The Art of Online Business

Jeff Lerner's Journey: Holistic Transformation on the Way to Building a $200 Million Empire

• Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie • Episode 833

Share episode

Jeff Lerner, the founder of Entre Institute, talks about life, online business, and everything in between. Jeff shares insights from his journey, touching on the importance of personal growth and holistic transformation in achieving business success.



Watch Jeff's next episode "Building a Meaningful Life Beyond Money" (releases August 7th)




Please click here to give an honest Rating/Review for the show on iTunes! Thanks for your support!



Links mentioned in this episode:





Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie’s Links:




Jeff’s Links:

Speaker 1:

All right, welcome back to another segment of. Before we Hit Record, we have Jeff Lerner. Jeff, thank you for being here.

Speaker 2:

So glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, and if you're listening and you've never heard of Jeff before, he is the CEO and founder of the Entra Institute and, as a course creator, I know that you will really care about this stat. His course, the Success Path Masterclass, has sold over 275,000 since the last five years and so that's generated over $200 million in revenue. Jeff's business, the Entre Institute. It's one of the fastest growing education companies in the world, with over 250,000, I guess 275,000 students right now. Right, and we're here to record an episode where you get to know him, probably in a way that you wouldn't get to know him necessarily on another podcast, where he's just the guest expert. That's what, before we Hit Record is all about, because we as online business owners are a lot more than just like one faceted human beings. Like we have likes and dislikes and beliefs and backstories, and we're here to do that.

Speaker 1:

If my voice is new to you, hi, I'm the host of the Art of Online Business. If you're like, where did Rick go? Two links are for you in the show notes below. One is Rick saying where he went. It's an awesome AI venture and go down there and learn about that. The other one is where Rick interviewed me and shares a little bit about why he chose me. It's already been six months now, actually nine months by the time you hear this episode, but still he shares why he chose me as the next host of the Art of Online Business podcast. And I can promise you this that we will still do tips and tricks and strategies, and behind the scenes, business peaks and, of course, facebook adds goodness, so that you, the online course creator, can level up your business from, say, low six figures to high six figures. And with that, jeff, glad to have you here and I'm glad to meet you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, likewise Really grateful to be here and honestly, I didn't do a lot of shows and they just sort of like pop up one after the other, but I love having a conversation that is directly around, at least within an audience online business and course creation it's. It's kind of feels like back to my roots in a sense.

Speaker 1:

I've been I do a lot.

Speaker 2:

I do a lot of shows now that are of a variety of sorts, but this is like. This is like the grassroots. You know beginnings of it all and it's it's. I mean I know your audience will appreciate this. Like I feel like hardcore online marketers and online business owners. There's a certain language that we speak that just feels very warm to be back within that group, nice.

Speaker 1:

So then, your business is more than just the course. What else are you into?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's interesting too. I'll say this for the audience. I did an episode for this particular show, kind of like a antecedent context setter. I did an episode with Mike Dillard, who I'm sure that much of your audience is familiar with. You know, luminary online course creator from back in the day. It was right when our business had cracked $2 million a month and he had me on to talk about. You know, essentially, how did I go from like a cold start course launch to a $2 million a month business? And I want to say it was like in 24 months or something at that time. That's quick, yeah, and it might've been even less no-transcript everyone listening of like constantly reinventing yourself.

Speaker 2:

Right, we're in the process right now of the early stages, of really beginning an overt transformation from more of an entrepreneurial education platform to a total personal transformation platform, which is more and more the conversations I'm having in the world that I'm operating in is around this like holistic personal transformation in life, of which obviously money and business is one very often critical and even, like you know, dependent piece that, like, everybody wants to transform their whole life, but they feel like first they got to get their money and their income in order and so, but really I'm moving now a lot more towards the holistic transformation, which I think is good in the sense of how we do.

Speaker 2:

One thing is how we do everything, and having like an overly narrow focus on making money very often limits a person's potential and doesn't actually lead to the result they want, which is like total fulfillment and satisfaction. But it's hard to tell that to a broke person, right? But also I also think that very often, so much in the world today of having the result that we want financially depends on becoming the person that's going to stand out from the market and that everybody else is going to want to do business with, which actually has a lot less to do with the tactical pursuit of money and much more to do with the growth and development of ourselves as a holistic human being. And so they end up becoming sort of two sides of the same coin. It's like work on yourself in totality, and it becomes much higher probability of having the financial result that you want, whereas if you work on the financial result, you sometimes not only don't get it but you also miss the rest of the fulfillment equation. So that's behind the transformation.

