Unlock the secrets to flourishing in the contracting world as we welcome David Summerly to the mic, the mastermind behind Square Dash. He's not just another guest; he's the financial locksmith for contractors grappling with the all-too-common cash flow conundrums. Our banter zigzags from the challenges of payment collection to the juicy intricacies of managed billing services, revealing how these strategies aren't just changing the game—they're rewriting the rulebook.
As we tackle the ins and outs of contractor financing, the conversation pivots to the robust relationship between strong leadership and booming business. Whether it's nurturing novice recruits into seasoned sales champions or spinning tales of career twists that turned stumbling blocks into stepping stones, every anecdote is a nugget of wisdom for aspiring industry titans. Personal rapport and trust in sales take center stage, proving that the cornerstone of success is built on more than just numbers—it's sculpted through authenticity and connection.
We wrap up with a candid chat about the relentless hustle needed to climb the industry ladder. From the streets to the C-suite, the journey is peppered with strategies that transform sales teams from good to legendary. Listeners will come away energized, equipped with a toolkit of tactics for generating leads, fostering leaders, and creating an impact that resonates far beyond the ledger. Tune in, get inspired, and redefine your professional trajectory with insights from the contracting trenches.
Unlock the secrets to flourishing in the contracting world as we welcome David Summerly to the mic, the mastermind behind Square Dash. He's not just another guest; he's the financial locksmith for contractors grappling with the all-too-common cash flow conundrums. Our banter zigzags from the challenges of payment collection to the juicy intricacies of managed billing services, revealing how these strategies aren't just changing the game—they're rewriting the rulebook.
As we tackle the ins and outs of contractor financing, the conversation pivots to the robust relationship between strong leadership and booming business. Whether it's nurturing novice recruits into seasoned sales champions or spinning tales of career twists that turned stumbling blocks into stepping stones, every anecdote is a nugget of wisdom for aspiring industry titans. Personal rapport and trust in sales take center stage, proving that the cornerstone of success is built on more than just numbers—it's sculpted through authenticity and connection.
We wrap up with a candid chat about the relentless hustle needed to climb the industry ladder. From the streets to the C-suite, the journey is peppered with strategies that transform sales teams from good to legendary. Listeners will come away energized, equipped with a toolkit of tactics for generating leads, fostering leaders, and creating an impact that resonates far beyond the ledger. Tune in, get inspired, and redefine your professional trajectory with insights from the contracting trenches.
And we are live. Welcome back everybody to Behind the Toolbelt, episode 218. Today we have another special guest. Stay tuned. We will be back after our short intro from our sponsors. The name of the podcast is called Behind the Toolbelt. We got this isn't live. We might be here for a while, so buckle down. Welcome back everybody. Episode 218 of Behind the Toolbelt. It is a Wednesday afternoon. We appreciate everybody tuning in on their lunch break. It seems like the 12 o'clock Eastern Standard Time has been a success so far. Vic and I get our Wednesdays back with our families. We have had our Wednesdays held hostage for so long, and at least Wednesday evenings anyhow. But we are back. We are back and looking forward to this awesome episode with a good friend of mine, david Summerly, and we thought we would try something different. But Vic, vic's pretty face, who is normally behind the camera. We thought we would put him in front of the camera today.
Victor:I don't even know what that was about.
Ty Cobb Backer:I don't know. I think maybe if you, somebody told me that, I think Victoria was telling me, if you, I don't know Anyhow, but we are here and we are back and Vic is throwing a party On his end of things. But I love it. I am actually down in the great state of South Carolina, over in Hilton Head Island. We are currently making some moves over here in this area. I think I will come back. Hang tight. I think it happens every now and then, but as long as you can hear me, that is all that really matters. Those of you listening on Spotify or on Google or Apple, I guess it really doesn't matter, because all you can hear is my voice. Anyhow, we are making some moves over here in the Hilton Head area. Over here, jan and I have been down for the week. Last week we were in the Greenville area over there with Ken Yant. This week we were with Mike Torreo and his team over here on the island. This week, anyhow, we had a great guest, david Summerly, my friend. How are you, buddy?
David Summerly:I am doing awesome. How are you?
Ty Cobb Backer:I am fantastic the sun is out, it is about 61 degrees and I think back home it is probably around 40 degrees. I am sure those at home are probably pretty envious of me right this second.
David Summerly:Only a little bit warmer down here in Florida, not as warm as we normally like it to be. I think we are 69 today.
Ty Cobb Backer:Oh really, we are out in Florida or Orlando.
David Summerly:I was for like a year, but I am in Tampa now. Just south of Tampa, a little town called Ruskin.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, so you are pretty south and it is only 69 degrees down there.
David Summerly:Yeah, some days it is in the 80s and in the middle of winter, I can't complain. But today, it is 69, not too bad.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, I heard that. So, Vic, what is the temperature up there in the great state of Pennsylvania?
Victor:It is. Let's see here. I can't tell. I think it is in the 40s. It is above freezing. Yeah, it is above freezing, for sure.
David Summerly:As long as you are above ground, we are good.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, above ground vertical and second air. Yeah, I did change one of the settings on the camera there. I did do that for whatever reason. I think these Canon cameras sometimes. I don't know, I don't know why it does that. We haven't figured that out yet but it only happens when I am on the road like this and I use the Canon. One of these days I will break out the Sony, the new Sony camera that we got there.
David Summerly:Yeah, I have headphones, so I can fit in with you guys, yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:I will do it Next time. Maybe I will shave my head. No let's go.
Victor:I don't think I will shave my head yet.
David Summerly:Give it time.
Ty Cobb Backer:Calm down. It all grows back. What the hell.
David Summerly:I wore red for you guys today. A little TC backer red Brought to you by Leedscout.
