The Art of Online Business

How Two Sisters Built a Successful Website Design Business Featuring Krissy Chin & Claire VanBemmelen

• Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie • Episode 914

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Krissy, an author and business strategist, and Claire, a brand and website designer, are the sister duo behind the success of KNC Creative. They started their journey with a small project and now help other business owners create websites that look good and work well. 
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Today, they share how they combine their skills to make websites that are not only beautiful but also help businesses grow by attracting more customers. Krissy and Claire also explain how they work together as sisters and how their different skills assist them in making decisions that benefit their business and help their clients the most. 

Learn many valuable tips for anyone who wants to improve their website and learn how to collaborate effectively with others, even if it’s with your sister!


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Create or improve your website today: Get access to Krissy & Claire's "One Page Website in a Day" here!
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Watch the next episode on YouTube 'Website Design Strategies That Convert Visitors Into Customers With Krissy Chin & Claire VanBemmelen'
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‍‍Please click here to give an honest Rating/Review for the show on iTunes! Thanks for your support!

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Kwadwo [QUĀY.jo] Sampany-Kessie’s Links:




Krissy and Claire's Links:

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to another episode of the Art of Online Business podcast. And if you can see me right now, because you're watching on the YouTube channel, if you're not, that link is in the show notes below. But if you can see me right now, well, there's a couple things different. I got two ladies on as guests and we'll introduce them to you in a moment, but you can see that my wife, the co-host, is not here because she's not feeling too well, so pray for her, please. And if you have a website that you have been sitting on all of 2024, because it needs a makeover, but you just have been dragging your feet, or if you're one of the people out there who does not have a website, you're going to want to listen to this episode, because I have Chrissy and Claire. They are sisters and we're going to learn about how they built their business. And in the next episode, you're going to learn specifically from them about approaching your website with strategy first, so that you can actually convert. You know your website visitors and the customers quickly, and you're going to learn all about design and how it can have a lasting impact on your brand the people that visit your website.

Speaker 1:

So who are Chrissy and Claire. Well, let me read their bio to you, please. Well, after they leveraged their website and automated funnel to enroll 4,000 people into their paid membership in just four months, chrissy and Claire knew they could make a greater impact by helping ambitious entrepreneurs get their businesses online with a magnetic website and automated funnel to help them live out their purpose while still having time for the people and things they love. Between Chrissy's strategic wisdom gift for messaging and the love of sales and Claire's beautiful and functional design skills, they are the perfect duo. Their unique approach to how they build websites ensures it's not just a landing page but a place your people want to be and take action. And I must add, claire, chrissy, it was so good to meet you in person way back in Cabo, which what seems like just yesterday, but actually was three months ago already. Is that right?

Speaker 2:

Two and a half. Two and a half.

Speaker 1:

Two and a half. Two and a half. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, we're so excited to be here, yeah.

Speaker 1:

This is going to be a good one. I like interviewing everybody that I interview because that's the podcast interviewing process, right, but it's always a special treat when I get to interview folks that I hung out with for the past year. Listener, if you don't know what I'm talking about, we both are in something I guess three of us are in something called the mixer mind, and it's like peer to peer, it's like a peer mastermind, and there's just such genuine good people like online business owners in there, and so we've been in it now for a year together, and then we actually went to an in-person retreat for said Mix your Mind in Cabo, which is where we got to meet up and hang out even more, and so it's cool to hang out with you again.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I love sitting at the table with you and just getting to know you even more. We got placed at a little table because apparently our personalities are very similar. We were at the fun table, the personality table. But yeah, it's so crazy to have these online relationships and it feels like we've met each other in person because we see each other on video and all of that, but then to actually just meet in real life is just something really special.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there ain't nothing like real life and I'm definitely glad to have met you in real life so in this episode, because we both have the personality type that can just chat and get lost in the conversation. That's what I remember from Linda's talk about DISC and the various personalities.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So what I want to talk about is your business and your sisters and you have the successful business and I really want to start to just learn about how you, why you started, kind of the ups and downs. So the first question is for the listener who doesn't know you at all yet, but now will can you give us a snapshot of your business as it stands now? Where does your revenue come from? What kind of services do you offer? This sort of thing?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's been a mix this last year in terms of the revenue coming in from people who want to DIY their website and they want to learn the strategy. How do we do it, what is the funnel, what should the freebie be? All of that so learning that strategy from us and then actually using templates and our instruction to build out their website on their own. So some of our revenue comes in from that and then and I'd say, right now it's probably 50-50. And then the other piece is done for you services, and so you know it's evolved over time where it was just helping people DIY it themselves and then we were finding just certain clients that were like you know what can, like, I just really want someone to do this for us. And we were like, well, we have the you know, the team behind us that does this, supports us, claire and I and like one or two other people that support with copy and design as well, and so it's like, well, we could, we could do it for you. And so it just became an evolution of turning into done for you services and realizing that we do really enjoy that part.

