Scaling self-pour tap walls: Inside Oak & Stone's expansion | 074

Growing from one restaurant to nine teaches you that what worked at one location might not work at another. In this episode of The Pre-Shift Podcast, we sit down with Sam Aguilar, Brand President of Oak & Stone Restaurants, to discuss what it actually takes to scale a multi-unit concept without losing your culture along the way. Sam shares how Oak & Stone built a communication system that cascades from his weekly one-on-ones all the way down to the pre-shift, plus why he tracks two labor metrics. Whether you're opening your second location or your ninth, Sam's approach to scheduling, people development, and labor productivity offers practical takeaways for restaurants looking to grow.

Key Takeaways

• Two Numbers, Not One: Hear why Sam tracks checks per labor hour alongside sales per labor hour — and how rising prices can dilute what's really happening on the floor.
• The Hardest Jump Isn't Zero to One: Discover why going from one location to two was Sam's toughest stretch, and why the processes that worked for a single-unit operator had to be rebuilt from scratch.
• A Cascade That Doesn't Break: Learn how Sam's communication flows from his weekly one-on-ones down through area leads, GMs, and managers, ending in a daily pre-shift built around exactly three things.
• Systems Over Memory: Find out why Sam pushes leaders toward PAR-based ordering and documented standards instead of letting critical knowledge live in one person's head.
• The Tap Guide Role: Understand how Oak & Stone staffs and measures the person responsible for guiding guests through a 50-tap self-pour wall, and how that role became a real career path.
• Feedback Is a Gift, Even for Your Best People: Hear Sam's case for spending five minutes and a cup of coffee recognizing high performers, who often get overlooked simply because they're not the ones causing problems.
• Hiring Is Everything: Discover why Sam calls people selection the single most important decision a growing operator makes, since it creates almost every problem and solves almost every problem down the line.

Resources

• Connect with Sam Aguilar on LinkedIn 🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-aguilar-75b05667/
• Oak & Stone 🍺 https://oakandstone.com/

Chapters

00:00 Meet Sam Aguilar
00:51 Career Path to President
02:02 Oak and Stone Growth Story
04:01 Hardest Jump One to Two
07:51 Scheduling for New Volume
09:39 Leading Multi Unit Teams
10:34 Meeting Waterfall Culture
14:00 Systems Not Tribal Knowledge
15:54 Labor Metrics That Matter
18:15 Tap Guide Self Pour Wall
21:32 Scaling Past Seven Units
25:45 Developing Leaders Internally
31:39 Texas Expansion Playbook
34:58 Franchising and Partner Fit
36:18 Advice and Favorite Menu Items
40:27 Key Takeaways and Wrap

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7shifts is a restaurant platform that helps operators and managers hire, train, schedule, pay and retain their restaurant teams. With an easy-to-use platform and industry-specific solutions, 7shifts saves time, reduces errors, and helps keep costs in check for over 55,000 restaurants.

Transcript

0:00

Hey, I'm Sam Aguilar, brand president with Oak & Stone Restaurants At every Oak & Stone, there are 50 self-pour taps with a dedicated guide to walk you through them. They have eight locations in Florida and just added a ninth in Texas, and they're not stopping anytime soon. Sam Aguilar is the brand president of Oak & Stone. When Sam joined nine years ago, there was only one location. Today, Sam tells us about the critical jump from one location to two, the trickle-down of meetings that keeps nine teams aligned, the unusual hire it takes to staff a self-pour tap wall, and the labor metric he runs alongside sales per labor hour because inflation made the old one lie. My name is DJ, and you're listening to The Pre-Shift by 7shifts. hey, Sam, how are you today? I'm great, DJ. Thanks for having me on. Great to meet you Let me just dive right in. So tell me a little bit about your background. You're at Oak & Stone now as the brand president, um, but you've had a career in restaurants leading up to that at Stonewood. Walk me through your career path to where you are today and, you know, what you learned and what you were building. Yeah, like, uh, many people, you know, I caught the bug. Uh, I had, uh, graduated college with different intentions, got my first job in a restaurant, fell in love, and never looked back. Uh, I had 13 years with Stonewood Holdings. Uh, opened a, a location as a managing partner, uh, grew into an area, uh, director role, and then grew into a vice president role with them. And I ended up moving on and, uh, taking a little bit of time looking for the next great opportunity where I could spend 13 years, and came across Oak & Stone when they had one location, and, uh, found a brand that I really fell in love with. Uh, I've been with Oak & Stone now for nine years, uh, and have grown this concept from one location to nine locations. We actually just opened our ninth, uh, two weeks ago. Well, one week ago, uh, in McKinney, Texas. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. And you, uh, and you found the time after opening a restaurant to come and talk to us, so we're very grateful for That's right. That's right So, um, talk to me about Oak and Stone a little bit. Um, you know, what… how did you join the brand, um, at that one location? You know, what role? And then, uh, I'm curious, you know, how you stepped up and, um, you know, when the brand started to grow. I know then there's some, you know, an acquisition from Artistry at that time when you had five locations. But talk to me a little bit about the brand itself, what drew you to it, um, and then I guess, you know, that first… those first five locations, what that w- what, what that experience was like. When I first walked in, uh, you know, I looked at it and I thought that, you know, this is a unique concept. You know, craft kitchen and loaded taps. It seemed as something that is highly approachable and really fits everywhere. I joined, as I said, in that, in a director of operations role, uh, at one location with the, uh, the purpose of helping to expand, uh, the brand. Uh, and then opened, uh, four more locations. We got to five locations before, uh, the great shutdown that we remember in, uh, in 2020. Um, you know, and we had to put some-- We had to put our growth, uh, plans on pause for a little bit, uh, as we all remember navigating that, that area. And, uh, we came back. Artistry acquired us in, uh, '20. The beginning of 2022, uh, we set our sights on the next restaurants to open. Uh, we had two more at that point we put under development, opened our next two locations in the fall of 2023. Uh, and then, uh, have opened, uh, two more recently. Uh, we opened our eighth location, uh, in December, just opened our ninth location, as I said, last week. Uh, in my time with the brand, I've grown from director of operations to vice president of operations. Uh, was in that role for, uh, almost three years, and then moved into the brand president role, uh, that I currently serve at Oak & Stone. Very nice. What was the hardest, um, jump from one to two, two to three? And I guess I'm curious what, where the intricacies are in between those. Like, you know, obviously zero to one is probably the hardest, getting a restaurant open. You came after the Yeah. But, Yeah you know, what, what to you was the hardest, um, the hardest one? You know, I would say that the jump to two was probably the most difficult, um, because at that point, you know, you're pulling all of your resources out of one location. So if it takes a training team of 10 or 15 or 20 people, you're pulling all of those resources out of your only other location. Uh, also, you know, when you're operating one restaurant, the things that got you here aren't gonna get you there, right? So typically a, a single unit operator is very hands-on, is very involved in all of the decision-making and all of the processes and all of the oversight, and as you start to grow, uh, that's not feasible, right? So I, I, I'd say that was probably the most difficult. Uh, there's certainly growing pains at, at each of the, the steps along the way. Um, you know, and, and quite honestly, you know, they're all people related, right? It's a people business, and it… That's the-- that is the commodity or the resource that is the hardest to come by, um, because you've got to grow it. In that jump from one to two, you're pulling from the existing pool of people that are working at that one location. So maybe… I mean, you don't wanna take all the best people, right? You wanna leave some of the good ones at the first Absolutely. And was there a particular thing you remember? It could be, you know, a process or, um, a role or something in that one-to-two jump that's particularly memorable about like, "Oh, we gotta do something differently," or like, "Oh, we gotta figure out a better way to do this, yeah, I, you know, it's-- it probably was processes, right? The things that worked, you know, 'cause, uh, they also were doing different volume, right? Our, our second location opened up, uh, considerably busier than our first location. Great site selection, great brand recognition, uh, and waiting for us to come to market. But, you know, some of those processes, um, that again, people become accustomed to as a single unit operator, you know, really needed to change, and we needed to, to put those in place. And I think that's one of the key things to growth is having scalable processes and having great processes, right? Like I'll tell you on one hand, we are a people business, and it's all about people and relationships. But you need, um, you need systems in order to be able to grow and be successful. And I, you know, sometimes I would use the term, uh, building the airplane while flying it. Uh, and that's a lot of what those first couple of locations are, right? You're figuring out the things that work. Uh, and a lot of things that work-- a lot, a lot of things that work in one location, your first location, don't always work at the next ones. At one location, you know, we had a general manager that was very used to doing all of the things himself, uh, and growing to two locations and supervision, uh, uh, of another location, you know, understanding that, you know, you, you've gotta let some of that stuff go, or you've gotta have solid systems, whether it's pars or it's a, a, a scheduling template in place, um, to be able to duplicate that. Um, you know, we, we learned, we learned that, you know, schedules that worked in one location didn't work in another location. Uh, different volume came at different times. Uh, volume came in different waves, uh, and having to change the approach to that scheduling was a big part of it Interesting. Yeah, we definitely wanna dive a little bit more into that. I think it was, you know, expanding the amount of employees. You know, we went from one location that, uh, you know, did, did consistent volume, um, and had a great core group of people that all worked full-time. Uh, getting to that