Behind the Toolbelt
Behind the ToolBelt is a live, raw, and uncut podcast that brings real, unfiltered conversations about business, leadership, and the entrepreneurial mindset. Hosted by Ty Cobb Backer, CEO of TC Backer Construction, this live show features industry leaders, innovators, and experts sharing their experiences, strategies, and insights. From building successful companies to overcoming challenges, each episode offers valuable perspectives for entrepreneurs and business owners and leaders looking to grow, and make an impact.
Behind the Toolbelt
Diving Into Growth: Mike Claudio on Overcoming Challenges and Building Business Resilience
Imagine a world where scuba diving and fasting can lead to profound personal growth—Mike Claudio takes us on his journey through these unique experiences at RoofCon 2024, revealing how they forged stronger connections with fellow attendees. As our esteemed guest, he opens up about his professional challenges, sharing the strategies he employed to expand his coaching business amid the complex world of high demands and imposter syndrome. With insights from industry stalwarts like Dave Owens, Mike's narrative becomes a compelling testament to collaboration and confidence as key ingredients for success.
Struggling to push past initial success? We dissect common hurdles like decision-making uncertainty and cultural misfits within teams, offering guidance on when to pivot or persist. The conversation highlights the importance of objective perspectives in identifying and solving upstream problems before they become insurmountable setbacks. From effective hiring to strategic onboarding and training, we arm business leaders with the tools they need to maintain confidence and grow sustainably.
From corporate America to entrepreneurship, we reflect on Mike's daring leap from a lucrative B2B sales career at Verizon Wireless to revitalizing struggling construction and manufacturing businesses. His story emphasizes the often-overlooked monotony and perseverance required to achieve true success. We touch on the vital connection between mental and physical discipline, underscoring how both are crucial in overcoming business challenges. As we conclude, we discuss the significance of supporting content creators and the anticipation of future discussions, rounding out an episode filled with actionable insights and inspiration for entrepreneurs at any stage.
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Welcome back everybody to Behind the Tool Belt. I think this is episode 7 of RoofCon 2024. I started counting episodes just that way I can kind of keep track of 7 sounds like a strong prime number.
Mike Claudio:You know what I mean. Yeah for day 2. Day 2, I'll take it.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, orange County Convention Center, Florida, orlando. We have another special guest, mike Claudio, who's you know we've kind of gotten a little closer here over the, I'd say, the past couple of few months. Here we got to experience Grand Cayman together, uh, bonded there, talked a little bit. You were going through a journey there like a fasting type of thing, which was freaking amazing because they're all of the amazing food that was.
Mike Claudio:I picked a very interesting time to attack a seven-day water fast yes yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:So, uh, we kind of went through that together. Well, you did, I was doing a fearless 44.
Mike Claudio:We suffered together. Yeah, yeah, right, you were scuba diving. Yes, yes, I went. You were scared, I was terrified terrified.
Ty Cobb Backer:But I I had a good uh diving partner uh, tim brown, who didn't, who hasn't, you know, dived dove uh before either, and so we kind of leaned on each other to muscle through that and it was. That was a great experience. But I think that that that small, intimate group of men that were there, all of us like I'm still in touch with Joe Huffman, obviously, eric Tim Brown and I have really gotten close since then, you know. So it was good for me to step outside my comfort zone once again, um and and I was telling we were talking earlier about like I'm starting to get comfortable now actually doing podcasts. So it's kind of like I was telling dick, like I'm not nervous anymore. I, I knew we were going to get everything set up. We actually set this thing up in four and a half hours.
Mike Claudio:90 of it, which that might sound crazy to some, but that's a huge accomplishment, yeah, for like what goes into setting this thing, right.
Ty Cobb Backer:So now it's like okay that now we've reached our comfort level here so now what like? Are we going to get a scissor lift in here next year and raise this thing up with a big ass?
Mike Claudio:you know, 20 by 20 knowing you, you'll have like half the showroom over here. It's covered, but right right.
Ty Cobb Backer:Unfortunately, we're starting to get super comfortable with this so we're fortunately, finally, I'm comfortable with that moment I start to feel comfortable, I I have to, you know, keep pushing so yeah, yeah but uh cool. So what do you? What have you been up to? I know you got a lot of things going on. You got some coaches now doing coaching. What's that like? Like when you go from coach now you're hiring coaches. Like, tell us a little bit.
Mike Claudio:The journey was more on the client side than it was on the coaching side, cause the way that I brought coaches and I promoted client to coach. So I coached you for two years. I knew you, I knew you knew me. I knew you understood the standards. I knew you did things the way that I like coach things to be done. So I trusted you to have the knowledge.
Mike Claudio:But there's two major obstacles that I didn't perceive or understand. So the first was clients early on were like I want Mike. If I can't have Mike, I don't want coaching. I'm like guys, it's not that I don't want to. I have 45 clients. I'm coaching one-on-one. I literally am working 65 hours a week. I can't take more on it. Like you're like oh, my money's not good enough for you. Like no, your money's great, I physically don't have the time left. So that was the first hurdle, was like getting people calling in or doing leads, and that was probably two years ago when we first started the progression. And then the second hurdle that I wildly underestimated is a lot of people are very good at giving advice until they're being paid for that advice and then the expectations on themselves change and then this huge imposter syndrome kicks in and like helping coaches because coaches weren't coach.
Mike Claudio:I didn't hire coaches. I heard business owners who were really good at business so they didn't have a coaching background. That makes sense. So, helping them overcome the imposter syndrome that you can actually help people, because when you go from like yeah, I'll give someone advice, but if it's not good enough it's fine to um someone's paying for this advice, that that wildly, wildly changed. It was a major hurdle to overcome. So it was actually harder to get coaches overcoming the imposter syndrome than it was the clients. Okay, working with coaches because the client needed help. Yes, I get, I didn't hire business coaches. I hired businessmen who were very knowledgeable, who have never coached or public spoke or anything?
