Behind the Toolbelt
Behind the ToolBelt is a live, raw, and uncut podcast that brings real, unfiltered conversations about business, leadership, and the entrepreneurial mindset. Hosted by Ty Cobb Backer, CEO of TC Backer Construction, this live show features industry leaders, innovators, and experts sharing their experiences, strategies, and insights. From building successful companies to overcoming challenges, each episode offers valuable perspectives for entrepreneurs and business owners and leaders looking to grow, and make an impact.
Behind the Toolbelt
Unlocking Growth Through Trust and Culture
Ever wondered how to transform a family-run roofing business into a multi-million dollar powerhouse? Jessica, the insightful founder of Ignite Results, joins us to share her extraordinary journey from her contractor roots to becoming a trailblazer in the roofing industry. She offers a wealth of knowledge on creating effective systems and cultivating strong company cultures, revealing the secrets to scaling a business sustainably. Dive into her expertise in leadership development and high-performing teams, and gain valuable insights into building a thriving business from the ground up.
Track the evolution of roofing enterprises as we uncover the pivotal systems that support this growth, from structured hiring processes to leadership development essentials. We navigate through the intricacies of scaling, discussing the role of key performance indicators (KPIs) and the camaraderie unique to the roofing industry. Jessica's personal experiences and strategies illuminate the path to managing stress and fostering a positive company culture, encouraging aspiring business owners to embrace these lessons and insights.
Join us for a deep dive into the power of empowerment and resilience in leadership. Discover how shifting from micromanagement to a culture of trust can transform your team and boost morale. Jessica and I explore the impact of personal development, spirituality, and maintaining a positive mindset. As we celebrate five years of Behind the Tool Belt, we reflect on the personal and professional growth achieved, setting intentions for the future and emphasizing the importance of expert guidance in reaching business goals. Thank you, Jessica, for sharing your wisdom, and a heartfelt Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to our listeners.
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And we're live. Welcome back everybody to Behind the Tool Belt, episode 260. Thank you for joining us on this Wednesday edition. Today we have another special guest. Stay tuned and we will be back after our short intros from our sponsors. Tc Backer TC Backer. Roofing, siding, windows gutters, solar Roofing, siding, windows gutters, solar TC Backer TC Backer.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Behind the Toolbelt, where the stories are bold, the conversations are real and the insights come to you live, raw and uncut. Every week, host Ty Cobb-Backer sits down with game changers, trailblazers and industry leaders who aren't afraid to tell it like it is no filters, no scripts, just the truth. Please welcome your host of Behind the Toolbelt, ty.
Ty Cobb Backer:Cobb-Backer hey, hey, hey, welcome back everybody. That kind of gave me goosebumps a little bit Today marks I'm just going to throw it out there so we've done 260 episodes, which, if you do the math, that's five years. So, unofficially, I think today's our five-year mark. So welcome to the show, jessica. And celebrating our anniversary of Behind the Toolbox, today is a very special day for us. It's been a long road, it's been a lot of fun and it's been cool.
Ty Cobb Backer:We've met a lot of great people, I've had a lot of awesome freaking conversations and we have not missed one Wednesday in five full years, Like so, 260 times. I've done this. We may have had to move it from like a Tuesday or, you know, from from Wednesday to Thursday or something like that along the way, just because of travel arrangements or something like that, but I should I should go back and rephrase what I said we have not missed a week, not necessarily a Wednesday. So today's today's special day, and I think I think technically, for whatever reason, january 23rd five years ago was actually our very first episode. I don't know exactly what happened or how that equates to our five-year anniversary, but as far as I'm concerned, I've done this 260 freaking times um, every single week. So it's five years baby, so we're gonna celebrate. Yeah, so we're gonna celebrate it today with my friend jessica, who I met a couple years ago. I think um the first official conversation or meeting that we had was at a Jen Silver show. I think the one, one industry, one model.
Ty Cobb Backer:I think, we knew of each other. I think we know know each other through your dad or some other channels or people or whatever. Roofing industry, as big as it is, it's very small. It's a small world that we live in. But I've had the opportunity to listen to you share your experience, strength and hope on stage a couple of different times at GAF's wealth builders a couple of years ago, a couple of times on on Jen's little platform that she had going there for a while and, uh, you're very inspiring.
Ty Cobb Backer:I know you're smart as shit and I was giving you, I was giving you shit earlier. You know, like, where were you, you, 10 years ago, as I was explaining to you how we kind of do our training process, and you're like, oh, we do that, we create universities and we actually have a university. We call it the Six Figure Pathway to Success, TC Baptist University and that's for sales. Now, of course, we have administrative, we have costing, we have accounts payable, receivables, we have almost 100 team members between our different locations and stuff like that. So there's a lot of training. Most of it is a lot of meetings, a lot of training, a lot of follow-up, a lot of follow-through, a lot of accountability, a lot of SOPs, KPIs and all that stuff SOPs, KPIs and all that stuff and to keep it all on the rails is not easy, but it seems like that you've come up with a pretty good solution and I'd like to hear more about that.
Ty Cobb Backer:But before we dive into that, I just want to let everybody know that you are the founder of Ignite Results.
Ty Cobb Backer:You specialize in helping roofing business owners scale their companies and you implement proven systems, building high performing teams, fostering strong company culture and that's the one thing that I kind of emphasize in my arena here is, you know, like culture and building other leaders and stuff like that. So I'm sure I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions like that, because I'm continuously trying to sharpen my leadership abilities and cultivating that amazing culture that I know that you've done for multiple contractors across the country and stuff like that. But anyhow, so what you know, Jessica, why don't you give us a little bit of your background? Because I know you got pretty extensive background in the roofing space. So if anyone wanted to question your abilities, you probably have more experience in the roofing space than most people that are probably watching right now. So give us a little taste of like you know how the roofing industry found you or how you ended up in it, and like where you're at now and what you're doing for our industry today.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, so I feel like I grew up in contracting ever since I was two, because my whole family is contractors. I have five brothers. They're all contractors. My dad's a contractor, so that's how I grew up and that's how I got exposed to the industry is like I'm pretty sure my first step was on a job site, so that's that's really all I ever knew and it really the way that our roofing company was managed about 15 years ago was it was just really poorly managed and just the stress really turned me off of wanting to be in roofing. So I was like I'm going to leave the state and go do something completely different, which was become an organizational psychologist and I got a PhD in that and that's really looking at the study of people at work so leadership, motivation, performance, things like that and worked in corporate for four and a half years.
