Guest Stephanie Townsend Allala: Building a Successful Law Firm: Lessons from a Former Journalist

Step into the world of Stephanie Townsend Allala, a dynamo who transitioned from the high-pressure newsroom to the intricacies of estate planning and elder law. You're in for a riveting journey as Stephanie, an accomplished lawyer, opens up about her fascinating transition from broadcast journalism to elder law, and her experiences living in a border community. She sheds light on the importance of listening and understanding, crucial skills that have helped her provide the best representation for her clients, particularly the elderly and those with disabilities.

The conversation takes a deeper tone as we explore Stephanie's challenges and victories in establishing her own law firm. She shares pearls of wisdom on team building, nurturing success and the necessity of transparency and accountability in the legal profession. Listen as she imparts her belief in trusting one's instincts and the power of decision-making. Further, get a glimpse into Stephanie's passion for elder law and her commitment to helping families preserve their homes for future generations. This episode is a treasure trove of personal anecdotes, professional insights, and stirring accounts reflecting the realities and rewards of law practice and community service.

Video version on YouTube
Book your free Discovery Call with my team.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Hi and welcome back to the Marketing Lawcast. I'm your host, Jennifer Goddard, and I'm here today with my guest Stephanie Townsend Ayala of Townsend Ayala Culture and Clute Elder Law Attorneys. Their primary office is in El Paso, Texas. Stephanie is this year's recipient of the outstanding member of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys, Texas Chapter. She serves people who are elderly or who have disabilities in two states, as she is licensed in both Texas and New Mexico. She, interestingly, was a broadcast journalist before attending the University of Texas School of Law. Welcome, Stephanie, it is great to have you on the show today. I just want to ask you a little bit, and I just mentioned that previously you were a broadcast journalist. So I think the first question is how did you make that transition, and why, from broadcast journalism into becoming a lawyer?

Speaker 2: 1:01

Well, I was in my mid-30s and I looked around the newsroom and realized that everybody was getting surgery and facelifts and eyebrow lifts and chin tucks and I just thought I needed a career with a longer shelf life and I just felt like I wanted to do something differently. After 15 years as a reporter and a news anchor, I had a nightly talk show where I would interview people for half an hour every night and that's 285 nights a year, which was a lot. It's a lot to be on and to be producing all of that, but it was fun and exciting. I just wanted something different, and law school seemed just a logical way to sort of take what I was doing, which is trying to give voice to people who didn't have a voice as a journalist, and then kind of transitioning into doing the same thing as a lawyer, so to speak, helping people who have very few options.

Speaker 1: 2:00

We talked about this earlier and I thought one of the most interesting things that you told me was doing that talk show and interviewing people. You learned a skill that a lot of attorneys don't have, a lot of attorneys need to develop, and that was that listening skill right.

Speaker 2: 2:16

To listen without worrying about what my response is going to be, to actually just listen to what people are saying and then the response comes naturally, if you do take the time to stop talking and let someone other than yourself talk. Sometimes it gets a little bit too long, of course, but there needs to be a balance of listening and talking, and too often I've seen lawyers who do the majority of the talking when it's more appropriate just to try to get a feel for where clients coming from, what their needs are and what their goals are. Everybody has a different goal and people come into my office every day with different ideas of what is appropriate. I have to be able to help them find what's safe and what's within the law and really listening to those stories and then retelling that story.

Speaker 1: 3:14

We talked about that. Sometimes what you're doing is actually retelling their story and supporting it with legal help.

Speaker 2: 3:21

Exactly, and trying to help people who are really lost in the system. A lot of people are desperate for when I help people get Medicaid to cover their nursing home or home health care. That's a really big deal because the people who need those services could not otherwise pay for it. They can't afford it. They can't afford 24-7 care in the home. But if you get them maybe 20 hours a week or 30 hours a week of care in the home, they can supplement it with their income or with friends or family who could help as well. But everybody has a different goal and trying to help people see the reality of their goal and what their needs are. People who have disabilities have a special need because they don't have the ability to advocate for themselves often, and so we have to be especially careful of the people that we're listening to who are advocating on their behalf.

