A Force To Be Reckoned With
A Force To Be Reckoned With
242. What Makes a True Leader? with Dale and Brian Karmie Pt. 2
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Welcome back to A Force to Be Reckoned With for Part Two with Dale and Brian Karmie.
Last week’s conversation was just the beginning. This week, we’re diving even deeper into leadership, growth, and what it really means to become a person of impact—not just in business, but in the way you live and lead every day.
If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, go catch up first. And be sure to check out Impact Without Limits for more from Dale and Brian.
What Are We Really Fighting
SPEAKER_02We are at war, and it's not against our neighbors, spouses, children, politicians, or whatever else we feel like we're battling against.
SPEAKER_05So the questions are: who's to fight against? And are we winning or losing? We're the advocates, and we are a force to be reckoned with. Are you ready to join the force?
SPEAKER_02All right, welcome everybody. This is the second episode of two. So if you didn't listen to last week's episode, go back and listen and then rejoin it here.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I want to talk about that a little bit because I I mean I you've mentioned it throughout the episode, not explicitly, but I think relationships play a big piece. And we've talked about parenting and your relationships with your kids and even with what you were just saying now. And maybe when somebody um does mess up or they don't meet the expectation, you don't just pull the reins back and do nothing. You said this earlier, you have that conversation. But I think the conversation comes with already a baseline of a relationship there. So I just want to talk about relationship building as a leader or as a parent and how important that is in somebody you're trying to develop.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's it's critical to earn trust for the person that you're leading, whether it's a kid or somebody on your team, to know that you really love them, care about them, and have their best interest at heart. And without a relationship, it's really hard for them to ever feel that, even if it's true, right? Even if if I really do want what's best for them, if I haven't built a relationship with them, they don't feel that or sense that or have a comfort. Like, okay, you know, what what Brian or Dale are saying, it's it they they really do care. So if they're saying this, it must be for a good reason and they can accept that adjustment or correction or whatever. So um I think we're very intentional about that. And some of it is again, we just like people, like we we enjoy people, and so we want good relationships, and and you know, we'll we're intentional about creating relationships. Um but doing that, I think gives you the ability to speak into somebody's life. You know, if you try to speak into somebody's life, I you know, it's a little bit different, but you know, Angie always tells me or I tell her, you know, we talk about it, and and unsolicited advice is nagging, right? Right. If if if you go to somebody and you say, Hey, you're doing this wrong, right? If it's just out of the blue, hey, Corey, you you're you're doing this wrong, it it feels like you don't want to hear that and you're not gonna accept that. But if we've got a good relationship and and you know I want what's best for you, and I come over and say, Hey, Corey, I saw this, this doesn't look quite right, it has a whole different feel to it, right? And at that point, it may not technically be solicited, you may not be asking. I might have to give a correction that you haven't asked for, but there's a but you understand the baseline. You you we have that relationship and you know that hey, Brian's not saying this to be a jerk, he's and and I tell like sometimes I'll say this is a really hard thing for me to address. This is a hard thing to say. You'll see it's a comfortable yeah, I'll say this isn't a comfortable conversation, yeah. But I feel like I need to share this with you. Here's what I'm seeing.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I don't know if that works well or not.
SPEAKER_02It feels like it does. I feel like again, personally, I've watched you.
SPEAKER_05Does it work?
SPEAKER_02What'd you say?
SPEAKER_05I think you've had a lot of those. So does it work?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, but I think in those moments, it also again it that helps strengthen the relationship and it helps you to earn trust. You know, if I have a a leader that, you know, I made a mistake and I own up to it, but you like you guys said earlier, you're not pointing the finger and putting all the blame on me, but you're willing to get your hands dirty and help me clean up the mess that I made, that earns trust and that earns you the right to then continue to speak into my life. And that is another thing that I've also appreciated about you guys is when I have made mistakes, you get in the trenches and get your hands dirty with me.
SPEAKER_05As opposed to like just stripping that right away and saying, All right, well, you've proven you can't do it, so you're no longer gonna do it.
