Empowering Others on Our Journey with Sobah Sistahs Founder Megan Wilcox

In this episode of the Reframeable Podcast, hosts Kevin Bellack and Emma Simmons are joined by Megan Wilcox, founder of the Sobah Sistahs Empowerment Club. They discuss the journey of sobriety, the importance of community support, and the transformative power of embracing an alcohol-free lifestyle. Megan shares her personal story of recovery, the challenges she faced, and how she turned her life around through online support groups and sober retreats. The conversation highlights the misconceptions around sobriety, the joy of living alcohol-free, and the positive impact it can have on family and relationships. 

Megan Wilcox is the founder of the Sobah Sistahs Empowerment Club and host of the Sobah Sistahs Podcast.  Megan is a Certified Recovery coach with a background in trauma healthcare. Since getting sober in 2020, she’s built a community supporting women on their alcohol-free journey and running sober retreats all around the world.  Megan is all about showing women that sobriety isn’t a punishment - it’s a powerful choice.  

Website: https://sobahsistahs.mn.co/

IG: @SobahSistahs

Podcast: Sobah Sistahs

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Transcript

Megan Wilcox: Sobah Sistahs
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​[00:00:00] 

Kevin: Welcome everyone to another episode of the Reframeable podcast. A podcast that brings you people's stories and ideas about how we can work to reframe our relationship, not just with alcohol, but with stress, anxiety, relationships, enjoyment, and so much more.

'cause changing our relationship with alcohol is about so much more than changing the contents of our glass. This podcast is brought to you by the Reframe app. Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. My name is Kevin Bellack. I'm a certified professional recovery coach and the head of coaching at the Reframe app.

Emma: And I'm Emma Simmons. I'm a Reframer certified life coach and Thrive coach with Reframe. And I'm from New Zealand. Today's special guest is Megan Wilcox, founder of Sober Sisters Sobriety and host of the Sober Sisters podcast.

Megan is a certified recovery coach with a background in trauma healthcare. Since getting sober in 2020, [00:01:00] she's built a community supporting women on their alcohol-free journey, run sober retreats around the world, and launched the Sober Sisters Empowerment Club. Megan is all about showing women that sobriety isn't a punishment.

It's a powerful choice. Welcome, Megan. So good to have you here. 

Megan: Yeah, so happy to be here. Thank you for that wonderful intro. 

Emma: I love that blurb. I love empowering women and that sobriety isn't a punishment. Sobriety is so much fun, and I definitely wish more people. Knew that, realized that, experienced it.

Yeah. 

Megan: Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that mindset shift, once you go from, ugh, this sucks it's a punishment to, this is gonna be the greatest opportunity of my life. I feel like things can definitely shift, for us and becomes more fun. 

Emma: Yeah. Because you can do you can still have so much fun.

You can still dance and party and go on adventures and do activities sober, and you get to remember it, experience it fully, not wake up the next morning and be like, oh shit, what happened last [00:02:00] night?

Kevin: For the record, I still can't dance, but just to say that I, I might do it. I didn't say 

Emma: you had to do it.

Well,

Kevin: Yeah. Okay. Just checking. I'm just saying. 

Megan: Yeah, you dance, you just don't care, you're just having fun. Yeah. 

Emma: Yeah. So tell us, so you've been sober since 2020. Congratulations. Awesome milestone. How did that happen? 

Megan: Yeah, that's a great question. So in a nutshell, it was that time in 2020.

We all know what happened there. And my drinking wasn't good before that, leading up until, the pandemic and everything. And it just, it really came to a head around that time. And it was my divorce actually a few years earlier that sort of triggered everything. Again, my relationship with alcohol was not good.

It was not healthy, but it wasn't an obsession. I wasn't thinking about it every day. I could go days without drinking and just something shifted where I was really using it as a unhealthy coping mechanism after my divorce. And next thing [00:03:00] it's like I'm drinking every night. I had young kids, working in the er and then I'm trying to homeschool my kids.

And it was Christmas Christmas of 2020 that I had my awakening, if you will, where I just woke up. Sat up straight in my bed after drinking by myself. Then I didn't have my kids and just sitting up and talking out loud and saying can someone you know, help me, I can't do this anymore.

And that's when, I guess that's surrendering. I didn't realize that's what I was doing at that moment, but that everything changed. I started doing online support groups for the first time 'cause there was nothing in person. So I had, Googled the, am I an alcoholic or local AA meetings in my area, but I never, I've still to this day have never gone to an in-person like local meeting or anything.

And but that was the turning point when I started doing online support groups. 

Emma: Wow. Yeah. I love that. I, I. Your story sounds similar to mine in that there wasn't like a massive rock bottom. Like there wasn't this [00:04:00] catastrophic disaster or blow up or event that made you go, oh shit, I have to quit drinking.

It was just like this gradual progression and eventually you went, what the hell am I doing? I need help. I need, yeah. What do I do? And that, that, that's Googling. Am I an alcoholic? Am I like, how do I know? I think so many of us have done that. And then, bless social media and the algorithms because you end up getting given so many adverts for various things.

And that's how I found reframe. Without realizing but yeah. Less social media. It's one good thing. It does, 

Megan: yeah. Honestly, if it wasn't for either social media and for online support groups and things, I. I definitely would still be drinking and I don't even know if I would be here today to be talking.

Yeah. It's it's wild really to think about that one thing can just change everything. And it gave me this opportunity to really take a look at it from the comfort of my own home. And, it was really, it was a really scary thought to go somewhere and to, say I have this [00:05:00] problem.

I'm, my mental health is in the absolute gutter. But just logging on and not putting the camera on and just lurking I guess you could say. But I won't ever forget my first call and it was right after the new year it's dry January, so there's a million people on it 'cause everybody's, coming out of the woodwork.

But just that feeling of, oh my gosh, like I thought I was the only person that was struggling. And here we are, like hundreds of people, on this call. And I just left with so much, hope after that first time. 

Emma: I think that's, so that's one of the really beautiful things about community when you do jump on a, I've also never been to an in-person meeting, so like you I can't comment on that.

But when you jump on a Zoom call or a, online video call and there are so many other people just like you, so working professionals, mothers, people who are still holding it together, but are, mentally unwell in the sense that they've been putting a depressant into their lives so heavily that, I [00:06:00] was depression, anxiety, all of those things as well.

And didn't realize that it was alcohol. And now two years out of, I'm two years sober as well. That, when you realize, oh, maybe I was depressed because I was putting a depressant in my body every single day for years. Who knew who would've thought it's a thing? Like it's just that how did I not pick that up five, 10 years ago?

Megan: Yeah. I feel like a lot of reasons too, why we don't, because I hear it all the time how women go to their doctors or their therapist, whatever, and try to express that they're struggling with alcohol. And sometimes they'll say we'll just drink less or almost like totally downplay it.

Blow them off. And I think that's it's like reassurance because on the outside we might look okay, but in the inside we're absolutely like dying inside. But it's hard I guess for people who are trying to help us on the outside. Even my own mother would be like, just drink less, drink water in between.

'cause she didn't, I live [00:07:00] 500 miles away from my family, so they didn't see me. Waking up at 3:00 AM absolutely destroying myself. 

Kevin: Yeah. And I think that's. I experienced that too, but I feel as a guy, I also didn't tell the whole truth to my doctor. I was like, kind down, may, and it, that's not univer.

That's a universal thing. But, I would go, I remember going in like December of 2018 and I was sitting there thinking maybe I hear about these medications. Maybe I can get something there. I'm like, so I tried to say okay, I, I'm drinking a little bit too much and by a little bit too much.

He can, he knows he's sitting there and it's oh yeah, your blood pressure is one 50 over a hundred and there's this and there's that. And it's like you're just drinking just a little bit too much. Nice. Sure. Kevin. Like they know, but. Yeah, cause right before that, he knew he knew I had fatty liver, I had an ultrasound and all that, and I had a nurse practitioner or somebody call me after the results were in from that.

And it was like, eat less fatty foods, [00:08:00] moderate your alcohol consumption and it was like, you know, along my, on my way. Meanwhile I'm sitting here just what the hell do I do? Like I have this new information and I want to ask for help, but I don't know who to ask where to go.

