Women in Customer Success Podcast

135 - How to Transition from Recruitment into Customer Success - Ewa Zajac

• Marija Skobe-Pilley • Episode 135

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How can the skills you’ve learned in one job help you succeed in a completely different field? 

My guest is Ewa Zajac, a customer success leader at Social Talent, shares her unique journey from recruitment to customer success.

Ewa talks about her career transitions, the importance of relationship building, and the transferable skills between recruitment and customer success. She also talks about the challenges she faced stepping into a leadership role without a traditional customer success background and how she empowered her team to thrive.

In this episode:

  • Career transitions
  • The evolution of technology and career paths
  • Time management and productivity
  • The importance of appreciating the present
  • Ewa's journey into recruitment
  • Transferable skills between recruitment and customer success
  • Red flags on CVs
  • The impact of AI on recruitment
  • Effective assessment techniques for CSM candidates
  • Transitioning into customer success
  • Empowering teams as a leader
  • Leading without experience

Ready to learn how to handle career changes, build stronger relationships, and grow in any role? Don’t miss this inspiring conversation with Ewa Zajac. Tune in now!

Follow Ewa.

This episode was brought to you by Vitally.



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About Women in Customer Success Podcast:

Women in Customer Success Podcast is the first women-only podcast for Customer Success professionals, where remarkable ladies of Customer Success connect, inspire and champion each other.


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Host Marija Skobe-Pilley


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Speaker 1:

This episode is brought to you by Vitally. Vitally is bringing in a new era of customer success productivity. With their all-in-one customer success platform, Vitally gives you unmatched visibility into your company's health and success, and now you can measure operational strategies on customer outcomes at scale with goals, directly in Vitally. Exciting news for all the listeners Vitaly are also giving away a free pair of AirPods for all Women in Customer Success podcast listeners when you take a qualified demo with them. If you're in the market looking for a CS platform, make sure you visit vitalyio slash women vitalallyio slash women to book your demo and get your AirPods. And now let's get into the episode.

Speaker 1:

Hey, welcome back to the Women in Customer Success podcast. We are just kicking off the new year and I'm super excited to share a few updates with you. Firstly, we are going on a roadshow this year. Not only you can keep on listening to the podcast regularly while you are going for a walk or running, but you also have a chance to share those moments with us live in person. We have a few cities planned out for doing a live recording of the podcast with some special guests, and we are starting out in London on the 29th of January. You can still join us if you would like to, if you're around. You will find the link in the show notes. Also, if you would like us to come to a city close to you, just fill in a quick survey and let us know where you're based and whether you would like us to come and record live so you can take part as well. The link is in the show notes. And second update again, I want to be closer to you, closer to the audience this year and I keep on getting some questions, mostly within our communities. But I would like to take your questions to the podcast and kind of mind your business. So if you think that there is some questions that you would like me or my guests to answer, email us on podcast at womenincsco. If you send a voice message, then your voice can also become part of our episodes. So if you have questions for us can also become part of our episodes. So if you have questions for us, the address is podcast at womenscsco. Again, it's written in the show notes. I really can't wait to spend more time with you in person this year and I'm really looking forward to meeting you in one of our events.

Speaker 1:

And now off to the episode. I think this one will be a special one. It's new year, new directions, new decisions and maybe new career for some of you. Are you also looking for some change, maybe new role or promotion? Or have you been listening for some time but haven't been yet in customer success? This year may just be the year when you secure your first role.

Speaker 1:

In this episode, you will meet Eva Zajac, a customer success leader who spent years of her career in recruitment before she transitioned into customer success. You will hear how to position yourself for a role in a new industry and what is the process to follow to secure a role. I know you will find many of Eva's nuggets really interesting and I am completely sure that this episode can help you in your career this year. So let's get on with it. Hi everyone, this is Maria Scobepile and you're listening to Women in Customer Success podcast, the first women-only podcast where remarkable ladies of customer success share their stories and practical tools to help you succeed and make an impact. If you want to learn more about customer success, get career advice and be inspired, you're in the right place, so let's tune in. Welcome to the new episode of the Women in Customer Success podcast Today. It's a real treat and a pleasure to welcome Eva Zajac. Eva is a customer success leader at Social Talent and I'm super excited about this conversation today. Eva, welcome to the show, Thank you, Maria.

