Behind the Toolbelt
Behind the ToolBelt is a live, raw, and uncut podcast that brings real, unfiltered conversations about business, leadership, and the entrepreneurial mindset. Hosted by Ty Cobb Backer, CEO of TC Backer Construction, this live show features leaders, innovators, and experts sharing their experiences, strategies, and insights. From building successful companies to overcoming professional and personal challenges, each episode offers valuable perspectives for entrepreneurs and business owners and leaders looking to grow, and make an impact.
Behind the Toolbelt
Behind the Leadership Curtain
Behind the Tool Belt returns to its roots with an inside look at leadership development and relationship building through a conversation with TC Backer sales leader Ben Catlin.
• Ben shares his journey from Michigan to Pennsylvania, including his early influences in music and sports
• Family connections played a key role in shaping Ben's character and work ethic
• Breaking into sales happened gradually through college experiences and car sales
• The transition from car sales to construction came from prioritizing family time
• Leadership capital refers to the trust bank built through consistent behavior and communication
• Effective leadership empowers team members to think for themselves rather than following directives
• Creating relationships across departments breaks down communication barriers
• TC Backer differentiates itself through customer-focused approaches rather than one-size-fits-all solutions
• Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs) help maintain consistent quality even in challenging situations
• Continuous learning and staying open to new perspectives drives company growth
To watch or listen to your favorite episodes of Behind The ToolBelt, Brick By Brick plus much more content, go to our YouTube Channel and subscribe.
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And we are live. Welcome back everybody to Behind the Tool Belt. I'm your host, ty Cobb-Backer. Thank you for joining us on this Wednesday edition. Today we have another special guest. Stay tuned. We will be back after our short intro from our sponsors.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Behind the Tool Belt, where the stories are bold, the conversations are real and the insights come to you live, raw and uncut. Every week, host Ty Cobb-Backer sits down to bring you the stories, the struggles, the lessons learned and the wins. No filters, no scripts, just the truth. Please welcome your host of Behind the Tool Belt, ty Cobb-Backer.
Ty Cobb Backer:Let's go. Welcome back everybody to Behind the Tool Belt. I'd like to welcome everybody. We have another amazing guest today and Vic and I were talking last night about. Obviously, we've been talking a lot, we always talk a lot, sometimes probably too much, but in this particular case we were talking about um, you know, getting back to our roots and and you know back to the basics of behind the tool belt, where basically it started in a basement, literally garage band basement. You know, iphone 8, all the good stuff, and it was a lot of. It was about tc backer and that was the. The birthplace of.
Ty Cobb Backer:Behind the tool belt was promoting windows, door siding, solar gutters, right, and man it just became. It was tough coming up with content, but the cool thing was is that it engaged the entire company. The entire company was engaged with it. I mean, tyler, sam, everybody would watch every night. It was 7 PM Eastern standard time every single Wednesday and we haven't missed a week since then. 285, 283 weeks ago we started this and there's been a. It's been an amazing journey. We've been, we've traveled around the country, we've taken this place, places that I would have never expected, invited, places when, years and years and years ago, I was told not to come, not to these particular places. But you know, I just the way, my past history, my years ago, it was kind of like people never invited me to go out with them or where I was asked to leave and and things like that, just because I was a little rowdy yeah, fair enough.
Ty Cobb Backer:So, anyhow, we wanted to do a spotlight and start with ben and you know I was thinking. It's like you know I wanted to introduce you as my friend and I wanted to ask you like I know it sounds like a dumb question, it's like I know you're, you know a co, you know leader, you're, you're a team member of the team and it's like you know my friend Ben. It's like Brent Ben, are we friends?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah absolutely.
Ty Cobb Backer:And I think, and that's a good, great response and it's like and growing more, I think, as it's like and and and growing more, I think, as as time goes on, and and uh, and I know that sounded like a weird question, but it was a question I asked myself because I'm thinking how am I going to introduce Ben to the stage?
Ty Cobb Backer:And, you know, do I introduce Ben as my, as my friend is, my friend Ben, that I've known for several years now, um, directly, indirectly, through family members, and and and stuff like that, and and we, we teamed up a couple of years ago and and and you came onto the team and and, uh, kind of worked your way up to the ranks and kind of like the way that you know we, we were hoping it would work out, and here you are today, and so we decided to kind of bring you in as as our first. You know spotlight. You know Ben Benji Benji, vitamin Catman, aka known as Ben Catlin, everything else but that usually, when you're in the room with me and you know one of the things, that if you know me and if you have a pet name or a nickname that I give you, that actually means something. I'm throwing that out there to anybody.
Ben Catlin:Oh, I know.
Ty Cobb Backer:If you don't have a nickname okay, there's something wrong. I probably don't like you. You know I hate to say that, so I'm sorry if there's anybody that's in this building today that doesn't have a nickname. Uh-oh, I probably forgot, Not necessarily because I don't like you, but anybody that I see frequently. You know that I care for. I don't know what it is about me, but I don't know. I just grew up that way, I guess, and so anyhow. So, Ben Ben Caitlin. Welcome to the stage, Caitlin.
Ben Catlin:Caitlin.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, caitlin, I know you love that.
Ben Catlin:Got it my whole life man.
Ty Cobb Backer:Cat man.
Ben Catlin:Any of my family members that are watching right now. I apologize for Ty calling us Caitlin, but that's all right.
Ty Cobb Backer:No doubt. I do know a Jim Caitlin spelled with a K, though, yeah. Spelled the same exact way. Yeah, but they spell it with a K. I know it's Catlin.