second location, uh, had a higher volume with a lot of people that, um, did not want to necessarily work full-time. They wanted to work a couple of shifts a week. Um, we-- it required us to pivot i- in some of those, uh, some of those beliefs in scheduling. What were some of those like, you know, nitty-gritty operational things, um, that needed to change from a scheduling perspective in that expansion? We moved more towards, uh, staggering shifts so that we could have, uh, enough employees at peak volume, but not necessarily having to have them for the full day or the full shift. Yeah it was a, it was a more… It w- it did-- this location did a lot more late-night business. They were in a downtown area, um, that got quite a lot of foot traffic and a lot of events that were later at night. So pivoting to bring people in later, so someone, you know, a server wasn't working a, an eight to a 10-hour shift, um, were, were a lot of the changes that had to be made for the managers that were used to scheduling, you know, scheduling the staff from 5 to 10, and everybody worked 5 to 10, to really having to get creative. They did a much stronger happy hour, so implementing some of, you know, what some people would call a swing shift or a mid-shift, where someone might come in a, a little bit later, uh, for lunch and stay through the afternoon to carry through, so we could bring closers in later in the evening because they were

staying until 1: 9:37

00 in the morning. You're not in one location all the time. What was that split like for you, and how has that evolved now, you know, two to five to now eight and nine? Um, you know, you're Or now you have to be nine places at once. How has your role Yeah. and, and how have you found the best way to stay, you know, in as many places as you can? The things that get you to be a great single unit operator, usually because, as I mentioned, you're very involved, you control a lot of things, and moving into multi-unit, you know, you have to understand that you can't control everything, and you can't be involved in everything, and continuing to add locations. Um, you know, growth creates complexity, uh, but unfortunately, complexity kills growth. Sure having to, to empower, to teach, uh, and to trust is, is a big part of that. Um, 'cause as you said, I can't be in nine places at once, and nor do I want to be in nine places at once. How do you build that culture? What are some of the actual tactics, things you've done? It could be types of meetings, styles of communication. Um, how do you build a culture of trust, um, from the top down, from Yeah. position? know, yeah, I mean, you mentioned communication. That's a critical part of it. Um, and that's, you know, one of those things also as you start to grow, um, that, that can get away from you. Um, you know, so, you know, things that, things that we currently use, right? Structured one-on-ones and people development, you know. So I'll do, uh, a one-on-one, uh, with each of my area leads or my direct reports on a weekly basis. Um, you know, this is a time to connect personally, uh, to connect professionally, um, but really about, about the other person and the things that they wanna talk about. Um, not necessarily business a-and results driven. Uh, you know, doing a, a weekly group meeting, uh, that this is where the direction comes from. This is where we discuss, uh, business results. We discuss, you know, the, the objectives that we need to meet, the problems we need to solve in the business, um, as a group, so we're all aligned on the same things moving forward in the same direction. That ca- gets cascaded from, you know, my direct reports or area leads down to all of our general managers, that they are weekly meetings. So we bring all the general managers, and we do it remotely, uh, you know, now, Yeah through video conferencing. But really important to keep everybody aligned and k- and to make sure that the communication is making its way all the way down. Uh, weekly GM meeting. From there, you know, we, we cascade down to a weekly directional i- of the management team in the restaurants. And ideally, we're cascading all of this information all the way down into the ranks in the restaurant, um, because what I've found is that oftentimes that's, that's what ends up getting missed, right? So as you grow from, uh, overseeing one location to a, a couple of locations, and then you get to five or eight or 10, uh, the communication can start to falter Sure Um, you know, you, you think you said something to some- to somebody, and maybe it didn't, maybe that wasn't the same person, or the information doesn't make its way all the way down. So I think that those weekly meetings or directionals are critical, uh, and at the restaurant level too, right? And then that gets cascaded down to daily pre-shifts with the team so they know what's important, what's going on, um, you know. And that, that communication, the attention span's often, uh, quite a bit shorter. You know, I'll see people try to overly complicate their pre-shift meetings with all of the stuff Yeah we want to talk about. And at that point, you know, you need to communicate the three things that are most important. What are the objectives for today? Get your team pumped up, get them excited, um, you know, and, and let them know what the direction and the expectation is. Absolutely. And, you know, and it seems like it's kinda coming down from, you know, your level through virtual meetings, right? Maybe their weekly cadence. Um, you know, and there's a nice trickle-down, um, you know, flow, like