Behind the Toolbelt
Behind the ToolBelt is a live, raw, and uncut podcast that brings real, unfiltered conversations about business, leadership, and the entrepreneurial mindset. Hosted by Ty Cobb Backer, CEO of TC Backer Construction, this live show features industry leaders, innovators, and experts sharing their experiences, strategies, and insights. From building successful companies to overcoming challenges, each episode offers valuable perspectives for entrepreneurs and business owners and leaders looking to grow, and make an impact.
Behind the Toolbelt
Building Strong Foundations in Business Collaboration
Join us on an unexpected journey through the world of roofing with our special guest, Tim Brown, as we recount a spontaneous breakout session at Roof Con that turned into a memorable discussion on entrepreneurship and hiring practices. Initially starting with a small audience, our unscripted session quickly gained traction and became a platform for genuine connections, highlighting the importance of adaptability and seizing impromptu opportunities. Our conversation also pays tribute to a pioneering figure in door-to-door sales, celebrating his innovative spirit and the legacy he left behind, symbolized by the gorilla emblem of strength and determination.
The power of networking and partnerships takes center stage as we share experiences from career-long involvement in networking groups like EARN. Explore how nurturing relationships and leveraging referrals can significantly elevate business value and customer acquisition. From sharing personal stories of collaboration to the significance of public speaking and constructive criticism, our discussion underscores the importance of genuine care and empathy in building trust. Listeners will gain insights into strategies that drive business growth and community impact, with a strong emphasis on staying true to core values.
In our exploration of professional growth, we dive into the role of masterminds in fostering learning and collaboration within the roofing industry. By examining successful business models like Southwest Airlines, we illustrate the importance of maintaining a strong company culture and staying true to foundational principles. Delve into strategies for creating personal purpose statements and boosting referral rates, all while emphasizing the collaborative spirit that defines our industry. Whether you're interested in networking, partnerships, or honing your communication skills, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and inspiration for both personal and professional development.
To watch your favorite episodes of Behind The ToolBelt plus much more content, go to our YouTube Channel and subscribe.
You can find us on Facebook and instagram
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWoTMarRV_h-gKZErp7KQAw/
https://www.instagram.com/tcbacker/
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=991937949647176&set=a.409382311236079&__tn__=%3C
Welcome back everybody to episode 253. We're about 4. What did I say earlier? 4.9, 4.86 years into it, we're not quite at that five-year mark. I believe December 18th will be our five-year anniversary, the actual day of when we started this five years ago. So, anyhow, welcome back to Beyond Tool Belt. We thank you for joining us on this episode Today.
Ty Cobb Backer:We have another special guest Stay tuned, and we will be back after our short intro from our sponsors roofing siding windows, gutter, solar. Roofing siding windows, gutter, solar. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome back everybody. Happy Wednesday, happy afternoon. Hopefully you're on your lunch break catching us on this fine Wednesday afternoon. It's bright and sunny. It's probably close to 70 degrees here in South Central Pennsylvania. So welcome back everybody and thank you so much for joining us.
Ty Cobb Backer:We have another phenomenal guest, tim Brown, who is probably one of my most favorite people, not just in the roofing space, but I always love our conversations on and off the air. Anytime that we get together. You are always a you know, a fountain of insight, whether it's personal development or just the industry that you're in the SEO world and just your outside perspective on things man is always really cool to hear. And your creativity like just your video, the commercial that we run for you and how you collaborated, your entire team. They're on it, they're at the at the end. They're all on the ground looking at stuff like that. It's just pretty cool how you brought everybody together and anyhow. So I felt compelled to ask you to come on the show to kind of do like a follow-up, maybe recap, of roof con and what we got to experience together while we were there. Last minute little breakout thing that we did. I really enjoyed that.
Tim Brown:I got to tell that story. Like that was crazy, like so I was walking and I was actually live on my meta glasses and then Ty's like we're going up and like as I'm walking, I'm like, hey, I just like seeing him for the first time that day, or something. He's like somebody didn't show up for our talk on recruiting and culture and we're doing it, or something. I don't know. Did you try to get me to go up with you or did I just decide to go up with you?
Ty Cobb Backer:I think you just decide. I was 2.3 seconds earlier. I was like what time they're like 14 minutes ago. I was 2.3 seconds earlier. I was like what time they're like 14 minutes ago. I was like okay, which booth, which, which breakout room? They're like room three or whatever the hell it was.
Tim Brown:And I think, yeah, sorry it's just crazy that there's more people in there. When we got done. It sounds like there's like 10 people when we got in there and it's 30 people or something like that when we got done.
Ty Cobb Backer:So more people were coming in and I just think that was really fun.
Tim Brown:That was a good time. That was like what.
Ty Cobb Backer:That was probably one of the coolest things that happened while I was there, because there's like this impromptu, I don't know just bold, bold move, bold move of us to just take on that stage real quick yeah, and I think sometimes they're the best that you know that, that that ad lib figured out on the fly type of thing, and I think that's where the most raw, vulnerable, insightful stuff comes from, where God just kind of shakes the truth out of you. When someone asks you a question, you don't have a whole lot of time to rehearse it or, you know, practice it. It's just kind of like you just speak the truth. And it was super cool because, like you said, there was people were leaving. Literally they went as we were walking into the room. People were leaving, but I think when they saw us they started to come back and and Amanda and Tam actually heard my voice they were in another breakout and they heard my voice. They left that breakout and came into our room. So we must have been super loud too. I think I couldn't hear the speaker, so I was like screaming into the mic, so so people could hear me, because I couldn't hear myself in it.
Ty Cobb Backer:But that was super cool to pour into other people on a topic that I think both of us know enough to be dangerous but have experienced it enough, you know. I mean we were both entrepreneurs, we both hired people. Yeah, um, we've, we've been through the ringer on that and we found what has worked for us over the years of being an entrepreneur. But was super. What was super cool about it? Tim is I. I felt like we gelled pretty well and and, uh, you, you were asking the right questions to the people and then they were asking us questions and and we were just vibing off each other was cool well, I was just like it was crazy how it turned out.