Yeah. Until I got, the following year in January when I had a similar, when you were telling a little bit about how you, that, night in your bed, in bed. And when you sat up and said that I did the same thing, I was sitting on my couch and I was like, I can't keep effing doing this.

Like I have to change and do something different. And it's. Yeah, that's, I hear that all the time. I hear my story, right? And no matter who's telling it, like I always hear something that, connects that we just don't know what to do. And I pulled out my journal here because you had talked about oh, do I have a problem or whatever.

And I actually was on the plane last week and I wrote four pages. It was a little journal, so it's smaller pages. [00:09:00] But I wrote at the top, I was reading something and I got annoyed and I wrote the question at the top, I said, and then I just started writing. And I said, why do I have such a problem with having a "problem"?

I have a problem with that statement , because I feel like that held me back for so long. It's that black and white judgment, or I either have a problem or I don't type of thing. I. Yeah, that's, I went on a old tirade in my journal on the plane. 

Megan: That's cool. So I love 

that.

Wow. That's cool that you journal and can write about that and are still intrigued of like why are, why is this, why is it the way it is? Why do I struggle? Why do other people not? And I think we want answers, right? Like we want, and we're like looking for that when we're at that moment and we're really struggling we're really reaching out.

I know I was like, I was trying to tell people, but I think people didn't know what to do either. Isn't that kind of crazy? Like people who, at least people who don't struggle with it. Like they didn't know, like my family didn't know and what to do and I [00:10:00] kept saying I wanna go away. I think I need to go to like a.

Like a treatment center, 30 days. I need to be like, plucked outta my life and put somewhere for 30 days. 

Emma: And that's so scary to ask. You don't wanna say, oh I need to go to rehab. 'cause then it's, whoa, you've got this massive problem and how bad is it? And and that's terrifying. But I love the idea of yeah, plucking yourself out of the world that you're in and just like focusing on your sobriety or what you need just for a week, two weeks, 30 days.

And I. For me, I didn't do that. Didn't have that luxury, yeah, luxury. But I did, I know early on in sobriety, I did have the luxury of having a husband in the house. I still do that made it sound like I don't anymore. I still do. Although he works out of town. But he's, oh gosh. Sorry, babe. But I did have the luxury of being able to say to him, I can't be in the kitchen cooking dinner. Like when I finish work, I need to go to bed. And I [00:11:00] would go to bed at 5 30, 6 o'clock at night and I would just remove myself from the situation. I couldn't parent, I couldn't cook dinner, I couldn't watch TV on the sofa because those were all trigger points for me.

So whilst I didn't pluck myself out of life completely, I did have the luxury of removing myself and retreating to my room and. I used to call it rage nap. Like I would be so angry that I couldn't participate in, in, in family life and that everything was so triggering for me that I would be so angry that I would put on a podcast or an audiobook and go to sleep.

And Rage nap. 

Megan: Rage Nap. I've heard of the Rage Walk and things like that, but never Rage walk rage. One rage burpees. 

Emma: Rage nap. Yeah. Master rage, napping rage. 

Kevin: I feel like I would just be sitting there sta laying down, staring at the ceiling, just being angry at a rage nap. 

Emma: Oh, definitely napping. I definitely had to have like distractions as well.

It wasn't like I was just laying in bed angry. 'cause yeah, that wouldn't help me. But I went through that whole like, [00:12:00] frustrated, sobbing, grieving process as well in bed by myself. Which was definitely hard on, on my husband. I don't, I haven't actually asked the kids whether they remember that or noticed it or acknowledged it.

Maybe I'll do that. 

Megan: How old were they? How old were your kids when you 

Emma: They were two years ago. 14 and eight ish. Yeah. Yeah. So one's definitely old enough to remember. The 14-year-old although, I don't know, do 14 year olds really pay attention to anything else going on in the world other than themselves?

I had to tell. 

Kevin: Yeah. They, I would say that they notice. 

Emma: I think she probably noticed, but I don't know that she'd ever talked to me about it, not yet. But the eight yearold is my why, or that was my rock bottom, if you will. We were reading Harry Potter in bed, bad Harry Potter fans in this family, and I had my glass of wine next to her bed whilst she was reading.

I was drinking. And then once we finished the [00:13:00] chapter, I went to give her a kiss and a cuddle. Good night. And she was like, she recoiled and went, oh mom, your breast smells really bad. And I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Yeah. Like just that. Holy shit. And so that was my rock bottom, which isn't a catastrophic, my world is falling apart or, yeah, that, so she's my 8-year-old.

She still looks at my phone. Actually, there was a glitch on the Reframe app a while back, and it kept showing up on the widget on my phone that I had zero days alcohol free. And she was like, mom? And I was like no. But she's been super supportive this whole way through, which is. 

Megan: Love that. Yeah, it is fun when they like know what, I have two boys, they're almost 16 and almost 11 now, and so they know what I do and now my son's at a time where he's around it.

He's around drinking now, so I'm so glad we can talk about it and he knows what I do and what I've some of what I've been through and things like that. And I feel like we're, we'll continue to have conversations, [00:14:00] but I think it's so great that they, yeah, I think they maybe if they don't, didn't see exactly what was going on, depending how old they were and things, I think they, no matter what, will see the positive shift once you get so.

Absolutely. Like that they'll notice. And so if you can eventually say that other version maybe that was, when before I got sober and that wasn't the best version of me, but this is, and I think that is what they will hopefully see and remember. 

Emma: Yeah, and I love that there are people in the world like, like you, Megan and I guess like us Kevin that are recovering out loud and are recovering in such a positive, vibrant way.

And I guess exhibiting to our kids in the next generation of, you don't need alcohol to have fun. That there is a better way of life. And yeah, asking for help doesn't need to be scary or, changing a relationship with alcohol isn't definitely, isn't a bad thing, but just that there's this like vibrance to life.

I think there need to be more people recovering out loud and really proud to be alcohol free [00:15:00] because 

Megan: it's awesome. 

Kevin: Showing that you can do it too, because speaking of even kids, and like my daughter's gonna be 18 this summer, she just, or she's done with her junior year now officially this past week.

She's been around it. And I remember it was like two, one or two years ago, one of her friends from grade school said she doesn't, she's not drinking. And they were like, how do you have fun if you don't drink? This is at a party. And I'm like, whoa. I'm like, that's young to be saying that.

I hear that from people who are much older, and I've heard it from people in their sixties or whatever, who've shared , oh yeah, my friend was like, oh, you're not gonna be fun. You're not gonna be fun, whoever, because you're not drinking. Oh, come on.

And, but to have a kid who like two years before was in eighth grade and it's like, what did you do then? And maybe it was drinking, but to, to be like the, just that, that mindset is already there. [00:16:00] Yeah. So I think definitely being able to see a different way is huge. 

Megan: Yeah. Yeah, that's wild to really think about that, that at that age, but I think that shows like how young this is instilled in us or programmed in society and things like that, that it is something that adults used to have fun that it's needed.

And obviously what we've found out here is that it's not, and I've honestly, I'm like it's actually boring, drinking, it's boring, being hungover on a beautiful Saturday or Sunday or any day really of the week. That's boring. When you really think about what comes with it. So I feel sobriety is fun and drinking

Emma: is boring.

Making is the most fun you've ever had on your sober retreats? 

Megan: Yes. The most fun and the most, adventurous. I really was. I had a lot of social anxiety, a lot of anxiety. I didn't even have a passport till I was 38 till after I got sober. And so I didn't even go anywhere. I was afraid. So [00:17:00] I lived really small and like drinking just like at home or in my local area.

That was fun to me. I really didn't realize. And now it's like I've been to Bali three times and going back and forth. I've, I've been on Pana, I got, yeah, I'm just traveling and just having so much genuine fun, I guess too is what's the difference? When you're on these retreats and you're with these other women and there's no alcohol and you can just be yourself and you can laugh and, I don't know.

It's just, yeah, they're so much fun and just, it's still wild to me that I get on a plane and go, 30 hours across the world and I go on these retreats and actually are like hosting them. I had never even been on a retreat when I hosted my first retreat. 

Emma: It's pretty funny. Wow. 30 hours. You're in Boston area?

