ADHD, Autism & being feral FOREVER-EVER: Meghann Birks

For the penultimate interview of Season 3, I'm ecstatic to be joined by Meghann Birks. I had the pleasure of being interviewed by Meghann on her amazing Podcast: Sisters in Stoke & she previously featured on 2 mini episodes: ADHD Unmasking Hack & People Pleasing Hack; in this episode there are many sidequests;hence the length but Meghann's pearls are too precious to cut!

'Meghann Birks is a personal and executive coach supporting people with ADHD, autism and AuDHD.She is also a movement coach and embodiment educator who uses a variety of modalities to help people make the hard stuff easier and the good stuff 'f*cking rad'.She works from a trauma informed and neuro-affirming perspective with clients all over the world to give them quick and nasty tools to deal with the challenges of being 'neurospicy' & leverage their unique skillset, especially in the area of leadership development and workplace management.She is way too much for some people (and doesn't give a toss),loves lifting heavy things,punk music hiking,the ocean and whatever her current hyperfixation is.

TW: Contains swearing and triggering topics including: an ableist remark made to highlight her previous ignorance and how damaging stereotypes are! Also mentions of eating disorders, alcohol & substance misuse, relationship struggles, family struggles, work problems, mental health crisis, self loathing, depression, anxiety, suicide

If you are in need of support YOU ARE NOT ALONE! There is immediate help out there so please REACH OUT
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You can connect with literally like-minded legends in the ADHDAF Online Peer Support Group. ENORMOUS thanks to the members for keeping this podcast going for over two years!

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ADHDAF+ Charity is dedicated to Jodi Walsham, to all of our absent friends and to our 'absent minded' friends, the Leopard Print Army.
Charity number: 1208650 - though inspired by this podcast, and whilst all things ADHDAF will fundraise for the charity, ADHDAF+ is an entirely separate entity.
Connecting & empowering ADHD adults of marginalised genders in England and Wales, with plans to extend into Scotland once we are up and running. FIND OUT MORE

In a system so broken that people in mental health crisis could be waiting the best part of a decade for life changing/life saving ADHD assesment,diagnosis and treatment;what we do have is each other.
We are all in this together!
Laura x

Transcript

 You will likely know my guest from the previous mini Tip It episodes and will therefore know the absolute treat you are in for. I connected with Megan Burke's coaching when she invited me on her podcast, Sisters in Stoke, earlier this year. I will put links in the show notes. To all of the above to have a listen.

This weird, wonderful, wise and feral woman began this interview banging a shamanic drum with a bone.  Unfortunately, the wifi was patchy. So the audio didn't come through, but the drumming would have likely only been drowned out by my cackling. Speaking of wifi, we are extremely lucky to have this audio.

There was a storm here in France. The wifi kept dropping out. Literally, it was terrifying, because Megan, as you will hear, is mic drop after mic drop, and so many pearls of wisdom, it's ridiculous. So, there were so many moments where I thought I'd lost this interview altogether, but luckily, it is all still here.

And it was just too precious to try and recreate. There is the occasional little blip where she sounds like a robot speaking underwater. But for the most part, it's crystal clear. And for the absolute gold it contains, I'm sure you can let us off. And I'm sure you will love it. and her as much as I do.

Enjoy! 

So blatantly obvious, the late discovery, diagnosis and treatment at 38 for severe combined type ADHD in 2022, not only improved, but genuinely saved my life, which I have since dedicated to fighting for change amidst the global ADHD crisis.  As the acronym suggests, I swear like a sailor and each episode will contain sensitive subject so please always read the description before diving in.

where you will also find a link to resources for support. These crucial conversations with experts by lived experience are shared to inform, validate, shame, eradicate, and unite the ADHD community with a fair few laughs along the way.  I've been labeled too much all my life, but finally, I celebrate my too muchness.

and use my justice sensitivity to let the world know that ADHD presents differently in each individual. Self diagnosis is valid, and that ADHD is not a trend. ADHD is real. And I want all ADHDers of all genders to know, you are not alone. The leopard is a symbol of Aberdeen, Scotland, where this podcast began.

It also symbolises bravery, the reclaiming of power, and I'm a total con.  So Leopard Print has become the uniform of the ADHD AF community, uniting to support each other and push for change, which together, we can make happen. We are the Leopard Print Army. Hear us roar.  Hi, I'm Laura, and I am ADHD AF. 

Name. Megan Burks. Pronouns. She, her. Star sign. Taurus. Location. The Mornington Peninsula, Australia. Occupation. Coach, and writer, and movement coach, and embodiment educator, and lots of other things.  All the things. All the things. Favourite film? Fast and the Furious.  Really? That was a really, when, when I thought about that, like, I don't, I don't watch a lot of movies because I can't sit in one spot for two hours, like that's quite physically painful.

But the Fast and the Furious, all of them, the entire franchise, is so ridiculous, and there are just so many explosions,  and stupid things happening, it is the only films I will go to a theater to pay and see on the big screen, because I just sit there like,  yeah, yeah, and it matches the pace of my brain. 

That's my brain. I love it. The fuss and the furious. Do you know what?  Actually, I laughed at you, but I feel the same way about Sharknado.  And I think, you know, Sharknado 5, oh heck, oh heck no, I think it's called, is probably the most brilliant title of a film ever. So I'm with you. I'm with you. What city in the world are you most like?

I've lived in South Korea and the like 24 seven busy pace of life, I would equate myself to that.  Wonderful. What's your favorite animal? Dolphins.  ADHD diagnosis status? Uh, I was late diagnosed in, oh gosh, how many years ago?  Eight, nine years ago? My late thirties. Did you find it easy or traumatic? I was actually really lucky here in Australia. 

At the time, the GP I had also had a specialty in psychology, so she was actually able to diagnose me, and it was a very straightforward process. However, if I wanted to go back on medication, I would have to be re diagnosed and do the entire process over again, and it's much harder now to get a diagnosis. 

Wow. So you're a raw dog in life.  Have you tried medication at all? Um, I have taken stimulant medication in the past.  And a lot of my clients ask me, Are you taking medication? What do you take? I am very, very open and honest about the fact that the only reason I can  choose to not take medication is because I have the privilege of working for myself. 

So my days, my weeks, and my months can be set up where I can get to the gym, I can lift some heavy shit, I can get outside, I can swing a kettlebell, I can take breaks, I could have a nap if I needed to,  you know, like, I have a lot of choice and freedom if I had to return to a structured lifestyle. work environment, 110%. 

I would need to go back on medication.  That's so interesting. I know that Alex Partridge from ADHD Chatter, he said the same thing, but it's funny because I'm not really getting that like the other day. I was stressing about getting a post up and he was just like, and who's going to tell you off? Your boss.

It's not filtering into my brain that the, the pressure that is created is from myself. I'm not getting it. So I always put everything else. I always put work first, even though I could do anything with my days. I don't. It's the weirdest thing. There's a reason I don't post a lot. Like, do you know what I mean?

Like, there's still lots of things that I find really hard to motivate myself to do, but I think, with everything else on my plate sometimes, a lot of that stuff just gets delegated to the not right now basket, and I've just kind of learned to be okay with some of that.  Because you are also a mum.  I am, and I homeschool one of my children, who has autism and ADHD. 

