111 - How to Build Your Personal Brand Internally as a Customer Success Manager - Natasha Evans

Are you looking for ways to boost your career growth and master the art of building a personal brand? 

Natasha Evans, Head of Customer at Hook is who I welcome in this episode of the Women In Customer Success podcast.

Natasha has spent the last 10 years in Customer Success, first as a Customer Success Manager and then leading teams and whole CS organisations. Natasha loves both the building of processes and frameworks in CS as well as building diverse teams and cultures. Natasha is a big advocate for working parents, female leaders, and Customer Success as a function in SaaS.

We discuss the importance of being authentic to yourself as you face the challenges on your customer success journey. When you build your personal brand, it’s not just about gaining visibility, it’s about showcasing your unique skills and achievements. Strategic self-promotion is crucial for both professional and personal growth. 

We also go into:

• Why stepping up and taking ownership is important
• Strategies to elevate your personal brand
• How to build your personal brand and get promoted

Other people’s experiences can be invaluable lessons for improvement. So, tune in, learn how to build your personal brand and make your mark in the industry you’re in.

Follow Natasha!

This episode was brought to you by Deployflow.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

In today's episode we are talking about personal brand. What does it mean and how does it even look like when you're working in an organization? So how do you develop an internal brand as a CSM? What about internal brand as a CS leader, and what are the strategies for developing an increasing internal brand of the entire customer success teams and department? Today, I'm thrilled to introduce it to Natasha Evans, head of Customer at Hook, and I think you're really going to love this episode, so let's get into it. Hi everyone, this is Maria Scobepile and you're listening to Women in Customer Success podcast, the first women-only podcast, where remarkable ladies of customer success share their stories and practical tools to help you succeed and make an impact. If you want to learn more about customer success, get career advice and be inspired, you're in the right place, so let's tune in. It is such a pleasure to welcome my guest today, natasha Evans. I'm so happy you're here. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Thank you, I'm so thrilled to be here and, oh my goodness, that was like the nicest introduction. Thank you, if you could do all of my intros from now on, that would just be fabulous.

Speaker 1: 1:19

Thank you so much for that we can speak about that. Anyway, you deserve that, so why not, natasha? I would like everybody to get to know you a bit better. Where are you?

Speaker 2: 1:28

based. I am based most of the time in Cheshire in the north of England in the UK, but I come down to London to hang out with the team in the office every single week.

Speaker 1: 1:39

When you're privileged not to be in the office and you're still working. What are those little things that you are taking advantage of?

Speaker 2: 1:47

during the day. Yes, okay, I have so many. I drink way too much coffee, so I love to just nip to the coffee machine and make myself a little treat coffee except it's not a treat when you have four or five a day, and you will often find me either snuggling a hot water bottle or petting my dog, who likes to sit next to me while I'm working. Little things like that.

Speaker 1: 2:09

Would the 16-year-old you be surprised to find you in this current position?

Speaker 2: 2:17

Yes, definitely, 16-year-old me was not very outgoing, definitely not a good communicator and definitely scared of like calling people, answering the phone, all of those sorts of things. So I think, if I think to myself back then, I would not have pictured myself in this kind of role no, that's really interesting because I wonder how did that development go then?

Speaker 1: 2:50

But you'll tell us that, like I need to know. You know, what did you study? What did you do? How did it all change? But just before we get into that journey, you know, between 16 year old and entering customer success, which is very crucial time in your life, let's play a quick association game. So if I say a word, what are the first things that come to your mind? Ready, okay, ready, yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:14

Personal brand, accountability, customer success.

Speaker 1: 3:22

Value.

Speaker 2: 3:32

Leader Authentic, authentic. Wow, that's it. Check, pass the test. I found that really difficult. I was like the first thing I thought of was like two or three words. I'm sure she'll tell me I could only have one word no, that was brilliant.

Speaker 1: 3:39

Yeah, very, very meaningful. Oh, thanks for that. Let's go into the conversation now. Your kind of college graduate years and what happened? How did you end up in customer success? When did you even heard about?