Ben Catlin:Yes, I've always been this, always, I mean to this day. Like I only have a homeowner call and they're like hey, I'm looking for a Ben Catlin. I'm like oh, that's me, I'm Ben Catlin.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yes, oh, I'm sorry, but so anyhow, welcome. Welcome to the stage. I know you've been on here a couple of times. You know, usually I think around home, home show stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, and I always enjoy our conversations and I know you studied leadership, you know just as much as I do, and and I thought, well, why not? And for those of you that may not know, Ben, you know we're, we're going to probably dig back into you know, you know who Ben was and what his, what has made him who Ben is today, and like what has become like your moral fiber today, Like things happen to us, whether it's careers or, I don't know, family situations, I don't you know. Obviously, people take it as deep as they want and and, uh, we'll start there and then we'll kind of just dig, dig into you know where, where we're at today, what it was like how you got here, and kind of like what it's like now. And, uh, so, Ben, the, the, the stage is yours, man, Like kind of get, kind of give us, give us.
Ben Catlin:Try to fit it in what 45 minutes or so. Yeah, trying not to make this too bad, but no. So I'm technically a transplant. I know we're here in York, pennsylvania. I did not grow up here. I'm not from here. I grew up in Michigan. I was technically born. I'm technically a Texan. I was born in Texas. My dad when I was technically born, I'm technically a Texan, I was born in Texas. My dad, when I was born, was in the military and I was born in Fort Hood, texas or around Fort Hood, texas.
Ben Catlin:And then, when I think it was one or one and a half two years old, we moved up to Michigan. Uh, that's where I grew up, that's where my family's from, both my mom and my dad, uh, families are from central Michigan, that area, um. And then, uh, dad, uh, got a different job or a promotion with his job and we moved down to Metro Detroit or a promotion with his job, and we moved down to Metro Detroit and that was when I was in, I guess, 11 years old or so. So first, 10 years, backwoods, redneck stuff, you know, uh, good old boy stuff, if you, if you will, uh, with a Canadian accent. Basically, uh, cause I've been told quite a few times my years living here in Pennsylvania that I have a. I've been told quite a few times my years living here in Pennsylvania that I have a distinct accent and people usually think that it's Canadian. But it's not, it's just Michigan, it's just Michigander.
Ben Catlin:But yeah, and then growing up was really into sports, really into music. Um, my, my dad's side of the family, um, I have three uncles and my dad and, uh, my grandfather. They, they played, uh, they played country music, uh, on the weekends. I think that's uh what I've been told, that's how my uncles and my dad made their allowance money is they would, they would go play, uh, either local Vfw halls or things like that, and play, play a couple hours country music, um, type thing. So that's always been like within graph for me, always, um, and from a, from a musical standpoint, I've always I can, I can distinctly. I can distinctly remember my first favorite song. My first favorite artist was Johnny Cash, folsom, Prison Blues, nice, and my dad had the record. But I remember in the mornings before school, waking up before mom and dad, because I'm an early riser, used to be, anyway, I was an early riser and I would get, you know, yell that to quiet down. So I would, and I would quiet myself down by turning on the Johnny Cash record and playing that.
Ben Catlin:And then something happened to me, musically wise, that just opened up my, just opened up the entire universe for me as far musically goes. And it was actually when the first time I ever heard nirvana's smells like teen spirit, that, the intro, the drums, the, the dirty sounding guitars like that. That was the first time I heard that and the rhythm and everything and just it was like it just opened up an entire universe for me. And then from there you get other other influential bands and songs. Or like green first time I ever heard green day when I come around, like the, that rhythm with everything, yeah, um, punk rock, you know, uh. And then that led into other bands like, um, third eye, blind, uh. That when, like their first first couple albums, was really influential to me. It's more on the pop side, but it was still influential Stuff that I like, I like the sound of it. And then, with my country roots too, I like guys like Alan Jackson. I could name off a whole bunch of old country artists yeah, the old school stuff.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, new country's old school stuff. Yeah, yeah, New country's not that's the same. Yeah, yeah.
Ben Catlin:Yeah, it's basically rock these days, but at any rate, um so music was really a big and still is a huge part. I mean, I think this might that's my language Like, uh like, if no-transcript.
Ty Cobb Backer:It helps connect and bring people together, for sure yeah.
Ben Catlin:Yeah, this, this, that's always like I joke, but like when you're when you're trying to figure out how to be a professional salesperson and you don't know what questions to ask when you first meet somebody, I always found that and it was a joking matter. We were like so you like music? Who's going to say no, I don't like music, like it, no one's going to say that. So but yeah, I was really into music in high school, was in. We made our own punk rock band. We did covers of punk rock stuff. We wrote our own stuff. We had a very brief little nuance where we played like the high school talent show and everyone thought we were rock stars. We were really more. We just had like one song, but it was a good time.
Ben Catlin:Yeah, it's fun, a little bit of fun with that. And then, going back to the other side of me too, is sports. Sports are just a huge, a huge background. My first, my first like love of sport, was actually baseball. Um, I remember, I remember um playing playing t-ball and um, my first coach was my dad, and then, um, and also my grandfather too, taught me how to throw baseball properly Huge, huge thing. And then my dad would teach me how to swing a baseball bat and then my grandpa would also teach me how to properly swing a baseball bat and then like, so there's that into.
Ben Catlin:Of all the sports I played, I think I was the best at football and, uh, I didn't start playing football until I was nine years old, I believe. Um today's day and age, I think that's late, cause I think they're letting kids play football at a younger age than that. But at the time, with the little town that we grew up in of Alma, michigan, it was like nine, you was like the earliest you could start football and our, uh, our first, my first coach was actually my uncle and my family's huge, uh, huge part, cornerstone of of my life. Um, my uncles are and aunts are surrogate mothers and fathers. Um, my cousins are brothers and sisters sisters my grandfathers and my mother, my grandmothers were basically surrogate mothers and fathers to me as well as far as that goes, and it helped that we were all sort of pretty close as far as proximity area wise. So it just made sense that my uncle, kevin, my cousin Alex's dad, was our first football coach and he taught us how to play football the way that we thought we should play football, and we're obviously, just by looking at me, I'm not a, wasn't a. I wasn't a skinny kid or a fast kid.
