113 - Tips For Transitioning CSM Teams into Commercial Roles - Therese Mucherie
May 22, 2024Episode 113
Marija Skobe-Pilley
Is your CS team transitioning into commercial roles? Then this video is for you!
Join us as Therese shares helpful tips on how to transition CSM teams into commercial roles. Learn how to help with mindset shifts in behaviours, team training and development, and master the art of leading a team.
Throughout her professional career, Therese has been the face of various industries, from hospitality to sales to customer service. Whether it's greeting guests with a warm smile, closing deals with finesse, or resolving issues with empathy, she thrives in customer-facing roles, finding joy in every interaction.
For the past five years, Therese has been immersed in the realm of CS, cherishing every opportunity to foster meaningful relationships and drive revenue through the seamless integration of sales and CS.
What this episode has in store for you:
Career development tips
Advice for leaders
Personal development and professional growth tips
Therese also offers advice on achieving a work-life balance while being a mother. Dive into this episode for tips for transitioning teams and developing your career.
My new course The Revenue CSM is launching soon, so if you'd like to be the first to know about when it's available, here's the link to join the waitlist.
__________________________________________________ About Women in Customer Success Podcast:
Women in Customer Success Podcast is the first women-only podcast for Customer Success professionals, where remarkable ladies of Customer Success connect, inspire and champion each other.
Is your CS team transitioning into commercial roles? Then this video is for you!
Join us as Therese shares helpful tips on how to transition CSM teams into commercial roles. Learn how to help with mindset shifts in behaviours, team training and development, and master the art of leading a team.
Throughout her professional career, Therese has been the face of various industries, from hospitality to sales to customer service. Whether it's greeting guests with a warm smile, closing deals with finesse, or resolving issues with empathy, she thrives in customer-facing roles, finding joy in every interaction.
For the past five years, Therese has been immersed in the realm of CS, cherishing every opportunity to foster meaningful relationships and drive revenue through the seamless integration of sales and CS.
What this episode has in store for you:
Career development tips
Advice for leaders
Personal development and professional growth tips
Therese also offers advice on achieving a work-life balance while being a mother. Dive into this episode for tips for transitioning teams and developing your career.
My new course The Revenue CSM is launching soon, so if you'd like to be the first to know about when it's available, here's the link to join the waitlist.
__________________________________________________ About Women in Customer Success Podcast:
Women in Customer Success Podcast is the first women-only podcast for Customer Success professionals, where remarkable ladies of Customer Success connect, inspire and champion each other.
I will take your job in the next three to six years. Have you ever responded to an interview question? Where do you see yourself in five years time with that answer? Well, she did. My guest today is Therese Mascheri, a Global Director of Customer Success at Paligo, and indeed that's how she is responding to interview questions to understand how she and her line managers could work together for the future.
Speaker 1:
Today, we focus conversation on transitioning customer success teams into commercial roles. Where do you start from? How do you help in a mindset shift in behaviors and teams training and development? Let's get into it. Hi everyone, this is Maria Scobepillai and you're listening to Women in Customer Success podcast, the first women-only podcast where remarkable ladies of customer success share their stories and practical tools to help you succeed and make an impact. If you want to learn more about customer success, get career advice and be inspired, you're in the right place, so let's tune in. It is such a pleasure to welcome Therese Muscheri, a Global Director of Customer Success at Paligo, based out of Sweden. Therese, welcome to the show. It is so great to have you here.
Speaker 2:
Thank you, Maria. Very nice to be here as well. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 1:
I love so many different ways how people listen to podcasts and where they are listening it, and I remember Therese once telling me that she's listening to this podcast when she's doing her nails and I just thought how freaking smart is that? I just love that you're taking time to do. You know the money petty and whatever is needed, and you are continuously developing yourself during that time. So thank you for that. Just thank you for sharing. Where are you listening the podcast from? But today I'm just interested to find out so much about you.
