A Force To Be Reckoned With
A Force To Be Reckoned With
250. Success, Cancer, and Calling: Tim Timmons Gets Real
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We sat down with Tim Timmons to talk about I Can Only Imagine 2, some behind-the-scenes moments, and his new book Waking Up Again. But more than anything, this conversation is about what it looks like to actually live with purpose. From his cancer diagnosis to the everyday realities of faith and family, Tim shares what really matters and why we shouldn’t wait to start living fully.
Ministry In The Hard Moments
SPEAKER_02Those moments that you just want to jump off. Those, that's our ministry. Our ministry is joining Jesus in whoever he puts in front of us. Jesus says, Don't worry about tomorrow. Today's got plenty. Just deal with what I put in front of you today.
SPEAKER_00We are at war, and it's not against our neighbors, spouses, children, politicians, or whatever else we feel like we're battling against.
SPEAKER_04So the questions are, who's the fight against? And are we winning or losing? We're the Adkins, and we are a force to be reckoned with.
SPEAKER_03Are you ready to join the force?
SPEAKER_04All right, you guys. Thanks for coming back for another week of A Force to be reckoned with. We're so happy to have you here. And I have been really looking forward to this one. So if you have seen I Can Only Imagine Two, then you've already gotten a glimpse into our guest story. But honestly, the real story goes even deeper. There's so much more than that movie even shares. So today we have Tim Timmins here. Tim was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given just five years to live. And that was over two decades ago, right, Tim?
SPEAKER_0225 years ago. Yep. Wow. Wow.
SPEAKER_04So he's a songwriter, a friend to mercy me, and someone who wrestled deeply with faith, suffering, and what it means to keep showing up when life doesn't just immediately get fixed. So, Tim, thanks so much for being here.
SPEAKER_02Of course. Of course. I made it another day. Let's go.
SPEAKER_04It's awesome. I love it. Do you have your X on your hand today?
SPEAKER_02I do.
SPEAKER_04All right. I almost did one. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02I mean, go for it or find your own. Yeah. There are still tumors on my liver wearing out my heart. That's what they say.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_02And the fact that I got to get an another day today, that's why I keep writing this X and yeah, which we can talk about in this podcast. But yeah, it's pretty, pretty great.
From Public Divorce To Songwriting
SPEAKER_04I'll take it. That's absolutely incredible. So I started this podcast because I genuinely love people's stories, especially the ones shaped through real life, the hard, the unexpected parts. And for a long time, I wrestled with understanding my own purpose and hearing how others navigated their journey through life. It didn't just only intrigue me, but it gave me hope and it reminded me that purpose isn't always linear and it rarely, rarely looks how we expect it to. So with that, that's kind of where I want to start. Most people know you as a musician, a dad, a husband, an author, a lot of different things. But could you take us back a bit and share your story and what has led you to where you are today? Which I know this could be like a whole season, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, watch the movie and read my book. I guess you just do that. No, I gosh, where do you where to where to start? From Orange County, California. And I was a pastor's kid, and it was actually a really great pastor's kid experience up until I was a freshman in high school. And then my parents got separated and divorced, and it was very public. It was like in the papers and newspaper radio, TV. It was kind of a big deal. And so that really was pretty shaping for me. And I think at that point, I was, I had started playing guitar and a little bit of piano and drums. And I just started writing things that I had to say, like things I needed to either pray or get off my chest. And that's kind of where songwriting began for me was this beginning of it gave me an outlet, which uh I guess I needed. I was even thinking about the first song I ever wrote for my sister as she was leaving the house and my parents were like separated. And and um man, those are the things that I needed to say to God and say to the world. And so now I just get to write prayers that other people all over the world get to pray with me. So it's it's a crazy honor. I I um I worked as a pastor for years um in Orange County helped with the music stuff, and I was a varsity American Christian for most of my life. Like so good, better than you guys, better than almost anybody. I mean, I'm just awesome, like super awesome Christian.
SPEAKER_04And were you genuinely like for me? There was a lot of facade there, but you I saw it.
