Behind The ToolBelt featuring Insights into the Roofing Industry with Alan Lopez

Have you ever wondered about the journey of a successful GAF employee and trainer, navigating through the roofing industry? Get prepared for an enriching chat with Alan Lopez who found an unexpected career in the roofing industry and has been a part of the GAF family since 2010. In this intriguing conversation, Alan offers you an inside look into his life, sharing his experience as a trainer and how he balances work with familial commitments.

The episode also delves into the evolution of CARE, an essential training program for roofing installation and sales processes. You'll hear from seasoned professionals who have built their careers in this industry and learn about the individuals who inspired them to take the leap towards success. Listen closely as they unpack the significant role of trainers in instilling the company's values and helping contractors achieve their goals. 

As we navigate the podcast, we touch on how we created this platform to stay connected during the pandemic. You'll hear real-life stories from motivated individuals, like Christian Flores, a proud member of the Latino roofing community who started his own business. We also discuss sales training, coaching, and the importance of seizing opportunities. In the final part of the episode, we break down the financial aspects of the roofing business, giving you insight into understanding overhead costs and the importance of investing in your team. This episode is a treasure trove of practical advice, industry insights, and inspiring stories that you won't want to miss!

Transcript

Ty Backer: 0:03

We're live. Oh, welcome back everyone to behind the tool belt, episode two. Oh two, we have another fantastic guest. Stay tuned, is your lead flow down? Whether you're a company owner, office staff, salesperson or installer, you're a roofing rock star. We hope you get more leads with custom SEO, google ads and a pro website. And we are back for episode 102. I'm sorry, 202. What is season two, season two, episode two, something like I don't even have to say to oh two. But, yes, welcome back everybody to behind the tool belt. We have Alan Lopez, our guest, a fellow podcaster, a fellow GAF guy, a fellow trainer, a coach, all the good stuff that we're all trying to do self improvement professionally, all that good stuff. So, alan, how are you doing buddy?

Alan Lopez: 3:19

I'm doing great. I thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

Ty Backer: 3:24

Yes, you're welcome, man, so thank you very much. I think I was on your podcast a couple few weeks ago. It was my turn to tell my story a little bit. I think this time I'm going to let you do some talking this time, because I felt like I took your show hostage there a little bit, with the fantastic questions that you, that you gave me some things that we haven't talked about for a long time, like basically how our podcast got started and some things you know professionally and and you know personal stuff that you're asking me. So you know, I guess let's dive right into this, like you know how. I guess let's let's go back to your, your, your beginning of your GAF days. Let's let's go back there. And how did you find GAF? Or how did GAF find you?

Alan Lopez: 4:12

Wow, that's a. That's a that's really going back in time a few years now, but you know it was. It was actually by, by luck, by mistake, by, but I don't know, by anything but intended, if you will. So when I was in college I had a good friend of mine he's his brother had a rift company in Salt Lake City, utah, where I grew up and went to school and and you know I helped him every once in a while with roofing, whether it was to do sales or simply help with the crews, pick him up whatnot during the summers. And then that really made me made on my mind about roofing. I thought I would never do roofing. I would never do this industry. I finished college one day at the corporate route. I was always a corporate trainer Original.

Alan Lopez: 5:02

When I went to school I wanted to be a high school teacher. I wanted to be a Spanish teacher, a history teacher. I soon realized that that didn't pay. At the same time, I was working for a credit card company Coles Center in Salt Lake City you might heard of them a Discover card, and I was a trainer for Discover cards. So I was training at the same time that I was finishing my degree. I was training adults how to answer the phone, how to work the systems, etc. And so I quickly realized that I was making more money doing that than I was going to be making as a teacher. So I stuck with the training, worked for another company for another six years and it really it came through a crossroads. My family was growing.

Alan Lopez: 5:42

At the time I had four kids and I just had had my last, my fourth kid, and I was traveling for this other company two weeks. I was traveling two weeks a month, but the trainings that I was doing I was going to not very desirable places. I was going to El Paso, texas, which I love now but not then. I was going to Iowa, the Moin Iowa. Who wants to be in the Moin Iowa for two weeks? I don't care who, you are right. And then Georgia, augusta, georgia. The only thing that Augusta Georgia has that I like was the golf course, the masters, nothing else for two weeks. And so my wife and I came to a crossroads what do we do? And so I started looking for a job. This is going to resonate with you, maybe not for the, with the half of our audience, but you remember monsterscom.

Ty Backer: 6:34

Oh, yeah, yeah, I remember.

Alan Lopez: 6:36

So I went to monsterscom to find a job and I put trainer on the search and the first job that came out was GAF care trainer. I have heard of GAF because my friends were through my first company, but I didn't know what a care trainer was. So I read the description, I read the requirements and they required three things. They required that they knew roofing, that they knew how to train and that they were bilingual. So I took a chance and I said well, you know what? I have two out of the three. I'm bilingual. I've trained for the last 12 years. I have enough experience, so I'm going to go ahead and apply, and either they didn't have anybody else was applying, or and I was the last resource or I was really good, I don't know.

Alan Lopez: 7:30

So I remember at the IRE in 2010 in New Orleans, they asked me to come down for an interview in person. So I went and interviewed with the care team. Back then, the care team had only five people, okay. So I interviewed with my boss now and our director at the time and the other trainers, and they liked me. Within a matter of a week, they made me an offer to come work for them, to, which I ended up accepting it, and in 2010,. This is not a joke. Starting day was April 1st. Wow, a JF 2010. And I started covering the west coast, the inner mountain area and the west coast as a care trainer for JM 2010.

