How The Go-Giver Framework Transforms Leadership, Sales, And Life

We share why Bob Burg’s ideas reshaped how we lead, sell, and serve, and we announce his upcoming guest spot. From the five laws to practical persuasion and follow-up, we map how value-first thinking builds trust, referrals, and durable teams.

• Why value is the experience, not the product
• Compensation tied to how many you serve and how well
• Influence as putting others’ interests first with boundaries
• Authenticity as a trust accelerant in leadership and sales
• Receptivity and celebrating wins so others can share the joy
• Endless Referrals and know-like-trust as a growth engine
• Follow-up and value-based touchpoints that compound
• Persuasion as safety, alignment, and emotional clarity
• Adapting communication styles and always giving an out
• Service over selling for long-term brand strength

Make sure you clear your schedule at 12 o'clock p.m. Eastern Standard Time for episode 315. In the meantime, pick up The Go-Giver and Endless Referrals.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Tease For A Major Guest
• 3:41 Why Bob Burg’s Work Matters
• 6:20 Personal Reading Slumps And Breakthroughs
• 8:20 The Go-Giver Clicks: Value First
• 11:15 Know, Like, And Trust As A Business Engine
• 14:05 Five Laws: Overview And Intent
• 15:03 Law 1: Value In Customer Experience
• 18:18 Law 2: Compensation And Scale
• 22:15 Law 3: Influence Without Martyrdom
• 25:48 Law 4: Authenticity As An Edge
• 28:05 Law 5: Receptivity And Letting Joy In
• 34:10 Endless Referrals And Relationship Equity
• 38:20 Follow-Up, Touchpoints, And Service
• 41:45 Persuasion: Safety, Emotion, And Fit

Transcript

Ty Cobb Backer: 0:00

Welcome back, everybody, to Behind The Toolbout episode 311. I am your host, Ty Cobb Backer, and thank you for joining us on this Wednesday edition. Stay tuned. We will be back right after a short intro from our sponsors.

Ty Cobb Backer: 0:57

Hey, hey, welcome back, everybody, to another episode of Behind the Tool Belt, episode 311. One more week. We are a week away from our six-year mark. 312. 312 is the biggin. And uh we have some special things coming on. And uh we've been doing actually a couple special things for the past few weeks. We've been dropping hints, we've been, you know, dropping some teasers, running some promos, you know, that were, you know, guess who's coming on the show? And and today, today we are finally going to roll it out. This guest is is someone, somebody, someone um I followed for for years. Um, someone's whose books have shaped not only our business, but but my my perfe uh my personal life and and how I lead um at home and and how we lead here at work. And uh, you know, someone's you know whose whose principles um I've tried to pass down, you know, to to my friends, my colleagues, you know, my family, even my kids. Um his work has has literally changed the the entire trajectory um you know of my life, how how I lead, the the quality of person I want to be today, and you know, how I sell to to how I serve and and how we build relationships. So um so we're going to roll it out.

unknown: 2:33

Our first guest of 2026 has sold over a million books worldwide, helped create one of the most recognizable leadership philosophies of the last 15 years, taught entrepreneurs from Fortune 500 companies to small business owners, and has been featured on major business stages around the world. His work has been translated globally and continues to shape how leaders communicate, build trust, and grow. A best-selling author whose work has inspired millions, introducing Mr. Bob Berg. Consistency. Hey, we live in an inconsistent world, and yet people, we as human beings, crave consistency in others. You know, in this business, how many times have you heard why McDonald's is so successful, right? We know it's not because they have the best hamburgers in the world, but they are consistent. That holds a very high value with people. And I would say this when you communicate excellence and consistency, you're communicating extremely high value.