Speaker 2: 3:53

it first, honestly, totally by accident, accident. So I studied maths at university like only because I loved maths and I loved, like, the logic and the analysis and the problem solving, and so I did a degree that I enjoyed. I thought nothing more of it. I didn't really know what I wanted to do or who I wanted to be as my career progressed, and when I finished my degree I was like, okay, I need to get a job. I don't really know what I want to do. And my mom suggested that I go and hand my CV in a recruitment agency. And I was like, okay, let me get a job. I don't really know what I want to do. And my mom suggested that I go and hand my CV in a recruitment agency. And I was like, what's a recruitment agency? So I handed my CV in there and they said, oh, we've got a job here as a receptionist. Do you want to come and work for us? And I was like, yeah, sure, bearing in mind, what I told you about my 16 year old-old self was still very true of my 21-year-old self. I was the worst receptionist. I was so terrified to pick up the phone to call people, and so I had to very quickly get over my fear, develop my skills, and so from there, I became a recruitment consultant and started helping people get jobs.

Speaker 2: 5:06

I moved to Australia to be a recruiter in Australia because I really wanted to travel and I thought it was a really nice way of seeing the world whilst also still earning money. And whilst I was a recruiter, my strength kind of unsurprisingly was in using the technology at my disposal to find the best candidates and find the best job, and so I applied for an internal role in their systems training team to basically help everybody else do that. It's like how do you use your CRM or your system or how do you use LinkedIn to go and find the best candidates and find the best people to call? Find the best candidates and find the best people to call. And I was lucky enough to get that job and that really was my.

Speaker 2: 5:50

What I think about like my first, like defining moment in my career was going into this training team, and so I spent a couple of years basically training all the recruiters, all the managers, on how to leverage LinkedIn more effectively, and then loved LinkedIn, loved their tech, loved the company and the culture, like everything that they were about and applied to go and work at LinkedIn. I was unsuccessful first time round and then I applied again six months later, like I took the feedback, worked on my skills, found myself projects that aligned better with what they were looking for. Applied again six months later and I was successful and that really was the first entry into customer success. And I think even when I applied they didn first entry into customer success and I think even when I applied they didn't call it customer success. I remember when I started they were rebranding the whole team into the customer success organization and that was the first time I'd ever heard of it.

Speaker 1: 6:37

I love that example so much. I just love how you also emphasize on you took feedback from the whole process. You applied again, again, like you were so resilient and obviously you love linkedin. I mean you obviously right, it's really cool. Yeah, do you remember what was like? What even attracted you to the role, if you know it wasn't customer success? However, it was cool. Like how did you match yourself with?

Speaker 2: 6:59

it. Yeah. So my role in the internal training team was to align with stakeholders and deliver the right kind of skills enablement to drive their business objectives. And when I looked at the role at LinkedIn, I was like, well, this is basically doing the same sort of thing, it's just that I would have external customers and external stakeholders rather than internal customers and internal stakeholders. And like, yeah, I hadn't done everything and there were parts of the role that I needed to learn, because CS is not just about training and enablement. But I was like I can surely I can figure that out and give it a go and skills development along the way, Right. And so I thought that it was a really nice, a really nice match and a lot of transferable skills.

Speaker 1: 7:46

I thought that it was a really nice. A really nice match and a lot of transferable skills.

Speaker 2: 7:52

Perfect, and that was your start of customer success career right? Yes, yeah, beautiful customer success. And then transferred into what you would class as your traditional CSM role, now running a book of business across some of their largest accounts within one of those segments and, yeah, everything progressed from there Very quickly.

Speaker 1: 8:21

I can see that. So basically you've been as a CSM, you've been an individual contributor and then started leading teams customer success team and all customer experience teams as well, right?

