. It hasn't come out officially yet. Right Tuesday yeah, tuesday which is the day this podcast will come out.
Speaker 3:Awesome.
Speaker 2:Really excited about that, awesome. But I got her press kit in my email and the first, the very top of it, says if you have boys, no boys or care about boys, please read this fabulous book. And I was like, okay, I'm already in, but the book is titled Boyhood Resurrected and that's what we're going to be diving into today. So that was a long intro, but welcome, rebecca.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much, Corey and Bethany. It's good to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so something that we always do on the show we are going to talk about, you know, boys and raising boys in this culture. But the main reason that our podcast started was I was a young mom just seeking to find my purpose in this world and I just felt this heavy weight to make sure that I did it well and I didn't know what purpose was or what that looked like, and so started writing blogs and researching purpose. And then the podcast was born, really selfishly, because I just wanted to connect with people and hear their stories, because I think some of us have this belief that purpose is this linear thing and in fact, that is so far from the truth. We all have different paths and before we dive into the book, I just want to hear about your story. You're an author and speaker and homeschool mom. Now, is that what you imagine you would be as a little girl?
Speaker 3:That's a great question. No, I think I wanted to be a ballerina and I actually went to college one year to study dance and I quickly realized this is not what I want. Transferred colleges, studied public relations and marketing and ended up meeting John, my husband, there, and I feel like God has just blessed us with such an adventure. Since then, when we were young marrieds, we just had jobs and were building a home and before we had kids, we worked in a student ministry, actually overseas in Costa Rica for a few years, had our kids there, moved back and John started his business Warrior Poet Society and then just in the last four years, we moved from the suburbs out to land and now we're just want to be homesteaders. So we've made all the wrong decisions and learned the hard way of how to care for animals and all that. But it's been great. It's been an adventure. We've got good mentors around us now, but we have learned by what not to do. It's fun, it's fun.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love when I mean I feel like homesteading. I have even been drawn to that, and so it's really fun to see people who have not even been raised in that environment but they make it work, they make it work.
Speaker 3:Figure it out, and you just learn from those who've gone before you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have a half acre and 10 chickens.
Speaker 3:So that's great. Yeah, you can do a lot on a half acre. You can, and chickens are the gateway animal, so yes, it is funny how popular that has become.
Speaker 1:I mean there's, there's a whole business where they will build you a homestead, like they find you plots of land. I get that fed on my Instagram.
Speaker 3:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it'll like create a homestead community and they'll set you up with animals and everything. It's kind of funny.
Speaker 2:We're going to put the link in those show notes so if anybody's interested, you can join us.
Speaker 3:That's cool. And how old are your boys? My boys are now 11 and 13.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's awesome, we have a 13 year old boy as well. Oh, very good, yeah, so I'm really excited. I know that projects like this just are often a labor of love and typically come from our own pain points and things that the Lord is impressing on us in our lives. So I want to kind of just talk about the season that you were in when this book idea was birthed.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I start the book talking about the experience we had in public school, which for my oldest wasn't a great experience, but it was just speech therapy and pre-K. I can get more into that. But really, just over the years I was keeping journals. I was, you know, talking with mentors of moms before me who have sons. I wanted to model my sons. After you know, looking ahead to these kids who turned out really well, right, and so I never thought we'd be a homeschool family and I always thought I'd be a career woman. And God just changed my heart on every front.
Speaker 3:But in the past few years, john was invited to speak at a homeschool convention and they're like, oh, we want Rebecca to speak too. And I'm like, what? So I was not prepared for that, I was not ready for that. But you know, I started digging deep of all right, what am I passionate about? And looking through these old journals, and I'm like, all right, well, if I have one thing I'm going to speak about, it's going to be boys. It's going to be about how I've seen, over the past decade and longer, how boys are treated, what boys facing and what boys need, and so that's kind of how it started.
Speaker 2:And you, if I remember, reading correctly or watching a video was I was doing my research. You were not a school child, you were raised, you were in the public school system.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, John and I are kind of first generation, a lot of stuff. So, yeah, that experience we had when my older was four. We were like, what do we do? We were just about to enroll him in kindergarten after that and we had no idea what to do. But we just asked around, we researched, we found a homeschool community, we joined. We love the people. We never looked back.