Speaker 3:

I love working one-on-one with people. Claire loves actually designing and not just sort of instructing on design, and so it made sense and why now it's really 50-50, because that's a part and I can let Claire speak for herself that's a part that really fills me up, and so if we didn't have that in our business, I think I would get bored if I'm being honest and disinterested, she wouldn't get bored, she would be squirrely and try to find another way to fill it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, exactly, I'm a manifesting generator, so I want to do all the things, so it's like I would move on, and so I think this helps keep me focused. And staying in our zone of genius to be able to have this as well. But and staying in our zone of genius to be able to have this as well. But I you know, I'm the girl who wrote, sell while you sleep, so I also love an offer that can just be sold over and over again without support from the actual owner right, so we can scale our revenue and not always trade time for money.

Speaker 1:

What would you add to that, Claire?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think that there's and we're kind of diving into the strategy a little bit of maybe not necessarily website, but just business. There's something to be said about off like those are our two funnels. And being able to work one-on-one is so great and that is like being able to like delve into the design bit. That does fill me up, but that is a trading time for money, right. Equally, it's like counseling one-on-one versus group counseling, right. There's only a finite capacity when you do those done for you. So to be able to also provide our other funnel where we can teach you the strategy and you can take it, run with it, grow from it, Not only, I think, as in a business perspective, helps us be able to scale, but from an end user perspective, helps us reach more people. You know, and that's sort of you know, yes, there's two funnels, there's two monetary paths for us, but as far as the giving part, that creates the opportunity for us to really just like touch more people and help them get online so that they can then go serve others.

Speaker 1:

Okay, all right. Yeah, I'm going to ask you two questions and I'm preparing you for the next one while you answer the first one, which will be pretty much more straightforward. But sibling rivalry and who wins the fights? Usually between you two. Was it always like that? We want to know. I'm curious, while you're thinking of an answer that doesn't piss the other one off, you say you're Kajabi experts. Is that your favorite website platform to design on? Because you do design on others like Shopify, squarespace, wordpress. I'm curious.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I would say it is my favorite in the sense that, because we work with templates and we provide people with tools in order to do it themselves, it's the one. And how do I say this Politically correct? It's kind of it. Well, it's the one. And I how do I say this politically correct? It's kind of well, it's idiot proof. Like there, it's a lot easier to make sure.

Speaker 2:

I can hand off a template and you're going to come out on the other side knowing nothing with a with a clean, beautiful website beautiful, you know, offering beautiful layout, more so. And it's only because some of these other platforms are are well, some of them are really flexible to the point where that creativity that people don't have gets a little bit lost. Right, like, I give a template over and it's so customizable that the minute someone changes something around, it's no longer the thing that I provided to help secure their design. So Kajabi really allows for that. It really allows for someone to come in, upload a template, be able to swap out certain things, and it just sort of is that like safe, controlled design environment. I don't know if you want to add to that, as far as I didn't speak on like the fact that it's a full service suite at all yeah Well, and just to like keep going, claire.