Burnout From Working For God
SPEAKER_02I mean, you ask anybody that knew me and they'd be like, man, that guy's kind of varsity. He's kind of awesome. And the problem was, you know, I wasn't like trying to like put on a facade or like do a thing. I wasn't trying to be that. I just I knew how to do the thing and I was killing at it. And the problem was is that my soul was exhausted. And all the things that I'd been pimping, in a sense, for all these years, like really pushing hard uh and working for God, I just left me so tired. Like my soul was tired. And so that's kind of really the that to me is the beginning of my story. And I mean maybe not the beginning, but it's like the beginning of it really becoming me finding actual life and the fruit of the spirit was probably in that season when it was like, oh, I don't have to work for God ever again. Working for him sucks. I just get to join him in my day. If I'm doing it, you know, my baby's diapers, I'm joining Jesus in the midst of this day. If I am uh get cut off on the road, I'm joining Jesus in the midst of being cut off on the road. When somebody accuses me falsely about of something, I'm I'm doing this in the context of with Jesus instead of for him. So again, that has totally changed my life. And I am forever grateful for how he invited me into that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So like we're in the thick of raising five kids, and a lot of our audience are people, you know, in the same thick of it. They're they're young couples in the same season raising raising kids. And our our generation of millennials, in in a good way, we have this like strong pull towards towards purpose.
SPEAKER_04So do you would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_04Always curious.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. So in that, and I I'd say too, like reflecting back, we lived in Southern California, and our our audience knows our our story a little bit. But when we were in Ohio now, and that's where we're from, but when we moved to Southern California, I felt this a similar thing of like, hey, I mean, I felt God calling us to go out there. We went out to to went out to Southern California, running a business, and I just was like, all right, God, I got it from here. And I felt like I was just like you said, working for God. It's like, all right, God, I'm doing this for you. I'm doing this for you. And I also reached a point of exhaustion there as well. And I had to release that and learn to work with him, right? Just like you said. So um, I guess can you just can you speak more into that now? Cause I feel like there are a lot of people, you know, raising kids and raising parents or in uh in this generation that are like doing it for God, but not allowing him to come alongside them in the day-to-day.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we're so purpose-driven. We're also, I would say, probably one of the most burnout generations, too. And I think that what you're saying has a lot to do with it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And just to go back to your question, do you think you guys are the uh purpose driven? I think you guys are super purpose driven. I think every single uh um generation is purpose-driven at just a different purpose. Like there are different focus it seems to me there are different focuses of those um purposes. And that that would be a really interesting study to see like what does the millennial, what's the purpose like driving the millennial, what's the purpose driving the boomer? What's the purpose driving the X?
SPEAKER_04You know, what would you say to someone who's starting to realize that maybe they've been striving or forcing, like you were talking about in the book? Like you had talked about you were gonna leave your church 10 years prior, and then God kept you there. And then in retrospect, it was like, well, there was a reason for this. So somebody who's forcing or striving and might need to step back and just say, All right, I need to actually join God and where He has me now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, I think the biggest, one of the biggest things for me, and I, you know, at the end of the book, I talk about I don't use a lot of words with ending with ED and a lot of I'm trying to use words with ing ending in ING. Like I'm learning. I don't know if I've learned too much yet. I mean, I'm I'm only 50. And hopefully when I'm if I make it to 80, I'll be like still learning, and I haven't learned, you know, that makes sense. So it I think as I look at purpose and as I look at with versus for, as you look at scripture, the majority of the New Testament, if you just do a word study on the word for and on the word with, it's fascinating. There are a few times when Paul uses the word for, but it's always in the context of with. So it's it's we're so loved by God. I've been so intimately loved by God that then I will do something for. But it's not this just my duty. It almost becomes like a duty to work for God or to do good things for him because he's gonna like me more. And I think that's the trap that I fall into, honestly, just to be vulnerable. Like I have this sense and I've always had the sense that man, I think God has made me to do really great things for him. And that is so dangerous. And it has jacked me up because then I get stuck in this, like, yeah, I want to do cool things for you, God. But then he's also gonna be stoked for me and stoked about me if I do cool things for him. And it just, that's so dangerous. So part of me writing the X to my wrist is I woke up another day, but part of it also is just I'm done working for him. You don't have to like, I mean, this is a whole different conversation. I'm not a big fan of evangelism. I don't see it scripturally. I know that there are Bible verses that people use. I just don't see it scripturally. It like that we Americans talk about it and get all lathered up about it. I think it's just a natural overflow of the spirit in me. Like, I I did I did uh CrossFit for a while. I know you can tell. Um yeah. It's okay. You don't have to tell. That's fine. I stopped when I was doing CrossFit. Like, you know, always know somebody who does CrossFit because they they will tell you. Like, it's just so obvious that you know somebody