Speaker 1:
So today we're planning to talk about Therese's journey to customer success, her journey into leadership and transforming customer success team from only male relationship builders mostly to heavy commercial teams, while having her team intact. And also, what is personal development? How do you fit it in in your everyday job, especially while being a mother focusing heavily on family time off for family but also building your career and having a very successful career and working towards a C-level position, like there is so much goodness in this episode that I'm really excited about. So, therese, let's start off by you telling us a bit about yourself and your background, which is very international, throughout different continents and different spheres of your life. Tell us more about it. Where are you coming from and how did you end up in Sweden? Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2:
So I was born and raised in France, very close to Paris. My father is French and my mother is Swedish, so I've always grew up with both languages, but mainly grew up in France. And at the age of 15, I decided to change. I needed a change. So I moved to Sweden to try that out and ended up doing the high school years there. But after high school I thought I need to study, I need to do something, but I can't do it here in Sweden. I've got the world in front of me. Let's, let's do something. So I googled um event management. That's what I wanted to to study project or event management. And there was two places really where I could go the northern part of Sweden, where I thought I was great snowboarding, you know, fantastic. But then the summer parts wouldn't be that exciting. And then I saw Brisbane and I thought Brisbane where is that I had?
Speaker 2:
no idea it wasn't in Sweden. Yeah, no, it was definitely not in Sweden. So I saw that it was in Australia and I just clicked applied. And it was very easy for me to apply. And you know, three weeks later I got a notice, an email, saying hey, congratulations, you start in three weeks. And then I had to tell my parents like, oh, by the way, I'm moving to Australia soon. So that was very much on a whip and nothing that I had planned. I love that, I love it so much.
Speaker 1:
By the way, where were your parents during that time? Because, like, did you just go to high school to Sweden by yourself, or you wanted the whole family to move, like it? It sounds like they were already used to you like going places, like, but I'm sure it was really a shock.
Speaker 2:
Oh yeah, now from Sweden you're just going to Australia, nothing closer yeah, well, my, my father still lives in France, but my mother moved to Sweden when I was 10, so she was already well established in Sweden when I decided to do to do the change. But yeah, I've always been a little bit of a traveler and I think that comes from the DNA. My father is retired now but he was a pilot, so it was really easy for me to get cheap flight tickets. Whenever I could, I would follow him on a flight or travel myself. So it wasn't really a shock for them when I said I moved to Australia. But I do remember my father saying Therese, could you please have chosen somewhere a little bit closer, not, you know, 76 hours away, but that's where I ended up. So, yeah, I was supposed to be there for about a year but ended up loving it so much that I was there for nearly seven.
Speaker 1:
Wonderful. Which part did you love? So, from snowboarding, did you go into surfing, did you try?
Speaker 2:
it. I did try surfing, uh, but only once. I I did manage to stand up on the board, but that was pretty much it. I found quite a few jobs that I enjoyed, and I was studying full-time at university as well, so I had quite a lot on my plate, so I didn't end up surfing too much, but many other things. The thing that I really liked was the, the people, the, the calmness, the no worries, mate attitude, um and uh, and also the weather. Obviously, coming from Sweden, where there's no sun whatsoever, and to Brisbane where there was sun 24 7.
Speaker 1:
Wonderful. So did you study project management or events, or combination?
Speaker 2:
So I studied events management for a year and after that I continued into a Bachelor of Communication with a major in public relations. So very, very open, because I had no idea what I wanted to do. But I knew that if I didn't continue my studies I would never go back. I was so professionally driven, or career driven even at that age, that I thought if I stop I'll never go back. And you know, for the resume sake it's always better to have something coming from a university. So that's what I ended up doing.
