102 - Advancing Women in Tech - Elizabeth Italiano

In this episode, we join forces with Elizabeth Italiano, a Go-To-Market Expert and Founder of What Not To Do, to talk women in tech - challenges and solutions. 

Elisabeth's plentiful experience in the industry makes this episode a real conversational treasure chest. So, be prepared to get tons of insights on:
 
 

·       How to overcome the current challenges faced by women in tech

·       Why women need to be more assertive (and how to do it)

·       Negotiation skills women need to adopt

·       The significance of having go-to people/mentors

·       Predictions for trends in sales leadership

The episode is packed with actionable steps for women leaders - and everyone in between - to catalyse gender diversity in tech.

We round out the discussion with the need for self-advocacy with some great examples, emphasising that the common humility found in women needs to step back. Get ready to absorb the wisdom and become that advocate for change, setting a new standard for an inclusive and equitable tech environment. 

Join us, and let's move the needle together.

Follow Elizabeth Italiano!

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Did you know that women are more likely to be laid off in tech than men? In fact, women are 65% more likely than men to be impacted by layoffs in tech. Did you know that women are less likely to be promoted into leadership roles than men? Mckinsey report from 2022 found that only 52 women are promoted to manager for every 100 men across tech. Are you familiar with the pay gap? In 2022, women made 82% of men's salaries, with only 2% increase since 2002. If we go on and we speak about the overall venture capital, only 2% of overall funding is being raised for women-funded companies. And the list goes on. Whether it's promotion gap, equity gap, pay gap or pandemic gap, women are still in disadvantages position.

Speaker 1: 1:01

In today's episode, my guest is Elizabeth Italiano, go-to-market expert and founder of what Not To Do, but we are actually talking about what to do what to do to advance the positions of women in tech. We're talking about the state of gender diversity. We discussed the research stats about a disproportionate number of women to men in SAS roles and we are giving practical strategies of what you can do, what is in your control and what are the actions that you can take to advance the position of women. We all are aware that companies can do better, leaders can do better, environment and people and HR teams can do better to advance positions of women. Yes, they all can do it. But what can you do individually as a leader? What do you have direct control of and what can you influence?

Speaker 1: 2:00

I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I think it's really important, so let's get into it. Hi everyone, this is Marius Covepile and you're listening to Women in Customer Success Podcast, the first women-only podcast where remarkable ladies of customer success share their stories and practical tools to help you succeed and make an impact. If you want to learn more about customer success, get career advice and be inspired, you're in the right place, so let's tune in. Welcome to the new episode of Women in Customer Success Podcast. Happy 2024. I am really excited to introduce my new guest today. She is Elizabeth Italiano, go-to-market expert and the founder of what Not To Do. Well, elizabeth.

Speaker 2: 3:07

Thank you so much for having me Really excited to be here Long time listener, so happy to be a part of this episode today, elizabeth, did you have any new year's resolution or goal for this year? Yes, I have been wanting to revamp my website for a long time now, and that is my goal for the start of the year is to get that revamped and up and running. So it's a work in progress, aiming for February. We'll see. That's the goal, though.

Speaker 1: 3:35

Oh, that's great to know. We'll keep an eye, definitely, Elizabeth. Are you an introvert or an extrovert? What would you say?

Speaker 2: 3:42

I always describe myself as an introverted extrovert. I think the actual technical name is ambivert. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it, but I'm outgoing. I'm certainly not shy. I love talking and working with people, but I also crave alone time. I absolutely need alone time to recharge. And so when I read, I never felt I felt I sit in completely with introvert or with extrovert. And then I started reading these things about introverted extrovert and I'm like, ah, that's what I am.

Speaker 1: 4:12

Found my place Excellent so you had to change your career completely tomorrow. What would that be?

Speaker 2: 4:20

I think I could do something in health and it would probably be something geared towards athletic therapy or something more around proactive health. I'm really active, pretty health conscious, and I've learned a lot through my own athletic journey and injuries and that sort of thing and I just find it really fascinating. So, yeah, that would be what I would pivot to you if I had a do over.

Speaker 1: 4:47

Now I feel I want to pivot this episode. Well, not for real, but give me a few tips. Okay, what is your daily morning routine? When it comes to health and diet, what would you recommend?