Speaker 2:And I'm just curious sorry I'm firing so many questions that I don't know, it's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I heard you say something, because it's something I do as well. Just looking at mentors of yours, people you respect, children who are further ahead than yours Okay, that is kind of what I want to emulate in a child. So what do I? How do I kind of reverse engineer that and implement that as a mom In your questioning and in your research? Did homes, was homeschool, an underlying theme with that, or did you find it was kind of various?
Speaker 3:It was various, but there was one experience I also mentioned in the book, where we visited a family John actually had a connection to in the gun industry, that we went into their home, we saw their family atmosphere, we had dinner with them. They had older kids, they were all sitting around the dinner table discussing current events and they had like classical music playing and real paintings on the wall and I'm like, what is this? Like I'd never been in such an environment. But they were, you know, a homeschool family of a few decades. They were some of the pioneers that homeschooled in the 80s where, if it's OK, if I say it was weird back then, I mean homeschool was a weird thing in the 80s and 90s. No one did it.
Speaker 3:But this family did and I just saw the fruit of their labor. And I talked to that mom and she's like you can homeschool because no one cares more about your child than you. You will do anything to figure out, you know how to successfully raise this kid because you care the most. And that got me and I'm like, okay, I can do this. But yeah, I was all public school. John was some public and private and my mom was a principal and my dad was a teacher, so this was just way out in left field.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I. I just want to say this before we continue on in the interview. This is not like a. The point of this interview is not you have to homeschool your kids to successfully raise. That's right. We had a season of homeschooling. Currently our kids are in public school and for every you know family there are seasons for things. But yes, I would agree there's so much to what you just said of nobody loves your children more than you do. There is definitely. We're all called to do different things as families. Sometimes we are called to send our kids to public school and that's just a whole other battle. There's battles with homeschooling and then there's battles with having children in the public school system and fighting against the public agenda and so just being on guard for all of that.
Speaker 2:One more off of my notes question. I don't think you said it here. I actually think I watched a video of you and your husband talking about. Well, you just mentioned that you thought you would be a career woman and so, with the shift of shifting to homeschool your children, was your career something that you ended up giving up? What did that look like? And I'm just trying to speak into families, because this is a conversation Corey and I often have. I'm currently working a full-time job full-time both outside of the home. It hasn't always looked like this in our parenting life, but there are sacrifices that come with that, and so I'm just curious what your story looked like.
Speaker 3:Yes, absolutely, and it is different for every family. Like you said, different callings, different seasons. Just for me, my experience, when my older son was born and we still worked in ministry, I just knew from that point on, just for me, that I just and a half behind him. So it was, you know, the two babies, the two toddlers. But there was a season I did go back to work part time from home and, like you said, there's sacrifices we made. We needed the income and I did that for a while. We actually had been renting a home and then we downsized and we moved into an apartment for a season to save money. And, a side note, we also thought we would meet more families in this community. There was a playground and a pool and ponds to walk around, but people didn't come out of their home much.
Speaker 3:That's another topic of how people are just so inward and screen-based. We can get to that later, but yeah, so that for a while, maybe about a year, so I'd have my one and three year old through the day and then about five o'clock I'd make another pot of coffee and you know we do the evening routine and then when they went to bed I would stay up and do my work as late as I could, till midnight, 1 am, and then I'd crash, go to bed and then get up and do it again. So there are sacrifices you make, there are seasons. We've done it all. Yeah. Older cars, smaller homes yeah, we've done it. Tried to do the Dave Ramsey stuff too. That's very helpful as well.
Speaker 1:Very similar path we lived with each other because we lived in California for four years and then, when we moved back, we were in debt, so we moved into a small apartment with kids, homeschooled our kids and use that time to pay off debt.
Speaker 3:So that was yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:So I just want to like just kind of call some of this for what it is that in our culture we've just we've seen a war on, just on masculinity and femininity. In all reality, I feel like Satan has co-opted our culture, our schools, the entertainment that we watch, our devices, movies, our government, all of the things, and is attacking us from all angles and in that they've almost tried to. You know, you see the clips of they can't define a woman, you can't define a man and they're trying to make us all.