So  there's a lot, there's a lot going on.  It's a good job. You got all that energy, Megan. I  already know that this is going to be such a difficult interview because, um, even though we've actually never met and I've been completely AWOL moving house, I really class you as one of my very good friends and the friends interviews are always hard.

Cause I just want to talk to you normally and  not stick to the plan. Well, you try. profesh, Megan. Go for it.  Okay. So, Megan. Okay, yeah. No, I will. Just  hang on. Hang on. I'm just gonna  I'm just getting in the profesh zone. I don't have a profesh zone.  Who am I kidding?  What led you to suspect that you have ADHD? 

So, people had teased me about it my whole life. Like, everyone was like, oh, shiny object syndrome. And as a kid, I was super, you know, Physically active all the time. I did really well academically. Um, school was definitely my hyper focus. It was very much my safe place. Then when I was in my late 30s, my now oldest son, who just turned 15 was going through the diagnostic process and as I was filling in the Vanderbilt questionnaire for his diagnosis. 

I was reading the questions, really, for the very first time and going, Oh, people had a very narrow view of the hyperactive little boy throwing a chair through the window in school, like, very, very gendered, very specific. You know, I've had someone suggest to me in my 20s, have you thought that maybe you could have ADHD?

And I was like, no, I did well in school. Like, for me, that was, it was such a stereotype. But as I went through his questionnaire,  and it was, you know, the questions are like, never, always, sometimes, that kind of thing. I was like, always, always, always, always, always, always.  And then, once I received the diagnosis and really started to look into how it presents in girls and women,  I just had that real, like, oh shit moment of  so many pieces. 

falling into place. Yeah. And it's so common, isn't it? What you've experienced is so, so common. You hear about it all the time. People looking into diagnosis for their children and then the pennies dropping as they're, as they're  realizing that all of these traits also apply to them.  Uh huh. But having had all those people say to you, you know, shiny object syndrome, or gosh, you're full of beans, because of those gender stereotypes and your academia, you just never went, oh, that, that, it could be true until that point.

I think I was really lucky. Like, I was outside a lot as a kid. So the trouble that I have now, sitting in one place for too long or paying attention for too long, I think I was quite fortunate in a lot of environments that I was able to kind of move around. I had a lot of really great teachers throughout primary school, which is super uncommon for so many people, but I had a lot of teachers who really could kind of see this unique spark in me.

And they actually really nurtured that. And then I did dance for a long time, so I had, you know, quite a challenging physical outlet there. You know, I was in band and choir and lots and lots of different extracurricular activities. Quite inadvertently, I had managed to meet a lot of my needs. At 13 or 14 was kind of the age where it suddenly became like not cool to be out climbing trees and riding our bikes around the neighborhood.

And all of our peers wanted to like sit inside and read teen magazines and call boys, and that's when my depression really kicked off. I had always chalked that up to hormonal things, which, you know, I'm sure were a part of it. But then I also look back and kind of go, Oh, that's where a lot of that physical stuff got really kind of removed from my life by me, which is why I'm such an advocate now for women with ADHD to be moving their bodies  in a way that feels good and fun and pleasurable for them.

There were so many other things that that penny dropped for me around this, like, inherent perfectionism that I'd always had and the negative self talk and the rejection sensitivity that I just thought that's who I was. I just thought I was this, you know, sensitive little soul that couldn't cope with the big bad world.

And  once I really had the diagnosis and some understanding and then the tools and the skills eventually to start to unpack that and look at it in a different way. That's that real, you know, grief relief cycle that I still work through. And that's what I work through with my clients all the time is the like, what do I understand so much?

And then this immense sadness. For the decades of our lives, I've got clients in their seventies who are like, I'm just starting to know who I am now. And they've wasted so much time beating themselves up because they didn't understand. A hundred percent. It's funny. There's so many things, so many things I want to say.

My brain's just going all over the place. Like I think, first of all, I think it's really interesting that you mentioned that age because that was the age for me when it all started to go tits up. But I do think that that. Was hormonal, I think, because I was never very active. It was always very embarrassed about my body.

I know now, although I'm self diagnosed, self diagnosis is valid. I'm very dyspraxic. So I, I wasn't good at sports. I didn't want to be running around cause I'd fall over, um, but I think, I think for me it was, it was hormonal, but it's funny what you said about the grief relief. It's a hard relay, it's that grille just goes round and round.

Cause it's a bit like, it makes me think of the Outkast song. Is it, um, sorry Miss Jackson, is it that one where he says, Forever, forever, ever, forever, ever? It's like that, it's like you go, Oh great, I've got the answer, I know what this is. Oh fuck, forever?  There's never, and I think there is just this tiny little element of it all.

Like, if you could say to me, Would you rather know or not know?  It would be no every time because Genuinely diagnosis and treatment saved, saved my life. It really did. But there is, when I kind of look back, there's this tiny little thing that niggles me. That's like, I was so hopeful. I was hopeful that I might get over this, whatever this was.

And when you kind of go, Oh no, that that's always going to be there. But it's, it's finding a way to not hate yourself and work with it and live your best life. Quality of life, isn't it? I have clients who take the medication and they ring me the next day in tears and they're like holy shit, I had no idea that my life could feel this calm, it could feel this peaceful, which is great.

And then I have clients who try the medication and they don't notice any improvement or they have adverse side effects. That's, you know, very small in the grand scheme of things, but some of them don't tolerate stimulant medication or it affects their appetite and sleep to the extent that it's not really an option for them.

And then some people kind of have a, uh, It helps a little bit, but then there's also, you know, the years and years of habits and narratives and the kind of neural pathways that we need to retrain and rebuild that have come from our brains operating in such a way for so long and from us approaching life in such a way for so long.

And there was a great meme from Reductress at one point that said, local woman surprised to learn that disability actually makes her life difficult or something along those lines.  And it's funny because I was talking to someone the other day about internalized ableism and I was saying that I still find it really hard to classify my neurodivergency as a disability.

I  think that that's partly because right now I'm in such a great place with it, like it feels quite well managed and I'm able to help so many people and I love what I do.  But having to remind both myself and my clients and my children and like my friends that it's a chronic. Long term, ongoing condition that is going to require management forever, forever,  forever. 

Yeah, it is. It's, it's a hell of a thing. It's a hell of a thing. So since you got diagnosed, what has changed for you?  My whole life, I've understood that my capability for things is quite good.  I can learn things. I'm creative. I can do all these things. And then there's always been this big gap between that and my capacity and what I actually feel like I'm achieving in my life.

I was never able to understand why I could do quite challenging, complex things. And then very simple things like finishing my dishes, taking something to the post office. Two stories that lived in that gap where I'm stupid and I'm lazy.  My diagnosis has meant being able to go, I'm not stupid. I'm not lazy.

There are things that my brain finds tricky and I need to find a way to support it so that I don't even want to say it makes it easier because there's lots of things I still have to do that are never going to be like easy and fun, but I've just learned.  ways of kind of throwing myself into them anyway.

And so that, that's probably been the biggest change. And then also that phrase of, Oh, why can't I just, why can't I just, why can't I just now I can go, Oh, well, that's why I can't just do these things. And I need to come up with a different approach. That's actually going to work for me. Yeah. It's really interesting, this kind of capability versus capacity thing.