Jessica Stahl:And then my dad he had a stroke and almost passed away just from the stress of the roofing company. He's actually firing someone when he had the stroke and the person he fired saved his life. But it's like the mafia, like once you mess with the boss, like you're out. So yeah, that's when I started getting back involved in the roofing company and that was probably eight years ago. We were at like 4 million mark and we just implemented hiring systems, training systems, better leadership and went from like 4 to 8 million and then just hit 22 million in the roofing company last year.
Ty Cobb Backer:I mean that that is that's amazing and it's not easy. The roofing industry is not easy and it's probably one of those spaces, up until recently, that has been on on I don't even know the word I'm looking for like unsupervised, you know. Like the HVAC space, you know private equity has been over there for a minute and the plumbing industry and stuff like that and other skilled trade industries I think have had I don't know more monitoring and more more structure, I guess, and and for a lot of us roofing contractors that, and especially a lot that I've that I know and have worked with, you know, like the roofing space ends up finding us. At least for me and I'm only going to speak for myself it's like I really had nowhere else to go and so it was kind of like you know what, I'm good with my hands, I love working with people and I like to build stuff like build something from nothing and build it into something, and for me it was something that I was good at. I was outside and there's a difference from being a roofing contractor to a business owner and I think I don't know for me if that's where, like that, that transition of where I could have definitely have used a lot of structure. You know, like, like you said, it's it's very stressful, it's a it's a stressful job. I mean we're we're up on heights that most people wouldn't even bear to stand to even look at. And here we are two, three, four, sometimes six, 10, 12 stories up doing things that nobody else wants to do. But what I really love about the roofing industry is that it is small and it's like there's a tight knit group of us that are really trying to make a difference.
Ty Cobb Backer:And you're a part of that, you and your dad, your father. Your dad's been on the show man. I can't even tell you On probably every single RoofCon that there ever was a RoofCon. I know for a fact that. So that's at least four or five times. Outside of that, I think he's even been on here and actually at other roofing conferences. Like every conference that I'm at that he's at. He comes on the show, cause I love hearing what he has to say. And you guys, your family is is a part of that. That trailblazing, changing the industry, whether it's, you know, building it up with structure to sell it or just trying to keep it sustainable. So why?
Ty Cobb Backer:don't you give us a like some key systems that a roofing company would need to put in place to scale from like four to eight to twenty two million dollars. Like it sounds great, and but there's a lot more that goes into it than just hard work and tenacity. Right.
Ty Cobb Backer:Because I know, for me it's like you know, I'm from that hustle culture, so it's like you know, as long as I'm out working everybody in the room, I'm going to build a successful business. But there's a lot more that goes into it. Give us those nuances and what systems and key processes that need to actually be put in place to operate a business at multiple eight figures.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, I'll definitely touch on some key processes. I think the first thing to mention is, in order to be scalable, you have to be manageable. Like that's, that's step number one. People are like, oh, I want to scale or I want to sell. Like, stop number one is to be manageable.
Jessica Stahl:And so the first thing that I like to recommend to people is, like we really need to be tracking KPIs.
Jessica Stahl:What does success look like? And for the sales team, whether you're retail or insurance, that could look like you know number of doors knocked and number of conversations had, number of inspections, number of demos, number of contracts, contingency agreements, like really looking at those numbers and getting a handle on the numbers, that's super important. Looking at where your cash flow is going, like where what percent of the gross are you spending on the sales department, on the marketing department, on like callbacks, on looking at the data from your customers, like how many five-star reviews are we getting? Are we getting like poor reviews? So really starting with the data is what I recommend and then having a plan of where we want to go, because, you're right, like between four and eight million is much different than you know the eight to 12 million, between one and 2 million and two and 4 million is different, and so, like roofing by and large is a sales organization. A lot of companies don't have in-house crews, so a lot of that like time effort needs to be first focused on the sales systems.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, so where? What would you suggest you know like? Just just to go back a little bit for those of us that might not know what KPIs are, you know key performing indicators, like you talked. You touched on a couple of them, but what? What do you think are the? Are the biggest KPIs as far as a sales team or a sales manager or an owner should be looking at? What, what, what should I be looking at if I wanted to follow KPIs?
Jessica Stahl:What should I be looking at if I wanted to follow KPIs? Yeah, so I mean it's different for insurance and retail. But I mean we want to look at, like, if we're looking at retail, that's going to be the closing percentage and the profit margin for those jobs. Like, those are going to be your two most important. Like, how many leads are we closing? But within that there's even more KPIs. So, like, we want to know the quality of the lead.
Jessica Stahl:So some of my companies they actually rate before they even go out there. Like, what is this lead quality on a scale of one to five? Is it a one leg or two leg appointment? Are you doing the demo? Like demo to close ratio? That's what I'm really most interested in. Like, have they done the sales presentation at a retail job and what percentage then closed? Not just appointment to close, but what happened in that? Why aren't we being able to sit down with the homeowner? Is it like it just was a bad appointment or is like the conversation and communication skills so poor that you can't even get to that point? Is like, is your inspection process off? So the more KPIs we can track, the better we can go back and retrain because we say, oh, it's your closing percentage, but what is going on in that house that is creating a close, something to close or not close, and then we can go back. So Okay.
Ty Cobb Backer:Do you think that's a training? Is that like a process issue usually, or is that more like a personnel, a personal issue? When you see that their closing rate is down, is it a process issue? Is it a person issue?
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, I mean, and I think that goes back to when you have the data. So if everybody is having issues across the board on a certain thing, like everyone's closing percentage is down, then I would say, like, let's go back, it's a training issue or it's a presentation issue. So like, is it all the reps, their communication is off, or is it like you don't? You're not able to build value in that conversation? So, getting something like a, like a sales presentation software, or the roof in the bag, or being able to explain the value, or is it a pricing issue? That could also be it. Like is the perceived value that you're creating in that sales presentation what's causing them not to say yes at the end? So I think that goes back to being able to track all the data from all your sales reps.