SPEAKER_02Right, and then going to the person and saying, like, ah, you know what, I'm sorry, it was he did this, he shouldn't have done that to the throw and throw me under the bus. Yeah, yeah.
Praise Publicly, Critique Privately
SPEAKER_00And I've watched you do that with many people. Yeah, and I mean, another component of that is praise in public, critique in private, right? Like if if I'm gonna correct somebody, I don't want to do it in front of everybody, whether that's in front of the customer or in front of a team member or whatever. I mean, there are am I perfect at that? Absolutely not. I get told I don't praise enough. I'm gonna work on that one. Really? I can practice over if you want to skip. But you know, you I I do want to so when you praise in public, it does a couple things. One, it makes like if we're having a company meeting and I say, Man, Corey just knocked it out of the park with um a customer, right? He he he I mean, I'll I'll do it right now. I will. Um, not because you were seeking it, but we had we had some dealers come work a trade show with you, um, and their dealers have been with us for decades, and they were like, Wow, he is really good. Like the way he interacts with customers, his his knowledge base, the you know, his his love for forever. Like he he is great in that environment. Um and so, but praising you in public does a couple things, right? One, it makes you feel good because other people are seeing it, but then two, it's telling everybody else this is the good standard, right? And so this is what we want to come after, and then correcting, like if there's something that we need to talk about, I'm not gonna do that in public. I'm gonna defend you and and as best I can say, uh, you know what, I know Corey, that isn't his and take three D's, right? Three D's defend, well, disarm, defend, and define. And then in private, I'm gonna say, hey, listen, I think we could have handled this differently. Here's what we could have done. And again, are we perfect at that? Absolutely not, but in that's the intent.
SPEAKER_05So you're good at it.
SPEAKER_00That's what we pursue.
The Cost Of Deep Relationships
Family In The Workplace Dynamics
SPEAKER_01So I want to talk about the relationships because there's another side to that. And again, this is uh for me uh an area I really struggle with, and that is you build the relationships, it's key to build and develop relationships. Um, but the deeper those relationships are sometimes that makes my job harder when there is something that has to be addressed, when something does go outside the guardrails, when you see there's a problem, it's like, how do I say it? I'm a guy, I don't like confrontation, I don't like conflict. And so maybe there's a situation where whether you're a team member, you're a dealer, you're a customer, you're a vendor, whatever it is, and I have to have a hard conversation. Maybe I have to correct something, maybe I have to end the relationship and I know it has to be done, but there's that relationship there. What's gonna happen with that? There's the conflict there, there's the you know, it's not very kind, it's not very loving of me to call this out. Sometimes that's the most loving thing there is to say, This isn't right. We have a problem, it needs to be addressed, what have you. And I've I had coffee this morning with a good friend, and we were talking through that situation, and he's in leadership as well. And we both were talking about being those situations where your gut tells you, and I'm just gonna use an example. There was, you know, maybe there's a team member and and you something happened, you have to let them go. And you know that's where it's headed, and you don't. And you put it off because you care, because you love them, because of the relationship, and you don't, and all that happens is you prolong the inevitable because you know where it was headed, and damage gets more, situations get worse, ancillary problems come into play, and and you ultimately maybe you wind up there anyway. Um those relationships make that hard. But it doesn't mean you don't build the relationships. All it means is it can it build trust, it makes things better, it does all these good things on one side, but it can make those difficult calls to leadership harder. And that's where as a leadership leader, you have to be willing to step into those roles and and even do the hard things in love, in caring.
SPEAKER_00Anytime you've got a relationship, right, you're putting yourself out there and you're extending a chance to be hurt, right? Either hurt because maybe I've invested in this relationship and they leave, or invested in this relationship and and now I have to have a hard conversation. And and you know, we we a while ago we talked about that, you know, we hate the saying uh it's not personal, it's just business, right? Because it is garbage, right? Everything is about people, right? And and if I'm not willing to engage on that personal level, I don't know, I'm just gonna keep it a business transaction. Right.