Ty Cobb Backer:Did you find yourself coaching them? Your coaches.
Mike Claudio:Yes. So we have a very strong internal. We call it our collaborative approach. So we do like coaches roundtables on a regular basis because what I've always wanted for the client base and the coaching staff is that everybody's getting the best advice possible. And like when you deal with companies of all different. I've coached people at a half a million, I've coached people at 85 million and I've coached everybody in the middle, right and different problems and different sectors and different markets and different verticals and I never wanted anybody to get subpar advice. We've really pushed this let's get together as a coaching staff and collaborate on the biggest, most complex outlier type problems. We can give the best advice. What that did was it gave the clients the best advice possible, but then it also gave the coaches a feeling like I'm not doing this alone. I have a group of people I can go to Like. Dave Owens is one of our coaches. He owns a $30 million roofing company. He's been in business for 25 years. That dude's got some advice you know what I mean and so we can lean on each other and that took a lot of the pressure off. But on a regular basis I'm coaching coaches.
Mike Claudio:But we did make a decision. I consider WinRate Consulting, the major leagues of coaching, and so we had to decide two years ago are we a coaching developmental company or are we a coaching company? And we made the decision to be a coaching company and like, when you come, come into win rate, you're either able to perform or you're not ready. We're not here to get you ready. You know you don't put like a a developmental running back on the Patriots Right, you just don't do it. So, like we decided, either you can do it or you're not ready. Go figure it out yourself, because we don't have time to coach coaches and coach clients. Yes, and the reality is like up until recently I was very in the business, like it took a while for me to navigate my way out because you know I have the highest paying clients, it doesn't cost extra to have me, so there's like a high profitability impact of me coaching people, and so I was like I have the least amount of clients now I've had since I started the company.
Ty Cobb Backer:Wow, what probably a great feeling. So, when you're bringing in these business owners to to be coaches, like, are you specifically targeting certain businesses or is it like is it just the roofing industry?
Mike Claudio:No, no, we were. We're we're construction agnostic, like we've been at basically home. So we've always said if you sell a product or service to a homeowner, you're our clients, so home services okay, so I.
Ty Cobb Backer:My other question is so I I guess you answered. My second question was what? What would be your favorite client then? Yeah, it'd be home services well and like.
Mike Claudio:But back to the question like how I select coaches. Yeah, it's hyper value focus, like I'm huge on core values, I'm huge on mission and vision, as you've like evolved in your business. We've talked about that, and so I'll take the right guy who's got the right value alignment, because I can that person I can trust one-on-one at the room with a client. There's very successful people that I wouldn't like on a regular basis Like hey, mike, you need more coaches. Like nah man, like there's plenty of people that are not ready to live up to the standards I operate at, and so it's less industry focused and more value focused. But then, from a favorite client perspective, it's the same answer.
Mike Claudio:Business is a system. I teach a system and it's not Mike Claudio's way of doing business. I help people determine what they want and then help them develop the steps to get there. I don't need to know how to do any of the services people do to teach them how to be a good leader. To teach them to build culture. To teach them to build leadership. To teach them how to hold people accountable. To teach them to make decisions by the numbers.
Mike Claudio:I'm a very good businessman. I'm not a roofer. I'm not a general contractor, I'm not a builder. I can help anybody build a better business. I stuck to the construction home service space because that's where I had the most personal experience and like I think it's the biggest gap.
Mike Claudio:Like, if you look at client experience and skillset and like the individual contributor, that guy with the tool belt, compared to the guy trying to build a business, and a lot of contractors, as you know, are like, well, I'm gonna start my big, I can do it better than that guy. And you don't understand the business side. I am the business side of construction. I can't construct a damn thing. Like the handyman in my house is my wife. Handyman in my house is my wife. Like I'm not even embarrassed to say like she is the handyman. Like I don't mess with that stuff, I don't have the patience for it, man. But like, when it comes to building people, when it comes to building processes, when it comes to building you know mindset and confidence and grit and resilience. Like I'm that, I'm that guy.
Ty Cobb Backer:What do you think is the biggest issue when somebody comes to you and hires you? What?
Mike Claudio:what has been the biggest obstacle or hurdle that they're trying to overcome? So there's two. I get this question a lot. One a lot of people come to us in desperation. They waited to the last minute. They delayed, delayed, delayed, delayed, asking for help and by the time they do, in a lot of cases it's too late. It's difficult to turn some ships around, not saying we can't, not saying we're not great. But when someone comes into coaching or marketing or anything, if you're in desperation mode, that's like one of the like, a big one. When I say, when people come to us and they're the right clients, it's somebody who got success on their own but knows they're not good enough to get to where they want to go, like that's like hey, I've done something. Like I don't know what to do next.
Ty Cobb Backer:So are you showing like you think their issue is? Is that they don't know how to delegate, they don't have the right team, they don't. They're like they don't have the leadership quality, like what? What are you showing them and teaching them? And what is like they're? Like most people, I guess, because I'm thinking of myself. It's like I know we're going to do X, y, z numbers next year and I'm working on for next year, I'm preparing myself, I'm trying to get the right tools, the resources, the mindset and the skill set to be that ceo of that company. Yeah, okay, so it like what? What would it be like? What? Is it a mental block thing? Is it lack of? Is it's insecurity? Like?