Tim Brown:The other major thing is that you won the ben manchaca award, which is incredible, so congratulations. He's got it there in front of him and uh, ben manchaca if you guys don't know him was a sales coach. He was also a door-to-door salesperson, where that a lot of people appreciated his perspective and vibes. He came up kind of quick in the industry and, you know, had some videos go kind of like as viral as it gets in youtube on youtube uh and uh and roofing rather on youtube, and so a lot of people were looking to him and talking to him and he had such a good outlook and vibe on the industry. He was just so excited to be. Every time I hung out with him he was just so excited to be there. He was like this is crazy, like I get to be involved at the higher, highest levels in this industry and people are looking to me and talking to me and he he had previously just had some success, some good success on the doors. So he was. That was just a good vibe, like he was just excited to be there, like when you're around somebody in the industry that's just happy to be there and like grateful that they get a shot. God, that feels good, especially in this industry where you can do pretty well and, um, there is a lot of culture anyways. So he did pass away a few years ago and so they added this um Ben Menchaca award. It's the only award, I think, that they do at roof con and essentially it's it's for, you know, like what you're doing for the community and I also.
Tim Brown:We, we got one. I got one here. Um, I think it was a few years ago when we did the, the, we did one of the first. It felt like the first one of the first traveling. I know there's ones before, but we kind of like a lot of people did traveling, kind of tours after that, um of a of roofing shows and stuff like that. So I don't always remember that whole thing that fondly, but I will say that's pretty cool that we got that, for that and I think it was just, it was a lot and they recognized that we I don't know, I guess we did something good. So grateful for that and it's really cool that you got one. I think the other person that's got one is Joseph Hughes, so congratulations to him. I think that was last year and it's a good group to be a part of, so I'm excited. I appreciate that. I'm glad that you got one, because you definitely are one of those guys.
Ty Cobb Backer:Thank you, thank you, and you guys most definitely have impacted the industry, not just because of that tour, and I think it's.
Ty Cobb Backer:I think that the award goes to people who who have done more than just one and done type of things, that, but somebody that you know, or or groups of people who continuously keep showing up every day, day in, day out, and having an impact not just on the industry as a whole, but your teams, uh, the passion that you have for what it is that you do and pouring in and giving so much of yourself to our community, the roofing community, and that's that's the epitome of what Ben stood for, because he gave freely what was so freely given him. So I mean he I saw him on many podcasts. That's probably one of one of ours and I know Vic would probably contest to this as well as one of our biggest regrets is not getting him on the show when, when we could have, we probably had the opportunity to get him on the show, but he's definitely one of the greats that that we were not able to get on the show in time.
Tim Brown:I like, too, about like. His legacy is like he was a hard worker and he was doing it, you know, every day, and so that was cool as he came up, just like being one of the like. We like the in the trenches stuff, like people that are really getting it done and and even if we're not always like you're a ceo now you got all this office stuff to do constantly. You're not like always out there, but honoring that honor, like all the stuff that is in the trenches, all the stuff that's getting done by the people door knocking, by the people running leads, by the people on the roofs, by the people even answering the phones, you know, and in your office, like those people are the ones that make this whole like, make it work, and so just honoring that and the love goes out to the people that are making this work day in and day out, making these companies great, and so, and basically, I do think the legacy, too, is about that in the trenches thing. Like his.
Tim Brown:His uh, because he was a, that was his thing, that was his emoji was the gorilla, because he was a gorilla on the doors. You know what I mean. He was, it was the gorilla and the knock symbol and so he would get out there. He's talk about how you gotta take the action. You guys, whatever the action is for you to take the action and to take a lot of it and to keep taking it and to not back down. And that was like. That's why his I feel like his emoji was the gorilla.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, yeah, he definitely was one of the trailblazers to make door knocking sexy. You know cause it? It is brutal, I mean knocking doors and getting kicked in the teeth, you know, nine times out of 10, you know that it's brutal and it takes a toll on a person. But, like you said earlier, he had always had such a bright outlook on things and always was so positive and and just gave so much to this community. You know, and and would give.
Ty Cobb Backer:I mean he was on I don't know how many shows I've seen him on. You know, as far as podcasts and stuff like that, he had a YouTube channel. He's always talking about knocking doors and new techniques and things that he's discovered. And, again, like he was just giving this stuff away, like I don't even think he was charging, you know what I mean. He was just really getting after it and and enjoyed what he did.
Ty Cobb Backer:And the cool thing was is that he wasn't necessarily an entrepreneur. He he had worked for several different you know, contractors roofing contractors across the country, but would also travel um to other states to knock doors with teams and stuff like that. So maybe I guess he was a solo penor um in in that aspect of things. But he really went out there and he trained people up and also, would you know, knock doors when a storm would hit in colorado or wherever you know the storms led him to be is kind of like he was a freelance door knocker, I guess there for a while, um, but but the the privilege of of getting this and being recognized, when not trying to be recognized to, to get an award, you know, and that's Vic had made a post about true legacy like that, that's true legacy.
Ty Cobb Backer:If, if I could pass away and they would, they would have an award in in my name and to be a ben machaka award, brother with you and joseph hughes and to be in that. I think we all three should bring these to roofcon next year and they should have this little thing, the ceremonial, you know piece, where maybe we give the ben machaco award to the next person that that has earned it, because this has definitely been and it's giving me goosebumps as I say has been earned and we didn't know we were earning it. But I mean, obviously, people who have seen us doing things even when we didn't think they were watching. You know, so cool Big shout out to Ben his mom.
Tim Brown:I think she was there last year or the year before maybe, when you guys were presented the award, um, but but I think I was having a baby at that exact moment, so I wasn't actually there to receive it, but it was still so excited. I think she was there. Yeah, I didn't.
Ty Cobb Backer:I wasn't there, though yeah, yeah, it was good stuff. So, anyhow, man, we got to collaborate at roof con a little bit, um, not as much as I probably wanted to, um, because I always enjoy our time together. Hopefully you're going on the trip with us to. Uh, came in again, um I want to.
Tim Brown:I want to do something like that this winter. So if it's not I, I. I did love that last week God, that was so fun. Or last, uh, last year. When was that? Was that January? This is this year. It might've been so fun, though.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, so it's again again in January. Um, so we'll be going to Cayman again. Um, I talked to Eric yesterday. He's actually flying in here Monday, sunday, probably Sunday we're hosting swing for recovery golf outing. Nice Monday, the fourth Yep T off is at 10 30 due to a frost. It was supposed to be at eight 30. So we had to push that. So Tam sent out a mass email. So if any of you out there listening right now that plan on attending the golf outing and didn't receive the email yet, we are pushing it to 10 30 where it warms up. It looks like bright and sunny 70 degrees here in south central pa, so it'll be a good day for golf. Um, I'm pretty sure we're. We're reaching our goal, our financial goal. Uh, all all proceeds are going to roofers and recovery.