Ty Cobb Backer:That's so good. That's so good. And the reason why I asked that question? Because without having some sort of process or KPIs put in place, you can't differentiate Is it a personnel issue or is it a process issue? Without having the process, you can't identify either one, and sometimes the process does need a little tweak, but sometimes a lot of times, and this is how we operate too. It's kind of like before we start pointing our finger, we realize that there's three pointing back at us.
Ty Cobb Backer:Did we not arm them with the right tools? Did they not get the right training? Do they not understand the product that we're selling, or do they not know how to present the perceived value that we are offering? So I love what you just said, because it is so true on many levels. It doesn't matter if it's in sales or if it's, you know, marketing and KPIs that you have to put in place and figure out what your cost of acquisition per customer is. It plays a huge role in remaining profitable, right? What would you suggest as far as like accountability measures being put in place to hold your team to a certain standard?
Jessica Stahl:Yeah. So that's actually like the first thing I do when I'm starting to work with a new sales team is I'm just asking them what does success look like? So, if they're telling me we want our guys to hit a hundred thousand a month, so if they're, how many doors do we need to knock, how many conversations do we need to have, how many inspections, to be able to hit those numbers? So really understanding what does success look like and what sales activity drives that success, and then being able to meet with your team I, I really like weekly one-on-ones, especially for new people, to have those conversations of where, in the process, are things breaking down.
Jessica Stahl:Like if you didn't sell anything, did you not go sell? Did you not go knock doors this week Because, well then, that's a motivation issue, so we need to just get your sales activity up. Or did you go out there and you completely bombed everything and no one would let you on the roof? Like the way that you're approaching the door is all wrong. Or like the way that you're taking the pictures, you're not. This roof's clearly had damage, so you're not being able to communicate the urgency in that conversation. So being able to have that in a weekly one-on-one meeting. That drives accountability. A lot of times there's no attention to the sales reps, unless you have two months of poor performance yeah, yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:So for for somebody like you, who you know, who does what you're doing now, I mean, if, if we would hire you. Let's go back a little bit. I know you touched on a little bit. If we would hire you, you said you know what would it be the first thing that you would do? You'd get with the owner, the managers, and what would be the things that you're looking for. When you got here.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, I mean the first question that I typically ask is what is our current revenue and what do we want to accomplish next year? So where is that gap? If it's, you know, four to 8 million? If they tell me like four to 20 million, I'm like we need to get back into reality because that's probably not going to happen. But figuring out where the gap is, like that's the problem that I solve.
Jessica Stahl:If you're at 4 million and you want to get to 8 million, we need a roadmap for exactly what needs to happen. So first I need you to tell me what you want and why you want it, and then also recognize that just because you're growing your top line revenue doesn't mean you're growing your profit margin at the same time. So we need to scale successfully and with a plan, or you're going to run into major cashflow issues. Just because you sold it doesn't mean you're collecting it. So like, really think of me thinking of it holistically, of what we want to accomplish.
Jessica Stahl:And then we need the process in place, and it's always processed before people, always. So if you cannot bring effective people into an ineffective process and think that that's going to work, not going to happen, and what a lot of times roofing companies. They just think we have a recruiting problem. That's what everyone thinks is we have a recruiting problem. We can just get the right people in here. And that's not the case. Like, if you do not have documented processes, if you don't have a way for them to effectively work together, good people are going to go somewhere else to better companies. So it's always the strategy and then the process and then the people to bring into that.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, and then do you leave them something tangible after you come in and you kind of get them on the right track Like is there something that you leave behind? Do you do follow-up calls, like give us that back end after you come in and kind of correct some things. How do you hold them? I guess it's not your job to hold them accountable. How would they know that they're continuously doing the next right thing? I guess?
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, I typically work with companies between three months and a year. So whenever we are making these changes, I'm meeting with them every single week to help drive these changes. So if it's like, okay, we need to build a new sales team, the way I work with contractors is, I mean, it's much different than when it used to be, because I would say, all right, I need you to go write out what good performance looks like, and nobody ever does it. So I do a lot of handholding in my consulting probably more so than any other consultant, because I want it to work and be right and I just say I need you to show up to a call with me and I'm going to do everything for you. I just need you to tell me some information. I'm going to write the strategic plan. I'll write out the KPIs for you. I'm going to create your one-on-one sheets. I'm going to create your training. I'm going to go get the salespeople for you, Like all of it's done for them, because it's just like the level of attention to detail and the speed at which it needs to go is not going to happen with a contractor doing it themselves.
Jessica Stahl:Like we're very much done for you, done for you consulting. So at the end of that we're almost always on target. If they're like we want to go four to eight million, or like eight to 12 million, almost always on target because we have a project plan for every single week of what needs to happen in order for us to get there. So a ton of documentation. All your SOPs are mapped out, custom written for you, Like we're writing your process for you, filming videos, recruiting for you. So a lot of done for you. Help type work.
Ty Cobb Backer:Wow, so do you have an entire team that would come out here?
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, we do. Yeah, so, depending on the package and what a company is looking for, how involved, we are typically on site once or twice during the contract and we do do smaller engagements, like if somebody just wants an HR system. A lot of people are switching from 1099 to W2 and they want us to do that smaller piece. That takes about two months and we can do that over Zoom. But if you're saying like we really want to double our revenue, like being on site, meeting the team, understanding the operation, yeah, we would be out there once or twice or twice, okay, and how long would you come here for?
Ty Cobb Backer:typically it's three days okay and that's enough time for you to collect the information that you need to take back or building things out yeah.
Jessica Stahl:So, like, one of the things we do is rewriting job descriptions. So I interview everybody in the entire company, like, yeah, everything's custom. Like we don't just say, all right, go to AI and create a job description. I'm interviewing people and a lot of times that's where we start, because what the owner thinks that someone is doing and what the employee thinks they're supposed to do is not the same thing. So we do that and then also run employee engagement surveys.
