Behind the Toolbelt
Behind the ToolBelt is a live, raw, and uncut podcast that brings real, unfiltered conversations about business, leadership, and the entrepreneurial mindset. Hosted by Ty Cobb Backer, CEO of TC Backer Construction, this live show features industry leaders, innovators, and experts sharing their experiences, strategies, and insights. From building successful companies to overcoming challenges, each episode offers valuable perspectives for entrepreneurs and business owners and leaders looking to grow, and make an impact.
Behind the Toolbelt
Behind Every Business: The Untold Stories of Entrepreneurship
Leadership isn't just about steering a business toward profits, but creating ripples that extend beyond your immediate sphere of influence. Ty and Chris Markey explore how what they call "the ripple effect" can transform businesses, relationships, and communities.
• The ripple effect in business touches more lives than we realize - from vendors to employees to clients
• True leadership is actually "servantship" - putting others' needs before your own even during challenging periods
• Leading effectively requires different approaches as your business matures and evolves
• Giving clear descriptions and context helps team members understand expectations better
• Empowering team members means involving them in decisions and valuing their input
• Healthy controversy and accountability are vital for team growth
• Leadership involves balance - being empathetic while maintaining standards
• Being intentional with connections creates deeper relationships and understanding
• Reaching out with simple messages can have profound impact on people going through challenges
Join us next week for a special road episode as Ty and Vick travel to their Greenville location!
At Unemployable the Podcast, we aim to inspire and Amplify Disabled Entrepreneurs!
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We are live. Welcome back everybody to episode 279. I'm your host, tyco Backer. Thank you for joining us on this Wednesday edition of Behind the Tool Belt. We will be right back after our intros from our sponsors, tc Backer. Tc Backer. Loop inside and windows gutters solar. For sure, loop inside and windows gutters solar.
Speaker 2:TC Backer. Tc Backer, welcome to Behind the Tool Belt, where the stories are bold, the conversations are real and the insights come to you live, raw and uncut. Every week, host Ty Cobb-Backer sits down to bring you the stories, the struggles, the lessons learned and the wins. No filters, no scripts, just the truth. Please welcome your host of Behind the Tool Belt, ty Cobb-Backer.
Ty Cobb Backer:And we are back. Welcome back everybody to behind the tool belt. Today marks a kind of a milestone. I guess it's episode two. 279, it's kind of a square number, it's not a nice round number. Yeah, like 280. Actually.
Ty Cobb Backer:Next week we'll be on the road, vick and myself we'll be on the road, vick and myself will be on the road. We'll be traveling to greenville, to our other location. We're going to knock out a couple, a couple things that uh, we need to address. Um, but next week's show will be a solo show. It'll be, uh, us on the road, which should be pretty wild, and then a week after that, david bruno will be in the studio with us and I, I like I think you know my, some of my favorite, you know episodes are definitely with with you.
Ty Cobb Backer:Erico and David Bruno, like you guys are like the original OGs of of behind a tool belt and, uh, or some of the most memorable, you know, or Christmas episodes and stuff like that, where you showed up down at the shop, pretty shot in the ass and I have no idea how the hell you made it home, but you did because you're still with us today and didn't get locked up for anything. No, I'm just kidding. I think my son drove Probably, but I think you also showed up as Santa Claus. Yeah, yeah, so that was a pretty remarkable and rememberable episode. So you know, it's always.
Chris Markey:I thought we were talking about leadership.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, we will, okay, but I, I, I want to, you know, poke fun a little bit here of you. But yeah, this is, you know, the podcast where you know we talk about leadership, personal development, all those good things, things that are happening within our industry. And you know, for the most part, we have people that are on the show that are, you know, entrepreneurs. I don't want to just say industry specific, but in in terms of how you, you know, have affected our business right. So you do touch a lot of people within our industry. You know, and a lot of people might not know, that Now, that was what one cool thing about our golf tournament that we hosted Okay, there was man, I don't remember how many people there was.
Ty Cobb Backer:There was 144 people there. Okay, cause we maxed out the golf course. I don't even think they had to, like, lease golf carts from a local, another local golf course to to bring in to accommodate how many people were there. So I'm just going to spit out, because most golf tournament scrambles are 144 people. So there was 144 people there, half of which didn't even know each other but somehow were connected, right Like there, that ripple effect of whether it was cashflow or influence or or somehow there was some some connection, whether it was my insurance company, you know, or or, like Eric Brewer was there, okay, um, we do a lot of work for him and have for a very long time.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, so imagine that ripple effect, like if we really unpack that for a minute and how many lives that impacts and touch, and they don't even know, like, where that cashflow might come from, or our insurance agent, right, like how that impacts him, because you know what I mean. But anyhow, my point was is the impact that you have on us, right, and that that allows us to impact our local communities, because you're always the one of the first people I reach out to, maybe not always I was going to say sometimes the last person I reach out to, because it's always the last minute, but in theory, I was just going to say.
Chris Markey:You know, usually it's a Tuesday and you need a Wednesday.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, exactly.
Chris Markey:Does that count?
Ty Cobb Backer:it's a Tuesday and you need a Wednesday. Yeah, exactly, does that count? So maybe you are the first person usually that I'm contacting whenever we're we're doing any kind of event. You know all of our events at any of our locations. You know and, and even with behind the tool belt, you've shipped overnighted towels to us and at RoofCon.
Chris Markey:You said a key word there and let's let's just take that into account like we're real big right now into this and you are, uh, your golf tournament community, your world, yeah, people outside that world, the, the ripple effect, um, I think you and I talked about it a couple days ago, but the ripple effect, the ripple effect, how it is in everything that you do, uh, so if, um, dhl doesn't pay a bill to certain people, yeah, early enough, they can't pay their people. That can't pay their people, it goes down the line. If, uh, I go to an event and my insurance person's there and all of a sudden, they know somebody, they're an insurance person for somebody else that might lead to me, that leads to somebody else, that goes down the road. Like, everything is a ripple.
Ty Cobb Backer:Oh yeah.
