101 - Designing Winning Retention Strategies - Kristen Gray Psychas

Unlock the secrets to thriving in customer success and the nuanced craft of cross-selling with the insightful Kristen Gray Psychas from Banzai. In our latest episode, Kristen, a trailblazer in the customer success landscape, offers a treasure trove of strategies that promise to elevate your career trajectory. Her transition from international relations to influencing the growth of a publicly-traded tech giant is nothing short of remarkable. But it's her candid sharing of how she navigates professional waters as a neurodivergent individual and new mother that truly enriches this conversation. This is more than just a lesson in business - it's a heartening glimpse into personal triumph and growth.

Prepare to be inspired as we discuss the pivotal role of understanding customer goals and the transformative power of effective communication for fostering long-term relationships. Kristen's expertise shines as she reveals how kickoff and QBR meetings can become a goldmine for identifying expansion opportunities within your current customer base. We delve into the synergy between customer success and sales strategies, highlighting how transparency with clients can lead to prosperous upsells and cross-sells. Moreover, Kristen's perspective on embracing neurodiversity offers a fresh lens on collaboration, showing us how diverse minds can propel innovation and strengthen team dynamics. Join us for an episode that's as enlightening as it is empowering, charting a path for professional excellence and inclusive teamwork.

Follow Kristen Gray Psychas!


This episode is proudly brought to you by Vitally.io, the leading all-in-one customer success platform. Visit vitally.io/women today to schedule your demo and get your Airpods.

__________________________________________________
About Women in Customer Success Podcast:

Women in Customer Success Podcast is the first women-only podcast for Customer Success professionals, where remarkable ladies of Customer Success connect, inspire and champion each other.

Follow:

Women in Customer Success

- Website - womenincs.co

- LinkedIn - linkedin.com/company/womenincs

- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womenincs.co/

- Podcast page - womenincs.co/podcast

- Sign Up for PowerUp Tribe - womenincs.co/powerup

Host Marija Skobe-Pilley

- Website - https://www.marijaskobepilley.com/

- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mspilley/

- Coaching with Marija: http://marijaskobepilley.com/programs

- Get a FREE '9 Habits of Successful CSMs' guide https://www.marijaskobepilley.com/9-habits-freebie

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

In this episode I'm talking to Christine Grey-Sikers, senior Customer Success Manager at Banzai. She's a double recipient of the Success Hacker Top 100 Customer Success Strategies Award. She also has a prominent LinkedIn presence, as she received multiple badges for her article contributions in both customer retention and customer relations. So currently, christine is leading customer success at Banzai, a marketing company that acquires additional technologies in their suite. So Christine is becoming a rising voice in cross-selling techniques, and that's exactly what this episode is most about. We're going to share some tips and strategies on executing expansion techniques to grow in your role, to grow revenue resources and your positioning as well. So keep with us until the end, because there is something interesting coming up as well. Christine is sharing her experience of being a neurodivergent person. What does that mean and how can you best support and work with neurodivergent people around you? Stay with us until the end to find out.

Speaker 1: 1:16

Hi everyone, this is Marius Kovepile and you're listening to Women in Customer Success Podcast, the first women-only podcast where remarkable ladies of customer success share their stories and practical tools to help you succeed and make an impact. If you want to learn more about customer success, get career advice and be inspired, you're in the right place, so let's tune in. Hello, hello, welcome to the new episode of the Women in Customer Success Podcast. I am so, so, so thrilled to welcome my guest today. She is KGP, or very much well-known as Christine Gay-Sikers. Christine, I've been waiting for this for a long time. Finally, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Thank you so much, Ria. I loved our recent. We did something recently together and I've just been itching to get back on a conversation with you, so I couldn't be more thrilled to be here. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 2:22

Kristen, I could introduce you in many different ways as being one of the top 100 customer success strategies, like one of the many top leaders in customer success, doing so many different types of roles in customer success, from individual contributor to leader. What do you do today? Where are you at? What was your like to say?

Speaker 2: 2:44

Yeah. So today I have the amazing privilege to be part of the Bonsai team. We recently became publicly traded, so I got to join the team on the NASDAQ floor in December at the end of the year.