Ty Cobb Backer: 3:41

And that's right. My man Bob Burg, the legendary Bob Burg, co-author of the Go Giver series, uh, author of Endless Referrals, The Art of Persuasion, it's not about you, and several other books. You know, Bob, Bob will be our first guest of 2026 coming on episode 315. And I couldn't be more honored to to have this this gentleman on our show. Um, and I guess it's a true testament to consistency, you know. Um, not that Bob necessarily noticed us, but uh felt confident enough in us and our abilities to bring him on our show to share our stage with us, and and in turn, hopefully we can share his stage. So I'm pretty pumped about that. And today's episode, uh episode 13311, um, it's gonna, it's we're gonna be shining a spotlight on on Bob's teachings, the mindsets, the principles, the values-based, um, value-based uh approach to um to how this has transformed my life and and honestly can can transform uh transform yours as well. And um, you know, and and Bob's Bob's books was one of those one of those books, you know, where like every once in a while I'll go through a slump and I'm just not picking up what what what authors or podcasts, you know, I'm just I'm not I'm not I'm not feeling it. And and Jana sometimes will will refer books to me and and uh shit the one book that she referred to me was uh oh shit, Barnice. Um oh man, my mind just completely went blank. But long story short, I think two or three years ago she recommended um dare dare to um dare to lead, I think, by bar. Oh man, man, I am freaking screwing this up. Janna posted in there um in the comments of of who um he referred to me. Anyhow, it took me about three years before, and I tried reading it, I tried listening to it, and I just for some reason I just I wasn't there. I wasn't receptive at that moment in my life, the season of my life to receive her message. And I tell you, I've listened to at least three of her books. I read one there, Daring Greatly was the book, and man, it it's giving me goosebumps right now. So I was kind of going through one of those slumps and and I picked up The Go Giver. It was the it was the first book, and I don't know if somebody recommended it to me or if it showed up on something that you may be interested in, also, you know, one of those things. So picked it up, I started reading it, and it hit me, it hit me right between the eyes, you know. Um, I felt like he was someone who could articulate what I've always believed in, you know, in my gut. Like I felt it, I felt it. And and but he he packaged it in a way that that that finally kind of gave me a roadmap. And and for me, you know, that person was was Bob Berg. Um I read The Go Giver, you know, years ago, and something inside me clicked, you know, the idea that success isn't about taking or or chasing, but giving value first. And that resonated with me deeply. And and I recognized, I realized, you know, this is how I've been trying to build my life. Um, this is how I wanted to to lead my companies. Um, this is how you know I want my kids to to grow up thinking. And and you know, but but Bob didn't just give me the warm fuzzies, he gave me the framework. Um, literally, he has written out, you know, the laws, the five laws of stratospheric success. And now I'm gonna review some of them today. And I interpret things a little bit differently. And if Bob's listening to this, he may be cringing um or may cringe after. And this is me, you know, hopefully not butchering up his work too much. But um, I I tend to interpret things a little bit differently, and I plant seeds, and sometimes it applies to me um today, and sometimes it doesn't click till years later. Um, but one of the books that one I want to say, I might have picked up um Endless Referrals first. I I think I maybe was digging to see what other stuff Bob wrote back then, but I I don't remember. I think the first time um his first edition of Endless Referrals came out in 1993, I actually carry around with me the um the 2006 third edition of Endless Referrals, where he explains that um people doing um and a lot of these things that I'm gonna say today, you're gonna know where where exactly they came from. And one of the one-liners is um where he explains, you know, that people do business and refer those that they know, like, and trust. And that's one of Bob's biggest lines. And I'm sure a lot of my coworkers have heard me say that dozens of times over the years. And that's where I got it from. I got it from Bob Berg, um, Cats Out of the Bag. Um, and and if you if you build that, you know, build it that way, build your business that way, um, it becomes unstoppable. And I'm a true testament to that. And and uh, you know, I I owe a debt of gratitude to um, you know, Bob, you know, and I I actually get to talk to him on a podcast in a couple weeks. And man, I just it's it's it's rather mind blowing. So anyhow, if you haven't heard of Bob Berg, now you now you now you have. I highly recommend, I highly suggest any of his books, whether it's he's got uh the whole Go Giver series. Um, you got to see a little clip of it that on that clip that Vic ran earlier. Um, one of my other favorites was the art of persuasion, um, where he teaches uh the uh influence isn't about you know being pushy or manipulating um or overpowering. Because I've I've seen, I've done, I've seen a lot of salespeople who are very pushy and overpowering. I've seen it, I've done it. Um I'm guilty of it myself. Uh we we try not to lead that way today, you know, especially in the sales department of things. It's about um understanding others, um, it's about respecting their needs, it's about communicating in a way that that connects, right? Um, you know, and these books didn't just, you know, help me as a CEO. It they've they've helped me as a father, as a husband, as a leader, all these things, you know, and there's many, many, many, many, many other influencers out there. But the way that Bob kind of like pulled a whole bunch of things, Dale Carnegie's lessons and you know, many, many, many other people over the years, you know, things that I've read and listened to, he kind of pulls them all together. And he's been doing this stuff a long time. Um, but today I want to break down some of his his exact principles to the best of my ability from from Bob's work and and what that shaped who I am and how you can apply them in your home, home improvement company, um, and not just business owners. You know, um, this just goes out to everybody. This all of these principles apply to everybody in your anybody who deals with people, and it could be your family you got to deal with, it could be your team, your co-workers. Um, and uh I plan on giving several more of these books out um this Christmas to some of those uh close to me. And uh have I've given them to my my friends, I've given them to my colleagues, I've given them to