Ty Backer: 8:22

Wow, that's crazy. So, for those of us that are viewing this, or for those of them that are watching or viewing this, explain to us what care is.

Alan Lopez: 8:33

Yeah, so care is the educational arm of JF. So what JF realized many, many, many years ago, before my time, was that there was a gap in the industry. Every manufacturer will sell product, every manufacturer will will say their product is the best, and we continue to do that to this day. Okay, but there was a gap in the, in the workmanship of the contractor, of the installer, and so, as a tool, at the same time that we're starting their contractor program during the same time, and so one of the benefits I guess you could say, or one of the values that JF was adding, is like hey, listen, let's create this, this organization, within the company of trainers that come from the roofing industry, that are that have owned a business, that have inspected roofs, that have installed roofs, that really want to pass their knowledge on to the next generation. And that's how we started. We started thinking this is going to be an installation only platform, but we're only going to train installers how to install roofs.

Alan Lopez: 9:47

And over the years the care program has evolved, where we've gone from being very, very involved in the installation processes for commercial, residential to very involved in sales processes, understanding our own products and helping on contractors understand products, understand warranties.

Alan Lopez: 10:06

I mean, I've trained anything from leadership trainings now to contractors. So over the years the care program has evolved in residential, commercial, more on the road, trailer trainings with our commercial trainers in home selling, to the point that we've also added a few years back we added the roofing academy to continue with that pursuing, finding those individuals that didn't have an opportunity, maybe an employment opportunity, maybe people that are coming, you know they're being integrated back into society from being imprisoned, and helping them get developed and get some skills in them. So we do all that and so for now at least for me, almost 14 years, that's what we've been doing, and I know Carey's been around for twice as that. So now we're almost 40 trainers in County. So we are sole purpose is to help the contractor and anybody that wants to learn anything that they want about roofing. We probably can do it.

Ty Backer: 11:13

That's amazing. That's amazing. I got a 100 questions in my head going through my head right now, but I can probably only remember one of them because I really wanted to listen to what you were saying and what stands out to me is the type of person that you are right Like. It takes a genuine, you know, empathetic person to want to teach, to want to train. So what would you say, or who would you say, inspired you the most right Like, was there? Was there an individual, a parent, an employer or somebody that that kind of inspired you to want to be a teacher, a coach or a leader?

Alan Lopez: 11:53

Well, there's several people that come to mind. I've been very blessed I'm not gonna lie, I've been very blessed and being connected to the right people at the right time in my life. That held me kind of steering to the right path and not going into a rabbit hole, right. But I think, if I can think of a couple of people number one, I think my dad, who I call my dad, was really my stepdad right when I came to this country I was 16 years old, with my mom and my sister. I didn't know much English.

Alan Lopez: 12:24

We met this guy at the time. He was, my mom worked for him and he was a very smart individual. He had his own business for many years. He worked as a, as a collector, so he, he owned a collection company and so he, he taught me business, he taught me the. I remember this phrase many, many, many years after he had retired.

Alan Lopez: 12:58

We were at a dinner I think it was like a Christmas dinner at a country club, right, and he was he's dropping on the people on the table next next to us, conversation, and he even stops my mom from talking. It's like, yeah, I want to hear. So he turns out and starts talking to these individuals how they were going through some hard times collecting from there. It was a doctor collecting from their clients and, mind you, he's been retired for now at this point, for like 15 years. Yeah, his son still manages the business and he's getting clients for his son, right, he stops conversation and goes, so he comes back to the table and he and he says to me is, when you love what you do, you are never working. You have a desire to pass along what you know, and so he taught me from a young age I say young age, you know my early 20s to really find what made me happy and what gave me satisfaction. And to me that's one of the reasons I went originally into high school teaching, right, but I also wanted to provide for a family, so I changed directions. So that was one, see.

Alan Lopez: 14:14

So he taught me the passion, the other person that I'm very thankful for, the things that I've been able to accomplish, the love that I have for this industry. It's a good friend of mine. He still works for GAF here in Minneapolis, minnesota. His name is Lance Hoagland, and that guy, when I first moved to Minnesota, he and I traveled the entire upper Midwest together, for we did that for two and a half, three years and he taught me a lot of valuable lessons on compassion, understanding and opportunity.

Alan Lopez: 14:52

And I don't know if that makes sense as a trainer, but to me he again, he taught me. It's like listen, you might be a training, a trainer, but at the end of the day we all work from the same company and we all want the same. We want the best things for our contractors, we want the best, we want them to succeed, because if they don't succeed, we don't succeed, and you have an integral part in that success. You are the voice, and if you don't love what you do as the voice, might as well don't do it. And so I quickly realized that I had an opportunity to really share my talents and my values, and the values of GAF will ever give me an opportunity. So those two people, I think, are for me, the most important in my career, as I say, as it's progressed over the years.

Ty Backer: 15:45

Yeah, I love that. I love that, I love that story and I love how you pointed out the individual and the individuals that have helped you and steered you in the right direction, Because there are some people. It's very humbling for you and it shows a lot of the type of person and the character that you are, because a lot of people would maybe not a lot of people, but I have heard people say you know, I'm a self-made man, Right, but to hear you the first, your first response to my question was oh man, where do I start? Man, there's been so many people that have influenced, you know, impacted my life in a way that I felt like I needed to reciprocate that to others that caring, that training, that coaching that you talk about so much. So let's talk a little bit about like your podcast here, a little bit. But I guess my question for you would be, like you know so, with starting a podcast, do you think your experience with training inspired you to want to reach more people by doing a podcast?