Jessica Stahl:So as a psychologist that's something I did for big Fortune 100 companies is running a survey and asking 40 questions of are you happy with the communication from your manager, are you happy with the training? Like, because I asked the owner all these things and they're like, oh yeah, everything's going good. We have an engaged workforce and I run the data and it's like, actually, 70 percent of your workforce say they don't plan on being here after the first year. So really using that to because you can say, oh, we have a good culture, a bad culture, but you don't know until we get the data. So I'm running it, interviewing every employee, I'm asking these questions and then making suggestions based on that and then at the end we're going to run the data again to see if there's actual improvement.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, Wow, that's, that's, that's amazing. It sounds like a lot of work, Cause I know for us it's not easy, especially if we, if we're doing it ourselves, and I know for myself a lot of times as the owner, you know, I do think at times we do have, you know, a good culture, and at other times I'm like, oh my God, things are falling apart. You know, and you know I think it's humbling, especially when you bring new people in or third party. Because I've had consultants.
Ty Cobb Backer:I have a business coach and you know, I think the biggest thing if somebody would hire, you know, a third party like you to come in and assess the company, I think the the the willingness to be open and vulnerable and let someone, to actually let someone come in and actually dissect, like what's happening, is probably for me as a business owner, would be the biggest, one of the biggest challenges. So I guess my question for you is is what do you think? What do you think one of the biggest challenges are that that an entrepreneur would face a period you know what I mean when you go into their organization like what's what's usually the biggest piece that's either missing or the the biggest challenge that they have.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, so, um, what I see a lot of is like the fear of losing control. Like that is, um, like one of the main things we have to work through is is the fear of losing control and you cannot scale doing everything yourself. So, really understanding why can't we give up control? And a lot of times it's like, oh, we don't have the right people in place, and that may be the case, or there's not a repeatable process in place for your people to follow, so of course, you can't trust them, because what are you trusting? There's no repeatable process, there's nothing tangible in your company, so you do have to do everything yourself up until we make those changes. But even when we have the right people and we have the right processes, I still see owners wanting to creep back in and just like put their hands in everything.
Jessica Stahl:That's how my dad was and it really caught me so many issues and like I remember, even with my dad, like we had to come to Jesus with like five of his leadership team members and we're like hey, like here's the problem, and we gave him like real time feedback of like this is what's going good, this is what we need from you, and having like we call leadership alignment conversations. I do that. I've probably done 10 of those this year with different contractors. Yeah, of getting everyone in a room of what's going good, what's not going good, what do you like about this person and what do you, what's their challenges, and really having having that on paper is super powerful. But that all goes back to answer the question it's a loss of control. And how do we, how do we let go control so that we can grow effectively?
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, I mean I, I can totally relate to that story. I mean because I've I've gone through it myself, you know where. You know I wanted to control everything and I'm still a bit of a control freak. I think that's just part of my personality and the drive that I have today. But I think for me and I've told this story a hundred times- so, my mom had moved in with us.
Ty Cobb Backer:I think, man, I'm starting to lose track of time here. So February 12th this February, I think, it will be 13 years since she's passed away so she lived with us for four years and she was our second bout with cancer and stuff. And we were out to dinner one night. I was taking her out and I mean I was just beating the crap out of myself I could not excel at any facet of my life, personally or professionally and and uh, everything, everything came through this. Everything, every lead, every appointment, every inspection, every, everything, everything came through my phone. And so I carved out some time and took her and Jan and my wife out to dinner and the phone was ringing. It's probably about 7 30 at night.
Ty Cobb Backer:We were at Longhorn up in Mechanicsburg, pennsylvania, and I never hit the red button ever, because I thought this is how I feed my family, it's how I feed everybody else, like I have to take this call. So, so I didn't. I red buttoned it and she must've just saw like the look of stress, defeat, fear, overwhelmed Right. And she looked at me and she said something pretty profound, but not not anything unusual or not anything that we've never heard. But, but in this instance it hit differently. And the first thing she said to me was she said tyrus. She said life is too short. Now, mind you, this is coming from a woman who's dying of cancer right getting radiation chemo the whole nine yards, and we have no idea how long she'll be on this earth with us. And then the second thing she said to me was is that you need help, that something changed in me immediately. Like I've heard that before. I've heard that my whole entire life, especially throughout my career. You need help, we don't know how you do all this, and blah, blah, blah.
Ty Cobb Backer:And so, from that day on, I went on a mission, like I knew I needed to surround myself with, with good people. But this, so this was the crazy thing I had already did that. I already had really good people, that that that worked with me. Right, actually, at that time probably for me, because I didn't understand the concept of working with and having co-leaders and having co-members of the team it was more so they were waiting outside my door, my office door, waiting for me to tell them what to do, rather than thinking for themselves and and and taking on, you know, the office door, waiting for me to tell them what to do, rather than thinking for themselves and and and taking on, you know, the, the, the day-to-day task and allowing them to make mistakes and and and empowering them Like I didn't empower anybody. We had a what I thought was still good culture, but it was just the wrong culture that I really needed in my career and in my life my personal life as well. So, instead of me training them on like what to think, like I needed to train them how to think on their own right, like cause they were just waiting for me to tell them, like direct them on every single thing that they did. And it's like the moment I started to empower people and allow them to make decisions and do their job and take their input and get their feedback and allow them enough room to make mistakes because that's where the learning really begins for me, anyhow and having enough grace and humility to allow them to make the mistakes. Hopefully, it's not a costly mistake.
Ty Cobb Backer:That's when I started to let go is when we really started to grow, because I was screaming from the rooftops grow, grow, grow, go, go, go. Meanwhile, I had three fingers pointing back at grow, because I was screaming from the rooftops grow, grow, grow, go, go, go. Meanwhile I had three fingers pointing back at me and I was the bottleneck of the business, right, like I was ordering all the materials. I was I mean everything, selling jobs, everything running the service department. I mean everything, ordering all the materials, like everything. And once I started to delegate some of these tasks out to other people, like the business started to flourish. And I come to find out all these things that I was like really mediocre at, like these 15 jobs that I was doing actually created like 12 full time jobs for other people. And then to come to find out like they were so much better at it than I was, even when I was at my 100 percent, I thought, you know, I just nobody could do this better than me, right? And then to come to find out like they're doing it way better than me, more efficient, and this is the only thing they really have to think about and worry about. So they're going to they, they were excelling really well at that.