my own children to read. And that's that's how impactful they have been for me. Um, you know, so you can, you know, hopefully after today you'll be able to apply this into whatever aspect of your life, whether you're on a sales team, you're you're a sales leader, um, you own a home improvement company, whatever, whatever it might be. But the core, the core of the go giver is built around five five laws, five laws of stratospheric success. And today I want to walk through my interpretation of each one and and share how I've seen it show up in in real life. I mean, it it it's it's mind-blowing. And unfortunately, the cat's out of the bag, and and um, I should have probably never held on to some of these nuggets as long as I have, but um, I am learning that what is what I have learned is meant to be taught. So here's the beginning of this new journey that I'm on today. So law law number one, it is the law of value. Okay, you you've all heard me talk about value, and the true worth is determined by how much more you give and value, okay, than you take or receive in payment. And that that's one of Bob's biggest, you'll hear that in several of his books, the four or five go-giver books, you'll hear where he talks about the true worth is determined by how much more you give and value than than you take in payment. And that's huge. It's it's it's huge. And if you can live that way, um things will definitely change and turn around in your life. Sales will pick up, referrals will pick up, all the good things um that we're that we're using as vehicles to have a better impact on the world in which we live in today. So that's huge. Okay, so in in the roofing space, okay, or any home improvement trade, people often think the value is actually the product that we sell or that we're installing. It's not the shingles, it's not the siding, it's not the gutter whatsoever. Okay. What it is, it's the real value that they experience. Okay, it's in the experience, okay. It's how the homeowner feels when we show up. It's communication we provide. And a lot of this we went over last week. I started to drip some things out last week. It's in the trust in several weeks. Every every week, we probably talk a lot about this. Trust is a big one. You know, it's the trust that we build, uh, it's the peace of mind that we create, especially in the roofing industry, right? And that's where value skyrockets. Okay. When a company lives these principles, customers never feel like they paid too much. Okay. They feel grateful that they found you. That is the law of value. Okay. So law number two is the law of compensation. The law of compensation is your income. Your income. I wish it's been getting dry here lately. Somebody cut a big hole in the wall. It's freezing in here, so we had to turn heat up. Anyhow, law of compensation. Um your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them. That's the leverage you have over your competition. Okay. If you can make someone feel like you really truly listened, you really truly understood what it is that they're going through, and help them find a solution to their problem. And that's the silver bullet to any successful business is finding um people's pain and having a solution for it. You know, there's there's a lot of companies that are just a want that are out there serving as more so as a want. And you'll see a lot of those want companies start fading, especially under economic um stresses and things like that, when people just don't have the money. Um, their wants seem to be put on the back burner. Um, but those businesses who have found the problem, the solution to people's problem, like roofing, roofing is one of those industries where we have a solution to many people's problems, hence why um we we have been able to sustain along with all the five laws of stratospheric success. So the law of compensation, your income is determined by how many people you serve and how well you serve them, okay? And it scales. All right, serving one person exceptionally is great, okay, but serving hundreds or thousands exponentially, um, you know, exceptionally um is is when your impact and your um success skyrockets, okay. And we do a lot of things around here, a lot of not just um public charity events and impact comes in many, many forms. And time, the time that you spend with with people understanding, listening to their problems, and helping them identify a solution is value, it's free, and it is probably the most precious commodity, is time, and we talk about that a lot. We we we definitely talk about that a lot. And I've seen I've seen this first hand building teams, building TC Backer, building other companies. Um I've seen it happen time and time again over the years, and like I said, Bob has given us the roadmap to to to all of this. You know, the more people that we serve, the more value we create. Okay, the more opportunities flow back towards us. Compensation follows contribution always, okay. And again, contribution happens in many forms. It could be you um working for a company, being on a crew and not giving pushback, showing up every single day, being the go-to person, being responsible, being relied upon. Okay, and the more that you contribute, the more you get compensated. That is just the the natural universal. Um, I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for? It's just it, it's it's I don't even want to call it karma. It's just that's just how the universe works. Okay. Um law number three. Let's jump over to uh law number number three here the law of um influence. Okay, your influence is determined by how abundantly you place others. Other people's interest first. Okay. And I'd like to think that I'd lead by pretty good example on this one here. Um, but that doesn't mean be a martyr. That doesn't mean um you're keeping score. I think that's the big thing too. Um, because I've done that. I may still do that at times, you know, it depends on what kind of space I'm in or what mood I'm in or how badly I feel like I was taken advantage of, because that's also put me in a place to be taken advantage of. And that's not necessarily the other person's fault. It's that I allowed that to happen. And um I didn't set a deadline, I didn't put a timeline on it. And I'm getting better at that. I'm getting better at um having people meet us halfway, you know, and and that's that's really what it's about. Um, you know, it's it's not necessarily putting yourself last um and being a freaking doormat. And I guess that's that's the that's the point I'm trying to make here, you know, is putting other people's um needs in front of your own because you can interpret that where, you know, because unless you've experienced it, you know, being a doormat um and putting yourself last, I I've done that and and have struggled mentally over that, my health, my spirituality. And then I tend to