Yeah. Yeah. So 

Megan: yeah, it's only one connecting flight, which is awesome. I fly to Dubai and then, have one other, so they're two super long flights. 

Emma: Yeah. I've just done the New Zealand to La LA to [00:18:00] Salt Lake City. Salt Lake City to Montana. So 26, 28 hours. But when we landed back in New Zealand, coming home my friend and I that we were, I was traveling with to meet up with reframes, we looked at each other, we said, should we just stay on the plane and go back?

We'd happily do another 26 hours in a row to have that connection and that community and the fun. So much fun. So many adventures. Even just hanging out on the sofa and chatting. The, yeah, the connection is so real and impactful and I don't know, we just. We can still do wild, crazy, fun things, unhinged things together.

Yeah. Yeah. 

Kevin: Much fun. You slide that in there. The unhinged things together. Unhinged. Yeah. 

Emma: But yeah. Awesome. 

Kevin: That's yeah. 'cause I know I definitely got some severe fomo. It wasn't fear of missing out, I was just full on missing out. 'cause I came back a day or two early from that trip and I'm sitting here, I'd hop on a reframe meeting and see them all [00:19:00] on the couch together on the, on one of the little zoom squares.

And then seeing pictures of what they were doing after we left. I'm like, damn it. 

Megan: Yeah. It's

Kevin: it sucks. I'm staying the full time if we do this again. Yeah. When we do this again. 

Megan: Yeah. That's what I've learned. I've always now I go in a couple days early and I go home like I'm like the last one.

I was the last one to leave. Yeah. Simon Bali. I was like, I'm not being the first or the second. Yeah. But it was lonely being the last one to tell you the truth. I was like, darn it, I should have left like last night when everybody else did. I'm like, now it's so quiet. And it was just like so much fun, having coffee together every morning and laughing and breakfast and yoga every morning and just, our support circles every day.

And then I was like just sitting here by myself. I'm like, ah, miss everybody. Yeah. And these are yeah. People I'd never met in my entire life, and all of a sudden you're like, it's crazy how, and you can collapse time when you do these like in-person events and these retreats and it's, a week together is you've been together for a year or somethings.

Yeah. How do you, how you say that? 

Emma: Collapse time. 

Megan: [00:20:00] Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna ask, how do 

Kevin: you, how did you, I don't know if it's bridging the gap, but how did you get from where you started to starting to flip that to. As we were talking about earlier, like proud about your sobriety and things like what, because I know for me that wasn't always the case.

I wouldn't say I was, I don't know that I was, I don't dunno if shame played in it. I was gonna say, I don't know if I was ever really ashamed about it. There is that piece of it where, I was feeling bad about myself and I was missing this thing that was so huge and feeling deprived and focused on that deprivation versus focused on, what am I, what am I gaining from this too?

And, that was a slow and gradual shift, but how did that work for you from where you started to getting to the point of hosting these sober retreats and that type of [00:21:00] thing? 

Megan: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. And I have no idea. No. 

Kevin: Yeah, many things, right? Probably.

Megan: Yeah. And I think sometimes would, we, we don't share right away because we've maybe gone back and forth so many times and we've changed our mind so many times. And we've gone from oh, on day one I'm not drinking anymore. And then three days later we're drinking again. And so sometimes you don't know when it's like your time, when it's your time there that this is it, this is when it's gonna click.

But something about this last time was I just was really open about it. I don't know. I felt something inside of me very soon, probably a couple months into not drinking where I didn't feel the shame. I knew. I felt like night and day I went from not wanting to be here on this planet to, loving life and feeling good again, and feeling joy and all those things. So I just felt like I had a duty to share about it and talk about it and feel proud about it. And so I started my, the Soberist account when I was six months sober. And we, I had a group chat how I came up with the name Soberist was [00:22:00] there was a group chat with some other single moms here in my town.

And we were all trying, we were all drinking too much and we were all trying to quit. So we had a, like a chat on our phone that, and we named it Soba being in, in Boston, like a take on a a Boston accent. And I said, you know what, after I had gotten sober and stuff, I'm like, I'm gonna start an Instagram account.

Do you guys care? Like with our name sota? And then it just morphed into this like whole thing, I didn't, again, it was, I started the account for just like accountability and just for fun and creative outlet. So I guess just coming right outta the gate and being open with it, I. I don't know, I just really felt proud from the beginning because I just knew I was, it was a different, completely different life for me.

And I was like, I don't really care if people wanna judge me or, people are gonna hate on us either way when we're on our bottom or when we're on our top. So it's we might as well just own our story. And that was something I didn't really do my whole life. And I don't know, that's something sobriety just [00:23:00] brought out of me.

And yeah, and here I, and I think it saved me really, I always wonder, I'm like, what if I didn't start my Instagram account? What if I didn't like all these things? I'm like, I don't think I would've, been where, gotten to where I am today without it, which is scary. 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Emma: I just, yeah, I think, 

Kevin: go ahead.

I'm sorry. 

Emma: I was just gonna say, it takes so much courage to, to put yourself out there in such a public way. That you are alcohol free. There are so many people in the community that are just aren't the uncomfortable. And I respect that because it's scary. It's, to say that I, ke said, I have a problem.

Why do I have a problem having a problem and to put that out there? But then there's something beautiful about reclaiming that as well of yeah, I do have a problem, or I did have a problem, or I did have I'm recovering, but I'm gonna recover out loud because look how strong I am.

Look how awesome my life is [00:24:00] now. Yeah there's so much strength in it, but it's, but it, but there's still so many people out there who are scared to. To own it. So yeah, like I said before, I think it's awesome that there are people like us who are owning it and showing that it's awesome.

It's okay. There's nothing to be ashamed of or embarrassed about or 

Megan: yeah it's not a bad thing. Yeah.

Kevin: And Megan, you Yeah. 'cause you mentioned about how, we might've tried this before and, so we, I don't know on day three that it, is this the time it's gonna take or is this the time it's gonna work or click or, so yeah, there is that vulnerability, but also that scared of putting yourself, being scared of putting yourself out there because, it's not like we've been because we wanna be perfect.

It's not like we, this has worked before, so why will it work this time? And to put yourself out there is, that's really scary. But. How can we just switch to having that, and I say this as a way [00:25:00] to, with anything that we do, I try and tell myself this now with new things, it's like, you're gonna suck at this.

It's fine. You're not gonna know what to do, but can you try and that because of what I did with, related to alcohol, I've learned that. But that's tough sometimes to just come right out of the gate. Sharon but I shared something with a client the other day. 'cause you know about, I, I had a, it was another like journal entry years ago that I heard someone talk about like the what ifs.

And I'm like, huh, what are my what ifs? And that was one of 'em was what if I didn't share on Instagram? What if I didn't share, create an account and share? Would I be sober now? 

Megan: Yeah. Answer's 

Kevin: probably no. 

It's so 

Megan: crazy, isn't it, to just think how one, we're all one decision away from, totally different life.

I love that saying, and it's so true with this. 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Emma: Oh, I love that. One decision away from a totally different life. That's so cool.

Megan: Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say too sometimes I'll even suggest to clients or just, women that [00:26:00] I work with is to maybe start an account. I, an anonymous account.

If you're not ready to put yourself out there, just start like in talking about it, where you don't have to necessarily obviously be talking, but you can be typing about it. You can create your little memes or, whatever it might be. But just starting there where you're it's a good way to transition to maybe, where you're ready to be open about it and things like that.

So I'll sometimes suggest that, and something else that helps me to either own it or to not feel the shame about it. And is that alcohol is, a drug. It's super addictive. It's meant to get us addicted. It's not, we're not really super unique that we're struggling with it, and it changes our brain over time and that it can suck anybody in, like the smartest person, the, what, any type of career, any job, any background that it, and you could maybe not have a problem for a long time, and then all of a sudden you do. And, because the nature of it being progressive, but just reminding myself like it's a drug. It's a psychoactive drug that [00:27:00] changes our brain. And so I think learning about it and what you guys do at the Reframe app of, teaching about it I love it.

Being able to see read this is what's happening on this day and this is, all those things. I think it, when you start learning and educating yourself about it, that helps the shame go away. I feel like, 

Emma: Yeah, because you've got a a background in medical, like emergency room medical, you're emergency room, medical professional.