Speaker 2: 8:29

Yes, yeah, I've been so lucky. I think yeah. So I was a CSM at LinkedIn and then I led some of their teams. I moved to Sales Loft and I worked my way up at Sales Loft and so most recently was running all of their global customer success and renewals teams 90 to 100 people and then now I've joined Hook and I'm building what is the customer team essentially from the ground up. So I have a really small and mighty team right now, but we're growing fast and we have all of the processes, all of the frameworks, all of the resources to build, which is the piece that I really love. So I'm really excited. Well, congrats on that new role.

Speaker 1: 9:06

I can imagine how exciting it is. But also I just love your career, how you've been building yourself up. I just didn't like when you say I was lucky. You were not lucky, you were amazing. You were continuously doing the right things and you were successful in it. Sorry, if you don't want that to come across wrong. That's good feedback, I appreciate that. It's not bad, for sure.

Speaker 2: 9:34

Thank you.

Speaker 1: 9:35

Okay, when I asked you the association questions for personal brand, you said accountability, right, yes. Now tell me more. What is personal brand for you? Because what I would like us to spend the next few minutes on is really trying to unpack. What does it mean having your own personal brand when you work in an organization, when you work within the team, so you know how does it reflect on you as individual, individual and on the whole team? So let's start with personal brand.

Speaker 2: 10:07

That's a really good question, because I've not really sat and thought about what do I define as personal brand? I guess it's how people perceive me as to how I contribute to the team, the value that I bring to the team and to the organization, that I bring to the team and to the organization, and I think it's also like the level they expect you to perform at when you turn up and you work with a customer or you work internally. So I think it's that like outward perception of you, what you're about, how you work, but also, I think, the values that you bring to that as well. I would hope that my personal brand is not just about whether I'm great at my job, but also whether I'm a good human and a good colleague too.

Speaker 1: 10:52

And you will hope that some of those values obviously define the way that you work so that that would be perceived in a similar way outwards. I really like that kind of almost the definition how you are perceived outwards. I've heard many other kind of definitions of personal brand. Very much it comes down to you know, reputation, again what people think about you when you're not in the room. So it's all together related to how do other people perceive you. But I love your spin on it, like what do they expect from you, almost, which is just bringing it to another level. I really love that.

Speaker 1: 11:28

Okay, let's talk to CSMs who are listening. So when you were a CSM, what do you have to do to develop your personal brand? And, by the way, firstly, obviously everybody has a personal brand. I think we just established this is the perception of you. It's kind of your reputation. So it's not something you either have or you don't have. Like everybody has it. What you do with it, it's completely another story. So we established you have it. Now you're a CSM, how do you go about it?

Speaker 2: 11:57

I think about it in a few ways. I think that there are. I guess you need to first define what you want to be known as right, what you want your personal brand to be, and then there are ways that you go about building that. There are the bigger moments, the bigger calls, the bigger presentations, but I always think that your brand is built in the little moments just as much as it's built in the big moments. So I would be thinking about no matter how small that internal prep meeting is or that deliverable is for the customer, that you prep, that you follow up, that you are reliable and that you do what you say that you're going to do. So I guess that would be my first piece of advice like don't only just focus on the bigger moments, like really think about all those little moments that add up and and make your personal brand this is perfect.

Speaker 1: 12:48

Can we just double down it totally, yeah, I mean, this is. I think this is eye-opening for many people because sometimes when you say personal brand, people can straight away think of you know, big stage, conference, you're presenting, or you're presenting a company all hand. Yeah, all of that is cool, but it is indeed in those little moments that you are building yourself up. Why? Because you do have an audience inside your company. Like I'm sure you would agree, I've seen so many people being promoted after doing diligent job really well, because other senior leaders in the organization recognize how they've been really good in providing preparation when it was needed, they've been good in following up, they've been good in doing those little things that somebody has to do, and that's how your reputation grows.

Speaker 2: 13:37

Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. Yeah, okay, little things matter.

Speaker 1: 13:41

So never underestimate those follow-up emails, preparation for internal meetings, because somebody will recognize you and well, somebody at the end of the day becomes your sponsor and says your name when they are looking for the next person. So you never know.