who does CrossFit. There are zero evangelism classes for CrossFit. You don't need them. Like, nobody needs a freaking class for CrossFit, evangelizing CrossFit. People's lives are being changed, their bodies, they're feeling it. Like in community, they're working through strength and pain, pain and like struggle, but they're doing it together. And it just comes straight out. And I think the same is with evangelism. We get like, you know, I was with somebody the other day and they're talking about a evangelism class. I'm like, that's so great. But like this probably could just be this natural, I don't have to work for them. Like Paul, even Paul, I don't think he did evangelism classes. He actually hit this was his evangelism class. He said, Um, Spirit of God, would you open a door for me to talk about you today? Like, that's crazy cool. Like, that was his whole thing of like, I'm not gonna do this for you, God. I'm just gonna do this with you. So, Holy Spirit, if you're gonna do something cool around here, I'm just gonna join you. And I don't even have to work hard or like try to conjure something up or you know, try to make force some conversation. Like, what if Jesus is the king of his kingdom and knows what's best for his kingdom? And so when we talk about purpose, we go, you know what? I think God, here's the purpose, and I'm gonna tell you what we should do. And I think God's like, man, that's so cool. I'm glad. That's great. Give me some more thoughts. But like, this is what I'm doing, and just join me in it because I'm freaking God. I'm at work in all these things, and I know it's best for my kingdom because I'm the king. Just join me in it. And there's rest there. That's where rest comes from. So if it's a yoke, you're like yoked to the mat, you know, to Jesus in a sense. And then we get to like, then his yoke is easy because we're just cruising with him. But when I work for him, I'm trying to tell him where to go, and it's exhausting. So I mean, you just look at it. Story after story after story of Jesus, and it's like, oh my gosh, he's inviting me into fullness, and that is working and joining him in all these things. So is that kind of answer a little bit? Yeah. So good.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, as you were talking, I was thinking, like when we work for somebody, like we might have a meeting with them, kind of get the marching orders, and then we go out and we're isolated, we're not with them anymore. We're we think we're just doing what the orders that we were given. But when we work with somebody and God's moving, he's already moving. If we just have relationship with him and lock arms with him, then he takes us along for the ride and we do it together. And because when you become isolated, that's when things can get off kilter.
SPEAKER_02Yep. That's where I got off kilter. And and that wasn't anybody else's fault but my own. And yeah, I've got no shame about it. I just was like, man, that's that's interesting. Another thought is as we're thinking of doing something with him or or not with him. In the Old Testament, Adam was the first representer of God. He wasn't a representative of God, which is such a fascinating word. So that there's representative and there's a representer. And what's so cool, I love this language so much, that we are actually the representers of God. Now, I am not Christ, but I have Christ in me. Thus, I have the spirit of God in me. Thus, I am now a representer to this world because I've got flesh. That's what I got. Mm-hmm. I'm not a representative because a representative is like, cool, I got the marching orders, I'm gonna go out here and nail it. Like Adam, he got to name things with God. It was like this really interesting distinction between representative and representer. And that's kind of the word Adam is this representer of, of man, of human, of and so, anyways, that I just love that concept of us being representers of God. Same spirit that raised him from the dead is in me. So I don't have to work for him. I just join him and like see what he's up to. And I'm curious what he's pointing out in my story to go, Timmins. That probably wasn't a beautiful thought. Like, let's let's go here. Let's do this. That's actually not gonna help you. That's actually gonna hurt you and it's gonna hurt your family, and it's just not beautiful. So I want to do it with him instead of for him. So that I just, you know, we could talk about this all day, but I really found so much life when I was so exhausted. I'm now I've got more fruit of the spirit of God than I've ever had before. And it's not because I'm doing my quiet times or like, you know what, I'm really get fitting in my Bible time. It's like, which is great, but like that's not what is giving me hope in life and the fruit of the spirit. So, anyways, just people could just grasp that concept, it's so life.
SPEAKER_04Until you've lived it. And you said that in the in the book too, is like I forget exactly what you were talking about, but the spoolness and the peace that you're talking about, it doesn't come without trial first and without suffering. I don't know. And that's a whole other thing, too. I don't want to get too off track because I know you could you could talk about that, but it's just read the book because we don't want to give too many spoilers either. But okay, so talking, we went and saw the movie. We took our two oldest to see I can only imagine two.
SPEAKER_03How how old are you kids? I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_04So we have our oldest two are 13 and 10. Yeah, we took the 13 and the 10-year-old. So I have to tell you, it was incredible. I loved the first movie. I think this one took the cake for me, though. And it could be because the the song has such special meaning to my heart. But also, you look so much like Milo.
SPEAKER_02I mean, if I can get you recorded saying that, um what I might do is just have you say that one more time for my wife. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I'll send you the video clip.
SPEAKER_02They had to they had to really dumb him down to look like that movie. He was like all buff because he had done some like war movie right before our movie. And I'm like, bro, you might need to eat a few more hot hamburgers. Like, do stop working out for a little bit.