Like you, it's not just the complex things. It's also the volume of things. I figured out really young before I, before I knew anything about ADHD, I figured out that the more I do, the more I can do momentum and motivation follows action for me. So if I do less.  I become less and less capable. If I do more, I'm more and more capable.

And that is fine until life throws something at you. Because if you're working at maximum capacity already, and suddenly, especially for people like us, I know some of us more than others really struggle with emotional dysregulation, RSD, like you said. That if you're, if you're working at maximum capacity and suddenly you are disabled for want of a better word by emotion or, you know, whatever has happened in life, then everything drops and that's why you have to stagger it.

So it's a really hard balance to find, don't you think? I think, I think that that is immensely challenging. The boom bus cycle. So the go, go, go crash, go, go, go crash. You know, that is. a really big issue for a lot of people. And you know, when we, when we do the work around developing like pacing systems and I say, but you have to use them all the time.

If we use the analogy of being on the airplane and you've got to put your oxygen mask on first and self care and that kind of thing.  To me, when we're not monitoring our, our pace or our capacity in a, in a kind of generalized long term sense, that's like grabbing the oxygen mask when your breathing is already getting really shit.

Whereas. You have to remember to breathe the rest of the time, you know, that quote about like the time to fix the roof is while the sun is shining kind of thing, using those pacing systems and getting to know what your signs are. The huge thing here, especially as I've come into my mid to late 40s and I'm in paramedopause is that hormonally there can be massive monkey wrenches thrown into my plans all the time.

And so.  What I'm always striving for and a big piece of the work I do is, is recognizing that most of my clients really thrive with some kind of a structure and routine. So some kind of automation of their day to day, we're trying to minimize choice. We have divergent thinking, so divergent brains, neurodivergent brains are great at what if this and what if that and what we actually need to do sometimes is create systems that encourage convergent thinking where we're limiting those choices and options because it saves us brain power.

So if you wake up in the morning and go, what do I feel like having for breakfast? you're probably not going to eat breakfast.  Whereas if you wake up and say, am I having eggs or oatmeal? You've kind of already limited your choices. So I'm helping them kind of create these structures where they've got this routine, which frees up some space, it frees up some time,  but we don't want that routine so tight and so structured. 

That if they get sick, or their car gets a flat tire, or they have to go on a work trip, or their kids are sick, or there's a crisis in the family, or something happens, anything happens, life happens. that the whole thing completely unravels and falls apart.  We want to be able to kind of keep the foundations very consistent and then rebuild the rest when we can.

So  at what point in all of this did you get into coaching? Like how long had you been diagnosed? When did you know that you wanted to be a coach? Cause you clearly like the absolute business. I have actually been a certified professional coach for 16 years. Oh, is it longer than that? It's almost 20 years.

It's like 18 years. I did my life coaching course or certified professional coaching course through the International Coach Academy in like 2006 2007 because my degree is in political science and international relations. So this was like a massive departure from what I studied. Little left to fields, little left to fields.

I'm so glad I'm not involved in politics. Can I just say that was like, I'm so glad I crashed and burned and did not pursue my masters. What a mess. Yeah. First of all, everyone was like, what the hell is a life coach? Why would people pay you to help them with their life? That's ridiculous. And also like, I do think it's quite funny at 26, I was like, I'm going to help people with their lives.

Now I am not bagging young people who work in the coaching industry, but like, I thought I knew.  much. I knew nothing. I mean, I still know nothing in so many ways, but the progression into focusing on ADHD, and then more recently autism and ADHD coaching  has happened really, really organically. So my entire business essentially has been built by word of mouth.

I just attracted women and now men like me. And over time it started to become very clear. I was like, Hmm, what is the common theme here?  And the common theme is that we are all neurodivergent like that. I was like, that's the common theme. And then. You know, it's really just been for me kind of in recent years that I'd started to  attach that, that title, I guess, to my coaching business. 

And I think the timing of it  has just been so perfect because there is such a need for people who can support people in between diagnosis or before diagnosis. And I mean, like you said, self diagnosis is valid. Not everybody has the time and thousands of dollars to spend on a diagnosis  and having somebody in your corner for three to six months or maybe a little bit longer who can kind of ask you the questions about what's hard about this.

How can we make it easier and then hold you accountable to kind of trying those things. It's been so amazing for me to work with people  And like, I don't know, Laura, there's days where I wake up and I just think like, this is my job  because I so love what I do. And if I can make any impact with anybody on this planet where they too start to give themselves just even a tiny bit of that self compassion and acceptance, the effect of that and the ripple effects of that is massive. 

And then now I get to be part, like watching how this is just really kind of flowing out from my private practice into community events, collaborations, um, some upcoming things that are coming up where we really are attracting these feral women.  Like  it's just people like you and I are like, I don't want to go sit in a yurt and meditate for three days.

Like that sounds fucking boring. And if that works for you, great. Go do it.  But if you want to, like, go cold zipping and roll around in the mud and sword fight with sticks and  lift heavy weights and stuff, like, I now get to be part of, I get to be part of that community, and I get to be part of helping to actually create and build and strengthen that community, and I just,  I don't know.

I'm just so fucking lucky. Like, it's just, it just, it's so good.  It's so, so lovely to hear. It really is. And I think really it's so lovely to hear your story because it is like, it's just completely authentic, you know, it's trusting the process. One thing leads to another, you're being authentically you.

And that has brought in.  All of the people that are, that are so similar. Um, as we know, obviously ADHD or neurodivergence in all of its forms, it will present differently in every single person. But you know, it's funny that we kind of just connected.  Because we are so similar in that way. Like I'm not sporty, but I'm definitely in the feral camp. 

But do you know what they say?  You would  sword fight with me. 

So I want to go back. You said that you started coaching at 26 and you know, obviously, as we know,  uh, there's not a lot of life lived. I mean, actually I lived too much life by the age of 26, but still I knew nothing. But I do wonder, um,  I'm going to say somebody, because obviously I can't remember the resource that I found this, but I heard that on average we have a 30 percent delay and I definitely, like I joke, I'm 41, but I think the numbers are the wrong way around and I've got dyscalculia anyway.

So I probably am 14. So at 26, did you, did you. Were you a 30 percent delayed, do you think? Were you actually a kid then?  I think I'm still a kid now. I was very academically advanced for my childhood and my teen years.  And I think that that was mistaken by me and my parents and lots of people around me as maturity.

And  for me, the wheels really came off when I, cause I went straight to uni from high school and I did a four year degree. So, you know, I left school at 21.  And I did a human rights internship for almost a year in Guatemala. And then I came back and I worked at a ski resort and I did, I mean, I've had so many jobs, like so many of us. 

And then I moved over to South Korea and I was teaching there. And I think that's when I realized how emotionally stunted I probably was at that stage of my life. I felt I'm very confused by relationships. You've been in your romantic relationship for a really long time. I have. It's been almost, wait, what year is this?

2024. So it will be 18 years next year. Wow.  How's that been? How have you managed that? Well, not very well sometimes and then extraordinarily well other times. Yeah. And.  That's the longest I've done anything. 

Apart  from being alive. Apart from being alive, you know, like, that is actually the longest that I have stuck with  anything. I've been, you know, I'm quite lucky to have a partner who tries to understand  and I also think that I've gotten really good at just advocating for my own needs and taking, like, kind of just really being able to do the things that I enjoy and, you know, obviously I drag my family along with me sometimes.