Speaker 1:It seems like we're one sex and there's only one thing, and they're attacking that because that's not how God designed us. He designed us both in His image. I think John Eldredge puts it very beautifully in Wild at Heart when he talks about how God created both men and women in His image, but we each have different roles to play. Is that part of the motivation for you, just in your parenting and in writing this book? Is that we've just seen this attack on masculinity and femininity and how we're raising our kids and it was just your way of God calling you to speak into that and rise up, and it was just your way of God calling you to speak into that and rise up?
Speaker 3:Absolutely I think so, and as a mother of just boys, I feel like I was seeing it more firsthand. So we did several educational options, different environments and then actually many different environments. I saw my sons were just treated in a way I didn't like. My sons were just treated in a way I didn't like and their wiring, how they're made, like you said, god's design wasn't honored and I just wanted different for them. I wanted better for them, and not just them. I want better for all boys, for cousins and neighbors and friends, and you know the kids on the baseball team and your nephews, just everyone. I think all the boys deserve better. You're right.
Speaker 3:They're attacked and our culture belittles them. Our culture, I think, essentially wants boys, especially younger boys, who have all the energy and the movement. They want them to be more feminine. They want them to sit still, they want them to just, you know, put out that fire and that light in their eyes. But boys were meant for more and they deserve more. They want to build, conquer, explore, be kings of their domain. They want to fight dragons and test themselves and see how they measure up. They want to, yeah, they want to be exactly how God made them, and when they're not allowed to do that, then we hit a wall, we hit problems, you know. Yeah, it's kind of a spiral down when boys can't be how they were made to be.
Speaker 2:I could not agree with that more and I just could sit on this very topic for the entire day, and as a mom of boys and a friend of moms with boys, I have seen this through and through our son in particular. He's 13 years old now and he has always been a strong-willed boy. So I mean, there's there's even different personalities within boys, but the the bottom line is that God created boys to test the limits. They're supposed to be protectors, they're supposed to be leaders and instead, something that you said in the video I watched is that in culture, especially in the school systems and we've experienced this firsthand when we advocate for specific teachers for our children, because we have strong-willed children and there's a very specific personality that does really, really well in the public school system and it's meek and quiet and testing the limits and submissive, and we have never had kids like that always been an uphill battle and for a long time, as a young mom, I had my son in college and, um, you're, you're figuring out your footing as a young mom and you.
Speaker 2:It really makes you question am I a bad parent? Is my child bad Right, or is this how God created him and the world is trying to get him to be something that he was never intended to be. I'm just wondering if you can speak into that at all, because I know for a fact. We have listeners who are experiencing this. As we speak, it's the beginning of a school year. We have personalities that aren't matching with teachers. We have kids that are getting bad reports for simply being boys. Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 3:It is hard, yeah. So this experience we had one and I describe it in the book, but I'll just talk about it pretty quickly. But just one day I'm hearing the screaming coming down the hall when I'm waiting on my son at speech therapy. So we weren't enrolled in the public pre-K but we did speech services. We didn't have insurance for private therapy, so I'm hearing the screaming, which is not unusual. But finally I stick my head out in the hall and as I'm just waiting there with my other son, I see my son being dragged down the hallway with two teachers, so one, you know, one teacher on each arm and his feet are just dragging behind.
Speaker 3:And, like you said, the young mom. I'm just mortified, like what has he done? I'm so embarrassed. What I can't believe, what he must've done. They get up to me and they're like uh yeah, he wouldn't put the airplane down. And I'm just what, what? So they had worked with a toy for his therapy exercises that they didn't think he could have brought the toy up to me, they could have coaxed it out of them a different way, I don't know, but he was being severely punished because he wouldn't put a toy down.
Speaker 3:And then after that, john and I had a meeting with an administrator and the therapist who were supposed to be telling us about his progress. So he did tests for many different things that he might have needed therapy for, and at the time speech was all he needed. And. But in this meeting it sounded so serious, it sounded so clinical, it sounded so I don't know, just like my child was broken, and so I'm almost in tears.