Ty Cobb Backer:Awesome, there you go. I like that you are hired.
David Summerly:I just love the free t-shirts, but it is a great program they have got going on over there.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, for sure. I talked to Chris last night for a while. Chris Hofstra, with Leedscout. We are launching some campaigns pretty much in all of our markets right now. He has got a great plan. He is very experienced when it comes to canvassing and direct mail and things like that. Check him out over there at Leedscoutcom. Anyone that is interested in canvassing or doing direct mail check him out. Good plug there, david. Thank you, but anyhow, david, what are you doing nowadays? I see you are working for Square Dash. Why don't you explain to us what exactly is Square Dash and what it can do for us contractors?
David Summerly:Yeah, absolutely awesome. So it is no secret that over the years I have had a couple of times where I felt like I didn't get paid. That is nothing new to the industry, and it is not just in ripping. Any door-to-door industry. Alarm sales was the only other time in my life I ever didn't get paid. So any door-to-door job there is a chance of that. Especially, though, in the trades. There are problems with that. For a long time I thought these people are just ripping me off. What the heck? Eventually, I came to realize it is not always that way, because how do I go in and these guys seem like really wonderful guys and then I don't get paid in the end? I am sponsored by Red Bull yet, or are we doing rain?
Ty Cobb Backer:Not yet. We are working on it.
David Summerly:So I ended up figuring out these are good guys. What happens is they have a cash flow issue. When you have a cash flow issue, your job as the leader of a company is to keep the company afloat and sales people can come and go. Sales people might be really great, but at some point in their mind sales people are a dime a dozen and I can get me another sales person and I have to keep the company going. So when they get into these crunches they have a problem. Fortunately, I came across Square Dash. I was looking for work. I was out of work for three months. It was pretty unfortunate.
David Summerly:Square Dash is really fascinating to me because it solves one of the biggest problems in the industry and it is a cash flow issue. All these contractors are putting out all these money going and being hurricane heroes and all these things, spending all this money paying crews out of their pockets and staying out of the check because they are waiting to get paid All these kinds of things. They are going out and spending tons of money, putting tons of cash out there. Then they are in a situation where they can go bankrupt. That is what ended up. My boss was in a situation where he could go bankrupt as a roofer. He said this is a problem, and it is not just me, I am doing everything right. And here I am. I need to fix this. So he created Square Dash.
David Summerly:What it is is a managed billing service where we go in and basically get you your money a lot faster by having a whole team of people for a fraction of what it costs to hire in-house.
David Summerly:You have a whole team of people that specialize in just collecting this money, calling the bug in the insurance company, calling the bug in the mortgage company, doing it in a way that moves things a lot faster, having the homeowner instead of the salesman running around wasting time picking up checks.
David Summerly:That costs the company money. If the salesperson is driving a half hour to go sit down with somebody and ask them for a check instead of a referral, then they are going to the gas station, they are going to talk to the gal at the front desk, talk to their buddy, maybe go to lunch after Next thing. You know you have lost a half day to a day for a salesman to pick up a check instead of a referral. That is a problem. It costs companies hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in revenue and they don't even realize it. What we do is we have people that go in and do all these services for you for a fraction of what it would cost you to hire in-house. Then, if they want, they can click a button to get paid almost instantly, instead of waiting the weeks to months that it takes to wait for the insurance company, the mailman, the mortgage company and so forth.
Ty Cobb Backer:Wow, wow. Now how does that affect? Like, because I know a lot of times with insurance work, the scope of work that the insurance company gives you doesn't always quite match what exactly needs to happen on the job or price while incurred? Right, like things happen, you know, you get the shingles off, and I'm speaking of roofing. Right, you get the shingles off and the sheeting is damaged. So how does that affect that area, like if you got to do a supplement or PWI?
David Summerly:Yeah, so we work with supplementers. We've got like SFY, for example, and balance claims. We're working with both of them right now and their contractors to make sure that we're making it the best possible experience for the contractor and being able to partner with them instead of work against them, if that makes sense. So what we end up doing is there's parts where they take over. We take over. We basically manage that back and forth so that it's less stress on the contractor. We're trying to make their job easier, not harder. And so there's parts of it where they've sent out that supplement and now we go say, hey, where's that supplement, mr Insurance Suggester? And we're bugging them. That's another set of people bugging them and they get moving a lot faster. And so, whether they're working in-house on the supplements or outsourcing it, we work with both. But we're not going to go and negotiate those portions. We're just going to go say, hey, where's the money and what do you need so we can get this moving?
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah. So what is the? So a square dash like an app? Is it a monthly fee? Is it you guys get paid like a percentage of that particular claim, or how does that work?
David Summerly:So I haven't sold them on this motto yet, but I think of it. Like everybody says sell, build, collect. And I say sell, build, square dash. We are trying to become that portion of the industry Sell, build, square dash. And so basically you pay a monthly fee for your billing services, based on your success last year. We lock in that pricing for you for a year so you can scale as far and wide as you want, and that's our problem, not yours. We're going to go with you, we're going to go that extra mile, no matter how big you scale. And so we you're locked in at your pricing for a year and then at that point we'll review it and see what makes sense.