you said. There's a flow down all the way to, you know, servers sh- in the pre-shift meeting. As things grow and teams grow and people come in and out, um, a lot of information gets locked up, you know, in certain people's brains, right? Especially, you know, in restaurants where it's, "Oh, that's just how it's done," right?"How do you do that? Ask so-and-so." Um, you know, what… Do you have a process for kind of, a process for extracting information? Well, I think there's a couple things there. The, the first one is, is standards and systems, right? Um, because you find that too often. There's somebody, whether it's the server that's been there for years and they know how things are supposed to be done or what the, what the leader of that restaurant, the boss wants, or the way that they like it. Um, and while you can't over… You can't over-document and complicate things with manuals and, and pages and pages of rules and standards, right? Um, I guess that's where great people selection comes into place,'cause if you, if you hire great people, you don't need to inundate them with a rule for everything. Good people make good decisions. You provide guardrails, and you provide, um, areas that they can operate within. Uh, but you do need to have those standards documented in order to be able to properly train and continue to move forward. So the processes of, of how you do things do need to be documented so it can be trained, right? And systems are trainable. Systems are duplicatable. I talk to leaders all the time about PARs, right? PAR-based ordering. Whereas, you know, you, you encounter those, uh, those kitchen managers or those bar managers who know what they need. They know how much they need, which is great that you are so in tune with your business, but that's not duplicatable. We can't train future leaders. We can't grow if everything has to live in your head. Sure you know, PAR-based ordering i- is one of those systems that I highly recommend, um, because you can teach people how to do that. Um, it, it all can't live inside somebody's head So par-based inventory management, that seems like that's one of the main, you know, KPI. are some of the other ones that you're looking at that you're teaching that, you know, are, are critical to communication? I'd say, I'd say a big one right now is labor productivity. Okay you know, we're in Florida, and as minimum wage continues to increase, the rate that servers are paid continues to go up every year, and productivity is really, is really important. And I think that's a new way… Well, I shouldn't say it's a new way of measuring it, but everyone needing to get a- adapted to measuring labor results on productivity, checks per labor hour, um, or sales per labor hour, as opposed to just a percentage of their sales, uh, or a margin of the sales. You know, we've, we have moved now from just doing sales per labor hour to also looking at checks per labor hour. Um, you know, because through the, through recent inflation, I mean as, as you've seen, restaurants, everybody's been raising prices, and you can get a, a falsely inflated sales per labor hour result just through increasing prices. So really looking at both of those, the sales and the checks per labor hour, to measure productivity, and that, that's really the, the new focus, um, for what optimal labor or right-sized labor looks like. Um, weekly primes. You know, we run a weekly prime report, um, that measures, uh, our cost of goods based on purchases and then on inventory weeks based on inventory, um, as well as that, that labor number So labor, you're saying sales per labor hour, and then you said checks per labor hour. Are you, you're looking at both of those or, you know, what is Look at both of those, you? Okay. yes. Yeah, so we look at, we look at both of those, um, and try to fit in a, a, a window for each of them. So f- uh, based on our business model, you know, optimal labor comes in somewhere around 70, uh, $70 of sales per labor hour. Uh, it comes in right around 1.42 checks per labor hour or how many, you know, guests or checks we can serve, uh, for, for each dollar of labor that we spend Okay. So the checks gives you a little bit more about like the actual workload of somebody. Okay. And that, um, that role you mentioned, is that the tap, tap guy? Tap Guide, yeah a little bit about that. That's a different role, yeah, so, so as I had mentioned, one of the great features o- of Oak & Stone is the self-pour tap wall, as a guest, that can create some, um, you know, s- because it's something new, it can be unfamiliar and be a little scary. So, you know, we use the role of the tap guide. You think of it as a tour guide. Uh, you think of it as a bartender for self-pour taps, where we've got someone who's the subject matter expert in beverage who is up there helping you make the right decisions. So if you come up and you say, "I normally drink this," we can guide you to something that we have that is, is gonna meet what your favorites are, and hopefully also get you to explore a little, to, uh, to try some things maybe you haven't tried before.'Cause we do a lot of craft beer. Uh, you know, we don't do a lot of macros on this wall. It's a lot of craft beer. We've got wine. We've got, uh, non-alcoholic mocktails, which have, have really been growing for us. Uh, we've got cocktails o- on this wall, and we've got spirits at the new locations, um, you know, some high-end spirits that we're able to put on there that you get an opportunity to, to sample and try. That's awesome. And the top guy kind of all, um, you know, oversees