The Cancer Story Behind The Movie
SPEAKER_04I love it. So I do have like a specific question I want to ask, but before I do, I want to bring the audience up to speed a little bit. We talked about you working for the church and you being a worship pastor, but talk a little bit about your cancer diagnosis because I know, I mean, it's been 25 years and so it's been a long stretch of time, but in the movie, you're on tour, which I'm just curious about those timelines and all of that. So if you don't mind.
SPEAKER_02A lot of the timelines are movie magic. They're trying to fit in 20 years of your life into a two-hour thing with a few other stories going at the same time. But like Bart's Bart has five kids. I have four kids, and most of all of our kids are best friends. You know, so like in the movie, he's got all of his kids. I we're just being pregnant, you know. Being pregnant. That's such a cool way of saying that. And so yet movie magic, time magic is all through there. But the heart of everything is there. So Bart was actually in this room in my studio right here, um, in that one scene. It's just, I mean, it and the scene's a little different than how it went, but it's the same heart of all the things. He was kind of, you know.
SPEAKER_04Is are you talking about the scene where you tell me you have cancer?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. At that point, Bart already knew that I had cancer because we were really close friends.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But he was he was in my studio just crying about Sam and this terrible appointment they had just had, and I just had some stuff, but he's like basically, in a sense, internally, like, you don't know what it's like. And then he had this like realization, like, crap, you know exactly what this sorrow's like, you know. So yeah, it was a pretty, pretty wild season. And even how that song happened is just the coolest thing. That's it's part of me not working for God. Part of the beauty of this, well, most of the beauty of this whole thing with the movie and Grammys and all this stuff is that I have not opened a door in 15 years. Meaning I've not made out with somebody to try to get my way. I've not schmoozed, I've not rised. Don't worry about that. I've not been like, I just I haven't done what I know my normal natural is, is to like schmooze you and I could try to get my way.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I quit doing that. When I quit working for God, I also quit working for him and opening doors for him. So it was like I love that.
SPEAKER_03And isn't it such a better life?
SPEAKER_02I was just, it's like, I was exhausted. I was traveling to Nashville trying to get people to like my music, even as this pastor. And it was like everybody liked me and they liked my songs, but nothing was going, nothing was hitting. And I was like, this sucks. God, I'm trying to do cool crap for you, and you're just sitting on your butt doing nothing.
SPEAKER_04So when did it click? Like when did it start to pick up when you fully surrendered?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I wrote a song. So on my first record, um, it's called Only One Standing. It's probably one of my most clutch songs as far as like as I look at my life and the trajectory of my life. It was that song that really began me saying, uh, I surrender all. Would you let my kingdom fall? So yours alone will be the only one standing, you know, at the end of my day. And it was just, it began my ex, to be honest. It was, I got another day, and Jesus, you woke me up again, but I'm done trying to be awesome. I'm done. I'm so freaking done. I'm so tired. We had had we had two kids, two little dudes, Malia and Noah at that point. And I was like, two kids are so hard. I mean, so hard. And it's just it was just a wild season, and I was like, I'm done. I'm done trying to be awesome. Jesus, if you want something cool for your kingdom and it's you know what you're you know what you're doing, then you open those doors. I will walk through any door that you open, I'm just not gonna open it anymore.
How Even If Was Written
SPEAKER_04So it's fascinating. That's fascinating to me because when you watch the movie, I mean, even if aside from I can only imagine is, I mean, it's pretty equal with how popular it became.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so I'm curious, as the movie is unfolding, it's playing in the background, you know, and you are saying you have this melody stuck in your head. Is that pretty accurate? Like how God spoke the song to you?