Ty Cobb Backer:And the moment I started to empower people was the minute that, like, we started to go like our revenue numbers, numbers, just auto, magically, and we started to to attract and retain top talented people. Um and like the entire organization had the landscape of it just just changed almost overnight. And, trust me, there was some things I I call myself, I called myself a little bit of an Indian giver where, like, I would give it to you but then I'd either critique the shit out of it or would take it back, like, get out of the way. I can do it better, I can do it faster. Once I actually got through all of that noise and got out of the way and allowed the people around me the smarter people they were actually they're all smarter than me especially in many facets of the business that's when we could bring people in. That's when, you know, we were able to offer many different opportunities for people and that was the biggest thing. That's my biggest thing.
Ty Cobb Backer:Today is like, every little business idea I have today usually creates better or bigger opportunity for those that are already here, and I think that's why a lot of people stay here, because it's like, yes, you might be doing this for three months, but then you're so good at your job You've actually created a position that we didn't even know existed.
Ty Cobb Backer:Right, you know what I mean, so I get, I understand what you were saying by like letting go, like getting the owner out of the way, and hearing that not just did I hear that from my mom, but there was other things that other people said to me. Like you know, like you know you're holding the company back because you just can't make a decision, or you know we're waiting for you to get back from someplace, so we know what we're going to do next. And like I had to hear the hard truths that like I was the one actually holding back the business, holding back people from growth within the company so they can move up to corporate labor or they can make a better salary or they could take care of their families better. Like once I discovered that like I'm holding everybody back, including myself and my family and those that work for me. I think that's when the real light bulb head has gone off for me. So I can I can relate to the uncomfortability of when you come into somebody's business and just turn it upside down.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, I mean, I've experienced that in my own business, like now having two full-time employees and two people, I kind of sub-work out to like I've had to let go. We've doubled our business every year since I started. I've had to let go, like let some of my duties go to my team and I'm just like sick to my stomach, like how is this going to happen? And and one of my employees like she did so great, like just really stepped in. She watched me twice like work with clients, and then just even improved our process better than I feel like we're better consultants now that I've let one of my employees do some of the consulting. And at first she's questioning you know, why are we doing things like this? And I'm like I wrote the process, it's my process, like I'm so proud of this process.
Jessica Stahl:And then we went back through and looked at the SOP. I'm like, dang, this is kind of inefficient, like this isn't a great client experience, how we're doing this. I'm like, dang, this is kind of inefficient, like this isn't a great client experience, how we're doing this. And I'm like, okay, well, at first it was hard to get that feedback from my employees, like questioning me, like this is my business, but after I saw, like, just how much better our clients were receiving some of the feedback we're giving and and even how payments were collected, that we've changed how we're doing that. And that was all because my employees gave me suggestions and and I listened to them. So, yeah, like I, I definitely understand like that scaling is tough and letting go of things is tough and it really is.
Ty Cobb Backer:It really is and you know what's what's cool, okay, so culture, true genuine culture, is when you're actually learning more from your team than they are learning from you, you know, and and having an atmosphere. Yes, it stings when, when, when people are giving you feedback, especially those that you work with. It stings at first, but I think once you get over that and you start showing true vulnerability around your team and they feel comfortable enough to start questioning things, not necessarily giving you, you know, criticizing what you're doing, but maybe some constructive criticism sometimes can be painful, but more in an atmosphere of love, from love, of like, you know, because they want the company to do better, they want to do better and they want to serve your, your clients, much better too. So I, I, I love the vulnerability that that you shared with us, because that right there, in itself, that's where growth happens, not just for you but most importantly, probably for us as as the business owners. Right, that that piece of growth right, like admitting okay, yeah, right, it is very inefficient, Like how would you do it? Right, where they feel open and honest enough to share what they're actually thinking, right, and being in that comfortable atmosphere like that to be able to do something to, to, to, to say something to you, like that is where true growth happens, for you personally and for the business itself.
Ty Cobb Backer:So now you can, you can actually do 80 clients a year now, like you couldn't do that by yourself, right, there's no, maybe you could, maybe you couldn't, I don't know, but it sounds like a lot of people that that you've helped and served and and a lot of times, what we have to do is we have to learn how to delegate and let go of things and I think stating and again, that was the hardest part for me and it's how I know for a fact that's probably one of the hardest things for any manager, any CEO, any entrepreneurs, like actually letting go of their baby, like I built this. Nobody else can do this better than me. But once you start putting down that guard and allow people to come in and see how you do things, now you can have twice the impact. Now, not just me, but but. But now you are. So now we're able to do 160 clients next year.
Ty Cobb Backer:But but more importantly is it? It puts us in a position where now, instead of working on in the business and I'm sure you've you try to explain this a lot to your clients is like we need to put you in a position where you can actually like work on the business, and not necessarily in the business, because at the end of the day, we're the visionary, we're the ones that laid in beds like, hey, I want to start a roofing business someday, right. So, like my job today is is to like empower people, come up with a mission, the vision, the goal, like what's our goal going to be next year? Right, like I, if anything, I kind of just build out the framework or paint the framework. Everybody else builds it out, and then I kind of come back let them build 80% of it and then the last 20% piece I give my feedback of like no, that is so great. But I have to be open, honest and vulnerable at that time and not let my ego get in the way of saying that is amazing, I don't know how you did it, but that is awesome. I wouldn't change a thing.