Alan Lopez: 16:58

Absolutely. I think so. I think opportunity is everything right, and I think most of us found ourselves in this little dilemma in 2020. I could not go train, I could not go see contractors, which is, by that point, I've been doing this for almost 10 years and I couldn't do it. And so think about it when you have an individual who's been traveling for 10 years, almost every week being in front of somebody, and all of a sudden you cut that out abruptly, I had to find avenues to stay connected with people. I had to find ways to stay connected with individuals. So one of I gave it a shot.

Alan Lopez: 17:49

I tried webinars right, and I think everybody and their mother tried webinars. But one of the biggest problems about webinars is they're one, they're training number one, but they're very the engagement is not. I'm a people person, so the engagement is not as strong as I would like it to be. I wanted to have conversations, and so the communications department came to me. They had. I had actually done a pilot show with a good I don't know if you've ever met Mitos, one of our other trainers and we've done a pilot and we kind of submitted it to GAF. They take a look at what we're doing what we're trying to do and all of a sudden, communications comes back and says to a couple of us hey, we want you to do this, and trainers are great about going and performing and doing what they're, but sometimes we lack. We're like little dogs, right with the squirrel. Something brighter comes along and we just take off and I kept it. I enjoyed it so much that I started doing it.

Alan Lopez: 19:04

My first one was July of 2020. I did the first one, I did the second one and it was like a drug. I wanted more and more and more. We started getting busy and busy and they're like well, in 2021, I say you know what, at the end of 2021 to 2022, I said we might have to stop this because I'm going back on the road and communications came back and said no, your show is the number one show on GAF's Facebook page. It drives the most people, it gives us the most engagements that you can't stop.

Alan Lopez: 19:39

And when I've heard that, it was kind of like a weight on my shoulders, like oh crap, and I have to do that, but at the same time it was like holy crap, what have I done? And it kind of gave me a little bit of gratefulness and peace, and so you know what. That's what I needed to hear. We're gonna continue to do it until people tell me not to do it anymore. And it's just as a trainer. It's a great opportunity to get to train and you get to interview and you know this doing this spot because you get to interview very interesting people that open up in ways that you never heard or never had conversations like that before. So it's to me, it's a great thing.

Ty Backer: 20:21

It is, it is, it really is, and it's funny because I've gained so much knowledge and experience but not just that from doing this podcast. But not just that, but the vulnerability that people share or expose. We've had some really deep dive conversations with people where they've broken down and cried, talking about their past and stuff, because some people get real deep and hence where behind the tool belt came from. You know the man, the woman, the entrepreneur, the leader, the whatever right Thought leader. You know behind who is that individual, when did they come from? How did they get where they are today? And you know that's pretty cool that you said that. But so you started the podcast. You started to impact people. Do you have any interesting or inspiring guest or stories or impact that rings true or has impacted you the most thus far since you started the podcast?

Alan Lopez: 21:29

Yes, I've had a few. So what I do now with GAF is it's a. So what we tried to do, our podcast is to do one in English, one in Spanish, right Twice in one. And at the beginning I wasn't quite sure, because I didn't want to have just an installer come in and talk about a how do you install? And I'm not I mean, I guess I can say this because I'm Hispanic you know, I realized that the majority of us in the industry are installers, right? So part one of the things that I do at GAF is like, I have this little thing called Latinos in Rufine, where I help Hispanic business owners either grow their business, develop their business, start their business, whatever you want to call it, so that they they don't necessarily get off of installation, but they, they diverse their business and diversify their business into a business owner like you, like yourself, right. So one of my biggest fears was that I was going to run out of out of Hispanic business owners that I could bring to the show, because I didn't. I couldn't see the forest from the trees, I couldn't see how many were out there, I was only seeing a few of them. And so one of my greatest experience and I just did this podcast with him last month in October.

Alan Lopez: 22:52

His name is Christian Flores. It's a contractor in Washington State, outside of Seattle, where I knew about this guy two years ago. He worked for a company, he started his own business, he was attending trainings but he was installing and selling right. He wasn't developed and I saw him at a couple of events at GAF. And then all of a sudden I see him at a training from another contractor in Kentucky and it hits me. It's like this guy is motivated. This guy you know nobody freaking goes from Washington State to Kentucky for a training unless they're really interesting growing their business and investing in their business. So I decided to interview him in October and I was so impressed with what he had become, where I saw him as a. This is just another guy that wants to quote, unquote grow his business and and and maybe fail eventually.

Alan Lopez: 24:03

You know, I had, I had little faith in him, I'll be honest, and I saw him. I saw him talk how he, how he talked, how he presented himself. He told me about his business. He told me about his plans for continue to grow on this business. I mean, this guy had a plan and was executing that plan a hundred percent. And that opened my eye and it really made me tear up at the moment because Kind of felt shameful that I wasn't giving him the respect that he deserved, that I thought let's see for real or not. And and and he really, without knowing, he really opened my eyes and see, you know what there's. There's a lot of impact.

Alan Lopez: 24:50

Because he mentioned the show. He's like I watch the show every time, every month. I watch your show, alan. I was waiting for you to invite me. I, you know.

Alan Lopez: 24:59

And then he, obviously he's a JF Contractor's, like his goal was I'm gonna become a master elite and this is my, this is my plan to becomea Master elite. I worked very closely with my TM and this is what I'm gonna tell my TM. And and and then he's, all of a sudden, he because you know, on our show we tried to incorporate that the guest as the teacher. So we say you have to say, and he starts talking to the audience and starts telling him this is what, this is what you have to Do, don't be afraid, just just do it. And you know, like it's under, like a Nike commercial, and all of a sudden it's just it hit me how impactful the show had been for somebody like him and here I was just thinking I'm just doing it so that I can fulfill my commitment to JF and my audience and it really made me realize again the reason why I started doing this show, which was to to help people change lives and change their lives at the same time. So it was very touching.