Speaker 1:

So what you're saying, actually hold on before I clarify that. Okay, so what you're saying, actually hold on before I clarify that. Your bio said that you made the Forbes 5000 list, the Inc 5000 list.

Speaker 2:

Sorry, I've made it five times for two different businesses.

Speaker 1:

That's an incredible amount of success. So I want to go back a little further and say, on this journey, what was the first point, like the first success point? Maybe that's a number, maybe that's another metric of success in your business, but at what point did you feel like this thing is working?

Speaker 2:

So I'm going to say something that I would imagine across your spectrum of the audience here there are going to be a number of different responses to, but the thing that I am the first thing there are going to be a number of different responses to, but the thing that I am the first thing that I am proud to say is that I was having quite a bit of success online before I ever created a course about having success online.

Speaker 2:

And that's a little bit of a call out from you know you, you know who you are. That's like well, I haven't really been that successful, but I'll bet if I put a course together about how to be successful, then I can be successful. I'm proud to say that is not me.

Speaker 1:

That's fired. Hopefully not anybody who's listening.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, hopefully no-transcript customers and 500,000 customers. I mean I'll have a million paid customers before this is all done. Like what's the difference versus so many people struggle to get their first 10 customers? Like the difference? I mean, there's a number of factors and some of it's circumstantial and timing and luck and whatever, but. But at the end of the day, it comes down to who you have become, and I've spent far more time in my life trying to become a person that I would want to do business with much less anybody else than trying to do business presenting myself any certain way. And part of that is to create bona fide success in a category of value before you go out and proclaim yourself a guru of success in that category, and you can fake it, but you can't fake it Because human beings are smarter than we give ourselves credit for.

Speaker 1:

In this day and age. You know, I had somebody recently on the podcast who talked about that we're in a trust recession. And, yes, human beings, we are. Just it's kind of like the creep radar, the creepdar or whatever you call it we can detect the, let's say, the entrepreneur. That is less than genuine. So you know, I didn't even ask you, but where are you at in the world, like tell?

Speaker 2:

tell me about where you're at. I I live in saint george utah and, by the way, I didn't mean to dodge the previous question. I sort of I answered it by saying, well, this is not what my answer is going to be, but then I didn't give the actual answer, which was like when did I sort of feel like it's working? You know what this?

Speaker 1:

is just a conversation. It's like we met at a gathering and we're just hanging out and I mean the next episode like the listener. You had better be ready, because it's like, jeff specializes in life design and he did talk about this holistic transformation. He talked about becoming that person who desire to be, to attract, like the business that you have, rather than just chasing the business and the money, and we're going to dive into all of that. I'm going to ask you a lot of questions about that in the next episode, but right now we're just getting to know each other Like we like we met in an event.

Speaker 2:

Okay, cool, cool, I won won't. I won't hold myself too strictly to the being a good guest protocol yeah, I live in st george utah which is this beautiful idyllic spot in southern utah which is right where the desert converges with the mountain.

Speaker 2:

So if you, if you've been to vegas, you know that desert. Imagine that desert at some point collides with the rocky mountain plateau, which is what we think of as, like utah and wyoming and colorado and all that, st george is within about 20 miles of where the desert hits the mountains. So there's this juxtaposition of landscapes. Where I live in the desert but I look up at the mountains, you know I it could be 115 degrees where I am in the summer, but I can drive 30 minutes and be up at 5,500 feet and have the temperature drop by 40 degrees and it's just a really remarkable place on God's earth.

Speaker 1:

I've never heard of St George Utah, honestly.

Speaker 2:

Don't tell anyone.

Speaker 1:

Don't tell anyone.

Speaker 2:

You can look it up. I'm Googling it, don't tell anyone.

Speaker 1:

Don't tell anyone. You know you do. You can look it up. I'm Googling it. Hopefully you can't hear me like typing on the keyboard, but I'm Googling it, as you say that, because it's just. I've never heard of it and it does.