Speaker 2: 4:59

Yeah, so I eat breakfast every day. I know that that is pretty common advice, but I think it's one of those things that it's really impactful for how you start your day, and when people, you know, skip breakfast and then they start, it's always something oh, you know, I get it now. So eating breakfast is one thing and getting your body moving, that is another thing. So, you know, an ideal morning for me is getting up, you know, 5, 5, 30, eating breakfast, having a little snuggle with my dogs while I get some work done, getting outside with them and then getting a workout in. So my favorite type of working out is running, you know. But whatever your, whatever your preference is, and that's that's my ideal morning.

Speaker 1: 5:44

So you know what I may need to research a bit more for my mornings, because I definitely don't do breakfast. I mean, I don't eat it. I tend to go out for walks and try to always get some some daylight. That's really I need to check out that, with food, like, I feel that I can't eat for a long time, but then very often I don't eat for hours because I forget. So thank you for the daily routine. Are you running that early in the morning.

Speaker 2: 6:13

Oh yes, I love writing in the morning. It's my favorite time and it just it gets. It sets the tone for the day, and I always start out listening to music when I'm running. But by the second, third song I don't even hear it, just because I get in. Either one of two things happen. It's either a meditative state where I'm just zoned out, or my creativity kicks in and I'm getting all these ideas. I don't know it's one extreme or the other, but for me it's just like the perfect way to start the day.

Speaker 1: 6:42

Oh, it absolutely is. I'm also a runner. I love it anytime in the day, maybe not five o'clock in the morning, but any other time of the day I'm completely up for it. So you never know, Once we see each other in person because we are currently on a different continent we should probably go for a run, and that would be a nice coffee date without coffee.

Speaker 2: 7:01

Yes, and then maybe breakfast.

Speaker 1: 7:05

Maybe that sounds really good. Elizabeth, you're a founder of what Not To Do. I think you're already giving me some nudges of how not to start your day, how to start it, how to tell it instead. Okay, tell me more. What is what Not To Do? So?

Speaker 2: 7:23

What Not To Do is my original consulting company that I had started a number of years ago. So I guess we're going back, you know, seven, eight years ago now, and one of the things that I really realized in terms of learning in my career growth is that I learned more from what Not To Do than I learned from what To Do. So there's pattern recognition. There's, you know, seeing the outcomes of mistakes and mistakes are good, you know, because you can learn from them. But really I found that you know, the more we share what Not To Do, the pitfalls to avoid those corners, to see around, you know that's really what's impactful. And so, you know, I decided, okay, that's going to be my brand what Not To Do, or WNTD for short.

Speaker 1: 8:10

I love it. Would you like to share three mistakes that you have done in your career that we shouldn't do?

Speaker 2: 8:18

Yes. So one of them I'll actually talk about one that I'm doing right now and I'm really trying hard to overcome is perfection over progress. So, as I mentioned, I've been wanting to redo my website for quite a while and I got to the point where, you know, and I had all of the I had a roadmap of what I wanted to have on the website when I revamped and then I realized I'm like, okay, I'm not going to get anywhere by chasing this. You know what I have as a perfect website in my mind, and so I'm like, okay, I'm going to pare back, create a roadmap, and there's going to be milestones that I'm going to meet, and so that's one of those things that's you know that I've lived and learned a number of times in various situations is progress over perfection and really figure out, you know, what is good enough.

Speaker 2: 9:08

The other mistake that I've made is, you know, earlier on in my career, I didn't put enough stock into, I would say, doing enough research, really understanding industries and personas when it came to engaging, and so my background is, you know, marketing, sales and customer success, and I think this has been highlighted in 2023 and 2024 as well in terms of, I think, some of the acumen that is needed in the industry. And so one of the learnings and what not to do is don't underestimate the importance of doing research, and not just for the sake of how many people are in this company, what is this person's title, but really understand what their challenges are, what their motivations might be, how the macroeconomic landscape impacts them. So that's another thing, and I learned the hard way from some slip ups talking to prospects and clients of what that outcome can be. And then the third one that I would say is really around, you know, listening and broadening your perspectives, and I've, you know, I've been posting a little bit about this on LinkedIn lately, actually, and it's not getting stuck in an echo chamber, and so one of the things that I'm really fortunate that I had in my career is I worked with some fantastic cross-functional leaders, and I've worked with some really fantastic CEOs, you know, cxos that really demonstrated what working across a broad range and collaborating look like.

Speaker 2: 10:52

And from there I learned how much better of a leader I could be when I broadened my perspective, when I learned from other leaders in product technology, whatever the case may be, and so, yeah, that's another thing. I wish I had done that earlier in my career because echo chambers can be a very, very bad and dangerous thing, so don't get caught in those.