Mike Claudio:there's definitely an insecurity, confidence issue. I'd say one of the biggest things I bring people is I help justify their decision-making, because business is hard and the variables change and a lot of times, like, your first idea as a business owner is right, but you don't know the next step to take, and so what I do a really good job with is like bringing people down and helping them say okay, if that's what you want, this is exactly what you have to get there. And what happens is is when that journey gets hard. If you don't know it's right, you assume it's wrong and then you pivot. I can be like no man, it's hard, but this is the right direction. Man Like you got to stay here. Here's what we can do to like limit the pain. Here's where you'll limit the risk.
Mike Claudio:And I think I've been, like I've coached over 300 companies at this point you know, probably pushing 400 at this point and I've seen so many of like those hurdles and when to stick with the pain and when to push through the pain, but also like when to fire the top performer, like if you've never been coached through that and your fear of saying, like dude, this dude's producing 2.5 million a year, I can never get rid of him, while that dude's poisoning your entire culture, which you've experienced, we've talked about it yes, if you don't know, you'll be better off buying that person.
Mike Claudio:You stick with that decision yeah and just like the same thing, like you could have really great cultural fits. That are bad performers. Those are actually harder to fire because, like they do with me, forever we're kind of going through something.
Mike Claudio:He's a great guy yeah, I just like he's always showing up but like and you don't know how much like objectively, that that decision stopping you, yeah, and so what I give people is aggressive accountability. I'm telling you, I know this is right. Whether you agree with me or not, I'm very confident this is the right decision. How can I then help you? Because, like I have to inspire, motivate, sometimes manipulate the conversation and the data to help you get over your fears.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Mike Claudio:Get over the hesitation. Get over it. Like in firing the top performance, bad cultural fit and firing the golf culture, it's bad performer equally are as bad for your success as a company, but they're very difficult.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, no, and I agree too, Every time we've ever had to make that hard decision and have that that hard conversation because it is hard for us managers and it's hard to do.
Ty Cobb Backer:We've propelled immensely when that person is left, whether they just left on their own, but what I think we have found is is setting up KPIs and then doing a 30 day performance review with somebody and typically you know if you're pushing them to perform, the writing is on the wall and that decision becomes a lot easier. For them to just leave Like I can't, I can't do this anymore, and that's I think that's been kind of our way to avoid that conflict is like look, besides showing them their next 30 days, like look, you've got to complete all these things within two weeks. They're already like looking for a job. So do you do that? Do you help them do that, or do you just simply give them the courage You'd give me the courage to be like look, you just got to cut them loose.
Mike Claudio:No, I'll walk you through exactly what you did have the conversation because I'm great with words, like anything I'm good at. I'm good with words, so I give people the format. If you hired that person wrong, onboarded them wrong, trained them wrong and they got success, now they're a bad cultural fit. The mistake wasn't in not firing them. The mistake is how you I'm really good at seeing upstream problems and say, hey, if we don't want this to happen, you need this in your interview process, you need these core values, you need this onboarding program, you need this training document so I can help them see okay, this is the problem you're dealing with. You can't solve this problem at this point in the journey. We have to go fix it upstream so you never have to deal with it again.
Mike Claudio:That's a really big thing. I bring people. It's like, hey, I'm going to help you talk through this one, I'll help you build the six things you need to make sure this never happens again. And so that's something that you can't see when you're in it. And, being the outside objective perspective, with like the amount of context I've developed over the years, I say this is what's happening and here's the seven things you've done wrong to get us here. There's nothing you can do to make this easier. Just go, suck it up and make the decision, have the conversation and then let's implement these other seven things that I've been telling you you need to do, that you've been delaying on, and this is why Because sometimes, until you experience that pain, you don't know why I was right six weeks ago.
Ty Cobb Backer:You don't know, because I've got clients right now.
Mike Claudio:I've been coaching for four years. They don't question me anymore. They're like Mike. I don't know why that makes sense, but if you're saying to do it, you've been right. Every time I'm doing it, I take companies from a million to two million to 20 million in two, three years, successfully, profitably, with enjoying, still being a good husband, still being a good father, still being in fitness. Like I build championship lives, and that's not just business, not just revenue, but like I teach people how to like, make decisions and build processes that develop consistent outputs, and consistent outputs that you want.
Mike Claudio:There's a lot of people in this building right now. I want to be a hundred millionaire. What do you want? A hundred million? Why, yeah, why the fuck would you want that? Right, you have like. You're like dude, you want that, right, you have like, you're like dude, what are you doing right now? Like two and a half, two and a half million. I want to do a hundred million, kimba, no, like you don't even like. You're like, because they picture 100 million revenue with 2.5 million dollar in expenses. That's not how it works. No, they're like. Well, they got it figured out.
Mike Claudio:No, they don't no no, they don't, and I think that's like helping people realize what they want. How to get there is like the biggest thing I bring people.
Ty Cobb Backer:I think the hardest thing for us was was identifying that issue while as a small issue. I heard what you were saying. If you could find you know those, because all small issues eventually become a big issue yeah, red flags yeah, and identifying that early enough, it in our journey, you know, before it becomes and and I've kind of gotten myself in a position now where it's kind of like, okay, that's, that's an issue and it's going to become even even- and you see it differently now because of the habit yeah, and only through the experience of feeling all of that pain, right and and unfortunately I was one of those guys too that that asked for help a little too late, probably, right and uh not too late, you figured some shit out, yeah, well
Ty Cobb Backer:because, unfortunately and you were talking it's like, but it's never a good idea until we think it's a good idea, you know, and then trying to convince your team that's a good idea. That's a whole other set of issues. It is within itself and trying to get everybody rowing in the same direction. But, like, when the pain's great enough, I think anybody will get off their dead ass and do something about it. But that's without that pain.