Speaker 3:I wanted to just sink into my seat and disappear and I'm grateful for how my husband is wired because he just goes. Oh so you're telling me he can't say K, p, g and a few other sounds. Thank you, we're leaving. And he stood up and left the room and I'm like, yes, that is all that's wrong with him. What is this nonsense? I don't know what they were trying to convince me of, other than that he was broken. He was fundamentally just wrong and he was going to be in their system for all of posterity and need the labels and need the fixing. But it wasn't him, it was the system. So I just wanted to encourage parents out there if you're listening, it is not your child that is broken, it is a broken system and our boys need better.
Speaker 2:So true, do you think? I mean this is like I already know the answer to this, but I just want to talk about it. Um, I mean, clearly the school system has is pushing things on our children far before they're ready. It's not even necessary, like and I it makes me sad because I just think education has progressed and not for the better. Like we have five-year-old boys sitting in a classroom for seven hours of the day and it's setting them up for failure, absolutely.
Speaker 2:He's in eighth grade and his biggest grief about going from elementary school to middle school was that they were going to take away his recess and so, instead of having 30 minutes of recess, he now had zero. And from a bird's eye view as a busy parent, it's like, oh well, you're getting older, get over it. But if you really think of the heart of boys and the way that God designed boys to be mentally, that is not healthy for our children to sit in a classroom and confined seats, not move around. It's really setting them up for failure. And so I'm just wondering if you can speak into that and, like, if you have any wisdom biblically of what the I certainly think that boys need movement, no matter how old they are.
Speaker 3:And you know, whatever school environment you're in, maybe they're getting it before school or after school. At least I have one lady tell me that she took her son to the park before school because she knew he wasn't able to run around. And, like you said, with the younger kids the younger boys it is especially hard because they're not meant to sit and do rigorous academic work at five. And if you look back the educational system, we didn't even have a kindergarten just a few decades ago. It started with first grade and even then they would still have nap time. It was still a big class and they would slowly start to learn reading. And you should see some of the testing I think you can Google this of what was successful markers for first grade. It was like tying your shoes. You know, knowing basic sentences. It wasn't reading. They were starting to learn to read.
Speaker 3:So when we force that on children so early how to sit down and write their hands aren't ready for it. They're not interested in reading yet. Usually some kids are a little ahead and if they like, that pour into them. But I'd say the average boy wants to move and he's a kinetic learner and he wants to do things with his hands, even while you're just reading out loud, and that's good. So when we're learning throughout our day, and when they were younger, we would just do short lessons, like 10, 15 minute lessons, and then they take a break outside.
Speaker 3:So I see how that is hard for the older kids. They still want to move and I think, just like you've mentioned before, men are called to be protectors, providers, leaders, lovers. They're going to be leading a family, they're going to be leaders in their community one day, and it all starts with how boys are wired now. They're wired for that already and if we're suppressing that at such a young age, then they're getting the message that they're broken, something is wrong with them and that there's nothing to look forward to. And I think that is one of the biggest things I wish for the book. I wish the message of parents. I want you to know and I want your boys to know how they're wired is perfect and it's God's design and there's nothing wrong or broken with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just going to say, you know, you look at, if you go back and like, look at how the school system was founded, like, john Rockefeller was huge in like the founding of the school and it was to prepare people to be like laborers and factory workers and all these things. And our schools haven't evolved at all. And you see these like different videos. I've seen people make videos of like, compare and pictures comparing our schools to prison, and I don't remember the exact quote that Rockefeller used. It was something like I don't want.