Tim Brown:it could be you guys have like, is there ability to just sponsor like a whole? Totally is there still those available?
Ty Cobb Backer:yeah, I think today, the 31st, I believe is the cutoff, so that's how much is it per hole? It's like 250 a hole to be a whole sponsor in, we're in, let's go okay, cool, I don't know where to give.
Tim Brown:Tell me where to throw the money whenever.
Ty Cobb Backer:I'll send you the link. I may have already sent it to you.
Tim Brown:Okay, excuse me if I missed it.
Ty Cobb Backer:It's okay, I know you're busy, we're all busy, busy as hell. And then we got 21 Turkey. I think that falls on the 27th this year, the 21st, something like that, but anyhow, it's good. It's good to always have you on the show and thank you for being the very I think you were the very first adopter of sponsorship.
Tim Brown:Oh, I was so stoked, dude. You guys are so aggressive with promoting this thing. Of course I'm going to sponsor.
Ty Cobb Backer:Thank you so much.
Tim Brown:Yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:And then Rufo stepped up and then of course Lead Scout and TC Backer are part of our portfolio companies, so of course we're going to put them up there to be part of our sponsorship. But you know, I think a good topic today for us, especially experiencing a huge networking event. I guess, if you want to look at it like that, anything can be a networking event like this golf outing, right, like we're teeing up no pun actually pun intended, our golf outing on Monday. You know're teeing up, no pun actually pun intended, our golf outing on Monday. You know we're bringing a lot of good people. We got GAF there, we got Certainty there, we have insurance companies there the list goes on of the amazing people. We have local real estate companies that'll be there. So a lot of good people that will be able to network with each other at this event.
Ty Cobb Backer:And networking and partnerships and referrals and stuff like that have been I've been studying it for for quite some time pretty much my entire career I've been involved with with groups. Years ago, at a networking group that meets every week for breakfast it's called EARN the Executive Referral Networking Group is where I actually met John and then we did a Sandler training together and I actually forgot about that part of it. He actually reminded me of the Sandler part of it. But the people that you meet at these things and we were talking briefly, briefly, before we got on the air here that I think the word networking I think a lot of people look at that as like a negative word or just sounds real, real high pressure-y. You know what you know.
Ty Cobb Backer:I don't think people understand, like you know, the network, your network, is your net worth, right, we're here today and still doing things like this due to our partnerships that we've created going back 15, 16, 17 years ago, of people who we did work for then, that we still do work for today over the years, and, and that power and that and, and, of course, what you do and what you provide contractors, tim, you know, with seo's websites, uh, social media content and and all that stuff like that's just as important because that creates other opportunities for partnerships to be created. So you know, that's kind of where my headspace is today and we can go down that rabbit hole as deep as we want to go, because that's really the nuts and bolts, and I think so many people were talking about SEOs and all these things. But like, what do you do with it? Like, when a lead comes in, like how do you nurture that lead?
Ty Cobb Backer:Because I think too many salespeople think you know, once you collect that final check, the sale is over. And the answer to that question is is like the sale is never over. And when I say that, tim, what does that mean to you? When I say the sale is never over, yeah, until they tell you to F off.
Tim Brown:You should be following up with that deal. I actually, just before I got on here, I, there's a guy who literally, was absolutely relentless with me and I, honestly, I've been annoyed, I've been annoyed, I've been annoyed, but then I'm like, at a certain point you just got to be like, holy shit, you have followed up with me so much. I am, I am gonna, I need to talk to you. I am, I am gonna, I need to talk to you. So this guy, um, and like every single way Facebook, linkedin, phone call text, like whatever he got his hands on he was following up with me and I, literally, today I just set like a 10, uh, it's 1135 right now. So 40 minutes ago, I said for me excuse me, in my time zone, I, um, I said you're relentless, dude, I'll do a 20 minute demo with you.
Tim Brown:I'm not saying I'll buy if you'll do a 20 minute presentation to my two sales people on on why to follow up as many times as you have and as as many ways you have, because sometimes it's not about just following up one way, you're just emailing the homeowner again or whatever. Dude, you've got to follow up five ways. You've got to follow up five ways and I get it. I get it. At a certain point their silence might speak loudly, but I just think usually it's a little further than most salespeople go. And if you're trying to talk to them twice and then you're done, why, if somebody expressed interest in your company, if somebody expressed they wanted to work with you at some point, why are you giving up like that? So, absolutely, I think follow up is absolutely key and you're talking a little bit about like the real end goal is relationships. The real end goal is partnerships. The real end goal is that we're we got leads coming out of our eyeballs from all the people that are trying to send us business.
Tim Brown:But I think SEO and any lead gen activity, like really hardcore lead gen activity, is we need to have our own audience and our own customer base and we want to take control. So we're trying to take control and then we're more useful to other people. You're a better partner, I bet, and every contractor out there is a better partner because they know how to get customers directly, not from partners, not from referrals. If you know how to get customers and I have five ways and you should have five ways to get customers. You should always have five at least kind of aggressive lead generation systems, and one of them could be partnerships. Right, but if I've got a bunch of other ways to get customers, then I have more to share with my partners, because now I'm getting stuff that they wouldn't have gotten and I can like let's say it's an insurance agent, or let's say it's a realtor, let's say it's another home service business that I like to refer. We have this other audience that we got somehow right. We got these customers and then you have more to share. So the real end goal is always relationships. The real end goal is always referrals. The real end goal is because they close at such a higher rate, right, like one-to-one, but like in the meantime.
Tim Brown:Meantime I don't want to just sit around when I am not getting as many referrals and or clam around my partner's doors like why aren't you sending me stuff? Like we need to. Like let's go to the homeowners directly. Let's let's knock around jobs at least. Let's do ads, let's get ourselves out there, let's extrovert out into the world and that, hey, we just got done with roof con. So I'll work in a little bit of like summary, like there was a little lighter lead. For let's just be real about that.