SPEAKER_01Well, then yeah, I might be protecting myself from that potential harm of a relationship that I mean I mean we've had have have you made bad business decisions or bad decisions because you didn't want to address a personal conflict, a personal issue. You're speaking like you already know the answer.
SPEAKER_00Of course I have, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I know my answer. Yes. Yeah. And step in it. That that that honestly, that is that that is probably my biggest struggle in leadership. Is well the easy thing, and the good things are are easy to do even when they're challenging, and struggles are you fight your way through and knock me down, I'll get back up. But when it involves something that feels like you're breaking a relationship, it's just goddamn.
SPEAKER_00And this this is this is a place that I've uh tried and had to really grow because the truth is the pain is gonna be there and it's only gonna get worse, right? So addressing it early, but addressing it in speaking truth in love is critical. And if you can do that well on the front end, you save some serious pain on the back end for yourself and for that other person. And so that's a really hard thing, but I think a really important thing is to get good at speaking truth in love and and and doing like why am I telling you this? Am I telling you for my own benefit or for yours? And if it's for yours, uh man, I've gotta do it early.
SPEAKER_02How much more does that play into the fact that there's what 30, 40 people at our office that are family members?
SPEAKER_00I don't know if there's that many. I don't know. I'm just guessing. It's close.
SPEAKER_01I think we counted like 27. It's close to it's close to 30. It's close to 30.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, it's hard.
SPEAKER_01It is. Yeah, that's that's that's difficult.
SPEAKER_02I think a lot of people struggle with working with families.
SPEAKER_01And I'll and I'll also tell you, and I don't know that outsiders see it this way, but we're again referring back to our conversation with Kenny Thomas, we're talking about coaching your kids, and and he said it, and most anybody that's coached your kid has probably said this. If you're a good coach, you're harder on your own kid than you are anybody else on the team. You have to be because you're under scrutiny and people are expecting that you're not that you're going to favor that. And uh I try to do it. And people on the outside can judge whether I do or not. But um, whether it's my brother's Ken and Jim, whether it's my kids or Brian's kids, or even really hard on your nephew, yeah, really hard, right? Uh, we we have to be willing to hold them to the same standard and maybe even hold them to that higher standard because of that. Yeah, and that that creates difficult situations. Being having a family business and then, you know, families and extension of families and relations, and that's tough. Yeah, it is tough.
SPEAKER_02How big of a challenge is it to switch that on and off between when we're at work and when we're having family get togethers and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_00You know what's right. I try not to give you nogies in the office, but at the house, man, boom.
Boundaries At Home And Work
SPEAKER_01If you ever give me a noogie, yeah, you you know, um it look for everyone is our life. And um, you know, you say a lot of times when you're with your family and just a normal family getting together, what do people talk about? They talk about what they do, and so when we get together as a family, we're all at work and then we're home, and then if we're talking about work, or if we're talking about what we do, we're talking about all the time we spent back at work. And sometimes it's like you have to be intentional about saying, let's just not talk about that.
SPEAKER_05And then you're sitting there like, how do you like the weather?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, how about those bears? And right, so um, I mean, I I love that we're all you know involved uh in in the business and we all have these connections, and it doesn't make being together awkward at all, but sometimes I'm I'm there and it's just shop talk. Yeah. And I kind of want to withdraw from that and say, like, well, let's can we just for multiple reasons talk about something that isn't work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, one, because we want a break from that and I want them to have a break.
SPEAKER_01I don't want somebody feeling like they have to talk to me. They have to talk to me. Like we'll we'll go out to it'll be an evening, and and we're sitting at home, and you know, my kids all work for me, and then my kids' spouses uh uh both work w with us, and then uh Jen Lee's fiance works with us, and and sometimes you're sitting there and somebody will will start talking to you about work related, and it's like do you feel a responsibility to do that? Like, are you asking because you think you have to because I'm here?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Or do you really need the answer to this question? And I don't mind talking to anybody about Foreverlone anytime, but it's like sometimes I need a break, and and I want you to know you can take a break. Just because I'm there doesn't mean you have to feel obligated to tell me this is what happened today. So it gets it gets interesting.