Ty Cobb Backer:How can you create sobs or kpis and thing? It's like, okay, when the pain starts to become, it's either a person issue or it's a process issue, okay, and if you have a decent process, it's typically a personnel issue, but you may have also identified a glitch in the process as well, and that's you know. That's the thing. It's like what worked six months ago is not going to work six years ago, and it sounds to me like that's what you're helping us entrepreneurs and managers navigate that process. So what, what has what drove you to want to do this? Cause I know you. You were in sales, okay, was it because you found a gap in our industry? Or like how did this find you? I, I'm assuming this kind of found you, or like how did this find?
Mike Claudio:you? I'm assuming this kind of found you. They did it, absolutely did. So my original why I've actually never told this story, I think publicly, ty, this is a good question. So I've told the story about how I built construction companies as a, we'll say, key employee, found success. People found me, asked me questions. I started coaching for a new coaching was a thing and then I monetized it because I was spending so much time doing it. That's how coaching started, but where my passion for this industry came from.
Mike Claudio:When I was in corporate america, I worked for verizon wireless and I was in b2b sales and I was in charlotte, north carolina, and my my vertical was construction and manufacturing and I went into companies and in the construction space in 2010 trying to sell ipads and like, at that point, everybody's broke and iPads don't make phone calls. But the fuck you mean I'm not spending a thousand dollars Does it make phone calls? No, why don't I need that? Now everybody has a fucking iPad. But in that journey, my client target was five to 500 employees.
Mike Claudio:I stepped into a lot of family run businesses that were broken and I didn't know what I know now then, but I knew that, like man, like these are some people like I'm tired of watching these people work 50 years and have nothing to show for it. They're broken, they're still on the tool belt and like I didn't again. This was like literally 15 years ago. But at that point I knew like I can help these people and that's why, when I leave in corporate America, I went to work for my buddy who was a general contractor. He was that guy. He was that broken, nothing to show for, work hard every day, show up tomorrow, do the same thing. I'm like. I understand business. I understand sales. I understand marketing. I understand process development. I'm great at leadership. I'm going to go chase something more because I live Verizon Wireless. I was 23, 24, 25 years old, making $ grand a year. I was fucking rich, yeah, like like at that age, and I was living in central virginia and charlotte, like that's a lot of money in those cities.
Mike Claudio:But I was like um, I can do more.
Mike Claudio:I I didn't know what that was the time, but I was like I'm gonna go work for my buddy, I'm gonna help him not be that guy, and I fixed him. Then I went to another company I'm gonna help him not be that guy. And then people just started asking questions. But my real like drive to this industry was when I was selling connected technology, working for verizon wireless, watching construction companies in 2010 broken like, like, like when you see it, like dads and sons at a table going like like I can't buy a fucking ipad for me and we can't even make payroll this week, like, and I didn't understand.
Mike Claudio:Again, I had no idea what I was actually observing. Yes, like I do now, right, but I felt called to like see these guys, I'm gonna help these guys figure something out. And, and the reality is, I've helped a lot of people through that scenario of like being in the business and not knowing what to do next and just working hard every day and being a highly compensated employee yeah and that. But that was the old like. I've actually never talked about that before. Okay, yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:I always tell the story about how I don't think I've ever heard. I mean, I've heard bits and pieces of your story, but I I never. I don't think I've ever heard you know like what gravitated you towards helping other entrepreneurs and other business owners, and 2010 was a rough time for a lot of people because we started in 2008, late 2007, early 2008. You know, when things were kind of still popping off at that point in time but that's also the best time to build a business is in the down market. That's a different topic for a different time, but I can only imagine what you got to experience. But it also takes some kind of like it's not magic, but like intuition too to be a person in your position. You almost have to have like a crystal ball. Not that you have a crystal ball, but that foresight.
Mike Claudio:I had an itch, I had. I had a trigger, I had. I observed something. I felt called to it because I was making 160 grand a year. When I went to work for my buddy, he paid me 55 000 salary and I sold five million dollars in revenue for him for 55 grand a year. Wow, I just wanted to go do something, chase something different and that was the start of everything.
Mike Claudio:You know win rate to be everything. I learned about that industry. Everything I did, every problem, every marketing tactic, networking tactic, building a team cash flow. I learned by taking his company from 300 000 to 3 million in two years no doubt. And like I was there for two and a half years my first, my first full year I did 1.5 million in sales. My second full year, I did 3.5. Wow, and I didn't know a fucking thing and what were you selling? Roofs.
Mike Claudio:No, it was remodeling, I was in the bathroom okay, I took over sales, marketing and estimating for a residential remodeling company with zero experience and nailed it, no doubt. And every process that I've taught people I did to build success for myself. And if you looking back, like if I knew what I knew now, what I never went and worked for him, not in a million years, not in a million years, but I go work for that dude knowing what I know now. But it taught me everything because I had to learn it. There was no budget, right, there was no process to follow, there was no documents, there was no price list, there was no sub base. I learned all of that because he was a great doer, I was a great manager yes, and creating this process so when you talk about processes, was it where the process is up here?
Ty Cobb Backer:were you documenting them?
Mike Claudio:uh, the processes was let's try this. If it works, I'll write it down. If it doesn't, we'll fucking start over tomorrow. Right, I have nothing to lose, right? It was doing 300 grand a year in revenue.