Ty Backer: 25:53

I love that. I love that great story. We always have that one. Actually we've had quite a few that stick with me and Elizabeth Cazadilla. She owns a business called business 411 and and she's an immigrant and just happens to be an immigrant and Cuban descent and she she told us her whole like how she got over here with her family and they didn't have anything and she's worked you know her whole life and it's such a great story. It was probably one of our best podcasts we ever done. We need to get her back on here now.

Alan Lopez: 26:26

I think about it, but, um, yeah, I just so, elizabeth, for a couple of years.

Ty Backer: 26:35

Yeah, she's fantastic hard worker, a perfect example of you know entrepreneurship from nothing to you know rags the riches. I guess for lack of better terms for her, but Cory, cory barrier actually is in our studio tonight and we have a live studio audience here.

Ty Backer: 26:52

If you know if you're not aware of him. He's moving into the the roofing space. You will know him very soon. He's got the the sex. What is it? Cory the successful she? I can't remember Successful life podcast, which is actually the top two, two percent in the world podcast, and I just so happen to be friends with this guy. Why he likes me I have no idea, but he drove the whole way up here from Raleigh, north Carolina. But he's got a question in here. What's the biggest obstacle? You have seen training and coaching salespeople.

Alan Lopez: 27:29

That's that's. I don't see this is a two-fold question, right? I think Training them is not hard as far as the actual execution of the training. I Help them identify the opportunity. It's. It's what's difficult Sometimes, and because it happens to be Not in their friend and I I'm gonna be very careful with this Opportunity is not usually in front of their mind of a salesperson.

Alan Lopez: 28:05

What's in front of their mind is the need. They're always looking for the need and If you focused on the need as a salesperson, you're showing yourself in the foot From right, from the start. So for me, the hardest part is to let help them see and usually this happens during the coaching Help them see the opportunity Right. So a perfect example of this is salespeople are very, very impatient. They want that the quick turnaround right and Depending us to have the businesses set up who they, whoever they're working with. If they don't understand the process of that company and they're only looking at the need, which is very selfish, as they should be, they miss the opportunity. And so if they miss the opportunity, by consequence they miss the need.

Alan Lopez: 29:06

So the hardest thing to teach, in my opinion, as salesperson, is teach them how to overcome there. Whatever is in front of them. I'm seeing the opportunity. What is the opportunity? Right, walking away from a cell that does not make sense? Right, and the only reason they do it is because of the need. They know that they need that cell, they need the money, but they don't understand that the opportunity is not there. The opportunity might be three, three houses down the road, or the next call might be we're far more worth it. But they don't see that and and they end up making mistakes in the long run. So that's that's probably my. My biggest frustration is when salespeople don't understand the difference between need and opportunity.

Ty Backer: 29:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think one of the things that I've seen to, and most recently, that that has become Apparent to me, was and I identified this one night we're at a restaurant and we had a waiter that was just phenomenal, just just great service added so much value to our evening. You know, you know, just was a wonderful experience. So you know most waiters work for, you know, minimum wage or whatever that is, and the bonus is their tip, the value that they add to us. Whether you know and I'm saying I'm using the word value because it doesn't matter if you're a good salesperson You're adding value to somebody's life you know you bonus, that's, that's your job, right, like anybody that comes to work, you know if you love what you do and that that paycheck at the end of the week is just tip. So, getting back to the store here, I tipped him and and we tipped him very well because it was just phenomenal, and that's what we do. We tip if the service could, we always tip, but it was just outstanding that night and so gave him the tip and we're walking out of the restaurant and he chases me down. He's like sir, sir, I think he gave me too much and and in mind you, I didn't give him a thousand dollars or anything like that, it wasn't like something ridiculous, it was just, it was a decent tip. It was a little, it was more than 20%. And he was like sir, sir, sir, I think I think you get you overpaid me and I'm like, no, no, I didn't, I didn't and I just I just kind of, you know, I've had people thank me, I've you know, I'll thank you, thank you, thank you so much, but I've never had someone actually chase me to the door and say you overtip me. So my wife, myself and rocket our son, we get in a car and I'm just sitting there and I'm kind of baffled and for whatever reason, a light bulb went off and and I think, I think there's a mental block of what it occurred to me is and I could be totally wrong in this instance, and Most sales are not most, but but a few sales people's minds, I think.

Ty Backer: 32:05

I think they don't A couple of things one, they don't believe in the product that they're selling to, they feel like they don't, they're not adding value To, to somebody's life, and and then, three, I think there's like this mentality, like I can't afford to give a tip like that so I can't sell a product that costs that much. So and I don't know what that's called but I felt like he was suffering a little bit, like he didn't feel like he was worthy enough or he didn't give us enough value, or that he couldn't afford a tip that large himself. So he felt like something was wrong there. So when you come across the salesperson and maybe you haven't that has like this and I don't know if you call it like a poverty mentality or or a lack of self-esteem maybe or something when you come across the salesperson that that has this mental block and they feel like they're not adding value, how do you overcome something like that when you know they're a good person and they could potentially be a good salesperson?