Speaker 2:

I'm very delighted to be here and share some insights and have a nice chat. Thank you for having me For everybody listening.

Speaker 1:

We're going to go into a particularly interesting conversation, but what would you say? What's the main thing that you would like people to get out of this episode or the main thing they can expect from this conversation?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sure, I think career transitions is a topic that's very close to me because I come from a recruiting background and I spent eight plus years working as a recruiter and then, just in the past two and a half years, I've been working in customer success. So I changed domains and I also changed from an individual contributor role to a leadership role and then, furthermore, I career coached several people when kind of closer to my recruiting days. So I love the topic of career transitions and, yeah, I think this will be a good one.

Speaker 1:

I love the topic of career transitions as, yeah, I think this will be a good one. I love the topic of career transitions as well and I'm super excited because I feel that the audience is going to get some valuable coaching today. So, before we get into the details and all the tactics, into how, eva, let's get the audience get to know you a bit better. Sure, where are you?

Speaker 2:

based? I'm based in Dublin in Ireland. What languages do you speak? So English, and I also speak fluent Spanish, because I spent seven years living in Spain before I came to Ireland and then originally I'm from Poland, so I speak Polish as well. Awesome.

Speaker 1:

That's already three very fluent languages, wow yes, I found um.

Speaker 2:

I've always enjoyed learning languages. It's a really nice way to broaden your kind of concepts that you can use to describe the world, um, and get some new experiences through language absolutely, I love spanish.

Speaker 1:

Unfortunately, my spanish is nowhere near conversational, but it's one of the languages I really love. I love reading, I love hearing. It's a very happy language, very happy. Yes, eva, would you describe yourself as an extrovert or an introvert or something else? I think probably an ambivalent. Oh, I love that one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in the sense that I really like socializing and I do get a lot of, you know, satisfaction from being able to speak to people and get that energy, but I also really like to have my focus time and my quiet reading time and sometimes I really need that to recharge. So I think I have elements of both, depending on the situation.

Speaker 1:

Do you think you have been like that all your life, or you had different seasons where there was an emphasis on one or the other?

Speaker 2:

Probably when, like in my younger years, I'd say I was more of an introvert and then, kind of, as I got a little bit older, I became a little bit more needing my reflection time. So I think I'm probably trending more towards an introvert with the years passing.

Speaker 1:

Good to hear. Now I'm interested to know would a 16-year-old ever be surprised to find you here in your current life, in your current career?

Speaker 2:

Definitely. First of all, I never imagined myself working in any kind of technology-related job or industry, Because when I was growing up I really enjoyed languages and history and kind of the social sciences side of things, and I actually went to college to study psychology and I got a master's in psychology and then I went on to study gender studies and I got a master's in psychology and then I went on to study gender studies and I got another master's in that. So basically technology was never on my radar. But then when I came to Dublin I discovered the world of software as a service companies and I ended up working at Intercom, which is an Irish company building customer support software, and they were at that time in this phase of very intense growth and I just got so embedded into that world and I discovered just how much I enjoyed it.

Speaker 2:

And so definitely the 16-year-old me would be like tech. I mean, I don't like maths, I don't like physics, I don't like you know, I'm not really that interested in the machines, I'm much more interested in people. But actually this industry really suits me. So yeah, it's been an interesting journey that you never know where you're going to end up eventually.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I love that story and also how things and technology changed since we were 16-year-olds, right, and what we used to think more of as machines or tech technology. We see how it is all about people currently, especially in the world of SaaS. So again, in a way, it comes back to your psychology.

Speaker 2:

Yeah sure, and the democratization of technology is continuing right, so it's becoming easier and easier for people without a tech background to get involved and to use it on a daily basis. I'm specifically thinking of AI right now and the fact that you are able to create a website using a chat, gpt or another large language model without ever having learned to code. So I think we're going to see more of that as the technology progresses and continues to develop, but for sure it's a different world than what I imagined as a 16-year-old Ewa.

Speaker 1:

what's the latest book that really got you that you would want to share with the audience?

Speaker 2:

So it's not so much a latest book, but it's one that I quote a lot and I recommend to a lot of people because it spoke so much to kind of the way that I perceived productivity and time management.

Speaker 2:

And the book is 4,000 Weeks by Oliver Barkman and basically what he covers is he is a self-proclaimed ex-productivity geek, so you know he was a person who was really interested in all sorts of methods of doing more with your time during the day.