Speaker 1: 4:20

That's so important. Stephanie, can we just turn the clock back a little bit and you tell me a little bit about your practice and how you got started and particularly how you ended up in elder law?

Speaker 2: 4:32

It was something that I always knew I wanted to do. I knew that, talking to folks who were in the third stage of life, who have seen a lot and have a lot of wisdom to impart, I learned a lot from my clients, just as they learned from me. I always knew that this was what I wanted to do. My very first day in private practice, somebody came up to me and into my office needing Medicaid planning. I didn't know how to do it, but I knew someone who did. I took the case and then I called this gentleman who's a superstar in Texas Medicaid, and he helped walk me through my first few cases.

Speaker 2: 5:16

That really is how I tried to find a niche for myself in terms of just doing this and only this, and doing the elder law area of practice and making sure that I'm the best at that. The practice built when my daughter graduated from law school and her best friend. They were both interested in elder law as well. They clicked for me a summer during their law school experience and then they thought out that they liked this area of law. They joined the law firm in 2011 and it's just grown from there. Now we have about 13 employees and five attorneys and it's bigger than I thought it would be. But all of that growth, a lot of it has happened just in the last few years.

Speaker 1: 6:07

Interestingly, you told me that your family has lived on this border area for about 200 years More than that.

Speaker 2: 6:17

In fact, right behind me is the tapestry made by my great grandmother in 1878. The whole family is from Port Isabel, south Padre Island, brownsville and Matamoros. Half of my family lives in Mexico. It was a very crossing the border, having lives on both sides of the border. That's something that I'm very familiar with.

Speaker 2: 6:50

The life of a border. It's different than living in the rest of the country. There's, they say, the first world. Mexico is the first world, our third world and the United States is the first world. But about 50 miles on either side of the US-Mexico border there's this second world and it has its own rules and its own systems and processes.

Speaker 2: 7:13

It's good to know both languages, spanish and English. It's good to be able to communicate with people who are used to just fluidly living on both sides. Then they're surprised to learn that certain rules apply when they're trying to get Medicaid, when they're trying to probate estates, that apply to legal permanent residents versus the rules that apply to Mexican citizens or someone who's a foreign citizen. I should say the certain taxes that apply to the probate estates and the like. But a lot of people have dual citizenship and are able to speak both languages and it's really important that we understand that we have one of the lowest nursing home rates in the country here in El Paso. So, per capita, people in El Paso just refuse to send grandma or grandpa to the nursing home. We'll have them on a stretcher in the living room before we'll put them in a nursing home. So we literally have those situations of helping people get proper care wherever they may be.

Speaker 1: 8:26

And you have a special passion for helping people to preserve their family home and their property their real estate for future generations. You want to tell me a little bit about that?

Speaker 2: 8:38

Yes, the Medicaid estate recovery program. Every state has a version of it. In Texas it's called MIRF Medicaid estate recovery program. In New Mexico it's the recovery program as well. So they say if you get these, there's a certain type of Medicaid waiver programs. They're waivers so that you don't have to be poverty stricken to get them. If you need home health care, if you need a nursing home, then you can access these Medicaid benefits and still own a home, still own a car, have, keep certain IRAs I mean there's certain things and assets you can keep and still get these types of Medicaid waiver programs to cover home health care and nursing homes.

Speaker 2: 9:19

But it comes with a catch. It says that if you do get these waiver programs, we're going to try to take your house when you die. But what the state doesn't tell you is that it's 100% avoidable. If you do certain things now, you can avoid the state recovering your house later on. And they don't allow their employees to tell people that. They just allow their employees to tell them that we're going to take your house when you die, but they are not allowed to tell them. Oh, by the way, you can alleviate yourself from this program pretty easily.

Speaker 2: 9:51

So that's what my job is is to try to let people know that they can access these waiver programs, these Medicaid waivers for middle class citizens, and still keep your home and be able to pass a little something on to the next generation. And in doing so I'm helping to raise the tax base. If I can help keep a home in a family line of succession, then that family is going to be better off financially than a family that did not inherit any real estate. And that's just the nature of the American economy, the way our economy is system to benefit small business owners and real estate owners. So if you're not doing one of those things, you're not really participating fully in the American economy. So we help people maintain that for the next generation and that's really good for society and it's really a good public policy practice.