Alan Lopez: 33:02

I? That's a very good question, I think, when, when a salesperson it's and they might be misunderstanding what they are with humility, right, but it's, it's really what? What you said is very important they're not necessarily being humble, they're, they're being, they're not, they're discrediting themselves, right, they don't think they bring enough value. And so when I run across an individual, that's just, for whatever reason, their self-esteem is not Pumped up, they're just. They just say, hey, I am a one million Dollar sales guy and that's all I'm gonna be for the rest of my life and I'm okay with that. I asked the question. I always ask the question why right? I want him to tell me why. Because when, when they answer the question, you're gonna find a lot of good information. You're gonna identify where their priorities are Right and then you can build on their priorities. So if he's telling you, I just want to spend more time with my family, you know, going above and beyond over a million dollars, it takes too much time away from my family. Or? Or you know what? I'm my son's coach, and so Doing more than what I, what I do, I, you know, takes away from that. Or you know, I, I guess, sufficient for my needs. I know exactly what a million dollar gets me every year. I know what my salary is going to be by my commissions are going to be, and I'm okay with that Because I want to go. I don't want to work, you know, very is very noticeable in the north right. I don't want to work from the end of November to March and I know exactly how much I need to meet. And so when I come across a person like that and I asked him the question then it allows me to formulate an opportunity, allows me to formulate a vision for them.

Alan Lopez: 34:53

The and I don't know if you've ever jay, was very big and a few years back in the challenger method I don't know if you've, you know, ever Read that book the challenger, the challenger would would tell you that the first thing you need to do is don't come out with the solution, but Create some Tension, some some healthy tension. So I would always ask and I always ask this guys, well, wouldn't it be great if you could spend more time with your family by? You know? What do you like to do? You like, you like to have a cabin? You like, you know, wouldn't it be great if you could do this with your family right, so taking what they love the most and Letting them see what they don't have. So what you?

Alan Lopez: 35:37

When do you do that and say you know what, wouldn't it be great if you were to do that? And they will. They will answer it's like, yeah, but I, I just can't afford it. And then you will go well, you could Let me tell you how, all right. And Then you ask the questions wouldn't it be great if you could do it like this? What if every client of yours was like this? What if every cell was like this? You start putting these questions in their mind and they're starts like yeah, that would be great. How do I do that? All of a sudden, they are the ones asking you the questions. How do I get there? Then you say, well, let me tell you. And then you leave with a solution at the end. It's like this is how, by the way, this is Plan A, plan B, plan C. When you do that, when you show them because again we go back to that need they're focusing on the need for different reasons, but when you identify the opportunity for them and you identify the ways in which they can get that opportunity, that individual's self-esteem, that individual drive. It's like you just started that motor again, that passion in them. All of a sudden they're like, okay, tell me more, tell me more. How do I do that? You take them to the coaching and you show them that it can be done.

Alan Lopez: 36:57

So we always like to do in sales. I know of you guys who are training. We try a method that's called pain, promise, proof. So we always train with that. We show you the pain, we're going to show you the promise. This is what we're telling you. If you follow ABCD, this is what you're going to have. And then we're going to show you the proof. So we're not just don't hear from us, we're going to give you examples where we have seen it work. So you do that with this sales guys and say, okay, pain, you could be here, but you're here, let's test the fact, that's what you're. And then you show them what they're missing and what the opportunity is. And then you show them the proof and they're like, holy crap, it works. And then you take them through the coaching, through the work. The idea is that you want them to prove it on them. And so you coach them, you help them, you do follow up and eventually you start saying I don't want to bad mouth anybody, everybody does the sales trainings right. Oh, yeah.

Alan Lopez: 38:03

And you go into the sales trainings, you get motivated. You get all this motivational speeches. You go home and you realize all you got was a good time, but you didn't get anything in return. You got motivated, but you didn't get okay. What steps do I follow? What do I do? And there goes $1,200, $1,500 of your time, of your money and for a good time. Well, let me help you get in that good time and you don't have to go to my training, just go, I'll do my training for free. You take that $1,500, and once you make 3,000, instead of 1,500, you can do without whatever you want. That's the proof. So I think it's helping them see the proof. It's helping them see beyond their need.

Ty Backer: 38:51

I love that. I love that. Let's dig into this some more, okay, so give us some examples of some of the training or how you've gotten through to them, like, and explain to us the three Ps. Like how did what? Did you give us the whole spiel here?

Alan Lopez: 39:08

I do a very good training, especially with smaller companies, right? Because the smaller companies you probably had people that worked for you, ty, before that probably at one point in their careers with you they say you know what I can do this better and I can do it for cheaper, right? So these individuals leave your company, right? Somebody came to your mind right now, right?

Ty Backer: 39:37

Oh yeah, they totally did.

Alan Lopez: 39:40

So they exist everywhere, they're everywhere, right. And so they come back to me when I do training and they're like why is Shingo so expensive? Why is Shingo so expensive? Why is Rufin so expensive? So I have a training that I call, that I show them. I say let's look at the books. So I start the training. It's a leadership training, but I start with the numbers and there's a reason for that, right.

Alan Lopez: 40:07

So let's pretend that I have a Rufin company. So I'm showing them the pain first. Let's pretend I have a Rufin company. Alan's Rufin End your Market, does about 100 Rufs a year. Okay, 100 Rufs a year, not a huge company, but just a good, steady company. How do I know how much I need to charge for my Ruf? And I like give me some thoughts.

Alan Lopez: 40:32

So I open it to the audience and I said, okay, first pain. Nobody wants to tell you their price in front of their peers, of their competition, right? So first pain, everybody's pain, stand very quiet, nobody wants to talk. And so I made just through a couple of numbers 250, 350, 500, 650, what's the square? And there's some that you know, get up and say 650 square. There's others that are like you're nuts, you're crazy, you're never gonna go, you're never gonna get out of business, you're gonna die. Some others were like 450. So I get the average. So all right, let's do 550 square. So I put 550 square. I said I have a 30 square house. This is how much the price is. Are you guys okay with that? And they're like, oh yeah, they're all not their hands, like yeah, that's fine.

