Why Friendship Is Still the Best Way to Share Jesus

Find Your Place To Belong At First Pres: https://firstprescos.org/belong

Watch More Episodes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnLY-c1KPtO7a_Zw4LIVb

Have you ever wanted to tell someone about Jesus—but worried you’d make things awkward?
You’re not alone.

In this episode of the Light + Life Podcast, Tim and Ella unpack one of the biggest misconceptions about evangelism. Instead of pressure, performance, or having all the right answers, they explore a much simpler—and more biblical—approach: friendship.

You’ll discover why hospitality changes lives, why your story matters more than you think, and how God often works through ordinary conversations rather than extraordinary moments.

In this episode you’ll learn:
* Why evangelism starts with genuine friendship
* How hospitality can open hearts to Jesus
* Why fear keeps so many Christians silent
* The difference between following guilt and following Jesus
* One practical step you can take this week to begin sharing your faith naturally

Whether you’ve struggled with evangelism for years or you’re simply wondering how to talk about your faith without sounding pushy, this conversation offers practical encouragement and hope.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction
03:15 Why evangelism feels so intimidating
10:22 The dinner invitation that changed an entire family
23:40 Friendship before persuasion
37:12 Why actions often speak louder than words
50:08 Following Jesus instead of guilt

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Step one of being an evangelist, of being willing to share the gospel, is to follow the pull of Jesus, not the push of community Christian guilt.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Okay, guys. Well, welcome to the Light in Life podcast. I'm Ella. I am filling in for Liza. Liza is a dear friend of mine, actually, but with summer schedules and everything like that, I get to talk to Tim today, which is super exciting.

SPEAKER_05 0:28

Podcast host, Ella. Way to go. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Thank you. Yeah, I am the marketing manager here at FirstPres, actually. So I get to hang out with Tim and Ryan, who's behind the camera all day, every day, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_05 0:41

Yeah. You do a great job.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 0:44

Sharing the story. I think our church has uh branding challenges. Have you ever felt that way?

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Oh, for sure. Story of my life, Tim.

SPEAKER_05 0:54

Story of my life.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 0:56

It's pretty regular that I get into conversations with people like, do you think the name of our church tells our story very well? Because First Presbyterian Church of Colorado Springs, I mean, that's a ringing name. It's real catchy. But a lot of people would associate, like just hear that and would think, what am I talking? What are you talking about? Like what there's and probably if you have an association with a church called First Presbyterian Church, like if you knew one at all, uh it probably was not a good association. So we're always kind of like, oh, is it the first Presbyterian church in Colorado Springs? That well, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

There you go.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

At least we have that. At least we have to we didn't like kick another one over and be like, no, no, you're not we're first Christian.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

Yes, so sorry. Y'all are second.

SPEAKER_05 1:41

It wasn't it wasn't about like chronology, it was quality.

unknown 1:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

That's what we just tell them, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:49

Your your ranking has been diminished.

unknown 1:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:53

No. So you do a great job because what has to happen is people have to find the story of what's really going on inside with the people. Right. Church is the people and the stories and what God's doing and the way that you do that, so that people can follow our social media, click on things, and be like, oh my gosh, this is about, you know, fathers with their kids like I am, and about families trying to make it, and and about people getting closer to Jesus and the power of worship that we have going here. And so thank you for everything you do.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Come on. Thanks. Let's do it. Let's do it. So today, do you know what we're talking about?

SPEAKER_05 2:29

I hear we're talking about evangelism.

unknown 2:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

The big scary E-word, y'all.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

Woo!

SPEAKER_00 2:34

It's gonna be awesome. Which I'm so glad that we're talking about this, actually, because it's something that I feel like is so near and dear to my heart. Like I feel recently, I think I've just been pretty convicted of what it looks like to share the gospel with others. And um, I think for me, when I look back about how I do it, I think I can really get caught in just the basic routine of, you know, going to church, going to Bible study. I listened to a sermon on the way, you know, to work today. That's great. And um forget what the whole purpose is. And I was reading, um, I was really curious about Jesus' last couple days here. Um and, you know, he wasn't here for very long at all. Like when he returned um from the dead. He was just here for a little bit and he was talking to his disciples. And I was curious about like what he what that time looked like.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

And, you know, his final commission was go make disciples. Right. You know, go baptize people, you know, tell people about this. And it's a little shocking to me because I think that like, I don't know, if it was my friends and I had just got crucified, I'd be like, okay, guys, you know, it's a little sketchy out there.