Speaker 1:Basically, he was saying like we don't need citizens of our country to think and challenge. We want people that just like, fall in line, and you just, you see our school system hasn't evolved of our country to think and challenge. We want people that just like, fall in line and you just, you see our school system hasn't evolved. We keep getting passed up by other countries and like every aspect in regard and it just it sickens me. But then you also look and anytime you hear stories of people that achieve, whether it's business leaders, people that become pastors a lot of them have the same story of how they were treated in school they maybe didn't get good grades, they couldn't pay attention, and those are the people that end up making a huge impact, are the people that struggled within the normal school system.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't know, I don't know if you can speak to that or or yeah, yeah, I think students who push back, who don't fit the mold, exactly like you're saying, it's good, it's good. So we want kids who are disciplined, in a way that they're respectful, right, but we don't want their spirit to be crushed, so that's a fine line. So, whatever educational environment you put your child in, just know that your son needs more of you parents. So, whether it's before, after school, on the weekends, just making them a priority, pouring into them Maybe they're coming home after a long day and they're just exhausted, maybe they need a good break, a good run outside, a bike ride, climb a tree, something before they start homework Just you can find these little ways to make sure that they're still getting what they need in whatever season you're in.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious. It sounds like with that scenario, um, with your son. Ultimately, you guys decided we're going to take on homeschooling and that was the path that you took. Um, for some families, that's not a reality that they have, and so they have kids in school. I'm wondering if you have any advice for the parents there who are like I yes all of this, I have boys. They have been labeled because simply they're boys, and now I'm starting to believe that there's something wrong with my child. But hearing this, I've been so encouraged and I know, in fact, no, this is how God created me to be. But how do I begin respectfully advocating with a child or for a child? Because it sounds like here, when we have boys in the culture, they what they really need when they're minors and in our care is they need advocates. So how do we? Do you have any words for that?
Speaker 3:Absolutely Um. So I think that there's all kinds of uh options for boys out there uh homeschool we've talked about and then there's hybrid schools where some moms I've got friends in our homeschool co-op. They still work two or three days a week. Their job gives them that flexibility and then they're at co-op the one day a week. Also, I know moms who they've just found boys programs. So there are like Boys Academy just for boys, like a boys military school or a boys hybrid school. There's stuff out there that understands boys and that will allow for them. So I think if you're feeling stuck, or maybe you don't have those kind of options near you, at the very least advocate for your son at the school. So talk to the teachers, talk to the administrators. What can they get? Like fidget spinners or maybe the things you kick with your feet at the desk. Have you seen those?
Speaker 3:so that you're still allowed a little bit of movement. Still allowed a little bit of movement, you know. Go to your parent teacher association meetings and advocate for keeping the recess, maybe extending recess, making sure gym class at least is a priority. Just meeting boys basic needs, because I think it is crazy to expect of them, biologically, the same thing as we do for girls. They're just not wired for it. And then they start to, you know, as they get older. Then they're just retreating into video games or screens or they're just in their own world. Hopefully it's just something that we can prevent, right, and just thinking, all right, this is our season, this is our school or our environment. How can I make changes for him that he can get the most out of this?
Speaker 2:That's awesome and I think there's something to be said for yes, if it's a respect issue, like we instill respect with our children. We don't want to be permissive for everything and allow them to be disrespectful children, but there is a fine line in there. It is OK, as parents, to have this posture of if my child gets called into a meeting for not putting down an airplane or for fidgeting too much in class, or for interrupting too much class or for interrupting too much, it is okay to advocate and say well, how long was he sitting in a seat before you know how that him interjecting or him getting up is him communicating. I can't sit here any longer. This is not how I was wired to be, and so as parents, and especially as Christian parents, it is okay to advocate for our children when it's a trivial thing like that and it's going against the grain, but it's needs to be done. Do you want to say something?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wanted to ask.
Speaker 1:I mean, obviously we've talked about there's a cultural pressure on how our boys need to be more docile and submissive.
Speaker 1:There's a quote, unquote listen to the experts at the school where we're kind of handing off our parenting, so we feel that pressure. And then you see the other extreme too, where some parents are just like my kids can do no wrong and they'll defend their kids on every little thing. Do you think that sometimes part of it is for parents that it's just it's easier just to say sit down, be quiet, and so it's an easier path traveled, because I feel like it's more challenging to understand the nuance of how God created our kids to be to challenge but be respectful. And I've likened it and our listeners have heard me say this before, but it's like Superman with Jonathan Kent is that God created all of us with gifts and with a superpower and created boys a certain way and, just like you know, superman, when he was a kid, his dad, jonathan Kent, was teaching him how to control his superpowers on. You know, you need the superpower to save the bus that went off of the bridge that you see in Smallville, if you ever watch Smallville.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And. But also, if there's an elderly lady and you're giving her a hug or you're giving your mom a hug, like you can't crush them to death because you've got all this super strength, so there is like this nuance. I feel like it's more. It's a more difficult way of parenting and sometimes that's why we also just fall in line because it's easier. Do you feel that way?