Speaker 2:

And then in his pursuit he kind of realized that he was always kind of falling short of his own expectations, that no matter how much how productive he was trying to be and how many different to-do lists and other time management like principles he tried to use, he was really never achieving the level of productivity that he wanted.

Speaker 2:

And so he wrote this book where he talks about how, fundamentally, we are never going to succeed in this productivity pursuit because our lifespan is limited and it's an inevitable thing that we were never. We are never going to be able to do all the things that we want to do and it's kind of like a limitation of our human condition condition and basically you kind of need to understand it and accept it to be able to get more value out of the time that you have rather than trying to create more time, and so this is something that I use a lot both in my professional and personal life right now, when I'm trying to decide what's worth pursuing and trying to be very deliberate about you know what I say yes to versus what I say no to. So great book, many insights that, like, I could talk for hours about this book.

Speaker 2:

So I really recommend it for reading and reflection.

Speaker 1:

Can you repeat the title 4,000 Weeks, 4,000.

Speaker 2:

Weeks by Oliver Berkman, and the 4,000 Weeks comes from the fact that an average person's lifespan is about 4,000 weeks if you live about 80 years. So you're kind of going OK, it's not actually that many weeks, you know, because maybe you're halfway there already. You know, maybe you're 2,000 weeks in, so you only have 2,000 more weeks in your life, and how are you going to spend?

Speaker 1:

them is the question. Thank you so much for that recommendation. I really love it. Concept of time-bound activity or time-bound editing just recently, maybe last year or so, I came across that research about how much time we spend with our families and our children in the course of a lifespan, and my daughter was eight, so she's nine years old now and it hit me I was like, oh gosh, so basically by the age of 18, you spend 75% of overall time with your children that you will ever spend.

Speaker 1:

So what am I doing? Like I have to have that time with her. So I really like this comparison. So, no matter what you do in life, there is always that limitations and in some ways, we as a society became addicted to productivity and just keeping ourselves busy for the sake of feeling that we are productive, as if there is our purpose in life, as if there is nothing else. When, on another hand, time is ticking off and you can just take on a wagon, few things at a time, you can't just strive to get as productive as possible and maybe miss out very important things in life in that pursuit of productivity.

Speaker 2:

For sure. And when you're rushing from one thing to the next, you're never kind of appreciating the moment for what it is. So, relating it back to, for example, the work scenario, if you're always thinking about what's the next step, where do I need to go from here, like you know, where do I want to end up and kind of what else do I need to get done, you're not appreciating the situation that you're currently in. Appreciating the situation that you're currently in, whereas maybe you know the you from a few years back would be looking at the you of today going, wow, this is amazing. You know, you have everything that I wanted to have a few years back and you have it now. So why are you not appreciating it and making the most of it in the current moment?

Speaker 1:

so it's very philosophical but you, you, you got me. You got me not only thinking, but I, from one hand, I would feel exactly well, a year ago I wanted to be where I am now. But now I'm like, yeah, what is what am I doing there? What is this, what is that like? Why do I have to thank you so much for this? This is wonderful. So what was your journey into recruitment? And then I'm interested later on, what was that environment around you that made you made a move into tech?

Speaker 2:

yeah, so I was really into people, interested in in people, how people think, how people make decisions, what motivates people. This is why I went to study psychology, and a lot of my friends from university who studied the same degree they went into HR and recruitment roles. It was just a pretty normal kind of career choice for that discipline. But I didn't end up going into it until a few years after I finished studying, because I guess you could call me a bit of a late bloomer in that respect that I took a few years to kind of figure out where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do and just to kind of live life. Yes, yeah, definitely. It was a great time. I really enjoyed it. I was living in Spain, it was lovely and sunny and I had loads of friends and very great social life. Basically I had a really great time.

Speaker 2:

But anyway, I then wanted to finally kind of get started on my career track, and so recruiting seemed like a really good match because it gave me that people exposure and there was also a lot of demand for recruiters in the Dublin companies at that time. And so then I spent eight plus years working in that domain, working in that domain, first at Intercom. Well, actually, I started in a recruiting agency, then I moved to Intercom, then I moved to Zendesk, which is another company building customer service software, and then from there I transitioned into social talent. And the funny thing about it is that previously I was doing recruiting for companies that built customer support software and then I went into a company that teaches recruiting excellent, but I went there to do customer success. So I felt like it was a really good mix of, and kind of like a really natural transition, because the disciplines were very similar and you know, it's all about the customer and it's all about recruiting and it's like a nice combination of these two topics which seemed like a very natural path.