SPEAKER_02So a friend named Crystal Lewis, we were friends in in California together. And so she came over. I was gonna help her write some stuff, and she brought this verse idea in this song idea. And we ended up writing this song together, and um, and then we then we got to this chorus and found this chorus that was like, uh-oh, this thing is stunning. And she didn't want it for her record, which I was we were writing it for her record. And then I was like, Yes, how great. Because I loved this song. I was like, this is so good. I loved the chorus of this song, is what I loved. And so I went to my label and I said, You guys, this chorus, this song is gonna be so good. I need to finish it, but like it's so good. And they're like, It's not that good. I'm like, you guys are dumb and fat. You know, just some kind of uh so then we didn't, nothing happened. I just said, I'm not gonna open doors, I'm not gonna push open doors or try to make my way because it's not my job.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But Jesus, if you want to do something cool, you open that door. So I had this sense that this song was for Bart, who's my best friend, and that's when Bart was in my studio, like a few months after that. I mean, even at that point, I don't go to my friends and say, Hey, I got a song you should do, because that's just gross. Um, so the fact that Bart said the chorus of the song almost verbatim sitting right here is pretty wild. Like that's just not normal. And so then I ended up just sending him the chorus that Crystal and I had started. Um and then he's like, Is the song done? I'm like, Nope. So then he and I just like within days rewrote this song together. And then then all of a sudden it was their first single, and then it was when I'm sitting at the Grammys, and now there's a movie about it. And so it's it's just so cool. It's so cool. I didn't do anything, I just joined them. That's all I'd had to do.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, it it's it's taking steps of faith, faithfulness, walking in obedience to what God has, the breadcrumbs he's placing in front of you. I think that's just so beautiful. And I just want to say, I had mentioned earlier the song, even if it's such a sacred, powerful song for me. So the song came out in early 2017. And I remember when it came out because we were living out in California, living on an island, running a business on our own. I was working as a nurse. I would drive to work every day as a nurse and I wanted to be home with my kids so bad. And I would just cry to this song. And I loved it so much. Is it the bridge? Is that what it's called? You where it says you've Faithful, you've been good all my days. Jesus, I will cling to you. Come what may is that the okay bridge? Yeah, I mean every time. Like, like so. That's in 2017. Then in 2018, my cousin McKenna, who was our nanny in California, she came home for a season and had an elective surgery and uh passed away from a blood clot at the age of 20. And our family is very big and very close. And um, this song, I didn't even want to listen to it because we spoke truths that I didn't want to hear. Yeah. Like I didn't even want to hear you've been faithful, you've been good all my days. But it got me through because that's the beauty of music. Even when you don't want to hear the truth, that music will speak the truth to you. And actually, when I when I got your book in the mail, I showed it to my uncle and he said the same thing who who lost his daughter. He said, That song was so impactful when McKenna died. So I just want to say thank you for that because hearing the story and seeing the story in movie form of like it's a song in your head and it comes to life. And then the impact, the real impact that it has had on my life personally. And I know you said the same thing. I mean, hundreds of thousands of other people. Yeah, that's really powerful and really cool. And so I guess my question is well, I don't really know, but I think there's a message in that that God will we we all have a purpose here. We've been talking about purpose this whole episode. And for some, it might not be a massive song, but God speaks to each of us individually for various different things. So I'm just wondering if you can speak to the listeners here who need to feel that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yes. Uh I I think we um Christian fame and ostardum is a really dangerous, dangerous thing that we in America think is so awesome. I think it is like kind of antichrist-ish, if you will. You know, I don't think antichrist is a person. I think it's it's a form, it's a way of seeing the world and a way of living it out. And I think this idea that that having a movie or having a big song or, you know, some kind of success in the Christian thing is like what God's like nailed it. You're my guy. You're my girl. I think it's so dangerous. I think so. For years, when I my music was not doing well and I was living more in obscurity, it was such a gift to be able to say, my ministry is not my music. That is something that God uses to give a gift to the world or to just to my mom. But my my ministry is who's in front of me. And one of my friends who's he works at a homeless community here in Nashville. I went up to him the other day and you know, he was like, Man, their movie's so great. You know, it's just, and I said, in the economy of the kingdom of God, bro, I I I'm like, I'm like hanging down at your feet, just going, bro, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. This is the economy of the kingdom. Movie about me, awesome things, accolades is not the kingdom of God. That is the kingdom of this world. And that that is like, I'm getting it all right now. Like, none of none of that's coming. But how we love the people in front of us, the baby that's sitting right in front of you, the baby that's driving you crazy because it's going to wake you up. When we had twins, the other baby that would wake up the baby that we just got to sleep. I mean, you know, just those moments that you just want to jump off. Those, that's our ministry. Our ministry is joining Jesus in whoever he puts in front of us. Jesus says, Don't worry about tomorrow. Today's got plenty. Just, just deal with what I put in front of you today and the stuff that then comes up in front of you today that I didn't actually put in front of you, but I'm with you in it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think that's like that's our purpose. And when I say ministry, I mean more purpose. I'm just gonna go one step further. So if you look at the, we'll just go New Testament. Look for every time the word you is written. I mean, just think of any scriptures that you know and you've memorized in your heart about, and and all of them have a you. I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. And I'm like, oh, Tim Timmins? You know the plans you have for Tim Timmins, the purpose for Tim Timmins in 2026. It was not written to me, it was written to a whole different community of people. But the point is, every you in the New Testament, except for you, Timothy, or you, Barnabas, was written to a y'all. So when you look at the fruit of this, I know I'm good, I'm getting somewhere, and this will be hopefully good.
SPEAKER_03It's great.