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I think we're going to choose our heart. So which heart are you going to choose? You know, the heart of advocating and getting in there and fighting for your son, or the heart of just going with it and being like well, the experts must be right and they said this I'm just going to hope it works out. But a year later nothing's changed and your son's just not doing well. So it's choose your heart.
Speaker 3:It's just the responsibility we have once we have children is we're responsible to raise them. You know, by God's word, and that's the example that we have to follow, and it's not easy. No matter which way you go, I've seen families fighting for their sons and I've seen families that are just going with the flow. Either way, it's not an unchallenged path and it's going to be hard, but we want to fight for our sons, for the future of our nation and our legacy and yeah, for God's plan for their lives. I don't think just going with the flow and hoping it works out for the best will end up with God's best will for their lives. Probably won't.
Speaker 1:I love that. Choose your heart. It's so true because if you take the approach now, then we're left with the mess that we have now in today's culture of we're missing masculinity, we're missing leaders, we're watching the enemy gain ground. So that is the hard we're getting. It's like your health If you don't take care of your body and eat healthy and exercise like you're going to get sick. So choose your heart. Do that. Yes, I love that.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have two more questions, but we're going to go with the controversial one first, which this topic could be an episode in itself. I want to talk about screens and medications. I personally feel and see that boys, specifically, are medications, are being so pushed on them because of these behaviors. It has happened for our own son and it's been an uphill battle where we really had to be firm in what we believed for our son and his behavior of very early on, with his crazy personality and strong will.
Speaker 2:We were told, he told we think he has ADD, we think that he could benefit from medications and we chose to took the road of no, we're not going to do that. He's a boy, he's going to be outside. We're going to fix it that way. We're going to correct his diet and eliminate things that way and then if we're still having severe issues that are actually issues and not just annoyances because the teacher prefers it other ways, then we'll there's absolutely room for medication. But I'm wondering your thoughts on that, and I think screens go into that same conversation, because right now our kids are sent to school. They're given a laptop by the school. All of their classes are done on the laptop. Their homework is done on laptop, and so not only are screens a big part of their day. I feel like that plays into the behavioral issues.
Speaker 3:First off, I admire you. You have walked this road, you have lived it. I mean, you've already done some of the hardest things, which is going against. You know what was recommended and what the so-called experts have for you, so well done. But yeah, I think the biggest thing we're facing here is maintaining the boys drive. So Dr Leonard Sacks, who wrote Boys Adrift, says the greatest risk of medications is the loss of their drive. Now, if they're on it for years and you want to take them off, can they get it back? Sure, and I have a chapter at the end of my book about how to kind of start over when the light has been out in their eyes. But just incrementally you start to see your boys' interests. Like I said, their drive, their motivation, their initiative. That kind of thing really starts to go out the window when you're messing with those chemicals in their brain. So sure, they might get better grades for a while if they're on the meds and they get a better report, but what is that costing them? What is that costing their future when he's 20, when he's 25, when he's 30? What is that going to take away from him then?
Speaker 3:Michael Gurian, another researcher I quote in the book really advocates against medicating young children, when it is usually and he says this 80, 90% of cases, it is usually some other issue. It is not a true chemical imbalance, it is not a disease. I love that Matt Walsh said that phrase. Boyhood is not a disease. And if again, if we're looking backwards over time, decades past, when have we ever needed big pharma to parent? When have we ever needed their help to do a good job? Parenting it is. The system itself is broken. It just wasn't meant for boys and it doesn't like boys, and so medication is a way that boys are being forced to survive in a broken system.