Chris Markey:Like regardless of negative or positive? Negative, negative or positive. I'm just saying in general the ripple effect in your business, negative or positive. I'm just saying in general the ripple effect in your business. Never did I think about the ripple effect as I was building the business.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:No, within my business, outside of my business, I mean, you think about, like, how you act, or you know how you want to handle a situation, but you, you think about it more, the more mature your business is or the more mature we are, hypothetically. Yeah. I'll use the quotation marks, yeah, but the that ripple effect word, it's a. It's an interesting phrase to start our you know what I mean Like how, how, how it affects your golf tournament affected a lot of people.
Ty Cobb Backer:It did. Yeah, we raised in it all together between the Baltimore because there was two. There was, like a week or two later, stephen Spence, whose idea was to host these things Right. So big shout out to Stephen Spence. And we're also participating in Swing for Recovery this year too. But I think there's going to be a few more, you know, across the country one in Colorado, one in Baltimore, one here, there might even be one in New Jersey. But again, that ripple effect, yes, yeah.
Chris Markey:And that's a that's a good ripple effect. You have bad. Like you said, good and bad, but it the ripple effect is in everything yeah, it really is. To every action there's a reaction, I guess well, true, yeah, that's probably the point you know what I mean you're gonna.
Chris Markey:You're right, you know you, I I always love how you walk through a shop and you're talking to somebody and you say one thing and how, when it comes back out the other side, that ripple goes down and that wave's really big and it turned into a. It turned into like a tidal wave of something that started with. No, that's not how I said it, this is what I said. You know what I mean. So that's the bad side of yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:The grapevine effect is what I've heard, that yeah, the phrase before yeah they pass it along.
Chris Markey:But that's the ripple right. People turns into, it turns into a yeah, yeah, no doubt I went off on a tangent.
Ty Cobb Backer:No, no, no. I mean, it's definitely a great topic that we could, you know, and I think that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to have impact.
Chris Markey:Right.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know what I mean and this is the crazy thing about impact is that I don't think we know, and I don't think you knew until, maybe, that I just mentioned the, the, the power of that impact, and how many lives you've actually been able to touch. Yes, throughout the country, as vick and I have traveled to, I mean everywhere but the west coast. I mean we were, you know, uh, colorado, utah, uh, texas, dozens of time. Florida, dozens of times Florida, dozens of times. Greenville, south Carolina, hilton Head, south Carolina, like just all over the country, your merchandise, your swag, your product has been touched by way more people than you can even imagine. You know what I mean. And we get there's one of your towels that you made us.
Ty Cobb Backer:Where was Woody, not Grand Cayman? We get there's your one of your towels that you made us. Where was woody, not grand cayman? He went there on one of these ship cruises where you stay on it for like a week. It's not a real big, huge one, it's pretty, pretty nice size ship where they dive like five times a day. So he's on like a scuba diving ship where they're it well all week long. He's sending us photos of the towels that you made us one that he's hiding in the head taking a shit with the towel held up, like just all kinds of crazies like hey guys, love you.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know just we use them for anything yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not just as their purpose right um but in the shitter, yeah, you know, and I guess it's going down the drain, vic, yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know, and that's kind of like legacy. You know what I mean. It's like people have come to work here that that, for one reason or another, don't work here anymore. Okay, but we do know that they're. They're different. If they come through and they're here for any amount of time, okay, they leave as a different human being, and I would like to think in a better way. That they leave here, okay, and let's just say they came through and they were here for several years and they go and start their own business. Okay, we'll never get the credit for that, even though we know that when they came here eight, nine, ten years ago, that they had no idea what roofing was or how to even install roof. Let's just just put it that way.
Chris Markey:And but they watched you do it ty, yeah, right they know, right, but we'll never.
Ty Cobb Backer:That's like the catch 22 about legacy we'll never know, but this is what I've. I've come to accept and and and uh, appreciate is that I don't. They don't need to say, if it wasn't for tc backer, right, that I wouldn't be who I am today I am. That is the part of legacy, that there's more of that than there is people saying, oh, praise, right, praise tc backer, because they feed 5,000 children every summer. You know what I mean. More of the impact happens unknown and I guess if you're, if you're traveling this journey, you have to not just accept that but not get hemmed up in the hubbub of like, hey, look at me, we've impacted so many different people. It's just, you know, it takes a certain breed of person to want to suit up and show up and want to take care of it.
Ty Cobb Backer:Because leadership I am so sick and tired of that word Leader leadership it really what it is.
Ty Cobb Backer:It's servantship, absolutely, is what it is, because that's what it's all about, because there are days, weeks and months that go by where I just want to punch everybody in the face, and a few others and a few others, okay, but I get through it, I bounce back.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know perseverance, resiliency, all that stuff, and not get hemmed up in. People aren't peopling right up and people aren't peopling right. You know, and you know they have no idea because I can get hemmed up in that they have no idea what myself and my family have gone through to produce payroll, to sign Christmas bonuses to I mean the list just goes on and on and on, and on, and on, and on and on. Again, I'm not running out there smacking people upside the face like do you have any idea that I've had to put eight mortgages on my? I've never done that, so I won't even use that. Yeah, never refied or anything outside of my rental property. But my point is there's a lot of things that us entrepreneurs have to go through, the shit that we go through, and it's kind of like you know we really don't have to do this.
Chris Markey:Yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know what I mean.
Chris Markey:I don't know why I, as being the person that can get in their car, go to work, yeah, do work Kind of a flexible schedule, yeah, and go home, right. I envy that in a lot of ways because we were for lack of a better term anchor. It's not an anchor, but there's something that's tied to you to the whole time. You're obligated to that and that's that's what you know to to. What's that saying about? To, uh, the person much is given, much is asked, right. So you know, if you're going to put yourself in a position where you're going to, um, uh, work your tail off and be given something, there's going to be a lot also asked of you.
Chris Markey:It's not like you know if it was right, if, if, if it was easy, everybody would do it.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, right, right.
Chris Markey:You know, if it was, if it was easy, you would be able to do it tomorrow. Walk out the door and do it tomorrow. Yeah, and you know you don't there. I like you, there are, there, are the have people out there that you know have gone on to do other things, or don't you know? I don't that, we'll never admit, but that's okay.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, you know, all we can hope for and that's where I was kind of going, that is all we can hope for us is that they go out and have the same amount of impact on other people's lives as we've had on theirs.