Tim Brown:Some people said to me like they're talking about volume of people at the show. And when somebody says that I'm like what are you doing to extrovert yourself out there? Because we were walking around with our little wagon, with our Yeti on it, with all of our waters that have our logo on it. We were going all around to all the booths giving out stuff. We were shaking hands and every single person we were talking to we were acting like they mattered, and that's what you have to do.
Tim Brown:I think that the reason some people have less success in situ like let's say, it's a home show for you the reason some people feel, oh, it's a light home show, what are we? Are you doing video content with all the other home service providers? Are you? Are you talking to them? Just as they're just as important as homeowners for your business? If you talk to a pest control company and a garage door company and, uh, hvac company and uh, you know all the different guys at that show and you say, hey, by the way, is there anything you don't love about your like? What? What else could like the people that you're referring to for roofs and siding better solar, then what could they be doing better? Because we we love to like be a good partner and we'd love to take care of your homeowners. If you ever really just want a company that's like super communicative and we'll get out there very soon, then hey, maybe we should have this conversation, cause we obviously have a lot of people that need your service as well. So, like, really looking at it like it's not just one-to-one how do I get another homeowner? But people will really promote you and they have a lot of like the best thing about that other home service business or that realtor or that insurance agent is that they will have conversations with 50 homeowners in the next couple of months and they really do refer.
Tim Brown:When you act like they will refer and you're nice and you ask for the referrals and you maybe do anything you can to be useful to them. And that's the way I look at partnerships is like I need to be useful first. Right, how can I, how can I be useful to this person? Whatever, I need to look at my assets. What would be useful to them? And for us, it's video content, it's our podcast, it's the fact that we have an audience on social media. It's our reels. We have a million people on our website every year. But what do you have? You know what I mean. What are your assets? Take stock of your assets and how they can be useful to your potential partner and then be useful on the front end. Get them a customer, make a video with them, talk them up If you know they're good, because you can see the reputation, you see them, see all the reviews. You have a mutual customer and they're having a good experience. Talk them up If they could refer you. What are we doing out here? Talk up your homies, because when we talk up our partners, it means more to the end customer than talking up ourselves, and this is the spirit of referrals.
Tim Brown:The reason referral deals close at such an enormous rate is because it's one person telling that homeowner that this company is good. I have one. I'll make it a minute story to solidify this point. Crazy enough, we have a lot of competitors that refer us. Either they have too many in one market or partly because we refer them. We have a couple competitors that we think are actually good. I'll give a couple examples Ascend Digital Marketing and Best Roofer Marketers. Generally, we've heard good things about them. They have good reviews.
Tim Brown:I'm looking at the types of work that they do. I've seen examples of good graphs going upward from our tools that we can see, and so we refer them. Somebody asked one of them recently like who else if not you? And they said hook agency? And that person asked for an introduction and closed, which is wild. Wild and respectfully, I know I owe that guy, I know I owe him one. You know what I mean, because that's wild and that usually doesn't happen. But just like people that are right around the time that they might be purchasing your thing, you want to get referral partnerships going with them. Why not competitors every once in a while? Maybe not that exact scenario, but it is crazy. We've probably gotten more referrals from other marketing agencies than any other referral source, which is wild, which means it's on right.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, yeah. No, it's such a great topic and you've you covered so many different, so many different things. But, but what I liked, what you were talking about earlier about the follow-up Okay, like when it comes to touch points and things this is what went through my head, right, I think, before homeowner even calls you, they need, they need to have like 11 to 15 touch points, right, if they don't know. So when you were talking about, like you know you need five different forms of follow-up, I wonder if there's like a psychology to that, where it's like the follow-up rule, like there's a touch point rule, like you need to get yourself out there so people see you at least 13 times before they call you. So I'm wondering if there's something to that like, is it five forms of follow-up right before they call you back? If you've already presented the estimate and they kind of ghosted you, do you follow up 10 times? Five different forms of it through linkedin, email, text message, phone call. You know what I mean Like. So I think there's something there. I'm not sure, I'm not that smart, but I think we should do some research on that.
Ty Cobb Backer:The other thing you were talking about, too, is referrals, and referrals work both ways, especially if it's B2B. If it's B2B, so perfect scenario. So we had a client who I'm sure came from a referral which actually actually did come from a referral John's networking group. So we did. We ended up building this really nice elaborate deck on the back of this gentleman's home and he posted it on his personal social about. You know how it was nice. He's sitting on his. It was a picture of's sitting on his. It was a picture of him sitting on his porch early in the morning, sun's coming up and he's drinking a cup of coffee. So of course, that makes our heart happy. So John repurposed his photo into one of our marketing campaigns on social media.
Ty Cobb Backer:So Vic and him are actually going to go out and get a testimonial from him. But not only are we going to do that, they're also going to plug his business. This gentleman also owns a business, so we're going to kind of like I don't know if we want to call it cross brand, but we're going to plug him. It was a referral that came from a referral networking group, from somebody that works here that attends that networking group. So the importance of of partnerships is. I can't explain how important that is.
Ty Cobb Backer:By the way, 50% of the phone calls that come in here for leads, 50% of them are referrals Amazing. The other 50% is obviously like some some form of organic marketing or a billboard truck wrap roofer near me. However, they saw us, they went to our website and used that phone number to call us. But, like I said earlier, you need that. That is just as important to keep that engine, because referrals are the engine to growing your business and sustaining your business for the long term. Right, anybody can spend $10,000 a week on Google and make the phone ring, but if you're out burning people and not doing a very good job or not showing up when you said you're supposed to show up or not, getting estimates back. Like you're losing out on 250 more leads per lead. Okay.
Ty Cobb Backer:Because, a human being, us as an individual, and this is just kind of the law of averages. If I would die today, 250 people would show up to my funeral. If I was getting married next week, 250 people would show up to my wedding. That is called the circle of influence. Each individual has 250 people on their contact list that they have influence over that they could recommend somebody else to do a service for them that they would take. They would trust them, they would trust their referral. Ok, so if you lose a contract, if you lose a lead, essentially you've lost 250, potentially 250 more leads, and I don't know if people know that, but that's a statistical fact. Okay, I just wanted to get that out there. And if you read the book, I think, by Bob Berg endless referrals he describes his call, he calls it the sphere of influence.