It's been a bit of a process of learning to get comfortable with those times in the relationship that there is a space and distance where, to me, it's like you're kind of walking side by side and then one person goes off and has their period of growth and exploration and they come back and then somebody else goes off and does that and then sometimes you both kind of veer off the path and you need that time.

Because it's quite an intense thing for me when I go through those huge periods of peeling back the never fucking ending layers of self discovery, like, seriously, I'm so over it sometimes, like, cut me a break universe, and they're like, oh girl, we're just getting started, like, hang on, and I'm like, fuck you, you know, um, And I think at those points, when both people veer off the path, that's where the distance can feel really insurmountable.

And Touchwood, so far, we've been lucky to kind of come back. And  within our family unit as well, getting to understand so much more of ourselves. At the moment, I'm not pursuing this formally at this point, but  I'm starting to understand more about myself in, in the autistic  context, which was another one that I had a friend suggest to me.

It was a couple years ago. I was telling her about some stuff that had happened and she said, do you think you might be autistic? And that's her job. She works in autism diagnosis and I literally, I'm embarrassed about this now, but I was like, I'm funny and make eye contact, you know, like that, that was my response.

And.  She sent me some questionnaires and said, I want you to have a look at these, but I want you to fill them out as if you were a kid. And I started to look at some things around sensory issues, food preferences, confusion about certain things, really linear, black and white thinking, and And really what came out of it for me was recognizing that it wasn't that I didn't have some of those traits when I was younger.

It's that I had really learned to mask them at the moment. I'm reading the electricity of every living thing by Catherine May, which I highly recommend and she is a beautiful, incredible writer from the UK and she's talking about her understanding about her own autism spectrum diagnosis. And I'm just crying my way through it.

Because there's so many parts of that story and  it's really interesting for me because if I look at the ADHD diagnosis and the autism diagnosis, the ADHD one was like a real lightbulb moment where it was like, like, I understand so much and yes, there is a lot of grief that's come with that as well.

Whereas with the exploration,  um,  of  my more autistic  traits and characteristics and experiences.  It's still almost a lot more confusion about things that happened when I was younger that I'm like, oh, whoa, and it's a really big reframe. And that's why I'm so grateful  to be living at this point in time where. 

There's people like you doing this advocacy work and we can have these conversations. And then you look at people like Fern Brady and Ellie mids, and there's just so many incredible women basically fronting up and saying, fuck off. You don't get to tell me what my neurodivergency looks like and  to be living at a time where  women in particular, and I mean, people, but like women in particular are actually no longer willing to accept a largely misogynistic.

Culture and medical system saying, no, that's not what's happening to you or no, that's not valid.  I find that really liberating, which is why I get so frustrated with this whole, everybody's got ADHD. I'm like, like, what do you fucking care if someone does or does not, if they want to identify that way, like, how does it affect you?

Just shut up. 

There's so few things that I care about, things I care about, I really fucking care about. So like, if you're going to tell me that whatever, you, you like this thing, good for you. I don't have space to give a shit about whether somebody likes something that I don't like or agrees with something that I don't agree with because I, I probably haven't even thought about it enough to care.

So do you know what I mean? Like, why would anybody give a fuck? What's it got to do with anybody else? I just don't understand it.  I don't understand it at all. No. But I'm so interested in what you're saying. Would you be happy to educate me? Because I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,  I feel like I don't know enough about autism at all.

Like what, what are the characteristics and traits that you're recognizing in yourself?  So  the ones that have really  stood out for me  has been  Really recognizing, because I did not, like, I did not grow up in a home with disciplinary in parents, like my, my mother was a psychotherapist, my father was a minister, and it actually was pretty, pretty gentle parenting, really, like, you know, for sure, there was definitely moments. 

And they're human beings, which is like the very painful part of becoming a parent yourself is when you look at your parents and all the things you were bad about and you're like, oh, shit, they were human beings. Like, I am now screwing it all up, you know, and I get that. Um,  but I remember now, especially in my younger years,  a lot of stuff around. 

being very, very, very uncomfortable in certain clothing. So certain things being really itchy, like I couldn't wear wool and I used to actually rub, I remember like rubbing the sweater on my arms so it would create a rash. So I could be like, I'm allergic. And then my mom would let me take these wool jumpers off.

Um, my food couldn't touch, but I just had to eat it.  Um, I was terrified by loud noises.  So any, any unexpected kind of loud noise, I would just go into this kind of complete collapse, I used to cover my ears a lot, which is such a, I think this is why it's so challenging  for people who can see these parts of themselves, because Sometimes it feels like they're in opposition, because I'm quite loud and chaotic.

And then also I'm like, oh, it's going to destroy some other people, right? I know, I know, but there, I think there's an element of control in it for me. So if it's unexpected or if I'm being exposed to things that I didn't like, um,  and then really, I think,  I think on the, the,  the,  the social and emotional side of it,  And again, there's so many misconceptions around like, oh, autistic people aren't empathetic or they can't read people's expressions.

That's such absolute bullshit. It's, you know, it's like every, everything else. There's so many, and some people get struggle with that, but lots of neurotypical people struggle with that as well. And I think that,  I think I could read people's expressions, but a lot of people were lying about things all the time and I couldn't understand why they would do that. 

Um, and then I just started to remember things like when I was a kid, I used to count. patterns and I would have this pattern that I would do with my hands all the time. And if it didn't land on a certain finger, I would have to start the pattern again and try to like, make it match. And those were all things that were real self soothing.

And so I don't know, like so many people experience those things. And I think that there are, there are times when there's elements to that, that can be a nervous system regulation experience that people kind of develop those tools and skills. So I don't know what it looks like in the grand context of things. 

But I also know it's not like all these things went away, it's just that when I look at it now as a grown up, it's like, do you have food aversions? And I'm like, well, no, because I don't eat the foods I don't like. I don't eat grapes and I don't like tomatoes because I don't like the way that they feel in my mouth.

Do you struggle with tight and restrictive clothing? No, because I don't wear it. Everything I wear is oversized.  Like I've literally just removed so much of that stimulus from my life. That when I do, like, it's so rare for me to be in a position now where I'm in an environment that I find really, really challenging for me coming out of the pandemic was when I was really like, Oh, I don't like crowds, but then also I can go to like, like a punk rock show and throw myself into the mosh pit.

So this is where  it gets, it gets so tangled up in my brain. And I think the question that so many people ask is, well, why does it matter? Why do you need this label? And I'm like, I don't. I don't need a label and I don't need a diagnosis. But again,  when my clients come to me, if they haven't yet been diagnosed, And a lot of them will say, do I need to get a diagnosis?

And I will say, if you want access to stimulant medication or other kinds of medication, then yes, you have to have an official diagnosis. But I think what diagnosis does is it gives you context, like it gives you that understanding, it gives you that compassion for yourself. Often for us, it gives us understanding and compassion of our family members. 

As well, in particular, our parents, where we look at them and we're like, Oh, you know, I look at my dad and I'm like, undiagnosed autistic and my mom, I'm like, undiagnosed ADHD. Like, it's just, and I can see so much of the things that were challenging and hard for them, but it's been really quite fascinating reading books by other women who were diagnosed as ADHD later in life and seeing so much of myself in those stories. 