get a resentment and get pissed off with people because I guess I'm expecting a return on my investment, right? Um, and sometimes um, you know, uh that can lead to a bad relationship or difficult conversation, or I act poorly. But what I think it means is you know, focus on focus on helping other people win. Um, lead with curiosity and not ego. Um, make them the hero, not you. Okay, and that's a that's a tough one. Um, and sales, it means asking questions and then shutting up and actually listening. All right, and and then leadership, it means developing people and not controlling them, you know, and that's that's a tough one too, especially if you're early on in entrepreneurship or or just younger. You know, I think a lot of that stuff that we just mentioned comes over time, trial and error, and surrounding yourself around uh people who are leading their people well and and asking them the right questions on how do you deal with certain situations, because we the way that we used to run things around here was is it was hard for me to ask for help. And we're gonna talk about that a little later here in the last law. But um, every every strong relationship, personal or professional, is is built on this law. Is built on this law, and we can share these on here too after the show. I'll go ahead and post all these laws on the show and and my interpretation of them. If if you guys want, I can do that for you. But uh, law number four, the law of authenticity. Okay, the most valuable gift you have to offer is yourself. Getting back to time, right? And this one hits home for me. Okay, we had the opportunity to take care of my mom several years ago before she passed away. And um, you know, really, I think all my mom wanted was just more time. Time, time for her to spend with us, time for us to spend more time with her. And uh back then is when I realized how precious the commodity, right, of of time, time is. So that's the most valuable gift you can you can offer somebody is your time. And uh when I started in business, I thought I had to be, you know, a certain way. I thought I had to talk a certain way, thought I had to, I thought I had to lead, you know, a certain way, um, sound polished, sound professional, um, sound like, you know, the people I saw on, you know, on TV or the trade shows or or whatever, magazines, on podcasts, and and things like that. But but uh authenticity is is is my edge. Okay. Hence why we do Facebook Live. This is not edited right now. You get all the ams, the uhs, ums, um, is, was is mixed up, all the things that what you see is what you get. This is true authenticity right now, and that's what's so special about this show. One of many things that is so special about the show. You know, it's the truth, it's our story. This is our story every week. This is our story. Um, we share with you our journey, we share with you our scars. Um, people don't connect with perfect, you know. I found that out too. You know, they they connect with real, right? Authenticity is is not just admirable, but it's impactful. It's impactful. We're not perfect, you know, because people can feel when it's not real. At least I can. I can feel, you know, and authenticity is the gateway to trust. And that's what's so important about um law number four, right? The the law of authenticity is just be real, be yourself, be a human being. If you're in the people business, like we're in the people business, just be just be a person, just be human, okay. Um, law number five, okay. We touched on this a little bit earlier. It's the law of receptivity. Receptivity. Um, the key to effective giving is to stay open to receiving, and I freaking struggle with this. I struggle with it. It's the hardest law for me, and I know for a lot of us. Um, people who love giving often struggle with the receiving part. Okay. I've watched my mom go through it, I've I've watched my dad go through it, I've watched friends and family go through it, I've watched myself go through, you know, uh the struggle. I I don't know how to take a compliment. I don't know how to receive gifts. I want to be the one. You know, even at Christmas, I know Christmas is so commercialized, but I'm the last one to open the gifts. You know, and and the one thing that I've learned over the years, too, like if somebody gives me a gift, I open it now while they're there. I used to kind of just push it over there and continue the conversation. And I wouldn't open the gift while they were there. And what I had realized, especially over Christmas time, is that my family is waiting and watching, waiting for me to open the gifts that they had given me. And that I'm taking that joy from them, that same joy that I experience, okay, when I give somebody a gift and watching their eyes light up or watching them perform better at work or have more opportunity to to grow. And um it's I guess it's one of the one one of the many ways that I've been selfish over the years is taking away. And we talked about it a long time ago, where you know, the company, not me, the company earns these awards. And I used to kind of just bring them back and you know, put them in my office and kind of close the door and and and forget about them. And I one time, I don't know, it was a couple years ago, we were over at the old office and it hit me like a ton of bricks, man, of how I robbed our team's joy to and and recognition for their hard work, their their efforts that they had put into whatever it was that that our company had received the reward. Um, and I think my biggest thing was that I was trying to be humble. I didn't I didn't realize that I was actually being selfish and taking away from my team by not allowing them to experience the joy of the reward or award. What was I calling it reward? It's awards, awards again here as all live and authentic as you can possibly get right here. And and so now what we do is we we try to take group photos, we post them on social media, so then everybody, the community, can enjoy our experience, enjoy um the celebration of of whatever it was that we work so hard. And you know, when we started this journey, it wasn't about the the recognition. It was it's not still today about the award, you know, that we may receive or get recognized. I mean, don't get me wrong, it is nice to be recognized for the hard work, right? But that's not for me to hide it from the rest of the team. I'm not, it's not that's not up to me. So I've gotten a I've gotten better um about receiving and allowing other people to receive stuff too. There's two two parts to that kind of twofold, right? So um the law of receptivity on um people love giving often, you know. Um, but those of us that do struggle with receiving part of that. So um, because it makes us feel like um I don't want to bother anybody, um, I don't want to owe anyone. Um, I don't want to look needy. And I've said