all of that as well. How do you, how do you scale a role like that? How do you track their, for example, their productivity, And how do you staff for that, frankly? I guess so quite simply, we measure that on beverage sales, you know, our margin, our percentage of sales that, that are in beverage. Um, you know, we measure a lot of that based on, specifically on beer. Um, you know, how we define success would be increased beverage incidents, more beverages that are served. Um, you know, how that role is measured and grows is based on guest engagement, guest interaction, Okay um, getting more people to convert and get comfortable with pouring their own beverage, um, and get excited about that, right? Like, we're the place where you get to come up and explore different options, um, and sample different things and find new favorites. Without the right person in the role, which I think is, is part of what you're getting to, uh, we just become the place where you have to pour your own beverage. So getting the right person in that role is critical. Um, and as I said, we measure it by guest engagement. Uh, if we have better guest engagement, we have more people coming up and, and trying and exploring the wall, we increase our beverage sales from that. Um, you know, we had a-- You know, in, in that growth and development, we had a gentleman who actually opened our Naples restaurant, uh, as that tap guide, uh, did a great job with building the beverage program there, uh, had the opportunity to be developed and grow into a beverage director role with us. And then when we joined Artistry Restaurants, actually developed into the beverage manager position for all of the Artistry restaurants across all of the brands and all of the locations. So a, a very proud moment for Oaken Stone in the people development That's awesome. yeah, growth from within. Um, I'm assuming that's a major part of, um, you know, getting to that eight locations. When did things start to really change for you, um, about, you know, you said one to two was the hardest. Um, but when did you start to see maybe a shift, if you will? Um, you know, in maybe your role or like, you know, when did things start to get a little different? Eight locations is probably a, a good point to, to hit on because, you know, as an area leader of the multi-unit supervision, I think that somewhere, you know, in full-service restaurants, somewhere around seven locations is really kind of that, that point, right? For some brands it might be six, for some it might be, uh, eight to 10. For us, it's right around that seven to eight range. So as we grew to eight, had to add a second area leader to my team, um, a-and start to redist-redistribute things. Industry talent, when you hire from the outside, that brings knowledge, right? Um, but it doesn't necessarily bring culture. Um, whereas when you're developing people internally, they're filled with the culture. They're filled with the brand. They don't have the experience, Sure in the leadership role. So you, you've really got to lean into developing the people from the inside and sprinkle in the industry talent that bring new ideas, you know, new ways of thinking about things and approaching problems from, from things they've learned in their past at different brands, and they, they can really bring a great angle to it. Yeah but, but especially for us, preserving that culture, uh, and what our DNA is, um, really leans heavily into developing from within. And that's where some of those, you know, the communication like you mentioned and the meetings and, and all of that seems to come into play, right? That's how you distill some of the culture down. So, you know, what are some of the ways maybe you distill culture specifically down? Maybe not necessarily numbers or processes or just news or updates, but culture itself. Knowing the people, um, is, is the best way really. So, you know, even, even as brand president, I have organ- I organize my week, and I typically have two days a week where I try and pack with w- the necessary meetings a- and the other things that go along, which gives me, you know, three to four days a week to spend out in the field with the teams. Um, and, uh, the majority of the time that I spend in the restaurants is with people. Uh, it's spending time with people, um, developing relationships, um, not just, uh, you know, inspecting operations or focusing on processes. That's a very little part of it. The, the biggest part is developing relationships and building that bench strength and, and, uh, spotting future talent, uh, a- and investing in that Any ways that you particularly have found are good ways to spot talent or things that you've learned over time that, you know, what makes a good person to promote? Oh, it's a, it's a big secret. It's a, it's a huge, it's a huge reveal. Get to know them . Right? It's that simple. Get to know them. Um, you know, uh, having conversations. So, and being genuine, being real, um, you know, you've gotta have a passion for people, um, I think to be in this business. Uh, you know, you've really gotta love that side of it. Um, you know, what I've found is that when you've got a relationship, uh, whe- whether it's with a vendor or it's with an employee or it's with an employer, when you've got a relationship, you get a little bit of grace, right? We're all human. We all make mistakes, right? I'll be the first person to tell you I make mistakes on a regular basis probably. Uh, but when you've got a relationship, right, y- you get a little bit of grace. And when you know someone and they know