Speaker 2: 13:56

We all see that coming yeah, somebody said to me once that often the most important conversations about your career happen when you're not in the room, and so you want to have this personal brand amongst your colleagues, amongst your peers, because you want them to be saying great things and advocating for you when you're not in the room. And I think actually that links onto my second point, and I think actually that links onto my second point. I would often encourage team members or people in my team to build out almost a matrix of who they want to have a really great brand in front of, especially if you're vying for a promotion. So think about all of the people that would be influencers in whether or not you move into that role that you want or you get promoted or you go to that company. Then think about okay, what's the?

Speaker 2: 14:43

You know, what kind of interactions have you had with them so far and what's your perception of how they, of how they see your personal brand and like red, amber, green. And then where you think, okay, do you know what? I haven't had much exposure to that person, or I have, but I don't know that I showed up in the best way that day, or they gave me some constructive feedback and then you note down that you want to proactively go and repair your personal brand or build a relationship with that particular individual and that's then for your manager to coach you and give you the opportunity on how to do that. But I think people don't often think about taking that like programmatic approach to how you build your personal brand and I think it's a really good about taking that like programmatic approach to how you build your personal brand and I think it's a really good exercise, especially where you're vying for a promotion internally.

Speaker 1: 15:24

It's almost like mapping out your internal stakeholders. It's like a stakeholder map exactly Perfect. I mean, it's not always for the sake of getting promoted, it's just for the sake of the personal development as well when you think about it. If you have like a list of five stakeholders that you really want to show up in front as a really competent CSM, those people can become your unofficial mentors. Right, you can just reach out to them saying Karen has 30 minutes of your time and I would like feedback on something in particular that we work together on. That can be just invaluable opportunity for personal development.

Speaker 2: 16:00

Yeah, totally Yep. And then I think the third thing that I would say when it comes to building a personal brand, is to be confident and be brave and share what you're doing more. I think oftentimes in customer success we don't do that enough. We get the spotlight when something's not going well and we don't do a good enough job of shouting when things are going well, because often when things are going well, people don't hear about it, and that's a good thing, but it's not great.

Speaker 2: 16:27

When it comes to building your personal brand and I know that this is something that a lot of people find uncomfortable is that like self-promotion sharing their wins, talking about what's gone really well and so my advice would be if that's something that doesn't come naturally to you, then at least share it with your manager, even if it's the form of like a weekly digest or a bi-weekly or a monthly, where you say here's all my wins from the week or the month. Here's the things that I'm struggling with, that I want to talk to you about in our one-on-one. Your manager will always want to know that information and they will want to share that with their peers or your peers. But I think any ways that you can think to self-promote, but also just share all of that incredible work you've been doing and the outcomes is really valuable when it comes to your personal brand.

Speaker 1: 17:14

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Speaker 1: 17:57

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Speaker 1: 19:14

This is profound. I'll tell you why I love your weekly digest the name as a format. I typically used to have like weekly update with the team members, but the idea is the same. Right, you want CSMs to tell you the good, bad and ugly, like all of those wins and amazing feedback they're getting from customers. And now CSMs, if you're listening, well, just picture this If every time when you go to your manager is because there was an escalation or there is a little issue or the problem, what is your manager going to think about you? I mean, obviously they will see the hard work you're doing. They will think good things, of course, but is that the only content that you want to include? Like, really create those opportunities to show good feedback and all of those good things that are happening. As a manager, natasha, do you always have visibility into everything great that's happening if no one tells you?

Speaker 2: 20:11

Yeah, exactly, and that's the thing it's like as a manager you have the best intentions and you want to go and find this kind of info from your team, but you also have all of these other priorities that you're balancing as well, and so I think as much as your team can make that easy on you by sharing that proactively, it makes our life so much easier.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Oh, absolutely what would you say? What are some tools for people who maybe don't know how to start going about it? Uh, would you, would you tell them? You know, do it in a slack channel for the whole team so others can get visibility as well, because, in a way, sharing to manager is awesome and it has to be done. But how do they amplify it even more so that it goes beyond only manager at least to a team settings, which is equally important?