Chris Markey:I'm going to use a phrase I use all the time Don't make an impression, make an impact. So you know, in our industry, impressions that's the number of prints we do, or whatever. But I and I started saying that phrase a long time ago. Let's not make an impression, let's make an impact. Okay, and what is the impact? The impact is when you go out and you say I work at to the T, oh yeah, I know that, yeah, they do our swag, they do. You know what I mean. You don't want to be on the other side of that, right, so you, you, just, you just be an upstanding company as best you can. There's going to be wins and badids, and if you win more than you lose, then it's a good thing. But you try to make the impact in the community and you can't impact every organization, but at least you can impact as many as you possibly can to get your hands on.
Ty Cobb Backer:And unfortunately, we're not going to make and keep everybody happy either, and that's something else that we have to accept.
Chris Markey:If everybody was happy.
Ty Cobb Backer:that's utopia something else that we have to accept. But if everybody was happy, that's utopia, right. But also learn from that. You know what? What did we do wrong here? You know, if, if it's, if it's not a good fit, that's, that's one thing. But if you lose a client, or if you lose a team member or a coworker, okay, those for me over the years, right away I want to take it personally, because I am a firm believer that, you know, people don't quit jobs, they quit people. So I kind of get hemmed up in that a little bit when somebody does end up leaving. But I also got to look at the whole thing where it's kind of like they had a better opportunity. It wasn't necessarily, you know, something that we did wrong, right. But when somebody does leave or you end up losing a client, that right there is. There's a big, huge lesson to be learned there. Like, why is this happening for us right now? Right, okay. Or if you have a client that is very difficult to work with and over the years we've had several of them where, like, if we can meet that standard, we should be able to meet everybody's standard, and that has now become the standard and that's what I've said to my team where it's like I know they're very difficult.
Ty Cobb Backer:We we had this project several years ago up in Mechanicsburg and this guy was relentlessly on my ass about safety, about cleanliness, and I mean over the smallest, my new pieces of little fragmented aluminum snippets on the ground. I mean it took him longer to snap a picture and send it to me than it would have been for him to just pick it up and throw it away. What I discovered was on my way there to to to whoop up on him. I'd left my family in Delaware I was on vacation left them there and drove the Hoyt and Mechanicsburg to put the smack down on this dude. I had been so emotionally hungover because I kicked his ass five ways to Tuesday up here.
Ty Cobb Backer:I knew exactly what I was going to say. I knew exactly how the conversation was going to do. I knew exactly what his rebuttal was going to be and what I was going to follow up with. I mean I just metaphorically, like mentally, beat the crap out of this dude Three and a half hours, probably four, up to Mechanicsburg, left my family down there, drove up there, got there.
Ty Cobb Backer:He'd have probably just been able to push me over because I was so emotionally hung over and distraught, like worn out, like beat the crap out of myself. But what I've realized on my way there and I got out of the truck and he was so excited to see me hey, todd, because he's a keyboard warrior, right what I realized was is this guy is just so good at his job he's really good at his job and I didn't like it. I didn't like the fact that he was pointing out my character defects, my flaws, our flaws not necessarily my personal character defects, but our flaws, our character defects as a company. And that's where I discovered and this is going back a good 10, 12 years ago- I remember the day.
Ty Cobb Backer:Do you yeah?
Chris Markey:You talked to me on the drive up.
Ty Cobb Backer:Probably did.
Chris Markey:And I got the whole story about what you were going to do to this guy.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, I already knew where the body was going.
Chris Markey:But I just distinctly remember that day. I remember I remember us talking. It was like a day or two later I was like how did that go? And you're like it didn't go any way, that I said it was going to go.
Ty Cobb Backer:I took away time from my family. That's how that went Right, really, at the end of the day.
Chris Markey:That was it.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:Yeah, but is that guy going to be a big advocate for you? He is.
Ty Cobb Backer:We still work with this guy and that has become the standard. Do we always meet that standard? No, we don't. But we now know what the standard is. If we can keep this guy happy, we are going to shine like a diamond, like there's nobody that we're not going to be able to accommodate.
Chris Markey:If we hold this standard, now you do have notes in the system, hey, by the way, you know this guy's particular. Yeah, hey, don't do this when I passed him off to to vick.
Ty Cobb Backer:I warned vick. When vick passed him off to baker.
Chris Markey:Vick had to warn baker yeah you know, like hey this kind of like we've got everybody about yeah, you probably that's why I? Don't deal with anybody else other than you no, it's because they would come to me to ask if we could get this done. So you just come right to me.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:Right, I'm waiting for the day you say hey, I needed my shirt yesterday, chris, I haven't had that one yet.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, that's coming, that's coming, that's coming. Love my shirt.
Chris Markey:I needed them yesterday. Tuesday, chris, you're late.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, you're holding back Today's Wednesday what's up? You came here empty handed.
Chris Markey:Oh, by the way, I did forget your. Your order was up in my office and I forgot. I'm going to get yelled at. Kelsey's going to yell that.
Ty Cobb Backer:So oh, speaking of Kelsey, um Tabby reached out to me, she wants to.
Chris Markey:Yeah, man, yeah she. You know we think that's the one good thing about our shop. Everybody in the shop understands the value of relationships. You know what I mean. Yeah, you will be more patient sometimes because we understand, because they're patient with us. So you know, that's very.
Ty Cobb Backer:Well, that's what's so special about our relationship, you know what I mean. I think one time I had a moment on you and I'm not even saying we had a moment, it was on me, okay when I and it wasn't even you. It wasn't even you that I was frustrated with, it was everything else.
Chris Markey:Yeah, but you talk about that, but friends do that Right. So I mean that if you can't do that as friends, let's be honest with each other.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:If we can, as servant leadership or whatever, if we can, as leaders, have a moment on some employees, then we're all not in this together Cause there's going to be a day and employee has it on me. Because there's going to be a day, an employee has it on me and I can tell you Kelsey's had several. No doubt my son, mason has had several, but it's going to happen Like I don't, there is no, you don't like. That's just to get like my wife and I argue right, that's my best friend.