Ty Cobb Backer:So, and I've I've kind of studied this for a little while the other thing I wanted to talk about the John and Vic story. Vic and John are going to go out and do this testimonial with this other business owner that we performed our services to and then giving more, like you were talking about. You were at RoofCon giving more than what you were receiving in payment. Right, you were giving more value. You're auctioning off a cooler, you're giving waters away, and that's kind of what we do at home shows. You were talking about home shows. So when we go to a home show, and especially the one here in York County, we get this huge booth Like it's. It's amazingly big and fortunately we're a construction company and we have construction workers that work for us that can build an elaborate home show booth studio behind the tool belts there. Because you touched on doing content and we've done that for a decade, but not only that. We also set up a local. We use a local coffee shop. We have them come in, we build them a coffee bar. We don't charge him anything, we're plugging him.
Ty Cobb Backer:So we're networking with Belmont Bean, we're giving him kudos and in exchange he gives us his coffee for free and his people's time to come in and barista or be the barista. I don't know exactly how to, but he brings in two baristas at least. Know exactly how to. But he, he, he brings in two baristas at least. If not, he trains one of our team members to become a barista, to serve coffee all week long to our worthy rivals, to anybody and everybody. So what my point is is that we are giving it at the moment, before you even sign up for an appointment or a contract. We are giving more in value than we were receiving in payment.
Ty Cobb Backer:So we're giving coffee away Anybody that that signs up for an appointment. We are giving more in value than we are receiving in payment, so we're giving coffee away Anybody that that signs up for an appointment. We give them an umbrella Like thank you, we know you may not go with us, but here's a gift and, metaphorically, an umbrella has you covered. So here's an umbrella and we're giving hats away. We're giving t-shirts away because we're not necessarily there to set appointments. We're there for omnipresence, we are there for brand impression Like this is the impression we are perceiving.
Ty Cobb Backer:We are radiating out to the general public, where 3,500 people might come, but we are also going live and reaching tens of thousands of other people that, hey, we're TC Backer and we're here at York County Home and Garden Show.
Ty Cobb Backer:That you know we're really gives us an opportunity and a platform to make those touch points because, yes, you may not need our services today, but you're leaving here with a swag bag full of you know koozies, pens, notepads, t-shirts, hats that you know in the t-shirt and the quality of the t-shirt, right, we're not cutting corners on any of that stuff because we believe in, you know, quality.
Ty Cobb Backer:We're setting up a quality booth with quality workers, with quality products, with quality swag that we are handing out because that is that perceived value that we were trying to cast out into the community in which we live in. So home shows are huge, not only for omnipresidents, but it is also great for re-recruiting your team and the fellowship and the camaraderie and everything that happens while you're there. But you're also setting yourself up a couple of things here for recruiting. We've recruited other salespeople from other companies at our home shows because they're like, holy shit, I want to come work for this amazing Ringling Brothers Circus thing that you have set up here, like this looks really rad and I just want to work for you guys. But the opportunity and you mentioned earlier to network with other local contractors and I don't know how many actual remodelers that we've referred there beyond BLM, we referred them. They're usually a booth across like everybody fights to try to be around us because it's drawing everybody over there, especially the free coffee and we call it roofers roast, by the way.
Tim Brown:But we referred and we've also been able to pick I wish that you guys would also roast the person coming a little bit yeah remember that you remember that uh restaurant with like the the hats, that's like dick's last resort, where they roast you while they're maybe maybe the average home show person can't appreciate that, but I just kind of wish that it was part of it.
Ty Cobb Backer:You should show up, and then we could roast people together.
Tim Brown:Kind of sounds fun. Obviously you don't want to go for their deepest-seated insecurity, but that hat. Looks like it's….
Ty Cobb Backer:Like the mole on their face or something.
Tim Brown:Yeah, like Austin Power, mole Moley hat looks like it's, you know, like the mole on their face or something like yeah, yeah, mole, moley the the line would be scary to to tread on that one, but for sure it'd be fun yeah, it would be fun.
Ty Cobb Backer:Maybe we can roast them behind their back, that way we don't offend.
Tim Brown:Yeah, yeah yeah, no, you're talking about the five touches, right and like. That's also like the brand ends up being five touch. Like you have billboards, you have all these other types of things. People see you, the trucks, so we see those things the yard signs, the trucks and the billboards as part of that touch system. And that was one of the reasons. When we're at these trade shows, we're like how do we get our brand just like everywhere? How did? Because? Because I feel like maybe in this concentrated environment that we could have five brand touches while they're at the show, or maybe even more right and like it's. If it feels like it's everywhere, that's kind of fun. So that's why we did like the water. So I, if I was to besides the roast edition, like the sleeve, like doing a big tc backer logo on the sleeve. Do you guys have anything like that? Maybe that would be. If you don't, that would be like a just a big tc backer logo right on the coffee sleeve.
Ty Cobb Backer:No, we do have koozies. We let Jason put his Belmont bean oh got you Okay, yeah.
Tim Brown:Yeah, valuable real estate. What a great partner Right For you letting him do that and dude, we're always experimenting. So, even though I did five things this this year on partnerships, I feel like I'm just getting started and this next year I really want it to be the year of the partnerships. So I'm just going to go really hard and I feel, like the end of the day, like what is the result that I want? I would love it if there's several partners referring us five customers every month and I think you kind of got to know what we're shooting at right.
Tim Brown:It may be a long time down the road, it's 30 customers coming because there's some of these professional groups Shout out to some of our partners, like Limitless, that help roofers get discounts on things that they're working with. Um shout out to revolt. Shout out to all these industry groups that are kind of masterminds, and I think the mastermind component is coming up in roofing and I'm so happy about that because I think I've been talking about that for years. How you know, in hvac and plumbing and some of these other industries, they have very mature masterminds and I really hope that this continues in this direction, cause I don't think it's just about gurus and coaches, because it's very easy to devalue that if they're not in the game now and I think like, okay, so how do we still learn and not get like skeptical of the information? It's masterminds, so the better masterminds we get. I think this industry is going very fast on that and I think it's already getting really good and I'm proud of our industry this last five years and its growth in that area. But yeah, I'm just like looking at this partnerships thing is like the number one priority for us in 2025 and even though I think one one mistake that I've made in masterminds is always going to the top person or trying to get to the top person in that group and then be like, hey, would you make us an official partner?