Ty Cobb Backer:And some of the most powerful words that I've ever used within my organization it's two words. I learned it from Craig Rochelle is that when I say when someone comes in and they ask me a question about something. And the minute I say to them you decide, I've just empowered just those two words, those two simple words, right, just letting all ego aside, not caring what the outcome is. Of course we're crossing our fingers that it would be a good outcome. But once you can say you decide to somebody, you've just empowered them. They now have ownership in that decision or whatever that project or question or answer that they were seeking. Once they leave your office, they go out of there thinking to themselves hey, they trust me, and isn't that what we're all? We're looking for love, we're looking for trust, we're looking for that safety and that security and and that's our job is to provide that. For that said, co-worker.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, and I think about, like the main reasons why someone is would come to a job, and the first reason is to be developed. That's the number one reason why somebody chooses a particular position. It's not pay, it's not benefits, it's development. That is the number one reason why someone chooses a job. Is that. And the second is a sense of purpose. So those are the top two. So that makes perfect sense of like why you've been able to like retain your team is developing them, promoting them, having like career paths for them.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, and I noticed like sometimes my clients were like well, we don't want to like share all the information with them, because then they're going to go and they're going to start their own roofing company. Like I hear that one a lot of like let's not empower them too much because they're going to go, or let's not train them because then they're going to know everything and then go start their own roofing company. And it's like I'm like okay, so what if we train them and they leave? And then the other question is, what if we don't train them and they stay? So like and I get that, it's like it's a real fear, because I one of my first employees that I had working for me. I opened up about the business, about teaching or everything consulting, and went and started another consulting firm for roovers. So that happened.
Jessica Stahl:And so then I get the next employee. I'm like oh kind of like, you know, holding back, I don't really want to like share too much and then she ended up leaving for another position. And then I get the third person that I've had in this role and I'm just like you know this isn't about what she can do for the company. Like I feel like called to be a business owner. I have the opportunity to invest in someone. I have the opportunity to change someone's life by paying them an excellent salary for what they're worth. I have the ability to. You know they spend most of their waking hours with me at my company. Like that is the majority of their waking hours, and it's a responsibility and an honor to be able to do like be in that role of manager for sure.
Ty Cobb Backer:Of course it is and it's, and it should be a fear. That's a healthy fear. But I love how you said, like if we don't train them and they stay. That's that's. That's that's the truth, right, and this is the deal. We've been doing this a long time. I've had one, I think maybe twice. We've had people come in and they started their own business. One's no longer around, one seems to be doing okay, but this is the deal.
Ty Cobb Backer:Only 1% of us right or can be at the level that we perform right, do what it is that we do and then remain relevant, right To remain relevant and sustainable right. So 80% of us go out of business in the first four years. 90% of all businesses go out of business in the first 10 years. So the way that I look at it is is that if you come to work for us and if you would leave here, I know you're leaving a better person and unfortunately, that's the part about legacy that stings, that you'll probably never get the credit over. But really, at the end of the day, isn't it the impact that we're the imprint, the impression, the impact that we're trying to have on those that are around us, if we are a true, authentic leader.
Ty Cobb Backer:Unfortunately, some good people come and go Right and when they go, all we can do is is know in our hearts that we did everything that we could possibly do for that person and as they left here, they left a different person is kind of how I've been able to accept that. That's great. If they leave here, I hope they make a hundred million dollars and can impact another hundred million people, because now there's two of us doing it yeah, and that's something that I've really thought about like this year as well.
Jessica Stahl:like, um, when it's like, yeah, just been in my own life just having, you know, personal struggles with my house flooding, and like I'm like I don't know if I can like sustain running a business and like dealing with this stress, and then it just helps so much to come back and take the focus off of me because it's like OK, let's say, like Ignite no longer existed in a year, like what is the legacy I want to leave with that? And it's to help as many people as possible and to empower my employees. Empower my employees and like and so I've really just focused really on that of like it's taking my own ego out of things and like just trusting that everything in my life has worked out exactly as it's supposed to. Up to this point, everything in my business has worked out as exactly as it's supposed to and it's going to continue to do that. So me like making up these stories and like worrying about like the future of like how I'm going to like be relevant next year with all the new consultants coming in and like all of the things.
Jessica Stahl:What did my employees leave? It's just like you know, what kind of impact can I make now? What can I do today, like how can I stay present for my team today? So that's been like really like the last couple of months ever since the flood happened. What I've been trying to go back to is that kind of mindset there.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, and how do you deal with something like that? Like, what do you tell yourself? Do you give yourself self-acclimationur, what is it? What is the word of? And standing, do you stand in front of the mirror and give yourself um self? What is that? Act, act, what's the word? I'm looking for affliction, yeah, like, what do you do? Do you pray? I mean, don't be afraid to say that. You get on your knees and you pray and you ask god to just give you the strength and wisdom to move forward. I mean it. It could be that simple, but I feel like you being a doctor right you got your PhD, dr Jessica, by the way Like, what do you do? What is a professional do?
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing when I walked into my house and I saw that it was destroyed, it's just like this overwhelming feeling, like oh my God, and like the first thing I did was like reach out to people and just said I need you to pray for me, Like I need you to like send me positive thoughts and energy. I need support right now. So I like ask for a lot of support and like people came through with like donations, with like um, like coming to help me clean up the yard, and like contractors coming over and so just really asking for what I needed. And I've always been the person that I want to be more of like giving to people and I don't want to like put my shit out there and look like a mess, but I was like all right, I'm a mess and I'm just going to let everybody know that I'm a mess right now and like allow people to support me. So that was like the first thing. And then I do have a daily meditation practice. I do transcendental meditation and I've been doing that since July and so I do that every morning. It's like a 20 minute meditation. I do I do pray.
Jessica Stahl:I've gotten really close to God, I would say even closer. Like the past, like three weeks, and just like playing the tape all the way through, Like what if I did lose the business? What if, like you know, somebody I was dating left me? Like what if? Like going through to the like the worst case scenarios and like knowing that I'm going to be okay and knowing that it's all going to be okay. And then like trying to help other people too, and I think, like being an AA for 10 years and sober 10 years like sponsoring people, that this lady that was homeless I was like well, we can both be homeless together. Like like she lost everything. And so it just like taking the focus off myself and just like regulating my nervous system too, and just like telling myself like you don't have to be okay today, you can just cry.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, yeah, telling myself, like you don't have to be okay today, you can just cry, yeah, yeah. Acceptance is the key to all of my problems today, you know, and and it's not easy to fathom, especially when something is devastating is that losing your home, especially? You just bought it, like a few months earlier, before the storm came through and ruined everything, all your prized possessions of what you thought was so important. But I think, unfortunately for a knucklehead like me, I have to go through something like that to either get closer to my spirituality or realize how good I really have it, and and to discover. Ed Milet says, you know, nothing happens to us. It happens for us, and I've gotten in the practice of saying that to myself.