Mike Claudio:There wasn't a lot to fuck up like it wasn't a lot there, yeah, and so it was a lot of like I would just test and try, test and try, test and try, get kicked in the face. Kicked in the face, kicked in the face, lose the deal, lose the deal, lose the deal, lose the money. Like that's how I did it. And I started documenting things because, like, that's just how I think, like I'm a spreadsheet guy, and so I started documenting stuff. I started documenting, like well, to get faster at estimating, if I just had a price list of what my subs charge, I don't have to call them every time, oh, what a brilliant idea.
Mike Claudio:You know how much fucking time I wasted not having a price sheet right, like, yeah, like, and I was doing every trade, man, with no knowledge. I had no previous construction knowledge, man, nothing. And I learned how to quote every trade, I learned how to build a price sheet, I learned how to negotiate price and then, like, I did all of that with nothing because I knew, for some reason deep down, like I was going to be able to build an impact bigger than I can imagine and I just wasn't going to give up on that. Wow, and like, looking back, looking back, I was an idiot. I don't know how I did like. I don't know how I built a company man, I really don't know, but that's how you did it.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, that was going to say. I think a lot of us go through the same exact thing that you were just talking about.
Mike Claudio:You don't, you don't, you don't like believe, no, you did and you're like oh man business is hard. No man. Business was really easy. Yeah, people struggling to get leads in 2021. I said they would call it like go get a job. I mean this respectfully, but if you're struggling building a business in 2021, please go get a job. You are not built for it, man.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, now that particular year was a huge, I think, mirage A hundred percent, you know, and that's what I was calling it Like I.
Ty Cobb Backer:We were calling like there's there's a recession coming, this can't sustain itself and no, but again, having that intuition, you know, and that foresight of like and and the experience I think you know, going through what you went through and everything that I've gone through over the years and you, your path was a little bit different. You're on the coaching aspect of things and I'm kind of on the entrepreneurial. You know, construction owner, but it sounds like a lot of our experiences were the same because a lot of it was just through trial and error, not not really necessarily being afraid to do it and step outside of our comfort zone and like, build things Like. You sound like you're a builder.
Ty Cobb Backer:I consider myself a builder. I build companies, I build teams, I build people up and and I think there needs to be a more and this is what's cool about you, mike, is and I talk about this quite often it's like we need people like you in our industry to make it a better place than it was when I found it. Yeah, right, without you and the Tim Browns and the Ericos and and all this new software and technology that's coming into our space right now. You know things are evolving rapid Right and someone that's my age to try to keep up with the times, and stuff like that.
Mike Claudio:It's a good event. There's 200 technology companies, right, yeah, right. Like it's crazy how and like they're all right and they're all wrong, Right In some way shape or form Right.
Ty Cobb Backer:Exactly, and they're not always a good fit too, and I think a lot of times us business owners get get distracted on those, those shiny objects and stuff. So how do you sift through the shit when someone, when, when someone hires you, how do you sift through the shit and and like, do you give them, like, do you create their sops, their kpis, like, is there a dashboard that they like? Or do you just talk to them on the phone on a weekly basis Like, what, what, what tangible things would I get from you.
Mike Claudio:Yeah, so I'm not going to hand you anything, because my goal is to get you to a point where you don't need me.
Mike Claudio:I think a lot of coaches and consultants, like they kind of drag you out by like not giving you the tools on how to do it yourself. So, like I'm going to help you figure out the problem and then we're going to figure out a solution together and we're going to, we're going to collaborate on the solution. So, if you get stuck, I'm going to give you some answers. Am I going to build it for you? Absolutely not, because then you're dependent on me and, like, you don't actually learn how to do anything on yourself and I'm not next to you every day, right, I'm not in your meetings on Tuesdays. So I, you have to like, learn, like how we learned, like with, with a safety net to be like hey, man, do you think that's best?
Mike Claudio:Go ahead and try it, let's see what happens. Right, you're like that didn't work, I know, but you need, you need, like I said, until you come to the conclusion yourself. I have to let you get there, so like. So, coaching has been more. I'm going to tell you what to go do. Recently we started doing some consulting, which is like done for you leadership, where I'm going to come in, I'm going to run your sales meeting, I'm going to run your initiative, I'm going to run your quarterly offsite. And that's been really powerful, because when I coach you, you then have to go coach your team and you're not me. If I just come in and coach your leadership team. The speed of evolution of that company is immeasurable and so like it's a higher price point 's more, more touches right. But the roi is different, because you you don't have to trust that you're going to do what I told you to do after I'm gone and because I'm not in your meetings on tuesdays, but now I can be. Yeah, for the right price, and like I'm enjoying that more.
Ty Cobb Backer:Um do you think you're you're going more towards that?
Mike Claudio:mike claudio is yeah win rate staying in coaching, okay. So mike claudio is kind of done saying the same shit over and over again, like taking that new client from baseline up.
Mike Claudio:I am, I'm pretty over it, to be honest with you yeah but like stepping in and helping somebody lead a leadership team and watch like changing employees lives. You have two. I have two companies right now. I'm stepped in as like a in a fractional leadership role. Both are in the eight figures, multiple eight figures. Both have 40 plus employees, both have a full leadership team and I'm stepping in as like think fractional integrator and I'm leading the leaders in each department and the speed and the results of that is a lot more fun.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, I bet it is Like what's your end goal here?
Mike Claudio:So recently, win rate's still a thing and win rate will always be a thing. I started Zero Dot Management and Zero Dot Marketing, and so this tripod of companies is going to be a business-building platform. I can market for you, I can lead your team if you need me to and I can coach you if that's what you need right now. So like taking a business and saying what do you actually need right now to grow? Is it advice? Is it done for you, is it marketing? And I'm building this tripod and the. The goal will be to turn into a private equity company at some point and be the this overarching. We can take you from zero to exit. Um, wow, and we're doing it. We have two companies right now with lois out and like we're doing it okay and I don't talk about it a lot because, like, I'm not like do the work and then talk about it.