Ben Catlin:I was one of the big uglies that was in the trenches hitting somebody every single play, and what I loved about the sport was I don't know if you knew this about football but you can hit somebody as hard as you can and you don't get in trouble for it. I found that fascinating. I loved it. So that was basically a huge internal stepping pad for me of like hey, I can, I can, uh, hit somebody and I'm not getting trouble for it. In fact, everyone's applauding me and screaming good job because I hit somebody really hard, like this is awesome, like let's do this again, let's do this more. So there's that.
Ben Catlin:But uh, like the, but my favorite sport, my favorite sport is, uh, ice hockey. So I, I love hockey and that probably just because I grew up in Detroit in the mid to late 90s through early 2000s, the professional hockey, the only good professional team, we had in the city of Detroit, was the Detroit Red Wings, all those guys. I could go on for hours about that, but huge fan of ice hockey, just in general. So you know, talk about the music, talk about that. And then how did I get in the sales? I'm glad you asked yeah, how did I get in the sales?
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, how did you get in the sales so?
Ben Catlin:long story.
Ty Cobb Backer:That was my next question, yeah.
Ben Catlin:Yeah, yeah, so I got in the sales, believe it or not. And cars, yeah, uh, I got into sales, believe it or not.
Ty Cobb Backer:And, um, cars are another huge thing of just being well, let's, let's rewind when, like, did the sales thing happen in Detroit or after you moved? It happened when, I moved.
Ben Catlin:It happened to. Well. I guess the the beginning parts of selling happened when I was in college, believe it or not, and I remember we had to do. I was in a creative writing class in college because I really didn't apply myself very well in high school so I had to take, like, the remedial classes. I like talked my, I knew I was a salesman when I when I talked myself into the college I ended up going to. So I didn't have the grades. Honestly, I had no right of going to the college that I went to at Elmwood College. It's a very prestigious, very smart, academically enriched school. I had no right going to that school. I literally I found someone I could talk to that was on the uh, the administrative side of things, the admission side of things, and I literally talked myself into into the college.
Ty Cobb Backer:So so that was over in Michigan, Okay.
Ben Catlin:Um, and then, uh, creative writing class we had to begin because I like music so much I really wanted to be either a lawyer or I wanted to be a music executive, cause I was like I don't have the talent to actually be like a musician, like, but or I want to be a producer or something, something behind the scenes. So I really want to do that creative and creative writing. We had to, uh, we had to do an actual, uh research project. And one of my history teachers in high school he was actually roommates with a guy that was a music executive at a actual record company in Los Angeles and I just I circled back to my history teacher from high school and he goes don't mess this up. But he said that you could call him. Here's his phone number. Just don't, don't, don't mess it up. So I talked to him and then I had to make this whole research project and in that I did a whole sales presentation on wanting to be a music executive.
Ben Catlin:Everybody else was just like. And then I remember my professor she's going, you know, I think you're going to be a salesman. I'm like.
Ty Cobb Backer:I don't want to be a salesman because no one wants to be a salesman. Yeah, it sounds, I think, the interpretation that we perceived over sales person. I think it always I don't know, just I don't know people.
Ben Catlin:There's always that negative connotation.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yes, that's what I was looking for. Yes.
Ben Catlin:You know it, you know they. They say, oh, license to steal or whatever that is. But you, you have a. You have a the mindset of. If you detach from the whole situation and live in the idea that every person on this planet, whether they recognize it or not, is it truly a salesperson, whether it's a salesperson or herself. Yeah, like I could be. I could be a roofer. I could be legitimately on the production crew. I'm a salesman in some capacity because I have to sell myself to my to my other guys on the crew Team yeah, yeah, exactly, homeowners, whatever.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yep, yeah, your wife. Myself, to my absolute. My other guys on the crew team yeah, yeah, exactly, homeowners, whatever.
Ben Catlin:Yep, yeah, your wife yeah, yeah, and that that's your thing too. Yeah, you just like it's yeah the, the, I guess, the sooner you recognize it well and even okay.
Ty Cobb Backer:so we had somebody fill out an application today, okay, well, what do you think he was doing when he was out there during his interview? His first interview was with tam. What do you think he was doing? I, he was out there during his interview. His first interview was with Tim. What do you think he was doing? I mean, he's applying for a non-sales position, but he came in here to sell himself. So I agree and to solidify your fact is that you know, at some point in time throughout the course of our lives, we're selling ourselves, we're selling other people. It could be at the post office, could be at the grocery store, could be negotiating over a parking spot. You're, you're selling something. Yep, yeah, for sure, for sure.
Ben Catlin:Yep. So, but I, finally I made the professional leap when I graduated from college and I had this big fancy piece of paper that says that I was really smart and I couldn't find a job to save my life because this happened during the great repression, or whatever we're calling it, whatever it's called Recession, recession, sorry yeah, recession of 2008, 2009 type thing.
Ben Catlin:So imagine me being in the middle of nowhere in Michigan with a fancy piece of paper that I got, saying I was smart and thinking, oh yeah, I got this piece of paper, I'm going to, I'm going to do everything now. I went from, went through from the school of thought to the school of hard knocks. So, um, truthfully, mom and dad moved from Michigan to Pennsylvania because mom's a very, very, very, very professional accountant controller. She worked for Kellogg's and they have a Pop-Tart factory in Muncie, so that's where that. And then I had to do the at age 23, move back in with mom and dad for a little bit.
Ben Catlin:And then dad was dad was selling cars for a big group up there and uh, got me an interview and then I sold myself to the sales manager and he hired me and then I started selling uh Nissan's for two and a half years and then I uh sold BMWs here in York for a little bit and then, uh, I spent a bulk of my uh sales, uh car sales career up in mechanics, berg and some motor cars group. Uh sold Audis and it was. It was that's where I really became professional, but that's the big leagues. Like. There's a difference between just being a sales car salesman type thing, like you really have to dig deep and work on your interpersonal yeah, where you go from sales to actually catering to people's needs and wants.