Speaker 2: 2:57

Congrats, thank you, congrats. So it's the first time that I've been part of a startup journey to emerge as a public company and leading the customer success initiative there, so really thrilled and feel very honored to be part of that leg of their journey. I've been there for a short time, so to be included in an event like that was really incredible.

Speaker 1: 3:19

Must be exhilarating. And also, I don't know if I'm allowed to say, but I would just like to say congratulations as well on your expecting your first child. Thank you. That is so awesome.

Speaker 2: 3:30

Thank you. You know, things come together suddenly sometimes and goodness I just I couldn't be more grateful to be embarking on parenthood with my spouse. We've been really trying for a long time and you know no one's I know we were chatting a little bit in the room earlier. No one's path to parenthood is easy and there's so many ways today to become a parent, but we're so excited to be welcoming our first in May.

Speaker 1: 3:56

Well, I'm so excited for you for in that area as well. Let's go through some quick rapid fire questions. Tell me about yourself as a 16 year old. You would, a 16 year old Kristen, be surprised to find you in this current career? Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 4:12

You know advice that I was given by one of my uncles, actually years and years ago. He said Kristen you are, you don't even know the job that you're going to have. It probably doesn't even exist yet. And you know, I think that, if I do my math correctly, he was right, because I don't think customer success really emerged until. You know, I was out of college and had already begun my time at a four year university here in the States. So I would have been shocked. You know, at the time I was really passionate about international relations, which is what I went to college for, and I was very passionate about bridging gaps, about solving complex problems. So I suppose it makes sense that I wound up here, but could have never predicted, particularly because I'm a very analog type. In my all of my hobbies I have a record player, you know. I have a typewriter behind me. It's just. I love low tech life, but I believe that technology serves such, a such a miraculous service to us all and bridging gaps between cultures, communities and certainly businesses.

Speaker 1: 5:17

Okay, so now take us through that journey. You know from from your college day, from international relations to you entering customer success. How did that happen?

Speaker 2: 5:27

It's a bit of a weird story, as I'm sure everyone has, but right out of the college.

Speaker 1: 5:32

We love, we love all of those weird stories of entering CS world.

Speaker 2: 5:36

It's a weird one. So I, immediately out of college, I, during my four years at university, also minored in French, the French language. So I developed a really strong relationship with one of my mentors there in the in the foreign language department who helped me secure a job teaching English in France. So I did that for four years, working for the French Ministry of Education right out of right out of school. And family brought me home and I took what I thought would be a part time job running an anthropology store I'm not sure if there are any shoppers, wow. But I came home and it was kind of a quick pivot. But I loved business. I fell in love with Excel at that job. I loved calculating payroll and balancing the books and just knew that I had kind of found this niche that I really enjoyed. Like I loved the numbers, I loved the facts behind business. I'm running a store. It was really fun.

Speaker 2: 6:34

So I stayed there for much longer. It was intended to be a part time job. I stayed there for about four years and rose to management and it was actually around the time that my mom was diagnosed with cancer that I decided you know, it's time for me to take a step away. I was working weekends, I was working nights. It just wasn't a sustainable job to be able to show up for my family. So my mom who's a, you know, 20 year veteran in real estate, she encouraged me to get licensed in real estate. So I did and I took over her business while she was going through her chemotherapy journey. So still staying in the realm of business, but doing much more face to face, much more of a commercial conversation. That was great exposure as well.

Speaker 2: 7:14

That was short lived. Like I told you, I'm a very analog type. When I'm not on the clock, my phone is like on a special shelf. I don't love screen time when I'm not, when I don't have to be. So my time in real estate, my tenure there, was very short lived.

Speaker 2: 7:29

So I gave my hand at opening an online business. I started an apparel retail business called born of bad for a couple of years is all around women, women's empowerment and, you know, really focus, yes, I know. So that's where I headed next and I was seeking I was seeking a more stable opportunity. I didn't love being kind of that individual contractor setting my own hours. I wanted to focus my time away from work on creative projects that didn't necessarily make money. So that's actually how I found tech. I took my first job at a tech startup in Ann Arbor, michigan, a little startup called Nutshell. They've since been acquired by WebFX and there I started as a support agent, quickly, saw a lot of money leaving the business because of preventable reasons and tried my hand at developing my first customer success initiative and kind of. Here we are.