Speaker 3:

so from you as a designer, like if you're doing, done for you, services where it doesn't matter the customer on the other end, is that still your favorite platform?

Speaker 2:

Yes and no. I mean, I'm so familiar with it.

Speaker 2:

I think it's the most efficient option because of my capabilities with across all the platforms. I've only recently sort of dabbled in show it and I do love the flexibility of being able to fully like drag things around and layer and overlap. And and there's like Kajabi has really set size parameters for text, for header one, two, three, whereas and that is important for SEO as far as utilizing those where and I can go into show it set something to a header too, but then also make it large so that visually design wise, there's just more custom customization while also knowing that the undertone is staying intact as far as SEO goes. If that makes sense, so it's for me that does not make sense.

Speaker 2:

No, okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1:

You remind me like you're the only one who doesn't get this, but still break it down for me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so there's some parameters when it comes to designing an SEO that on certain platforms, involve limitations, right and on certain platforms, they've figured out that you can set it up to be SEO efficient and then also be creative and design outside of that. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1:

now it makes sense now to my brain. You probably explained it perfectly fine, I just need a little more explaining.

Speaker 2:

Well, I delivered it very quickly, perfectly fine. I just need a little more explaining. Well, and I delivered it very quickly. So processing, yeah. So there's certain platforms that I think you can get more fun and creative and that kind of depends on the client a little bit, like what are, what is their ask, what are their, what are their wants, needs and and does that platform serve them? And it's it's kind of beyond just design too. You know, we have some clients, we have a lot of service-based clients, coaches and whatnot. So obviously they don't need a Shopify, they don't need a e-commerce site, but what they do need is a paywall for their membership and their trainings and coaching. So it really that is much easier in Kajabi than a lot of other platforms, because that's what that platform was designed for. So, again, it does really come down to the client. Okay, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1:

We're going to have to put the sibling rivalry question on hold, because I need one more question answered before you tell me who wins the fights and calls the shots, which is the listener is probably wondering, especially one who hasn't given their website the love it deserves. Like which platform should they start out with? Like I know, in the next episode we're going to talk about strategy and how a website should be to make money for you, right, but with all these platforms, what are you telling people these days?

Speaker 3:

I mean, again, we love Kajabi for the reasons Claire said. I am not, I don't have like a very intuitive techie brain Like you're, like you teach people automations and you know website stuff. But for me, I need simple, and Kajabi has been the platform that I have been able to understand the easiest. And so, for supporting people who are coaches and creatives and health practitioners, design and tech is not their zone of genius. They'd rather be assisting people in yoga classes or supporting that person with their one-on-one coaching. And so we don't want the business pieces of building the website in the funnel to be the thing that they have to spend the most time on. We want it to be smooth and easy, because they don't love that stuff. So, so that if finances are not the deciding factor, that is 100% our recommendation, you know. But also, at the end of the day, if you're just starting out and you're like, okay, well, I need to be super conscious of the budget that I have, you could find a free website, but then you're going to have to pay, you're going to have to pay for something, you have to pay for the email to then link it up, and it just creates all of these headaches. And then by the time you get everything added on that you need, you're already nearing that price point of what it might be, and so now you've had to integrate all of these things, and so it just keeps things really simple and streamlined.

Speaker 3:

We have actually we've been using Kajabi since 2016. We have veered away email and went over and used ActiveCampaign and after a year, we're like why are we paying double? We're not even using these features. We built our business to a multimillion dollar business on Kajabi solely. We came back, we took our affiliates and because we do affiliates with our stuff, so we took our affiliate platform and our checkout over to Thrivecart. Right, it's like, oh, we've been doing business for so long, we've been so successful, we've got to get more. You know intricate, intricate with what we're doing.

Speaker 3:

And it was like no, now people aren't getting what they actually need because the zap is breaking. And the thing it's like, no, now people aren't getting what they actually need because the zap is breaking, and it's like okay, it was working before. So we're back solely on Kajabi and we've tried the different things.