And listening to podcasts and things and, and much like with ADHD.  When you start to have those moments to go, Oh, I didn't know that was an ADHD thing, or I didn't know that that was, you know, and again, it's that criticism of, Oh, everything's an ADHD thing nowadays. And like, okay, fuck off. Like, again, what do you think?

If somebody is gaining information and  feedback and learning about themselves in a way that makes them feel better and more confident and happier to be on this giant floating rock spinning around in space.  Then, good for them.  You know? Yeah. Yeah.  Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. We've totally gone off piste.

I'm going to try and rein us back in. Good luck. How  you feel about this? So you are a Canadian in Australia. I'd be interested to see what you say. So the BBC reported that in some parts of the UK, We can be waiting eight years for ADHD assessment and treatment on the NHS. And if you had a magic wand, how would you sort it out?

Like, obviously we can go back and change things for the future by better education, but right now, all of the people that are waiting, which is a lot of the people listening to this podcast, how would you fix that? How would you get those people seen?  So as someone who clearly is not a medical professional, But I, I work with a lot of medical professionals and I talk to a lot of them and a lot of my friends are doctors who all have ADHD, by the way,  like, they're all like, oh, shit, me too.

I think that one thing, and you know, here in Australia, our wait times are not that bad, but they can still be significant and diagnosis can cost anywhere between 600 and 3, 000.  Um, it's a real crapshoot in terms of the support that people receive there is, you know, you have to see a GP and then you have to have a referral to either a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

They do your assessment, you get your diagnosis, but then only a psychiatrist. can prescribe the medication. Um, so, you know, there's a lot of hoops to jump through. So a lot of my clients in the last couple of years have actually gotten their diagnosis within kind of six to nine months, but then they've had to wait another six to 12 months for access to medication.

Um, so two things that,  I think I would change if I had a magic wand, and I'm sure medical professionals, if any of them listen to this, they can write me letters and DMs explaining to me why this would not work, much like when I was younger and was like, why can't we just print more money? And then people would,  I know I still, oh my God, I studied economics.

I know I might make more cash out of paper people. Anyways, we'll get the economists and the doctors are writing us nasty letters. Now, the first thing I would do is.  I would qualify in some way. I would train up more GPs to be able to do diagnosis because essentially the like they are literally reading a self reported diagnostic scale where they add up the numbers and then sometimes they're taking into account the reports from parents or partners,  which by the way, I have a real issue with Grown ass,  grown ass women having to also get other.

You just  gave the most perfect example with rubbing your jumper on your arm. Like you're masking, which, you know, you want to ask my mom what I was like as a child. I was like what I showed her. I was like, yeah. And there's a lot of, you know, a lot of my clients have had quite traumatic childhoods and suddenly they're in this position where it's like, and some of them are estranged from their parents.

Like it's very complicated. Yes. Yeah. First of all. But I mean, this goes back to like, Oh, my periods are debilitating. And you're like, Oh, I don't know if we believe you. And I'm like, would you like me to hammer a punch on your floor before you give me a fucking vaginal ultrasound? Like it's so, it's so stupid.

It makes me so Yes, please! I'm literally turning. Look how red I am turning. I look like a tomato because I'm getting like so worked up about this. So the first thing I would do is I would qualify GPs to be able to do the diagnosis. That's it. I would also qualify GPs to be able to prescribe the medication, which, because they can prescribe all kinds of medication.

So one of my friends who is a GP said to me once that one of the things she finds the most frustrating is that somebody can come into her office, they can self report  depression or anxiety, and she can on the spot. Legally, write them a prescription for anti anxiety and anti depression medication, which are super duper valid, have saved my life, so, like, I'm not bagging on those, but those medicines, as a class of medicines,  the potential side effects of them are extremely dangerous. 

Extremely dangerous for some of them, for some of them, you know, and so if you are taking an antidepressant or an anti anxiety or an anti psychotic and you have a very strong adverse reaction to those and things get very bad very quickly, you still have weeks before that will be out of your system safely if you wean off of it safely as you should under medical supervision.

For stimulant medication. And here you have to have, um, an EKG on your heart and you have to have a drug test before you prescribe, which I think it's great that they check people's hearts before they give them stimulant medication. But if you take a stimulant medication and you're like, I don't know, I'm not sleeping so well, you just don't take the next one. 

And it's out of your system within like 12 hours. And so  this whole classification  of stimulant medication for the treatment of ADHD, like the,  the equating of that  with like backyard methamphetamine labs is so ridiculous when the reality of it is, is that if more people had better, quick and fair access to treating their ADHD,  we would probably have, you know, Less backyard meth labs.

Yeah, and not to mention that the way that the system is you could score drugs on the street easier than you could get a diagnosis and if you're having to pay for it cheaper too. Absolutely. Make that make sense.  Like I mean you can go online and fill out the form and it's like, yep, you've got ADHD so I don't understand why you have to go pay five hundred and something dollars to a psychiatrist. 

to literally look at the form you filled out online and be like, yep, tallied up your score. I don't,  I don't get it.  I completely agree with you. We're going to go back to your ADHD. What is your greatest daily struggle?  Keeping my house tidy,  which  in the grand scheme of things  is one of those things that sometimes like, who cares?

But I care  because  I live in a small house With two boys and like my 15 year old son is now taller than me. So he's like man size, you know, and.  There's clutter and things are not, like, all around the house because we're all neurodivergent. There's stuff that you're like, why, why is this on this table?

And why is this here? And why is, because it's like, you know, I was carrying something and I was like, got distracted halfway. To the other room, which should be clear is like literally six feet from the room I've just left because it's like, it's not like I've gone to the West wing of the house and taken the golf buggy  not far away.

And I saw a meme actually a few weeks ago online, it was actually very life changing where this guy was like, don't put it down, put it away, don't put it down, put it away. If you have. And I've been saying that to myself, especially in Don't put it away. Because that whole like a place for everything and everything in its place, all my things go in all the places. 

Yeah, there's certain things I'm never going to get to a place where I'm like, hot dog, get to fold the laundry now. Shazam. Like I'm not, but,  but I have used tools and strategies so that I don't go, Oh my God, this is like, I will look at a basket of laundry and go, that's going to take me three hours. I don't have time.

It literally takes me five minutes. I time myself. I've had to time myself to teach myself these things. I had to do that with changing bedsheets in my head. That is such a job. It takes seconds. I will send you a photo after this and you can share it with this episode.  My husband will be like, I can't believe you did this.

The sheet on the bottom of our bed is ripped. It is torn. There is giant like vagina hole in the sheet. It has been there  for two weeks  because  I have gone to the store three times to buy new sheets  and every time I've gotten so overwhelmed by the choices and then I've looked online and then I'm like, Oh, I don't know this thread count.

I don't know if I'm gonna like,  Oh my God, I don't know what, you know, like I can't. And so I just keep like putting like I will spend half an hour in the store. And then I found the sheets I liked and I went up and the woman was like, this is the club price. Do you want to join the club today? And I was like, no.

And she's like, it's free. And I was like, no. And I just left them on the counter and walked out of the store because I was like, I can't give her my name and number right now. I don't have capacity for that today.  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's so funny. It's the amount of times I walk out of shops as well.

That's so funny. It's normally supermarkets and then I feel really bad about it. It's like, it's taken me ages to make all of these decisions. The stuff is in the basket and then there's one thing that they don't have or the queue's too long or I've actually just completely changed my mind about every decision I've just made, put the basket down, walk out.