SPEAKER_05 3:50

It's been a little rough, let's take a break.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Like maybe go hide, go take a beach vacation. That's right.

SPEAKER_05 3:55

It's just been a rough season. Let's get some us time.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Exactly. But he's like that way.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

I mean, uh 40 40 days is the time, I I believe, and that the Bible talks about. And so you imagine, like, what was this time like? Probably some of it was like, hey, let's go fishing, let's let's let's chill out today. Let's get some summertime.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

That makes me feel better. Because I was like, dang, he was right to the point.

SPEAKER_05 4:19

But I imagine a lot of it was just, hey, do you understand what just happened? Do you understand what we've been through? Do you understand the scriptures now, what they mean? Are you ready to explain this? And then, yeah, I think that final commissioning was probably not just um, so here's the here's the big surprise, the big reveal. Uh, actually, what I want you to do is go and make disciples of all nations. I think that was the culmination of him preparing them and training them and getting them ready in a way of of this is who you're gonna be in the world. Um like like when he called uh Peter and he he called the first disciples and he said, Uh, you've been fishermen. I'm gonna make you fishers of men. Right. Like, oh my head's I'm scratching my head already. Like, what what do you mean? Like, do I bring my net?

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Um, let me go get my pole, it's Barbie.

SPEAKER_05 5:15

My Barbie pole. Did you have a Barbie pole?

SPEAKER_00 5:19

I did. I loved it. Good memories? Caught a lot of fish on that.

SPEAKER_05 5:22

Caught a lot of fish? A lot of fish. Nice, nice. I never had one.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Really?

SPEAKER_05 5:26

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Not even like a Spider-Man one?

SPEAKER_05 5:28

Yes. So I believe, I believe it was my son Peter, had a Spider-Man pole. Might have been Jack. And uh yeah, Spider-Man's exactly it, actually.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

Yeah, it's a rite of passage.

unknown 5:38

Really it.

SPEAKER_05 5:38

Little click button.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 5:40

It worked for a good solid month and a half.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Until like one little fish pulls that whole reel back into the water.

SPEAKER_05 5:47

And then you're just like, I think I can untangle this, or I can get another one for $10.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:54

Yeah, evangelism.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Yeah. I um it's been interesting trying to think about this. Um have you ever heard, have I ever told you how my family came to Christ?

SPEAKER_05 6:08

Um, tell me.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah. It's so a little bit of a backstory. My family was super, my parents were super young when they had my older brother and I, like babies. My they were kids raising kids.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

And so when my dad finished law school, they moved us out to Dallas. And if y'all are from Texas, y'all kind of know that, you know, Dallas is a little different from most of Texas. It's pretty like hoity-toity, it's, you know, pretty bougie. And um I think that my parents ran into a lot of roadblocks with community, and especially when it came to like thinking about anything with the church, they weren't Christians at the time. Um, but when they would step into a church, I think that they were met with a lot of judgment versus love and acceptance. And um one day my mom, we were at my brother's swim practice, and another mom came up to her, and her name's Julie Kokorian, um, this lady, and she came up to my mom and was like, I would love to have your family over for dinner. And so my parents at the time, they were like, that's kind of weird, we don't know you, I'm okay. And then over time, they just kept running into Julie um in the grocery store, at the park, everywhere. And so um the Kakorians ended up taking my family out to dinner every year for every or every year, every um every week for like a year.

SPEAKER_04 7:34

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

And they never mentioned church, they never mentioned their, you know, beliefs or anything like that. And my parents were really poor at the time, so they'd be taking us out to, you know, Tex Mechs and buying us dinner and really invested in our family really well until Easter came around and they were like, hey, like what are your plans for Easter? And my parents were like, nothing, you know, and they're like, you should come to church with us. And from that moment on, my parents started going to church every day after that Easter service.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

And um I was talking to my parents about it the other day because I was just curious about their testimony because their testimony is so powerful, and I think it's made such an impact on me, and it's really shaped the way that I view sharing the gospel with others. Yeah. And how the Kakorians did it, they did it so gently, and they built so much trust and relationship and loved my parents and you know, their hospitality was so radical to the point where my parents are like, something's different about this family and come out to find later that this family's really involved in young life. And so if you guys don't know what young life is, but they really go from this idea that you have to earn the right to be heard.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

And so um I think that when I think about evangelism, I really think about how my parents came to Christ and how that one family changed my life. Well, you know, one day if I have kids, it'll change my kids' lives, it'll change my grandkids' lives. That one impact of them having us over for dinner every week.