David Summerly:But then if you want to have money instantly instead of waiting the weeks or months, I'm sure I mean you've. You've done a lot of claims, I'm certain. So you know the claims process can take weeks to months to sometimes years. And contractors that want to get paid right now on approved scope, any undisputed funds, they click a button in there, whether it's the front end check, the back end check or multiple checks, they just click a button and say I want to get paid right now and there is a small cost of that, 5%. But when you consider that it's going to cost you a lot more than that if you're 90, 100, 180 days out, the cost of having that money, that capital, sitting out there, having to pay your crew out of your pocket instead of out of the check, having that salesman run off thinking you're not going to pay him, having the supplier charging you more because you're out so far, whereas if you did it within 10 days, abc gives you a discount, like it just makes sense.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, now, and that's a great point, man, there's a lack, actually a lot of great points here in different topics and stuff that we can talk about here, and I think a lot of people, especially homeowners or insurance companies or mortgage companies, don't think about the interest that's incurred from ABC. Right, sometimes you can have a 30, 60, even. I've even heard companies, maybe not ABC, but I'm just going to sum it up as distribution may give you a 90-day term, right, could be 60 days, but then interest kicks in on the last 30, pushing it out to 90 days. And that interest can man? That can range from 1% up to 6% interest there. So there alone, I think, would be a huge benefit if you guys are only charging 5%.
Ty Cobb Backer:And let's just say you got five or six of these claims out there that they're messing around with, you got five or six jobs with ABC, that you're waiting on your money to pay your salespeople, to say, to pay your subcruise, to pay your distribution, and for just a small nominal fee of 5%. At least you know what that is. That's very consistent and you can almost build that into your overhead cost right up front, which, if you're a savvy business person, you would think that right away. And what I think is cool about this too, it sounds like you don't have to use it for every job. So let's just say, you know you got a big, big claim right. You came across this hotel or something big like that, and I would imagine, and I should have probably asked you this question does it matter how big the claim is? Is it like you only deal with like five to $10,000 claims, or can it be a million dollar claim?
David Summerly:Oh no, so right now, under our current structure and that may change in the near future but under our current structure they basically give you what best or most easily can be explained as a credit limit based on your revenue, that you're doing.
David Summerly:So, if you're doing. If you're just getting started in this industry and you're doing $300,000 a month and all of a sudden you take on $4 million overnight, we're going to have to review that and see what we can do about that. But if you're doing $3 or $4 million every month all the time and then you have a big, huge claim, that comes through no problem. It's within your credit limit. Maybe your credit limit with us is 150,000 at a time and as we collect all your stuff constantly, it's adding back into your credit limit and so depends on how much volume you're doing. If you take on a massive claim all of a sudden that's outside of your normal revenue, you may run into a hiccup there. But in the future, when we have our next round of things, that may change.
David Summerly:In all of it's constantly improving so it'll just get better and better for the contractors over time.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, yeah. Now, have you guys partnered with any or made relationships with any insurance companies?
David Summerly:So we've had some conversations with some of them for sure, and long term, we're looking at every direction almost like a futurist every direction the industry could possibly go. It's all trying to figure out what's going to happen in the future and you never know for sure, right?
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, nobody's got. Unfortunately, nobody has a cursed of all as much as I wish I thought I did, or sometimes I even think I do.
David Summerly:But no, that's definitely We'd like to eventually work with them, the distributors at every level, every potential partnership level, the PAs, the attorneys, every level. We'd like to get you know there's only 100% of money, right, and so if you have more than 100% of that check owed out to people, then you have a problem in the first place and we'll probably figure that out. But there's only 100% of the money, and so long term, very long term, thinking here, why couldn't you set it up so that you could issue the money out to each individual claimant as to where they're supposed to have their money?
Ty Cobb Backer:Oh well, yeah, let's talk about that a little more, explain, explain a little more to our viewers about that, that idea that you just came up with.
David Summerly:So, right now we're doing a little bit of research. Part of my job as a partner accounts executive is to have a lot of these conversations about what we can do in the future, and then also, obviously, referral partnerships right. But those future conversations are figuring out like hey, can we figure out a way that that check is owed out to all these different people and we know what the percentages are, and we go ahead and make sure the distributor gets paid faster by issuing that money direct to the distributor, potentially To the PA, the attorney, whatever, whoever it is. I float the idea of even the sales people. Coming from the pain point of a salesperson of not knowing when you're going to get paid or if you're going to get paid at all, of eventually having it even so that the salesperson has guaranteed pay, like, how much better would a contractor do on hiring or recruiting top talent if the top talent knew for a fact they're going to get paid and they're going to get paid quickly?
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, no, it's definitely a great aspect, especially in the storm restoration. It's such a hard job to juggle all of that and I think a lot of people think knocking doors is an easy thing and I know you got experience with that, david basically from soup to nuts when it comes to the roofing industry. I know you well enough to know that once you are a laborer, you are a door knocker, you are sales manager and all that thing. So you've seen it from both sides and know that it's not easy. And, like you said earlier, you touched on it. So it's not that the contractors are bad people. It's just that it's really difficult to manage your money when you don't know when it's going to come, especially if you don't have multiple irons in the fire, whether it be a retail model, whether it be new construction, whatever investors, real estate agencies and I'm just mentioning a few things that I know that has created MRR for us. And it's so difficult to create a monthly reoccurring revenue in the roofing industry unless you're in the commercial space and you set up maintenance contracts and things like that. And this is the other side of the coin too. It's not always the contractors fault, and it seems like you always hear about the bad things about contractors, especially on Facebook.
Ty Cobb Backer:I got ripped off by this guy, but nobody ever talks about I guess there's not enough owners pushing back and saying, well, you didn't follow the process, you lost the company, all this money and no shit. You didn't get paid because you're supposed to hit a certain percentage in order for you to get paid. But not enough people actually talk about that. Everybody talks about how salespeople got ripped off, but if they don't follow the steps and the procedures, no one's going to get paid. You know what? I mean? The person that went out and sold the job or knocked on the door if they didn't follow, whether they didn't know product knowledge or they didn't know what they were looking at or whatever the case might be. Because I know a couple of companies, especially local, the PA. There was this huge company that just blew up overnight and their salespeople were just out selling jobs for whatever, just to sell a job, knowing that they were going to get 10%. It didn't matter what the job sold or they were just going to have to make 10%. But nobody talks about why that company went out of business.