Speaker 1:
This is just wonderful. You say you were already career-driven at such a young age, which I absolutely admire and love. Why do you think what? Like? Where was that coming from? Was it always just like being an excellent student, just thinking? You know that's obviously the right thing to do. You just go to university, you do everything by the book very well, then next things will happen. Or was it something else intrinsically? I'm just curious.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I was definitely not a good student. I had, you know, all right grades, but I didn't have all A's or whatever. I think I just found it intriguing that you could do so much for many people. I've always had customer facing roles and and seeing people being happy with what you do and, on top of that, make money out of it. What is there not to love? And and I've always wanted to, and I'm sure we'll speak more about it, but I've always thought to give that extra, a little bit extra than everybody else Do, a little bit more, and that you know ends up giving you a little bit more down the end, whether it's the day afterwards or three years later. It's always a very positive thing, for me at least, to think give that a little bit extra.
Speaker 1:
I really love that approach. It's a motto give a little bit extra. And you went from your university to doing multiple part-time jobs. While studying, You've been in hospitality and then somehow you ended up in customer success. It seems that that mantra giving always a little bit extra was like an old star. Tell me more about that connection and what was that path from hospitality and different things into tech and customer success? How did that happen?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, well, it's an interesting one. So I started working at the age of 15 officially, but did other jobs before that but started in hospitality, really did love it and worked for some really great restaurants and catering companies, both here in Europe Europe but also in Australia. But after I had finished my university degree, I thought let's try something else, and so I started to work in sales, and what I could find was selling raffle tickets in malls shopping malls and then after that I did door knocking for about a year's time, which taught me so much about not only the sales process but how to interact with people and the importance of it and also believing in the product that you're selling. That really is key as well.
Speaker 2:
But after a while, moving back to Sweden and having gotten my first child, I thought I need to find something else. I need to have more of a stable job, but not working late evenings and weekends, and so I was very much focused on selling solar panels at the time and was really knowledgeable within the solar panel industry and had two job offers in front of me. One of them was being a I think it was a call center manager for a solar panel business, and the other one was a customer success manager for an IT company. What a choice. Yeah, I had no idea what customer success was. I had no idea what IT really or the SaaS business was. But what really made me choose that was the manager that was hiring. She or her and I had a really great connection and she, whenever I told her that in three or five years time I'll have your job, she kind of was like all right, let's go for it. Whereas when I told this to the solar panel manager, he was very offensive.
Speaker 1:
Wait, wait, wait. You actually said was it the question where do you see yourself in five years in your career? And you said well, on your place as a manager. Did you actually say that?
Speaker 2:
Yes, I do that at all interviews and that's really testing what the manager will be like towards me or the leader not the manager, but more so the leader. So I said that to the job that I have now and I'll continue saying that, because it's not really about the role itself, it's about the manager and what you can do with it and what you can do with your manager and how you can grow the business together. And it's not like I'm saying, well, I'll kick you out of the organization. It's more so saying, well, I'm going to take your spot, but I'm going to help you take your manager's spot. So, yeah, it definitely is that one question that I always or the answer really that I always have at interviews that is absolutely awesome and I really love how you said this is a way to test your manager as well.
Speaker 1:
It seems that the other manager was not only offensive, but might have been really scared for his own position. You know, might have felt, however, but no, I just love that approach. How smart it is. So that was your path into customer success and most recently, when you joined Pally Go, you were managing the team of customer success managers who then needed to transition to become heavily commercial. Right, talk us through that, like what happened when you started your latest company. How was the CS set up and how are you even going through transitioning them to be fully commercial? I think that's just so timely now, and I would like us to explore a bit of mindset and behaviors that need to take place in order to make the shift for the CS team, while still supporting them and their careers and their well-being Of course, yeah, and we could talk about this for hours, but when I started, pretty much a year ago exactly from now, I was told that the job that we have to do now also renewal, now the CSM team.
Speaker 2:
Nobody really knew how that was going to look like, but that was the job that we had to do for the next couple of quarters not only educating the CSM team but, just like you said, changing their mindset and ensuring that they're somewhat okay with the change and embracing that change. There are going to be failures, there are going to be bumps on the road, but I usually say failure is not an end but's an opening act for either bigger opportunities, uh, so it's really embracing, embracing that mindset, uh, for, for the csms. So we had many different conversations and um, both on an individual level, on a a strategic level, operational level and team level. But what we needed to ensure to do was for the CSM team to get an understanding of what commercial work actually looks like. And, yes, we could have done that ourselves, but we got them to go through the medics training.