Speaker 2:

So I'll tell you how I got here, because I had never heard of it either.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and in 2010, I was doing affiliate marketing at the time, which I'm sure much of your audience is familiar with, and I was at a conference of a high-ticket direct sales company that does wealth education seminars. They're no longer around, but it was one of the first high-ticket companies that I had affiliated with as an affiliate marketer, and I was one of their top affiliates in 2010. And so I went to their event, but I got, you know, kind of the royal treatment because I'm one of their people that's helping them fill their seats, and so I was talking to the president and co-founder of the company and he introduced me to his daughter. It was in Las Vegas, which is only about a 90 minute drive from here If you just go Northwest on. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:

Northeast on I-15 from Vegas about an hour and a half you get. You cross the border into Utah and hit St George. But anyway, he introduced me to his daughter, who lived in St George, utah, and that was the first I'd ever heard of it, and that was November of 2010. And I think it was March of 2011.

Speaker 2:

After four and a half months of a long distance relationship, I just decided to move out here, and she was a single mom with three kids and I moved out here. So I went from a divorced bachelor living in New York City at the time to a, you know, cohabitating sort of step father figure to three kids, basically on a dime. I moved out here and moved in with her and a year and a half later we were married and it took about four more years after that I was able to adopt the kids. Adoption is a slow process in Utah because of well, there's a whole story there, but it has to do with the Mormon church dominating the state government, which slows down all things related to family law Because, I think, in a responsible way, they're a little more strict about things like adoption and, you know, allowing people to just say I'm going to be a parent. They actually want to make sure you're a good person.

Speaker 1:

And so that took several years. Their values are more interwoven into the state law.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think that's fair. That's fair. It's a whole other podcast we could have about Mormonism and state government in the state of Utah. But the point being, yeah, that now I'm, and then we added one more kid. So now I live in St George because I met a woman here, moved here, adopted her kids, added another kid. I'm now a dad and husband with four beautiful kids and a wonderful life in St George, Utah.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

All made possible. But I should add, all such things are made possible by having a business that travels with you wherever you take your laptop.

Speaker 1:

Okay, you just told me that you went through a very stark change New York to St George, which I'm assuming has a slightly different kind of population. Well, when you say New York, I think New York City. Where were you in New York?

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, I lived in Tribeca, lower Manhattan. Okay yeah, about a 10, 15-minute walk from what was the World Trade Center. So yeah, Wow.

Speaker 1:

And then from Bachelor to Father of Three.

Speaker 2:

And now Four yes.

Speaker 2:

And now Four Wow now four wow, okay, all right, that's cool and you're like let me say this, like everybody you know, I get the oh, you're such a good guy. You, you know, you married a single mom and adopted the kids bullshit, they adopted me they're the good people. I was the stray that they brought in and gave a nice place to live, and they nurtured and fed me emotionally and spiritually and lovingly to become a much better version of myself. They adopted me for the record. Although legally it may have been the other way.

Speaker 1:

Spoken like a good man, a good husband. We look up to our wives. They make a lot of what we do possible and in many ways I think that my wife is a much better a good husband. Like we look up to our wives, they make a lot of what we do possible, and in many ways, I think that my wife is a much better person than I am, so yeah, Totally, totally Ditto.

Speaker 2:

Good on marrying up, I did too.

Speaker 1:

Yep, I heard somebody who was speaking in my church say once you only have to trick them once and I was like laughing. So you, so I. You said direct sales company. So I'm hearing, because I was a part of a direct sales company too back in the day, but I had never made it to the point where I had a team or, you know, had enough influence to fill a bunch of seats at their conference, but, like, maybe I should have got there quicker and the head of the company would introduce me to his daughter. Shoot, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that was a crazy world. So I got into the online business world in 2008. Okay, and you know there's a gosh. I know more than I ever cared to know about the world of online business and unfortunately, you know, and it's like any ecosystem, but I think that what you know, there's there's good elements and there's bad elements. I think on the internet, unfortunately, the bad elements are able to proliferate to a greater degree than perhaps other business ecosystems, just because there's like sort of a baked in ability to stay anonymous over time somewhat. Oh yeah, although that is, I think, changing for the better in the world today. Like, I don't think you can really trick people for a living as much as you used to be able to, but certainly back in 2008, it was the wild west man and there were bandits and there were posses and there were good good guys and sheriffs and. But I got in with one of the better platforms at the time. It was an affiliate marketing training platform.