My friends would scream.  The other week she goes, why don't you do online shopping? That's what I do. And I said, because if I do an online shop and it comes and there is one item that they did not have,  I will lose my shit because it means  all my meals. Because I was planning that meal on that day, based on how long it takes to cook, how much time I have between clients, what time I'm going to be home from CrossFit, um, how much protein is in it.

Where am I in my cycle? Like, there are a lot of factors that are going into my decision making, so that, that's, it's just, it's like,  it's the, it's the adulting stuff. I have to, like, feed and water myself every day. That actually makes me, sometimes I get really upset about that. I'm like, this is such bullshit.

I didn't, like, I've got to pay all this money and make all this effort to stay alive. Honestly, I totally hear you. I  know for me, like I've really struggled with eating disorder stuff in my life and I found it just such a, I just haven't been able to wrap my head around at points the fact that, you know, you, you can try really hard and you have a good day and what, and now I have to do it all again and again  and again and I have to keep making, yeah,  I have to keep making these decisions. 

This is really hard  and it's all on a knife edge, like any which way it's not such an inconvenience. I did not ask for any of this, you know, and then like the next morning I wake up and I go outside and I smell the air and I'm like, Oh man, I'm glad to be alive. Like it's just such a rollercoaster. So how you best support yourself with your daily adulting struggles.

is by finding the evidence, for example, like we said, how long it takes to do a thing compared to how long you think it's going to take. And you can bribe yourself that way because you're like, this is actually only going to take me three minutes. Yeah. I think like that, that's a huge one for me. And then with procrastination, which has been a really big struggle for me and I don't like, I, I do procrastivities.

So I, I won't, I don't like ever just lay around and do nothing. That's not how I procrastinate. I procrastinate by finding other side quests, right? Like, I will go on a side quest instead of doing the thing that I quote unquote should be doing.  So,  really just getting my head around the fact that when I spend hours or days or weeks thinking about it, feeling shame about it, planning to do it and then not doing it, I've actually just made quite a simple task into a very long, big task.

Task. And there, there's the tool that I use with my clients, which I just want to tell you about, because you would love it. And I think a lot of your listeners will, it's called the chair procrastination. And what you do is you pick a task. So it might be the dishes or like putting your shoes on and taking the dog for a walk, something simple that you have to do on a fairly regular basis.

And you sit in a chair  and you set a timer for three minutes. And for three minutes,  You sit in the chair and you go, Oh my God, I don't want to do this. It's too hard.  Very dramatically spit the dummy. You throw yourself around. You say all the things you're thinking in your head. When the timer goes off, you get up and you march purposefully towards the thing, but you don't start it yet.

You go back to the chair and you set the timer this time for like a minute and a half or two minutes. You go back into that state of like, Oh, so hard. So unfair. Why me? When the timer goes off, you march back towards it. And then the third time you set the timer for like 30 seconds or a minute, throw yourself into the chair, thrash around, whine, blame Trump for everything, I don't know, whatever you need to do. 

And then, I know everything.  And then when the timer goes off, you march over to the path, and without thinking about it, you do the task.  And so, That is a somatic exercise that is designed over time you practice this and it actually starts to rebuild your neural pathways in a way that reminds you,  you don't have to want to do something or feel motivated to go and do it,  which I think is a really  big struggle.

I know it's a struggle for me. It's a struggle for a lot of my clients. I think it's a struggle for a lot of neurodivergent people is that this idea of like motivation.  Is a little bit mythical in that, like, we're rarely going to feel motivated to do many of the adult tasks that are required of us. So, instead, we want to work on consistency and motivation.

So, that little kind of fun activity, and it's fun, like, you'll laugh at yourself, what you're throwing yourself about in the chair. Please, everyone, if you're listening, take photos of yourself or videos and send them to me, because I love seeing people do this activity. It is so fun,  and it just reminds you. 

It reminds you that you're actually in control of some of those choices, because I am telling you right now, when you're caught in that paralysis, it doesn't feel like you are in control of your choices.  You are.  That's so interesting. I don't know if you've seen Kevin and Perry. No. You ever seen that from the No.

So there's a, there's a character, um, by a English comedian called Kevin the teenager. And what you've described is like, that's, that's what I see's, like, oh God. Yeah. Like so unfair like that and that I'm gonna rename the chair for my own, for my own, uh, humor. To amuse myself, I'm going to call it the Kevin, the teenager chair.

Yes, please. And I need to see a video. Right.  You talked earlier about that sort of brief relief backwards and forwards, and we know that receiving a diagnosis later in life. Like ADHD or autism, has been likened to Elizabeth Kubler Ross grief cycle, except that's not really a cycle, is it? It's just this everyday, changing, shifting, rollercoaster thing.

Where are you today, if you could pick a stage right now? Today I'm in acceptance.  And have you been there a while? Have you stayed there? Or have you gone out? No, I go in and out sometimes multiple times a day. Um, but generally speaking, acceptance and even like celebration  is where I am most of the time. 

I think  denial pops up like now and then like, you know, I'm like, Am I really ADHD? Do I really have this thing? You know,  I know, but we, like, I think we all do that sometimes. We're just like, like, maybe I am just lazy and stupid. Maybe I'm just a lazy, stupid person. And then I'm like, that's not, that's not a true story.

I think when I get really sad is when I think about like little Megan, I think I was in my own little, very fast paced world as a child a lot, because I just was so on the go that  even when I play with the neighborhood kids after a while, they'd be like, we just want to rest for a bit. And I'd be like, no.

And I would just kind of go off by myself. Um,  It's like teenage, teenager Megan is the one that I actually feel  like I just want to go and hold her and hug her  and  tell her she's not a bad person and that her value in this life is not tied up  in what she achieves or how easily she achieves it.  And that she doesn't need to, you know,  break herself  to always do more, more, more, more, more, more, more  in this moment, having this conversation with this amazing woman who I've connected to because we have ADHD.

Yeah, for sure. I'm in like, woohoo, this is awesome.  But all those people that are like, Oh my God, it's your superpower. I'm like, it's actually really fucking hard so much of the time.  That's,  I think that can be a bit of toxic positivity sometimes to kind of whitewash it that way,  but I also don't want to diminish some of the really amazing gifts. 

That can come from understanding your brain and your diagnosis and stuff. So, yeah. A hundred percent. I like how you phrase that  because I've always said I'm not sure I want to give those to ADHD. I think those positives are mine. They're inherently mine, ours. Your soul, your purpose, your being, your, whatever you wanna call it.

Get your drum out and bang it with your bone. The shamanic drum of, of soul, you know? Um,  but it is, it's like you said, it's it, the gifts of working with your brain of like acknowledging who you are and, and not being yourself up, but like. You mentioned earlier about internalized ableism. Yeah. And I, I can still really recognize mine, but I always recognize it just a minute or so too late.

Yes. At least for me, it's the emotional side. So when things go awry, as they often do, And they're not always my fault, but I always think they are. I always think they are for quite a long time. And when I'm steeped in shame and sadness about that, and, oh my God, why can't I be somebody else? And why does it have to be this way?

And, uh, here we are again. Uh, all of that stuff. Like I have the compassion to go, well, that's why I've just dropped the bottle of water on the floor. And there's chaos everywhere. I have that compassion, the compassion for the emotional side of it, which is actually, for me, the most debilitating part, I'm not quite there yet.