Speaker 1:

Okay, hold on. This might be well, I'm just going to ask it. I do not like Kajabi's checkout pages as a Facebook advertiser.

Speaker 1:

The analytics are horrendous. Every client that I get, like I'm at the point now where pointedly ask do you use Kajabi? And then it's like, if you want to run ads with me, you need to get Thrivecart, because I can't rely on the analytics coming out of Kajabi, even if I have the Facebook conversions API set up and the pixel or have one of them off. So what do you do for those clients who maybe they have low ticket offers? You setup and the pixel or have one of them off. So what do you do for those clients who maybe they have low ticket offers? You know that are the top of an SLO funnel, self liquidating offer funnel, you know, with order bump and an upsell? Where are you? What are you advising folks?

Speaker 3:

Well. So I would say a lot of our people that are coming in are in the beginning stages, and so they're not at the point where they're like trying to do these elaborate funnels and do ads. And so, again, if it's simplicity that you need or you won't do it, we have to stick with simple. And then, when you can go to that and our business we have multiple businesses. Our first business was built really without ads. I mean, our first million dollars was no ads. And then we did run ads and they were very successful, but that was before the whole iOS change and so the tracking was a lot more accurate, and so we have not done ads to the capacity of really needing that intricate analytics that you probably desire since all of the changes.

Speaker 3:

And so, again, if it's like, if you are doing something in your business like ads and you're you know, like you're telling them, okay, we want these more intricate analytics and to be able to track it, then yes, there's the purpose and the time for, okay, now it's time to integrate Thrivecart, but you do not need to start with all of the fancy things. And so, again, for us it was just like, okay, things are breaking over there, we're not even using ads right now. At this point, we just need to go back to simple so that we're not having to worry about this. So we can, because we've got I mean, our brand has gone through evolutions of change, right, it's been years. We've rebranded, we've, you know, dabbled in different things and niches and so, like you know, it's all had this underlying tone of websites, and so we're like, okay, now we just need to focus on that. But we've just had so much evolution that it's like simplicity has been something that we've just needed to keep moving forward.

Speaker 1:

Simplicity works, I mean. So let's talk about some of those evolutions that you've gone through. I know I'm super interested also. It might not be related, but the fact that you have a pink Tesla truck also is interesting to me and I'm sure the listeners are like wait, what's that about? It's another cool business that I've seen. You can talk about that. But first, sibling rivalry, because I never talked to anyone who ran business with their sister and what was it like? Who won the fights growing up and who wins the fights now?

Speaker 3:

Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, what do the? What does winning mean?

Speaker 1:

Not getting in trouble from the parent Not getting your way.

Speaker 3:

Ooh, the gist of that answer lets me know that Claire's the one that wins.

Speaker 1:

Yes, the trampoline incident.

Speaker 3:

That's a high one, we still talk about I'm the youngest of four girls.

Speaker 2:

Chrissy is the younger middle child, so if anyone ever studies or knows anything about birth order, it's safe to say that as, growing up regardless of whether I was in the right I typically won by assumption because she was the older sibling that one particular incident we had a backyard trampoline. Growing up and Chrissy was always very good about being the big annoying sister that I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you in the backseat of a car. So I think it's safe to assume there was something that she was doing that was making me agitated and upset and I pushed her off the trampoline. So in theory I was probably in the wrong. But when we ran inside I was crying because I was afraid I was going to get in trouble. My mom just assumed that Chrissy did something to me because I was crying. So therefore I won because they just assumed, my mom just assumed that you know she had done something as the bigger sister.

Speaker 2:

As an adult, our personalities have, I think, settled in in a way that just feels natural to let Chrissy lead, and so when it comes to like decision making in our business, often she's the, the idea creator, and so I relinquish a lot of the decisions to her because of just the. I think we could do better. Of course I, I I share and we talk about it and we poke holes and we're constantly making sure that we're moving in the right direction, but I think it just naturally works that we don't really argue, but when it comes to like winning a decision in our business oftentimes, chrissy, because I think I I think it's because I have mastered the art of persuasion.