Ty Cobb Backer:Unfortunately, you point one thing. You got three point back, it was because now that I play this through my head a little more, it's due to poor leadership, if you would let that happen to your business. But either case it's difficult. I guess the point I was trying to make. It's so hard to juggle especially finances. Very early in business that worked for somebody that was a salesperson that knocked doors, thought that they could go out and do something like this and didn't realize that this is a cash flow business. You have to keep the cash flowing in, and multiple years ago or however long before square dash, we didn't have square dash, we didn't have things like this. It seems like a great idea, I guess. How close would I guess Inc be your competition in this space? A lot of people.
David Summerly:I get a ton of calls or messages from Inc customers. I've had a couple from Claim Pay customers wanting to come over because we're, I guess, half the price as far as the funding portion. We do obviously all of the billing service, that they realize that it's actually saving the money. Paying us for that service actually ends up saving the money because, like I said, a whole team of people for a fraction of what it costs to have somebody in-house. As they continue to scale, if you've already got everybody in place, maybe you don't see that reward right away. In that sense, as you scale you're going to need to bring on additional admins and for usually the cost of a fraction of one person, you can bring on an entire team from us. It depends on the size of the company. Obviously, if you're doing 60 million a year versus 1 million a year, the number of admins that you would have to bring on in-house is different. The cost is different.
David Summerly:There's a variety of topics there. By the way, I used to be a Mormon missionary at some point too. I had a lot of door knocking experience. There's been other services and some of them have come and gone. There was a company called Genesis that I think was charging 10%. The contractors that I knew that were using it. They loved it. Then a lot of them were like that's too high of a percent, I can't use it. They had some other kind of legal trouble or something, so they went caboots. We've had a ton of people that have been calling us. There have been eight customers. We love everybody over there at Inc. Everybody's over there has been awesome to us. I think they focus mostly on the mortgage processing or something I'm not fully equipped on. What all they do? I probably get asked about Inc more than any other as a potential.
Ty Cobb Backer:Because both are very unique to their niches. You know what I mean. That's why I asked you that question because, like you said, a lot of great people over there in Brian Holiday and their team over there are just a group of outstanding individuals like yourself, david. I was just trying to sit here thinking about the differences there. Like you said, they have their own niche over there and provide a wonderful, great service to us contractors that might need something like that. You guys here, unfortunately, I haven't heard of it until you came along Again.
Ty Cobb Backer:No matter where you go, david, it seems like success follows you. You know what I mean. It really goes into the type of individual that you are and how you represent yourself and the company that you work for. We all know and this could be a topic in itself that most people buy from people. It's not necessarily the product or the company that they're buying from, it's the individual that they're there Because of the type of person that you are, the genuine person that you are sincerely caring for. That individual that you're selling your product to, you really care. That's the one thing that gravitated me to you the most, one instance that stands out. I don't know, I think it was about a year ago. I'm going to get off topic here a little bit and talk about you as an individual, because it's kind of where it originated from, like the person behind the tool belt right, who is the individual?
Ty Cobb Backer:Where did David Summer come from? The woes of not necessarily woes, but there was an instance where there was somebody and I can't remember what it was, but I guess some guy was talking Schmack because I didn't let him on the podcast or something like that. The guy. I didn't even know who he was. Then later I think, I found out that he was in my, my inbox book because we weren't friends. It doesn't show up where it would normally, where your friends are or something like that, but you were the first one to jump right in there, like you actually tagged me in your comment. Back to this dude like tie is like the greatest person that I know, and Then then everybody else timed in. I mean it was like so powerful to see the support of people, not just for me but behind and told about the support everybody had. I didn't even have to say anything to this guy because you guys just drilled this guy. I think eventually he he took his post or comment or whatever the hell it was. I think it was about a year ago, but it was cool, man, and thank you for that, because that's that's true friendship.
Ty Cobb Backer:And I know that we didn't grow up together or anything like that, but when we do see each other at an event, we usually pick right up where we left off. You know and and you've always been, you know, the the same consistent person. Every time I see you, whether you're posting something, it's usually, you know, trying to help somebody out. You know, I've seen so many things like you. I think you're you were taking, you took your shoes off and gave it to a homeless guy one time, like just the same stuff cut from the same kind of cloth kind of guy.
Ty Cobb Backer:That that, that I am the sum of right. They say that you are the sum of those that you surround yourself with and you're definitely one of those guys that you know. I feel like I I want and have my circle today that I know that I could rely on. And again, I know we we haven't been BFF's, but I got a sneaky suspicion if I called you at two o'clock in the morning and and needed a Lift from the airport or I had a flat tire or something that you would probably be the first dude there to answer your phone. And not only that, but come help me. You know, give me a ringer, yeah don't abuse it.
David Summerly:I've had a few guys over the years that would just call and not stop talking for three hours, like that's crazy. But no, I, my ringer stays on because not only have people been there to help me when I needed it, but, on the same note, I've had too many people who didn't call and they're not with us anymore. And so my ringer stays on 24 7, because if you need to call me, you freaking call me period.
Ty Cobb Backer:No doubt, no doubt.
David Summerly:Thank you, that's. That's an honor. I'm honored to hang with you, talk with you anytime, whether it be on here or just in person.
Ty Cobb Backer:Anytime you guys need anything, you can always let me know no doubt, no doubt, I know that, I know that, but I just I wanted everybody else to know that too, that that's out here a great dude man and I always enjoy our time together and stuff. But, um, let's, let's rewind this. Let's, let's, let's find out how, how, or you know, or how, how did the roofing industry find you? Or or how did you find the roofing industry?
David Summerly:That's, that's interesting when you said something a few minutes ago. It made me think of that when I so I worked in industrial distribution sales in a call center and we sold basically Everything it takes to make food, except for the food ingredients. So, for example, the burritos from Ruiz foods. They make these really good burritos and Like they're my favorite. Well, they had a super clean Environment. They were, they, worried about everything being clean all the time, so I only eat those burritos.