Tim Brown:And like I think that there's probably a principle here for home service businesses and roofers, like I think about the new way I'm going to be is like how do I get in front of your whole group? How do I get in front of your whole team, the team at your organization, and give them value the team, not just the top person Because once you look at the team, they're the ones always talking to the customers and as we get to the in front of the team. Let's say I'm starting to prepare like a talk for reps of companies. Hey, this is my social selling, social media top tips for your team as they're out on social media to sell better to your prospects. Your team as they're out on social media to sell better to your prospects. And maybe, like it's that multiple touch followup thing where you're not just like calling them, you're like messaging them on different platforms or whatever. It is kind of crazy how that works, cause if you're talking to them five different ways, like it's hard, hard to say now. Anyways, it is kind of scary, cause as a prospect it's a little intense. But yeah, and so my plan and I'm just more saying where I'm going I've been at the try to talk to the top person and then make the partnership happen there. And now I'm like I'm going to look at the team. How can I be useful to their team in groups of people? And I think that goes easily for roofers and contractors hey, go to the realtor organization and talk to them about what they need to know about roofs as they're selling homes and buying homes with their customers and you know the, the groups of insurance agents, the groups of other home service businesses. How can we get in front of the groups and share value to the groups?
Tim Brown:And that's another reason why, as time goes on, like being good at talking on stages, like getting a little bit more fluid with that, I got I've gotten roasted dude. I got roasted by dimitri. I got roasted by john scenic, I got roasted by jim johnson people I deeply respect and they're like dude. Like they've in the last two or three years because I've spoken a lot and gotten to speak in front of people that I it's crazy that they're even listening, but they, they each gave me some direct feedback and I took it very like it hurts. It hurts, but I'm like going to grow from it and so really it's getting reps in and I think I've gotten a lot of reps this last few years. I've gotten like 30, 40 times to speak and eventually, if I'm concerted, effort and I rehearse, I get better and better and it helps everything in your life, like if you get better at public speaking, god, that helps everything right, meetings, sales calls, everything.
Tim Brown:And like I want to be in front of 20 people, 50 people, 200 people that could refer us. I need to get clearer and more concise with what makes us different, and I need to get a good vibe, give them a good vibe about our company, which is hard sometimes, because sometimes I'm not like in the best mood, but I got to fucking get up there and do something, yes, and I think it's like I care, I care about you, I care about, like. If I'm in front of a group of roofers, I care, I care about this industry. I want this to be good where we're working on this together. This is a. This industry is getting better and better and getting more professional and modern. And then, whoever, whatever group you're in front of, like, how do you align with their beliefs and values? And, like, how can you care more? Cause that's, that's the first you gotta.
Tim Brown:They need to know that you care and then they can hear how you're going to help them as that whole. Like people yeah, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, for sure, for sure, and that's, that's a part of value, right? And I think a lot of people talk about value but I don't think really explain you know what what that means. It doesn't mean give, giving a discount, right. That means giving your time, giving your empathy, means giving your time, giving your empathy, caring, you know, and making a commitment is what value is, not necessarily like what you're giving away for free. You know what I'm saying, so I like what you're saying and you know speaking is huge, right. Like it's only taken me almost five years to start feeling comfortable doing a podcast.
Ty Cobb Backer:Now, 70% of the reason is because of not listening to myself, like when we get off here, I don't go back and listen to myself. Now, I've actually been doing that more so now than I ever have been, because there are certain things that I may pronounce a way that kind of just irks me, like I I practice not saying it that way. Or, you know, I don't know why did I say that? Why do I keep saying that? That doesn't? I'm not, I'm not articulating it well enough. Would I understand that? So you know there's three things when you talk about, you know, professional success, that that you must work on continuously. And that's that's reading, that's writing and that's speaking. All of the most wealthiest, successful, popular, inspirational people, from John Maxwell to Ed Milet to Tim Tebow, to all of them, all of them all have studied things, they read. They read very specific topics right, not not just general knowledge, but very specific things right, so they can speak well, speak intelligently, about that specific topic.
Ty Cobb Backer:And and writing nowadays kind of like average cheating with, with chat GBT, which I think is going to, at some point point in time, not be very conducive. Just like gps okay, on in your car, like I almost can't travel anywhere without gps. I remember the days where I needed, like the map, a map in my car you know what I mean where we'd have to get around town or wherever to try to find something you, we map quested or whatever the case might be. But now we got a GPS and it's like really spoiled me.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, I think chat GBT, I think the world of it, I think you need to use it and apply it, especially when it comes to marketing and and things of that nature, like AI is definitely you got to get out in front of that stuff right now. It's huge, but I think if we get away from actual notebook and note taking and journaling and and those forms of, whether you're using it as an outlet or to get the head trash out prior to having a confrontational conversation. Um, I think we we need to really master and hone in our skills of writing, reading, obviously read everything listening to podcasts, going to events, things like that and and learning how to thread viable sentences together to to be impactful.
Tim Brown:Just noting real quick. I was in a brainstorm yesterday with Dave from dope marketing and because we were working on, we were working on some website pages for him.
Tim Brown:And I was like I was like talking about differentiating features. We really focus on this. Like you really want to figure out what three things you're doing differently than a competitor. You want to understand, like in his case, direct mail, whatever, and yard signs. We want to understand what specifically, as specific as possible and as unique as possible about what your company does that's different than competitors. And in that case he's like let's just use ChatGPT, but ChatG GPT doesn't have the context that you do on your competitors Specifically. Let's say like he had like five or whatever.
Tim Brown:That kind of like postcard stuff is like what do you know for a fact that they don't do? That? You do, you know, and like that's the key is context. So if you give chat GPT all the context, it can be a good brainstorming tool and it's good on the front ends of things and it might be good on some cleaning up of things. Sometimes I use ChatGPT to strip emotion from an email response because I can feel myself getting a little frustrated and I'm like I just don't know how to get rid of this in this content of my email. Please make this less emotional. So it's like sometimes it's good on the very tail end after you've done some thinking and sometimes it's good for like strategic, like organization. I don't think we can all see Like when you're posting from Facebook and it's ChatGPT, so you want to like blend those, but anyways, I was just saying like no, we can't do this because it doesn't have all the context. So right now it's about if you give good context. But in this case we're really trying to understand these key words that would really be sticky to people to fully understand and it's like it's simplification and every and I was talking about that in my talk, by the way, you and I talked together and I had people the next day that came to my talk, I think because they got a preview of the vibe and it was good.