SPEAKER_03 9:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

Um I mean, just talk about butterfly effect. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 9:20

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, that's got promotes a lot of questions in my mind because it's such a great story. And you did share with that with me before.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:29

And um, I just love the persistence, the investment, the hospitality. Um and just that they found this way of sharing their faith. And that's what so you said we started out with saying, okay, this is about evangelism, big scary word. Right. And it's interesting that it is a big scary word. It's just, you know, we if we've come to know Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord, we recognize that we need to share that with others. Like a big part of what it means to be a follower of Jesus is to be willing to share what he's done with others. And you always have a hope that you'll be part of somebody else's coming to know the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Right.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

But it kind of it's interesting how it pivots from I think when you first meet Jesus, you're so excited, you're just like, come, it's like if you've seen a good movie or something. You're just like, Have you seen this yet? Do you do you know about this? This is awesome. This is awesome. Come on. And pretty pretty quickly, I think, we're I don't know how long that season lasts for everybody or for our listeners, but there's a turn where it's like, oh. Now I've had uh a heart experience, or I've had some nose, or I've had um I've come with some all this excitement and just like hit up against a an ice block of that's not exciting, that's really stupid. And and so now it's like, well, I don't want to do that again. I don't but I but I think I have to. Now I think I have uh an an onus that if I'm gonna be a good Christian, I have to go do this, and and now I feel like I don't know how.

SPEAKER_04 10:57

Right.

SPEAKER_05 10:58

And so how do I um how do we help people to figure out this is your way of sharing the gospel? And I think my my big bottom line is um to sh it really is when people ask me what's the best method of evangelism, I still say friendship. Like, what do you like? Evangelism explosion, do you like Alpha? Do you like the four spiritual laws? Do you like uh young life, you know, strategies? Yeah, yeah, I like all of those.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Right.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

But if you ask me like what's the best way uh to share the gospel, I want to start talking about friendship. And that's what uh the Kakorians did with your parents. Yes. And with you.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

And it's so funny because I think that um I don't know if you've ever run into this problem, but like a couple months ago, me and my husband were at this pottery class, and it's six weeks long, and we were getting to know this lady that was next to us, and sh, you know, finally the big question that she asked, she was like, Okay, what do you do? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

And we're gonna return.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah. And so my husband has an amazing answer to this. You know, he's a baker, everybody's so excited. You're a baker that's not like a like they're like, that's amazing, and they're so excited to learn about it.

SPEAKER_05 12:13

Like nobody nobody returns, like, oh, I hate bread.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Yes, exactly. And if they do, then that's a problem.

SPEAKER_05 12:19

Why would you make bread? That's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

And so then, like, when she looked at me and was like, okay, what do you do, Ella? And I was like, No, do I say the do I say the C word? Like, yeah, uh work for a church, okay. Bye. I'm gonna leave. And it was so interesting because I'm always like, I have this weird fear about sharing that I work for a church. And sometimes I'll like even say, like, I go through this weird thing in my head where I'm like, should I just tell them that I'm an accountant? Because you know, nobody really asks any questions if you're an accountant. And so um I'm marketing if you're not gonna be a good thing. I'm marketing, and I do say that sometimes actually. Um, but right when I said that, her face dropped and she didn't talk to me ever again. And I was like, oh no, I promise I'm really cool. Like I'm a cool Christian, I promise.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

And then I'm like, what does that even mean? You know? And so I think I'm like constantly um afraid. I think that's the right word. That if I say that I'm a Christian or if I try to, you know, share the gospel with somebody, that I am going to lose that friendship.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

And so um I like find myself saying things like, Oh, I'm a cool Christian, you know, and I think that like a lot of times Christianity is portrayed pretty terribly in Hollywood or in the media, like you see the extreme like things that I think Jesus would be pretty disappointed about. Yeah. And so it's um I'm so scared that I'm gonna be associated with that. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 13:54

Or some man, I watched on a recommendation, like a Netflix series, and it just was so bad. It was actually you you might be able to figure out which one I'm talking about. It was based in Texas, and it was like, oh, this is awful. So it's but it's Christian things. It's like some of some things that Christians have done, right? But like now taken and blown up and magnified through a Hollywood lens of the worst possible stuff, and um and it just is so icky. And um, so you know that in some people's minds, that's what they're thinking of when you say Yeah, that's what I do. I work for a church, because I just really think that's awesome to, you know, be horrible to people and destroy their lives. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

And it's so funny because I like, you know, I'm from if y'all can't tell, I'm from the deep south. And so it is like churches on every single corner. There's people coming up to you in the Krogers asking, like, if you died today, you know, are you going to heaven or hell?