Speaker 1: 11:17

Those are some excellent mistakes. Thank you for doing them so we can avoid them. Okay, elizabeth, earlier when we spoke about a podcast, I do believe that I share with you one of the reasons why I started this podcast and I do hope that you're going to start yours very soon. But what inspired me to do this podcast? It was, among other things, a presentation in a conference where there was data presented to us showcasing how there is a huge gender disbalance in customer success. So that was back in 2019.

Speaker 1: 11:55

And the data showed that, if 60% of women versus 40% of men entered customer success industry, as you know, csm level just the junior level, moving up on a managerial level, kind of the gender met 5050. First time in SAS, first time in tech beautiful numbers, but then everything higher up director, vp levels and above, the data showed that there was only 30% women on those roles and 70% men. So obviously that there was such a huge disproportion. So many reasons to think about what is happening with all of those women that entered the industry but they can't reach the executive positions. And luckily you were also very interested in this topic to try to understand, like what are the challenges and why do we see such a big disproportion of women to men in SAS in general, in tech. Tell me where is even your interest for the topic coming from, and then let's explore what is it that we can do and how can we deal with those challenges.

Speaker 2: 13:05

Yeah. So I realized very early on in my career, really from day one of like my first professional job outside of of a university, how disproportion at the the landscape was in terms of leadership men and women in sales role. So my first role at a university was a was a sales role. It was a sales role and it wasn't just within the organization that I was working with, but it was even within my customer base and I had some leaders around me that were women and very dynamic, but it was so obvious that we were very, very underrepresented in particularly leadership positions and I just I didn't like that. It just it didn't feel right to me because why shouldn't we also be in the position to be leaders? And you know, so I observed, I would observe meetings and I would observe interactions, and it became something that I was really passionate about, partly also because of comments and things that were made to me over the years.

Speaker 2: 14:17

That was gender driven. You know, I remember in one interview I had a lot of comments and I was like um, the CEO asked me do you plan on having children? Because I don't hire anyone who's going to need a mat leave in the next five years? And I, you know, very diplomatically ended the interview at that time and it that stuck, that has stuck with me forever, and that was again pretty early on in my career and I thought, ok, you know, I want to try and do something, even if it's little things to you know, help bridge this gap and prevent this from, you know, being something that I, that I fall into, of like, ok, well, I'm going to fade to the background because I'm a female or whatever you know.

Speaker 1: 15:10

So even it's from many years ago to a few years ago only when when I was introduced with that statistics to almost today, things have moved very little bit, probably in a good direction, but absolutely not enough. Just to share some of the latest stats that I found, mostly from what 2002. So two years ago McKinsey reports found that 86 women are promoted to manager for every hundred men across every industry. But then in tech the number drops to 52 women for every hundred men. So firstly, we are seeing promotion gap. Many more men double the number of men are promoted in comparison with women. That's the promotion gap.

Speaker 1: 15:56

Then we are all familiar pretty much with the pay gap where women made what? 82% of men's salaries and then they are getting only 2% increases. Then we are seeing so many other reasons, like pandemic gap when women tend to stay at home for you know, a few years now, and for many of them it was difficult to go back into the workplace. Talking about the workplace, there is also an element of workplace culture which is not absolutely driven in a way to welcome women or allow for flexible working etc. There are so many of the challenges that the world is aware of that women are facing today. What have been some of your observations in the past years? Have you seen any development or do you still see that the needle is moving extremely slowly?

Speaker 2: 16:46

I think it's moving too slowly. I think the needle has moved a bit, but if you even think about, you know founders and where VC money has gone, it tends to be, you know, more towards, you know, male driven organizations and women are underrepresented there. I can't remember the stat off the top of my head.

Speaker 1: 17:11

There are around 2% from AI. Women representation is 2% of funding.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Yeah, it was like 1.8 or something, don't you know?

Speaker 2: 17:20

It was somewhere in that range, the 2% range, and you know, and to me that's another huge gap as well, and so I think, I think there's a few things at play here.

Speaker 2: 17:30

There's so, when we think about customer success specifically, and also when I think about what I've observed across sales organizations, one of my fears is for women in customer success and how it's evolving is that there's even fewer female sales leaders, and so the more customer success gets, you know, pushed and driven to be more, you know, commercially focused, to have revenue targets, which, you know if anyone has followed or watched my content, knows that I am an advocate for CS having revenue accountability, but, on the other hand, my fear is that women are going to get left behind even more because you don't see as many women in sales leadership roles, and so, as we see CS get folded under CROs or VPs of sales, we see that there's a lot of people who are not doing sales.