Speaker 1:I can speak to that because that's what happened to me as a kid. I I was, you know, I'm a boy and I was. I had extra energy and I needed to move and that was completely me and I didn't do well in school. Um, and my sophomore year in high school, um, my English teacher, who I loved, she was a sweet lady, but she recommended and this was a different time too that, before more stuff has come out that I get tested for ADHD. And I took the test and it came out that I did quote unquote have ADHD. They put me on Adderall and I did do good. That first year Actually it was my freshman year because then it was my sophomore year I did do well. I went from my freshman year of having I even got a D in a class and I'm still convinced to this day that the teacher only gave me a D because she wanted to get rid of me.
Speaker 1:Um because there's no way I should have passed that class and I ended up getting straight A's my sophomore year and I was more focused, and so I, we were. I was convinced that it worked and then, years later, I let me get out of high school and it's like I just started to like feel the effects of being on the medication and would you say, like how she's talking about the light was gone, like, yeah it like it hurt.
Speaker 1:It did hurt a lot of my drive um and my. It got rid of my appetite even at the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've seen it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was just a lot of side effects from it and even like my confidence and mental, I wouldn't say like I got depressed from it, but it was just it, did it, just it messed with my mentality and so, because I had that experience, that was one of the reasons that we were like, no, we're not doing this with our kid, we'll help coach him through it and look at diet, and that's the thing, too is just like you said. I would argue that there just I mean, with the statistics that you that you just mentioned from the book, that there's almost never a time for for medication, for for this it is diet, it is environment, it is exercise.
Speaker 2:But again, almost never, but again it's easier.
Speaker 1:It's easier. That's what all of the a lot of this comes down to. That, too is that it's just it's easier to say sit down, be quiet, fall in line. It's easier to give people a pill, you know? I mean, that's where we're at now in every regards to health. It's like, hey, just take this magic pill and everything will be fine. We want instant gratification.
Speaker 2:I think there's something to be said about sin too. We're fallen humans.
Speaker 2:We're kids are sinners. So I think it is. It's choosing your heart again of it's. We're going to have to correct our children and it's going to be hard regardless. And our kids are sinners and sometimes the behavior is hyperactivity in boys, sometimes it's just because they're flat out sinners and regardless how we address that matters. And so, yeah, I think that's important to mention. Um, that's right. Yeah, something on your sheet.
Speaker 2:This is one of the last questions I know we've kept you for a while. Oh, this is great. Yeah, so much. It says one of the points that we could have chosen to talk about, which this could have been the entire episode, but it says empowering parents to walk in confidence, trusting God's design for their sons. Love for you to take that statement and pour that wisdom and confidence into the parents out there who you know, like Corey was mentioning, have kids that the teacher is saying yeah, we, this is difficult. You should maybe get him tested. Consider medications I know we've briefed over this, but if you could just sit down and have coffee with that parent out there who's feeling this, like, my kid is probably going to need to be on medications. The school is having trouble and I don't know what to do next, like. But yet we're sitting here saying God's design for these boys is different than what the world is telling us. What would you say to that discouraged parent out there?
Speaker 3:That's good, yeah, and you've contributed so much to this too. You guys have lived this and lived the story right alongside other parents walking through this. I would just want to assure them that God has a plan for your son's life. God has a plan for your family and it doesn't necessarily involve medicating the life and the drive out of them and relying on pharmaceuticals and doctor's appointments and visits for psychological behavior treatment. Right, it is just a matter of understanding. Your son is valuable. How he's wired is God's design and you're going to have to advocate for him.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry this is happening. I know it's like why? Why do I have to face this? Why can't he just go in and be in the class like the other students? Well, there's a plan for this and he's going to come out on the other side of this better than before. If you're willing to, like we said, choose your heart, stick it out, fight for him. This kid's going to be a leader. You know, and every. I want every boy to have the opportunity to reach their full potential in Christ, for God's plan for their life, and it may start out with them making waves when they're little. It may start out with them pushing back. It may start out with them being labeled or being the problem child in the class. But if you can just take our word for it, it's going to be okay. But you're going to have to fight for him. Go against the grain, do things differently than you ever thought. I never saw myself here, but here I am and I want to help other boys too.