Speaker 1:

Okay, all right.

Speaker 3:

You know, maybe, maybe not, I mean really when you are. I've learned so much in sales and all of that again like that's, like I love that stuff. And so you know, when you have an idea and you have to bring it to, if you have a partner, you have to bring it to. Your partner's goes for, like your spouse or like whoever right, you have to enroll them on this idea that it's a great idea. And so I've learned this along the way that if I'm bringing an idea to the table, I need to sell it right. And so either I'm doing a good job at that, or it was a good idea, or Claire's just like okay, that's great, but we do, we have conversations. We don't. It's not always like I just say this is what's happening.

Speaker 3:

I value Claire's opinion and because I think it's unique that we have this sister bond and relationship, because she's not afraid to push back, she's not afraid to call me out or to, and because we work so differently that her brain is like okay, let me ask.

Speaker 3:

She's the questioner, let me ask all of the questions, right, let me poke all of the holes in this, and if, at the end of the day, it still seems like the better idea, we'll go with it, but we just have such and again, we've known each other since we were, you know, babies.

Speaker 3:

So it's like we have this great relationship and and even though the little Tiff's growing up, it doesn't have that. You know, our family is very close and all of the sisters have had really good relationships growing up, and I was just speaking to our oldest sister on on winter break about this that I didn't realize that there were actually sisters that screamed and yelled and fought over who's wearing whose clothes. We never did that, and so it was like the first time I met someone who, like, hated their sister, I was like what, what do you mean? Like, my sisters are my friends. They're like now they're my best friends now that we're older, you know. So it's like we do have this special relationship and, like just Claire said, that we're so different and have different personalities. Our talents are opposite, so we don't step on each other's toes very much, which makes for a great partnership, right, and then also bonus for the client, because I've got my skills and she has hers.

Speaker 1:

So that's perfect. I mean, clearly you've grown the business to multiple millions. So, like, both of your personalities, though different, are complementary and the client's the one who's really benefiting here. Now you talked about your business evolution and I'm like is this the first business that you've both done together, or have you kind of evolved into this together, or this is?

Speaker 3:

well, knc Creative is technically our third business. The very first one was 28 to Elevate, which was a wellness program, because we were both in the like wellness space. Even though Claire's degree was in design, you know that that arena and I was a nurse. We ended up in the wellness space and so that was our first course and it didn't. We were just focused on two different things. So it sort of fizzled out quickly and then circled back together exactly one year later and launched Grow Workspace, which was our really our first successful, very successful business serving young living distributors and creating content. That business still exists. We still generate recurring revenue from that and from the membership over there, and that's where we really learned.

Speaker 3:

you know, websites, funnels and support a lot of people over there with automation, and so it just sort of, you know, we were speaking to and serving that very specific community, creating pre-made content for them to market their products and sell their products in the direct sales space, and we started to have people coming from outside of that community saying you know, how do I create a course, how do I get this online, how do I build my own business? And so that's really just sort of where it evolved and realized we needed another brand, because who doesn't need another brand right To serve the broader community? And so that's KNC Creative. Now we did a rebrand a year, over a year ago.

Speaker 3:

And then we have the Choose Fun business, which is newer, and Claire and I are also partners with some other people, my husband including, which is his baby. But that's where the pink Tesla truck comes to play. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It seems really cool. So you have a partnership that's working and you're delivering great results to your client. Like what is if there was what was a challenging point along the way where you almost decided to break up, so to speak, and each do your separate things?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, certainly in. Well, every you know people that had online businesses in 2020, and I talk about this in my book and get real, real raw with it. I know we've got limited time here, but in 2020, things were great, Just like every other online business. Right In 2021, things with GrowWorks they started to really, really take a turn and the ads all changed, all the ads shifted and all of that, and we really needed to figure out how to turn that business around or it was no longer and so had to make some really hard decisions change the whole way that we brought content or didn't bring content to people. We let go of over half of the contractors that we had hired like 30 grand in expenses, literally like cut overnight and so shifted the whole thing there. And because we wanted to focus more time on KNC Creative, you know.