SPEAKER_02Our purpose is not for me. My purpose, what I've thought my whole life is I I'm trying to get more fruit of the spirit in my life. And when I say that, I've as I do my quiet times, I do all this stuff, I'm trying to get more fruit of the spirit, as I walk in a step of the spirit so that I will have more joy, I will have more hope, I'll have more peace, patience. But if you look at every one of those words, it's not for us. It's actually for the other. So when you look at the whole project of the New Testament, it's for the sake of the other. So if you want to know what your purpose is, it's for the sake of the other. If I have fruit of the spirit, it is for my kids that I have more joy. It is for my neighbor that I have patience. It is for the person that my enemy that I could not disagree with more on the internet. It's for them. It's not for me. So when we're looking at purpose and we get really lathered up about purpose too, in some ways, like, what's the will of God? Well, it's a blessed your enemy. That's actually what I want. I want you to be able to like join the Spirit of God, walk and step, which is a witness, and bless your enemy. I want you to love the people I put in front of you. If you disagree with them, you don't have to agree with them, just love them. Like, what does that look like? So when I think of purpose, I always go to what's Tim's purpose? And Tim's purpose is for the sake of the whole. And guys, when I've this has been like this mind-blowing thing, rereading scripture with y'all instead of you, and just try it out and go, gosh, okay. So the purpose actually is for us for the sake of the other. So for the sake of the kid in the next room, for the sake of my enemy, for the sake of my neighbor, for the sake of my wife, God, I want to walk in step with your spirit, not for my sake that I get more fruit in me. It's meant for other people. Like an apple is not like cool. Check out cool app I am as an apple. No, it's for the nourishment of the world. So, anyways, little little tangent, but I think when we're talking purpose, purpose is.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's great. And we live in our world is so self-focused, and especially when it comes to purpose and happiness and all of that. And so when we take focus off of ourselves and put it on others, that's where that's what it's really about. And that's I liked what you were saying about um evangelizing because really it's discipleship. Like I love discipleship. We just need to love the people in our around us and disciple them through the way we live.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So yeah.
SPEAKER_02You'll get you'll get to a section there called aiming. And one of my heroes, he talked about this word aiming instead of like mentoring. And I love it. It's like really, I I like I like changing words or just finding like the more deeper meaning in in words. But discipleship, if if people have uh mentored me, nobody's ever mentored me to be like them. They're always mentoring me, and they're aiming me in a direction that God created me to go. And like, what a cool way of looking at that's awesome. I don't need to mentor them because they don't need to be me. Man, they're there's such different, you know, each of your kids is so different. And I'm not mentoring them to be like me. I'm mentoring, I'm aiming them in the way that God created them. And, you know, it's just such a cool way of looking at this because it's always for the sake of the other. It's never for my sake, it's for the sake of the other.
SPEAKER_01I just wanted to add in there just my experience with this too, because we were going to see the movie, and I knew that the like kind of on the peripheral that the movie was out. Um, and then, you know, Bethany told me that we were interviewing you, and I didn't quite know who you were, to be honest. And don't be offended.
SPEAKER_04He doesn't really know who any artists are.
SPEAKER_01Right. But I mean, yeah, I mean, I forget, but but it was so it was special for me because we go to see the the movie and we're sitting there with our kids. We hadn't talked beforehand, we didn't know anything. And that that song, like I I even said to her afterwards, like that was like our anthem song throughout the entire time when McKenna passed. And I had no idea that we were watching the movie about the song with the person who wrote the song, and then we're gonna interview the person who wrote the song. So it was it, I then became very excited to meet you and get to have this conversation. So that was just that was special for me too. Thanks, you guys. So cool.
Practice Jesus In The 10,000 Minutes
SPEAKER_04Okay, so I am gonna ask one more question just to because I want to know. And what I feel like we've we've covered a lot of like alluding to this, but this is in the very intro of your book. You talk about how you have from traveling and touring, you've had a front row seat to the American church, and you've seen how easy it is to practice the ways of Jesus when we're gathered, and then we kind of forget, we scatter throughout the week and we just forget. And that is so real, that faith of Sunday faith, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, check the box.