SPEAKER_00And also in some of our bigger family gatherings, not everybody is a part of Foreverline. So I don't want to just make it about Foreverlone and then have those people feel excluded. So the three people over in the corner.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, they're excluded already. No, that's not true.
SPEAKER_00No, but I mean I really do.
SPEAKER_01Like I I want it to be about something else, like but how awkward is it if you have a whole group of family together and nobody's talking about what they do or the success they had or the good things that happened that way.
SPEAKER_05Right there. If nobody's talking about it, so it's interesting.
SPEAKER_01I don't know that I even answered what you said, but it's an it's an interesting dynamic, and it doesn't bother me at all, but sometimes it's just like I'd love to just say, Yeah, let's talk about the game.
SPEAKER_00It's messy, but it's a good messy.
SPEAKER_02I feel like you guys have handled it pretty well, you know. Bouncing, you know, we no, I feel like they have, just from don't you think, from our own personal experience? Well, what's she gonna say now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I think they did a terrible job.
Millennials, Gen Z, And Communication
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I feel like the whole family does it pretty well, actually. They know how to bounce back and forth. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05All right, I'm shifting gears.
SPEAKER_02Do it.
SPEAKER_05We're getting close to the end. Got some rapid fire questions. This first one isn't really rapid fire, actually, none of them really are, but they'll be quicker. So the but we're speaking to millennials and younger generations. You aren't necessarily on your podcast, but in probably every dealership, there is a millennial or younger people that millennial aren't that young anymore. I just want to we're so pretty young. Okay, I know we're not. But I want you guys to speak into what you guys see, maybe people our age who are in leadership roles. One thing that you see that they can do better, and one thing that you look at our generation and you're like, okay, this is different, but it's actually a a good difference and something we're doing well.
SPEAKER_01All right, so what they can do better, communicate. Oh man, that that was mine. I mean, use capitals. Okay, so like use sentences, use commas, don't talk like you're texting, don't text, don't email like you're texting, uh, just communicate, uh spell words right. Uh I so many, so many people come in and it's like, oh my goodness, is that an interview? Then that's that's what you got, right? So to me, it's communicate. Uh uh go ahead.
SPEAKER_00I was just gonna throw mine on. I was gonna use communicate, but you got to it before me. The other one I'll say is critical thinking. We've been talking a lot about AI, and so many people are just like accepting whatever spit out at them as truth. It's not. You've got to have critical thinking to say that doesn't make sense. Let me dig deeper and find facts and being willing to dive deeper. Um, I think it's interesting because I think there's a segment of this younger generation that is really hungry for truth, but there is a segment of this new generation that is just accepting whatever spit at them.
SPEAKER_05And it's scary.
Critical Thinking And Curiosity
SPEAKER_01And so on the positive side, I would say I think there's uh I I don't know, like an energy or uh an excitement for for life or what they're doing that that I think the the millennials and the Gen Z can have that it's just like they they they bring a burst of uh uh a burst of fresh air, burst of life into a room. And kind of the counter of what you said about uh in and I agree about you know thinking, critical thinking. Um I I can be with and it's Derek generally, Colton, Kaelin, or people in the office or whatever, and and I kind of pos a thought, you know, it's a this is an example, but you know, I wonder how many potatoes um people consume in the US and they they instantly get the answer, or there's no time for wonder. They that's they they find the knowledge. I uh you sometimes there's right, you said time for wonder. You you have this thought, and we come from a generation where uh maybe I'll figure that out someday. Yeah, and I I sense this desire to know out of the the the younger generation, then you will Gen Z. If you post something out there, they want to find the answer and they know they have access to all this information and they go and find it. I I mean I think that is a powerful um like we used to have to go to libraries and encyclopedias and stuff. Yeah, um, but with that comes that warning just because you looked it up doesn't mean it's right.