Speaker 1:
Or the medics methodology. Can we pause there a bit? Why medic like I, I'm fully supportive of it and I've seen how in so many organizations, csms are just not given not even medic training but so many other sales related training. They are just asked to do the work of commercial systems. So I really love seeing how you started with the mindset shift and then you went into supporting them with medic. So what was it all about medic that you felt they really needed, and how did that help them?
Speaker 2:
That's a very good question. There are many different methodologies that you can try, but the sales team needed to go through some kind of training as well. At the same time, some of us had already gone through the medics training, so we knew about it. I think that was a fairly easy decision for us, knowing that it actually does work. Now, the medics training is very much sales focused. So in the aftermath, what you need to do is also to train the CSM team, incorporating some of those medics components but making it a little bit more CSM relatable.
Speaker 2:
But it's a great start for the CSMs. What you need to be mindful of whenever you do this shift is that the CSM didn't go into the role thinking that they were going to be commercial. They were going to be relationship builders, trust builders. So you need to make them understand that their role is not changing to 100%. They're already doing the trust and the relationship building and they're already helping the customer expanding. It's just that the numbers will then be on the customer success manager, on the account manager. The customer success or the customer will not be in relation with an additional person or sales.
Speaker 1:
It'll solely be the customer success manager, which I trust, which is actually really beneficial for them both and I like how you said you're building the trust. You're delivering that value and that is the basics for expanding the customer and for growing them. Tell me more about those mindset shifts. So we covered a bit of a training and you recommend medic training and it is indeed you know, the best companies out there are best companies in result have their sales team trained in medic. It is very proven methodology I would always recommend for CSM teams. You know you should really do it. Even if you are not having commercial components, it is just a great methodology to know. So that's the training and mindset shifts you already started on. You know you are already building your trust and focusing on the value. What were other types of conversations or maybe some tactics that you needed to incorporate to change the mindset and behavior so that the team feels supported in the transition?
Speaker 2:
Well, I was really lucky, or am really lucky. I've got a really strong CSN team. I've said it before and I'll say it again I don't know if I'll ever be able to work with such a strong team that I haven't chosen myself. I came in after all of them and they're really strong and such a great team. But there is also some acknowledgement, not only for you as a leader, but also for the actual CSMs, to say right, the company is making a strategic decision to make big changes. Do I want to be part of it or not? And do I believe in the changes that they are wanting to do? Do I believe in this shift? And if yes, let's put that work on an individual level and on a team level to make it happen. And if not, then accepting that there is always another route to take.
Speaker 2:
But luckily, my entire team has stayed intact and we're actually expanding within the next couple of weeks. So it really and this goes back a little bit to the medics methodology being able to say no to a customer if it's a bad fit Well, it is very much the same. Within your team, you have to be able to sit down and look at it and say is this really for me or is this really for you? And if not, let's see what else we can do. But luckily, within my team, everyone's been all right with the change. They've understood it, they've accepted it. One's been all right with a change. They've understood it, they've accepted it and they've seen that the customer success world is moving towards a commercial, commercial department.
Speaker 1:
So yeah, this episode is brought to you by gainsight, the complete customer success platform. Grow your business faster and more efficiently with a single, ai-powered suite that enables you to deliver value to customers at every moment of their journey. With Gainsight's customer communities, product experience, customer success and customer education products, it's never been easier to scale your business, grow your revenue and retain your customers. Firstly, congratulations for having your team intact in that big transition that very many companies don't do well and they see lots of attrition in so many different ways. Companies you know don't don't do well and they see lots of attrition in so many different ways.