Alan Lopez: 41:18

Then what I do is like, okay, let's say this is true. And what I basically do is I take them through a P&L, I introduce them to a P&L and I said this is a P&L. We're gonna identify the cost of goods, we're gonna identify labor and material. First, we identify material. I usually have a distributor in my training and I prepare them in advance. It's like you don't have to tell me any brands, just tell me a random price, right for material. So here you have the number for all material. Boom.

Alan Lopez: 41:48

Then I ask the audience how much are you paying your installers for tariff and removal, tariff and replacement, depending on the market? I heard it as low as $55 per square, as high as $130 per square, right? So I take that number, I plug it into my numbers and it's on by the way, your P&L, your cost of goods, your labor and material is about 70% of your entire cost. So that's, we make the math, we do the math, we make sure that that's accurate. Yeah, this is 70% of that. Then we go over the overhead Variable overhead, not so variable overhead. Every overhead variable, that's a lie. Every overhead's variable. Some of it happens to be more variable than others, right.

Ty Backer: 42:30

So gas vehicles light insurance, everything and we break it down.

Alan Lopez: 42:37

And then they tell me Alan, I said, how much is your license in your state? If your state has a license, well, it's 350 per year, all right, but they're like you're not gonna charge 350 per house that you do. And it's like no, that'll be dishonest. What you do is you take the 350 and you break it down by 100 roofs and you add that cost, dumpsters, taxes, everything. We add everything, right, we break it down. We come out to a number that seems to be at this time you remember, we have our price up here.

Alan Lopez: 43:08

And this is where the pain happens, because they see this price. That might be that we came out with 30 squares, $13,000. And my cost it's like 11,000, 10,000. All of a sudden the pain starts to hit in, because they're not stupid, they're doing the math themselves and they know that that's less than 10% of margin. And all of a sudden they start wait a minute, that cannot happen. Those are not. I was like, guys, you're giving me these prices, you're giving me this because it's your cost, I'm just adding it here. And I asked the question is this your price? Does that mean that I should charge less, that I should charge 11,000? And they're like well, yeah, I was like no. So, guys, this number that you see here is simply the cost of doing business. That's your cost.

Alan Lopez: 44:00

So let me teach you a trick, and we had a lot of sources we did a long time ago. We had this numbers from the Harvard School of Business and they gave us two percentages. One percentage they recommend that a business owner, a small business, always adds 20% to their cost right off the top because of the variable overhead. You never know if gas is gonna go up, you never know if a sheeting is gonna go up, you never know If permits are gonna be, are gonna go up or not, depending on the house. So you always have this 20%. So I said, if this is 11,000, you're gonna add 11%, 20%. So we do that and all of a sudden their eyes come up. I was like, oh crap, that's more than the 13,000. Right. So now the pain is even more, because now they're saying, shh, nike's, I'm losing money. Like, yeah, you are losing money, but you're not making any money either. So to this number that we just came out with, we're gonna have to find a margin.

Alan Lopez: 45:02

Business 101 says the minimum margin for a business 30% in a residential world. So we add 30% and all of a sudden this roof is $17,000, $18,000. They're just baffled, they're like crap. There's no way. And so that's the pain, what I do with that price. I said this is a very achievable price If you have the tools To corroborate that price.

Alan Lopez: 45:36

If you just show up to a house and say, hey, ma'am, I'm gonna do your, your roof and bring absolutely no value, then You're gonna get no value in return. All you are to a homeowner is a transaction. Okay, nobody cares about you know, they say they do until you do it. But before that, nobody's thinking about what color of shingles they're gonna have on their house. They're not gonna, they're not gonna look at what warranty they have. They're hoping that you will tell them. And if you can give them a roof for 11,000, and Then your competition is coming and he's selling them a room for 17,000 and the only difference between the two of you is the price. So I'm not, I'm not dummy, I'm gonna go with the 11,000. But if you identified the difference between the 11,000 and the 17,000 and what that is, then the promise is you are going to be able to justify and to corroborate your price, and this is how you do it.

Alan Lopez: 46:34

So we, we help them to vote. That's what. That's the leadership part of it. We go into leadership. You got to think different. You got a. You got to approach different things, the homeowner different. You got a bill value in the homeowner and your company. You got to care about who you are in the community.

Alan Lopez: 46:51

So we talked about from things, from your logos, from your Entrepreneurial work in the community, your nonprofit work, your involvement, your, your, your lawyer we even talk about lawyers. We talked about accountants, we talked about Manufacturers, we talked about distributors and all of a sudden, what they're starting seeing, they're starting realizing Holy crap, I have all this value that my distributor does to me that allows me to do this job on time, hence allows me to To be very clear to the homeowner when I'm gonna start, when I'm gonna finish, and that's important to them. And I get nothing out of it because I'm charging $11,000 for this roof. I Can put warranties and this warranties protect my homeowner, but I think that every lifetime warranty is the same everywhere. So I don't understand it. But if I understand it, I can get this price.

Alan Lopez: 47:44

So the promise then comes and says okay, you do all these things. If you build a company based on value, the promise is you are going to get this price. You are gonna become profitable. Not only are you gonna become profitable, you're gonna get more leads, You're gonna get referrals, you're gonna get more business. You may always do a hundred roofs a year, but you're gonna make more money than the other guy doing the same number of roofs because you're looking at value. You build that value proposition and all of a sudden the light bulb goes on, is like holy crap, how do I get so? That's just a very that. That training takes about four hours. I just big, very quick synopsis in 10 minutes.

