How a Two-Day Course Changed the Game for this Real Estate Broker: Doug Ryan

In this episode of Negotiation Made Simple, host John Lowry sits down with Doug Ryan, a commercial real estate expert with over 25 years of experience at Colliers Nashville. Doug has played a pivotal role in some of Nashville’s biggest real estate deals, and he credits advanced negotiation training as a game-changer in his career.

Doug shares how investing in negotiation skills transformed his ability to close deals, build relationships, and navigate complex business transactions. He reveals key insights, including:
✅ The biggest "aha moment" from negotiation training
✅ Why everything in business is either an “X” (competitive) or an “O” (cooperative)
✅ The one simple tactic that helped him get more out of every deal
✅ How to slow down negotiations in uncertain economic times

John and Doug also discuss the upcoming Negotiation Made Simple Live Workshop in Nashville (April 29-30, 2025), where professionals can sharpen their skills in real-world negotiation exercises.

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Transcript

John Lowry 

Welcome to negotiation made simple where we help you master the art of negotiation and win the next deal. I'm your host, John Lowry. I'm really excited about this episode where we are going to think about how. Advanced negotiation training can accelerate business success and here to help us think about this is one of my. Friends and colleagues Doug Ryan, Doug is with Colliers. He's been a professional in the commercial real estate space for years and years and years. He's done some of the biggest commercial real estate deals in Nashville, TN. Everyone knows that Nashville has been growing like crazy, that downtown has been. And Doug Ryan has been behind much of that, making the deals happen that bring this city to life. And so I'm really excited to talk with Doug about how intentional he was in making sure that he equipped himself with the negotiation skills necessary and the way that he did that. 

Speaker 

I. I. 

John Lowry 

Was through investing in negotiation, training and taking part of it on a regular basis and by doing so, giving himself the tools that he needed to get some of the biggest deals in Nashville real estate done. 

Speaker 

I. 

John Lowry 

So let's jump into this conversation with Doug Ryan of Colliers Nashville. 

Speaker 

The. 

John Lowry 

Doug, welcome to the negotiation made simple podcast. 

Doug Ryan 

Glad to be here. You. 

John Lowry 

Well, I'm excited to have you here and really interested in having this conversation with you about how negotiation training really helps business leaders accelerate their success. And that's been part of your story as you shared back with me. And this is a great opportunity for you just to kind of share that with a larger audience about really what I think was maybe a surprise for you in terms of saying Wow. Like I didn't know how far. A more sophisticated set of negotiation skills could take me. 

Doug Ryan 

Absolutely. And you very quickly learn what your weaknesses are and the best thing about you know your program and working with you over the many years we have is just. Getting actual tools to help you get better. And it's. It's an ongoing. It's not something you learn. You like. You got it mastered. 

John Lowry 

Well, let's jump into all of that in just a. But first, tell people a little bit about your background. Everything that you've done from a business standpoint and what you're up to now. 

Doug Ryan 

Sure, 25 years or so in commercial real estate, mostly on the office side. Office Leasing Class A office. So much of what you see. I've had some fingerprints all over and and I've got a degree in architecture and a master's in urban planning, so they kind of all mix together. It's been a it's been a fun ride. Worked for three of the Big Four. And Colliers for over 10 years now, joined immediately following Janet Miller's leaving the chamber and deciding to run Colliers office. 

John Lowry 

And so you've done a lot in the commercial real estate space, but you've also been in sales. And commercial real estate, there is absolutely a sales element, but you've also done some just kind of direct sales work as well. 

Doug Ryan 

Yeah, for. And even some startup company I. Us in a startup venture that I did. My brother. That we exited with and and so you know what you find out in business is that you're always negotiating and especially in brokerage, you're negotiating in both directions with your client and with whoever you're negotiating against. 

John Lowry 

So let's talk a little bit about that for just a second. In terms of your recognition that you know everything is a negotiation, what was your motivation for wanting? 

Speaker 

Repeat. 

John Lowry 

To really enhance your negotiation skills, what was the opportunity that you saw there? 

Doug Ryan 

Well, it goes back to when I was running sales at interior design Services and Tom Foster had a relationship with Doctor Lowry and we were invited to take the management team over and do the course. Negotiation and conflict resolution and as a person running sales and a team of I don't know at the time, 1012 sales people, you're always looking for ways to improve. Your hit rate, you know. So if you're closing 5 of 100 deals or you're closing 85 of 100 deals, that makes a big difference. So what can you do to improve your your success rate? 