Speaker 2:

But one of their big premises and I think this is totally germane to probably your whole audience is that you've got to think of your offer as a, your offer as a. It's sort of like a meta offer, like you don't just offer one thing, you structure your offer so you have like your self liquidating. Well, first of all, now you might have like your tripwire, your lead magnet, you have your self liquidating offer that helps cover your ad spend. You have maybe like a mid ticket offer. And then their big thing was, if you really want to make money as a digital marketer, you got to have some kind of a bigger ticket backend offering. And their advice was to go for. They had a handful of high ticket companies, the best of which I think was this direct sales company, and they're, like you know, go align with some sort of a high ticket offer that you can build into your sequence. And you know I was doing funnels and offer stacks back in 2008, 2009, kind of before. It was trendy and that changed my life.

Speaker 1:

It's what you said about reading.

Speaker 1:

I think you touched upon reading as part of this process to become who you desire to be and then attract the kind of person that you want to do business with in order to increase your business impact and profit.

Speaker 1:

Those were not your words, I couldn't be as eloquent as you, but it's. When you said that and then, a few sentences later, you mentioned how you met your wife and the direct sales company, that kind of struck a chord with me because I so I've been married for 15 years and a lot of the let's call it early marriage success that we had, or let's say, the problems that everybody goes through as they figure out like how to be married and live with this like other person we went through, but a lot of them just seemed so much easier because the organization that I was doing direct sales with really, really, really pushed reading books to improve who you were so that you would attract like that quality person, and so we were reading tons of marriage books before we got married and then even after we got married and they really influenced us and it's like we encountered and talked our way through so many issues before those issues actually came up.

Speaker 2:

Can we talk more about that? I mean, yeah, my wife and I got into a lot of therapy very early. We did a lot of reading, a lot of intentional study around relationships and communication. I would love to compare some notes. What are some of your faves?

Speaker 1:

Ohez, I gotta open up the door, but it's gary somebody.

Speaker 1:

The title is chapman it could be, but the title is if she, if she only, or is it if she only knew, or if he only knew. But more important, because anybody could google that more important is it's just like a checklist over chapters of things that, like I'll just say, guys, let's just say me, I didn't get about women and yet I'm married to one, and so it's like it's kind of this is not doing it justice. But at the time, I feel like when you see now these, these, these reels on the internet, on Instagram, and it's like she says this, but she means this, so you definitely don't want to do that and you want to do this, it's like she says, okay, but okay, beats over my dead body, go the other way, run. And so this book really, really opened my eyes to, I guess, how I could serve my wife, how I could love her. Another one was the personality tree, and I don't know the offer. Have you read that one?

Speaker 2:

no, I haven't I, I did look up. I did look up gary smalley. If only he knew yeah, if only I was. I immediately went to gary chapman, who's the five love languages guy, and then you have the personality tree, your, your personality tree, which looks like florence liddauer yeah anyway, yes, yeah so the personality tree.

Speaker 1:

I loved that because so it has four personalities in it and a quiz at the beginning and then several chapters to really help you understand which personality you fall under. But this book was focusing on how the different personalities could relate to each other, and the thing that I took away from it was that your personality is how you filter the world and the personalities. It's fine to be a different personality. We just got to understand that somebody with a different personality from ours sees the world differently and sees us differently, depending on our, whatever our personality is. And so that book showed me and my wife cause we're different.

Speaker 1:

I'm like the very typical visionary. I think sanguine was the personality Like I'm an instigator, for good or for bad. I got 20 ideas in a day and I'll go in 20 different directions and frequently start like great movements, but very rarely will I carry them out, unless I'm kind of leaning on what I've learned to do in order to grow a business Right. And my wife is the opposite. She's, I think, the sanguine. No, I'm sanguine, she's like choleric personality. I guess people would call it type A. She wakes up and we would laugh about this. She wakes up in the morning and you could just see her eyes like planning the morning hour by hour, 15 minute chunks, like this is what she wants to get done.

Speaker 1:

And we read that book right in the beginning and we would like clash. Because I wake up in the morning and like I hear the birds. I'm like, hey, let's go to the beach. We lived in China at the time and there was a beach nearby and beach we lived in China at the time and there was a beach nearby and she'd be like, I don't want to go to the beach. I'm like, why not? And she's like, because she already had 10 things to do. And so this book taught us that it's okay to be different. Here's what the other person like. The other person isn't trying to sabotage you, isn't trying to come against and like up into your world. This is just how they see things and that book really helped us just laugh, like together, at our differences and then come together and support each other, like you know, and it was really cool.