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Really?

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yes. You've had that experience? I've had that experience. And you know, the people who do that, they're bold. And you know, it might work. I'm not here to say if it doesn't work, but I feel like from my experience and from what the Korkorians, it's so much better to create that relationship. I would much rather have somebody and be like, hey, like what's your story, and then continue that relationship before bringing up.

SPEAKER_05 15:16

Do you think your parents ever felt like they were the target of the Corkorians or a project of the Corkorians?

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Aaron Powell Um Not until many years later. So um they in a in a best way in the best way, not in a negative way.

SPEAKER_05 15:33

Positive way. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

So Julie eventually told my parents that that day she had never really heard the Lord speak to her, but she saw my mom and heard the Lord be like, you need to go get to know that that mom. And so um, but when they were like throughout the friendship, I think that you know, in that sense, they felt that um super I'm losing my words. What am I trying to say? Whoops.

SPEAKER_05 16:01

Um like put upon, like they were or that they were grateful for that.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

I think that they were like, oh man, the Lord is so good.

SPEAKER_05 16:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

And so I think that it was Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:12

So it didn't feel by the time they learned that, oh yeah, I was trying to uh we I definitely were trying to introduce you to Jesus the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yes, no, and so I think that um they were genuinely invested in my parents and getting to know them for who they are. And um Yeah, and so I think you know, the way that they loved, my dad says the way that Scott loved Julie, his wife, changed the way he viewed marriage, the way that he loved his kids. Um I mean it was a radical change. And it was so easy. It was it felt it didn't feel forced or anything like that.

SPEAKER_05 16:49

Right. And so Yeah, I think we're in an era, I think we're the the church moves through different eras, different seasons, and what community context you're in, what cultural context you're in, there are different methods of sharing the gospel. And I don't think there's anything wrong with learning a method because learning learning how to walk someone through the Roman road or to walk someone through the story of Jesus in a way that makes sense, that's understandable, to give yourself that confidence, I think just helps when you are in that moment of, oh wow, the door has opened. This person has just asked, like, um, how do you you know, how do you keep your life on balance when you're going through so many difficult things? Or um, how do you how do you how does your marriage survive uh 30 years through ups and downs and challenges and and all the sort of things like, oh, this isn't this is a window. I'm either gonna say, Well, you know, we just we figured it out, or I'm gonna say, Look, there's a God in heaven, we just we would not be alive today if and and together if I didn't know that God was was was there and and loved us and was able to carry us through hard times. So when those windows open, if you don't have the confidence of some kind of methodology, training, practice, you're probably gonna shy back, you're probably gonna fall back from that moment. And um but all the same, you know, the we're in a season where behavior is speaking louder than words. So we're in a season where, like your parents say, the way he loved his wife, that spoke to me. Now he never probably turned to your dad and said, like, let me tell you the way I love my wife. Right. Yeah and let me tell you the biblical foundations for why that is, and let me open up chapter and verse. But the the testimony was the the behavior, and it's not a direct, like, go to church behavior, it's the way you love your wife, or the way you're faithful to uh your work when it's difficult, or the way that you're faithful to friendship, right? Uh the way you open your house to have us over, and you're generous beyond generosity that I see anywhere else. Like those behaviors and then it's not like your they knew that having your parents over was an act of love.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 19:09

But they but most of what your parents picked up on and caught was not intentional. Like they were like, when they come over, let's act like we really love each other. Right. It was just caught stuff. Yeah. Which is so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

It's so yeah, it's so amazing. And I know, you know, Paul says this, you know, they'll know us by the way we love others and each other. Yeah. And I think that's really good to remember when you're sharing the gospel. Yeah. And um yeah, I think that Christians, I mean, we live our life so radically different, right, from cultural norms. Right. It's so different to invite a random, you know, young mom over for dinner every single week for a year. Like that's you know it's extraordinary. It's extraordinary. And it's so um it defies any of our normal cultural norms. And so it's um in the best ways, right? And so I think that when we loved like Jesus, and you know, that's how Jesus loved others. I think about you know, the classic story of Zacchaeus and um all of his disciples, those were all outcasts, those were people who, you know, were some of the worst people.