Chris Markey:Yeah, right, I mean like people are going to have that. You know, yeah, I don't think that's. I don't think that's unhealthy. As a matter of fact, I think it is healthy. And you know, one of the things we started saying in our shop was you know, when some, when there's something wrong with it, hey, can I get that back from you? And people would get upset. Until I said we use it as a training mechanism to find out where we went wrong, then they want to be a part of it. Then they're like, oh sure, I was like, hey, this, I'm gonna send you a shipping thing. They will just send it back to me. We want to find out in our system where this went wrong and where we could be better at it. All of a sudden, then they want to be a part of it. Everybody's a bitcher. Until they want to be, until they're part of the solution, yeah. And all of a sudden they go away.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:You know what I mean? Yep, Right, and it's okay to ask a customer. Where do you think this would be easier on a customer for future reference? Where do you think this would help us out for customers in the future and be better for them, Right? So I think you know.
Ty Cobb Backer:I think there's a lot of things that we take for granted sometimes that we, even as customers, you know, yeah, isn't that for sure?
Chris Markey:Like even as customers, like we're on that other side every day, but yet I walk into Subway. Damn it, if you put that green pepper on there, I'm going to kill you.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, Come on bro.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, calm down you know what I'm saying. Yeah, no, there is healthy controversy. I mean, there, there really is healthy controversy. We had a situation not that long ago and I'm not going to mention anybody's name, but I I knew that they were at odds and I used to jump right in and try to fix everything, like, no, you guys are going to get along right now. You know what I mean. If not, then I'm going to be mad, like I'm out mad. The situation and I let it go. I was like no, they need to work it out.
Ty Cobb Backer:Actually, there was two situations where, you know it, just, I knew that they needed to work this out, because one, because we, we do hold a high standard, okay, and really, at the end of the day, all they're doing is is holding each other accountable, like and I watched the entire conversation unfold, you know what I mean it was like, well, they're just holding each other accountable. So that's where healthy controversy is just leveling people up. Like you know, there's a, there's a, there's a right way and wrong way to do it too, and there's kind of like the in-between way where you know, hopefully you don't go too overboard and mother F, somebody or whatever, and that happens too Right. But sometimes we need to say stupid stuff too, to knock ourselves back a peg and realize, like where I've done wrong and that has turned into better relationships, where now I'm coming to you more vulnerable.
Chris Markey:Right.
Ty Cobb Backer:And like hey man.
Chris Markey:I love when you're vulnerable. So sorry, well, I know, well, nevermind, but uh, well, listen, you know it happens in our office too, so but uh, well, listen, you know it happens in our office too, so so listen. Kelsey's driven.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:Everybody wants a Kelsey or has a Kelsey and you know sales reps do things wrong at times and sometimes, some days, it's okay, you can tell who she's mad at, but based on based on the fact that what she's not going to put up with that day, right, oh, on the fact that what she's not going to put up with that day, right, oh, you're in the doghouse. You know, it's kind of the running joke, like who she met, but that's her job, right, she's held accountable by me, right, which she doesn't like. You know what I mean? Because she can't bark back. She can bark, yeah, but you can't, you know, yeah, but that's, that's the thing I think you know.
Chris Markey:You, you want that. You want that accountability, of course you want. You want that, you want that accountability, of course you want them to work it out themselves, which is where I am in this stage. Yeah, you know, like I left today and I was like all right, you're going to load the van up, you're taking all these things out. I turned around, walked out. Usually I would have loaded the van back in the day, loaded the van. This is where you're going when you see this person say hi, blah, blah, blah. Now I'm getting to a point where, hey, when you learned the last time you were out, oh, I learned this, that and everything. I'm starting to make them. Hey, write in a book and write notes in there and put that on because you know you start delivering stuff.
Chris Markey:They can just go in the book and be like, oh suzy usually gets it, she's at the counter, yeah, that kind of stuff. So they started doing that themselves yeah, no, that's good well, you, they don't want robots. No, you don't want robots. No, you don't Right.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, no, because we're in the customer service space. You know what I mean. We got to accommodate and you want them to, even though you're not there and your back's turned, you want to make sure that your clients are receiving the same service and value right as if you were there. That's really what it comes down to at the end of the day, and sometimes they're even better right at it.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yes you know, because just because we're other places and when we show up there we may not be as like here's your boxes, you might have a good debt. Yeah, you know what I mean. But as as our co-workers are making deliveries, like they, they that's what they're there to do. They don't have 15 other places. They have to be in their mind psychologically. You know what I mean and that's what I found. Like my team, a lot of my team is a lot better, especially today at at things that I used to do all the time, like load the truck. I should, I'd be the one driving the truck after loading the truck and and making all my rounds and deliveries and all that stuff. Um, you know what I mean. But there I come to find out they're they're better at it because one I might not have the bandwidth, like I should be working on the company, not in the company necessarily so much, because you know, you know and this is where the impact starts Like we've built such a nice impression right the impact.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, the impact, right, like here, I'm impacting you. I gave you a job, right, you, you, you know what I mean To to go out and impact more people's lives and you know, speaking of which, you know the way and when we I think we talked about this earlier on the phone today where you know, like early on, when, when we used to be the one loading the truck, driving the truck and delivering everything, and we, we, we had a small team and you know the way that I led then compared to the way that I lead now. Totally different. Right, it is totally different. You know, and I was talking to you about, like you know, it's one thing to have all of the right people in place, you know, and I've gotten complacent myself where it's kind of like they should know their job but not realizing that people still need lead. But it needs to be different now because it's a different breed of people that are here compared to 16 years ago, the way, different breed of people who work for us today.
Chris Markey:I'm going to, I'm going to stop you right there, cause I had that happen just today. So all along I've been our sales reps, like I've kind of taken that's my gig. I like to sell, so I've kind of taken the sales. Uh, being a sales leader like having sales meetings and talking about ways to do things and be better at it and you know your CRM and staying on top of things and the follow-up and the follow-through. And I had talked to my lead sales rep about a certain thing that we were doing, that I wanted to do, and I started implementing and you know you know, them.