David Summerly:But I did that for six years and I was always number one or number two every month. I had this really great boss that I absolutely loved and he Got promoted and was like David, I'm taking with me, and I was like, yeah, that's right, let's go. And the new boss coming in had the option of not letting that happen and he came in and basically said no, I need his numbers, he's not going anywhere, he can stay right in his seat. And that guy was the biggest jerk. He ended up getting fired in a really horrible way years later and he's probably had to go through court for what happened. But it all karma right, it all comes back around. But anyway, this guy was not good to me, told me at one point that he was gonna fire me and my daughter was gonna starve to death like just a jerk. And so I was, like all of a sudden, miserable and fortunately and Not didn't feel like it at the time, but fortunately he fired me. It was devastating. I quietly took my belongings and walked out you know all week and, tail between my legs, walked out to my truck and I got my truck, started driving home and I let out this blood-curdling scream, and it was a scream of oh my god, I just lost my job. What am I gonna do? But it was also a scream of freedom, like that guy was such a jerk and I was so miserable and I kept smiling all the time, trying to be happy, and I was not. And so I was free.
David Summerly:I was finally free and I went home and I laid down on my bed and I said, okay, what am I gonna do? I have a network of people around me that love me. Let me let them know, because if they don't know, they can't help me. And so I just put a post on Facebook I've been at the same job for six years, I'm out of a job, I need help and I put it on Facebook, something along those lines and within 15 minutes I had a job and Like bulb, like oh, your network can really help.
David Summerly:And so I've realized from that point and I've tried to nourish that because I realized the value in that, from that point, right so went over and worked at a marketing company, did phenomenal training, dex media. Then they were bought out yellow pages and now they're Thrive, great company in a sense. Other things about it Maybe not so much, they've changed over time, but at the time I focused on roofers because I realized that they were big ticket, they would get a big check and then they could afford my service more than Somebody whose service was $15, you know. And so I just focused on targeting roofers and specifically Roofers in New Jersey. You know why? Can you guess?
David Summerly:No what do you know about people up there in the in the northeast? You're from there, from up, yeah right, what do you know, man, that?
Ty Cobb Backer:is a hard question. I mean, there's a lot of assholes up here. They're very direct, right? Yeah, they're very direct.
David Summerly:They appreciated a direct approach. I've never been the guy that goes out and gives part of my French, a bullshit Like statement about the company and what we're doing to try and get around somebody. I just am very direct, like this is what we're doing, this is how much it costs, with this, be of service to you, a very direct, not a great salesperson, just very direct and genuine and honest. And so people up in New Jersey would call me and instead of me going though the way around their brain and pretending I was calling for a different reason, I would just play hey, this is what we're doing, this is how much it costs. I would love to do this for you and this is why you can trust me to take care of you. And they, they, they would just appreciate that if I tried to do the company pitch, they would just go hey, man, if you're not gonna tell me what the hell you're calling me for, get off my phone. You know it's very direct and so they appreciated me being very direct. So I focused up at first on just New Jersey and then, as I realized that the the big ticket on the roofers, I expanded out the whole country with roofers and one of those roofers in A long series of events. I got to them in Kansas City. They were partnered with a company that was doing new construction and then they were Build only and they were doing for a bunch of the big name companies and I sold their partner Our top package, and so I was really excited. You know, great job, david.
David Summerly:And then a few weeks later, the owner of the build only portion calls me and he says hey, man, love what you did for my business partner. We've parted ways. I'm trying to do something different and grow a sales team and I'm basically become a sales organization, not just a build an organization, and so I need you to swing by my office and see how you can help me. Awesome, I'm gonna sell them a top package again. Let's go, it's exciting.
David Summerly:So I go by there and it was a job interview and Basically tells me that you know all those roofing and storm restoration and all the opportunity. I was like, hey, man, I think that sounds great. I've got a friend I can refer to you. I don't know anything about roofing or storm restoration, I'm not the guy for you. And he says oh, you don't understand. Every time I've called, you've answered the phone Every time I need something. You actually give a damn. That's the kind of person I want in front of my customers. You have the right character for what I'm looking for the roofing stuff I can teach you in five minutes.
David Summerly:And sure enough, I got about five minutes of training on a roof. He said I think this kind of looks like hail, as he points at some spatter, not splatter and and hands me a stack of contracts. And that was it. And so I learned most in the beginning from most of what I learned from insurance adjusters and then went to SVG for when the storm for their trainings and then Over time just getting to know all these industry experts. They're a lot smarter than me. I learned from all those different guys and it's helped me grow into where I'm at today.
Ty Cobb Backer:Mm-hmm. Wow, no, that's amazing because I knew you had a pretty good history um In the roofing industry and I knew had a lot to do with the you know door knocking portion of that. You know, it's so funny. You know how so many you know Sales people and you know get introduced to the industry the same exact way that you described it. It's like you know, three weeks later You're supposed to be out knocking doors signing contracts with very little you know experience, whether it be product knowledge, how to overcome objections, any of those things. And and I believe still today, you know a lot of companies still try to train their people up, you know, in like a three week period of time and I mean it's that's great If they're coming from the roofing space and they just really need to know. You know, learn your culture, learn your systems, learn your processes and things like that. But it when it comes to you know, you know product knowledge and things like that, especially if you didn't come from our industry, it takes a lot longer To educate someone so they can turn around and educate the homeowner, whether it be the insurance process and helping them Along through that process of the you know the insurance part of it. But not only that, but educating them on like, hey, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna tear your roof off. It's gonna look like a bomb went off. You know, you may end up finding some nails in your yard after we're done. We're gonna try to do our damnedest to pick everything up. But then, after we're done that process, we're gonna inspect the surface, make sure the deckings in great shape, and then we're gonna put down underlayment, we're gonna do drip edge, we're gonna put ice and water in the valleys and then the eaves, along the eaves and Install shingles. And it comes with this kind of warranty.