John Lowry 

And so you went through with a bunch of your colleagues at IDs the two day course. So that was really the investment. There was no homework up front. There was no final exam at the end. 

Doug Ryan 

Walked in blind. 

Speaker 

It. 

John Lowry 

Was really about. I've got to invest 2 days. And that two days can make a difference in terms of my career going forward. 

Doug Ryan 

Yeah, I think I mentioned, you know, I've been taking a lot of courses on a lot of subjects and that single course that two day course was the best subject matter. Learning experience I had on any subject at any university. 

John Lowry 

So what were some of the AHA moments for you coming out of that? 

Doug Ryan 

Well, see. It gets you out of your comfort zone because you have to negotiate in. It's not like you're learning, you know, and listening and and you're trying to apply the the, the things you learn yourself, you're actually then having to use them immediately in the core setting, and you're negotiating against your people who are also listening to the same information. And I think the the thing that was so interesting is. 

Speaker 

OK. 

Doug Ryan 

You know, you learned the whole X and. Everything is an X or an O and and how you approach that and I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit, but even more so the nuance of a negotiation. It's not always just. *** for tat, or black and white. What was great about the the in person negotiations that you guys set up were that I had different objectives than I expected. The other person to have I had. Expected them to have the opposite. Objections or things that they were trying to achieve and in reality, and this is true in life. You may not know what they're really their ultimate end game is. You know what you need to. They know what they need to get and so being able to do that dance and and figure out that, wow, they really weren't even going after what I thought they were going after. What they needed was something entirely different. And so going through that on a, you know, head to head basis over and over again and it's not like just going through the negotiation you guys would then make everybody say how it went and you plotted who won. How'd it? What went right? What went wrong? How many of the points did you get that? Gave you. It was amazing. 

John Lowry 

So that learning process that you just described, that that's the learning process, that is the the foundation of our course and you went through kind of a customized version which we do for a lot of different companies across the country. But we're also doing. An open enrollment version where people can come to Nashville, the next offering of this is April 29th and 30th, 2025. Called the negotiation made simple live workshop and I love what you describe because you just described what it's all about. And that is this whole notion of. Explaining and understanding really what the negotiation process is, and so the course isn't like 12 tracks, and if you do this 12 tracks every time like you'll be rich and happy and like that, those 12 tracks don't exist. 

Doug Ryan 

Note. 

John Lowry 

Instead, it's much deeper than that in terms of understanding the dynamics of the process that you have to manage in order to kind of move business forward and to get deals. But then in the context of kind of understanding that process, we highlight the strategic moments that. Require a decision to be made and an action to be taken and that decision and that action is very consequential if you get it right, then you're going to capture value or you're going to get a deal put together. If you get it wrong, you may mess the. 

Doug Ryan 

For sure. 

John Lowry 

And so we want people to be aware of those moments. And then in doing that, you also raise, which I think is really important, kind of the nuances and the people element. It's not just about. This is where when people say like, well, what's AI going to? Well, if it was literally about numbers, AI could probably come in and disrupt the whole thing. The reality is there's a human element too, and as a result of that. There are some things to really understand in terms of how people make decisions and kind. Motivates people to talk a little bit about how have you put the course to use and when I say the course you've actually been through it. How many Times Now? 3234 something like that, OK. 

Doug Ryan 

At least at least three times. At. And yet I pick up something new every. And it there's also a reminder of things that you just kind of naturally forget about as you're going through day-to-day 'cause. You, you, you said. And in brokerage in particular, you're negotiating in both directions because you're trying to get to a solution and the solutions can sometimes be very complicated. And as as the course deals with the stated objection isn't always the the real objection. So you need to uncover that going beneath below the line I think is Doctor Laura used to say. 

John Lowry 

Yeah, yeah. 

Doug Ryan 

And and so it's complicated and you can't rush the. It's the maybe the thing I took most away from the last time we were together. 

John Lowry 

OK. 

Doug Ryan 

As the economic conditions are tough and you know we're post. Deals are harder to get done. You want to rush, you want to do the absolute. The opposite that what needs to happen. A lot of uncertainty and you have to take more time with uncertainty and not rush the process. So in that last last go around I took, you know not rushing the process is the thing that I had to relearn and slow down. 