you, um, I mean, really getting to know them as a, as a human, um, you become invested in them. They become loyal to you. They become invested in you and what you're trying to do. Um, and, and getting to understand what their goals are, what they want to accomplish, and then figuring out how to help them reach that within the organization is a huge part, uh, of developing the relationships and the future talent-. Do you have a standard process for developing people, like a, a program or, um, you know, specific milestones that you do, like a systematized version of, you know, career pathing, for example? We have a pathway to GM, Okay what we call it here. Uh, you know, for us, it, it, it goes through the full steps. So as an hourly employee, you express interest into wanting to do more. We spot someone with talent who has the values, who's a cultural fit, which really is the biggest part for us. Uh, as a values-based organization, we look to hire, we look to develop people who possess our values. Uh, I'm a big believer that you can train task, right? I can teach you how to write a schedule. We can teach you how to, uh, mix a drink or serve a guest or, or prepare an item, um, but we can't teach you to be a good person, right? So starting with those values, when we find that, uh, the rest of it comes in training, right? It's investing in people and in training. So we start from that hourly role, developing into what we call a key leader. You get some responsibility in the restaurant. Um, you know, starting small, you might manage a, a small budget. You might, might manage linen cost, um, or, uh, or paper supplies ordering, right? You get a little bit of a budget, uh, i-in that hourly role. Um, you start learning the sched- what it means to work a manager or a leader schedule, right?'Cause that's a big change for someone going from a server to a manager in their scheduling. You start to get a feel for some of that without all the pressure. Um, hopefully, you get to experience a lot of the good stuff, the fun stuff, the people stuff. Um, and then as they grow through that, then we look at going into management or salaried leader with us, and we've got, uh, an eight-week training program that we do that is structured. Uh, you're learning specific things. You're participating, uh, in, in certain areas, different areas each week, um, starting to learn the, the processes, the systems, uh, and, and how we run things. Um, there are daily sit-downs and follow-ups with the training manager, uh, who's responsible for your management training. There are weekly, uh, sit-downs a-and follow-ups with the area lead who is overseeing your training for the position that you've been hired for. So at each step along the way, we're making sure that you're getting the information that- You're getting the training that you need. You have an opportunity to speak up if something's not going well or you're not learning, you don't feel you're learning what you need. Uh, then after you graduate, um, you know, we use, uh, the one-on-one system that I mentioned, right? Weekly manager one-on-ones. So the GMs… I mentioned weekly one-on-ones with my direct reports. We cascade that all the way down. The GMs do-- I mean, sorry, the area leaders do one-on-ones with their GMs. The GMs do those one-on-ones with their managers. We've got, uh, you know, it's a simple system. It's a binder. Okay. school paper. But we use that because in there, you know, as you're working on self-development, because development's gotta be self-led, right? They can keep copies of the things that go along with it, whether it's an order guide or it's a training, uh, training document for a system. They can keep all that so when we sit down, we can check in and measure their progress in relation to their areas of responsibility and their self-led development. Awesome. And how long does that typically take? And, you know, how… Is it, like, rolling all the time as needed as you're opening? Or is it, you know, a, a class or, you know, how does that work logistically? Yeah, not really a class. Uh, you know, as I said, we'll sit down, you know, we expect the leaders to sit down with, uh, w- with their reports, um, on a regular basis. You know, I've often said even, you know, best advice I can give any new manager is the most powerful tool in your toolbox is the one-on-one conversation, right? Sitting down to be able to talk to someone about the things they're doing well, the things that you recognize, right?'Cause the number one thing people want is appreciation and recognition. So, you know, too oftentimes the high performers don't get that feedback because everybody invests their time and effort into the low performers, right? But taking time to sit down with a high performer, uh, to take five minutes and grab a cup of coffee and tell them what they're doing great, what you appreciate them for, um, is just as important as taking those 10 minutes to sit down to talk to the, the person on your team that needs work and, uh, need, needs to do a better job. It's all important. Feedback is a gift. Um, so it's, uh, not just to the, the team members, but to the managers, uh, as I said. That's ongoing. It's not something that only happens as they come out of training. Uh, it, it's not something that necessarily follows a, a system. Um, it's ongoing, right? There is no end date to development And are there standardized, you know, benefits or compensation bumps, you know, along that program? You know, do they know, say, at the end of this I get, you know, X more an hour or however that works? You