So firstly, thank you for everything that you've, that you do for people every day, because that's a huge weight to carry. So thank you for your service. But how, I guess you've got insight into sort of behind the scenes of the worst of the things that can go wrong when things go really wrong.

So I wonder, I don't know how to ask the question. What were there moments that, are there still moments where you go, holy shit, this is really bad? 

Megan: A hundred percent yes. And I still work in the er, so I work, per diem, which means I'll just, mainly I work on sober sisters and sobriety coaching, but I still.

I [00:28:00] keep my toe in there because I do love working in the hospital. Even just this weekend I worked some overnights and we had, like a drunk driving accident where, you know, some young kids like, got injured like pretty bad. And just seeing them and like smelling the alcohol and being like, this is what if this was my kid?

And this is all because of alcohol, because of this beverage that puts these people here in this situation. Or, had a 3-year-old woman who came through, she came in the middle of the night 'cause she got her liver or like she was waiting on a liver transplant. And so seeing those types of things or seeing them like doing their x-ray after their, liver transplant.

But I'll, a lot of times they'll come in for that and I'll get to talk to them when they come in for their, 'cause you get a call and they're like, okay, we have a liver. So you literally have an hour or something to come in and so I'll do their chest x-ray and. And I wanna talk with them so bad and give them a hug and be, but my position there isn't, you know what I do.

So I don't obviously say anything, but I wanna be like, it's okay. I get it. I've, been there I haven't been there needing a liver transplant, thankfully. But [00:29:00] seeing that it can happen to anyone, and seeing how half the, I swear it's half the ER is there for an alcohol related reason, whether it's a fall, an accident, mental health, liver issues or heart issues, like anything, like just seeing that and that was really making me, look in the mirror at myself what am I, how much are these people drinking? I wanted to ask them like, how much are you drinking? Is this, I almost there because sometimes you don't really have a lot of the signs and your next thing it's your numbers are all over the place.

So that played a huge part. And just still seeing that to this day, like I said, like smelling it or seeing the accident, seeing these people, it's I'm never going back. This is what it does. It destroys completely amazing, incredible people in the blink of an eye. So is, yeah, it's like just such an everyday, every time I go there, reminder of what it can do and the poison that it is.

Emma: Wow. Did you say 3-year-old getting a liver transplant? Yeah. 

Megan: Yeah. Wow. And that was too, with [00:30:00] COVID, we were seeing young, it people in their twenties we were seeing and just more and definitely women, more women than ever we are seeing coming through like with liver issues from alcohol like forties and fifties.

And I was just like, what is going on wild? Because, women will hit the repercussions healthwise from alcohol before a man. So it's just, yeah. It's it's pretty crazy to, to see that. And I'm always like, I wish I could bring like a camera in and be like, this is what it really, this sucks.

This is, you do not want this. This can happen to anyone and we don't, you just don't know when, obviously couldn't do that, but Yeah. Yeah. 

Emma: Yeah, that's wild. I, before I got sober, I was having blood worked out. I kept, and my iron levels were rock bottom. I kept needing iron infusions. And so I had to get regular blood tests and my bloods came back that I had high cholesterol regularly and I was working out, like I was doing hit exercises and strength conditioning five or six days a week.

I was eating healthy. I was eating a [00:31:00] pretty good diet. Even notice my candy addiction. I was eating a pretty good diet, like I wasn't eating takeaways or, fast food, hardly ever. I was, yeah, exercising, eating well. I was young and I was, and the doctors and nurses were like, oh, just watch your diet and make sure you're exercising.

I was like, but I'm like. Turns out I was drinking heavily. Didn't tell the doctors or nurses that, but they never questioned that also. So now that I'm alcohol free, my cholesterol levels are fine. I haven't had an iron infusion since I got alcohol free. Wow. But yeah. Who knew? I wish. I wish.

And what do I wish I don't know. I just think that's an amazing insight into, I, I had no idea that I knew alcohol affected your liver. That was probably it actually. I didn't know it affected like cholesterol. Yeah. 'Cause there was absolutely no reason as a 3-year-old woman for me to have the cholesterol of a 68-year-old man on a fast food diet.

It's ridiculous. Yeah. Those little things, those you don't think. [00:32:00] 

Kevin: And Yeah, because you, Megan, you said like, how much are you drinking? You wanting to ask that. I feel like that you were saying you, you were wanting to ask that question when you were still drinking. 'cause I, I know I was doing that and I think that's such a, that's something that a lot of, we all do, a lot of people do where, and then that person tells us and we're like, okay, I'm not drinking that much.

Yeah. And that's the wrong, again, that's one of those things that, that's the wrong question. It's not about how much we're drinking compared to someone else or whatever it's, is that, are you having other issues and you're trying to, especially if you're trying to do all these things like Emma, you just laid out like what's the one thing that you could, take a look at and change that you haven't already?

It's, it's, alcohol is not a. That benign substance that I think it's made out to be. It's I thought that too. I thought, I was like, oh, it impacts your liver. No. Heart, brain. Everything in the digestive track, yeah. [00:33:00] Skin, it is just hair, everything, everything gets impacted.

And cancer 

Megan: risk. 

Kevin: Cancer risk, yeah. That's seven, nine different cancers increases the risk of more so for women than men, I believe and pair 

Emma: Mepa. Kevin, you're so lucky.

Like I had no idea about how it impacts your hormones as particularly as a woman. I'm sure it impacts women for men as well. I actually haven't looked into that. Sorry. Kiv. But it, yeah, for women it's horrific. It can like your hot flushes and. Hair growth and your estrogen levels and what's 

Megan: everything?

Alcohol. It's always like this supplement, do this, take this medication, whatever. It's never. Don't drink alcohol or how much are you drinking? Or, I was saying I feel like we're asking the wrong questions too because checklist, it's do you smoke, do you drink? And it's yes or no, or it could be weekly or, I would always say socially, like I, I wasn't saying, oh, I'm drinking bottles of wine a week, [00:34:00] or, whatever it would be.

And so I've actually tried to work with my ob GYN doctor here, and to try to come up with a better, better questioning around, know alcohol. Like, how does it make you feel? How much are you drinking? How often do you have negative self-talk the next day? Are you blacking out?

Are you forgetting parts of the night? Like having better questions are you feeling more anxious the next day? And then being able to educate, because I think if we're just asking like a generic, like open, do you 

Emma: drink? And what number. 

Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because we all, because we do lie, we don't tell the truth.

Not everybody, but some of us, yeah. We'd be downplay it all, 

Emma: I would've two or three a night. Sure. And that's that's fine. But my two or three was like fricking Yeah. Mug sized. It was night. Yeah. My, my one, one 

Kevin: beer, if I said one beer, my one beer wasn't a Coors Light, it was a 20 ounce something.

Yeah. Super. With 15% alcohol. Yeah. Super. Yeah. And I was 

Emma: slurping off the top of my wine glass. [00:35:00] 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Emma: That was, that's one glass. 

Kevin: Yeah. And we don't take that into account either. Like the, yeah. What were how much that those 20 ounce, 12 12% beers, I knew they weren't one.

But they're really like three or maybe even four because of the concentration. If you're just saying like drinks as people, when doctors ask how many drinks do you have? That should be three uhhuh, not one, not two or one. 

Megan: Which is why I feel like the question shouldn't be like necessarily, do you drink or not?

Or 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Megan: Or how much it should be like, how do you feel? Yes. Hate yourself. How does impact you having this internal struggle? Just asking better questions because it's the amount of I, I feel people that go to their doctor, oh, I'm anxious, I'm depressed. And then it's just here's medication and now we're drinking on top of that.

Now we're like exacerbating all of our symptoms, which is what I did. I was drinking and trying to treat depression and anxiety and had, I had, I didn't know. I didn't, I knew it said [00:36:00] on the thing like, don't drink with it, but. I would push the envelope. Yeah. Those are just 

Kevin: suggestions, right?

Exactly. Exactly. That's what I would say. 