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh. And we talk about this a lot on the podcast, but then you then tie it into Matthew 7, where it says, the rain came, wind blew, my house was built on you, having that solid, firm foundation. And as we're we've covered so much today that ties into this, but we are a family, like you have a family of four kids, you and your wife, you and Hillary. We are a family who's raising up the next generation. Without that firm foundation, it none of it matters. And then your book kind of ties into seven different categories that help us to live more than that Sunday faith. And there's just so much I we could cover here. I just want to, this is something we see a lot, even in in our small town in Ohio, of people, you know, they identify as a believer, they go to church on Sundays, and then throughout the rest of the week, they just it kind of fizzles out, not intentionally. They're not, you know, bad people, but it's just, it's just the noise of our world. And so I don't know. I could you just talk about that, the Matthew 7 passage and the importance of it, especially to those raising families right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, that pass the scriptures actually, whoever hears my words and puts them into practice is wise. It's like building your house on a rock. That's actually the scripture, which is crazy. I never saw that part of that scripture. I was always like, build your house on a rock, don't bid all on sand, which there's a really interesting context. Well, that's different, and that's a whole another podcast. But the idea that the part right before it, which, man, Christians, we're so good at just taking this little section and forgetting this section, you know, it's like, for I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord. But that's called 40 years in the desert of like hell. That's what the plans are for you. So if you can eat those 40 years, then you can use that scripture. But if we're like going, he's gonna give me a house, it's like, man, that's not, that's not Jesus. That's not the that's not this. Anyways, so for whoever hears my words and puts them into practice, I'll do quotes in our pre parentheses all week long, is wise. It's like building your house on a rock. If you don't, I think he loves us like crazy. It's just foolish. It's like building your house on the sand. So I think my my answer to this is that we get good at what we practice. So I think in our Western Christian world, we have so much content that we are like, we are obese on content, on Christian content, on like scriptures. You know what? You know what the Greek word for this is Svetzervald? I mean, it's just like we have so much content, so much. We're like so smart. And yet the demons have way better theology than all of us, you know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And which put that in some kind of pipe, because that's really wild to think about that. We're all trying to get the best theology in the world, but it's like they've got way better theology than we do, and they're still, you know, I've got bad words, I have other words, but you could bleed out. So, but they're not practicing the way. They're practicing the opposite. They know it all, but they're practicing opposite. So when I look at that passage, I look at me, I practice worry. Most of my life I practiced worry, like addiction to worry. If I were king, this is how it's gonna go. This is how you'd do this, God. You wouldn't give me this job, you'd actually do this and this and this, or you'd give me a different kid, or you'd fix this kid right here and here and here if I were if I were king. Problem is I'm not king. It's not my kingdom that I'm seeking first. Uh, it's not your queendom, Bethany. You know, it's like if you're a queen, this is what's gonna happen. And I practiced worry. I practice it. When finances come up, I'm like, oh, I guess I just start going into a whole phase of worry, which I'm sure I'm not alone on. Yeah, 100%. I I can practice envy. I can practice greed. I can practice lust. I can practice wanting things that are not mine. I mean, how many things can we like actually get good at practicing? And so with my nonprofit that we started, it's called 10,000 minutes. And the idea is there are 10,008 minutes in a week. You're welcome. 80 of those minutes we spend, 80 of those 10,000 eight minutes we spend in some church gathering. If you can do it or if your kids will allow you to stay in that place, right? But there are 80 minutes, and then there are 10,000 minutes until we gather again. And I kill on those 80 minutes. Hands up, surrendered, everything. But those 10,000 minutes happen, and that's when somebody cuts me off. That's when we lose a uh a family member. That's when I get a cancer diagnosis. That's when my kid goes crazy at Target, and I'm like, you know, wanted to jump off a cliff at that point, right? This 10,000 minutes when stuff is happening. I think that's where Jesus is inviting us to practice joining him. And so for me, one of my practices with worry is Jesus, I'm gonna practice trust today instead of worry. It sounds crazy, but I'm gonna just go, Jesus, with my finances, like a few months ago, so crazy. We have this movie coming out of this, you know, all the things. And we've got like so many credit cards on 0% just because some other circumstances happened. You know, we're like, oh my gosh, like Jesus, we're dying. And then I start, I can just jump into worry, or I can go, Jesus, I'm gonna join you in the midst of this thing. Help me give, give me, give me vision on these things. If I lose my house, I lose my house. I'm gonna join you. My hope is not in my house. My hope is in you. And my family is gonna be just fine. Today we woke up. Tomorrow, we'll see if we all wake up. Today is a day that you have made. I will join you with me and my house and my family will join you today, and I will practice trust instead of worry. I will practice the word for worship that um Eugene Peterson uses in the message is attention. It's another definition of the word worship. So one of the practices that we do with with 10,000 Minutes Community is every time I see the X on my wrist, I breathe in Jesus and I breathe out. You have my attention. I mean, just try it for a second. Jesus, you have my attention. Try it one more time. Jesus. You have my attention. Like, think about what could happen in your day if that was the practice of your heart. Like the actual posture and rhythm of your day was praying, Jesus.
SPEAKER_04It changes everything.