Speaker 2: 18:29

We're going to see, I think, less and less women ultimately leading those departments and teams. So I think that's something that we need to be really mindful of and, to be honest with you, one of the things that I have been trying to do is that where I see a female who's in CS and they want to move into a leadership role, or they're in a management role and they want to move up higher, I feel kind of a pull to try and support them and give them some tips and advice in terms of the actual execution of, say, cs and revenue, because I want to help set people up for success. So it's more of an even playing field so we can see more women progress there. But that's one of the things that I think we're going to see even a drop off in female leaders.

Speaker 1: 19:21

Because of that it's interesting you were mentioning the whole concept of holding revenue accountability. Have you observed that? Is there a reason to believe that women are perhaps not skilled enough to talk about revenue very often or perhaps are hesitant to lead the revenue conversation? I think I spoke with another leader on the podcast who literally observed that that was the case in her environment, so she also had lots of tips for women how to overcome that. But I wonder, what is your observation? Do you see any correlation? That women maybe simply need to become a bit more confident in presenting the revenue and having those conversations?

Speaker 2: 20:07

Yeah, so a couple of things. Some of the best account executives that I've worked with account managers that I've worked with have been women. I do see that there have, and if you look at the individual contributors, the I see, you will see a lot of females in those positions and a lot of them excel and a lot of them are really good. However, I do think that there's two things at play well, more than two things, but two things that stand out for me is that one is that as women start to grow their families, that automatically puts them at a disadvantage, whether we like it or not, because they'll go on mat leave and people won't say it as bluntly as the CEO said it to me now, because it's not exactly, not to mention widely not acceptable. But the fact is that there still is that thought process, that fear. Is that okay, am I going to train this person and get them onboarded and then am I going to lose them for a year? So I do think, unfortunately, that women still have that working against them, not in all organizations, of course, and not through any fault of their own, but it does kind of put us on our back foot, unfortunately, at times.

Speaker 2: 21:35

The other is that I do find and this has been something again in my whole career women have been less I don't want to say less confident, but less apt to take the mic in a meeting. So they're less apt to speak up and speak over people to be heard. So if you're in a let's say whether it's Zoom or in a physical board meeting and you have a mix of men and women, I continually observe that the men will talk over each other and the men will jump in before the previous person has not even finished their sentence. But women don't tend to do that, and so it becomes hard for women sometimes to take the mic literally, and that's actually what this painting behind me represents.

Speaker 2: 22:28

It is a motivation for women, a reminder for me to take the mic, because there was a lot of circumstances and still is where I'm in meetings and with a lot of men and I'm trying to get my moment to say my piece, to interject, and so I think that, in terms of being able to execute on the skills, women can do it just as well as men, if not better, in a lot of cases. But I do think that we do, women collectively, have to find a way to grab that proverbial mic more often, and I think we need to watch out for it when we're in meetings and we need to jump in and say oh, hold up, wait a second. I think that whoever Mary has something to say, and if we can draw attention to that, I think that will help as well. But from a you know, to go back, I guess, in the TLDR is that I think women are just as capable, if not more, than men. They have the skill, they have the knowledge.

Speaker 1: 23:31

Absolutely. I love how you went into the communication more immediately, Because very often we are seeing how women are, yes, not taking the mic enough, but then when they do, very often they would jump in and say oh wait, I just wanted to follow up on what has been said, almost apologetically, that we are now talking. It's not about just. We should, as women, remove all of those little words that are undermining us and, as you said, take the mic and say hold on, you know, hear me out.

Speaker 2: 24:09

Yeah, the just thing is huge. I remember my mom was the first person who pointed that out to me. I think I was still in university at the time and I said it's just Elizabeth calling and mom said no, it's not. And I was like kind of taking back. I'm like what do you mean? And like I'm Elizabeth, she said no, you're never just. You are never just. And my mom was a nurse and she said her old boss, her first boss, told her that she walked into the staff room one day and said to a doctor oh, I'm just Betty Lou. And her boss said no, you're never. So I think you know those are the things to pass down and to share like and to encourage people to remove that from their conversation. The other thing that women do more than men is we say, instead of I think or I believe or I know, we'll say I feel.