Megan: I would be like, and I remember even asking my mom too, my mom's a nurse and being like, can I have a glass of wine with this, whatever? And she'd be like, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. A glass all right, whatever. Because she didn't really know again, like how much I was drinking and really how dangerous, like I really feel like I was having, like seizures or something because I could feel this, towards the end when I was drinking and taking medication.

So dangerous. I would recommend not doing that. Yeah. If you are like, let them know that you're drinking 'cause it's not gonna work your, medication. Yeah. 

Emma: Yeah. I was like you, I was on the highest dosage of SSRIs and anti-anxiety medication and I was like, it's not working. This medication is not working.

And the doctors knew I was drinking, but I, again, I wasn't being honest with my medical team and. And I do remember one, one psychiatrist [00:37:00] saying, oh, maybe you need to think about how much you're drinking, but it, and that was, and he gave me a handout and that was it, but it, he didn't dig any deeper, but kudos to that one, one guy who actually mentioned something, but yeah, who knew when you stopped drinking alcohol, the medication can actually work.

So now I'm way down. I'm on like a maintenance minimum dose of SSRIs and I'm, my doctor has said I could come off them now if I want, because it's probably not really impacting me at all. But I'm okay having a maintenance dose just in case he's, yeah. Just in case he's 

Megan: something too.

I just remembered. Real quick was I did tell, I ended up changing therapist and I was, I had taken probably at this point, maybe like a hundred days where I hadn't drank, but I was still having, I hadn't really done any of the work. I was still having like cravings and this doctor did listen to me, the psychologist, and she ended up sending me to a psychiatrist who then, told me about Naltrexone.

And that's when I started taking that. And I had no idea about it. And [00:38:00] at first I said no. I was like, I don't, I'm not taking, I'm not someone who needs a medication to quit drinking, and I totally was like she's just go research and read about it. And I remember it said, you don't have to hit rock bottom to want a better life.

And I took her for five or six months and it was like the best thing. It was just that next thing I needed to get more time under my belt. So I'm just like, it's fine the right doctor if they're not hearing you or you feel like you can't share about your drinking, then go to it, try to find a different one, or, just really try to tell somebody who gets it, whether it's a.

A coach or a friend or anything like that. Find the people who are gonna actually give you actionable steps and not just say, drink water in between, yeah. 

Emma: Yeah. I think that's a really good point as well. Find someone if you're not connecting with your doctor or your family GP or whoever it is, you, it's okay to shop around and find someone who you do connect with, who you do feel comfortable being like, okay, this is let's be honest and be brutally honest.

That's a big thing. I say be brutally honest with yourself and with your medical [00:39:00] team because you're not, you're just not gonna get the help that you need and it's not gonna have the impact that you need and that you want and that you're looking for. If you are not brutally honest yes, I'm having one can of beer, but it's actually three standard drinks per can, so let's be brutally honest about how much I'm drinking.

That's really important. 

Megan: Absolutely. 

Kevin: And just how, and like you said, Megan, how it makes you feel like Yes. It doesn't, that's what it's not about the number. It's if it's making you feel that way and you're struggling to cut back or quit it, then that can be the thing that you say to the doctor too.

And I've heard so many people do who are so like averse to taking a medication or whatever. Something like that. And it's so you don't want to take that drug, but you will take this drug because that's what it is. It's not Yeah. 

Emma: Alcohol's a drug. It's not 

Kevin: drugs and alcohol. It's just drugs. So true.

It's, yeah. It's [00:40:00] alcohol is drugs with a excellent marketing team. Oh 

Megan: yeah. Yeah. The best.

Kevin: So it's, but it is that, it's self medication and but again, it's the, it's what we know. So that's it's okay because it's what we know legal versus Yeah. I can buy it 

Emma: in the store. 

Kevin: Yeah. 

Megan: Yeah, that's, I did a like a speaker meeting once and I had shared about how I took that and, and someone like was asked like a question, they're like, but I heard it's really bad for your liver. And I was like alcohol is the worst thing for your liver. And I figured the benefits outweigh the risks. Taking a medication for short term like so that in the long term I'm not drinking any alcohol.

And like it was, it's a no brainer. 

Kevin: Yeah. And 

Megan: I didn't take it lightly either. I had, don't panic, it's organic sign in my kitchen. I felt like I was super healthy. I read labels, had all of that, but I was drinking, I. Wine or rocket fuel or whatever,

Kevin: but was the wine organic, 

Megan: right?

Oh, no. I sold organic wine, the mo, the year before I [00:41:00] actually quit drinking. I was like, I took pictures with the organic wine and I really believed that it was healthier. Like I just like still ethanol. But 

Kevin: yeah, the grapes were healthier, but it's still the alcohol portion of that. The ethanol portion of that is, is the issue, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Megan: It's funny. Year can change your life. You can really change your life in a year. Six months. 

Emma: Something you both touched on as well is and that I'm big on is like, when people find out that you're acore and they're like, oh, so your drinking was pretty bad? Like, how bad was it? Like, how many were you drinking a night?

You had a problem and something I'm Yeah, you got a problem. How bad was your problem? Horror stories. Yeah. Yeah. But something I'm really big on as well is being like it's, that's not really the point. Like you said, it's not how much you're drinking. You could have one, one glass of alcohol a night, but then know that the impacts it's having on you are negative.

So you could be drinking within the, recommended daily intake or whatever it is of the, the, every country has different health recommendations of how [00:42:00] much alcohol is okay per day, per week, per gender. You could be drinking within that, but if you still feel like shit and if it's still, if it's having a negative impact on you or you feel like.

You struggle to stay within those limits, then let's address your relationship with alcohol. Yeah, don't compare yourself to me. And I think I did that a lot with I'm drinking just as much as my friends and they're okay. So I'm fine. I don't have a problem. But my problem was my mental health was in the gutter.

That's what the problem was. Whether I was drinking excessively or within healthy guidelines, it was the impact that it was having on me. Was the problem, was the issue that needed fixing or helping or addressing. 

Kevin: Absolutely. I think we might say that too. 'cause I was drinking just as much as the people I was around as well.

Then I also went home and kept drinking, guessing a lot of those people. Probably didn't like, it's all those, it's not apples to apples kind of comparisons when we do that thing. And, maybe I have, again, all of the factors that come into [00:43:00] it. How long have I been drinking this way?

How much, any other issues I'm having in my body versus them and all of that. You can't compare. Comparison is the thief of joy and you never win when you do that.

Emma: And you don't know that your friends that you're drinking the same as you don't know that they're not battling with their mental health as well.

Yeah. That they don't have sky high cholesterol because they haven't disclosed that to you. So you can't be like, they're okay because you dunno that. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Person is the thi of joy. 

Megan: Yeah. 

Emma: You 

Megan: gotta, yeah. That is like the crazy thing. 'cause it's like any given group of friends, say you're, you have five friends and you guys are all drinking together and then everybody goes home.

Like the odds that many. A couple of them at least, are continuing it on, or at least like waking up the next morning or later the night and being like, oh, what did I do? And having that negative self-talk and just beating themself up, but no one talks about it. It's like you're all in like home, in your own bed, but then the next day people see each other.

They're like, Hey, great time [00:44:00] last night. It's no one's talking about it because of the shame and that, it we're just not handling it. And there's something wrong with us because we're this like weak one and everybody else drinks without any repercussions when it's just not, everybody drinks has some type of negative, feeling from it.

Whether it is just like a hangover or feeling, tired the next day and it's just not talked about. So there's nothing wrong with you, or us or any of us here. It's doing what it's supposed to do. Get us hooked and, 

Emma: yeah. That's and that's, yeah, like people often you'll hear people say, oh, I just wanna drink normally.

I'm like, but I think we, the three of us are drinking normally because alcohol is a drug. It is addictive. Our bodies are not designed to be able to tolerate it and handle it. So there is really no normal drinking. Our bodies are doing exactly what they're designed to do when this addictive [00:45:00] substance is introduced.

I can't remember where I was going with that other than that Emma's brain went on a tangent. But yeah, there's no, it's, our bodies are responding exactly how they're supposed to, to an addictive substance. And we are not weird. We're not strange, we're not broken. We're perfect human beings.