Speaker 1: 10:48

And how does the impact the quality of care to when families know that they can access these services?

Speaker 2: 10:57

I have people who are desperate for care and thinking of desperate actions to try to get care. I had a gentleman who didn't know he could get Medicaid, even though he had a house and a car and some IRAs and he could still get Medicaid for his wife. He was told me he was considering suicide just to get his life insurance to pay for his wife's care. I mean, when people are that desperate, then you know that those decisions are being made out there and professional is never being consulted Right.

Speaker 2: 11:26

So if I hear three or four people coming to my office telling me they're considering suicide because of these outrageous rates or the possibility of losing their home, then that's telling me there's something happening in the community that's not being properly addressed, and so what we need to do is let people know. You know, if you're 86 years old and you need nursing care and you find out that they're going to take your house when you die, you might have three generations living in that home. You might have a small business operating out of the home, so you might make terrible choices about your care and have misery and pain and suffering. That doesn't have to be there as long as you can get informed about how you can access these benefits.

Speaker 1: 12:09

Stephanie, I love the passion that you have for your work and for your clients. When we talk about marketing a law firm, I can see that from your point of view, a lot of this is just about education, just getting the word out there and letting people know. Can you tell me a little bit about how you do that? How do you get the word out and how do you market your law firm?

Speaker 2: 12:33

I do a lot of seminars to local insurance agencies, to churches, to Lions Clubs, to Rotary Clubs. I get the word out and go to schools. I call the local colleges and universities and get on their list so that I can be among the people that get called in for seminars for exiting employees. I also use Google AdWords. That's a big part of it. I used to have an regular ad in the local business magazine or weekly. While it wasn't a great volume generator, people certainly do read it.

Speaker 2: 13:14

I had people show up 10 years, 12 years later with a copy of my ad, my old ad. Well, I'm like how did you hear about me? Well, 12 years ago I saw this ad and I cut it out and I kept it. 15 years ago you spoke to my university. It's a lot of seeds to the wind.

Speaker 2: 13:35

You just get out in your community, speak whenever invited, and we speak to a lot of lawyers as well. I love marketing with lawyers because when they send a client, the client's usually pretty serious about getting someone hired in a situation rather than just looking around to see what's available. I think that that's really being open to coming to speak whenever invited and wherever invited, and because we live in Mexico and Texas, some of us going out to rural areas and talking to people and being available. For that they're so grateful. When you go out to a church of folks who are maybe near Whitesand's Missile Range, people are really grateful that you took the time and effort to drive out there and to let them know that you care about informing them, about getting the word out and about making sure that people know that there are options other than the tragic options when it comes to care for the elderly and people with disabilities.

Speaker 1: 14:47

That's just amazing. When you speak to lawyers, are you giving continuing legal education a lot of times. Do you have that?

Speaker 2: 14:55

Yes, absolutely, especially on the Medicaid estate recovery program. I have one seminar I give on what every probate lawyer should know about the Medicaid estate recovery program, because it's a big issue among lawyers. El Paso has one of the lowest recovery rates in the state of Texas and I like to think it's because of the work of my firm. We've worked so hard over the last 20 years trying to save homes and I like to think that we've had a role in that A bit of an impact there for sure.

Speaker 1: 15:24

I'm sure that the program may be somewhat different when you're speaking to non-lawyers, when you're speaking to the insurance providers and things like that. What topics do you really hone in for those audiences?

Speaker 2: 15:38

About doing your estate planning and getting your documents in order. There's seven legal documents no one should live or die without, and it's including the powers of attorney. Will direct it to physicians, those kinds of things. Also introducing them a little bit to the notion of probate. What is probate? People don't understand it. What that means. It's the formal legal process by which you remove the name of deceased person from a title or a deed. What process do you use? It depends on do they have a will or do they not have a will? Are there family fighting or are they not fighting? Are you telling us about all the children that they really had, or are you not telling us about certain other children that you would rather were not included? Because that happens a lot, where people lose track of each other and especially being on different sides of the border, we have people who would rather not remember that they have a sibling that lives in a different country.