Tim Brown:And my biggest takeaway, I had everyone write down what are three things from your reviews. Like, look at your reviews on Google when where are three things that people are saying more than once that are actually different from competitors? And then how can you broadcast those three things more often, simplify down to three differences and then broadcast those more to videos, to Facebook posts, to Google business profile posts, to on the website, to at the end of a blog post, to in your podcast or when you're on other people's stuff, if you're ever guesting or with other people. So then it's like these things are going out there over and over and over again and ours are consistent, custom and in the trenches, trenches. So us being in the trenches is a big difference for a lot of people that we're. Most agencies are not kind of down in the weeds trying to understand their customer as much as we are and getting out on job sites and doing roofs occasionally and going and shadowing high performers and stuff like that, like just less of that in an agency world. So that is a real difference. But we keep on hammering it. It's kind of the because we get sick of it.
Tim Brown:And I I was at the timberwolves game last night with dave and I pointed out look at that sprite billboard. Well, it was obey your thirst. Do you know how long they've had that motherfucking tagline? It's got to be like 35 years. It's been around that thing. I like the last 20 years at least. Obey your thirst. You know how much discipline and like to be that consistent with one tagline for that long is it's repetition, repetition. Once you get your differences, once you get tagline, a tagline that works, once you it's, it takes a whole ton of restraint to not replace that going into 2025. And I think that's one of the most valuable things you can do is just be consistent. Stick with the current thing, the tagline stick with your messages. Once you get your messages, stick with them, make them sticky and stick with them.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, no, I like that. Figure out what's sticky and what's going to keep people sticking around, or have you stand out over your competition. And I'm sure you've read Blue Ocean Strategy.
Tim Brown:Oh yeah, that's a great one.
Ty Cobb Backer:Big one it out. You know, you gotta you always gotta try to stay on top of it and I think, over time, once you figure that out, that's where that's where the real challenge is, like, so how are we going to stand out? But also restraining yourself so you don't try to reinvent the wheel, because if you're already standing out and it works and staying consistent with that right, like not moving away too far from that because you want to try and experiment with other things. But John and I just had this conversation like, so what are we going to do this year? Right, coming up on 2025. And we've been talking about this for a minute Like we're not going to wait till January 1st and decide, okay, what is our big push. We're already working on things and have been for a minute, because sometimes it takes time for things to come to fruition SEO, it just takes time, right, and and there's other marketing tactics and skills and things out there that that they just take time. So we're we're seeking our next, you know, blue ocean strategy, as we speak right now to you know, what is it? Whether it's value, whether it's I don't know a tagline. You know there's just. You know. And I tell you.
Ty Cobb Backer:One other thing is, too, is like being in our industry. It's difficult not to become so fixated on what everyone else is doing in our industry. You got to open your eyes and see what other industries are doing, like you had mentioned Sprite, okay. So what is Apple doing? What has Apple done over the years? What has Southwest done over the years? And Southwest is definitely a company that we've studied shit.
Ty Cobb Backer:I've studied Southwest for at least the past five, seven years and how they've become the nominee. Right when they've made flight affordable, where they've given you more in value than we're receiving in a plane ticket. Right. Where they've made flight affordable. Where they've given you more in value than we're receiving in a plane ticket. Right, some people won't fly because they don't have first class, they don't have business, they don't have all these other things, but a lot of us do use Southwest because one. They fly just about anywhere nonstop. You get two free bags, right. You don't have to pay for all this extra stuff for other airline companies and their culture.
Ty Cobb Backer:And if you studied Southwest over the past 50 years and what they have done, okay, people enjoy actually working there and it shows when you get onto the plane, when you walk up to the kiosk to get tickets, like everyone who's receiving your bags.
Ty Cobb Backer:When you walk up to the kiosk to get tickets, like everyone who's receiving your bags, taking your luggage to the flight attendants on the plane. So Southwest if anyone is, you know, for New Year's resolution or whatever the case might be they want to be more specific on things that they're studying. I would, I would highly recommend studying Southwest Airlines, because it is now they're getting ready to change Southwest Airlines, because it is now they're getting ready to change. Unfortunately, I think there's going to become a like hostile takeover A CEO from another airline is trying to take over the existing CEOs and they're talking about first class, offering these other things, and again talking about what you were saying earlier not drifting away too far from it and there's a lot of upheaval, with people being frustrated Like you can't change the platform that Southwest has created, because this is what makes them so successful.
Tim Brown:This is what we're going to experience the next five years, with private equity and roofing, by the way.
Ty Cobb Backer:Right.
Tim Brown:There's going to be some really great brands that if they took the wrong deal they might have their customer service affected a lot yeah, and let me tell you why.
Ty Cobb Backer:It's because of the word, why they're moving away from their why, okay, why they do what they do, why they were where they are today. And when you rip, remove the heart out of the company and try to like, do a heart transplant, like that, and and you, you veer away from your why, the giving, the caring, the community events and it becomes just about money. Then the culture suffers, the vibe suffers, the expectation suffer and essentially, what starts to happen is is a customer service starts to suffer because nobody wants to work here. I'm going to get in trouble if I don't meet my quota, all of these things that we've heard about people end up not getting paid because they don't know the process. They don't understand the process because the culture was this way and now all of a sudden, you're telling me to do it this way and it just doesn't feel right.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know a buddy of mine who got bought out by private equity um, or in the process of which may end up not being bought out because now he is a sales rep at his own roofing company and does not like it because of the expectations that they put on him at the rate that he's supposed to sell roofing at Now he's having trouble looking at homeowner in the eye and gouging them the way that this private equity firm. But if he doesn't meet his quota he may be out of a job and his company um. So that's just.
Tim Brown:That's a whole different topic for another time I might have to ask you behind the scenes of that one yeah, but um, but yeah, you don't ever, ever, don't go, don't figure out your why.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, why are we doing this? What? What are we trying to accomplish here in our community, within our team, to our homeowners? Right, figure out that why and lean into it. Right and make that a brand, make that a part of your marketing, make that just radiate everything you do.