Speaker 1:
Once your team accepted and saw that is a good, strategic, strategic move, what were the things that they were asking for? Was it uh? Did they say, oh, we, we really need more sales training? Or you recognized loads of different gaps, like, like, what were they asked to feel better supported in the process? As you said, when they all were hired, they were hired just to build relationships, so there is a different skill set that was needed for them to proceed in the new roles.
Speaker 2:
That's a really interesting question. I asked everyone in our one-on-ones what is it that motivates you? Is it money? Is it some extra time off? Is it knowing that the customer is feeling great about you? Is it personal recognition? What is it? And the majority of the team said money, and so a lot of our conversations were around compensation and what their quotas would be, what their portfolio of customer looks like now, what they can do to increase it. So a lot of it was in regards to the compensation component. How can they make even more money? Because they knew that they would be able to sell additional licenses, upsell, cross-sell and everything.
Speaker 2:
But I was very interested. I didn't think that those were the type of conversations that I'd have with CSMs. With account managers or sales people I would, but not CSMs.
Speaker 1:
So yeah, which is really interesting because why not? People can be motivated by money, and they are, and very often it is a good thing when they are making right decisions for their customers and in this transition it can just help them, almost embrace it even quicker and try to do whatever they can to move forward in the right direction. Therese, that was the team transition. What were the other things you had to do in terms of processes or methodologies? I can imagine there was, and still there are, so many things on your plate, but when you're starting out with that transition, what were some of the main things to look at?
Speaker 2:
firstly, Definitely a lot of different processes that needs to be reviewed where ownership really needed to be secured, and analysed where account managers did part of the work before now moving it to fully CSM functional processes has been big discussions and, with us taking on even more work, we needed to almost allocate other parts of our daily work to other departments, such as the professional services or the onboarding team or the solution or, you know, solution engineers or informational architects, just because that commercial part is quite a big part of our daily work now. So absolutely the the processes and also the communication and the processes with the sales, and not losing that connection that we previously had is something that we definitely need to and it's an ongoing process but need to refine and see how do we work together, even though we're not working actively together because we're not taking part of each other's deals anymore. So that for sure, is something that we're working with on a daily basis.
Speaker 1:
I can imagine that moving CS teams into commercial team was strategic decision from the top of the company. However, it seems that you are an incredibly important link I'm not saying missingly, but the link. As you said, there were so many negotiations to be done with other departments about the roles, because very often that is the first point of struggles between the teams if the roles are not properly defined. So what have been your lesson in trying to negotiate all of those different dynamics while building new processes for everybody? It seems that so many, like the whole post-sales and sales departments, are involved. What did you learn? What would you say can work really well?
Speaker 2:
You really need to be open-minded and see all cases to one story. So in CSM I might have a belief of one thing, but I need to understand the CFO and the CRO's point of view and the sales team's point of view before being able to make the right decision for the CSM team. So not making decisions on the spot, but actually being very much open-minded and seeing what has sales done in the past. Has that worked? Has that not worked? But also listening to the team. The team knows best. They listen to the customer as they see what is happening on a day-to-day basis with the customers. That's really why we're here and the team letting them being involved in some decisions, or at least hearing their points of views, I think is really important. Least hearing their points of views, I think is really important. That's a big part of my management style being transparent, as transparent as I can, because that's how we as a team will succeed.
Speaker 1:
I like how you're thinking of bringing them as part of the journey, having them create the whole new processes together with you and having their say not only saying this has come from above. This is what we are doing from tomorrow. What?
Speaker 2:
Excellent. No, I'm just the messenger. Really, it's the team to build this new department, to create all of those new processes. I just try to help them to go the right way. That's how I see it.
Speaker 1:
Lovely observation, but I would say you're too humble, way too humble. You are much more than a messenger. You're the next CRO. I know that. But tell me now, just a year after, where are you in that transition now? Is the team fully transitioned? How do they feel about everything? What is their feedback after probably a few of the extra paychecks and a few commissions already landed? I mean, it's been a very bumpy year.