Speaker 1: 8:27

Wow, what a journey From real estate and online apparel shop. I mean that is wonderful. I would tell you like, do it again, can you do it again? Can you do some nice branding thrust, anyway. That now it's wonderful. It's really completely unconventional, very interesting, very wealthy in a way of different backgrounds and experience, different perspectives that you're bringing to the business.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Certainly, and since then I have gone through certified customer success training, of course, and I worked for several years at a leading customer success software company, so I was a CSM for CSMs. So I really feel like I got good exposure to once I found the customer success industry. I really kind of found my foot in the door of my career. You know, I tried a lot of different things but ultimately what I was looking for is a job that didn't feel taxing to me, that I was innately good at, and something that aided in that discovery was I participated in a Gallup Strength Finder test, like a self eval. There are a lot of different tests out there. That's the one that I did, but that was really helpful in kind of helping me identify what I just rolled out of bed and was good at, and those things were solving complex problems, asking discovery questions, being realistic about solutions, and that was customer success for me.

Speaker 1: 9:55

I love how you described it in so many ways because I also feel that I found my home in customer success. My previous background was music and education arts education completely different but you just mentioned so many different kind of behaviors and skills that you have to have in customer success and that can come from so many different backgrounds. That's why I just love all of that background diversity for customer success, because the wider range of experiences or different experiences you had before coming to the role like there is so much greater chance that you will excel because you innately can understand so many more people and work with different types of departments and people and customers. It's just what is needed. I'm happy that there is not yet MBA for only customer success. I know there is something, but not exact part yet, that everybody will start following. I think there is so much wealth in these diversities.

Speaker 2: 10:53

Absolutely, and I know you said rapid fire, we've gotten a little bit off of the topic. But as AI develops, I think that those differences really lend themselves beautifully to enriching customer retention strategies and customer success strategies. It's important to have those kinds of perspectives represented as AI steps in to fill a lot of the gaps of the repetitive work.

Speaker 1: 11:19

You mentioned some retention strategies. Actually, we can just go straight into that conversation. I know that you're working a lot on retention and upsells and acquisitions. What is on top of your mind for this year when it comes to main customer success strategies?

Speaker 2: 11:35

Great question With Banzai going public. The next steps are we're growing at a very rapid rate. Our research basically indicates that 60 to 70% of revenue in 2024 is going to come from an existing customer base. Regardless of where you're sitting and what kind of an organization you're currently at, this should be top of mind for a lot of folks. This year. We've all felt the softening of sales pipelines over the past few years, so really getting very scientific about expanding on existing customers into new buying centers has been really top of mind. So there's a lot of research around that. But that's kind of top of mind focus for me going into 2024.

Speaker 1: 12:24

Okay, I think it's time to go really tactical, because you know so much about it. So what would be your top three or top five upsell or cross-sell tactics as a CSN? What should people pay attention to?

Speaker 2: 12:38

Yes, Great question. So for me, it's always going to start with the job to be done. Essentially, if we're looking at the goals that businesses are aiming to achieve, research shows that we are seeing an drastic increase in tech buyers coming from non-technical roles. So, if you can picture it, those buyers are coming from a very use case-oriented perspective and they might be purchasing your solution to solve one problem, one use case, which leaves so much money on the table. So, tactically, I'm really excited right now about not only well, what I'm really excited about right now is delving into those introductory kickoff conversations and exploring all of the potential for serving or servicing the customer right through a product or service, because if we understand truly what their objectives are, then we can boil it down to products and solutions.

Speaker 2: 13:44

So I would say tactically, as a takeaway from anyone listening who says yes, cross-sell and upsell, my boss is talking about it or my CEO is talking about it. I'm not quite sure what that means. For me, kickoffs are a great place to start and really delve deep and be critical in asking follow-up questions, because those conversations can really help us gain access to other buying centers within a customer's organization. Qbr is another great example of when these conversations can happen, because we are getting that face time with customers. So those would be two times that. I would really encourage folks to be going deeper, you know, than originally scoped to better understand our customers, because there's a lot of expansion potential there.