Chris Markey:They, they don't want to implement it. You know what I mean. Or it seems like it's different, but you implement it. And then you I said, once we get to a certain point, you'll be able to see the value in this. So today I showed him the value in this and the next thing, you know, all of a sudden he's all in. You know what I mean, which was great.
Chris Markey:That's a leadership thing. And I just thought about that. Now, that was a leadership. I didn't do it. I was just like, hey, let me show you this. And then it's kind of like showing your kid how to put a chain on his bike. Yeah, right, all of a sudden, then they could do it. That's a leadership thing, and you just didn't know it. Right, putting, helping your kid put his chain on his bike, or hey, this is how you push a lawnmower correctly, or this is what you want to look for when you're mowing or trimming. Same thing happened today. Sometimes you have to go out and show it. Yeah, and show it once, and then they'll come back with the well, what about this? Or hey, I did it this way and did it, and then they'll come back with all these other things that make that process or procedure better.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:And that's what's happened. That's what happened. That's where.
Ty Cobb Backer:I most recently have noticed in one of my shortcomings is that I'm guilty of not fully explaining the goal or the mission. So I've been using this cemetery that's across the parking lot here as an example, like I am so guilty of. I need you to go over to the cemetery, okay, yeah, and I'll leave the room, okay. So they're kind of just like, all right, just do. Doing on the way over there, like you know, when I should have said there's an oak tree over in that cemetery and every time the wind blows it's scraping across these headstones, okay, and it's damaging them. If I would have gave just that much more description, they'd have been like oh okay, grab the chainsaw and ran over there. But why they were over there? They noticed there was two other oak trees that were doing the same thing.
Ty Cobb Backer:And then they would have discovered hey, maybe we should break these leaves up. Hey, now the grass needs mowed. Hey, now the headstones need power. We hope it would go like this, but with a little more description, which would buy us maybe a little more time until we can circle back and walk over them and be like, hey, why don't you now mow the grass?
Ty Cobb Backer:You know what I mean mean trim this up or hey those leads, leave me right yeah, because if they don't have enough initiative, that that's one thing. You know what I mean. But us giving a better description of like why I need you to go over there. This is our goal. Our goal is to clean this place up, fix, get, stop damaging the headstones. Right, and I'm looking out the window and I'm watching this oak tree.
Chris Markey:Yeah, but the next question is the one that you want. So if I tell Vic to go get that, do what you said hey, go over there and clean up that oak tree, okay. If he says, hey, is there anything else? That needs cleaned up over there. That dude right there I'm going.
Chris Markey:Oh, this guy's a little forward thinking Like that sticks with me Like oh, okay, yep, yep, good point, good point. How about you go over there? I'll be over in five minutes, I'll give you a little roundup and you can finish up. You good with that? Yeah, I'm good with that. Okay, cool, I'll be right over. You know what I'm saying. The next question is the one yes, right, and I was.
Chris Markey:Where did I get that from? There was a book I was reading and it was talking about the questions back from an employee and how what they mean to you. You know what I mean. So, or how you take them. Like the catcher catching the ball yeah, he's going to catch a knuckleball, different than he catches a fastball or a curveball. Makes sense, right, yes, and how you receive that. You know what I mean. I'm asking you this, okay, great. So the receiving of that. It's good that they're asking oh, I think you're great. That's great that, like in my mind, I'm going to sell this. You know, you start to think like know whether they're asking the right questions or, by the time you do show up, they already started to rake the leaves after they took the limbs down right, but what if you? What is right?
Ty Cobb Backer:away. I'm thinking they should already know they need to clean the limbs and the leaves up, but some people weren't that forward thinking they will but some people yeah, but some will.
Chris Markey:They'll start to get to know what your expectations are exactly when you do that right like what's the standard here?
Ty Cobb Backer:like we're not just going to come over here, like ty wouldn't accept the fact of us just cutting these limbs off and then leaving for the day okay, I'll use this analogy hey, vick, go wash my truck.
Chris Markey:So he takes your truck thinking ahead. Hey, I'm going to be ahead of this game. These stickers on here, these decals yeah, that's not good. This is a brand new truck, why we have these and he starts taking them off. Is that good?
Ty Cobb Backer:no, you would want them to say yes, hey, what about these stickers?
Chris Markey:yeah, yeah, and you're gonna be like yeah, are they asking the right question? Correct? Yeah, it's the right question. Or he comes back with no decals on and you're like look, I just paid eighty thousand dollars for that truck, including the decals, right?
Ty Cobb Backer:yes, I appreciate your being forthcoming about this, but yeah, I really wanted to take in the thank you for taking the initiative, like I understand where your mind was, but that was pretty dumb but still it's what they're asking.
Chris Markey:Yeah, right, and, and I agree with you, I think there are some things that are pretty self, or at least to me they're self-explanatory, but are they?
Ty Cobb Backer:so see, that's my point, right? I would think that would be very self-explanatory by me just stating go over to the cemetery, right, right. Only because that's I'm more of a forward-thinking person, I'm going to go over, I'm going to check it out, I'm going to you. Obviously he wants me here. There must be something wrong, right, like what's going on. But not everybody's built like us, and that's my point is that I got to give a little more description of what it is that I'm actually looking for. Nobody can read my mind. Nobody's a mind reader. Well, your wife thinks she can she is actually a good she is but I'm supposed to read her mind. Oh yeah, that's.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, that's tough, I've gotten better it's like Braille yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:Did I say that out loud, vic? Everybody heard me? No, but I mean, as we mature, like, like you stated earlier, as we grow up, as the business matures and and as we. But this my point too, was you know how I led, then isn't gonna like, yeah, may have got us here, but where we want to go, you know what I mean, that I have to change.
Ty Cobb Backer:I have, I have to redevelop myself as a leader in today's day and age, whether it's the technology, it's the things I'm studying, the things I'm listening to, the events that I'm attending, you know, in order to get where we want to go, whether I want to sell, whether we want to do X, y, z, amount, dollar, whatever that case might be, because we might have all the right people in all the right people and all the right seats, but if they're not being led correctly or giving enough description of what it is they should be doing, we'll never reach that goal. And then what happens too? This is the other thing too if they're not being led well enough, people get a little too comfortable and they get complacent. Right, and okay is just okay.