Speaker 2:That's amazing and one more piece of encouragement. I could just end on that question and it would be incredible, but I'm just sitting here thinking about myself as a boy mom and my friends who I'm so close with and their boy moms, and just what I want to say is okay, you, rebecca, you homeschool your boys. You've got it all figured out. It's sunshine and rainbows right Every. You homeschool your boys and you've got it all figured out. It's sunshine and rainbows right Every day. Homeschooling is beautiful. You have boys playing in the yard and frolicking and obviously this is sarcasm.
Speaker 2:So I just want you to share about that because, as I was preparing for this interview this morning, I'm downstairs, I have a 13-year-old boy and then a one-year-old son, who we just adopted, and as I'm preparing breakfast he broke a mason jar. He's literally every second of the day trying to kill himself. I mean, I've been like, yeah, is he?
Speaker 1:is wild at heart, completely embodied yes.
Speaker 2:So just that encouragement of yes, everything that you're saying is is beautiful and true, and I could not agree more but the encouragement of a real snapshot into the day of your life at home with your boys, so that us moms out here know this, that we're not alone in it.
Speaker 3:You're definitely not alone. Yeah, I've had days that felt like they lasted forever. You know when John would be at work and he'd come home and he could just tell I was dead. You know when John would be at work and he'd come home and he could just tell I was dead. You know, I feel like I've had seasons like that, months like that, even years when my older son was younger. He was very strong willed and he's still strong willed, but I feel like, by God's grace, we have managed to take it from an angry rebelliousness, which it was God's grace. We have managed to take it from an angry rebelliousness, which it was, into a focused leader type of strong, and that is just by God's grace.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's not always perfect. It never has been. There's still hard days Gosh, help me with math but we're doing it, we're sticking together and, yeah, I just want to encourage the families listening that it's not about being perfect. I've made a ton of mistakes, things I wish I could redo, and there's grace for that. And I don't feel like there's any behind If you're listening and you think, well, my kid could never do that, he's already XYZ. We're just so behind. How do we start over. You can absolutely start from where you are, knowing what you know today, and make small steps to you know, just help your son be able to reach his full potential. I think that just the power of family culture is really underestimated and understated and it actually means so much Work on your marriage. Have a date night, play games with the kids, have a movie night, do pizza night. Just pour into your family and see your kids come alive. It's not going to be perfect, but we'll be a little better today than we were yesterday, right?
Speaker 2:That's gold right there. This is the season of pouring into our families, and that is right where God has us, so so good. Is there anything that you would like to add?
Speaker 1:No, because anything else I add is going to make this turn into like a long format and be like a four hour long podcast.
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, rebecca, this conversation has been so incredible, so encouraging to my heart and I know it will be to our listeners out there. So I just want to thank you, one for your time today and two just for your obedience in this path, because and I'm not saying that people who choose public school is taking the easy road because we are public school parents currently but in your scenario, you could have chosen the easy road to swim with the going with, the stream going with, and instead you chose obedience to where God was calling you and because of that, you are now able to pour into other families who are walking the same path. So I just want to thank you so much for that and for your time today. What a blessing it's been.
Speaker 3:Thank you, Bethany.
Speaker 2:Thanks Corey, I appreciate it, and then your book is coming out today as this airs. So that would be what. September 16th, yeah, where can people find you? I, if you're okay, to share the YouTube channel we were talking about earlier? I think that would be great for our male listeners, and female as well.
Speaker 3:So good, would be great for our male listeners, and female as well. So good. And then about where to get the book. Absolutely, thank you. It'll be on Amazon Prime or just yeah, amazon, tuesday, september 16. My website is Rebecca levelcom, or boyhood resurrectedcom as well. And yeah, my husband John leads the biblical masculinity values based community called Warrior Poet Society. You can find him on YouTube there, and also he pastors our church plant called Grace City, rome. You can find that on YouTube also.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Yeah, go check it out. Guys. All the fellas out there, go and look up John. There's a lot of good, good clips and videos, hopefully encouraging you.