know, Yeah. I mean, it's all, all along there are those things, Okay we're in a performance-based environment. So, you know, as you, as you move from a, an, an hourly in a role into a key leader, so if we're talking about an hourly employee who moves into a supervisor, uh, position, there's a, a pay increase that comes with that along with the responsibility. You know, moving into management, moving from a, an assistant manager, uh, to an assistant general manager to a general manager, um, you know, there are, there are, are checks all along that way that involve adjustments to compensation that, uh, go hand in hand with the adjustments to responsibility Awesome. And I'm curious, you know, now that you're growing, you know, we're coming, coming up at time here, um, know, going to Texas, you just opened that first out-of-state market. Um, you know, what is that like for you as a brand president? Um, you know, what is it like going somewhere new, you know, not in Florida, where people don't know you yet? I think you hit on the exactly what was most different is new market, new area, nobody knows us, there's no brand recognition. So as we've grown around Florida, we've been very intentional in the markets that we've gone into, and there's been brand recog-recognition. People knew who we were before we came to market. They'd experienced us in a nearby town, um, or had, had seen us. Whereas moving to Texas, um, there was no familiarity. Um, you know, we selected a great market that really, really fit who we are and, and how we operate, and, one of the great things we did is we brought… we invited, uh, quite a few influencers from Texas, brought them to Florida, and got to fully immerse them in a Oak & Stone experience from not just dining a-and, and as a guest, but also to get back behind the scenes and experience some of that. We created some buzz with that. Um, you know, mo-moving like that into a totally new state, totally new market, um, you know, it, it takes a lot of intentionality. You gotta pick the right market. Uh, you've gotta get some recognition out there up front. Um, and from opening the restaurant, for us, you know, I come back to what I mentioned before, which is being a values-based organization. You know, we, we took, we took our time with finding, uh, the management fits, the, the leaders for that restaurant being the first one, to make sure they were fully aligned culturally with us. We brought them to Florida and fully immersed them in all of their training here for, uh, an extended period of time, a longer than normal training program, to make sure they got all things that are Oak& Stone before going back, uh, to, to Texas. And then there's a high level of support. Um, you know, there's one of us that's out there with them all the time from myself. Like I'll-- I will spell in, the area leader spends a week out there, and then I go and spend, uh, time to, to let him get back and visit the couple of restaurants that he's got in Florida, and then he goes back out and I come home. Because we want to really lean into the support early, um, because getting the restaurant open was not the finish line. That was the starting line. That's the starting blocks, right? That's when it… That's when you've really gotta lean into, um, the things that, that you need to ensure happen every day to, to uphold the brand standards. Um, it, it's not just getting it open, it's really starting to grow it once it opens. Curious how you settled on Texas first, um, and then what are some of those things that you have to do every day? We picked Texas because, you know, Texas i- is business friendly. We've had some investors that, uh, have a lot of relationships in the, in the Dallas area, and that's, that's how we kind of picked this as our first step outside the state of Florida, was through relationships that were had and, and a place that, uh, that, that makes it easy to, to open and start and scale a business. Okay. As we kind of come to a close here, is franchising something that's still on the table? That's, you know, what I saw. Um, you know, and what has to be kind of true for you guys before you then trust someone else with your brand? Franchising is still, uh, something that we are, uh, excited about and planning to explore. Um, you know, it's-- we have not fully gone into that yet because quite honestly, there's plenty of opportunities for more company-owned, uh, restaurants, uh, throughout the state of Florida, a-as well as starting a new market in Texas. It really comes down to finding the right partner, right? Like finding us, as I mentioned, being a values-based organization, finding the right franchise partner, um, who is, you know, does have the same values as we do, uh, who we are sure can uphold the brand standards, uh, as we venture into other states and more satellite, uh, locations,'cause that's really what it brings. Um, you know, there's, there's got to be that trust there. They got to be the right person. Just as, as much as we, uh, put a lot of effort into selecting the right person to join our team on an hourly and a leader level, we've got to select the right person to join our team to be, you know, become part of the family and an extension of us as a franchisee Awesome. If someone is in the stage of going, growing their business, getting, you know, maybe they have a few locations and they're looking at, you know, six, seven, eight, what advice would you give to them? You know, what is something you wish someone told you going through that process, Unfortunately, most people have to learn it for themselves, myself