Mike Claudio:Yes, talk about what I'm about to do, right, but like, I started the marketing company eight weeks ago and we got 15 clients already and we're rocking and rolling and what are you doing for some?
Mike Claudio:website, seo, google ads, um. On the consulting side, is that fractional stuff? So we have, like, fractional cfo services, fractional integrator services, fractional ceo is tough but like I can help be your visionary. If you're an integrator, I can help create the vision for you and then like guide you through it. Okay, and so it's not just me, like I have a team in each of these companies, now that we're able to like come in and do it for you, coach you how to do it and market to help you build the revenue necessary to exit.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Mike Claudio:And so I'm building a tripod of companies, right it and let's help you elevate and exit, and then ideally like get a piece of that.
Ty Cobb Backer:As it happens, what's the vision beyond this?
Mike Claudio:Man, I'm too young to like I'm. This is fun for me, okay, like business is my hobby. Man, like I don't. I don't get burnt out on business, um, and so I don't like I need something, just like you might be bored out of my mind. Yeah, so what's on the other side of this would be able to do this at scale, because there's so many business owners that deserve that exit. They deserve that money, they deserve the accolades they deserve to help their team.
Mike Claudio:Like what I think a lot of young business owners miss is exits as impactful and powerful for your team as it is for you.
Mike Claudio:And when you realize that and you're like my goal is to exit to make millionaires on my team, everything changes and like that's the impact I want to make, is like not just helping you do this thing for a short period of time is like I want to come in for three to five years. Help you like CMO, cfo, coo, help you get your business where you want it to a certain like whatever that number is for you and, moreover, they're not people like this is actually I'm enjoying my business again. Like when you actually get some people that know what they're doing. People are starting to enjoy their business again and they're showing up smiling and ready to be there and excited about it and, like you, cannot even come close to understand, like the impact of excited to be at your company again and those people that delay decisions and don't fire the people and don't make the investments, don't stretch themselves, end up hating the thing they built Like recently I've seen a lot of business owners been like oh my God, I'm so glad you're here.
Mike Claudio:Yeah, I'm actually having fun again Like this is exciting again and like that's life changing and so, outside of this man like I'm enjoying being in companies, right now like really.
Ty Cobb Backer:So you're kind of in the enjoyment mode, but have you found yourself in a position where it's like I just don't think I'm having fun anymore.
Mike Claudio:That was coaching.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay.
Mike Claudio:I'm not really coaching anymore, like either I'm coming in, I'm getting a piece and I'm helping you build a company to exit, or I'm not interested.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Mike Claudio:So that's the Mike Claudio side. Okay, into coaching roles at win rate, yeah right and helping that next round of people.
Mike Claudio:I'm loving watching our marketing company. Like we got 10 employees and they're excited and things are fun. We're building processes and like getting results and like doing it right and and like there's like marketing is one of those great worlds. Like coaching, like I basically picked like the worst industries that like everybody hates. But I'm gonna do it differently because my claudio does shit differently right on. So I am, I'm burnt out on coaching. I don't want to take that 1.5 million dollar guy anymore. I just can't tell you why you need to crm like I just I cannot have that conversation. Yeah, I just can't do it, I bet. But like this, like coaching leaders on teams has been very, very personally rewarding no doubt like starting the marketing company and seeing that success will be super rewarding, yes.
Mike Claudio:And like clients getting real results and getting communicated to proactively and transparently. And like our, our, our tagline is driven by accountability, and like I'm going to hold you accountable so that you can hold me accountable. That's what I do is I'll build my whole brand around, and so I'm putting that into marketing, I'm putting into fractional CFO services. I'm really finding a way to build this thing that if you want to grow and you're ready to suffer through that, I'm ready to lock arms with you and get you there. Nice, but you better be fucking ready, because I'm going to work your ass into the ground and we're going to get there, we're going to make it happen.
Mike Claudio:Your team's going to be better and your life's going to be better and your marriage is going to be better. You're going to be healthier. Like one of the companies I joined at the beginning of september, they have five leaders. All five of them chose to do 75 hard with me. Three of them have lost over 30 pounds in 60 days. Wow, you better be ready to do the fucking work, no doubt, and I'm gonna change your life let's talk about how important it is to take care of your physical health I mean, like, how do you measure that?
Mike Claudio:like I mean, I don't have a six pack, but I like I look good, I got a good dad bod going on. But, like you know, it's more about like physical fitness is a representation of your mental fitness, and mental fitness is immeasurable. And, if you can be consistent, like this is a representation of how you make decisions. Yeah, like, oh man, I wish I could get in shape. Just stop putting the shit in your mouth. Like you have full control over that. Yeah, like I work out at 11 o'clock at night sometimes, because that's what needs to happen. Like, yes, and so like I think physical fitness is necessary to evolve your mental fitness. And like your discipline, your endurance, like, yeah, how long can you suffer? Is who makes her like people like, oh man, it's getting so hard I need to let me sit down. Dude, you've been at this for like 11 months. Get off your ass and get to work. And so I think the physical fitness is important because it is a result of mental discipline, and mental discipline is paramount when it comes to running a business, because it's hard. It is there's no way to avoid it. It is going to be hard. You're going to have cashflow issues. You're going to have issues with paying yourself. You're going to have people take advantage of you. You're going to get sued. People steal from you. People take advantage of you.