Speaker 2:

So those are my two. What are your two favorites? So it sounds like I mean you mentioned sanguine and choleric. So it's based on the four what do they call them?

Speaker 1:

The four temperaments like it's choleric sanguine phlegmatic and melancholic, right?

Speaker 2:

Yes, phlegmatic, I'm glad I'm not phlegmatic. If you are, I'm sorry but no. But yeah, phlegmatics, you know they're like the. I feel like they're the buffer of all the others, like they're like so easygoing and whatever. Yeah, but no, that's yeah. I think I found the book your Personality Tree.

Speaker 1:

Looks like she's got some YouTube videos, but yeah, no my you asked about.

Speaker 2:

You asked about my yeah, I'm like, really, I honestly online this is gonna sound, you know, perhaps offensive to your audience, but like online business, of all the things I'm interested in and known for, it's actually like kind of my least favorite to talk about, because, because it always deteriorates into like, well, tell me how to make more money faster, and it's like, yeah, but how to make more money faster has to do with all the other things that I'd prefer to talk about, like how to become a better communicator, how to understand behavioral psychology, how to, to your point, relate to different personalities and integrate different personalities, because that all comes down like if you want to make more money faster, learn how to lead a better team, learn how to attract better talent, like it's all the soft skills that unlock your potential. The hard skills are like how you make your first $5 and then it just gets worse over time. You start to create leverage and exponential upside through the softer stuff. Right, and, and so anyway, yeah, you asked about my my go-tos for relationship stuff. The works of John and Julie Gottman have been pretty great. They're John Gottman runs the love lab at the university of Washington. They're sort of like older. They're older now, they're probably in their seventies, but I mean, they've been. They've literally been researching personality relationships for like 50 years and it's a married couple of PhDs that do it together. But yeah, the John and Julie Gottman works have been incredible.

Speaker 2:

And then I like to study a lot of like stuff that's really like personality and like cognitive behavioral therapy. I mean, ultimately, I think it's one thing to understand how humans interact. It's another thing to start to take responsibility, for my part, of how humans interact and try to make myself more malleable, more flexible, not not to not to water down or dilute who I truly am, but to not be so enamored with my own perception that I become a porcupine that's hard to get close to. And so I, I I took the relationship stuff and went into, you know, a lot of the different like cognitive behavioral therapy disciplines and I mean gosh, we could go down a long list of books. But it all becomes very practical and useful when it's like, okay, how do I actually improve myself in the context of relationships, not just understand better why they're not working, so to speak?

Speaker 1:

You said how did you word it so that you wouldn't become a porcupine that's hard to get close to?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think sometimes we can understand ourselves and use it as a justification to kind of dig our heels into what it is that we're learning, and it doesn't sound at all like you and your wife did that, I think, in a loving context. You care enough about integrating with another person that you approach it in a different way, but I do, particularly through the lens of online discourse, you get the sense that a lot of people, the more educated they become, the more justified they are becoming in believing that, on the basis of their education and their learning, they're more right and more superior.

Speaker 1:

Therefore and that's not a recipe for fulfillment in my world- no, that sounds like what I was reading in the book Think Again and this author. See, you remember authors better than me, but I remember what he was saying, which. He was saying that you know, we've got to be like a scientist. And he was talking about at least what I remember the joy of being wrong and that you know the more you learn. Never forget that joy like of just learning new things, and it's okay to be wrong and in fact it's great to be wrong, because if you're wrong then that means you knew more than you knew before you found out you were wrong. And what you said made me think of when I was in China. I was working with a international school that was part of an international Christian organization and they also had schools in the UAE. And when you said the porcupine comment, it made me think of some of these people who are on the board of this organization. They're in the UAE and they're partnering with, so the UAE being a kingdom right.