Ty Cobb Backer:With that you can't learn that in 15 days. You know what I mean. So you know it's funny to hear how you were trained was very similar to the way that I was trained. And then what happens is it takes another six, nine, 12 months to clean up the mess from that same person that pulled into the organization that was supposed to learn all this stuff in 15 days. You know, and the reason why I bring this up is because I think, yes, we can figure out the type of individual in 15 days, like if they're going to be a good fit in an organization, but I think it's unfair to think or say that you know they're going to learn everything and they should be out, whether it's retail or knock indoors or whatever the case might be.
Ty Cobb Backer:However, whatever, if you're selling deductibles or if you're actually selling jobs to homeowners, it doesn't really matter. It takes a lot longer, it takes experience, it takes time, it takes, you know, shadowing people and having people shadow you and being very patient, tolerant, loving, caring, right to get a person up to speed and it takes 30, sometimes 60, 90 days, you know. And then, if you're, if you do other facets of the industry, whether it be siding windows, gutters, there's a whole another, you know, animal inside those facets of the company, outside of roofing. So it's just, it's funny because we try to, we're trying to create right now the university we're calling it TC Bakker University or America's roofing company university and you know it's a 30, 60, 90 day incubator that somebody comes in and you know it's pretty, pretty thorough.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know, like their first week, hour by hour, they'll know exactly what it is that they're going to do. And then the second week they'll know they're going to know exactly what they do, down to the lunch break for 30 minutes. Go drink a Red Bull, go out in the parking lot, do 10 jumping jacks and get your ass back Right like get that blood flow, because we just threw a lot at you. So go, take a break, come in and then get with your. Get with your. You know your tribe leader and he's going to review some more stuff with you, but what happens is when you do that, it's called success by proximity. Just come on in here, hang out with us for 30 days, attend all sales training, attend all sales meeting, go out canvas 300 homes in a week.
Ty Cobb Backer:That should produce you know, three phone calls per 100 flyers should bring in one phone call. So by the end of 30 days they should have built, you know, pretty good pipeline. By the end of 60 days they should have a really good pipeline. And you've taught them how to go fishing and not necessarily feeding them fish, but you taught them how to fish so they can eat for a lifetime.
David Summerly:I love that. I would be curious about some of your techniques for recruiting over time. It reminded me of what you were saying. Reminded me of there's a huge restoration company in the industry that has been well known for a while. Glad you get your camera working again there.
David Summerly:They when I understand that they do, and this is my crude understanding from having heard from people that were big national people there a long time ago but basically they would go and they'd hire 10 guys to go out in canvas and they'd bring them in and let them sit near all the sales people during the sales meeting so they could hear the excitement and how much money they're making, but not actually introduce that as a. This is your opportunity to them. You're just here to be a canvasser. You're gonna make 10 bucks an hour to go out and drop these flyers. If you happen to by mistake talk to a homeowner and turn in a lead, you get an extra hundred bucks If that, you know, turns into something or whatever.
David Summerly:And so what happens is, out of these 10, they all go out and do their job. Eight of them do exactly what they were there to do, or less. Two of them see the opportunity and they're ambitious and they'll go out and make sure they get in front of some homeowners on accident and they end up making way more money than the other ones that day, and next thing you know, they're being invited into the sales meeting to be brought in as a salesperson. So that was one technique I've heard of that's really good for sorting out salespeople, and I think that that's. There's a value to that. There's a balance like character educator, somebody who's actually going to educate, and then also someone, though, that has the ambition or the drive to learn how to be better in sales, and not a slick car salesman type is not what I mean, but there's human communication. You can learn and become better at right.
Ty Cobb Backer:Absolutely, absolutely, unless you do it and try it, and if it's OK and our process is very similar to what you just explained and if they want to continue to be professional cameras, that's fine too, because we need people out there planting seeds and creating touchpoints and strengthening that brand awareness. And that's what's important, especially if you're trying to target a certain age demographic. You don't mean like a 22 to 30 year old that didn't go to college, it's been bus and tables and if you pay him 15 bucks an hour to go out and hand out three to 500 flyers a week, if that's 40 hours a week, that's $32,000, $31,200 a year, right, if you're just putting in, you know 40 hours a week. But then if you're doing like a Saturday like SVG used to talk about is a weekend sales blitz right. So then you get the entire team out there on a Saturday, right, and go and hand out 5,000, 10, 15, 20,000 flyers and the influx of calls that will come in because it takes everybody to make sure everybody's eating and down to the $15 an hour canvasser that's out there that can graduate into. You know, the six figure pathway to success and that's kind of what we're calling it. It's the six figure pathway to success, where it's like you start out as a canvasser and that's how we want you to figure out how to create your own leads. You know from, you know going out canvassing, creating referrals and things like that, and then meanwhile the phone's ringing and then we can also spoon feed some leads to for those that have been around for a while, or if they're your neighborhoods, because if you put a QR code, you know, a lot of times we do post it notes that we've actually gotten through leads Got. There's a QR code on there. That way we can do a matchback and know that this was your post it note. That came from David's neighborhood that he canvassed, or the target parking lot. He decided to go out and start sticking post it notes on people's car windows or whatever you know the case might be.