Mike Claudio:Bad reviews oh man, someone left a bad review today. Cool man, welcome to the game. Like I got sued last week, what do I do? You call your attorney and you let them do their job. Like if you can't handle that, you just can't do it. And like you might be able to build half million dollar company, take home 120 grand a year, and if that's good for you, man, I'm happy for you. Yeah, but that's not like what I'm about. That's not what you're about, and so. But I think the physical fitness is important because it represents the example that you operate by in your mental fitness.
Ty Cobb Backer:yeah, and no, and I like that, the discipline. Without discipline you can't have consistency and, and I think, a lot of it too for me. So, most recently, so we do the fearless 44 and you know, 44 days just isn't enough, it really isn't. That's. That's just scratching the surface and, and I think where a lot of people get hemmed up is that that delayed gratification. I think we've become like this instant gratification world and putting in the time, putting in in the pain and grinding it out. Like it and me, I'm not in the greatest shape of the world, but I'm working towards it Like I want to be, like in the greatest shape of my life by the time I'm 50, I actually want to be 50 years old and I want to say to myself like I have never been in such great shape. But I know that's not going to happen in 12 months.
Mike Claudio:I know that.
Ty Cobb Backer:I know that's not going to happen in 24 months unfortunately, or fortunately, I still have 36 months to to hit that goal but that I think I learned it because I've done about I don't even know six fearless 44s and it's like dude, what the fuck?
Ty Cobb Backer:I worked out every single day for 44 days and it was kind of like lifestyle yeah, it totally is so that delayed gratification and putting into work and I like, how you mentioned earlier, you know, identifying which pains to continue to push through, because I think for a lot of us entrepreneurs, like we don't, like OK, this hurts, like do I continue to keep doing this or do I pivot?
Ty Cobb Backer:Because this seems like the easier, softer way and to have somebody like you in our lives, like no, you need to keep pushing through this, because I've seen hundreds of other entrepreneurs go through this. It's painful, but if you can make it at this, you're going to be at this, this, this totally different level of of entrepreneurship and leadership, and that's the thing where it's like, you know, 10 years ago we didn't have social media, youtube, like all the free YouTube content and the information that's on the internet right now. There is so much out there but nobody wants to take advantage of the free stuff, let alone pay for somebody to come in and like reboot their company, reboot their leadership team where it's like so hard, yeah, but like to that point of the social.
Mike Claudio:Here's what the problem with entrepreneurs today in my opinion, it's like we talk about the biggest problems they deal with. I think one of the biggest issues they have to handle in business is that they think entrepreneurship is supposed to be exciting and fun. Winning is boring and monotonous as crap. It's showing up every day and doing the same shit and no one knows about it. You got to sit down and do the reports and look at things and have the conversation for the 10th fucking time with that person that doesn't want to do their job and you got to show up. You got to be there for your parent. You got to be there as a parent. You'll be there as a husband or a wife and like business is not exciting.
Ty Cobb Backer:No, it sucks it sucks.
Mike Claudio:Yeah, it always sucks because, like it's supposed, that's why 99% of people can't do this. That's why millionaires are in the 1%. Like I want to, I want to make a hundred million but like I want to work like, like, no, like.
Mike Claudio:it is so incredibly monotonous, it's so incredibly boring that they think they're doing something wrong because the YouTubes and the and the Instagrams and Facebooks make it seem like, well, if I'm not having fun and doing exciting stuff and celebrating all the time, I must be doing something wrong. Back to that like how do you maintain course?
Ty Cobb Backer:Yes.
Mike Claudio:I think they think it's supposed to be exciting yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Mike Claudio:We're coming in and high-fiving every day. No More often than not you're walking in with your head in your hands, about to cry, saying how am I going to overcome this one?
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Mike Claudio:And succeed, like you, making 20 years and multiple eight figures. I don't know how I'm gonna solve this. I'm gonna show up and I'm gonna try real hard. Yeah, I'm not gonna give up till I get there right. And that's the difference. And that is monotonous man that is face into the storm.
Ty Cobb Backer:I think it helps when you find your why and identify the why. And success is measured by the impact that you have on people. Right, and that's for me. Of course, I got into it. It wasn right Today. For me, it's purpose before it was survival right.
Ty Cobb Backer:When I got into the entrepreneurship it was all about survival and I got mouths to feed, bills to pay and all that stuff. And then, you know, then there's status right, I think Patrick, but David talks about there's there's four levels, I think. It's survival, then it's status. You know, uh, share your haters wrong. And then there's another level in between purpose. But if you can get to that purpose, that does make it a little easier. Like you still have to have that why? Of course, our family is our why.
Ty Cobb Backer:But when you start carrying that weight of the world on the shoulder and that's why it becomes, that's why it becomes shitty, it sucks because you know, I'm looking out here and I see our team, it's like I know he's relying on me, I know she's relying on me, I know she's relying on me, I know all of these people are relying on me. But that's my purpose today is like to provide those opportunities for those people to buy homes, to have two cars and make babies, to have a family, like there's different levels of this thing where it's like I need to find, like, what makes me happy, what makes me feel fulfilled, or else why am I even doing this? Because it does kind of suck, and there is only 1% of us that will actually go through this pain. But without us we wouldn't have bridges built, we wouldn't have, you know, highways and you know the empire state building wouldn't have been built.
Ty Cobb Backer:If that there we wouldn't have Amazon, we wouldn't have Coca-Cola, all of these things you have to learn and go through and endure the pain. And go through and endure the pain. We wouldn't have all we. That's building wouldn't be but hunter blue building roof con like. I see him pacing back and forth. He, he does not look like he's having fun no, he doesn't.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, these events are grueling right, you know but and people are like why is he such an asshole?
Mike Claudio:well, he's not, but no and not at all, not at all, not at all.
Ty Cobb Backer:And I meant for me, because I'm sure people wonder why I'm such an asshole.