Ty Cobb Backer:When things happen for me, right, like why is this happening for me right now, especially in business? Like that's how SOPs and KPIs get born, right? Something bad happens, something falls through the cracks, there's a gap over here. Oh, I guess we need another SOP, right, you know? So what? What personal SOPs have I put in? Our safety nets is one I definitely, you know, have have leaned on my higher power too, about any crazy thing, and I love how you mentioned too about, like you know, giving away what has been so freely given to me, especially those that may may be a little less fortunate than I, am Right. So when I'm helping other people that may be so less unfortunate to me, it removes me from me first and foremost. But then I slowly start to discover too, like right, when I thought that I had it so bad. And I'm looking at this person that I'm helping right now and realize that they have it way better, worse, way worse than I have it now, even though I might be homeless but at least I have a mom and dad or home or someone's going to take me in. I got insurance Ooh, poor me, I actually can afford homeowner's insurance on my house. Oh, poor me, I was able to afford a house. Or, poor me, I have a decent credit score so I can actually go buy another house. You know, because I fall into that poor me sometimes too. I mean, I think we all do.
Ty Cobb Backer:But I guess I really wanted to hear, like you know, cause I meditate too. There's a couple of books, affirmation books that I read in the morning, every morning, before I start my day. You know, it's kind of me putting my on my armor to go out and kind of like you know, arm myself to go out and just deal with the day-to-day. You know stresses the day-to-day. But I think a lot of it has to do with my mindset. Like if I'm not in a good spiritual spot, everything sucks. But if I'm not working on me and continuously trying to strengthen my spirituality, then I'll go into a headspace of just negativity. And when I start to obsess over negative thoughts, a lot of negativity creeps into my life. But if I'm continuously having positive thoughts and trying to look at the bright side of things, most likely more positive things tend to happen in my life, even when bad things are going on.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, yeah. What affirmation book, what's it called?
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, so I read, I read daily reflections every. I've read it for over over 15 years. I've read the daily reflections book and then, about a year ago, I started to read the daily dad by Ryan holiday.
Jessica Stahl:Okay, I haven't read that, but that's cool. Yeah, I used to read the Daily Reflections a lot and really liked them. Like one of the things I did in July was write out all the things I was insecure about and then I wrote the opposite of those I was insecure about and then I wrote the opposite of those. And so I have a list of like all of my affirmations and like I was doing those a lot and that I feel like that helped a lot.
Jessica Stahl:And, um, I haven't done them lately, but I think I should do them today, cause it really does like change the way it like primes your brain. Like I'm thinking that I'm worthy, I'm going to look for other information in the world that reflects my worthiness and if I think I'm unworthy, I'm going to be very sensitive to people. Like a lot of times there's like it's very neutral in like the stimulus in the world and then I put that perceived value on it. So it's yeah, so I think I need to go back and do those formations for sure, and I put that perceived value on it.
Jessica Stahl:So it's yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:So I think I need to go back and do those formations. For sure it's a. It's a. It's a journey we're on. You know there's no, there's no finish line, there's no end date to this. You know it's.
Ty Cobb Backer:It's continuously working on myself to improve the quality of my mental state, mostly in my health, physical health, right. So I have. There's a lot of things that I have to do. I have to eat well, I have to get rest, I have to not beat myself up, not to take myself so serious in journaling Like you were talking about.
Ty Cobb Backer:Like writing things down, like getting those crazy thoughts out of my head and writing them down has really helped me, especially with confrontation with other people, right, because I'll have conversations in my head that I think that I'm going to have with this person and then their rebuttal to my response and all these things, and that when it comes to writing things down and getting the craziness out of my head one, I can see how crazy my thoughts are, especially in certain circumstances of like confrontation or a conversation that I think I need to have with somebody. One, it helps me get all of the mean, nasty things that I want to say to this person out of my head. So then, when I go to have that conversation with somebody. One, I've already gotten that hostility out of me and two, I'm also writing a list of things that I do need to review with this person, because I don't want to walk away from that conversation thinking to myself damn it, I should have, I forgot, I forgot to bring this up Right.
Ty Cobb Backer:So writing it down, getting all that head trash out, writing positive affirmation things about yourself is also good too, and then also getting out some of those negative things so you can actually see it on a piece of paper and be like that's just crazy, you know, that's just crazy talk and that's you know. And that's where I think where we need to find that person or persons that we can also bounce things or ideas and crazy thoughts off off of, and trust in that person to know that they're just as crazy as I am. So when I do say something crazy to them, we can laugh at each other. They can laugh with me and not at me.
Jessica Stahl:I guess is what I'm trying to say, but yeah, with me and not at me, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. But, yeah, yeah, yeah, safe people and like, like for me, like finding people like I have my best friends are also in recovery, so like it's just like an understood language of communication, which has been really nice. But I'm, like I'm super close with my parents. Like I feel like they're crazy and, um, we have the same crazy and they're also both in recovery and working on themselves. And then, um, yeah, even like the people that my employees, like sometimes I'll I'll tell them like what's going on with me, and it gives them permission to open up. And I feel like it just like, yeah, like I've set the tone, even as a leader, that, like you can bring your whole self to work, like we're not going to sit here and dwell on our problems, but if there's something that you need support on, like, let's talk about it. Like everything's on the table.
Ty Cobb Backer:No, and that's creating that safe work environment. You know, and that's really what it's about, because that's what we're looking for. We're looking for love, we're looking for that safety and security. You know, and I want this to be. You know, just like you do, I want this to be a safe place for someone that can come to. They know like this is their safe spot, no matter how horrible their home life might be. Their work life shouldn't be a miserable place where they're coming to clock in and clock out. I'm going to go home. I'm going to get my eight hours in. I'm going to go home.
Ty Cobb Backer:Deal with some more bullshit. You know, it's like let's just create a really cool, high performing accountability, you know, and and the word accountability might sound in some people's eyes like a negative, but it really what it means. And the word accountability might sound in some people's eyes like a negative, but it really what it means. It means success, right, and just you know, work together cohesively as a team of of growth, right, like it starts at home, really, sometimes it does, but it starts. It starts in here, right Personal development, and then that bleeds into every other facet of your life, into every other facet of your life. So it's.