Tim Brown:Right, speaking of this, why thing Cause last night? Cause we're talking about chat, should we T? We're talking about the why and I'm going to mix them together in a very weird way. I cause I give I have a outside brain with chat where I've got like all the context ever for my business and my personal life and I put it in there and I give it. I say then I say, hey, ask me 20 more questions to further clarify so you could act as an outside brain and be a good brainstorming tool for me.
Tim Brown:And I asked it for, like if you had to come up with like a two sentence purpose statement based on all the context you have for me. And it said to lead with courage and clarity, empowering my family, team and clients to grow and thrive. I turn challenges into opportunities, build powerful connections and inspire relentless growth, all to create a legacy of excellence and generosity. And I was was like, all right, that might be it, but but, like I've given it so much context, I can't, like I give it all my like leaders and my key people on my team, like their why and like this is like their next big goal. And so, like I'm giving it more and more, cause I'm trying to use it as a brainstorm, as a brainstorming tool, but I actually really liked that, so maybe I'll do a little tweaks on that, and I like having the idea of having a personal purpose statement, though I feel like it's cool.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, for sure, for sure. And there's something else I wanted to mention too. You know, figure out your percentage of calls that come in are referrals, right? And anyone listening right now and even for you, tim, because I know you're going on a mission of building partnerships and stuff like that and let's just say 10% of your calls that come in, or leads or whatever. If it's 10%, make a goal to make it 20%. If it's 50%, make it 60%. Like, have a partnership focused company.
Ty Cobb Backer:Your sales rep should be continuously thinking about, you know, partnerships. How can we partner with those people? How can I ask these people for referrals, but not just being the one? It's reciprocal. It's reciprocal right, like what, what have we given in value right, where we feel as if we can ask, especially if it's a homeowner. In value right, where we feel as if we can ask, especially if it's a homeowner, right? You know, if we did a good job, we did a great service for you. Would you use this again? Yep, okay, great. Would you give us a great review? Yes, any, yes, I would definitely give you a real Okay.
Ty Cobb Backer:Is there three people in your life that you think could use our services right? Well, absolutely, my daughter and Susie and Bob, joan Cross Street, blah, blah, blah. Right, don't be afraid to ask for the referral, but also don't be afraid to partner, like you had mentioned earlier, with other companies. We've partnered with a drywall company and painting company. Anytime that we come across like we could do it ourselves, but we just found it more impactful to give it to ronnie. Ronnie does all of our drywall, all of our paint, insulation, things of that nature, and then he reciprocates that back to us. Right, it's got to be reciprocal. We can't be just taking, taking, taking, taking, asking for a referral, asking for a referral. We need to be the ones that are the connectors, right, in these relationships. We need to give more right and value than we're receiving payment. So for Ronnie, we've given Ronnie definitely way more leads than we have received. But it's in networking.
Ty Cobb Backer:I think a lot of people think too it's about keeping score. This is not about keeping score tit for tat. This is about being the connector, introducing other people to other clients, other, other other services that we don't provide. And, and going back to your question, yes, we have referred our, our competition to certain clients. We have, we have most certainly done that. Have they done that for us? No, was one or two of them sarcastic and somewhat malicious, like ha ha, we have so much work, we're referring people to you. Maybe I'm not going to answer that fully, but I'm just saying it don't be afraid to refer people to other people. Be the one, be the one that's out there actually referring people before you're actually asking for referrals.
Tim Brown:And if you want to feel like it's a flex too, it is kind of a flex, it feels good. I've referred people that hate me because I know what they do. They do a good job on their service and I will continue to do that occasionally. And if they I think it's funny if they you know, if I can refer them three people a year and they hate me, I don't care, because if that's the right thing for that customer, that's right thing for that customer. I'm always gonna. It's not just about creating referral partnerships and whatnot. It's about getting the customer to the thing that's right for them at the end of of the day, that's all that really matters.
Ty Cobb Backer:Truly, at the end of the day, that's all that matters. Cool, we're at an hour and four minutes. Man, is there something that you want to just leave everybody with before we get off here?
Tim Brown:No, sir, I'm just grateful to serve the industry. It's an in-the-trenches digital digital marketing company, hookagencycom. If you ever need us, please say what's up yeah, and and I highly recommend tim to anybody.
Ty Cobb Backer:I mean, tim has done from, for you know, mad respect for you, tim, and and you know why, um, I have asked to do business with tim in in the past and I'm just going to throw this out there and tim declined, um, not because he didn't like me, not because we don't know each other, like each other or trust each other. It's because he was already working with clients in our area. So that's the type of integrity that this man has. I've seen the work that he has done and potentially here in the near future, but you have helped us. You know what I mean.
Ty Cobb Backer:He's gone out of his way to help our team and educate our team, because a couple months ago we had a meeting what tools, what resources are we going to need in the next three to six months to accommodate the monster that we've built moving into 2025? And one of those things was our marketing and digital campaigns and content creation and stuff, and both John and Vic asked if they could have some time with Tim Brown. So even our company and those with my teammates know that Tim's a badass and the first person, the only person that they had brought up that they want to work with, and that's John, and Vic wants to work with Tim Brown on some certain things or projects that they're working on right now. So, hey, you know what?
Tim Brown:I'm learning from those guys too. Man, john, we were talking about the Sandler training thing. I know we're wrapping up, excuse me, it's okay, soft goodbye here. Yeah, Sandler training. And he was talking about how negative. We were talking about negative framing, because he was talking about getting like backstage or something at an Eagles place and he's like you wouldn't be able to help me. It would be too much to be able to help me get to the spot in the back area of the Eagles stadium and the person Because he said it in a negative way, that negative framing actually increased as likely. So I'm I like learning you guys. You got smart people on your team, man, so I'm learning from them as well.
Ty Cobb Backer:Most definitely, and that's that's what that's, when you know you have a good culture. So, having said that, if you haven't liked love, subscribe, share this, or if there's anything that you guys want to hear us talk about, please put them in the comments. Until next week, you guys stay safe, stay rad and enjoy this awesome weather that we are experiencing for at least another week. And if you haven't signed up for our golf, out and get your butt down here and sign up for the golf outing that is November 4th at Regents Glen. There you go.
Tim Brown:We sponsor a whole, you sponsor a whole. If you can't be there, be, be cool, be part of the industry.
Ty Cobb Backer:Roofers and recovery Gang gang gang, gang until next week, See you guys.