Megan: Yep, yep. Absolutely

Kevin: We can jump around wherever you want. Just a question here on, do we have any tips for someone who's sober curious, or looking at, seeing your page or, seeing this and Okay, but where do I start?

How That's great. Glad you guys figured it out. I'm glad you know that. But how do I. Where do I start? If I'm scared of missing out or I'm scared of that, we just talked about that friend group, right? And that's a big thing. Okay, what were the average of the five people that we hang out with?

There's things like that. [00:46:00] But chances are, if I'm drinking a lot, then my friends are probably also drinking as well. I'll say. And that can be, oh, what are they going, what are they going to say? How are they going to handle it? What am I gonna be kicked out of the, kicked outta the pack type of thing.

But they gonna judge me, how do we, where do we start? 

Megan: Yeah, those are all really great questions and things that come up so often and really hold people back from pursuing this. So I would say to continue, get curious, I guess that is what sober curiosity is, but follow that and really start leaning into it.

If you're not already, listening to podcasts like this, reading the books and probably the thing that's gonna speed everything up the most is to join a community and to not do it alone and to start talking about it in safe places and start peeling away those layers. Because there's something there if you are, think if you're curious about it or you're really questioning whether you're, [00:47:00] you have a problem or not, whether you're an alcoholic, whether you need to quit whatever you're questioning, listen to that, i. And what else could there be? I don't know. I just really think joining community is something that, I've had so many, women join where they're just like, they are sober, curious. They have no idea what they're getting into. They just know they've done that. They're hate drinking, they don't like the way it makes them feel.

And this is like their first stop, and then all of a sudden they're like, whoa, wow, this is, they start just like on the self-discovery and it's amazing and it's scary and it's amazing. More amazing at the same time, so yeah, I guess that would be like tips to start if someone's questioning it and tell somebody, tell a trusted person.

Whether you message one of us on Instagram and you just say, oh, I think I, what do I do? I think I, might have a drinking problem. Just doing that right there. You're gonna feel like one of those bricks on that backpack that you're carrying. It's gonna lighten the load and the more you talk about it, start like actually saying the stuff out loud and [00:48:00] not just.

Negative self-talk in your head, you're gonna start to heal and you're gonna start to feel better. 

Emma: Yeah. Yeah. I think, like I know for me, so my two neighbors are my ride or dies. We're all the same age. We've got kids at the same age, they've gotta school together. And so since we moved into the neighborhood when my youngest was a few weeks old we've connected and they were my drinking pals for sure every Friday night because we didn't have to drive anywhere.

So we would go to one of the neighbor's houses and just get and go for it because no one had to drive anywhere. And when I started getting sober, I, I made a really good point of, to them and to my husband this is for me, this is my journey. I'm doing this for me. I don't expect you to change your behavior in any way.

You keep doing, you and I'll watch myself. But it did mean that I did have to withdraw from that friend group a little bit, whether that was, and it wasn't necessarily always conscious that I was doing it, but I definitely didn't do the Friday night potluck dinners with all the drinking as much.

And I retreated a little bit [00:49:00] and it's taken at least a year, I would say, for me to start. Like I feel like I'm back in there now coming up two years now. But it was definitely hard. And it's not that they didn't support me, they absolutely support me a hundred percent because they want me to get better or wanted me to get better.

But it was, but I think that, your true friends and your good friends, the ones that support you are the ones that are going to allow you to retreat and do what you need to do, but then accept you straight back in and not. Shame you or question you or yeah, I don't think any of either of those, this group of friends ever said, oh, just have just one.

I don't, I think they really fully respected that I needed to do this. And I think that's important. Like those really true, solid friends are going to accept whatever path you take, whether it's alcohol free, whether it's, going vegan, whether it's [00:50:00] turning into a marathon runner, whether it's, whatever path you choose to take, whatever change you make in your lifestyle, those really good ride or die true friends are gonna go, okay.

Let's see where this goes. But it's, but it can be really hard to that change, to do something different, to break away from the pack. For sure. 

Megan: Yeah. And that's great. Whenever, answer that part of your question when you asked that. Sorry. Yeah, like I, and the only thing I'll just say to that too is if you lose a couple friends or things, people who you thought were your friends, you're gonna gain, if you put yourself out there and you join community and you start talking about it, you're gonna gain.

Really amazing people in your life that you otherwise would've never met had you not really taken a look at this. So yeah, it's scary for sure to change and to think, wow, people, maybe I might lose these friends or these friendships, but sometimes you realize they were really surface level and they were just drinking buddies and now you really get to make deeper friends, quality over quantity.

You might lose a [00:51:00] couple, but you're gonna have hopefully some really solid friends, and just like you said, pay attention if they're not supportive or they're trying to encourage you to drink, a lot of times it's like looking in, in a mirror themselves and gotta just follow your own intuition and what you're feeling.

Kevin: Yeah. And you mentioned yeah, it's super curious. So getting curious about what alcohol's doing in general, I think is big. You mentioned about like creating the Instagram page or whatever and. I'll just, I just want to add in you don't have to create the Insta Instagram page and start sharing your face and your name and, sharing all, making all the posts and stuff.

Like, whenever I first started mine, I was just putting pictures out there and I didn't follow anybody and nobody followed me. It was just, it was a picture gallery for me. Yeah. To keep myself accountable, to put some stuff out there. Like I would 'cause when I was doing it too, I would put my day count on and then that was one picture a day, and [00:52:00] then I took a picture, from the day and put it on there.

And then I would find something funny that I saw, or something that was meaningful to me and put it on. So I put three pictures each day, but then I started following people. I was private and it was almost like curating what I wanted to see versus my other page that I already had that as I shared before.

It was full of. Coffee, alcohol and barbecue was like the, any pictures that are on there are related to that pretty much. It's like whatever, but whatever my personal page was is very different than that first curated I'm following these people because I wanna see what they're doing, like what they're saying, and have that almost like safe space to see that.

And it's similar to if you sign up with, on your platform, if you sign up for Reframe and just open the door and get curious about what it could be, what it could be doing to us mentally, physically, whatever. And just look for other [00:53:00] options, but put it out there and, it doesn't have to, one of the, one of the biggest hurdles for me was like I.

And the reason it held me back too, from doing things sooner was if I have a problem, then I have to just stop, but I'm not gonna stop. Yeah, I'll stop for a little bit, but I'm, I'll eventually I'll go back and I'll just be able to moderate. 

Megan: Yeah, 

Kevin: so putting, putting in like a shorter term on it too.

It doesn't have to be forever. You can try things little by little just to put, dip your toe in and do a dry January, do a dry weekend. Like it doesn't have to be, 31 days either. And if you're not successful, one day keep going with it, go back the next and just, keep it going.

Don't say I did, this is me being hypocritical from my old ways. Oh. From day four I drank. Looks like this month's over, I'll try again next month. It's no, go back on the sixth, you're fine.

Megan: Absolutely. But 

Kevin: yeah, get curious and yeah, just. Learn. 

Emma: Yeah. And get curious about how it feels. Give it, yeah.

Give [00:54:00] up for a weekend or give up for a week or a month. And how does it, how do you genuinely feel really get in touch with your body? Are you feeling more energized? Are you sleeping better? Are you, has your skin cleared out? Are you, have you lost a little weight? Are you a little less fluffy on the, around the edges and really what would drinking again, give you, that you're missing out on right now?

Or what would drinking give you that or what have you gained from not drinking Get really, because it's about you, like we've said, it's not about comparing yourself with anyone else. It's about really digging into you and how you feel. 

Megan: Absolutely. Yeah. And thinking about why do we keep going back or what is drawing us in, because usually when we keep going back to drinking, we think it's giving us something, some benefit, whether it is we think it's stress relief or we think it's helping us sleep, or coming to what is it?

Is it the fun aspect? And then diving deeper into that and which, I love that you mentioned journaling a couple times, Kevin, and I think that [00:55:00] is really helpful. So journal, is for 30 days make that commitment and try to, when you're taking your break from alcohol and just be journaling, what does it feel like if you did drink, all of that.

And just researching it. And hopefully it'll lead you to, a longer term sobriety. Maybe not forever. I don't even really say forever. I just, that's, so overwhelming. I'm just thinking about right now, and I know not today and I'm not tomorrow or anytime in the near future, but. Yeah. 