SPEAKER_04 20:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

And so yeah, and so I think we can get really comfortable, like, at least for me, and you can talk on this too. But for like when I look at my life, I'm like, I'm so comfortable with my little circle of church friends, and then I'm so comfortable, you know, I care about these people because they agree with me. And so, like, what does it look like to befriend people who don't agree with you?

SPEAKER_05 20:45

Yeah, totally. Um, I mean, I'm with you, like I'm just the the places where I would most likely be an effective evangelist, um, my conviction is my AirPods are in. Like when I when I'm at the gym or something, or I'm like like my AirPods are in. Like I'm listening, and I'm listening to sermons or Christian podcasts or things that are feeding me, feeding me, feeding me. Right. Um, but I'm not creating relationships with these people that I work out with. Like there's a there's a guy at my gym that he wears like um like proud atheist type shirts. Yes. Like I can't think of it exactly, but like stuff that's just like, oh man, like uh kind of like trust the science stuff. And just just like it's just stuff that's like I'm pushing back on like if you remember the Darwin fish? Yes, like the Jesus fish and then the Darwin fish. He hasn't worn a shirt with a Darwin fish on it, but practically he has.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 21:44

And we know each other at this point, like we're there in the same pattern, same rhythm. Like we look, we give each other like little heads up.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Like wow, y'all are like buds. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 21:52

But but have I ever talked to him or so that's We all I think we could all probably relate to that. But the onus, when we use the word onus, onus is like a guilty push. Like you're supposed to be doing this. It's a should. And should is just a weighty, burdensome, just like uh kill joy, um, emotion sucker, motivation sucker. I bet the Krakorians had your parents over because they felt a pull, not a push. Like I bet they felt the Lord pull their hearts. Right. I bet they prayed and watched and said, Lord, is there anybody that you want us to open our home to? And the Lord just pulled them towards your parents. And then because it's a pull and you're just walking toward Jesus in it, that's totally different motivation.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:49

And um, and so when you're you're pulled into something, there's a there's an excitement about it, like, what's gonna happen? And and uh and if it's not going well, it's like, well, uh it isn't really about you getting to my church.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Right.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

Uh this is about us following Jesus. And I don't know what this is gonna do in the end that we said yes to this, but uh, and we're gonna bring this around. Step one of being an evangelist, of being willing to share the gospel, is to follow the pull of Jesus, not the push of community Christian guilt. Right. Like, what's the pull of Jesus?

SPEAKER_00 23:27

It's so good.

SPEAKER_05 23:28

And it might just be, um, hey, I want your AirPods out.

SPEAKER_01 23:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:34

This next next time you go to the gym, I want your AirPods out. Doesn't have to be always. I'm already dealing with Jesus. I'm already bargaining right now. Right. Jesus, it doesn't have to be every time, right? Like, okay, okay, yeah. But are you gonna say yes to Jesus saying, okay, let's go AirPods out?

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:52

Actually, I think the way the Lord does this is I forget to charge my AirPods every now and then.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Oh, that gets all of us every single time.

SPEAKER_05 23:59

And then I'm in the car, like, oh should I just not work out today?

SPEAKER_01 24:05

Like this is a really good excuse, right?

SPEAKER_05 24:08

Like this is I should just go back home and have pancakes because uh my airpods are not charged.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Right.

SPEAKER_05 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah. It's um it's such a funny thing to like look at those little moments, or like I, you know, live downtown and so I have a lot of transient people or um our neighbors. I like I said, from the south. So I first day that I moved in, I went and knocked on our neighbor's door. I said, Hi, I'm Ella. You know, like you've got some neighbors too. Oh, yeah. We got some place. And um I had this one lady, she was like, Why are you why why are you talking to me? Like, I don't know, I've lived here for 50 years and I don't know any of my neighbors. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I'm happy with it.

SPEAKER_05 24:50

Like, that's the way that it's like, like, that's how I want to go about it.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

But um, my husband and I were talking about like it could just be so simple as like, you know, bringing bread home that was left over from the bakery and just knocking on Vivian's door and being like, hey, like this is for you. Um, you know, if you need anything, give us a call. And it can just be super simple like that. And I think that it's really easy to think, you know, when we're supposed to like evangelize, evangelize, and you're supposed to be running up to people and being like, Do you know Jesus? Jesus loves you. And then you know what I mean? And I think that um yeah, that is definitely more you know, the weight instead of the push.