Ty Backer: 48:31

I love it and and you are so absolutely correct because, being in the industry, as long as I've been in industry, we've come across I was that guy, the lowball guy, desperate, more so, didn't realize how desperate I was, I guess, or how desperate I probably. Looked Right, you know, didn't, didn't realize the value that we were performing. You know, like you said, it was a transaction, but, but where? I think that's where you know Education, like educating myself on the different parts and pieces and components and the warranties and and what differentiates us For the long haul, right, like we're in this for longevity. We're not just here to collect a paycheck, we're here to also be able to pay our bills, pay our people, warrant this five, ten years from now, if something does come up Manufacture, defect, workmanship, what, whatever might be here, and that's you know, like you said, the, the are.

Ty Backer: 49:29

You know how we present ourselves. How are we carrying ourselves right? Do we have nice vehicles? Do we have wraps? Are we carrying the proper Insurance? Is workers comp on our people, general liability, all of these things.

Ty Backer: 49:42

Like you said, and I don't think a lot of people understand Overhead cost, like what is your overhead cost? You know, what does it cost to to function? What does it cost to keep the lights on? What does it cost for our insurances to fuel the tires, to over the, the, the oil changes, the all of these things that that you that are required to operate and function, to keep your door open every day, for your, your team members, to show up every day and have that paycheck every Friday? Right, there's so much more that goes into it than just ordering shingles, having the shingles delivered, tearing the roof off, installing the roof and hauling the trash away, like there is so much more involved in this. Then then I think everyone Realizes even even those that work for you, I don't think they realize, you know, especially salespeople.

Ty Backer: 50:37

It's like you know that's the thing is like for a salesperson and the importance of of a salesperson. I don't necessarily like to use the word sales, because ever I think anytime a homeowner or anyone thinks of sales, they think of a used car salesperson or something like that. But but what it is is that the salesperson is so good at their job and they should be so good at their job and and and well trained and educated, so then they can go out and educate the homeowner on the products that we're using. Yes, we can give you a good, better, best option, whether it's a System plus warranty, a silver pledge or a gold pledge, warranty, right, and the prices that vary because of different parts and pieces and components that go on your roof, but because they're so good and can articulate that message to the homeowner of the value that you are receiving from us, that everyone else around them has jobs right the roofers that come out, the service tax, the, the gutter guys, whatever, whatever project that that that salesperson Sold to that homeowner and then the crew is so good at their job.

Ty Backer: 51:42

I was just talking to somebody about this today and I probably talk about it and then any of those people that that worked for me listening to this probably get tired of hearing me Talk about this unison, that that we're all working in unison, that the salesperson so good at their job, that the production side has has a job right and the production side is so good at their jobs, that this, that the salesperson actually gets a referral from that job, and that this, this ripple effect and Cohesiveness, that we're all working as one, that we're not just here for ourselves. And, like you said, that, that, that selfishness that you know early on that you were talking about. It's like we're not here for Just me and my family. Yes, we are, at the end of the day, we're here to feed our families, but we're also and and I use the word plural family families, right, not just your family, but our family, like we have become a Family, and I know I kind of got off topic here a little bit, but it kind of goes into everything that we're talking about.

Ty Backer: 52:39

Like, if we can think outside the box a little bit and realize the impact that we're having on our community, first and foremost because of the value and the protection, the protection that we're offering that person's most prized possession, probably largest asset that they've ever purchased in their life. We were putting a roof and we are covering not just them but their entire family were protecting them, right. So for the salesperson that might be struggling with man, I don't think I'm worthy enough. I don't know if I can sell a seventeen thousand dollar roof, but I can sell a eleven thousand dollar roof if they Understand that salesperson understands that value, that warranty, not just backed by us but by our single manufacturer, whether we're here today or gone tomorrow, that that single manufacturer Is going to cover that warranty, whether we're here or not, and that in itself is the value that we are offering, if you know your numbers.

Alan Lopez: 53:34

Because and Jesus touching a point, this you know. That's. That's exactly what we're talking about. Right, the eleven thousand is the need. That's what that sounds guys been doing all along Mm-hmm. 17,000 is the opportunity, but think about what it does other than put a little bit more money in your pocket as a sales guy, which is well-earned. Think about the credibility, because he's no longer. He's an. He's an expert now on his field. He's an expert on his field. That's explained to the homeowner. Hey, listen, let me tell you what how warranty works and how it really works. And so, all of a sudden, what is that homeowner gonna do? He didn't talk to to a typical roof or he just talked to an expert. And that is another opportunity because that homeowner is gonna go.

Alan Lopez: 54:18

When I talk leadership in this class, I tell, based on a survey that I did when I was at other company that I work for, we would research people that would remember the bad experiences and how often they will share those bad experiences. And the people that received the service that they Expected, how many times they will share it. And the people that had great experiences, how many times they will share it. And what we found is people that shared that they got exactly what they expected. One out of ten will share it. It was expected. Then they got nothing less, nothing more. Boom expected when people. When people got less than what they were expecting, it was nine out of ten will share the experience. And when you got more than what you expected, it was ten out of ten. So either you find yourself on good, very good, or you find yourself on really bad.

Alan Lopez: 55:19

And I looked at my own experience. If I get bad service when I call someplace I don't care who it is power company, delta Airlines, whoever and I get by bad service and I get that message you want to fill out a survey after the call. What do you think I'm doing? What do you think I'm doing? I'm filling out that survey. But if I just got what I, what I was expecting, I could care less about the survey because I got what I got. And so sales guys don't understand that If you perform better than what they were expecting, your opportunity just grew nine-fold. You get a 10-fold because it's 10 out of 10. You're going to get referrals. It's not a matter of if it's when, but you're going to get them.