Speaker 2:
I can't hide that it hasn't been smooth whatsoever. There's been lots of processes that I've been needing to be reviewed and created, so it really has been a bumpy year, but we're starting to seeing the fruits of all of the work that we've put in throughout the past year. So definitely the paychecks. Seeing the team not only achieving their goals but the majority of them overachieving, sometimes by 250%, has been amazing, so very, very happy for them. We still have a lot of work to do, but overall they are very much do, but overall they are very much, um, I think, accepting this new way of working um and, even though they might not say it to my face, embracing the change and being happy that they have been through this journey with poligo um and and doing it as a team. So the future definitely looks bright.
Speaker 1:
I'm absolutely sure that your future and your future career definitely looks bright as well. I mentioned a few minutes ago you're the next CRO and it's still unofficial, obviously, but you had a conversation with your boss telling him well, yeah, I am going to be next, you next CRO. I wonder how did that go? And I'm just still amazed that you are having that transparency, talking to your managers about what is next in your career in the most respectful way, focusing on your personal development and growth For everybody listening. I would like to hear how you do it. How do you go about those conversations and how do you see that personal development, always thinking of that next step in your career while obviously doing the excellent work in your current role?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, well, when I started this role, I started as a head of customer success, so I did have a vice president, which is the manager who hired me, and I told him well, I'll take your job in three to five years time. Now, with things happening within the organization, I got promoted just a few months ago ago half a year ago to director, which was fantastic, and my the manager that I report to is the cro, so I needed to have that conversation with him as well, not for him, but more so for me, knowing where can I put him, when are we going to work great together, or are we going to work in parallel? Or how is it going to work? And asking such a question or telling a person such thing is very much shocking for the majority of people, I can imagine. Very much shocking for the majority of people, I can imagine. And you're really putting them on the spot. You rarely have someone else asking or telling you such things. So it really was putting him on the spot. But, if I remember it correctly, we almost brought it up at the same time, so he was as supportive of it as as I am looking for it. Um, so that really was a great comfort knowing that we are working towards same goals, for from my personal or professional growth, but also for his um right. So it's always about doing that a little bit extra.
Speaker 2:
Going back to your question, giving that extra 10%, saying yes the majority of the time is really important. And even though I do have a family and I do have two small children who are six and almost five, I can always do more and I have a half of a team in the US. Well, I see it as I'm lucky. My kids go to sleep at 8pm, because that means that I can work after that, whereas some people might say, well, my day ends at five because my kids are home. I choose to have more of that lifestyle where I do a little bit of everything, and that will turn out great, instead of being an expert into one specific field. So it's a very broad question. But yeah, giving that 10% extra all the time, even though you might not feel like it'll give you anything, is really, really key.
Speaker 1:
It's interesting how you are giving 10% extra for your current activities and current roles but in the same time, that is becoming the growth and development that you need to move forward, or even a month when it comes to personal development, as you're thinking about your next step, because everybody are busy and calendars get busy for you know official learnings. So how do you develop yourself?
Speaker 2:
you mentioned it right in the beginning. When we met a few weeks or months ago, I said oh, I love your, your, I listen to it when I do my nails and there is always, there's never, an empty spot in my mind or in my ears. I always listen to something, whether it's a podcast or YouTube videos always to learn and speaking to people, always being able to network and ask sometimes silly questions or what I would think is silly questions, but it's more so to be a silly answer, and I try to have that as a mindset. I won't be able to ask silly questions, but there will be a silly answer, and it's always being curious and wanting to know more. So listening to your podcast whenever I do my nails is relaxing, yet very inspiring, listening to other people achieving great things, but I also have the capability to learn some or get some tips and tricks. So very much listening to other podcasts, listening to the news and reading books whenever times and times fits. It is definitely something that I do on a daily basis for sure.
Speaker 1:
I so much love that advice because I'm personally an audio person. I would go for a walk, go for a run, whatever cook dinner for kids. I would try to listen to something because I also process it really best when I'm listening. I don't even have to see it in front of me in a video best when I'm listening. I don't even have to see it in front of me in the video. So definitely.