John Lowry 

Yeah, that's a really powerful. And the way we like to say it is you can't short circuit the dance like there is a a ritual to this in terms of people getting to a point to where they're ready to do the deal and. If you try to short circuit it, you'll end up paying for it in terms of whatever time that you save. Those are some great kind of aha moments. So what is? Over the two or three times that you've taken the course, what has been the one thing that you have found? You mentioned to several different points, but what's been the one that you found that has really made a difference in terms of? 

Doug Ryan 

Your success, I think distilling down to the concept of everything is an X or an 0. And so in a logical negotiation with, you know, very easily defined criteria on both sides, when someone starts a negotiation and and who starts, it is always, you know, interesting to to watch happen. Because you get different types of people with their different styles. But when you distill it down and this is true in our life, in our marriages, in our relationships with family members. You know, everything's an X or an O and an X is sort of an aggressive. Assertive approach and then the O was. Cooperative approach. Like, hey, how do we solve this issue? And so you can learn a lot about how something's going to go by watching whether an ax or an O is played initially. And then and then understanding how to deal with that. 

John Lowry 

Yeah. And all of that comes out of this game that we play called win as much as you can, which is a really fun game to play with a group of people. You learn a lot about people kind. 

Doug Ryan 

Yeah. 

John Lowry 

Playing this game, but again like this isn't just. Theory that we're communicating over PowerPoint like this is really interactive learning, but then out of those experiences. There's a lot of really valuable lessons like. You just described in terms of knowing when you need to be competitive and when you need to be cooperative. And as you mentioned, that's such a powerful point for people like that really becomes. The process of building relationships and you know, in some relationships you've got to be competitive or you're going to get exploited. But another. That's the last thing in the world you want to do because you've got someone right there. That is easy to work with. And so for business people in particular, and it applies to home and everything else as well. That's a really important skill set and a lot of people never even thought about it that way. 

Doug Ryan 

That's right. Yeah, absolutely. And I I feel like there is so much potential. In, you know, looking at it through this lens and knowing immediately, like recognizing it when it happens. It's kind of funny. You get this little smile in the back of your head. Like I see what's going on instantly, you know, and it makes it. It leads you to your next thing, which is like how do you get better at at responding and and sometimes you do the opposite. Sometimes you are competitive when you know, maybe in a more and O is offered, you know, a more cooperative. Situation and it all depends on the circumstances of what to do and but I think the most important thing that I've learned throughout business is that relationships matter. People matter in the long term and it doesn't do any good to win every negotiation. If they're not going to work with you in the future because they felt taken advantage of or whatever, so. You know, there's there's something about being. And advocating for either your position or your clients position. That allows you know, business negotiations to, you know, succeed. 

John Lowry 

Yeah. And so. We're talking about here is we're we're we're talking about some of the key lessons that come out of the negotiation made simple live workshop. What we're going to offer. Next, here in Nashville, April 29th and 30th, 2025, to register, you go to lowrygroup.net and that's where you are welcome to join a group of business people and professionals from around the country that are all coming to spend 2 days to think. How it is that they can take advantage? Doug's talking about and Doug, you reminded me of a story. A guy came up to me. Couple of months ago at my daughter's school and he had his phone and he showed me this picture of his phone. And his it was a picture of one of the X cards from the game that you described. 

Speaker 

Sure. 

John Lowry 

And it was sitting on a computer keyboard, this X card. And so he said, you want to know the. I was like absolutely, I want to know the story about the sex card. And he said, well, he said, you know, I work at this professional services firm and. Said we had this employee who was really difficult and finally he decided to leave and it was. It was a good thing and it was really tense in terms of him getting out the door and there was a lot of kind of drama around that. But he had. The course, along with the rest of us in terms of how to work through this and he says we were finally able to kind of negotiate a package. To get him out the door without, you know, any lawsuits or anything like that. But as he left, he cleaned out his office and he left us one thing. The one thing he left us was the X card sitting on his keyboard. 

Speaker 

I'm not sure. 

John Lowry 

Which was this this. This point that he was making about the fact that this was, you know, competitive in nature. Those X cards. Kind of play out, talk a little bit about. Do you have any examples or any stories to where you took something from the course and you put it to work and it made a difference either in advancing a relationship or putting a deal together? 