I've said all of these things to myself. I mean, I don't know how many times. I don't want to bother them, I don't want to burden them. I got this, I can handle it. Um, but giving and receiving are part of the same flow. That was the thing I didn't understand until I read this book by Bob. Um, is that, you know, if I'm not receiving gifts, I'm blocking off the flow that that reciproc, that, that um reciprocative part of giving and receiving, giving and receiving, giving. It's that natural flow of the universe, right? If you give, you must know how to receive. It's almost like forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, right? If I can't, if I can't forgive somebody, how am I supposed to expect them to forgive me? So it's it's just that universal law. Um, you know, so and uh I think Bob calls it the circulation of value. So, anyhow, again, I'm sure I'm butchering this thing up pretty good here. But the more you give, the more you must be ready to receive. Okay, and and in business, you know, relationships, opportunities, whatever, none of them work if you shut down the receiving end of it. Once I learn this, everything shifted. It really has, you know. Um, and uh yeah, so that's that's um that's the five laws of stratospheric success. Um, I want to touch a little bit on one of my favorite books by Bob, one of my first books that I've read by Bob was uh is was I don't fucking know. Sorry, pardon my French. It is um endless referrals. So endless referrals is not just a sales book, okay. It's a blueprint actually for building a business that grows effortlessly. Um, I guess let me let me put let me put this simply. Um the heart of it is is one sentence. It's all things being equal. Okay, and we talked about this all the time, and and you've heard me say this all the time. But people do business with and refer business to those they know, they like and they trust. This is universal. Okay, it doesn't matter what industry you're in, doesn't matter if you're in the roofing industry, the flooring industry, the car sales industry, the HVAC, the coaching, it works everywhere, okay. And the thing that I've read was um is, was, is why am I hemmed up on that right now? You know, people people need to to to feel seen, okay, not sold to, not pitched, seen, okay. We need to talk in terms of other people's interest. Okay, this is straight out of Bob's playbook, okay, and Dale Carnegie's as well. I don't know if you guys are familiar with Dale Carnegie, I'm sure a lot of people listening or who will be listening to this, um, how to win friends and um shit, totally forgot the name of his book, Influence Others. It's another good one. Um, but if um you want to be interesting, then you need to be interested, right? And I think that's right out of Dale's book. Um, I mean, we talked last week about, and I think we talked about it yesterday and yesterday's meeting is is follow-up. Follow-up is everything. And there's there's many compartments to that, but but our fortune is not in the first conversation, okay, that we have with people, especially if you're in sales, it's in the fourth, the fifth, or the sixth contact point, the the the follow-up. That's that's where it happens. Um you know, and I talked earlier too about like, you know, not keeping score, right? Like serve without keeping score. Um, plant seeds today. We talk about that all the time, that we can water tomorrow and today. Um, you know, plant seeds today, and that that we can harvest next year. And that's exactly what we've been doing for the last past several months here is is planting those those seeds. I know Ben and I have talked about it. I know Vic and I have talked about it. Um, yeah, so you know, but creating that value um based touch points, right? Uh reach out with with things that can genuinely, genuinely um help people, right? It could be shit, I don't know, introductions to to maybe they needed an electrician, right? We don't do electrical work, but we we got this guy over here, does all of our other work. We'll introduce you to him. Um, opportunities, tips, answers, um, engagement, just engage in the conversation, you know, and these touch points build relationships before the sale. You know, and I think a lot of people just try to go out and do the one call close. We got to do the one call close. And it's like, okay, that works, I guess, if if you're down with that. Um, but it's it's about the touch points, it's about building the relationship before the sale, which makes referrals natural and consistent. You know, this approach has helped me build the companies, you know, where referrals are not a bonus. It's not a bonus, it it's our foundation. Um, so and the other good book, too, is uh the art of persuasion. And being the selfish, self-centered person by nature that I am, I'm like, ooh, I gotta read that one. Right. And persuasion is such an interesting word. You know, most people think it means, you know, get someone to do something that we want. But in the book, Bob flips that upside down. He says persuasion is um helping someone willing, willingly move in a direction they already want to go, right? And that hits different, at least for me it does. And and I I want to I want to share with you a couple lessons that I've learned from the uh persuasion framework. And and one it would be, you know, people make decisions emotionally and justify logically. Okay, in the home improvement space, nobody buys a roof because of a feature. Okay. I mean, yes, we have different warranties, yep, we have different thicknesses of shingles and and things of that nature, but they buy because of fear of leaks or desire for security. And that's what we do. We perform security, right? We we protect their their shelter and uh logic supports the purchase, okay? Emotion drives it, okay. And we need to be in tone, right? And we need to get in there and we need to seek to understand with questions like what's most important to you about this project? Okay, when's the last time somebody actually asked that question? Right? Tell me more about your concerns. What would be what would be a great outcome? What does that look like for you? Right. And when people feel understood, they feel safe. I know I do. I think about this every time I'm trying to be sold to. How are how are they making me feel? Do I know them? Do I like them? Do I trust them? Right? Am I trusting what they're telling me? Do I feel safe? Do I or is this I don't know? And I don't know how many times I haven't bought something because I didn't even understand what the person was trying to sell me. They like talked in like circles or this word salad or whatever the case might be. It might have been a great product. And it was probably the best thing I probably should have ever bought, but I didn't get the warm fuzzies. Right? People want to feel understood, right? They want to feel safe.