Speaker 1:

So, when we are thinking about all the correlations between recruitment and customer success, what are some of the first associations that come to mind that people could start thinking about, especially if there is somebody listening who is in recruitment currently and thinking about the world of customer success? What are immediate things that stand out that they could think of their value proposition?

Speaker 2:

Sure. So I see a lot of very transferable skills and very important similarities in terms of why these two disciplines exist and what one does when you're working in either recruiting or customer success. So the first one is relationship building, relationship management. In both jobs, you really need to focus on your stakeholder and you're always kind of the in-between person, because when you're a recruiter, you have your candidates and you have your hiring managers and you're in between and you're the connector. In customer success, you have your customers and you have your business. You have other teams within your business who build the product or who create the content, as is the case in social talent right. Who create the content. As is the case in social talent right, we sell online learning, so we have video content and we have a team that creates that content. So, again, you're that connector between the business and the customer, and so it's really important that you focus on relationship building, that you are able to establish trust, that you can communicate effectively with very different people, whether it's your candidates or your customers. You really have to understand their needs and manage their expectations, and these are very important skills and very transferable.

Speaker 2:

And the other two I would call out would be problem solving and data driven decision making. So you kind of need to always be willing to troubleshoot, always be willing to find solutions. So it's very consultative and I'm sure that people who work in customer success will know that to be consultative, you need to back your arguments with data, and so you need to. You know you need to show that the numbers tell a story about something that the customer needs to understand, to pursue, so that you can persuade them to pursue a certain course of action. Right Change management requires that data focus. So again, a big similarity between the two. Because in recruiting, you have to persuade hiring managers using data to broaden their search into different markets, or you need to help them assess candidates and select the right person for the job, and that sort of thing. Data is very important.

Speaker 1:

Speaking about data in recruitment very often, is it right to think that CV is one of the biggest pieces of data almost that you have in front of you? Okay, maybe we forget it, Maybe it's not a good positioning. Maybe we forget it, maybe it's not a good positioning, but what I actually wanted to find from you when you said, like, how to help hiring managers persuade them into different things. So when you are looking into candidates with your recruitment or recruiting hat on, what are the immediate, immediate red flags on the CV and what are the things that immediately stand out? So, from format, content, everything together, like what do you notice within first seven seconds?

Speaker 2:

I think something that will probably never change is the lack of effort that you know. If somebody didn't put any effort into this document, that's supposed to be their first impression, the first kind of marketing document that they're putting out there, that's a big red flag.

Speaker 1:

How does that look like Not caring about it?

Speaker 2:

it Lack of attention to detail, maybe mistakes, typos, lack of, for example, not adjusting what you're saying to the audience.

Speaker 2:

So not keeping in mind that you need to present the kind of core information that somebody will be looking for when they're reviewing your document, right, Just kind of putting a word salad out there. That's a bad sign. But I have to say, since we're talking about CVs, that in the world of recruiting right now there is a very interesting situation that's happening with the use of AI, because we're seeing a huge increase in the number of candidates who use ChatGPT and the likes to adjust and personalize their application and their profile, their CV, to every single job that they're applying to. So what recruiters are seeing right now is an influx of very, very strong looking CVs, you know, very strong looking CVs, you know, and this is actually creating a problem of being able to actually differentiate on the basis of a CV. So there's a lot of discussion in the recruiting community about what's next like, how are we going to get through that problem, because the CV as such is beginning to really lose its utility for that initial stage of the recruiting process.

Speaker 1:

Interesting. You just got me thinking like I haven't been in a job market for some time, but I was as a hiring manager, so it's interesting to see how yeah, exactly as I said, in five minutes somebody can just adjust everything so that it is just to my likeness as a hiring manager, just to be presented with everything that I want to hear, exactly.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Maybe, on another hand, I should look for something that is too good to be true and then just eliminate.