Speaker 1: 14:33

I really like this point. I think we can dwell on it. Majority of the tech buyers are buying only for their use case, right? I think that's something that people can really contemplate on, meaning that almost everything that they learned previously about the main champion and how those stakeholders operate together in the organization, almost everything is just changing. So when you are in a situation of having a kickoff or QBR and trying to understand the customer what should be some examples or how do you even do it? To me it seems that there should be a lot of almost enabling of that technical buyer happening from a CS perspective, because very likely, as you said, if they are thinking of their use case, they are absolutely unaware what you have seen so far that your product can do for the rest of the organization. How do you enable?

Speaker 2: 15:29

them Absolutely. That's immediately after reading this research I was like we need better buyer enablement guides and helping us even navigate the competitive advantages. We're finding that over 60% of our customers are exploring competitors during the renewal process. So it's really developing the role that CSNs and customer success practitioners are sitting in, because there is so much more overlap today than ever before into sales and really understanding the competitive market.

Speaker 2: 16:07

But you asked for some questions that we can be asking at QBRs and kickoff calls. For me, that starts with business impact. So asking very high level, broad questions and allowing the customer to guide you through. I love those open-ended questions because if you start from business impact, that conversation can go wide and vast. The product I've been supporting over the past couple of months is called Demio. It's a webinar platform. As Thons Eye Grows, we're acquiring additional solutions that serve marketers. As I'm planning for this scale, really understanding the business impact that buyers at marketing in those marketing roles, what kind of business impact they're driving, is going to help me say, okay, great, what else in my suite do I have to offer you that might help solve this problem? Business impact then leads into strategic objectives and then we get into KPIs and goals. Those get the really good measurable stuff, but we need to be starting at a higher level than ever before, and it just requires a more informed CSP.

Speaker 1: 17:18

I love that. For me, that was always the basics for doing EBRs or QBRs right. Go really high, go broad. In my experience, oh my gosh, how much awesome conversations are, those open-ended questions, how many things you can find out about a company and the impact that your product can have. This is really wonderful. Wonderful tactics for not even enabling those buyers, because now we are flipping it around, we are talking about us understanding them better. At the end of the day, it seems that that's all about how much a customer success manager or practitioner can understand customer in order to position all the different sorts of the product 100%.

Speaker 2: 18:01

I think that big hurdles in entering new buying centers at existing customer organizations are you don't really have the credibility, you don't have that trust or that relationship built. Those new buying centers may deliberately want to defer and choose a different solution than the other department. There are a lot of factors going up against this kind of upsell or cross-sell initiative. I think understanding the business objectives and starting at a very high level and gathering that first-hand, those first-hand accounts of what kinds of pain points the organization is going through, help us to really curate the way that we are extending a hand to these new buying centers. It gives us, arms us with really powerful information.

Speaker 1: 18:53

Today's episode is brought to you by Vitaly, the all-in-one customer success platform. Take a qualified demo with the Vitaly team and get a free pair of AirPods. Vitaly maximizes the productivity, visibility and collaboration of your customer success team, helping to increase NRR and streamline operations. With Vitaly, your team can focus on the tasks and work that matter, while powerful automation takes care of the routine stuff. See why Vitaly is trusted by leading B2B customer success teams. Visit vitallyio slash women today to schedule your demo and get your AirPods.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Pain points Previously you mentioned the jobs to be done. I really like it because you're already equipping CSMs with basics elements of what is it that they have to know about customers. There are always certain knowledge, like what are their pain points right? What could be the impact of your products to their business, what is it that they are working towards, like, who are their customers right? And then you are going much more strategic into what can you do for them on a daily basis. So really, really, thank you. I appreciate you putting it so nicely to CSMs, because there are always so many things that they should or we all should know about our customers in order to position anything else. Okay, going back to those tactics for increasing upsells and cross-sells. So this was the first part, right? I think that's executive buy and how do we go about that relationship? What are the other strategies that worked?

Speaker 2: 20:32

well for you. So I'm going to actually lead with a challenge and then tell you about how I've solved for that. So another challenge that I've identified in this upsell cross-sell initiative has been a very pessimistic tech buyer. Oh yeah, the data shows that up to 80% of tech buyers experience buyer's remorse after following a tech purchase. And perhaps that is because we are, like our tech buyers are, coming from non-technical roles. I'm not sure exactly why, but the buyer's remorse is present and it is present throughout the duration of the partnership, even up until the renewal, which is leading to even more room for competitors to step in, kind of at the final hour, regardless of relationship or service.