Speaker 1:
Podcasts are absolutely amazing ways of learning and, I believe, of changing your mindset when it's needed, because you're doing that almost in the conversation and through listening. Therese, you have given us so many great tips about transitioning teams, developing your own career, but I also applaud you so much as you are, I know, a fantastic mother but also a very career-driven, knowing what is next for you, but also doing it all in a very mindful way, taking time for your family when needed. Now, I have always been inspired by Scandinavia, as you guys would take the whole July off, because that's what you have to do and that is normal, standard thing. There are so many other parts of the world and I'm sure there are many listeners who are in those parts of the world and I'm sure there are many listeners who are in those parts of the world where holidays and PTOs are a dream, sometimes only so. How do you do it? Taking a month off and obviously still being extremely successful, doing really well and making sure everybody are taken care of. What are the benefits?
Speaker 2:
yeah, um, and it's such a luxury, uh, being very humble about it, we know that we are very lucky to to get these amount of of times off.
Speaker 2:
And there is this, whether it's a law or a regulation, but your employer is not allowed to say no to four consecutive weeks during summertime, so that's four weeks where you can shut your computer off, leave the phone somewhere else and just spend time with friends, family.
Speaker 2:
Whatever you want to do, it does work in the Scandinavian countries and in the European countries, because the majority of the people do it, and so we know that in June or July or even August, it is the quieter month. Obviously, with such a large team or larger teams, you make sure that not the entire team is off at the same time that you need to be able to manage right. But it is needed for organizations to give their employees time off to find some other goodies in life than coming to work nine to five and to sit in front of that screen to be able to then come back to work and have a good experience, some good time off, and enjoy work coming up. So I'd say, you know, if everyone could, is life beyond work, and they work, so they could have an amazing life.
Speaker 1:
I'm european myself, so summers are off by by default, or off maybe. Maybe not completely off, but you know, the priority is kids and families and trying to do something with them. I think it's so much easier in europe, as every time and we are planning anything with customers. You know that scandinavians will be off in July. You know that Germans, french and Italians will be off in August and you're planning your activities and it is awesome and I believe there is so much positive psychology in it, creating almost a calendar year for work, as it is for academic year, where you have that summertime off and then September is very often almost a new beginning and that's where you start planning for that last quarter and the new year and there is so much refreshment that comes into the picture after taking the time off. Yeah, we may be blessed, for sure, but it is definitely a great business strategy as well that I hope more businesses outside Europe adopt as well.
Speaker 2:
No, absolutely. I agree with you 200%. Now I do have half of my team in the US and they obviously don't get four weeks off in summertime, which is definitely something that I would want to see changing, but for that reason, almost I divide my summer just to ensure that there's always someone there to support them whenever needed, and ensuring also that they're taking time off during summer, although they might not have as many days as we have, ensuring to see that they've booked those extra days off to take some time for themselves and take a little bit of a break for sure.
Speaker 1:
Therese, this has been such a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for coming to the show. As we are wrapping up, would you like to reveal what is your favourite activity that you are doing during your time off?
Speaker 2:
Well, wow, I've got two One pre-kid which is travelling in a 13-kilo backpack including tents and all of that yeah.
Speaker 2:
I've backpacked through Africa by myself, through India and Pakistan, so definitely taking the less traveled roads, but now with kids. A couple of years ago we bought a country house and renovating that and doing some gardening and just being able to move from, you know, the cement jungle that we live in, which is right in the middle of the city, to the actual jungle where the kids can just run outside and see the beautiful world that we have is for sure fantastic, wonderful.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for coming to the show. For everybody who wants to connect with Therese, we will put her LinkedIn profile in the show notes so people can get in touch. Thanks, therese. Thank you Maria. Thank you for listening. Next week new episode. Subscribe to the podcast and connect with me on linkedin so you're up to date with all the new episodes and the content I'm curating for you. Have a great day and talk to you soon.