Ty Backer: 56:10

Now, 100%, 100%. What is such a great conversation? I see more people in here talking about the nuggets you're dropping. Alan, the good stuff someone said good stuff, and this is all stuff that we all should know this stuff and talk about it more.

Ty Backer: 56:29

The impact helping you, training those that might be struggling in the areas that they might be struggling, but, most importantly, you being able to identify where they're struggling and being able to impact them and encourage them to do better, and it's self-esteem, I think. A lot of times it's like oh man, I don't think we can sell a roof over $11,000. We need to be at $400. Well then, you don't believe in yourself, you don't believe in the product, and I think really, at the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. But, more importantly, it's like you're not going to be around very long, your company's not going to be around very long. You can't pay good people to come in Because, unfortunately, it costs money to have good people around you to do a good job. That costs money. There's a monetary value to having good help around you. So, basically, what you're saying is, too, is that the people around you aren't worth the money that they deserve to get paid as well, because you're not believing in yourself, your company and the value that you are offering somebody.

Ty Backer: 57:36

And this is the other thing too, and I think this has become a little bit of a stigma too. Profit's not a bad word, oh no. I think so many people get that stuck in their head, whether it be a co-worker, whether it be a homeowner, whether it be whoever. I've had conversations with home builders already and I have to believe in the product and the services that we're performing for you. There is a lot of labor burden that goes into this, and if you want us here next year to come back and service this work when there's a windstorm, then this is what we need.

Ty Backer: 58:09

In order to do this, you just got to have courage. You got to have the faith in yourself and the abilities in yourself to be able to perform a job that. Lets face it, this isn't an easy job. Roofing is not an easy job. I don't care. There's only a handful of insurance companies in the country that will even ensure roofing companies, because the exposure and the liability is so extraneous that there's a lot of it, so that's not cheap. That are, if you're running a legit company, workers comp, unemployment general liability. Those insurances are not cheap, especially when it comes to workers comp. Once you tell them that we work on a roof, it went from like 10 cents a dollar to 25 cents 25% of what we pay we're an individual. To get on a roof, what we have to pay for our insurance, what is that telling you? And we're not going to lie to the insurance company and say, hey, we're just carpenters and we do siding in windows. No, we're a roofing contractor.

Alan Lopez: 59:11

And that's a message that's not shared to the homeowner.

Ty Backer: 59:15

That.

Alan Lopez: 59:15

I'm not going to say, hey, my insurance costs are an arm and a leg, but just the fact that we're insured should be a piece of mind for the homeowner, absolutely. You just mentioned a couple of things. Profit is not a bad word. I 100% agree. I think profit is a beautiful word. It's the reason of our existence at the end of the day.

Alan Lopez: 59:42

Yes, we are passionate about what we do in roofing, we love what we do in roofing, but let's face it, it's dangerous, it's not that easy. And we do it, yes, because our families depend on it, if you will, but because nobody else would. And profit is how we stay safe. We stay liking the business, we stay where we are, and there's nothing wrong with that. And we live in a world where ideals are constantly changing, that profit is bad and capitalism is evil, but unfortunately, without it we can't live. We just don't survive.

Alan Lopez: 1:00:30

I don't care who you are, we have to provide and think about how many people you're employee. Profit is your part, what you keep as a business. But look at who you're sharing it with, and especially in your company. It's not all your business, it's not all yours to keep. You have employees, you have salespeople, you have installers, you have a family as well, but they're all benefiting from the work that you're doing and it's not bad, it's not evil, it's not greedy, it's honest work. That's what it is, and profits, for the majority of the time, reflect that honest work.

Ty Backer: 1:01:18

Amen. I couldn't have said it any better than myself. We were at the hour mark here. Alan, I know you're a busy man. I know you're very important. Your family's probably waiting on you to have dinner right now. But before we get off here, what's one thing that you want to leave our listeners, with our viewers, with some nugget that you want to leave these people, these great people that have been listening to us this whole time?

Alan Lopez: 1:01:42

The thing just because a little selfish, right, I'm a trainer and I like to have people on my trainings. But if you are not attending a training because you feel that you are not working and if you are of the mentality that if your people aren't working you're not making money and that's the reason you're not sending them to training, change that mindset. They are going to be a lot better workers for you. They're going to perform a lot better if you invest in their education. And it might be as simple as attending a GAF training that is free and not having them work for the day. As complex as attending a conference that's going to benefit that you are going to have to invest money in it. Nobody counts or nobody takes into that return of investment for training, especially roofers.

Alan Lopez: 1:02:37

Roofers were kind of again. We're kind of afraid of sending people to an event or training because we're not having them working or if they don't go to the training, they're not going to be selling. Think about it this way what would happen if they go to this training? They get one piece of good information that they can use in their cell and that changes that cell or their future cells by 5% Just 5%, if you can see it that way and invest in your people, let them go. Let them go train, let them go. Send them to conferences, wherever it is. We just came from Roof Go and saw a great conference. Do it, invest in your people, amen.

Ty Backer: 1:03:20

Amen. I love that Way to end the show here. Invest in your team, show them that you love them. It's probably one of the greatest investments we've ever done, and that's investing in our team and going to conferences and attending GAF stuff. Thank you so much, alan, for coming on the show. Brother, thank you for everything that you do for our community and, most importantly, our industry. Because of people like you and pioneers like you and coaches and leaders like you, man, we wouldn't be going in the direction that we're shifting in right now. Thank you for everything you do, alan. Thank you for everyone for tuning in.

Alan Lopez: 1:03:57

Thank you, thank you, thanks so much for being with us. Okay, thank you.