SPEAKER_05 25:29

Yeah. Yeah. Sort of like the I got to, I have to do this to you, even though it's gonna be terrible for you and for me.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Right.

SPEAKER_05 25:37

Instead of um an invitation into curiously knowing one another and and seeing what God has for this relationship and and um yeah, being a friend. Being a friend. I for us as a church, there's kind of two practices that we center on in evangelism. Not claiming that we do this really very well because you probably heard me talk of neither of these.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_05 26:00

But one of them is there's a guy in Denver named Dave Runyon, wrote a book years ago called The Art of Neighboring. And um ten years ago we had him down, he did some training with us, and uh we got people these these books, but mostly we got them these magnets. We need to do this again, by the way. Since we both work here, let's remember to do this.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 26:20

Um where the magnet is your house is in the middle. It's this yellow magnet, it's a square with squares in it, and your house is in the middle, and then you write down the names of your neighbors.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 26:33

Like who lives to my right, to my left, across the street, over there, over there, behind me down the street, you know. So do you know the names of your neighbors? And you write them down, put them on your fridge. Because the bottom line is like my experience is I forget the names of my neighbors, if I know them at all.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Right.

SPEAKER_05 26:51

So first is know them. Second is can I remember the names of my neighbors and pray for them and maybe start to try to remember what they're going through in life.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Right.

SPEAKER_05 27:02

So it's the art of neighboring. It's like, again, it's like be a friend, be a neighbor.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:08

And the other one is um from a friend called Don Everts, and uh he's taught, and we I have talked about this in a number of sermons over the years, but he talked about having spiritual conversations that last through five thresholds. Now, having not thought of this until I just sat down, I'm not gonna remember the five thresholds, but it's it's things like um uh like be a friend, um uh get to know trust that do they trust a someone who's a Christian? Trusting a Christian is one of the thresholds. It's like knowing a Christian, trusting a Christian.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Right. That's a big one.

SPEAKER_05 27:47

And it's a big one. Um having serious questions, um, and pursuing answers. And only then is there gonna be a moment where, well, why don't you come to Easter with me? Or or why don't we sit down for coffee? Because I I want to tell you my story of how Jesus changed my life. And so, not very ordered thinking, but step one, be a friend, step two, know your neighbors. Uh step three, be in be in long-term, persevering spiritual conversations.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Right.

SPEAKER_05 28:21

Like remember where this where does this leave off? Last time I was talking with Ella, where does it leave off? I want to be praying for that next step to come, but I'm also real patient. I just want to be there for her and have in enduring spiritual conversations, um, and then you know, be willing to share your testimony.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

Yeah, vulnerability is huge when it comes to just being as like a young life leader. Yeah. It's I think it's one of the most powerful things that you can do, and most um it's so hard to do. But man, it's I think it's one of the most powerful things when you're sharing the gospel.

SPEAKER_05 29:01

I think one of the biggest themes of life in our times is that we think of one another as static instead of dynamic. So we meet we meet people and we see them where they are, and we figure they've always been like that, and that's just that's who they are. And they're not moving anywhere, they haven't come from anywhere. That's just they're them, and I'm me. Right. And what we lose in that is that we are all like this very poetic, we're all like birds in flight. Okay. But that guy's something right out of the notebook, Tim. There you go. Yeah. We're we're all birds in flight over the frothy seas. Uh but we're all in motion. And and until you tell your story or sit down, or open up with some vulnerability and tell your story, someone just thinks, oh, there you are, you're um a Presbyterian minister. Well, I wasn't always a Presbyterian minister, you know? And um, you've got this marriage that's together, you've got this family that's together. Well, not always. And let me tell you the story of God changing my life, and that opens up a gateway for other people to believe, well, maybe my story can change too. Because otherwise they think you're there, I'm here, and none of us is ever gonna move.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

Well, we're all changing, we're all growing. Yeah. And so breaking that down through storytelling is huge.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

Yeah. That's so good. It was so good to talk to you about it because I think that a lot of times when we think, you know, sharing the gospel, we're thinking about, you know, going up to people in grocery stores and being like, Jesus loves you, you know, repent of your sins. But the reality is, is that it looks a lot like friendship. Yeah. And I believe so. Vulnerable.

unknown 30:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:49

Absolutely. Good.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:52

Well, thank you, Ella. Thank you for being part of this Light in Life uh podcast today. And we're going to continue talking about evangelism next time.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:00

And so uh get out there and be a friend.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Know your neighbors.

SPEAKER_05 31:04

See you next week.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Bye.