Speaker 1: 16:40

Sometimes so it's important for you to get that word out as well. Yes, so right now, in this economy, how is that affecting the work that you do?

Speaker 2: 16:52

Well, I find that, no matter what happens with the economy, my business is booming because either they have the money to come and hire me to do this or they are in a pinch so they have to sell real estate they've been sitting on and they can't sell it without doing a probate. So I found that my business is booming. It's really a growth area and you know, I can't be legislated out of business. You can't legislate people like you can do that to bankruptcy lawyers or to immigration lawyers, but you can't legislate people into stop dying or stop getting sick. So that's just a growth area and it's a. I find that that my business just keeps growing and growing kind of organically. I've been doing this for 20 years and had my law partners for 13 years, so we're at a point now where we're really growing quickly.

Speaker 1: 17:57

So, even though there's a lot of uncertainty in the economy, this battle saying remains true. The only certainty is death and taxes right.

Speaker 2: 18:06

And no matter what's happening with the economy, I find it's a growth area for my business. No matter what's happening, the people who are suffering if the economy is harder than they're getting rid of real estate that they've been sitting on for years. Maybe they used to have the funds to pay for their nursing home, but they can't pay for the nursing home anymore. So now they need Medicaid. So then they need help getting on Medicaid. So it's no matter what's happening with the economy. I find that my business is really strong.

Speaker 1: 18:38

So there are a couple of things that I would like to be sure we let people know, because we have different audiences who listen to the podcast. So if someone would like for you to come and speak about elder law issues and about Medicaid and all these kind of more to a lay audience, how should they go about that?

Speaker 2: 18:58

You can shoot me an email to Stephanie at El Paso Elder Law dot com. That's E L P A S O E L D E R L A W dot com. You can also reach me through the website. If you go to www. El Paso Elder Law dot com, we have some videos there and you can comment. You can call, you can send it, shoot an email Probably an email, you'll get a faster response.

Speaker 1: 19:22

Awesome. Now if there's a lawyer, a legal group that would like for you to do CLEs same process same.

Speaker 2: 19:29

Yeah, just shoot me an email and be happy to respond. And we've actually done continuing education units for nurses. We do them for social workers so we can get continuing education units for doctors, I mean for well, for nurses, social workers and lawyers. That's what we've done so far.

Speaker 1: 19:48

Excellent. So the other audience that might be listening to this is someone that might be at home right now, and whether they are in Texas or New Mexico or anywhere in the country, but they're worried about getting care for a loved one. What would you say that they should do?

Speaker 2: 20:07

Well, I'm a member of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys, so I would recommend you go to wwwNailacom N-A-E-L-A dot org actually Naila dot org and you can click on find a lawyer, and you can just put your zip code in, or your city, wherever you are, find somebody nearby you who does what I do, who can sit down and spend an hour and you're going to pay for a client consultation. It's not free, because you're actually getting legal advice during that meeting and so you'll pay for it and you'll spend an hour, and a lot of people just need that one hour with me. I'm able to answer all the questions and they don't really need to hire me beyond that. So, or to speak to a group as well, we'd be happy to do that as well.

Speaker 1: 20:55

So they really shouldn't be afraid to just reach out and go ahead and schedule that consultation. Then they'll have a lot more information about which way they need to go.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Exactly and a lot of times. I'm the first lawyer somebody's ever met, and so, just through. I love it when they come in with a notebook and they've got their questions all written down and we can go through and answer all the questions throughout the meeting. So be prepared, write a list of the questions you have. Bring any paperwork that you think is important. If you're talking about the title to your house, bring the title to your house. So just be ready to spend an hour just getting the best advice you can and finding out where you're at. They can review documents and advise you on plans for your care in the future.

Speaker 1: 21:44

That's awesome, so remember what's that website again Nailaorg N-A-E-L-A.

Speaker 2: 21:51

National Academy of Elder Law, terniesorg.