SPEAKER_02I I asked Chat GPT the other day how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop because I'm like, did anybody ever actually figure this thing out? And there was like three universities that did studies, and their answers were all vastly different, all over the place. But the commercial popped on TV, and I was like, I wonder how what was the answer on the commercial?
SPEAKER_04Three three it was three, but they bit it two. It's like how many licks does it actually take?
SPEAKER_02Three.
Purpose, Impact, And Meaningful Work
SPEAKER_00I don't want to sit here and lick the Titsie Pub all day long, let's figure this thing out. Um, I I'd give my quick a positive there, I I think with this younger generation is purpose or impact. Like, I I think there was a a generation that came through. You know, I'm I'm Gen X, and so you know, we were kind of that last generation, I think, in between there, but maybe the generation before was very task-oriented. I'm gonna get a job, do a job, this is my thing, and then like I'm gonna live my life outside of my job, where you know, job was producing money, it was that industrial manufacturing type concept, yeah, and then life outside. Um, I think this generation is is weaving in purpose with what they do on a daily basis for for producing income. And I think that's important. You know, we we come back to our, you know, why it's we want to be people of impact and create people of impact. And I think that resonates with this younger generation.
SPEAKER_01We'll find out if it resonates. And Bethany gives us the stats on our podcast.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Do we have age?
SPEAKER_01Do we have like age segregation on whose name? That would be interesting.
SPEAKER_05Um, yeah, that's interesting. And there's a really good book. Actually, I think I might have asked you to read it like a long time ago. The Passion Generation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I didn't read it.
SPEAKER_05Really good. It's it's about that. You just said that we care about passion and it's about discipling those that generation. So anyway. Um, but okay, so just share maybe the most I know it's hard. Not there's not one most impactful book, but like in the realm of leadership, first one that comes to your mind, and maybe like the most influential leader. Can you? Share those. Just for somebody to start diving in the case.
SPEAKER_01So can I do two? And I'm going not Bible-based.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01Number one is George Washington. Yeah. I just what that man did is so remarkable. And I've I'm not a student of his. I haven't studied books upon books, but I I am an admirer. And I have read several books and and you know just learned about what he really did from growing through the ranks to lead the army uh to inspiring men who were in the worst conditions they could possibly, fighting in insurmountable odds, to then you know going through the the Continental Congress and then being selected president and and leading a nation in a way that never been done before, and then after two terms laying it down and being willing to walk away when they they wanted him to be king. Uh just loved George Washington. And the other one for me is Fred Carby.
SPEAKER_05Sorry, he's still on all your answers. I mean you can say dittos, hands down, yeah.
SPEAKER_01My my dad exemplified uh so much grit, hard work, determination, uh just yeah, so impactful that I never even met him, and his legacy still drastically impacts my life.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00So since he took the people, I'll say ditto on that and I'll take the books. But I'll also say um I'm gonna say dad and mom. And and the the reason I say I think dad gave us the grit, the hard work, the you know, faith in action um from a business standpoint. Mom gave us the love, the servant, like putting others first, true sacrificial, true sacrificial love. Absolutely, and just um, so I'm I'm gonna say both of them. Um on the books, um, and there are so many. Um, but I had to uh uh Jim Collins was probably the most impactful author for me. Good to great was the first book um that just it was just I don't know, it was just an amazing book to me. But I mean, he's got a series of that books there, you know, Good to Great, um Built to Last, um, Great by Choice, How the Mighty Fall. And then one of his most recent books, so his original book was called Beyond Entrepreneurship. And then a few years ago, he wrote that with a mentor of his. And then more recently he wrote BE Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0, which took excerpts of his all his books throughout the years and put them into the Beyond Entrepreneurship. So if I were to say one book, although it's probably the most recent book of his I've read, the BE 2.0 kind of takes all that work and summarizes a lot of it. So really good book.
SPEAKER_05I'm a I'm ashamed to say I haven't read a book of his.