Speaker 2:

Well. So we need to be more creative, and I have always been a big fan of assessments that use some element of work samples or role plays where you can witness the person doing a similar task that they would be doing in their role. So, for example, when I was running the hiring process for my current team, we used a role play scenario for all CSM candidates to basically run a customer call and myself and a couple of other panelists were pretending to be the customer. Panelists were pretending to be the customer and we gave them a script and there was a task for the CSM to basically uncover certain needs of this customer on the call. And that was an extremely useful exercise to really understand the strengths and weaknesses of each candidate, because you could really see how they show up on the call, the level of energy that they have on the call, the types of questions they ask the customer, for example, were they curious? Were they able to dig a little deeper beneath the surface? Because we shared information but we didn't give them all the information all at once. We kind of held back a little bit to see if they were able to dive a little bit deeper into it. And another thing we looked at was how action-oriented was the CSM on this call in terms of arranging next steps with the customer right? So not ending the call without arranging you know the next meeting or providing you know an overview of what were the pieces of collateral that the CSM was going to send to this customer afterwards. And then the final thing was we asked the candidates to send a summary email from the call. So we were checking how well they captured the information that they needed to capture and how they phrased the email to the customer. Did they provide all the things they promised they would provide? And then again how they would communicate and kind of drive the next steps, the urgency. So it was a super useful exercise and I think it really allowed us to select really the best candidates for the role.

Speaker 1:

I really loved that example because very often what I have seen in recruitment of CSMs there is some sort of presentation EBR or something similar for the final presentation, but what you're saying is it's just so much simpler but could be so much more effective, because the first thing that you want CSMs to be doing is to master it out of follow-up right and comprehending what happened on the call and what needs to happen next. So this is so simple and immediately you can hopefully do it in a way that you can assess many different people for it and then just eliminate many. This is an amazing example.

Speaker 2:

And it's also very fair because everybody gets the same script and everybody is doing the same exercise. So you can, you know, in terms of like, candidate diversity, I think it's really good because we interviewed people who didn't always come from a CSM background, so we had candidates in the process from other disciplines and that exercise, I think, really gave them the opportunity to demonstrate their skills, even when they couldn't speak about their skills in the behavioral questions because they didn't work as a CSM before. So you know they can't tell you things like. You know. How did you make sure that? You know there was follow up with your customers about the action items you know? Because how could they answer? But on the call they were able to show it Show rather than tell.

Speaker 1:

I think this is awesome and somehow I feel I may be completely wrong I feel that also has something to do with your background of, you know, not having a CS background, and then you transitioned into customer success. So that's also for me now it's just an interesting correlation, as I would like to hear how did you transition? Because you were also in a situation when you needed to present yourself, your skills, your previous experience in the context of customer success, although you may have not had the exact experience. So how did you go about it?

Speaker 2:

Do you mean in my interviews or later on the job?

Speaker 2:

Probably both Okay.

Speaker 2:

So in interviews, I was very open about the fact that you know I haven't done this job before, but I focused on the transferable skills and I used a lot of examples of similarities.

Speaker 2:

So, for example, when I was asked about how I would deal with, you know, a C-level stakeholder on the customer side who was unhappy or who was in some ways challenging, my answer would be well, I haven't actually dealt with you know that specific scenario, but I can tell you about the C-level executive that I worked with as a recruiter and how I dealt with pushback on their side, about you know how we were going to be searching for candidates because I was working on a hiring process for a specific role for that person, and so that was really helpful. Again, always focusing on like, how would you do the job using what you have, rather than letting the lack of specific examples can hold you back. But then on the job, what I did find challenging, especially at the beginning when I stepped into the leadership role for the team, was the fact that I had never done their job before.

Speaker 2:

Interesting, yeah, and that was more of a challenge than I expected, because the team at the time, the previous manager was very familiar with all the ins and outs of the product and it was somebody who could, you know, troubleshoot every technical issue and was very, very familiar with the entire like internal landscape, and I wasn't. And so my team members were coming to me with these technical questions and issues and expecting me to be able to kind of step in and just resolve them, and I couldn't do it, and so I think that created a little bit of frustration at the beginning, especially with kind of team members going what's going on here? I'm bringing this to my manager and she's not helping. You know, she's not solving this. So I basically had to be very direct in explaining kind of what I know and what I don't know and what I can help with versus what I can't, and then basically focusing on how I can unblock that person to go and search for the answers elsewhere. So, rather than taking the task on taking the ownership of this task myself the ownership of this task myself, you know going okay, who in the business can I engage and pull in so that you can ask them the questions that you need and they can you know, and we can like push this forward. So that was helpful.