Speaker 2: 20:54

yeah, a slack channel is a great idea. We we had an internal slack channel just for bragging on yourself or other colleagues when we were at Sales Loft, which I think was really lovely. I think it's also an opportunity for leaders to create that space in team meetings and one-on-ones. What wins do you have from the week? What do you want to share?

Speaker 1: 21:42

no-transcript. Is there anything else that you feel really strongly about when we are talking about developing?

Speaker 2: 21:58

personal brand for CSMs. Personal brand for CSMs yeah, I think that there's your individual brand, but I also feel really strongly about the brand of CS internally in an organization. I'm happy to talk about that a little bit if that's of interest.

Speaker 1: 22:12

Yes, please, Especially in the current market when CS need to do a lot of PR to showcase how valuable are they. Please share your strategies.

Speaker 2: 22:22

Yeah. So I think again, I'm a fan of threes, but there's three things that I personally place a lot of weight on as a CS leader and thinking about how me and my team are perceived internally, but also with our customers. I think the first one is aligning to metrics that the business cares about, and this goes both ways right. This works internally thinking about what does the company that you work for care about and how do you make sure that you're aligning to the company plan and the company goals and metrics but it also works with your customers. I think the easiest way of getting buy-in to work the way you want to work as a CSM with your customers is to understand their business metrics and talk about how you're going to help drive them. So that's the first thing that I place a lot of weight on. The second thing is accountability, and so you asked me about personal brand and I said accountability. I'm a big believer of, like taking ownership and stepping up and, if something needs to be done, just getting on and doing it and proving to be reliable and accountable. I think that's an easy way to build such a great brand as a CS team, like, yeah, I'm accountable for adoption, yeah, I'm accountable for churn or for retention, and really stepping up and talking internally about how you're going to take the accountability for that and how you're going to move it forward. I think that's also really easy to do as an individual contributor too.

Speaker 2: 23:54

And then the third thing that I think plays a big part of this is around being a team player. I'm all for setting boundaries with my customers or setting boundaries with my internal colleagues around what we can and we can't do, because it's really easy for customer success to become a catch-all and everything gets thrown at us and we get pulled into everything and then we achieve nothing. And so I'm all for setting boundaries. But I'm also really big on having empathy and putting myself in the shoes of my colleagues, whether it's my sales counterparts or my products and engineering counterparts. And then like flexing and being a great team player. Where you need to, it's great to say, hey, I don't do this, but actually if it's really going to benefit the business or your customer, it's okay to have some flexibility in that and actually you build a really good brand and really good relationships along the way. So those are the three things that I place a lot of weight on.

Speaker 1: 24:50

No that's really perfect because, as you said, it's almost like being a bit flexy, but being open to help others right and understand what is important for that product team or engineering team, what matters to them, even if you haven't thought about it previously, you know. Maybe there's just one action that you need to do that will help them provide better insights from customers or just do something that will be so meaningful for them. And, on another hand, yes, your internal brand, your reputation, is growing because they are seeing how amazing you are in what you're doing, how you're really attempting to provide the best value for the customers. So there is always those little wins. I just like how it all becomes very squiggly. It's just so, so connected.

Speaker 1: 25:38

I also really love your point about taking accountability, like owning when there is a potential problem or an issue and in a way, that is almost the best way of becoming I call it a promotion material. Right, Do a few of those projects, own it, showcase what you can do. Your managers will see you as a person who you know just owns things, who is really really good in solving problems, and that is very good for getting promoted, becoming team lead, becoming anything else that you want to do, but it's important to bring those solutions to the table as well.