Legacy, Faith, And Lasting Impact
SPEAKER_00Jim, I just you know, I I heard Jim Collins at one of the first global leadership summits I went to in 2007 or 2008. Um, but actually I had read Good to Great, I think even before that. I think Good to Great, I I read right when we were starting for Everlone. And um just it was it would and and you know anything that's like the first thing you do is more impactful, right? Your first day of school is more memorable, you know, the first time you go on a date, your first kiss, whatever it is. Um, so for me, the first like business book like was Jim Collins.
SPEAKER_05How to win friends and influence people. Yeah. I just read it again this year, and it's so still so good, but it was like one of the first personal development books I ever read, and I still like it's just so impactful.
SPEAKER_00By Dale Carmeggy. See what's going on there? There you go.
SPEAKER_05All right, last question. And then, yeah, I mean, we've covered so many incredible things today, and it's been great. But when you think about the next 10 years and your legacy and your leadership, what do you hope that it leaves behind? Yours specifically. So Brian Carmi, Dale Carmy.
SPEAKER_01There's nothing speed about that. Um look, I I I'm I I hope it is said that I made a difference. Right? That that that I made an impact and a positive impact. How do you define that? Well, as a Christian man, first of all, uh an impact uh in the world for Christ, that people hopefully saw Christ in me and saw Christ through me, and that somewhere along the way lives were touched and lives were changed because I was here and able to do that. Uh and then what I what I leave behind the legacy is my family. Business is great, uh, what what we do with the business is great, that that's gonna pass, but uh the the family is going to continue and um uh I hope, and and like everything has starts and everything ends, but I hope the Carmi Army, Carmi's army lives long after we're gone, and even if names change and there aren't Carmies anymore, I hope there is still the Carmi Army or Carmies Army out there. Um and uh selfishly, I hope I hope I'm missed. Right? That was a deep thought.
SPEAKER_05Well, it feels morbid to say, but you will be mad. Did he steal your answer again?
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, I mean, look, it it's it's there's a lot of similarities there. It was probably 15 or so I'm not a guy that like wrote down my personal mission statement really. Right. Except one time I was reading a book and and I decided to write some things down. So probably 15 or 20 years ago, I wrote down that um I wrote words that I wanted to describe me, which is an interesting way to do it. And then I wrote um a statement that said, I want to have a positive impact on everyone I come in contact with, both in this life and the next. Right. So everybody that I I have an interaction with, my hope is that in some way their life is improved and and I impact them here and now, but also for eternity, right? So I I hope um that that impact is is you know more than just I I want it not like I want it to be both, a both and, right? I want them to be better in this life, but I also want to have an eternal impact on their life.
Gratitude And Closing
SPEAKER_05That's good. That's powerful, and that's what matters. And I will say that you have made an impact. I mean, I genuinely mean it. I know, I mean, even from this conversation, I feel like every time I'm in the room with you guys, every podcast I listen to, it is such a privilege. And I'm not just saying that for the episode or for you guys, but it genuinely you have made an impact um in my life, in our kids' lives, and Corey's life. And it's just really, I feel very privileged to have you guys as uncles and mentors and all the things. So I'm friends and friends. So I know people are gonna be walking away from this episode feeling very much the same.
SPEAKER_00So and thank you guys because this podcast wouldn't exist without the two of you. Absolutely. If you hadn't been willing to one get into the podcast game and start your podcast first and have a podcast and then start producing podcasts and then encourage us to do the same, we wouldn't be sitting here. Yeah, you stayed on us. I mean, we we pushed back for like a year and a half on this.
SPEAKER_05You did. You didn't even know what a podcast was.
SPEAKER_01I didn't. I knew what a podcast was. I just didn't think that you were imposter since I've truly enjoyed it. Uh yeah, it is. I look forward to this, and um yeah, uh thank you. Thank you for your your diligence and your persistence and yeah, Victoria for being here and and making this and all the editing that making us sound good.
SPEAKER_00There's a lot of editing. A lot of ours, too.
SPEAKER_05Well, thank you guys. We appreciate you so much, and yeah, here's the 2026.
SPEAKER_02Stay classy.