Speaker 2:

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, united Arab Emirates, a kingdom right, and then a lot of the wealth held by the I believe it's the Emiratis and so to get anything done, you usually have to partner with somebody in power. And so here we have this and I think, like this is perfect for like kind of the backdrop of what's happening in our world right now, over in the Middle East. But you have people of different faiths partnering towards the same goal and not just partnering in a way where they're but they're exchanging like money, lots of money, in order to partner as a business and achieve, like these same goals that they both believe in. You know and when you said that the porcupine comment, it made me think like these are groups of people who are already successful. Usually they're, like you know, double master degree holders, you know PhDs, like they're quite educated, quite influential in their various spheres, yet they're partnering with people who you know of a different faith to accomplish, like, whatever mission they're going for, and that takes a lot of not being a porcupine.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's interesting. This is, I think, why I'm ultimately I consider myself to be somewhat of like a humanistic capitalist. I I deep, I deeply believe well, like. I think if you just say, oh, I'm a capitalist, there's a tendency to think like oh, maybe you know it's. It's very like greed, greed centric, or like mercenary capitalism, or that you know all it's very like greed-centric or like mercenary capitalism, or that all it's about is creating shareholder value at the expense of whatever who cares. It's not at all like that. I view capitalism like all economics is a compromise. I actually think economics itself is the study of compromise.

Speaker 2:

It's basically, how do spiritual beings having a human experience navigate the requirements of having a human experience, which is like food and shelter and money and things, and while we're all really trying to be like transcendent spiritual beings, but because we have this annoying reality called having to stay alive that involves value exchange, then capitalism, to me, is the best of the compromises that we found, and what I think you find very often in its best incarnations is that capitalism is a shared language and philosophy of value exchange that can be extremely unifying to your point across different faiths, across different.

Speaker 2:

You know groupings and classifications in society. You know it's just much like. You know, I used to be a professional musician. I can sit down with a musician from any country or tribe on earth and we can speak together. You know music is a universal language, math is a universal language, capitalism and entrepreneurship are universal languages and in that sense it's, it can be a really powerful agent of peace and healing in the world, unless you defy or deny the core tenets of capitalism, which is usually about fair and just value exchange.

Speaker 2:

In other words, if you're trying to get more than you give in a capitalist structure, then you're going to become a cheat and you're going to make the rest of us look bad, but if you're trying to give more than you get and everybody's participating in that value exchange together, then you actually create a thriving economy that lifts all the boats floating in it.

Speaker 1:

Right right.

Speaker 2:

And that's a really good reason to put aside the fact that I call him Yahweh and you call him whatever name you call your God.

Speaker 1:

Who cares?

Speaker 2:

Yes, thank you, that's the one and we're all just. That's fine to each their own, but we're trying to do something that's collaborative and participatory here, because I want to take care of my family and, if I can help you take care of your family and you can take care of your family and help me take care of my family.

Speaker 1:

that's non-zero sum thinking that's good for everyone. It is so. I was living in China and I met plenty of people who worked for the Chinese government. You know, and like a lot of Americans, I know like don't like the Chinese government and I realized that you know, these are just people with families. You know one kid, maybe two, maybe two kids Cause they kind of relax the one child policy over there and like you're sitting in the living room and it's like, yeah, I have this job and, okay, I have this job, but like in the end we're playing card games and you know, you went to school, like I went to school and you had hopes and dreams of, like what you would become in life. And like you married somebody and I married somebody and you got a couple of kids and I didn't have kids at the time, but now I do have like a couple of kids. It's like we're really the same and I learned a lot. Like people can work for governments that, like you might oppose, but like that doesn't. Actually, once you get to know a person, you realize, oh, like I don't, I love this person. They're awesome, you know, like, so maybe their employer, like you know, doesn't get along well with, like you know, most of the government in my country, but like they as a person, like, there's so many cool people from so many different backgrounds.

Speaker 1:

And so I think we'll stop here because if we keep going, we're not going to have time to record your next episode and I really want to get into this life design and the idea that you shared at the beginning, which, if I was better at hosting, I could go back here. But you talked about holistic transformation. You said that you believe we have the ability to design our lives and then go and get the tools to build that life. Did I get that about right? Yeah, tools and skills, tools and skills to build that life. So okay, listener, you've gotten to know Jeff Lerner more. The next episode is down in the show notes and going and getting the tools and the skills to build the life that you desire. And if, per chance, you click on that link and it's not Wednesday yet, just wait, and that episode will be out two days after this episode, which airs on a Monday. Jeff, it's been really cool just chatting.

Speaker 2:

Amen, I love it. I can't wait for round two, but thanks for having me All right, cool.

Speaker 1:

Well, until the next time you see me or hear from me, be blessed, take care and goodbye.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Kwadwo Sampany-Kessie

Host