Kevin: Yeah. My brain likes my, my out.

When I say, I don't, because I don't like forever either. I don't like, I don't like such absolute all the absolutes and I'm like, I don't know what I'm gonna feel like when I'm 70 or 80 years old. Maybe I get to 80 and I'll just be like, screw it. I don't plan on that today.

I'm 45. I, I don't care. I can say that and be comfortable saying that and not worry about it because guess what? I'm 45, I'm not 80. So if I'm 79 and I'm [00:56:00] saying that, then okay, maybe I'll be like, alright, maybe I should let's revisit when I'm 90. I don't give a shit what I think,

but coming to terms with it, I think in our own way, some people are like, Nope, never gonna do it again. That's great. If you can say that and you feel comfortable with that, but you don't have to. That's always the point that I 

Emma: Yeah. 

Kevin: To emphasize.

Megan: Yeah. 

Emma: Absolutely. Yeah. I like forever for now. That's my approach to alcohol. I think, my sobriety is forever for now, but I don't know what's in the future for me. But for now it feels like forever. But yeah, let's not make it an absolute forever. There's, yeah, it is what it's, I think that would 

Megan: make it tougher on me.

Yeah.

Emma: So what's next for Sober Sisters? Is there anything exciting on the horizon? Good 

Megan: question. More retreats. I'm working on it. I definitely wanna do another US one. I did one in Vermont last spring. That was awesome. It was, I got to drive three hours to it and it was really [00:57:00] cool to not have to go 30 hours across the world.

So I'll be doing Bali again next April. So I, it's turned that into an annual thing every April. 

Emma: Oh 

Megan: yeah. And we still have like our empowerment club where we meet seven days a week and it's just a really great place. Women only in it. No offense to men, but, it's just what it is.

What was, yeah, 

Emma: sorry, what was the reason? I'm just curious. Was there a reason you feel like you could support women better or you feel like there's a better, bigger need for women to have this group or? 

Megan: Yeah, I feel 'cause I've been in groups too that are like men and women, so I feel like it's just like a little bit different dynamic.

And the topics that you can talk about. And I knew that's. That was me. And so that, I was helping what, who I used to be type of thing. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. There really wasn't like a conscious, no men allowed or anything like, yeah, no, it just, yeah, that was what, it just started when I started doing like the Zoom meetings and I guess it being so BAAs like being like, yeah, I'll get messages and they'll be guys and they'll be like, you have [00:58:00] brothers in there, sober brothers.

And I'm like, right now it's, and then I'll just send them to a group that I know, has men and women or just men or things like that. Yeah. So women's only really small, smaller group groups. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Kevin: It is different. 'cause I just, right before this, I just had the men's meeting community meeting on reframe and yeah, it's definitely a different dynamic.

I love that meeting because it's, even in we have meetings that are at the same time. Women's only meeting was going on, but we also have mixed meetings, co-ed, whatever you wanna call it. And it's just different dynamic. And I know in the men's meeting, I know guys feel a lot more comfortable being vulnerable when it's just a smaller group of men. And it does change the dynamic, I feel.

Megan: Yep. 

Kevin: On, on, I see it on this end. Yeah, it would be definitely different.

Megan: And I think they're all good too, though. 'cause even having meetings with men and women Yeah. Those are really, they like, I feel like we learned things from each other, especially when it comes to relationships or, as far as like the drinking and things like that.

I know we've, I've learned a lot in [00:59:00] some of those meetings too, so it's eh, there's something for everyone. And that's why we're so lucky these days to have all these different options, that are really like refine down to more of who we are and things like that. So yeah.

Yeah. But that's, I'd say that's what I'm up, that's what I'm up to. Just going along with the community and just still working in the er, just being a mom and yeah. Seeing what, what else happens. I'm not sure what the future will hold, but yeah, I'm having a fun, fun ride doing it. I love that.

That's exciting. Yep.

Kevin: So I guess one, one last question before we wrap it up. If you could wave a magic wand and change one thing about how society views alcohol, what would it be? I feel like we touched on this a little bit, especially, the fun aspect and all that, but what would you say. 

Megan: Yeah, on how we view like my first like instinct is to be like, I just wish it wasn't, never became a thing, because, but yeah, I guess that we needed to have fun and that, that it's, this false feeling that it's a connector, that it helps us [01:00:00] to connect with people when it doesn't, if anything it's, it does the opposite.

And alcohol just, numbs us out. And when we have friendships and relationships that are built without it. Your connection's just gonna be a million times better. And another thing too, that you can still have fun without it. You can vacation. You can have, just live your best life without it.

And that it's not adding any value. I just wish everybody knew that. And just really the poison and the destruction that it really causes. I could list a million things too. I wish, society knows. And I think we're turning a corner on that and people are waking up and they're realizing it's not all it's cracked up to be and that we've all been fooled and they've spent millions and millions of dollars trying to suck us all in.

So yeah, that's probably in a nutshell, I guess what I would hope. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, there's so many.

Emma: It's like we're in the age of enlightenment. I [01:01:00] think every now and then, like every probably every couple of months the media in New Zealand, like the national newspapers will do an article on like how alcohol sales are dropping and and this, the next generation coming through aren't drinking as much.

I'm like, yes, we're doing it. We're getting there. 

Kevin: And yeah, I think you can look back at like smoking, right? Yeah. Back in the fifties. I've seen the magazine ads with the doctor sitting there. Like, I prefer camel's because they're the, you know, it was like a vitamin cigarettes.

That is that's what it appeared to be because, it just was so socially acceptable. And then the more and more information that came out, the more things that went in place then yeah, that's changed. 

Megan: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, one other thing too, I just remembered that I'm work that I was a part of that kind of answers your question of society and like what I wish they knew about alcohol and I was part of this documentary, it's not coming out until the end of 2025.

We recorded it this past September. But it's all about that. It's like going deep into like [01:02:00] where did it become that we needed it to have fun? Where, how did it start infiltrating into play dates and baby showers and just every little, yoga studios and w where it all, where that all came from and all those beliefs.

So that should be coming out hopefully at the end of this year. So really excited. I think that's gonna be absolutely incredible. They got a bunch of different people too that were interviewed. So when I was in. Reno for when I was getting the best sober community at Ward that I was asked to be a part of that and they got to video it all and it was really cool.

So I haven't seen any of the footage, so I'm really psyched about that coming out. 

Emma: That's cool. Yeah. When, at what point did baby showers need alcohol? It's nuts. I dunno. Is that a thing in America? You like, oh yeah. Have champagne at a baby shower. So the poor pregnant woman's not drinking and everyone else is getting plastered.

Yeah. That's there. Yeah. 

Megan: My gym literally has a full bar in it. Wow.

Kevin: Do they have NA options? 

Megan: I don't even [01:03:00] know. I don't even have you 

Kevin: got, have you gotten them to put in some uh, NAs in. 

Megan: There's always like one person sitting at the bar, and I'm like, wow. That's interesting. I did 

Kevin: that. I, Jim, I had, I went to a while back, they had something like that and yeah, I was like, we would go play, I go play racquetball and end up with a beer in my hand at the end of it because I earned it. Or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even think I cared. I didn't have to justify it, I don't think at that time I was just like, Nope, we're doing this, and then we're doing that. 

Emma: Oh my gosh. That's, I remember running a half marathon and then it being afterwards being like, I can drink this many champagne.

Kevin: Oh yeah. 

Emma: What the hell, Emma? 

Kevin: The best thing I've ever, what, probably the best thing I ever drank in my life was the chocolate milk at the end of the, my, my one marathon I ran, but they gave us chocolate milk and you would've thought it was, I was in the desert for ages, because that sounds disgusting.

Oh, it was so good. I oh I wouldn't think so either. I'm lactose intolerant. I drank like three of 'em because I was [01:04:00] like, this is so my mind. I need, I don't know if there's salt in there too, but sugar, all of that. Yeah. That's funny. The best chocolate milk ever

Megan: at the end of a running a marathon.

Oh, there was 

Kevin: a ticket too, I think for a beer. So there was that.