Ben Catlin:Yes, yeah, there's the biggest thing Want.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, yeah, big, big, big difference between sales and catering to needs and wants.
Ben Catlin:Yeah, and which was really like when I reflect on like what we're trying to do here as a company too. It really parallels on trying to maximize the most of what we have at our disposal as a company of creating the best customer experience we possibly can, and that's ultimately what I learned, like shout outs. As far as that goes, go to guys like John Yetter. Um, I don't know if he's watching, I don't know if he's going to watch this, but he is paramount in the development of the person, the personal, the true personal professional sales experience. That, uh, he taught me and I grew beyond that, but he was the launchpad of, of developing the what, what I am professionally today is is that, uh, onus to John as far as that goes, cool, so, um, and then, basically, long story short, had a started started making a family and car industry.
Ben Catlin:Being a car sales Hours are very long and I didn't want it to be a situation where I didn't recognize and my kids didn't know me. So I made the switch from cars to construction roofing and haven't looked back since. I love it, it's, it's great's great, especially what we do, because what we do as a company, we were, yeah, we're roofers, right, but we do gutters, we do windows, we do doors, do solar. If you want to do solar, we, we do siding. We will build you a deck if you want us to.
Ben Catlin:So that makes it for me in my adhd. That makes it really fun because it's something new every day, like when the, when the guys, what's the position? I'm at now. The dichotomy of our, of our company, where I'm at now for your team, is I, I get, I get to sit with the guys on all the stuff Like it's, it's not just my stuff, I get to help the guys out with all the stuff. It's, it's not just my stuff, I get to help the guys out with all the stuff. And then I can also use my experience on, like the, the lessons learned, like, oh man, I messed this one up a couple of years ago.
Ben Catlin:Hey, make sure we don't say this or hey, make sure we're looking at these parts of the house to make sure that we're going to get it set off on the right foot, like so. It's little learning experiences again, school hard knocks, yeah, but if you win more than you lose, then you're pretty good, I think no doubt. No one's perfect.
Ty Cobb Backer:No, that's great. It's great and you shared with us a lot of things that I I didn't. I mean, I've heard bits and pieces. You talk about Michigan, you love the red wings and and and hockey and and football and stuff like that, but I don't think I've ever heard the full story or you mentioned it the way that you did. And it's kind of cool because I talked about moral fiber right, and listening to you basically in your development, right, Family music, which is huge influence on me as well, and and who I hung out with and and who helped design my character, right, like listening to kurt cobain, that that that seattle sound yeah during the the 90s like era.
Ty Cobb Backer:That was, that was my biggest thing. And and getting back in, you know family, you very, very family oriented, your uncle coaching you football and your dad at T-ball and you know things like that and that's that's pretty nifty. A lot of people can't say, say that you know what I mean, especially nowadays with with. You know single parents and and things like that. So that's, that's, that's cool.
Ty Cobb Backer:And then into sales and overcoming the adversities of the great recession and pivoted over into sales and made a living out of that and was mentored by the gentleman that you mentioned earlier. And now that you now where you're at today, you have the opportunity to pass on what has been so freely given to you, and that's that's really the moral fiber of of TC backer right Is is giving back right what, what we are teaching ourselves on a day-to-day basis, like I said earlier, you know, I know you're a student of of leadership and continuously trying to push yourself and elevate yourself and educate yourself in order to educate other people. And then the the great thing about this is, like you know it's not, we're not an Anderson window where it's. You know we're in your home for three hours until you sign and getting ready, I think there's no hard close it's. It's we're in the retail space.
Ben Catlin:God, please no no, right.
Ty Cobb Backer:So so you know, being in the retail space, people are actually we're sought after, right? So people are seeking us out and that's what's kind of, that's what's really cool about what it is that we do. So obviously there's a need there, so we get to go out and service their needs and provide them value and walk them through this journey that in most cases, when it comes to construction, isn't a very pleasant experience, and I think that's that's a lot of homeowners hesitation about calling, especially a roofing contractor or any type of, you know, exterior construction, just like, just just as much as salesperson, like, oh my God, a roofer. Right, there's, there's a stigma around that, and what we're really trying to do is improve the industry as a whole and but more importantly, it starts here, about what we're doing. Right, we're trying to lead by example and be be the pioneers and trailblazers.
Ty Cobb Backer:And you know we had an amazing meeting last last three weeks. Yeah, we we've had an amazing meeting about, you know, overcoming objections out in the field, right, not overcoming objections with homeowners, even though that's that's something I'm sure that you review with your team on a day to day basis. But more importantly, it was like you know when things go bad, how are we going to handle them? Right, and we don't want our team responding out of fear, outside of a healthy fear. Right there, there won't be any unhealthy fear that they should be struggling from. It should be a healthy fear of like. Okay, we we need to take care of this issue. We stumbled across what was the gutter guard that was on the house, but what was that? It?
Ty Cobb Backer:was like a gutter helmet, something like that, Right, which is the worst product out in the market anyhow. But you know, okay, shit, they got it. What are we going to do? We have to take it off in order to get our drip edge on, instead of everybody panicking. So we came up with a resolution of like what's the process, what's our SOP? You know to handle the situation. Salesperson didn't mess up, Homeowner didn't mess up, Production ops nobody messed up. It's just just gotta get this done.
Ty Cobb Backer:We just stumbled across this situation. It's like okay, once we take it off it's gonna run. Okay, cool, replace it with lifetime warranty stuff that we provide workmanship and manufacturer warranty on win-win for everybody. Now they get free gutters cleaned out right, new gutter guards, cool, no problem, no harm, no foul. And that's our approach. Yes to not like let's see how we can reinstall this damaged gutter helmet that we just destroyed. Taking off, it's like, no, that was like the furthest thing from our mind. So to to have that type of mindset compared to the sleazeball roofing contractor salesperson, you know what I mean. Like it's like, and I can't remember I snake oil sales.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yes, I did some research on the actual word sales and we were. We were at hunter's office and I did. The word sales means help and I don't know if it's old english or old latin. I think it's latin. If you look it up, sales actually means give and help somebody and somewhere along the the decades and generations, and in terms of the century, the word sales has just become not a very flavorable choice of words when we put it on our business card. I mean to the point where I think we were trying to like figure out how, how else can we come up with?