Speaker 2:

But I also did another thing, which was I put myself through new joiner onboarding. Good, even though at that moment I had been in the company for like at least nine months, I'd say, but because I started in a different role, I'd never gone through like the product onboarding. So I put myself through it as if I was a new joiner and that was really helpful. And then one final thing I did was when we were hiring new people onto the team, I engaged one of our top performing CSMs to help prepare an onboarding plan. And that was a great move because she did a great job putting together a very comprehensive list of tasks and list of things that they needed to know about that I wouldn't have been able to compile by myself. So, anyways, empowering your team is key.

Speaker 1:

Actually, it's so interesting because in my head now I'm trying to make sense of it all. In my head, you're a perfect leader who is really empowering people to find the answers, to expand their networks internally, just to be a bit more resourceful, and in that way, you are unblocking them. You're empowering them and they can take more ownership into things. Unblocking them, you're empowering them and they can take more ownership into things. If we speak about managerial, for me that's again there is a little bit of a difference. Uh, it's interesting.

Speaker 1:

As you said, you haven't, you have never done the job that they were actually doing. But then what is actually needed for csm's, like, do they need to be empowered or do they need somebody who will physically resolve their technical problems? It's probably a debate. There are probably pros and cons in both, but I just like how you are aware of it. But you presented it almost as a not deficiency, but almost a problem you had and you needed to figure out how to go about it. I would also think well, that's really good, because that gives more agency to CSMs to come up with solutions and just be more proactive. Yeah, interesting to hear your perspective. If you could choose, do you think that you would choose typically to do the job of the people that you're managing, like how much? How important is that really to lead a team?

Speaker 2:

I think it's important to a degree in the sense that it certainly makes it easier, I think, to. If you know the job like the back of your hand there are. I think you can be that little bit kind of more confident that you know certain ways of doing the job are better than other ways of doing it. There is a lot of question marks in the back of your mind, kind of going oh wait, a minute, is this the you know, is what my CSM doing like? Is that the right way or maybe there is a different way?

Speaker 2:

But as I'm saying that, I think there's also that danger that if you have done the job yourself and you know it like the back of your hand, you're going to be too prescriptive and you're going to want everybody to do it just the way that you did it, and I don't think that would give your team the opportunity to make it their own, you know, and bring their own kind of individual slant on it and the individual strengths. So yeah, I think it kind of it depends. I guess the most annoying answer that I can give right is it depends.

Speaker 1:

It's true, and I really like how you said it. At the end of the day, sometimes it's all about empowering those other people and taking their own personal strength into the role and you, as a leader, recognizing it and helping them flourish in whichever role they are. Yeah, eva, what has been the best career advice that you have received in your life? Oh, the best career advice.

Speaker 2:

Or the most useful I think it would be to continue to be open to opportunities, because oftentimes I think it kind of links to what we were talking at the beginning about the 4,000 weeks and the people being impatient for the next step and that kind of thing. I think if you have a very strong notion of what is meant to be happening, you can miss the other opportunities that are maybe not as obvious, that are happening and that can lead you into very interesting places. And so I've always tried to keep an open mind in terms of where I can deploy my skills that will bring me satisfaction and bring the value to the business. But it doesn't necessarily have to be some predefined role or predefined level or predefined type of company. I think it's good to keep that openness and keep your skills broad and keep kind of continuously learning new things, because there are many things that you can do that provide value and also it's more interesting. It's definitely more interesting.

Speaker 1:

If you keep learning new things, that's where the fun bit is absolutely, and when you're saying yes to opportunities. You end up in technology, like we did, or you end up in places that you never expected you would, and you can just find yourself in so many amazing places and opportunities for sure, and you discovered maybe things that you didn't think you would like just find yourself in so many amazing places and opportunities, for sure, and you discovered, maybe, things that you didn't think you would like, but you actually do, as what we like tech, now, although we never liked technology yes, for sure, eva, this has been such a pleasure.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much for joining me on the show.

Speaker 2:

Thank you very much, maria, and likewise great, great chatting with you and thanks, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening. Next week new episode, Subscribe to the podcast and connect with me on LinkedIn so you're up to date with all the new episodes and the content I'm curating for you. Have a great day and talk to you soon.