Speaker 2: 21:20

So, tactically, I think there's a lot to be done around reassuring the buyer of what they have found and what they've purchased. I go back to my days in retail. Actually, I kind of pull from that tool belt and being at the register and validating the customer's purchase and telling them how wonderful the item was that they've selected and really just focusing there. And then, tactically, I think that throughout the onboarding process, focusing very early onboarding initiatives on those initial business objectives, those initial KPIs that the buyer approached us about, really making sure that they have self-reporting tools and ideally in the platform that they can be using to track on their own progress against their goals. But I think that occasionally we can get really excited in those kickoff conversations about all of the things that can be done and it's really critical that we solve the initial problem first before getting too expansive. These are really really lost at the renewal without that initial value being received. Buyer's remorse.

Speaker 1: 22:31

Oh my gosh, how important it is and how little CSMs are very, very often told about it. How little do we know and do we even think about it? When it is the first kickoff and we are all excited about the product, do we think about how the customer is feeling? I can say, even as a consumer, only I just love different apps. So whether it's for, let's say, podcast recording or editing or whatever else, I am also the one who will buy something and I'll just go and look for other things. And even in one individual, there is always that buyer's remorse present, just kind of almost having that fomo of what else is out there, because there are so many similar things. You don't want to miss it out. Yeah, this new tool is cool, but what about the other one? Perhaps your customers are feeling similar. Sometimes you just need to give them all that love and care in that first meeting.

Speaker 2: 23:23

So a few things about that too. That's so funny that you say that, maria, because they've studied this and it's actually a generational divide. Gen Z and millennials are not brand loyal. We want to know what is out there, the newest, the latest. So we have much less brand loyalty than Gen X and Baby Boomer consumers. So I think this is, as more folks enter those buying positions from younger generations, we're going to continue to see brand loyalty dissipate a bit. So I think that's a real like we need to be talking about that. You know what I mean. But yeah, it's just amazing how many folks experience that kind of remorse. That's actually impacting the experience in supporting these customers. So there's just so many things that we could be thinking about a little bit more thoughtfully as we're supporting our customers. Glad you mentioned brand loyalty.

Speaker 1: 24:20

So kind of, the younger your buyers are, there's higher likelihood that they are not going to stick with you next year. So bear that in mind, do you think we can have some solutions to prevent it? I'm just thinking. In a few of my previous roles we always tried really hard to start making customers like almost our brand advocates early on. So as soon as they landed, you started working with them. Give them opportunities to almost speak on your events, to showcase their expertise and almost build their personal brand in relation to your company brand. Because if they have a bit of a lack of brand loyalty with a reason at least, what we can do for them probably is increase their personal brand, because this is very important for Gen Z, right? Yeah, that's just the first thing that comes to mind. What I have observed previously.

Speaker 2: 25:16

I think that's valid. There is still a presence for influencer marketing for that. We love to hear from our friends about what's working, what's not, what they love, so there's definitely still a space for that. However, that might work really well for sales, for retention and renewals and upsell. Cross-sell word of mouth is actually not shown to be that effective, so I think that there is still space for that. But in going a level deeper, I think tactically I'm going to be honest In renewals and upsells that I've managed myself, I have been fearful to talk about competitors.

Speaker 2: 26:05

I am nervous that I will sound uninformed. I am nervous that my solution may not go head to head, like do well in a head to head, and I think it harms me or it has harmed me in the past. I think that as folks in IC roles are managing kind of those renewal discussions, we need to get very comfortable with being able to speak to the competitive advantages of our solutions and be unafraid to lean in when a customer mentions a competitor. I think that's a really strong way to kind of break down those barriers, those walls, and kind of make competition less taboo. I think it actually puts us in a stronger position to win more renewals, especially in the face of such a lack of brand loyalty.