unknown: 37:53

Right.

Ty Cobb Backer: 37:54

When they feel safe, they move forward. And that's exactly the point that I'm trying to talk about is that if I feel safe, I'm going to move forward. If I like the individual, I'm, you know, people buy from people, right? And and uh so so try to mirror their communication style. Okay. Some people want more details, some people um want big picture visions, right? And and that's what I need. I I need to I need to kind of see it and touch it. Um, some people like bullet points, they want to know exactly when we're gonna be here and what's the process and and all those things, but we got to learn how to read what they what they're they're seeking. And sometimes, sometimes they don't even know. Um sometimes they want stories, they want referrals, they want, you know, get show me pictures of jobs that that you've done and project map it. Give give him a little plug here. He's got a great program where we can on a map can actually pin every single project that we've done and put pictures in it. Um, you know, so try to adapt to them, not force them to adapt to us, right? And I used to struggle with that. I used to try to to get them to adapt to me. And uh you just got to slow down, take a deep breath, and try to adapt to to their behaviors and um try to figure out how they want to see things presented to them. Um and always give people an out. Okay, give them an out. This is this is huge, okay. And where I've I've read in Bob's book, one of his one of his famous uh phrases is um, I may be wrong. And I started using that, I I could be wrong. Um, or um only do this if it feels right. That creates a psychological safety and ironically makes more people, makes people more open. Um, you know, and the other thing is too, is like make the other person feel in control.