Ty Cobb Backer:anything but a sales rep, salesperson, saleswoman, it's like we try to get away with it. But you know, yeah, unfortunately it is what it is. But you've called us and how can we make this a pleasurable journey? Right, and it's like every day we're continuously trying to work on improving the customer's experience and journey. You know, and that's that's what's really cool, because we have control over, we can go with the status quo and handle everybody the same way.
Ty Cobb Backer:Everybody else is handling things and and getting online and talking shit about how much better we are, and you know it, we don't do it like so-and-so down the street. It's like, okay, no, we're just going to allow our actions to speak louder than our words. We're not here to to make any other roofing contractor look bad and we're sure as hell not going to preach it from the rooftops of you know how much worse they are than us because ultimately, at the end of the day, they have the same exact resources, tools, products as we do. Yep, right, so how are we going to differentiate ourselves from everyone else when everyone else basically has the same tools and resources as we do?
Ben Catlin:We prioritize what's important to that individual homeowner. We create center focused on that particular homeowner. That's what sets us apart. We go into every meeting, whether it's an appointment set weeks in advance or just a couple of days in advance, and we try to we cater to understanding, because how can you help somebody if you don't truly understand what the problem is? That's that's what we're trying to do here, like and and. There are plenty of instances where maybe we're, maybe we just can't help out that particular homeowner. But guess what? We've got some people that we know that we can give you, we can, we can help you out with at least establishing that relationship with someone else that could help you with what you're experiencing on your house. Like that's us, that's what we do, yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:No, that's great. You know I love this topic. I love this subject, I love our company, I love our team and you know that's the thing too we talk about. You know team members and co-leaders and things like that. And it's like I was told a long time ago that the fish always stinks at the head first. Right, and that has stuck with me. I was in a meeting with somebody and unfortunately it wasn't. It wasn't about me. I just got to witness and experience a situation where that particular comment was brought up in that conversation and it has always stuck with me to make sure that and I'm not saying I've never put us myself in a situation where the head started to stank.
Ty Cobb Backer:But you know, through trials and errors and things like that, you know you just try to. You know, improve upon, but you know, allowing, allowing you guys to, to make decisions right and giving you that, that, that type of empowerment. And and I came up with something a while ago, um, and I'm sure I heard it someplace along the way but um, basically it's like you know, stop telling them what to think. Basically, it's like you know, stop telling them what to think, but encourage them how to think. Do you know what I mean, and that's just my job today is to kind of like be that guide. Like this morning in that meeting it was like I was asking questions, not because I was trying to poke holes in anything. I was asking questions because I wanted to hear you guys come up with the solution.
Ben Catlin:Work through it ourselves.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, work through it. That's why you know we kept flipping it back to like all right, next week I want to see you guys work on these things, because what that does is that empowers everybody. Now they're making decisions on how the KPI should be designed, right. They're making the decisions on how the SOPs will be put in place for those future people that come into the company right, and we've already talked about, like, jeremy needing an assistant, and it's like everybody by that form of clear communication and very transparent, and calling each other out on like, okay, yeah, the salespeople shouldn't be doing this anymore because they suck at it, and really it should be production, because they're already there or whatever. However the conversation went, you know what I mean, and production sucks sometimes too, but there's always that there's a bridge that we need to gap, and you're not the gap. By the way, I was telling Ben this morning that he was the gap and not the bridge. You were actually the bridge to gap.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know the communication from there to over there, and that's where I think a lot of people there's a miscommunication. It's like, yes, we want that competitive spirit, we want that healthy competition amongst you guys and in your group. We love that, we need that. And it's like how many jobs can you sell to make the production team stumble? Yeah, you know what I mean. And vice versa, it's like, all right, come on, guys, you guys aren't selling enough. Like that, this is easy over here. Then it's like we're trying to create a good problem. Yeah, essentially is what we're trying to do, but we need that clear communication.
Ty Cobb Backer:And and and we were talking about earlier, before we got on here, was leadership capital. Yes, okay, and and. Where my head goes when I hear that phrase, leadership capital not only is it like a trust bank where, over time of being consistent, you start to build up trust. I also look at it in terms of when to use the authority and when not to use the authority. Like, do I want to burn my capital up on some useless stuff where I'm scolding people, or do I pick and choose my battles wisely enough? Because then when I do draw that line in the sand, they I mean business yep exactly, exactly, exactly.
Ben Catlin:That's. That's a. That's a pivotal thing there's in that I played football all the way through college and always, always recognized, especially when I was one of the young guys on the team the actual leaders were not only our best players, but they're also the guys that and that wasn't always the case, but usually like your best players, like just so happens to be the one A good leader.
Ben Catlin:Yeah, right yeah what I didn't understand and what I could not stand, to be honest with you, was the one that was the super rah, rah, rah, rah, rah one. No, I pay more attention to the dude. That would actually help the guys that are under them. And the reason why that guy is helping the guys under them is because what if he hurts himself, what if he tears his ACL in the game? What, then, are we okay with? Are we okay with just packing it up and hope we win this game or we quit, we're done? No, next man up. And with that capital I always paid attention to, and in these later years, in the most recent years, uh, I've really become, uh, a huge student of just trying to grow the leadership and influence of, of confidence from you, so that I can instill the same stuff for the people that I'm supposed to be helping out, so that they can do their job and they can feed their families, type thing.