I try, I'm trying, but I know I've got a way to go with that. Yeah.  And you, you know, you'll get there and then you'll fall backwards and then you'll come back to  before. And then like, but like, I don't, I don't want to say dangers, but one of the downsides to the diagnosis is when people are like, Oh, I have ADHD and they like read all the books and listen to the podcast and they start to understand all these things.

And they are able sometimes for the first time in their life to really implement systems and strategies and tools that really work for them and things get better.  But you're human,  and like, things are not gonna stay great all the time, and they're not gonna stay shitty all the time. Like, whatever you're feeling right now, you're gonna feel differently in approximately 91 seconds, because that's about as long as we experience a steady emotional state.

And as I say to my clients, you might feel worse. Like, I'm not guaranteeing you that you're gonna feel better. But you're going to feel differently. And I think that  because we so often experience the world in those extremes and that kind of black and white, when I'm having a really good time, I just want to cling desperately to it.

And then when I'm having a bad time, I just want to run away from it as fast as I can.  And so kind of learning to kind of like slow and steady pace myself through all of it has been. It's extremely hard to do, and I feel like it's something that I only nail for these like brief fleeting moments, and I'm like, ah, I've done it, and then the universe peels back another layer, and I'm like, ugh, I have, as my nephew says, I have not done the thing.

So, you know,  like, I did not do it.  Yeah, it's, it, it is. It's a lot. It's a lot. It's a lot.  We're going to be here all day, but I'll, I'll try and wrap it up quite soon. What has undiagnosed ADHD  cost you? Oh my gosh. And again, I hate saying undiagnosed, unidentified ADHD cost you. So much money.  So, no, like, actually, so much money  from choices, um,  well, things that I thought would make me feel better or like moving around the world,  um, pulling a geographic, switching locations.

Even like up until fairly recently, even after my diagnosis, like buying the new planner or the new app or the new online program, like all those things that I was like, Oh, this will fix me and make everything in my life so much easier. So money, it costs me  my health for sure at different points when I really struggled with binge eating disorder.

So I've been I've done a lot of excessive exercise or not been exercising at all  extremities with drug and alcohol misuse of substance. It's definitely cost me some relationships.  It cost me my confidence and self belief for a long time, like, even, even though outwardly I looked like I was doing so well and killing it and achieving and ticking the boxes, I never, I just never felt good enough.

So it's just that, like, that big, gnawing, empty hole inside of you. That's like, no, you have to be more and do more. Just that's such a shitty, shitty way to live.  And  do you not live that way now? No. Has it gone the whole? Uh, most of the time. I mean, that's another one that like every so often it pops up.

And it's really funny because when it does pop up, often very connected to my menstrual cycle. So if you are not tracking your menstrual cycle, please start doing that and seeing if your symptoms align at all with your cycle, because there's a really great chance they do. Um, I don't know. Sometimes I have to outsource my trust in myself and actually just rely on the people who are in my life, all of whom I consider to be incredible, amazing,  honest people, and they're like, you're cool, we love you.

And I just have to be like, okay, I'm gonna take their word for it.  Because I think  that concept of self love and self acceptance,  is really hard. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So if you were speaking directly to the listeners, what would you like them to know about ADHD? Start getting clear on your stories. What are the thoughts that run on loop in your head?

I'm this, I'm that, I'm this, I'm that. All of those are stories and some of the stories may be true, but just starting to unpack that even a little bit, because what happens is if you can find one story that you've told yourself, like I'm unlovable, let's say, and then you find someone who loves you, whether it's a friend or a partner or your dog, you've got proof, you have evidence that you are not unlovable.

And all of a sudden we go, okay, that was a story. What else is a story? I mean, everything we tell ourselves is a story in some context or not. There's a lot of power in pulling those apart. A hundred percent. Such wise words. People with ADHD may have lower levels of dopamine, the chemical that obviously plays an important role in reward and motivation.

So increasing dopamine levels may help with some of our symptoms. Now I know that you are very active. I know that you like. Lifting weights and, you know, going to CrossFit and all of that stuff. So obviously that will be one of your major dopamine boosters. But I want to ask you really as a coach, and I'm asking you for, for me,  asking for a friend.

Are there times when you don't feel motivated to move? And if you do, then how do you do it? Is it, is it Kevin the teenager or, or do you get somebody to kick you up the ass? Like, how do you do it? I fucking hate going to CrossFit. CrossFit is hard.  So I joke all the time down at the box that the Venn diagram of people with ADHD and crossfitters is a circle because it's like really intense but I have to work hard for my endorphins and my dopamine.

I don't, if I go for a walk with my dog I'm like, you know, my dog's happy but like I don't come back and go, oh I feel so great from my little walk around the block. No, I have to quite physically challenge myself. So It is Kevin the teenager, very much so. Here comes the hate mail,  because My top things for increasing dopamine and increasing your access to dopamine would be moving on a daily basis.

Now it does not have to be CrossFit. There is a lot of evidence that suggests that lifting heavy weights and challenging yourself increases dopamine production more than more moderate exercise, but that is not for everyone and it really doesn't fucking matter. The best exercise is one that you will do.

Cold water exposure is a big one for me. Again, that's not for everyone.  eating protein and avoiding alcohol. So they're all very boring, stupid.  I know it's shit. Fuck off Megan. I know it's shit.  And I'm sorry to tell all of you that those things work and the protein one, the protein one, especially if you're in your forties and you're potentially in perimenopause or you know that you are.

Getting enough protein, which is probably double the recommended dosage, that helps us access our dopamine, it can help create dopamine, and especially if you were in the process of kind of getting to learn your brain and trying to build new habits, what we actually need to build those new neural pathways is amino acids, and we get those from protein.

So the protein is actually a really key part of  learning to rewire your brain in a way that some things might become easier for you. The vast majority of things on my  almost daily non negotiables are things that if I'm sitting here thinking about them, I'm like, ugh.  I don't want to do them.  I mean, I really, honestly, I really, really, really wish I had a different answer for y'all, but it is really those like boring, consistent daily things  that Right.

Moving on.  Sorry, she's like, this interview is over. I am tracking or trying to track my glimmers. I sometimes don't manage it daily, but I manage it weekly. So being mindful of the micro joys. Could you give me a micro joy of today or one that stands out lately? The flowers are blooming. It's still very cold, but it's springtime here in Australia and there's so many different flowers.

And I walk up and down the road and I stick my face. In the bushes, and I smell all the flowers. I've sent numerous texts in the last couple weeks to girlfriends of mine and be like, Bitch, go stick your face in a bush outside your house. It smells so good today. And then they all, but they all do it. Like, this is my point.

These are my friends. This is my community. These are the women around me. They're all like, Oh, like they could be working. And they're like, I don't know. Megan says I gotta go smell the bushes. And they'll go and they'll do it.  Because life is better when you stop and smell the bushes. I know that's not the expression, but that, that is like,  I'm very excited to ask you this.

What song best describes your ADHD? Hold On by Wilson Phillips. Such a tune.  And From Bridesmaids, which is probably my favorite film.  I had experience very similar to that in Mexico when traveling with a group of girlfriends. And I'll tell you about that off air because I don't want to make anyone feel ill.