Speaker 2: 26:14

Totally yeah, and I get why it's difficult sometimes. Again, because quite often CSMs can find themselves in an environment where everybody is throwing everything at you and you're like, well, hey, I can't do all of this stuff. But I think sometimes we go too far down that path of being like, hey, that's not my job and I think sometimes we could. Because of that, we can actually just lean in a little bit more and take that bit more accountability or I certainly try to anyway this was an awesome mini masterclass for CSMs, natasha, but you have been a leader as well for quite a few years now.

Speaker 1: 26:51

What are some strategies that you have seen working really well for leaders to elevate their personal brand internally?

Speaker 2: 26:56

I don't know that I do anything different as a leader. I think all of those same things apply Moments that matter, like the little moments with your team, and how you show up for a one-on-one or an internal meeting, like being present. I think all of that stuff applies and is equally as important as how you show up to an executive meeting or a board meeting or whatever that looks like. I think like taking accountability and leaning in and putting yourself in your counterpart's shoes. I think all of that stuff still applies as a leader, it's just that you have more spotlight on you. So there's even more of a reason to do everything right and really try and lead by example, because then other people will follow.

Speaker 1: 27:43

You just have higher expectation from your stakeholders that are most likely much more senior and senior executive, and you know the CEOs right, totally. The pressure is just higher, but it's the same little things that matter. Natasha, as we are wrapping up, I would like to ask you obviously I already have a hint what it could be, but tell me what have been some of the major lessons in your career that you learned so far?

Speaker 2: 28:13

I think that being like authentic to yourself and your values and just trying at all times to be a good human and aligned to your values honestly is the biggest lesson that I've learned.

Speaker 2: 28:27

I think when I certainly when I first started out my leadership career because I'm a process driven individual if you hadn't clocked that by the internal stakeholder I like really tied myself up in knots about, well, how do I approach this scenario, what's the like manager's handbook for how you should approach this thing, and I really just got myself like so worked up about what's the right way to do everything. And I think that like, actually, if you're just authentic to yourself and you know what your values are and you stay true to them and you try and stick to your values at all times, like actually you become a great leader and you do the right thing by your team and by the business. And so I think that's the biggest thing I've learned is to trust my gut, know what my values are and follow them at all times, Because if you're following your values, you can't go wrong.

Speaker 1: 29:21

And you will feel good about even decisions that you know maybe are not the greatest, but you know that you have done them with your heart, with your values that really speak to who you are.

Speaker 2: 29:31

Yes, I agree. Yeah, it will help you navigate all of that, all of those difficult decisions that you will inevitably come across in your career, whether you're a leader or not. If you're staying true to your values, then yeah to your point.

Speaker 1: 29:43

You, it's difficult, but you, you get through it just out of curiosity, do you have any of those managers handbooks that you were talking about? Did you write by me, like I think?

Speaker 2: 29:54

people would know. I'll be really happy to like that my manager's handbook is. Be a good human, like I always think about what's the outcome I need to get to and how do I? How do I get there whilst staying true to me and doing the right thing by the person and by me along the way? I wouldn't be able to write a book with that.

Speaker 1: 30:14

But you know what. Imagine you know five years ago, or even, if you think, five years into the future. What do you want your team members to know about you? No matter what you do together, they may not remember you know what was your retention rate as a team in quarter or two. No one will know that. They will just know how much you supported them and how good time you all had together. I hope so, yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:40

I really hope so.

Speaker 1: 30:42

Oh, I'm sure your team members well remember all of those grace and positives and know you as a person who is really attending to your values. I'm absolutely sure about that. Natasha, this was a wonderful conversation. Where can our listeners find you online?

Speaker 2: 31:01

Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn. I spend a little bit of time there trying to share some wisdom, engage in conversation and, dare I say, have a little bit of fun along the way. I like to have a little bit of fun in my role and poke a bit of fun at CS. So yeah, come find me on LinkedIn.

Speaker 1: 31:20

Perfect. Thanks so much for being here today.

Speaker 2: 31:23

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 31:27

Thank you for listening. Next week new episode, Subscribe to the podcast and connect with me on LinkedIn so you're up to date with all the new episodes and the content I'm curating for you. Have a great day and talk to you soon.