Ben Catlin:I'm trying to teach them to fish, not just give families, type thing. I'm trying to teach them to fish, not just give them a fish. I'm trying to teach them to fish. The thing is like what? What you're honing in on was was, uh, you know, basically, we're trying to teach people to fish. Yeah Right, I'm trying to.
Ty Cobb Backer:I'm trying to teach you how to think not you how to think, not what to say. Yeah Right, yeah, think on your own. Yeah Right, make mistakes. We need people. We haven't talked about this for a while, but I mean this morning we did in our meeting but, like we need people to to make mistakes hopefully not very costly mistakes and we talked about, like, the errors that we've made over the years and and the the safeguards that we and guide rails that we try to put in place. But sometimes we hop over those guide rails and things happen. But it's how we deal with them.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know, if everyone's terrified that they're going to get in trouble or they're going to lose their job, or they're going to get fired from either making a mistake or thinking outside the box and bringing ideas to the table, and if you can't make it a collaborative meeting right and and allow everybody to participate in it and give feedback, if it's just one way. So now you're taking away the empowerment. Now nothing happens. Now there's a bottleneck. Everybody is waiting for the information to come from the top down. Yeah, okay, and there are times that it needs to come from the top down, but it also needs to come from the bottom up.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, and who knows better than those on the front lines, right, and that's why I'm enjoying this meeting, too, that we're having, because, for multiple reasons. One, because it's kind of like, you know, helping people open their eyes, like, oh shit, I do have other resources, I don't have to take, take on this all by myself, right, and we're, we're kind of watching Lauren come into her, her, her space here, like, oh, I do have other people here that I can flip that on and put a barrier between me and I think it's what you said yesterday actually, when the in the global meeting was delegation.
Ben Catlin:Yeah it's OK to delegate. Nobody is going to call you lazy because you're delegating certain things. Because you have to prioritize what's important, what you have to execute on a daily basis or a minute by minute basis when you're in the room, what you have to execute on a daily basis or a minute by minute basis when you're in the room, like that must be nice to. I know that when you're talking about some stuff, I'm sure I'm not going to talk for her, but like I was thinking in the back of my head, man, it must be nice to have a day by day prioritizing it. Mine's literally minute by minute or hour by hour, to be realistic, like hour by hour.
Ben Catlin:I had to execute this, this, this, this. Okay, what has to be done first? Okay, cool, Make this phone call, send this email, sit with the salesperson to make sure that they're good with this homeowner at this afternoon, like it doesn't matter. But that's mine's an hour by hour as far as that goes with what we have to do. And it's even worse for other folks and other positions in the company or on the team. Like Lauren and I agree with you I feel that we are accomplishing a lot in a small amount of time with just getting face-to-face in the same room on a weekly basis, just to yeah, that's I'm excited for it and I'm glad you guys are having your meeting, bridging that gap, keeping that line of communication open and creating those relationships creating those.
Ben Catlin:I was actually just trying to figure out how we could segue into what we want to talk about.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, exactly and I just want to add one thing to that. You know, um, one of the things that that I'm enjoying about being with you and getting closer to you, kind of going back to like developing our relationship and and really galvanizing that is that I get the opportunity. What good is the knowledge that I have if I'm just behind closed doors all day and you're upstairs and I've been kicking myself in the ass for several months probably, and Vic and I have talked about this for a long time. It's been over months where I've been just so over inundated, where I've been just so over inundated, right, with other stuff.
Ty Cobb Backer:Okay, and and one of my new year's resolutions were my my only new year's resolution was is to remove things. You know, most people set goals and they're piling and stacking all kinds of shit and it just becomes a bunch of broken promises and wonder why your fucking self-esteem is all screwed up. Well, this year I elected to remove people, places, things and situations in order to, you know, filter in and be around certain people, places, things and situations that are conducive to my, my health, my wealth and my spirituality Right, and my health, my wealth and my spirituality right. And it's been a slow go right, so I can get back to the golden hen, right, that has laid some golden eggs that tend to distract me, and I know I'm kind of going off on a little tangent here, but this is me. You, nah, I don't believe it.
Ty Cobb Backer:This is me just trying to unpack a bunch of things too, and that's one good thing about this podcast is that has allowed me to unpack a bunch of stuff. And you know and this is a part of my, my, my leadership experience, my leadership journey you know me continuously trying to work on me in order to accommodate and not to try to bite off more than I can choose, thinking that I can accommodate everything at one time and this has just been my most recent experiences is like, dude, what you got to get back to, like what you were telling yourself. You know, december 31st, you know, with your new year's resolution man, you know that you kept adding shit in there, kept throwing stuff on top of the pile. And year's resolution man, you know that you kept adding shit in there, kept throwing stuff on top of the pile, and it's like, nah, dude, you got to start, you got to start peeling some of this stuff away. So, anyhow, I'm enjoying spending more time with you and Lauren and Zach and Glenn and and those people, and we plan on doing some other areas too that you know where I feel like I'm.
Ty Cobb Backer:I'm nurturing the, the golden goose again, but it it goes back to some of my relationships early on. You know, like Glenn and I's relationship isn't what it used to be. We were, we were pretty tight and, um, you know, lauren and I were pretty tight when she first started here. Her first six months and we talk about this probably longer her first 12 months she rode shotgun literally in my truck with me every single day of the week. I mean, I don't know what other way to create and develop an amazing relationship. And not that we still don't love each other, but we have grown.
Ty Cobb Backer:I have grown away, you know, from those relationships that at one point in time were where I could look at her and tell her exactly what was wrong, yeah, you know. But now it's kind of like I've kind of grown away from that and I'm really trying to get myself back into the relationship building of of people that I enjoy being around, yeah, um, and that that bring joy, that that is conducive to my mental state. You know what I mean and that's what that's what our Wednesday pros and ops meeting has has really done for me. Just just so you know that, like I'm, you know, and seeing Amanda's face in there today taking notes and stuff, um, has brought a lot of joy to me. I look forward to it. This morning it's cool.