Speaker 1: 26:57

Thanks for pointing that out. That's another thing that I'm seeing is not the top of mind for CSMs the competitive intelligence and knowing your competitors. I agree with you. If you know your competitors and you are even better in describing your advantage, that is awesome for the conversation Because again, you're almost neutralizing that buyers remorse. Ok, maybe at the beginning, but later on you're just having a conversation. Oh yes, I understand you're looking for this, our competitors have it, but this is how you could do it differently with us, or not even having it salesly, but just it is a. I think it's just such an awesome argument to have the proper conversations for customers.

Speaker 2: 27:42

They can just appreciate CSMs much more and trust them because they are not afraid of having those conversations 100% and it's hard I won't lie to constantly stay at the cutting edge of all of the developments of the market. It's a crowded market right now. Everyone is trying something different, so there are definitely challenges to that. But I think that's another area where AI tools can really lean in and help teams and certainly I see, identify those flags and know how to respond to them.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Definitely, kristen. I am so glad that you gave us so many tactics on increasing upsells and cross-sells and I would like to divert a little bit to another quick topic. But I want to ask you was there any other tactics that we might have missed? You already shared so much.

Speaker 2: 28:38

So the last one would just be be candid. I think that there is such a temptation these days to keep up appearances and I would just encourage everyone listening to be very candid about with customers in those conversations. Don't be fearful about taking deep. If you don't know the answers, it's okay, we'll find out, but those are really valuable learning opportunities to gather that kind of intel from our customers that will help us to indicate our next steps, you know, and help inform our playbooks to know how to mitigate risk, how to, you know, identify the different competitors that a customer might be looking at.

Speaker 1: 29:17

So I think the key to success there is just being unafraid, letting your guard down, not being afraid to look uninformed and really lean in Doing your homework but then just being comfortable, yeah, about being uncomfortable potentially, yeah, yeah, I wonder how comfortable have you always been in your career, because an interesting point that you made to me once was that you would identify yourself as newer diversion person, almost by definition being different. So tell me more about it. What does it even mean, how does it manifest with you and how did it impact your career so far? I think it's extraordinary to think about yourself as being different in such a way that it is really a strength, so that's something I applaud to you and I want to hear more about.

Speaker 2: 30:10

Definitely so. Thank you so much for asking. You know it's a. It can be a sensitive topic for a lot of folks to talk about, but it's one that I am. I try to remain very open about.

Speaker 2: 30:21

So you're absolutely right, I identify as neurodivergent. I am a person who lives on the autism spectrum. Being on the spectrum can look like a lot of different things. A lot of folks in like the 80s and 90s would have been diagnosed as having Asperger's, you know others having attention deficit, it's all spectrum. So there are a lot of, in my opinion and per per lots of scientific communities.

Speaker 2: 30:47

There is more than one correct way of being and I think being neurodivergent just proves that. You know I don't need to think or do as all of my other colleagues have always done and thought. So, yes, the I'm a neurodivergent person, identifying as being on the spectrum and I would say that no, to answer your question is not always been comfortable in tech. I spent a lot of years really struggling to navigate these systems that didn't seem built for me. I remember, you know, very early days in tech, tech support lines, just feeling so defeated like I couldn't do another day and had really wondered or worried. You know, do I regret this decision to enter the world or the realm of technology? It does not feel built for me and I'm so grateful for the empathetic humans that I had around me throughout those years to really help. You know, support me through those kinds of times of uncertainty and, of course, shout out. My therapist would not be able to do life without her.

Speaker 2: 31:55

But but yeah, I would say it was really really difficult. I am by nature a very direct person and that has not always been received well by my leaders, by my peers, and over time I have studied those patterns and learned how to show up in a way that does minimal harm, right. But it took time and patience and a lot of grace from the people around me to help build that skill set so that I have a little bit more confidence in knowing how to show up. So I would say it was very difficult to answer your first question. It's a little bit different now and how my neurodivergence impacts my career. Over the past few years I've been going through a bit of a journey of self acceptance and that has helped me arrive at this understanding that the ways that I am different are actually superpowers.

Speaker 1: 33:00

Yeah, I'm so glad I'm so glad to get into that it's.

Speaker 2: 33:05

You know it's a journey that I invite everyone to go on. I mentioned earlier taking those like work, personality or strength tests. You know, whatever those may be, I think all of those eval itself. Evals are so valuable and just better understanding yourself and the ways that you are different and the ways that you show up to work differently.