Speaker 2: 25:04

And sometimes the thing I feel is okay If it's a you know, a moment of I didn't like, you know something that you said or did or whatever. That's a different context. But if it's something where we're talking about business results, if we're talking about a project that we're advocating for, no, you don't feel, you think, you think well, no, and it's backed up by this data point. This data point yes, there's no feelings in that.

Speaker 1: 25:31

No, no, I so much love like you're more than just. You're never just. You're never a just this is. This is awesome and yes, let's, let's remove all of those ways of communicating that is not straight up there to the point, because we can do it. Elizabeth, there are so many leaders in customer success listening to this episode and when we speak about gender diversity and and this proportional number of of women versus men, obviously there's so many reasons why and so many things that we know companies should do. You know, from allowing for more flexible work, maybe extra training, better recognition programs. There are so many things companies can do, but let's focus on the listener, the lady, the CS leader who has a team. She's managing the team. Now let's speak to those women. What can they do today? What are the actions they can do to make those numbers better in their environment, in their companies, without thinking about, without thinking of anybody else taking ownership? Like what is it that they can be in a direct control of?

Speaker 2: 26:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 26:47

So I think you know thinking about being a leader and how you're going to support, you know other women who want to become leaders. I think there's a few things that we can do, for you know the support of of women in general. So that'll be one part of the answer. Then another follow up to that will be what they can do for themselves. I think this is the first part being be aware of some of the behaviors that we can be almost immune to and because we see so often that they may go unnoticed. So, for example, one of the things that I've been on the receiving end and I've observed in other environments as well, is that a female will advocate for themselves. They'll push for something for themselves, whether it's a promotion or a project they want or something, and they will often get labeled as difficult and complaining. And then a man can do the same thing, and well, they're just really passionate, and there's all of these. You know that's just one example. I think we need to just be really more aware of those types of situations where we may even unconsciously not support them but not speak out against them and not offer a different lens, I like in one case it was literally the me and a male counterpart. We both wanted not the same thing, but it was more or less the same sort of context where we wanted a project and I advocated for myself and I was a squeaky wheel. He advocated for himself and we even talked about it afterwards and he said, yeah, it's kind of the ass he's like I don't know. Anyway, it all worked out well in the end, but I think I really appreciated that he had called that out and I think that you know we have to be aware of those types of things and to make sure that we are calling out anything that might not really be done consciously but is still there.

Speaker 2: 28:55

I think you know, supporting women as well, as they are looking to grow into a management role and helping them navigate that, and so if it's helping them get a coach, if it's, you know, spending more one-on-one time with them and listening to some of the things that you and I even just talked about, like you're not just listening for are they saying feelings, like and I'm not saying to favor your women team members over your male team members, but if I think, as leaders, if we can be aware of these things and help, coach and give time and attention, then I think that that goes a long way. And then I think the other thing is around the, you know, like communication and engagement, and I do think women do have to work a bit harder at how we show up in meetings, how we present, how we engage, and so I think that that's something that that female leaders can help their you know female team members with. And then, in terms of how you know what they can do for themselves, is, I think you know, be aware of those things that I just mentioned as well for yourself, like how you're showing up, how you're engaging and look for mentors and you know, ideally, other female leaders that are you know, kind of where you want to be and ideally get someone who's going to tell you what you need to hear and what not what you want to hear. I think that's a key thing.

Speaker 2: 30:24

Men do have a tendency to be a bit more blunt and women will sugarcoat things, and I'm not saying one is better or worse, but I think sometimes it is really good to have someone that you can go to that will tell you like I have a couple of people like that. I'm like all right, you know, tiana give it to me straight and she'll be super blunt and she knows where I'm coming from. So I think that's really important to you know, find those people and have them in your circle that you can lean on and go to and pay up and pay that forward and be that for someone else it's incredibly important, I agree.