Ben Catlin:So like, basically, I think what we wanted to talk about was leadership, capital and then the power of the relationship um I think and with that.
Ben Catlin:The just notes are like you know, leadership requires relationships, good relationships with people above you, below you, beside you. You know, in the quote, unquote trenches, you know the next man or woman on each side of you. You know that relationship that you have with them, um, so the concept is the better the relationship, the more open and effective communication there is. And you've you said it quite a lot and I have to agree 100 that communication is the. The biggest thing that we have is humans between each other. We can actually talk to each other, um, but anyway. So the the more effective the communication is, and then from that the steam rolls and grows to the more communication there is, the stronger the team will be. So it's literally the circle of life. As far as like how, if you were to ask me Ben, how, how do I strengthen the sales team?
Ben Catlin:We gotta we gotta create relationships with each other. We just have to. We can't just be I'm a guy that shows up two hours a week, two hours a week in the office, right, and then that's it Like no, we got to spend that time. We got to ask each other the questions of like, hey, how do you do how many, how do you know how many? You know feet of Valley We've got a? How many rolls of ice and water should we got to put in a house If there's like 30 feet of Valley?
Ben Catlin:Oh, cool man, yeah, go just talk shop and start with talking shop and then start talking about yourself personally and then start talking about what you like and what you don't like. And then then, if you're like me, then you start making fun of each other. And then the next thing you know you actually have a relationship and then, with spawning off that, you start actually communicating well with that individual and this individual and that individual and you got yourself a nice dichotomy of communication. And then next thing you know you're a very strong team, like, instead of one person that's good at doing everything, everybody in the room is now good at doing the stuff. Because we're communicating, we've established those relationships, we've galvanized ourselves from within, basically.
Ben Catlin:So that's my idea and that's what I'm trying to accomplish, so that you know that's what I'm trying to accomplish with our team here in Pennsylvania, with the sales team, and also being able to maybe it's a superpower of mine, but being able to detach and see something from a different perspective. Just very briefly, not saying that I see all the stuff, but just very briefly seeing that and then that leading, seeing the tea leaves, so to say, so we can maybe do a slight pivot, not not us about facing all the way, it's just just a slight pivot so that we can adjust, because that's the other thing too about all of this stuff is in us, building our relationships and communicating everything. We also still have to, we have to be open, and we cannot, we, we can, we cannot stop learning new things. We have to keep an open mind with everything For sure. That's and that's how you win.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, you, and a lot of what you're talking about is trust. Yeah, yes, developing trust, staying consistent. You know, like you said earlier, you know, not only being here for two hours, you know, you're not. That's not very consistent, you know, and and there's no way of being able to build trust and then even knowing who they should report to, right, and we experienced that here too, for for a brief minute, where it was kind of like, you know, the teams were split up and then you know what, whatever, and it's, you know, being able to pivot because ultimately, at the end of the day, I believe, everybody trusted us enough, we were able to build up enough leadership capital for for you to stick around, for Brian, stick around, for the team under you guys to stick around, until we decided or made decision of, like, okay, which direction are we going now? Because we have approached another growth spurt, yep, so what do we need to do here?
Ty Cobb Backer:And with that, you know, because of the trust, the team was able to adapt quickly, make changes, you know, and we have to, because markets change, market conditions change, buyers, behaviors, buyers, you know, think, all types of things change and without that open line of communication, we can't pivot quickly, yeah right, if everyone is and this goes back to decentralized command, like if everybody's kind of waiting on me necessarily to make a decision. And I'm not saying that I'm perfect about this, I'm still studying. I'm like I started to write a book 12 steps of of to leadership, and the problem with that is is that I'm still learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:That's why it has been published. Yet you know what I mean With everything that I've I've documented and put down and and wrote. It's continuously evolving right, Because it's like the more that I realize about myself. You know the my my perception of things, of how I used to think and how I used to handle situations is totally different, even even just a couple months ago. Yeah, like I'm hearing things differently and interpreting them.
Ben Catlin:It's, and I I think not to take words out of your mouth, but what I think you're trying to say is is you're keeping that open mind You're, you're not done learning, nobody's done learning, right, the day that you're done learning is the day that you die. Basically, that's the way I look at it. For sure, Like that is, there's no other way around that. Like we need to as people you as a person, you as a person, me as a person, vic over here as a person we all have to stay open-minded. We don't know, we don't know everything.
Ty Cobb Backer:We don't Exactly, no, we don't, we don't, and I understand you know people, you know being decisive versus being indecisive. And again, this, this is that trust bank that we talk about and that, that capital, that that we gain. You know where, where we can. There are times that we can be indecisive. When we're very decisive, hopefully, majority of the time, outweighs the indecisiveness, you know, and that's where that trust in the communication comes in, Like when when you're MIA and you're not available and people can't contact you and they don't know which direction to go because it's a pretty important decision that needs to be made. But once you are learning just as much from your team as that they've learned from you, that's true, authentic culture.
Ben Catlin:Yep, yes, like they know what my call would be, so what's the point in calling me? Absolutely they already know what my call is going to be.
Ty Cobb Backer:Right.
Ben Catlin:They're just going to do it.
Ty Cobb Backer:Exactly, yep, exactly, and if I'm MIA, that relationship could never be forged or developed by being inconsistent. Exactly.
Ben Catlin:Exactly If you're not consistent with being present, not consistent with your yearning or wanting to learn to, so you can execute and establish yourself, and within the team and what we have to do.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know what's the point Exactly. Yeah, no, this is such a great conversation. I feel like we might've wanted to start with that because probably, that's okay, we can, it's. This is such a great conversation. I feel like we might've wanted to start with that because, that's okay, we can, it's. This won't be the last time that you come on the show, but you know, and that's the thing it starts it starts with personal development. It starts with, you know, taking your experiences that you were discussing earlier today your, your family, your bonds, how you want to be treated, you know, is the way you want to treat other people.