Speaker 3:

But there was that moment, I think, when before KNC Creative, it was the Chrissy Chin brand and I wanted to do more of these people serving these people outside of the young living community and Claire just wasn't there at that moment and Claire, I'll let you speak to that and so it was. It was my own brand, that I that started off there and then, over the last couple of years, we brought Claire back in and now it's the two of us, which has been amazing, but there was definitely some rocky times in there, where Claire again I'll let you speak to how you were feeling in terms of, you know was a podcast, a she had put together the scalable podcast system and wanted to teach people how to get their courses and online and get their podcasts going.

Speaker 2:

And that just like wasn't. At the time when she we had briefly, I think you had briefly asked me to come on I was like that's not the direction I'd want to go, like, if anything I'd want to be an art director or like, go go into the design part. Like I don't want to teach you how to make a podcast. I don't know the first thing about that, so I kindly, you know, declined. And then I think that was when Build a Blistle Business was kind of of like you were in the works of trying to figure out what that was and it wasn't. I think you came around gosh, was it almost a year later, after you had been doing badass is a new black and you were doing your own thing in the coaching space, and you came back around and wanted help with creating this program to actually support people in building their websites and wanted that design support. And that was when I was like, yes, I can, I can help build that out and train through the course, you know, through the lessons, train people on how to do that.

Speaker 2:

But for that entire it was almost probably another year where we were. We were making great money with build, a bustle business. It was still under the Chrissy Chin umbrella and we had switched to equal partnership. But I, just I didn't. I would go out there and someone would ask me what I did and I'm like, oh, I, you know, I'm a founder of this company. And they'd be like oh, what's the company? I'm like the Chrissy Chin brand, the Chrissy Chin like chrissychincom.

Speaker 2:

My name's Claire. Like it doesn't make. It didn't make any sense. I didn't feel like I had any ownership, and so we had a hard conversation at the end of 2023. I'm not able to put two feet in, because this isn't my brand, this isn't, this isn't something that I feel like I can take ownership in because of the way it's positioned, you know, on the internet. And so we made a hard decision and decided to totally rebrand to the, to the KNC creative, so that we could really fully show up as this, like partnership, and now, like often it was, I mean, even still now Chrissy is the face, because I am more of the behind the scenes and I think it's just. It's really started to. We've started to drive home this partnership, coming on podcasts together and making sure that we are communicating both sides of the story, because we're both a big part of it.

Speaker 1:

Gotcha Okay. Well, as we transition into the next episode, what is the one thing that you would leave the listener to ponder and think about regarding their website?

Speaker 3:

I was, before you said their website. I was like, oh, I got something. Then you said website. I mean I think it goes mean, I think it goes is that business is a journey.

Speaker 3:

Business is always evolving because we are humans. We're evolving, we're growing, we're expanding, and so your business will as well. So you know we'll. I'm sure we'll talk about this a lot, as my mottos are with action comes clarity, and done is better than perfect. So it's better to just take some action to get clarity and know that in time we'll make it better or we'll do more, or we'll expand. To add on thrive card, you know, whatever it is. But don't let your perfectionism get in the way of just taking some action and doing it, and doing it messy and doing it sloppy and like who cares if you're screwing up. You're learning along the way, and so, whether it's, you know, focusing on your website or your business, you have to start somewhere. But you have to start.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Well said, well said. So you're listening to this episode. We've reached the end In the link in the show notes. Below is where you can click to go to the next episode, where Chrissy and Claire are going to give a little mini masterclass on approaching your website with strategy first, so that you can actually convert your webpage visitors into customers quickly. And me, as somebody who has a website too, I cannot wait to hear that conversation. Thank you to both for being here. On the art of online business podcast.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for having us All right and a listener until I see you in the next one or you hear me in the next one. However that works. Take care, be blessed and we'll see you soon. Bye.

Speaker 2:

Bye.

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Kwadwo Sampany-Kessie

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