Speaker 2: 33:26

As an example, neurodivergence or those on the autism spectrum tend to have a method of bottom up thinking and what that means is you know you may walk into a busy restaurant and be like, okay, great, you know, I know where I'm at, I know what to do, whereas someone like me might walk into that same venue and hear all the noises, smell all the smells, feel distracted by the energies of everyone sitting around, notice who's looking at you.

Speaker 2: 33:55

It can be very overwhelming experience, but it's the opposite of top down thinking, of knowing okay, great, I'm at a restaurant, now, wonderful, I'm going to go up to the counter in order. Bottom up thinking I have found over time to be extremely valuable in assessing a customer strategy and identifying the gaps, and you've heard me talk about this at nutshell when I was in support and thinking we are losing money here. It's very bottom up and leaders love that about me because I bring a totally different perspective than they are able to see from the top down and say, yeah, that's a customer org or that's a retention department. So that is one example of one of the ways that I've been able to leverage that difference, and the confidence that I have around my neurodivergence is really what enables me to share those findings very confidently, because I know that it's different and I know that people might not be seeing things in the same way that I do.

Speaker 1: 34:56

I'm so pleased to hear that, just because, as you said, it wasn't always comfortable, but it is just amazing to leverage all the differences as strength in your role. I believe it should be mindset for everybody. Really try to celebrate every time you do things differently or things differently. Just try to really think of it as something in your advantage, without being apologetic that oh, I'm a bit different. Let's celebrate it. I'm just so happy that you're sharing this with us today and that you have embraced it for yourself. I'm really happy for you and I would like to just know, as we are wrapping up as well, given the experience that you have, how could people support neurodiverse and people around them?

Speaker 2: 35:46

Oh, what a wonderful question, you know. I think that I want to acknowledge first the support that you just showed me and, you know, kind of allowing this space to talk about it. I think that is a wonderful way to support your colleagues. Neurodivergent or not, we are all different, we are all coming from different experiences, and you know so I think that question asking and approaching scenarios with an open mind is always a great approach, and not assuming that there's a singular way to be, you know, especially at work, especially at work.

Speaker 1: 36:24

You know, I think let's have this thing. Kid, you said there is no a singular way to be it. This cannot be any more truth. No, no.

Speaker 2: 36:34

Thank you for sharing that, absolutely yeah, and you know, even Gardner Research indicates they've released their 2024 predictions. They predict that by 2027. Fortune 500 will be specifically recruiting for neurodivergent employees. As AI develops, those kinds of unique perspectives will serve really well to enriching business strategies. So, you know, it's really exciting to you know to be able to be vocal about this, because I know, for many who might be listening, or many in the past have perhaps felt the need to mask, you know, which we all do to a certain extent. But I just I think that we can all in being better co-workers or peers or friends to those who are neurodivergent, you know, just accepting that someone might not behave in exactly the way that you do, and that's okay.

Speaker 1: 37:33

That's not only okay, that is amazing, like thank. God that we are not all the same, let's embrace that. Oh, christin, I could talk to you forever and thank you so much for your time and for this conversation. As we wrap up, I obviously want to wish you all the congratulations for your upcoming parenting journey in human's time. I know you will still be, even before that, very active online and people can follow you. What is the best way for people to find you and just kind of absorb so many nudges of your wisdom?

Speaker 2: 38:09

Thank you so much, maria. It's been. Thank you so much for the platform. It's been wonderful to chat with you. I could go on for ages and ages, but yeah, for I know you and I will chat offline after this for anyone listening. Feel free to find me on LinkedIn. I'm very friendly. My inbox is usually I'm about a week behind, so apologies in advance, don't get a rapid response. However, I love engaging with our community, love hearing from people who are coming from different perspectives, diverse backgrounds. You know all of that is super interesting to me. So a warm invitation to those listening to connect.

Speaker 1: 38:42

It was a pleasure, christin. Thank you so much for coming to the show. Pleasure is online. Thank you for listening. Next week new episode. Subscribe to the podcast and connect with me on LinkedIn so you're up to date with all the new episodes and the content I'm curating for you. Have a great day and talk to you soon.