Mike Claudio:We all are. Do you know why? Because we respect ourselves Right and we respect our time. We respect our effort. You know, hunter is like man. Hunter must be killing it. Hunter has lost millions of dollars on these events. Oh yeah, and people are like people and they're like having an opinion. I wish like it was like he totally should have laid this room out differently. I would have totally done this different. Cool man, I'll come to your event whenever you throw it. Yeah, but like people like well, you're an asshole if you don't respect my opinion. Just because you can shoot me a dm doesn't mean I need to receive your opinion. Yeah, like I'm not walking in your front door, being like fat ass, get off the couch, right? Ah, pisses me off, sorry, no doubt no doubt.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, we could keep talking for all day yes, so okay, you're still uh taking clients on yeah, win rate still coaching people.
Mike Claudio:Mike claudio is not okay. Mike claudio's leading business.
Ty Cobb Backer:What's the easiest way somebody could get a hold of you? I'm sure there's. There's all.
Mike Claudio:Yeah, there's people here if you, if you go to win rate consultingcom, you know, if you're interested in marketing services, zero dot marketingcom, you know, and like this sounds super douchey but like if you just Google Mike Claudio, you're going to find my stuff. No doubt ZeroDoubtMarketingcom.
Ty Cobb Backer:And he's got a book. Got a book Hashtag.
Mike Claudio:Too Strong.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yep.
Mike Claudio:How to Win Fast and Win Often in a World Full of Obstacles. Released that. Published that in 2021. Podcasts the Big Stud Podcast Mike Claudio on YouTube Got like 20,000 subscribers and released some videos on a weekly basis.
Ty Cobb Backer:I follow you. I've read your book. I got your book. When are you coming out with your?
Mike Claudio:Great question, ty. Who teed him up for that? I'm fighting somebody on that one. I was actually talking to somebody about it this morning. My first book was my brain dump of stories. I wanted to tell I didn't write it for a person. Right now I'm trying to figure out who's the person I want to impact. Next, what's the avatar? I contributed I think so did you to Sabadi's book. He was targeting new business owners. My last book was written as a general. I want to get my story out. That was like Mike Claudio's first published thing. My next book I want to be more intentional for a specific person. I don't have the answer for that right now. I have three books that I've started, but the first one felt passionate and it poured out of me yeah, I'm not going to force a book.
Mike Claudio:Yeah because it's out there forever.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Mike Claudio:I'm not going to force it. I know for a fact that when it hits it's going to pour and I think as soon as I figure out who that person is, I'm trying to write it, for it's going to happen. But, like right now, I'm really really really deep into building teams. I am a builder of people and a builder of teams and I am loving that to the extreme right now.
Ty Cobb Backer:It's a lot of fun. Okay, one more question.
Mike Claudio:I'll let you go.
Ty Cobb Backer:So, with your book that you've already written, do you look back? Will there be a follow-up to that book because your perspective has changed, or do you still fully believe in everything that you put in that book?
Mike Claudio:um, I think there's some things that have changed due to how technology has evolved and some things that may not work. The same, um and like certain strategies. But like that book was about mindset and preparation and planning and like that would stay the same. Like there's that is a that's like a forever book that like will always be impactful to like how to win. Um, there are a few things that probably wouldn't land in today's environment, just how things have changed. But no, there would not be a version two right on like that was a good, well written.
Mike Claudio:Uh, I was like so I wrote it when covet hit my quick story. So when coveted, I lost all my clients because I was a coaching company and like businesses were like what's's essential, yeah, like well, yeah, whatever. So I lost like a bunch of clients overnight. And April 2020, I wrote the book.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, so I was like I got to.
Mike Claudio:I got to dive into something, or I'm going to dive back into drinking and drunk Mike ain't fun for nobody, yep. And so wrote the book, and then I put it on a shelf, and it wasn't until March 2021 that I read it.
Ty Cobb Backer:And wasn't until march 2021 that I read it, and I read it and I'm like this is a good.
Mike Claudio:it just gave me goosebumps, yeah, um, and like you've read it, so like the first story about my my attempted suicide in 2019 wasn't in the original book. I think god delayed it because I drove home from the gym one march morning, 2021 and it poured out of me and I said it's. My editor was like that's the first chapter of the book. Let let's get this published. It gives me chills, but I've gotten thousands of DMs. Mike, thank you for sharing that, because if you dealt with that, that means I can overcome this and I hope it's created and so I read it in March 2021. So this is a good book. I forgot about it. I just typed it, put it on the shelf, read it a year later, released it, you know, spring 2021. And we've sold thousands of copies and I say sold like I don't. I don't make money from it. You know you don't make money on books, but I've impacted thousands of people with it.
Mike Claudio:And, but that one's good.
Ty Cobb Backer:That's like the first one. You know you don't fuck with the first one, that's right.
Mike Claudio:That's kind of the baseline, this is where everything came from.
Ty Cobb Backer:I just didn't know if you had any regrets. No, no, that was not out there. Not at all.
Mike Claudio:Not one bit Like. Was it a perfect book? Absolutely not. But I was proud of it, no doubt, and I'm still and you should be, you should be.
Ty Cobb Backer:I appreciate it. Thank you so much for what you do for our industry. Please catch this one on the rebound, because on the replay, because this Don't be a taker.
Mike Claudio:This dude puts a lot of effort in Dude, just like the thing. Comment on it, help him out.
Ty Cobb Backer:Thank you Till then. I think our next one's at 1 o'clock. We got CR3 coming on, carney from CR3. I got the franchise model roofing thing. We're going to have them come on here 1 o'clock. Till then, see ya.