Speaker 1: 21:55

So, wherever you are in the country, you can go to that website and go to the find a lawyer and just don't sit there and worry. Just try to get some information and some guidance Back to your practice. Stephanie, your practice, as you told us, is growing. You've got associates on board, you've got partners. You're doing a great job. What were some of the biggest challenges that you've had to overcome to get to this point?

Speaker 2: 22:25

Stephanie. I think having the right employee in the right position is very important, and so once I assembled the right team of people, I was ready to move forward. But you've got to have the right people, because it's the right person but they're not in the right position, and so you have to find what either it's a good fit or not and be able to move on. So be a good mentor. I don't see myself as a boss so much as a mentor and trying to mentor people to a position where we're all working together smoothly and there's no hiccups. We had two people on maternity leave this summer at the same time, so it was very challenging.

Speaker 2: 23:16

But as a small business, every single person is necessary to every day's events, so if somebody's not participating or gone, it shows Right, right, and so you got to keep the team working together. That's the key, I think, is just getting your teammates, your team members, working towards the same processes, the same goals and communicating. Communication is the key. I have my undergraduate degree in communication and sometimes it's shocking how many smart people cannot communicate clearly. So we just have to try to make sure that we are talking and working together clearly about what our goals are, what our goals are and what our tasks are on a daily basis and holding people accountable. That's. Another key to success is holding myself and other people in the firm accountable for what we're doing for people and making sure that we're living up to certain goals.

Speaker 1: 24:20

And how do you do that? How do you hold people accountable?

Speaker 2: 24:24

We look at the hourly hours, just like any law firm. You look at who's billing. Who's billing more hours and try to have little competitions to increase that and just make sure everybody sees what everybody's contributing. When everybody knows what everybody's doing, there's pressure to up the game.

Speaker 1: 24:45

So transparency is a big part of accountability.

Speaker 2: 24:48

Absolutely Big time.

Speaker 1: 24:51

So, stephanie, what's your vision for you and for your law firm over the next three to five years?

Speaker 2: 24:59

It's education. I think that if we can educate more people about how you can get Medicaid benefits and keep your house, that's my wish. My five-year plan is to have big, huge, lit-up billboards telling people about how you can get Medicaid and not lose your home. So that's my goal is big, huge, flashing billboards.

Speaker 1: 25:27

Oh, this has been such a delight. If there is one piece of advice that you would give to someone who was trying to grow their law firm to the level that you are perhaps beyond, if you could distill it into one piece of advice, what would you give?

Speaker 2: 25:45

You have to follow your instincts. I had so many people telling me what to do and I just had to ignore. A lot of people who are really smart and I know, who cared about me, but they just didn't know what I needed to do to be a success. People who advised against letting my partners on board or hiring certain people. You just got to follow your gut on certain things and trust your intuition that you know what you're doing. That just have faith in yourself I think that's a big part of it and have a vision and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

Speaker 1: 26:26

I love that. You know that burnout and frustration is a big part of the legal profession. I don't see it in you, and I think it's because you are so connected to your passion and your mission. What I see from you is all this joy just kind of exuding out of you. I would really wish that for any attorney in any practice area. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 26:50

Thank you for that. I'm happy. I love my job. I make my schedule, so it's the way I want it to be. That's my plan is to do more of the things that I love doing and less of the things that I'm not passionate about doing. That's more of what I'm going to do in my life. I don't see myself really retiring, but I see myself doing more of what's fun.

Speaker 1: 27:17

Listen to your gut, follow your instincts and have faith in yourself. Is that kind of your parting shot there? Yes, ma'am, that's it. Thank you so much, stephanie. And if you want to reach out to Stephanie directly, whether you'd like for her to come to speak to your group, or if you need help right now, that website again, stephanie.

Speaker 2: 27:39

It's elpasoelderlacom. Thank you again.

Speaker 1: 27:47

It has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you Until next time bye-bye.

Speaker 2: 27:52

Awesome Thanks so much. Bye-bye.

Speaker 3: 27:57

That's a wrap on this edition of the Marketing LawCast. Thanks for joining us. Head over to wwwimsrockscom for more growth-focused insights. If you're ready to skyrocket your firm's marketing, don't hesitate to book a free Discovery Call with our team right on our website. Here's to your success. See you next time.