Ty Cobb Backer:Grill and marketing. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's the more you do. It's a numbers game, right? And so many people, I think, just want to sit around and wait for the phone to ring, especially over the winter months. But over the winter months, that's when you need to start planting seeds, especially in a retail market, right, a lot of? I hear a lot of roofing contractors talk about oh, it's a slow season and shouldn't be. You should be actually working over time over the winter months and the colder months. You should be handing out more flyers, you should be doing more door hangers, you should be doing the sales blitz over the weekends and stuff like that, because you need to plant those seeds. That way, come March, april, may, even the end of February, down here in South Carolina it's like it's spring up in Pennsylvania right now. If somebody three, four months ago was out canvassing the crap out of the local area right now, the phone would be ringing off the hook.
David Summerly:Absolutely. I think that if you want to make it a sellable business, you need to have a more consistent income year round. You can't have a seasonal only business and going out and doing that work is it's been a huge key to success for me. I'm not the best door knocker on the planet. I'm a better, closer than I am an opener. To be honest with you, even though I've got many years of experience in door knocking over most people, I'm not that great at it. I just talk to more people. I've known some guys that could run circles around me as far as engaging the conversation that needs to happen to get on that roof right, but those guys didn't do nearly as much work as I did.
David Summerly:So one of the things that was a secret to success for me at that first roofing company I worked for, while everyone else was sitting around in the office Waiting on leads to come in, I was out knocking on doors and just being genuine and true and this is what we're doing and this is how I can help. And they were making fun of me in the text messages, thinking I was at home sleeping instead of being in the office. How lazy of me. And then that night I came in with a giant stack of contracts and slapped them on the boss's desk and sat down politely and they all shut up and at that point the respect level changed a little bit. So they were a little bit nicer to me after that and came to ask a few questions. But you know, you got to go out and do the work.
Ty Cobb Backer:When you have to go out and do the work, yeah, and that's really what it comes down to at the end of the day is you got to put into work, especially when people aren't watching. You know what I mean and that goes, you know, you got to, you got to outperform, you got to be the hardest working person in the room and it's really easy to do. And if you can talk to people and, like you said, if we accidentally run into a homeowner out there, you know, and that's that's where, like the company history comes into play. You don't need to know product knowledge right away Just to be out there, like hey, we're a roofing company, we're local to the area, we've been in business for 17 years. We help homeowners all throughout your neighborhood and didn't know if maybe you would want me to set an appointment to have someone come out and inspect your roof. You know, and really that's all it takes.
David Summerly:Yeah, there's customers of every kind and stripe. But I find the vast majority of people will forgive you for not knowing something, but they know whether you're telling them the truth or not, no matter how slick you think you're being. And so I hear these guys will go out and they're just good with confidence or words or whatever, and they they can get a few that way. But most homeowners understand whether you're being truthful or not. And one thing I learned working the Hurricane Laura in Louisiana and Ida later Hurricane Laura, though what there was, a ton of contractors came over from Texas into that area and they have certain ways of saying things, so like Iowa is pronounced to them as highway, and so if you're from Texas and you don't know that and you pronounce it Iowa, they know you're lying when you say you're not from Texas and that you're a local.
Victor:And so what they?
David Summerly:would do is they would set you up, they would ask you questions to get you to lie to them.
David Summerly:Because a lot of the Texas roofers no offense to the Texas roofers, seven out of my top 10 cities on Facebook that follow me are from Texas. So I love you guys, but a lot of the Texas roofers that came over would just lie. They were trying to be slick salesmen. Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah, we've been here for years. We got an office and blah, blah, blah, they were lying and the local people knew it and they wouldn't even tell them. They knew it, they wouldn't call them out, they just okay, thank you, I'll get back with you. And then they turned to the other person next to them and they used to lie and you know, and they knew, they knew that they were lying. And so having good character and going out and telling the truth and, like you said, just knowing the company's story, just knowing enough that you can get those conversations going, and then, hey, I don't know the answer to that question, I will get back to you with it and then follow it up, and actually doing so it makes all the difference in the world.
Ty Cobb Backer:Absolutely, absolutely, I mean, and that's what's gonna keep you in business for the longest too. It's just being as genuine and as authentic and as transparent as possible. And that's kind of what has grown our company is that we don't wanna be necessarily considered a storm chaser. We wanna be where the storms are. We just wanna have boots on the ground, establish local community camaraderie with the local and have an impact on a local economy and participate in local community events and whether it be food drives, whether it be diaper drives, whether it be because we wanna be that hometown contractor.
Ty Cobb Backer:And I also think it helps to retain and recruit people that want to come work for a company that's stable and not running around trying to chase storms and you're away from your family at three months at a time and stuff like that.
Ty Cobb Backer:But if you actually open up and take some of your clients with you or some of your clients are already there, whether it be new construction like Ryan Holmes is over here, and the Bluffton area, lenard's here, k-offs here we do work for all of them in nine different, four, five other states as it is, and that's why we're here. You know what I mean. We were able to recruit and retain people because they're not jumping all over the place. We're wherever we go, we're planting roots there, we're gonna become a household name wherever we're at and we're gonna participate in any type of community involvement or improvement that we possibly can. And I think that goes a long ways with like you were talking about. It's just being authentic, like we've only been here for 12 months but we don't plan on going anywhere. We have been in business for 17 years, just knowing the company's story and being as honest as possible as you possibly can.
Victor:I love that.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, yeah, so well, cool man. We're just about 51 or so minutes into this. Man. Is there anything, before we get off here, that you wanna leave our guest with? Whatever? Maybe it's a promotion that you guys are running, or maybe just a golden goose egg that you would like to leave with everybody.
Victor:I appreciate you coming down.
David Summerly:This show. I've watched you grow over many conferences over the last couple of years and it's just been awesome to watch you grow as a show, as an organization, as a speaker and also as a leader. Somebody posted the other day kind of behind the scenes, thomas, I think posted a video of you talking to your team and the leadership in you is just absolutely incredible. And I don't say that just to like stroke your ego like it's nice. Like us, good people have to stick together.