Ty Cobb Backer:Right when we're, you know, the enemy of good is great, like we want to continuously be great, but you know what I'm riding on my laurels and I'm sitting back in my chair and and with my feet propped up, you know, and people, people might say well, as long as you have the right leadership in place, that's still not. I've been doing this long enough. It doesn't matter who I put in place. The message will not be the same, unless it's coming from me. The energy, the ceo right and you know what's complacent.
Chris Markey:So so you talk about that's a great word, by the way complacent because you're like, okay, listen man, I'm my business is doing this and it keeps going up a couple. You know a couple percentages every know a couple of percentages every year. So good, whatever, but they get complacent. And then when they get complacent, okay, and you go to ask them to do more because all of a sudden you had an epiphany yeah, right, right, they're not used to that. Oh well, it's all good. Yeah, yeah, well, I was wrong.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:Well then, I don't like this job anymore, because you know what? I mean Like you start going down this. Yeah, you start really going off.
Ty Cobb Backer:Oh yeah.
Chris Markey:Whereas you look my well, my father-in-law who passed away. God love him, don. But he used to say it's okay for people to walk on eggshells. It's okay, like we do, all the time you drive in your car. You're speeding, but you're constantly looking for the cops.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah.
Chris Markey:You know what I mean the kids, your kids. They want to know where the line is. When's the line that goes from dad yelling at me to dad just snatching me up, right, right. But employees want to know, they and they need to know. It's a you know there's when it's time to and when it's not. Yes, and we're walking on eggshells because there might be a change tomorrow. Yes, and that is good, because you know, my wife works for a $700 billion company. For them to turn it's like taking this freight liner and do this and when they have new things going on, there's 4,377 people that have to do the same thing to turn this freight liner, when we should be able to do it like this because we're a smaller company and it shouldn't affect anybody. It should be. What's my role and what do you expect from us by turning this? Yeah, 45 degrees, right, right, but a lot of times we go, oh, you're changing my world.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, like I just you know, and I think on your point is is in my earlier days of leadership, it would have just been we're doing it Right, that's it. I don't just shut up, just do it. This is what we're doing. And I'm not saying I still don't have that attitude at times, because sometimes I don't have the time right, it just needs to happen. Okay.
Ty Cobb Backer:But I think the way that I approach things too, is like we try not to roll things out to the entire company at one time, right.
Ty Cobb Backer:And then recently, most recently, I started to write clarity notes from Ty. There was some, some changes happening upstairs, and so I wrote, instead of me just telling you right and then leaving okay, I thought, well, there'd be more impact if I actually wrote something out and showed you what I want you, your new, your new role, some new task that I want you to pick up, and the impact that it's going to have on the, on the company, and why this is so important. That's a great idea. So I started going through writing notes for Ty and and this is the thing too like there's a couple of people who have been here for for a little while that I also think their roles might not be changing, but need a clarity. Note, whether it's comfortability, whether it's, I just see gaps, like, hey, I feel like you should be. You know this. This is your job, just so you know. Instead of getting their job description from them, it's my job to tell them, and remind them sometimes, what their job is and the importance of that role.
Chris Markey:Like it's okay to do that.
Ty Cobb Backer:You're the bridge between sales and production.
Chris Markey:But it's okay to do that too. Yeah, that's where they get. That's where the it gets lost, in the sense of it's like. I can't believe you're saying that to me. What part of it didn't you understand, like? What part I don't get it, like we're just changing some things. It happens everywhere you go.
Ty Cobb Backer:And they're not always going to get it right away, but after three months it's just now their job.
Chris Markey:Yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:Do you know what I mean? Like it just wears off where it's like this is just the normal every day. I've come in here for a week now and it's just it's habit now.
Chris Markey:We are creatures of habit, yeah, and they fact that they come in, they sit down in a chair, make their coffee the same way and do all of that. God forbid my dad was the worst. God forbid that one car got in his way on his 30-minute drive to work. His day was ruined, and we do have employees like that. You got to take that into account.
Chris Markey:But I think your point, like that message, like going in and changing it, that's an awesome idea, meaning like you're going to say here's some things that are going to change, okay. The other thing, too, is just talking about the change at the beginning. Yeah, okay, reading a book about talking about where you go into a meeting and you have an agenda, but you don't tell them the agenda up front. What you do is you bring up here's a couple of things that I was thinking of and there's only one on the board that really matters to you. At that point you let them talk about all the other stuff and then you know you get to this certain one and you see how, how could that be implemented? They don't know it's going to be implemented, but if we did it how we do it, you let them get down the line and that's the one you really want. And then, when you do that, say okay, that's, I really liked that one we're going to implement that one and now.
Ty Cobb Backer:It's never a good idea until we think it's a good idea as individuals, any individual.
Chris Markey:Right, and you know, it's always the majority in the room too, right? So if there's four people in that room and three of them go, wow, that's pretty good. The other one's like listen, man, I'm kind of caught off on it. But you know, let's walk down this road and see where it goes. Maybe you know that's what you want. Yes, right.
Ty Cobb Backer:And sometimes it's very hard to get. You know, and a lot of these things should be a team effort. You know if they feel like that they're involved in the decision-making. You know it goes no different than me when I work for somebody else or or household change. You know mom and dad. You know if they're like hey, how. You know, like, like my opinion really matters, my influence, I have influence here. You know what I mean. It gives you that, that not yes, sense, sense of belonging, but it gives you that empowerment, right, you feel empowered to. I'm helping.
Chris Markey:Yeah, well, I can, I can tell you, let's talk about that. So there's some and I'm going to use something that happened with my daughter about this empowerment. I thought it was really good Superintendent of the school district asked a bunch of kids to go into this meeting and talk about. You know, they were ninth, 10th and, I believe, 11th graders. Like hey, what do you see? Which I thought was awesome. Like, bring them in, tell us what you see or some things on your mind. What would you change? What would help us? I thought that was great.