But that, that song is just, I mean, it's such a banger, first of all. It is. I wonder how many listeners listening to this are like, who's Wilson Phillips? Like people that will never No, none of them. I've seen the demographic.  That song to me is very like,  Like, really, it's like, you're creating so much of your own pain, like, I know there's pain, like, why are you doing this to yourself?

Like, hold on, and it just It's a magic song, and what a message to put out in the world. We salute you, Wilson Phillips. Yeah, we do. I didn't read your questions. I think I read the first three, and then I got distracted by something, so There's too many questions!  Honestly!  That was That's like off the top of my head, gut and soul.

Oh, I love it. That is brilliant. It's even better that you didn't prepare. No, I know. It is. It is. Do you know, it's so funny because when I go on podcasts and people send me six questions, I'm like, okay Laura, you've definitely done too much here. You're on brand at least. Don't change. We're going to  ask about 50 questions and have 75 side quests throughout.

Tell me, what is the most ADHD thing you've done this week? Other than my ripped bedsheet. A few days ago, someone said to me, Oh, hey, how's your podcast going? And I went, Oh my God,  I have a podcast. I had totally forgotten. That's 

actually happened, my Jewel, that's so funny.  Just put an episode out this week, because I actually had like two or three recorded episodes that I'd recorded. And then I had to go to Canada in May, and then I came back and I had a couple weeks of being like, my plate was really full, so anything that was not essential, I was like, no, I can't do it.

And what's really funny is that up until a few weeks ago, I was in this like, shame cycle about the podcast, from like, oh, I've got to put this episode, I've got to put this episode up. Like,  I've got a couple hundred followers on Spotify, so it's not like I have sponsors who are like, oh, where's your podcast?

Like, it's not,  nobody cares if I put my podcast out. I shouldn't say that. Like my friend who asked about my podcast the other day was like,  I've had these moments where I've had these like feelings of shame, like, oh, another project you started and then gave up on. And, but when my friend asked me the other day, I literally was like, oh shit, I have a podcast. 

And then I, like it's been so long that I had to relearn like Spotify and Riverside and all the crap that I have to use and it took me so long to do everything. But it's out there and it's with a woman who is literally like a real life mermaid and it's awesome so everybody should go listen. Everybody should listen.

Everybody should listen to my episode with you. It's amazing. I've had, I've had really,  what blew my mind was when I went into Spotify and looked at the guests I had in season one. It's amazing.  It is insane. Like the women that have been on my podcasts are incredible and it's called Sisters in Stoke and it's not just women who live in Stoke,  which is what, which is don't know if that's a problem. 

Like, so that object permanence out of sight, out of mind, like that very, it did not, it no longer existed to me.  Do you know, it's quite funny as well though, because what you've kind of made me think about, sometimes when I get really upset about things, well, every fucking day, um, I, I think to myself, there was a time when this didn't matter. 

There was a time when I didn't, when I didn't know these people and, and I, and I didn't, or I didn't put value in this thing. And I think that that's really funny because you've just expressed the shame that you were in for not putting it out. And then next thing you know, you forgot it even fucking existed. 

Love it. Can I come back on, please? Because I love it. Absolutely.  Of course you can. Always.  Right. Is there anything that we haven't covered? Is there anything that you would like to add or say? Now is the time. 

I'm gonna say this to the listeners. Maybe the problem is not that you are too much, maybe the people around you are not enough. The reason I even hesitate to say that is because that whole term of not enough, like, we all know the shame of being called that, and so I don't, it's not that I want you to leverage that against other people, but what I mean is, being neurodivergent can be a very isolating, incredibly lonely experience, but I promise you,  That there are people out there who will understand and who will see you and accept you and love you for who you are, but you have to do the very, very scary, brave thing of showing yourself who you are, and then showing other people who you are, because that is the only way that you can attract these other people.

feral wild women into your life is by going out there and being the feral wild person that you are. And if you're not, if you're like, but I want to sit at home and knit, I'm like, that's fine. And if you want to do that on your own, that's fine too.  What I'm saying is we bang on and on and on about authenticity without talking about the process of that and finding a support system, whether it's a coach or a mentor or a therapist or a friend or, you know, someone who can kind of be there with you through that is such an important piece of it, but it's also okay to admit to yourself that, you know, You have outgrown the people around you, especially post diagnosis, especially when you come to really embrace who you are and what it is you want out of this experience here on earth, and to look at the people that have kind of just default been part of your life and be like, you know what,  I think I need to move on from some of this and go and find the people who can keep up with you, who can match that pace. 

Who can bang your, even if that is knitting. Yes, exactly. And that it's not about too much and not enough. It's like if, if you are too much for somebody, that could mean you are too much, uh, or you're too quiet. It doesn't have to mean you are too much, in my sense of the word, too much. In our sense, the word too much, and the not enough is not enough for you, for your authentic self, for you to live happily in, in, you know.

In that company. That's wonderful. You're wonderful. You're wonderful. The song's going to be stuck  in my head for days.  Honestly, 

the bits that have come out of this conversation, I have, were painful to extract, but I've, I've managed to keep it as close to an hour as I possibly could. So I'm going to try and speak very quickly and not ramble. She says, I just absolutely love her ethos, which is. Let's fuck around and find out.  God love her.

So thank you very much to Megan. You can follow her at Megan Burks coaching and I'll put a link in the show notes. So interspersed with the usual weekly episodes at the moment, I have been doing these mini episodes from the community for ADHD awareness month. The next full length interview is the final one of this season before I press pause on weekly releases to focus on the charity and actually having a life.

So for the last installment of what has been a hell of a chapter, I'm swapping roles and will be interviewed by a very special guest. I look forward to sharing it with you. That's a complete lion brick in it, but yeah, I do have a fair bit to reflect on and share. So that's coming soon. Yeah. In the meantime, if you would like to find out more about the Chazza ADHD AF Plus charity is in existence.

Our aim is to connect and empower ADHD adults of marginalised genders in England and Wales and we plan to extend into Scotland once fully up and running. Though this podcast inspired the charity, And all things ADHD AF will fundraise for the charity. ADHD AF plus is an entirely separate entity. You can find out more about the charity at ADHD AF plus as in the word plus.

org. uk. And you can follow along on socials. Insta is ADHD AF plus.  I'll put links in the show notes for that as well, where you will also find a link to join the ADHD AF peer support community and a link to free and immediate support. If you've not already, please have a listen to the ADHD Awareness Month special episodes.

They range between five and I think 12 minutes is the longest one. And please share them to help amplify the voices of those who have gone unheard and to help raise crucial ADHD awareness.  Finally, on Friday the 25th of October, it is the 3rd annual ADHD AF Day. In which we turn the world leopard print to raise ADHD awareness.

I would absolutely love you if you could get on board with that. All you have to do is wear at least one leopard print item. though multiple are preferable, on that day and take a selfie or video of yourself explaining or in the wording the key piece of awareness you would like raised. What message would you like the world to know about ADHD?

Then just tag at ADHD AF podcast, hashtag ADHD AF day and I will share them and we will turn the world leopard print once more. Thanks again to the wonderful Megan. And I just have to say. She told me her story of her girly trip to Mexico and it is even more hilarious  than the scene in Bridesmaids. All I'm going to say is it involves a plant pot and somebody regretfully looking into Megan's eyes in a very compromising position while saying, I'm sorry.