Megan: But 

Emma: Alrighty. So now's, now it's time for Al. What did you learn this week? A little nugget. Something completely off topic. Could be completely off topic. Sometimes it's on topic like I was today years old when I learned kind of thing.

Kevin, your nugget. 

Kevin: Oh, I get to go first. What did you learn? You get to 

Emma: go first. 

Kevin: So I was this week. Years old. That the s old way to say that. Yeah. Alright. This week I, how about this week I learned that I am never gonna take a red eye flight again if I can help it. And I say this knowing full well that my five hour red eye flight from Seattle to Cleveland is nothing compared to Emma's 20, 27 

Emma: hours, 

Kevin: [01:05:00] 27 hour journey back to New Zealand.

But yeah, that was awful. I cannot sleep. And yeah, I could not sleep sitting up on a plane and Monday I was just a wreck. I came home and immediately just went to bed. I crashed 'cause it was, yeah. That, that, that's never gonna happen again. And I feel like there's a nugget here about.

I, I learned that Emma can fill a suitcase with candy t-shirts and sweatshirts like a champ.

Emma: Like a champ backpack, actually, lots of 

Kevin: candy. 

Emma: We had to, I had to buy another bag in LA because we paid a hundred dollars per suitcase excess from Montana to la. We had so much extra candy and toys and crap for the kids.

So we paid between the three of us, there were three of us traveling together. So we, yeah, 300 US for excess. And so then we bought an extra bag in LA to pack full of candy. [01:06:00] Yeah. I hosted daily years old where I learned excess baggage is expensive. But also if you wake up at 3:00 AM to catch a flight and you have 26, 27 hours of travel, you.

It doesn't matter whether you can or can't sleep on a plane, your body just doesn't let you be conscious anymore. You'll just pass out on that airplane and skip dinner. So yeah, I'm looking forward to Kevin's red eye flight to New Zealand. That'll be great. 

Kevin: Yeah. Hey, if it's international, I ex I fully expect that I flew to India decade, two decades ago at this point.

Yeah, that was a, those were long flights. I slept well. Emma, your nugget. 

Emma: My nugget is if you know me well enough, you know that I love coffee and you know that I think American coffee is shit. But this week or the past couple of weeks, I learned that water quality is what makes the difference.

Water quality in Texas, terrible coffee, terrible [01:07:00] water quality in Montana. Beautiful, natural, just pure water, coffee quality. Great. Like New Zealand quality coffee. So it's America, your water is broken. 

Megan: You should fix that. 

Emma: Kevin, that's your new job. 

Kevin: Fix the 

Emma: water. 

Kevin: I'm lazy and I'm fine. I'm fine with the coffee.

Emma: But the coffee was better in Montana, right? 

Kevin: It was the same for me. It was not 

Emma: the city. Maybe the, you call it, it was same. Maybe your water in your hometown is, I was gonna say Cleveland. 

Kevin: Cleveland, yeah. Cleveland area. Yeah, 

Emma: maybe it's okay 

Kevin: there. It was in Dallas though for me too.

So maybe it's 

Emma: terrible. And tell us. Wash your mouth out. 

Kevin: Megan, how about you? 

Megan: So many things going through my mind right now. And this is nothing I guess that I really learned this week, but that I just thought of. We're talking about the thing, your nuggets from the week. That coffee and Bali was not the coffee.

Bali coffee they call it was [01:08:00] not great. And so I would bring these, the little folgers packets, like they were like a tea bag, but coffee. And so I had, they're so good. Yeah, I started bringing those and making my own coffee in Bali because I am such a coffee person, so I don't even know why I just thought of that.

But then the other thing as far as airplanes, so I have this fear that, so I wouldn't use airplane bathrooms and. Because I really thought that if I went in there, I'd get sucked out the toilet. So I would not, the first time I went to Bali on one of the flights was 14 hours. I did not get up once. I did not go to the bathroom for that entire flight.

And and so this the second time I went. I was like, you know what? I can do it. If I cannot drink, I can use the bathroom, the toilet on an airplane. And I did it, and I overcame that fear. And it's not that scary. And I was like, wow, man, I've been missing out this whole time. I've been torturing myself there thinking that [01:09:00] I was gonna get sucked out the bathroom toilet.

That's just how my crazy brain works. But 

Emma: yeah, they're so noisy though, right? Those airplane toilets. 

Megan: Yeah. I wouldn't even lock it. I'd be like, oh my God, if I did go, and then now I'm like, I'm in there like doing all my in there for minutes, it's yes, this is the life.

So 

Kevin: I didn't lock it. If I get sucked out, you're all coming with me.

Megan: Oh my gosh. 

Emma: Yeah. Airplane toilet to 

Megan: or outhouse is at my son's lacrosse game, I had to go again and I was like, we're like, we still have two quarters left. I'm not gonna make it. And I have this fear again of outhouses something with bathrooms, public bathrooms. No. And I was like I'm gonna do it.

I'm, I overcame the plane. I did it on an airplane. Now I can just go in here real quick. And so I did it, but I was in and out in 15 seconds. My son, my 10-year-old was like, you didn't go. And I was like, oh no, I didn't. It was like the fastest, like in and out, barely had my pants up and I was like, get me outta here.

Yeah. Claustrophobic. 

Kevin: [01:10:00] It was, that's, 

Megan: I have a fear that's someone's gonna chip it over. 

Kevin: Oh yeah. That's two different things though. The port of the Porto Johns, the porta-potties, the what? Outhouses whatever. That's just disgusting period. Whereas the. Plane at least. I like to think that they, as they go through and clean after the last people went through that they at least wipe that down a little bit.

It's probably clean 

Emma: But it's 

Kevin: a whole different thing about getting sucked out 

Emma: there is I must say there is a, like a long drop or a Yeah, a long drop at the thousand buts in Montana in Missoula. So Kevin, you missed it. Our little excursion to a thousand buts. And it is one of the best long drops I've ever been to.

It was quite a pleasant experience and as far as long drops go, so long drop. Long drop. Oh our house. Let's go back to 

Kevin: episode one or two of this season where we talked heavily about long drops deep into 

Emma: Emma's toileting experiences. So it's so when you go camping in New Zealand, if you are like freedom camping you'll dig just a big hole in the ground.

And if you're [01:11:00] lucky, you'll have a toilet seat propped on top of it. So it's a little bit luxurious, but it's just a big called the garage in

Kevin: a, you open a door and you go in, like here with the Port of John's, right? 

Emma: No.

Kevin: I thought the one that you did that's what it was, but 

Emma: Oh, the one when we went camping, it was like a little pup tent.

Like a little tent that you put up with a little zipper door thing. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, it's like a little tent. So you've got a little bit of privacy, so you're not just pooping in the wild with people watching you. Although that's also a thing can be behind the tree. Yeah. Yeah. But no, in Montana it was like a, it was a proper like.

There were four walls and a door and a lock and a little seat toilet, but it was a long drop. But it was quite, yeah, just a hole on the ground. It was quite pleasant. It was a very deep hole. So that's good. We like a deep hole with our long drops.

Kevin: This is just getting worse and getting 

Emma: worse.

Emma, stop. So yeah, left some DNA in Montana. No.

[01:12:00] Alright, Kevin, you should wrap us up before this gets worse. 

Kevin: Any other, I think, feel like we should change? I feel like we should change the nugget terminology at the end of that, but, okay. But no, Megan, if you, before we wrap this up, if you'd like to share and we'll put this in the show notes too if you'd like to share where people can find you, anything that you want to give a shout out to or talk about, things that are coming up for you.

Go ahead. 

Megan: Okay. Yes, you can find me at soasta on Instagram. So send me a message. If you listen to this episode, I'd love to hear about it. Or go to my website, soas.com and you can check out all the different ways you can, come on a retreat or just get involved with Sobah Sistahs. Yeah. 

Kevin: Thank you for sharing that.

Thank you all for listening to another episode of the re frameable podcast, brought to you by the Reframe app.

Reframe is the number one iOS and Android app to help you cut back or quit drinking alcohol. It uses [01:13:00] neuroscience to reframe your relationship with alcohol and unlock the healthiest, happiest you. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe and share with those that you feel may benefit from it.

And I wanna thank you again for listening and be sure to come back for another episode. Have a great day.