included. And that's-- You can't do it all. Um, that is truly not scalable. You know, what got you here isn't gonna get you there. Um, you know, you probably have had a lot of success by guiding and having your hand in things and getting them just the way they want. But again, that's not duplicatable and that's not scalable. Lean heavily into selecting the right person. You know, define clearly what success looks like from a people standpoint. Um, and, you know, be incredibly selective about those that join your team because you've got to operate on trust. You've got to empower. You've got to trust. Mistakes are gonna be made along the way, but really understanding those two things, it's-- uh, the most important thing that you do is the interviewing and hiring, the people selection. Hands down, the most important thing you do. That will create all of your problems, and that will solve all of your problems. And the second one is letting go and learning to empower and understanding that you, you can't do it all. That got you here, but that's not gonna get you to 5 to 10 to 15 or more And it's a lot easier to, you know, amend a process or change something up than it is to bring, you know, new people in and have to, you know, unfortunately, you know, exit certain folks or, um, that's just so time-consuming and, you know, there's a lot that's involved with that. What are you most excited about? And then what is your favorite thing to eat or drink at Oak & Stone? I'm most excited about the fact that we have developed the team. When we opened, uh, our location, uh, in Cape Coral, Florida in December, most of the trainers that were on that team were a- by the end of it asking to come to the next opening. And the training team that we just used, uh, when we opened in McKinney, uh, in Texas were the, were the same trainers, uh, predominantly from, from the last round. We had a couple new ones join the team, but they have all, since that opening in December, many of them have stepped up and grown into key leader roles and are now looking at what the future looks like and are asking to come to the next one. And we brought, uh, we brought a couple more people into the fold intentionally planning on having to divide and conquer for these next ones. And the team has just said, "Hey coach, put me in." Like, "I wanna do it. Whatever it is, I wanna do it." Uh, and I, I think that's the most rewarding and the most exciting thing about what we've got going on at, at Oak & Stone. It's watching people develop, you know. And as I've mentioned before, it's a people business. The most rewarding part of what I do and, and the most satisfying part o- of the career that I've had has been people development. It's been, uh, identifying people and helping them reach their goals and grow on a- and become what, you know, what hopefully they thought they could become, uh, become what, uh, what I might have seen in them, but really helping them reach their goals, uh, a- and develop into, uh, in- into a great career. My favorite thing to eat at Oak & Stone. Wow. Uh, I've actually got two of them. Um, one is the voodoo chicken sandwich. It's a, it's a buffalo chicken sandwich. We build it with, uh, Zap's Voodoo potato chips, uh, piled high. It's just, it's a great twist on a buffalo chicken sandwich. Uh, and then because I'm a lover of turkey sandwiches, as you can tell, sandwich is my favorite food group, uh, we do a turkey s- we do a turkey BALT. So bacon, uh, apple, lettuce, tomato, uh, fresh shaved turkey, and smoked Gouda cheese on thick-cut brioche is, is my other favorite Awesome. Well, Sam, now I'm hungry, but thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for coming on the Pre Shift. I know you're busy, you got locations to open, so I'll let you go. DJ, it's been great. I've really enjoyed talking with you today. Thank you for the honor of joining your podcast Absolutely. Thank you. As we wrap up and I listen back to my conversation with Sam, a few major points stood out to me. First, Sam runs two labor metrics, not one. Sales per labor hour and checks per labor hour. Because when prices go up, and they have, sales per labor hour goes up with it, even if your team isn't actually doing more work. Checks per labor hour tells you what's really happening on the floor. For Oak & Stone, the window is roughly seventy dollars in sales and one point two checks per labor hour. And if you're only watching one number, you're looking with one eye closed. Second is that Sam's meeting waterfall has five steps down from him, down to area leads, to GMs, to managers, and the daily pre-shift meeting. The reason it doesn't break is that the message has to get leaner at each level. By the time it reaches your team before service, it's three things. Not seven, not a full agenda, three. If you can't name what the three things are, then your pre-shift isn't doing its job. And last, your high performers are probably getting less feedback than your low performers, which makes sense, but it's not because they don't deserve it, but because it's easy to let them keep doing their thing at a high level. Sam's advice is to just take five minutes, a cup of coffee, drink, whatever, tell them what they're doing well. Feedback is a gift, and most of us aren't giving it to the right people. And that's the show. Thanks to Sam of Oak & Stone for joining us. If you enjoyed it, please leave a review and share it with one of your friends to help the show grow. We'd love to hear what you think. Reach out to podcast at 7shifts.com. As always, I'm DJ, and this has been PreShift.