unknown: 39:59

Okay.

Ty Cobb Backer: 40:00

Um, and I hate when I feel like I'm out of control. Like if I'm if we're going to buy furniture or anything like that, like if the if the person is so overwhelming and overbearing and and pushy and all these things, man, it's like I feel like I'm not even in control. I almost like this defense mechanism pops up, and I put my wall up, and I'm just kind of like, all right, we no, no, no, no. I don't even know what I'm experiencing, but that's that's what it is. I don't feel safe. This guy's just running his mouth, he's da-da-da-da. He wants to make the sale, and it's just, it's, it's just too pushy. And he doesn't give two shits what I buy. He's not, he's not listening to what size is your living room, what color pattern are you going for? Like all of the things, right? To to make it uh uh an enjoyable experience. Like he's really listening to me, he's really asking the right questions. He really wants us to have that daddy chair that when I come home on Sundays and watch 30 minutes of a football game before I pass out, like he's not listening. You know what I mean? You know, so and I've learned this. I've I've just because I've I've watched other people's um behaviors and stuff like that. But if if a customer believes um that they're in control, you know, they they that and they they'll make the decision. Like I don't feel like somebody's trying to make that this decision for me. Um, and persuasion is not about winning, it's about alignment. Okay, aligning, you know, and this is this is just leadership 101. This is sales, this is parenting, this is marriage, this is everything. Everything that I'm talking about right now, you can apply and all this stuff. And why this matters for us home improvement leaders, um, you might think, how does this all tie back into you know, roofing, siding, windows, gutter, solar? Um, I'm gonna tell you, um, you know, Bob teaches service over selling. Okay, we're not necessarily selling people here. When your company embodies service, right? Your reviews go up, your referrals start to explode, your team becomes proud of the culture, and our brand becomes unstoppable. Okay, and I think we've we've got the experience, we're all experiencing a lot of this on a day-to-day um experience here. So um and his work has really, you know, helped me um with with building the company and um while and and while being a a a better human being, you know, not a sleaze ball, no pressure, just influence with purpose or integrity, whatever, you know, and his work has also helped um me communicate more effectively. Um, you know, teams want to follow leaders who care about them, right? Um, and Bob gave us the the framework for for earning the trust. I I reviewed a lot of it and hopefully I didn't butch it up. You know, his principles build long-term um business relationships. And in our industry, long-term is everything, at least in my experience. Um, his teachings have have made me a better person, not just a better business owner. Um, and that's why um episode 315 with Bob is is going to be life-changing. It's going to be life-changing for me, and I hope that we can impact um a lot of people in the ways that this has impacted me. Uh, maybe before we wrap up today, um, I just I just want to say how excited I am and how grateful I am that we will bring Bob Berg onto our show in 2026. Um, this is truly our biggest guest ever and someone who has shaped my life leadership in ways I can't even begin to measure. Um, if to so if today's episode resonated with you on any level whatsoever, if you want to build a company based on trust, uh service, influence, and value, then make sure, make sure you clear your schedule at 12 o'clock p.m. Eastern Standard Time for episode 315. In the meantime, pick up the Go Giver Anless Referrals. He's got five, five books he co co-wrote with uh um I think it's John David Mann, um, the Go Giver series, and and then he wrote eight books, other books, and I mentioned a couple of them. Uh Anless Referrals, the art of persuasion. These books aren't just for for you know business, um, they are life's frameworks, they truly are. And thank you for hanging out with me today for episode 311 of Behind the Tool Belt. Much love to everybody, our viewers, our listeners, our team, and our partners. And thank you for continuing the climb with us. You know, I'm your host, and I will see you on the next episode.