Chris Markey:You talk to a parent. Their agenda is different than this kid's agenda, but if you get the right ones in the room, they're going to tell you the right answers, right, so you know. And she said I think my daughter said to the superintendent need to turf the field and she knew it was a challenging. She told me later and she knew it was a challenging question because turfing the fields not everybody likes that. The grandparents get upset because you're spending so much money on it. You know what I mean. It just goes down. But she knew it was going to be a tough question. But she also knew it was going to be a tough question because of what she was going to ask him next.
Chris Markey:The next question, and I thought this was all good, because and he said, listen, it's, it's, you know, whatever it's a million dollars, whatever the number was a million dollars, and right now there's things that are more important than that. And her next question was okay, so it's more important than me getting home at 10 o'clock at night and then having to study because we have to practice seven to nine. And he went on to the next question and I thought it was brilliant. So, like in this meeting with your employees, you bring up these things and they make these challenges. The next question is going to be the hard one. You, as a leader, have to be prepared for it, and I don't think he was prepared that these kids are smarter than you know. We have to be prepared as leaders to know that, oh, I better like I better have my stuff together. Yeah, you know the proverbial. Well, let me get back to you, but let me think about that. Get back Sometimes in today's world.
Chris Markey:Yeah, I don't believe you, because they know we're swarming, that We've done it for 18 years, so they know that we've thought about this. Yeah, there's a reason we're asking these questions Right, asking these questions Right Exactly, you know so. When he, when she, walked into that room, I don't think he felt that he was going to get tough questions it was maybe a Kumbaya and everybody was having a good time, right but she hit him with it, you know. Good for him or her, yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:But I'm saying, is we?
Chris Markey:have as leaders. It showed me that we I have to be ready, you know, whatever it is. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like the first time I got health insurance in the company and I'm standing there and the insurance reps in and they're doing all their talking and they ask a question and the insurance rep went like this and I was like oh, let me get back to you, yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:But, and sometimes there is. I don't know the answer to that question or not, but I will get back to you. Yeah, but, and sometimes there is I don't know the answer to that question or not, but I will get back to you, but we shouldn't we should.
Chris Markey:If we're going to ask them to be prepared, or we're going to ask them, we should be a little bit better prepared. There are going to be some questions. Yeah, an insurance question. Do you think I'm really going to know it? I won't. No, yeah, no, I won't. The only thing I know is I get a call every year. Hey, it went up. Yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:Isn't that the truth?
Chris Markey:Yeah, yeah, we just went at ourselves. Yeah, did you fix his camera? Vic. He fixed his camera, you fixed my camera. You did. He didn't get any prettier.
Ty Cobb Backer:Did I.
Chris Markey:I should have. He didn't get any prettier.
Ty Cobb Backer:I should have. What um. Where are we at on time here?
Chris Markey:Almost 48 minutes 48 minutes Almost 48 minutes.
Ty Cobb Backer:We got another 48 minutes in us, don't we? I know we do. We probably got at least another two hours. But before we get off here real quick, is there something that you want to leave us with? Leave our viewers with.
Chris Markey:Yeah, you know, um, there's. There's a lot I talk about. I talk about um I've been talking about it a lot lately uh, coaching youth, I coach sports, I'm a varsity lacrosse coach and uh, through this whole boobid type thing we had gone through, um, I found that I wouldn't maybe was disappointed in the kids, but it probably ended up figuring out that I was more disappointed in the parents allowing, just not being parents, you know, whether a divorce situation or what. But I think there's hope and I I find that you know people are stronger than you realize and kids are stronger than you realize.
Ty Cobb Backer:More resilient.
Chris Markey:Yes, then we give, ever give them, you know, and I think we need to be that with each other, because I think part of everything that people are trying to or I don't know what's trying to go on, and they, they try to get us to hate one another, and then it just gets exhausting. And so I have hope, I have hope. I have hope for our future. I have hope for a lot of things, and I think we need to put our hand out and shake hands and tell people we love them a lot more. I think it matters, because you don't know where that person's been in that day. And I started doing something a while ago and I think you and I talked about it before and probably three to four times a week I'll send out text Now you and I text a lot, so it's different, but I'll send text out to people that I haven't talked to in a while and I call it being intentional. Hey, hope all is well. That's all I put. Hope all is well. That's all I put. Hope, all is well. And sometimes you get a dissertation back. Thanks for reaching out. I was thinking of you, man. It's been tough, chris. And then sometimes you'll get it's been great. Thanks for reaching out and thinking of me, but I think we need to do more of that. I agree, we need to do more of that, not only with.
Chris Markey:I walk around the shop. I'm sure you do too. You walk around the building every day. I walk around my shop every day. You know what I mean. An employee just had a baby. You know, every baby born in our building is baby chris, by the way, and it's gender neutral. Just wanted everybody to know that. But uh, they didn't name them that, but I. The raise their raise was determined based on if they were named with their baby chris how'd that go?
Ty Cobb Backer:I'm not very well, so there's no chris's, no new chris so, if I'm hearing what you're saying, you mean to to be more empathetic because we don't know what?
Chris Markey:people are going through, um, or I, you know, I think, cognizant make we all. We all want, we want to regurgitate our opinions, because we opined for so long during COVID that I think sometimes, right now, you don't want to regurgitate those. I think you want to stop, listen and ask yourself what are they asking of me right now? And it's one of the things I work on every day, and I know my wife's probably going to laugh at me when she watches this thing. Right, but I truly do drive around, think about you know, how can I? Or how can I handle that situation better, or how can I be better as part of the leadership?
Ty Cobb Backer:For sure, I mean we have to right and that's a part of that that that personal development journey. There's no destination to this Right. You know what I mean it's it's it's like I was trying to say earlier. It's like, yeah, I could just show up every day and just stick my feet up on a desk Right and and you know, and wonder why things got a little mad and we were in the locker room.
Chris Markey:And the woe is me. Stuff gets on my nerves. Ty and I finally broke down and said to him I don't share a lot. I just met my biological father when I was 30. I haven't talked to my mom when I was 18. And I get all this. Oh, my parents are divorced. Well, mine were divorced four times.