Ty Cobb Backer:It's what I'm doing behind closed doors, really, you know, when I'm taking care of myself, that that helps me deal with things that might come up, and so I can be present to listen to somebody else's stuff. Because I'm taking care of myself and I'm not playing the martyr, right? And and that I am here, I've been given a second chance. And what am I going to do with that second chance, right? Am I going to? Am I going to take take it for granted, or am I going to take advantage of that second chance that I've been given and not try to figure out why, other than the fact that I'm here to impact other people's lives around me, and that's why I was chosen to be here today?
Jessica Stahl:mm-hmm. Yeah, I feel the same way of like, like you know, definitely like the second chance, like in when I was drinking, like all the drinking and driving that I did and just like really just put myself and others at such risk and should have died multiple times with just like all these risky situations. And it's like after being, and it's like after being sober. It's like I want to be able to like make an impact and um work with other business owners as well. It's like working with business owners who then can go make the impact with their employees that then can go home and make the impact on their families. It's like it's pretty cool to like. I'm definitely living out my dream job, for sure, in my dream life. And you know, I didn't wake up and be like, oh, I'm gonna be a consultant for roofers. I got in like you know, six years old, like, oh my gosh I wanted to be barney, actually I wanted to be a dinosaur, but but like after that yeah.
Jessica Stahl:So it's pretty cool to to to be able to be in this spot and like, even when stress happens or I'm dealing with crazy roofers, or because there's always some type of drama in a roofing company, it's like just really grateful that that I get to to do what I'm doing.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, and, and it's easy to lose that gratitude, you know, and gratitude is, is an action word, right, like we have to show our gratitude, you know it's a it's, it's a, it's a verb for me, like I have to give it away if I want to keep this thing, you know, and I have to remain positive and grateful. You know, like you said earlier, like this is your dream job. You didn't know it was your dream job and at least for me, like when I was sitting on that barstool, my pipe dreams can't fathom how great my life is, even no matter what, what is horrible that might happen, right, still today. I mean, my life is beyond my wildest dreams, right, like I didn't grow up thinking to myself I'm going to be a roofer someday, even though I've done it my entire life. But I had, I had other dreams and aspirations and opportunities that I blew and thought maybe that, you know, my life would be different. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't do it over again, I wouldn't. There wouldn't, there would be maybe a couple little tweaks, um, but as far as I'm concerned, you know, I've heard people say before like I wish I would knew then what I know now. Well, now is then I do know what I knew then, because that's today, right. And so what am I going to do with today? Right, I'm going to try to remain as positive as I possibly can, no matter what comes down the pipe. You know what I mean. I'm going to learn something from it, maybe an SOP, maybe a personal core value I need to develop. Maybe it's another non-negotiable that I need to come up with, Like why, why have I lowered my standard? Or you know things that you know.
Ty Cobb Backer:If I look at it like, okay, what, what could I have done differently? Or how have I played a part in this? How have I played a role in this? Why have I put myself in this situation again? Right, if I play that tape back, it all comes back to me. It's nobody else's fault how I feel. It's nobody else's fault that my life is the way that it is today, because it comes back to me along with the strength and courage that my higher power has given me today to continue to put one foot in front of the other, to keep just grinding through and have resiliency. And that's the biggest thing. I think a lot of people just don't have that resiliency to bounce back, you know and look at the bright side of things, like, yes, bad things are going to happen, but how am I going to deal with it? That's really what it comes down to at the end of the day, and how I deal with it it really is contingent upon my spiritual condition today.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, that's how I feel. It's like house, no house client didn't pay this month, or they did. It's like things happen like boyfriend, no boyfriend, like it's like how do you want to show up and like I that's, I really like that.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, well cool we're. We're here in our hour mark already. I just realized where we've been jibber jabbering for an hour and almost two minutes. Here Is there before we get off here. Is there something that you would just like to leave our listeners with, whether it's professional or personal? Is there a little nugget that you just want to leave us with?
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, I mean, I think like going into 2025, just understanding that your people are your only unique resource that you have and so really being intentional next year of like what you want your team to look like, how you're going to pour into them, what type of culture that you want to build, and really writing that out. So I think that is what I would recommend for for the new year is is really being intentional as far as your people go.
Ty Cobb Backer:Fantastic, fantastic. Yeah, that's good. So we still have time. You know, it's not January 1st yet, even if it takes the first or second or third week or all of January for you to sit down, you know, and come up with, like, what you want your team to look like. But that's the thing is is once you raise that standard, and for me, we have to lead by example. So, just because I'm going outside my office door here and I'm going to bark what the new standard is, I have to follow up with that, but I also have to lead by example.
Ty Cobb Backer:So I love what you just said like, jot it down, figure it out, get your team members in the same room together and come up with what you want 2025 to look at. And if you have to wait to the first week in January or whatever it is, it doesn't. It's never too late to start over or reboot things or reorganize things or reach out to someone like Jessica for help If, if your organization isn't very organized, you know we have to sometimes just put down our guards and stop edging god out, the acronym for ego. Stop edging god out and let people come in and give you a hand and and let them know you're a mess sometimes you know.
Jessica Stahl:Yeah, yeah, I think. Yeah, like starting with your intentions and then like, even if you don't know what you want for next year, like that's a great place to start too. And like, like with ignite, we can facilitate those conversations, understand, like, like how to get the best roi for the energy you want to put in, help you understand your goals, whether it's to scale, whether it's to sell open a second office, like become more part-time in the business, like there's so many options. And so really like having experts like Ignite being able to facilitate those conversations, yeah, I would. I think that that's a great place to start in January.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, good stuff, good stuff. Jessica, thank you for coming on the show and and and, uh, you know, sharing your experience, strength and hope with us. Uh, I love what you are doing over there. Keep doing it, don't give up, quit. Keep fighting the good fight and keep changing our industry, as you and your family have done for many years. And, uh, we all appreciate what you do over here at Beyond the Tool Belt. And also, thank you everybody for tuning in. If you are just now checking in, you can catch us on Spotify, apple, Google and or Facebook at any given time and until next week, take care of yourselves. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year's, everybody. Have a great day.