Speaker 1: 31:02

When you work in an organization, find as many I call it unofficial mentors, so many role models who are probably more senior, at least in their positions, than you and you can ask them for the opinion. You are almost creating that relationship that will help them support you and advocate for you when there is time for the conversations about promotions. And you know, when they see how you work, when you're giving them this trust, they kind of give it back to you in a way that they advocate for you. I've seen that working so many times, and for women especially, I think it's just so important to reach out to those relationships and to learn from others, because, yes, sometimes you just need others to advocate for you. I'm not saying it's not the case for men, but perhaps that self-promotion comes more easier for them and women really can benefit so much by having somebody just being there for them. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 32:03

And then the other thing I would call out that I think is really important as women and leaders of positions, I think we need to be really loud and advocate for equal pay as we are looking at our teams, and if there is inequality, we have to speak out about that at all levels. So that would be the other thing. I would add there Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 32:23

And leaders have that power to kind of adjust the salaries and have a look at them. When I was recruiting a lot and building, you know, the Holy Mia Success team, I was interviewing a lot and I have seen many times women coming to the interviews and when they are asking for the salary they put it so much lower, and I was very often. I did tell some of the candidates maybe I shouldn't be telling you that but you should put your prices up when you're interviewing because your male counterparts are doing that easily. You have all the experience. Just don't hold yourself down. Please increase your price.

Speaker 2: 33:07

Yeah, no, I'm so glad that you brought that up as well, because that was one thing I learned early on, and I won't say the company, but I started at the same day, same role, same training, as my male counterpart. He's a great, great guy, loved working with him. But pay came up one day and I was getting paid less than him and yet I had more experience. So everything else was the same about a role and everything. But I came in with more experience and so from that time forward I never asked women for not that I would never go to a colleague and say what did you get paid?

Speaker 2: 33:44

But if I was going into another organization and getting prepared to negotiate, I would never ask the women what the pay range was. I would always ask men, because they would be at a higher level. So then I would demand what the men were demanding and negotiate to like don't take what is first on the table. That's something as being you know from my experience as a hiring manager far more men actually very few men just took what was first offered, but many women would take. So we need to negotiate as well.

Speaker 1: 34:15

That is such a good call out yeah, don't just go straight to men and ask for the price, that's easy. I had a similar situation when it came to promotion. A male colleague and I kind of scored the same on the performance review, meaning that we are ready for promotion and that should happen anytime soon. He got promoted immediately and my promotion somehow happened few months after, only because of no matter what reasons, even if we were on the same level at the same time. Again, maybe he was just louder, I don't know what was the reason, but those are so many situations that just happen to everybody. We just have to be more aware and ask the questions. Ask our colleagues what you could say right?

Speaker 2: 35:03

Yeah, and it's true, we have to negotiate and yeah, it's so important to fix that gap because it's real.

Speaker 1: 35:16

Elizabeth, thank you so much for providing us with really tangible advice. One thing that I will never forget every time when I personally lead females on my team, the little sorry, it's not little trust, but the trust, or anything little that I give them any flexibility, that they want, any trust, they always kind of perform so much higher. It's almost like they give it back to you and to the team so much just because of all of those little flexibilities that you're giving them. So I have learned also early on how women especially appreciate every little kindness or every little extra, especially if there are mothers it's completely different story, but they reward you with the results and they absolutely outperform others.

Speaker 2: 36:07

Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. If you give them that support, especially again, like working mothers, they will work so hard for you and I, honestly, some of the most efficient workers that I know are mothers.

Speaker 1: 36:22

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 36:25

They don't have a choice. So if you want efficiency and I mean hey, 2023, 2024, all about efficiency I mean working mothers. I don't know too many people who are more efficient than them.

Speaker 1: 36:37

So yes, cheers to us working mothers. Yes, because when I have a school run to do, I'm going to drive very fast but don't take more of my time that needed on the meeting.

Speaker 2: 36:50

Yeah, and I am going to focus in those 30 minutes that I have because that you know when I got to go pick up ReachIsle. Like that's the time I'm going to.

Speaker 1: 37:00

Yeah, elizabeth, as we are wrapping up, where can listeners find you online and what will be your new website? How can we check it out?

Speaker 2: 37:09

Oh yeah, so you remind me on LinkedIn, so feel free to connect and reach out to me there. And then my website is currently wntdpartnerscom. I'm thinking about changing it to ElizabethItalianocom, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1: 37:24

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I didn't say that.

Speaker 2: 37:28

Well, we always go to wntdpartnerscom, but we'll probably be ElizabethItalianocom. Yeah, so that's. You can find me on LinkedIn or the website there. It's under construction, so please don't judge me yet though.

Speaker 1: 37:42

Well, it was wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much for coming to the show.

Speaker 2: 37:48

Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 1: 37:53

Thank you for listening. Next week new episode, Subscribe to the podcast and connect with me on LinkedIn so you're up to date with all the new episodes and the content I'm curating for you. Have a great day and talk to you soon.