Chris Markey:Like, I don't, like that just doesn't bode well with me. And I and I I you know I hit him with it. I was like you guys want to poo poo on me and you can't come to practice because your toenails hanging off. And I said but if I don't put you in the game when you're not here because you didn't come to practice, that's a problem, because your parents are sitting in or one of your parents are sitting in the stand. I was like, listen, you guys got to get away from this poo poo pooing about each other and you just got to start showing up and start making it happen. And that's like and I shouldn't have said probably opened up that much, but I will tell you they opened up more to me because they felt the same way, like, uh, you know what? Oh, coach, has been through it. Yeah, you know.
Chris Markey:So, I digress.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know a little bit and I so what, what, what to okay, so wrap that, wrap that up for me.
Chris Markey:Well, I just think that we need to love one another a little bit more and I think we need to reach out and understand people's situations, and I think we I'm going to be honest with you stay away from the TV, stay off, you know, get out of that shit. Shake somebody's hand Like look them in the eye, know what their world's like.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know what I mean.
Chris Markey:And you know I try to. You know it's this, this, this is not all about money. You know it's not. This is all about we need to love one another and we need to do it in a better way, including myself, no doubt.
Ty Cobb Backer:So yeah, yeah, no, I like that, I, I, I, I agree, I agree that you know we need to be a little more empathetic, um, but the on on the other side of the coin, too, is that we're not here to be doormats either. No, you know, and if you're not willing to meet me halfway, at least meet me halfway. You know, mike and I just had a conversation my guy down in the Carolinas, you know, yesterday, about, you know, meeting, you know, boohoo and about torn toenails or whatever the question might be or whatever the issue might be. You know what I mean. There there was, you know, the all this soft, you know, and I guess that's what drives me crazy. Sometimes too, it's like you know every, not everyone, but there's, you know, looking for something for nothing. And you know, and and navigating through that bullshit, like where, like, are they just looking for something for nothing or are they willing to put into work? You know what I mean.
Ty Cobb Backer:And then, right, they missed practice. And then it's game day, friday, right, and they don't understand why they're sitting on the bench. You know what I mean, but you never put the work in. Everybody else was here. Even the worst player on the team is here trying meeting me halfway. So, like I'm pouring into this, kid, you won't allow me to pour into you, but yet, kid, you won't allow me to pour into you, but yet you want to get the glory, you know, on on game day. You know what I mean and it's and I think people don't understand. You know you. You gotta be consistent Like one. I can't trust you. I didn't know if I could put you on the lineup or not because you weren't here Sunday or Thursday's practice. So you show up Friday because, yeah, it's game day, but I didn't no call, no show. Like what, what? What was I supposed to do?
Chris Markey:But that goes for work.
Ty Cobb Backer:You're making a sports analogy, right now, but the same goes for your office. Exactly what I'm saying.
Chris Markey:Right, oh, why did he get that lead? Well, you weren't here and, by the way, they were asking about this which you weren't in our meeting about that, and we weren't in our meeting about that, and we weren't able to bring up the date. We just want that direction. Yes, right, totally, oh, but it's uh that you're taking money out of our my mouth, or food out of my kids mouth.
Ty Cobb Backer:come on man, yeah, come on, then you should have worried about that when you took off two days this week already yeah, you know, oh, no doubt I don't feel good yeah, yeah, no, what a great, what a great conversation always that, like I said earlier, this is why, um you, you were definitely one of my favorite guests coming on the show, because always our conversation should be recorded, every conversation we have, you know, on the phone.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know the conversation we had earlier today when we were on the call like that all of that stuff should be recorded and edited, most of it. But there are some, there are some golden gems in there that, uh, you know, and and I, I, I enjoy you. I appreciate you more than you'll probably ever know, chris.
Chris Markey:Oh, one of these times I want to have a show tie, cause I keep a list of quotes and like favorite quotes or favorite things out of a book or whatever. I want us to come on here and just start going down the list, reading some of the good ones, yeah, like, like, and I'm sure you probably write them down or you have a book of them. It would be really cool to just to go down and start start reading those and be like, you know, like uh and what it means to you.
Ty Cobb Backer:not necessarily in terms of when you read it or heard it, because I don't know. I'm pretty sure you're like me even though I'm reading something, my mind goes somewhere else, Like yeah, they're they. They meant it this way, but I can use it this way, Right? You know what I mean, so I'd like to hear your interpretation.
Chris Markey:I'm going to give you one little gem. Okay, John Wooden, basketball coach, UCLA won like 10 titles, it's so weird.
Ty Cobb Backer:You just said his name.
Chris Markey:he the pyramid of life, yes, but one of his favorites, yeah, yeah yeah, one of his favorite sayings is it's what I learned after I knew it all that made me the man I am today, and I'm thinking priceless yeah I've kept that with me forever because it is so true yeah, so true so true, yeah, no, that's good. So yeah, and that's one of my favorites, john Wooden. Yeah, if you don't, you got to dig into him.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, he's just brilliant yeah.
Chris Markey:I just started, oh did you, yeah, I just yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:It's so weird. You. He's one of the all-time greatest NBA coaches of all time.
Chris Markey:No.
Ty Cobb Backer:NCAA, ncaa yeah.
Chris Markey:Well, whatever, a short guy like you doesn't know basketball, not at all but he's awesome.
Ty Cobb Backer:But I will kick your ass at a game, one-on-one Probably yeah.
Chris Markey:Probably I tore my Achilles years ago. It's all Nick's fault.
Ty Cobb Backer:Excuses are already coming. No, I love you but lacrosse, I'll let you kick my ass, I'll give you that one.
Chris Markey:Anyhow, how about?
Ty Cobb Backer:pickleball we can play pickleball.
Chris Markey:When I beat you don't cry. We can't play 77 games until you win one. And then you say I won.
Ty Cobb Backer:Why it's the last one that counts. I'm just warming up, alright. Well, thank you everybody. Thank you, chris, for coming, and thank you everybody for joining us on this Wednesday edition of Behind the Tool Belt, episode 279. If you haven't liked, loved and subscribed yet, please do that, and if you know anybody that may get something out of this, please share it with them or reach out to us, ask. Ask us any questions in the comments. We do follow back up.
Chris Markey:Be intentional. Yeah, be intentional.
Ty Cobb Backer:Till then, we will see you guys next week, as Vic and I will be on the road.