Ty Cobb Backer:You know all of those things that have defined us right, not because of our behaviors, right, that's. I don't want to say our behaviors necessarily define us. It's the things that we have learned from things that have happened to us in the way that we may have behaved poorly or good, that truly define us right. Just because I made a mistake, right, I made a bad call, I wasn't available today, doesn't necessarily mean that's who I am right. And having empathy right Both parties myself, you, you for me, me for you goes a long ways to and keeping an open mind and and trying to figure out what.
Ty Cobb Backer:What can we learn from this? Why is this happening for us and and and not to us? We talked about that a little bit this morning in our meeting and and taking that right and learning from it, it's like, okay, unfortunately there's a big gap there that needs felt. We need to create another SOP and we've been on this SOP. Kick for for is is that you know the standard wasn't set long ago enough. Yeah, you know what I'm saying you know you got it.
Ben Catlin:You have to take it easy on yourself too, because that every everybody starts learning something at a particular point in time for a reason. Something at a particular point in time for a reason that's what I believe, anyway. Like something clicks, something out of nowhere you'll give a little bit of attention to, and then then you grow off of that, so you can't kick yourself on that no doubt but yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm in the game with you, I'm all for it.
Ben Catlin:Like it's that, we we need to, as daunting as the task can be, to create from scratch another SOP about this from start to finish, that's fine. Like we, we'll figure it out. Like we'll, we'll get it done.
Ty Cobb Backer:And what's cool is is we don't have to do it by ourselves.
Ben Catlin:Yeah, that's, that's the, that's the absolutely fortunate thing, because I think I'm very fortunate for that the people that we talk about very briefly on this podcast from time to time but, yeah, there are so many people that do actually do the work. Um, for for me, like it's, it's, it's astonishing, like how effective and efficient other people are at me versus me trying to. You know, a monkey with two fingers and a keyboard. Like good luck getting that done sometime soon. So, yeah, it's awesome.
Ty Cobb Backer:I feel that I feel that Well, cool we're.
Ty Cobb Backer:Where are we at about 56 minutes into this? Um, is there anything that you want to leave us with real quick? Um, if not, that's cool too. Um, just want to give a big shout out, you know, to our entire team. I can't, I can't say that enough, and I think what we're going to do here randomly is we're going to pull names out of a hat, we're going to put every team member's name into a hat, and I'm not going to say once a month, but but seldom we're going to pull a name out of a hat and and uh, whether they like it or not, we may end up in their office or on their job site the microphone yeah, and and do a podcast you see that show it's it's like a between two ferns, whereas it's like it's that it's set up like like uh, supposed to be a serious interview, one-on-one interview, and it just always turns into it not being real at all.
Ben Catlin:But it's yeah stuff like that. Yeah, it's like I'm, I'm, I'm here in your office and I'm not going away, so you might as well, uh, reluctantly answer my questions. Yeah, I might go anywhere. That's what we're doing.
Ty Cobb Backer:Hopefully, the majority of everybody will want to come on the show, but we just we want to do a highlight of of everybody who has watched this. Everybody has has watched this. I mean this. We're coming up on five years of doing this right and and we couldn't do this without them and, like I said, we're getting back to our roots, going back to basics on a lot of these things. Some of this stuff, I'll be solo sometimes where we got a great guest coming on next week and if you're in sales, you're going to want to watch this next week. This is a. What's his name, Shy Ellis, and what's the name of his company?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Ty Cobb Backer:Let's, let's play the promo here real quick.
Ben Catlin:Segway.
Speaker 2:Join Ty next week when he welcomes shy audis. He's the founder of one call close academy and author of in-home sales a bestseller that's changing the game for sales pros everywhere. Next week, on behind the tool belt yeah so super excited.
Ty Cobb Backer:Um vick lined this one up. I don't know this guy from a can of spray paint, so I'm going into this, not blind. I'll have to do a little recon, yeah do some recon and that way I can come up with some good questions. So by me putting that out there, if anybody you know, do some research.
Ty Cobb Backer:Vick's going to be running this promo about this. This gentleman who's kind enough to go on this podcast, obviously he must see some value in it. Or else I'm gentleman who's kind enough to come on this podcast, obviously he must see some value in it. Or else I'm sure you wouldn't want to come on, but he does want to come on the show. So put some questions. Either message me through Facebook, if you got my cell number, text message me. But but, ben, get with your team and and put together some questions get some questions.
Ben Catlin:Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, get me some questions, um, and I'm sure he's going to want to answer them, all of them, especially if it's our own team that that's asking him those questions. But, uh, ben, thank you for everything that you do, yeah.
Speaker 2:Thanks.
Ty Cobb Backer:Thank you for coming on the show at the at the last minute.
Ty Cobb Backer:We kind of decided this. Even though I have. I have some good stuff that I've been writing down and some of it's from the book that I've been working on. I kind of let the cat out of the bag officially right now. It'll come out, I might. Just I don't want to just throw shit on the wall and see what sticks.
Ty Cobb Backer:I want to make sure that 10 years from now, when I review or read the book, that I still stand by those thoughts, morals, you know. So it's when we're talking about leadership here. I really want to make sure it's serious stuff. My personal experience all of it will be from my personal experiences, most of it regurgitated things that I've learned along the way, I've heard along the way, and with my slant on it, of course, because I don't interpret things the same as everybody else does. It kind of takes me off someplace else where I may be able to apply it differently and in a different application than what it was proposed to me as Um. But that that'll be. I don't know when. There's no date, no launch date for that, but um, love this stuff, thank you. Thank you for coming on the show at the last minute. Yeah, I love this stuff, thank you.
Ben Catlin:Thank you for coming on the show at the last minute.
Ty Cobb Backer:Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, so thank you everybody for tuning in. We will see you next week. Same time, same bat time, same bat channel. So then take care of each other, we'll see you next week.