David Summerly:There's a lot of people in this industry that maybe don't always have the best of intentions. Maybe they try to get over on some people, maybe they've got some character issues that they need to work on, but the vast majority of people in this industry are good, solid people and if we're gonna survive in an industry where you can make quick money fast and you're gonna have those kind of folks coming in, the good people have to stick together. They have to support each other, they have to help each other grow, have to be honest with each other and everything we can do to help each other in that way and everything I can do to help you or anyone else in our network that's a good, solid person. And even if they're not, maybe they still need some love. Let's make that happen, you know. So I'm here for it.
Ty Cobb Backer:No doubt. I love that. Thank you so much. And it's about the team. It's not even today. I just I kind of show up. You know what I mean.
Ty Cobb Backer:The team is everything, and I heard something the other day and I think Jim Collins said it I think it's your people. Your people aren't your asset or people aren't your asset. What is your asset is good people. Are your asset, Not just people in general, but good people, or what is your asset? And he's so true about that, because we've had a lot of people come through right, but most of them have stayed. And those that have stayed or have gone, does it matter? They've all changed in one way, shape or form, Whether it was they've become better leaders, They've leveled up in many areas of their life, whether it be financially, personally, professionally, have leveled up. And those that have gone through, I also know are not the same as they were when they came through our company right, and I can only wish them well and I hope that they can go on and make a million dollars or a hundred million dollars and are able to impact just as many people's lives as we have because of what we're doing.
David Summerly:Yeah, sometimes they have to go get in the right place to grow to that next level Right. And one thing I admire about you, just like Hunter Baloo, is the concept I think John Maxwell talks about. It is leaders build leaders and not just followers, and I see that that's something that is really important to you and it's important to me, to Hunter Baloo, other gentlemen like that, adam Benzman leaders build leaders, and I love that there's a leadership culture that's growing in the roofing and storm restoration industry.
Ty Cobb Backer:For sure, for sure and this is the other cool thing about it great leaders right and good leaders attract followers, and great leaders create other great leaders. But what's even cooler is that they also attract other great leaders. You know what I mean and I've been fortunate in that aspect that I've been able to attract really good, smart people smarter than I can even imagine, you know so, smarter than me in most areas of this business today, and that's probably been one of the biggest things that has helped us grow in many areas. It helps me grow personally and professionally but, more importantly, have been able to watch them grow. But the company itself has been able to grow because of those people that we've been able to attract Because, like you said, David, they're into the same things that we're into.
Ty Cobb Backer:We're into impacting other people's lives. Right, and when you can attract other people that are into having an impact on people's lives, whether it be homeowners, whether it be their coworkers great things can happen. When you can attract that many great people trying to make an impact on an industry as a whole distribution, manufacturing and local communities dude, magic happens. Like my pipe dreams. Can't even fathom where we are today, like back in the day I thought, you know, we wanna do these things. And it's like, dude, we're not even. I couldn't even imagine we would be where we're at today. You know, I thought I did, but it's just. Where we're at today has become unimaginable. And the people that are in my life today, you know, the homeowners, our coworkers, people that I met I met a real estate guy today and met him for the first time.
Ty Cobb Backer:I talked to him on the phone the other day. I met him today and it is gonna blossom into such a wonderful relationship because of the things that he's into and the conversation that we had. And then, you know, and when it comes to things like that, it's like that's when you realize that your network has become your net worth, you know, and because of this guy's relationships and the people that he's gonna introduce us to, because of the longevity of doing, continuously doing the next right thing, especially when nobody's watching, it has landed us here in Hilton Head, south Carolina, with some of the big real estate. You know, monsters in the area that weren't like, oh, you haven't been here for 10 years, blah, blah, blah. It didn't matter.
Ty Cobb Backer:These guys know what we're about and what we're trying to do and they're willing to help us out in any way, shape or form possible because of our reputation, has preceded us. You know, thank God. You know, and the people that they know that we know in the connections that we've made, you know through that network. So you know, it's just that again, this goes back to where it's like my pipe dreams back in the day, can't even imagine the reality that we're living today. You know, can I?
David Summerly:share one insight that just occurred to me recently.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
David Summerly:They say that knowledge is power and that it's not what you know, it's who you know, and it occurred to me recently you can know all kinds of people, but if they don't know you, it doesn't matter. Who knows you, what you do and actually can vouch for you, makes a massive difference on your success, more so than knowing them. If they know you, and they know who you are and that you're of good character and that you will come through, that is a massive differentiator. I am curious, before we sign out, you and I have held this conversation and we have not heard much from Victor there.
Victor:Do you have any?
David Summerly:insights for us on this conversation or just in general.
Victor:I just wanna say I appreciate you coming on, man. You starting last year with the conference tour we did, I got a chance to talk to you and you're a decent person, man. You're authentic and you know that's what we're about. And, like Ty was saying, man, we all kind of gravitate to each other and I just appreciate you and I just appreciate you being on the show today. Thank you, appreciate you, yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:For sure? Yeah, for sure. Well, cool man. Thank you for coming on the show with us, david Vic, thank you for allowing us to manipulate you to get in front of the camera today and not behind the camera today, and thank you for all our viewers, our listeners. Don't forget to like, love, subscribe, review us. I believe you can review our YouTube page and our Apple and Google and Spotify. You can review them, but check us out on the replay and if there's any topics that anybody ever wants to listen to, let us know in the comments. And if anybody wants to come on the show, also reach out to Vic, myself or anybody that you know that we know. Reach out to them and we'll get you on the show.
Ty Cobb Backer:So, thank you everybody for tuning in. Have a wonderful Wednesday afternoon and we'll see you next week for episode 219 with Steven Spence, with Project MAPIT.
Victor:See you later. Yeah, see you guys.