SPEAKER_02Every freaking thing. It changes. It changes my kids going crazy instead of me going, listen, you little, you know, I'm like, Jesus, you have my attention. What's being revealed in me right now? Jesus, you have my attention. The kid may not change, but my heart will change. And then, then I'll just cap it off here and you can stop the podcast and go, Tim, shut up. But at the end, the point is not you have my attention, it's that you have our attention. Because when he has our attention, Jesus people, then the world looks different. Then people can hate us all day long because we love so well. Because I give up, I will give up my rights for somebody else. Because we collectively look like Jesus. We are representers of Jesus, not just representatives. So, man, can you imagine what could happen if Jesus people began to just say, Jesus, you have our attention. I don't know, I don't know, help.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And when you let freak it happen.
SPEAKER_01So I get a little excited, a little loud about the when you genuinely do that, that's where peace that surpasses all understanding comes from. When you actually do that, it just it it releases. You could be going through anything. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and I speaking of the piece that passes all understanding, I felt that. I think Milo, he portrayed that so well in your character. And you know, like you said, it's a movie. And I'm like, is this real? Is this real how but like in talking to you today, it is so real and so evident. You had a terminal cancer diagnosis and you were given five years to live. And yet you sit here and you say, Jesus, you have my attention and you have surrendered surrendered your life to him. It doesn't matter what tomorrow brings, what matters is today. And the X on your wrist says that, and the way you live and the things you speak say that. And so that is just such a great, powerful reminder.
SPEAKER_02Let's go. I mean, it's so much more fun. This is like when we talk about the good news, Christians always talk about Jesus on the cross dying for our sins. We didn't know we just had Easter. And that's like that much. If you ask Jesus and you look at all the context of what he says the good news is, it's never about him dying on the cross for our sins. I mean, throw stones, do whatever you need to do, but read it for your freaking self. It's crazy. The only thing he ever says is the good news, the gospel, every time he says it, it's about the availability of his kingdom right here, right now. Like we can live in it. Just joining him in it, that's the good news. Yes, we get to go to heaven, however that works. I don't fully understand that anymore, but I I'm I'm stoked for it. I'm so grateful. But that being that much of the story, and the bigger story is like inviting us into us being his people, joining him with joy in the midst of crap, but so, so much more. It's such a bigger, more beautiful story. So much more.
SPEAKER_04Well, Tim, I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you. I know we went over on the time.
SPEAKER_02I like the interview just canceled. So I'm I'm I'm good.
Where Tim Is Today And Closing
SPEAKER_04I've been so gracious. If you just wouldn't mind, I would love to hear where people can well the movie's not in theaters anymore.
SPEAKER_02No, it just went to you can buy it on Apple or Amaz or all those places, and then it'll stream in a few months.
SPEAKER_04Okay. I I want to share all of that, but before I do, just quick glimpse where you are today, where you're at with your cancer journey, how we can be praying for you, how our audience can serve you guys. Yeah, all of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, I'm married to the coolest human, Hillary, and we work so hard on our marriage. And so for all of you, marriages, well done. Just getting through today. And today is your gift. And what we're we're always trying to work on, Hillary and I are is own and repair. Own my part, repair. Own repair with my kids, teaching them to own me that I would own and then repair. Always keep doing that. But you can find us, our book, Hiller and I's book called Waking Up Again. It's an invitation into purposely, really waking up every morning joining Jesus. So it's like a bunch of funny stories and fun stories and a bunch of practices in there. So you can find that. I've got a bunch of new music. I just put out Even If, my own version of Even If.
SPEAKER_04It's so good. We listened to it this morning.
SPEAKER_02Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_04Your voice is, I love it. Thanks. Beautiful.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Yeah, so I'm putting out a bunch of music that I think is really um good for the church to pray. And then that's on all the those places. And then just come find me on Instagram and be my friend. I don't know. I put out a bunch of dumb stuff. I write blogs all the time, and I'm on Substack and um yeah. Just trying to figure out life with people. That's kind of what I love to do. I live in Nashville, Orange County from Newport Beach my whole life. And then moved here about 10 or 11, almost 12 years ago. Four kids, one's in college, you guys, and college is brutal for the soul. So brutal. Nobody said it. Or maybe they did. And I'm like, you're an idiot. I'm fine. It's just hard on the soul. So just enjoy your moments. I I will see kids like I was in the airport yesterday and just I just start crying. I just see a kid with like I'd see you guys with your little humans, and I'd be like, there's one time. And I'm just sitting there like minding my own business, just crying because it's like so cute. And I just want those days back. So just enjoy the crappiest, hardest, snottiest days ever, people. We're trying. That's where we are. We're we're hanging out here.
SPEAKER_04Well, I just want to say again, thank you so much for your time. We know you're right in the thick of tour, but this has been so good personally for just my heart and my soul. And I know it's gonna impact so many other people as well. So we'll make sure to link everything in the show notes and all of that. And yeah, we'll definitely be following along.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. Thanks, you guys.