Doug Ryan 

Sure. I mean concept, you know, talk talking about specifics is tough. With, you know, clients and you know what the kind of deals that we work on and what we do. But one of the concepts. I thought. So helpful was and it's related to that rushing, rushing a deal or short circuiting the time it takes to go back and forth. But the thing that I remember and that I try to employ is also don't be afraid when you think the negotiation is done, that you've come to a place, quite frankly, you're willing to accept either for yourself or for your client. Don't be afraid to ask one more thing like let it play out one more round than you normally, and you'd be surprised what you get and I can't tell you how many times. That. Worked. Just being aware of where you are in the negotiation. You very quickly can get to terms where you think, hey, this is going to work for both sides of the deal, but then slowing yourself down going OK. Utah, myself in the client shoes. Is there anything else that I would want out of this, even though we're at a good deal where both sides are? To be happy at this moment. But is there one other thing that I can ask for or get? Might not be economic. You know, it could be a quality kind of determination. And so reminding myself to do that. And I've employed that many times. And gotten one more thing. And of course, you know, you can use it in your personal life too. You're buying a car or what? But pushing it one more time, and sometimes that's the most uncomfortable move in the entire thing is going that one more time. You think, am I going to ruin this relationship? By going one more time. 

Speaker 

Yeah. 

Doug Ryan 

But oftentimes it it works out and you get more than you ever thought you would. And leaving the negotiation and it's still intact in everybody's happy. With how they walked away. 

John Lowry 

Yeah, that's a great, great story. Great. Do you? Do you have any sense of if you were to try to put a a guess on? Your mindset and the way that you manage negotiation before investing in yourself and doing the training versus after having done the training, having gone through the course, you have any way to measure what the value has been? Financially or? 

Doug Ryan 

It's tough to. I know that I felt like I really had no. And you know, here's somebody like, I've got a master's degree. I've been through. Know. I know the. I've been successfully worked on many many deals and and structured things, even even negotiating, you know in Group. And team settings. But I feel like, you know, as you as you get older and you realize, you know, kind of. What's happening? And you're able to very quickly define the value of the negotiation. Maybe something we haven't talked about, but even having the ability to define, OK, what's at stake here and if if one person is at A and the other person's at C and we know we're going. Meet at B. You know, define that value a set of value to that and say OK, I should be good if I and end up you know B or a little bit better I should be OK with that. That and and sort of laying that out on the front end kind of keeps the emotion out of it. And when you get, you know, especially with, you know, difficult people that you're negotiating with that that all they have is is aggression and you know, competitiveness. And they're doing it for the sake of competition versus resolution per SE. Knowing the value of that, being able to identify that I think is probably. You know, increase my ability to keep my head lower, my stress on a qualitative basis, but also you know close more deals because you can keep the emotion out of it. You know what you're headed for and you're, you know, one of the things. That that I learned not from you guys, but I learned from my first mentor. And this was at Cushman and Wakefield in Detroit was you have to season the client as well. Your side to say, hey, this is what is typical, this is what market might be. Here's what we're going to do, communicating all that on the front end. Say I think we're going to end up somewhere. Are you good with? You know, sort of setting the framework ahead of time and then if you end up better, you're a. And if and if you don't get there, then there's usually some extenuating circumstance and and they're part of that process. And so they understand why, why you and then they can make the decision. Yeah, that's still a deal I want to do. It's. Let's go find something else. 

John Lowry 

Yeah. And so right there is a really important negotiation skill in terms of what you just described and it's all about just managing expectations and especially early in the process. That's something critical for people to accomplish, because if you don't manage expectations, then you can get to a place to where people say no to a good deal. And it's just because they don't understand what is a good deal and what isn't a good deal and substantively I. The word you use, they're not seasoned. They're not ready. To kind of be able to move forward and so that whole idea of managing expectations, we talk a lot about that in the course, especially around the opening offers, because that's where expectations get. Get managed. That's where the anchor gets dropped, as we say. And so it's been interesting to kind of hear you talk about that in the context of your commercial real estate negotiations and talk. To us a little. You you've been part of some of the largest commercial real estate deals in in Nashville. 

Doug Ryan 

Yeah, yeah. 

John Lowry 

Any of those that you can share with us publicly? 

Doug Ryan 

Here. Well, I just, you know, if there's a sign on the top of the building, there's there's probably a handful of people that had their hands in that deal. And I've had, you know, the benefit of being invol. 

Speaker 

Sure. 

Doug Ryan 

A number of those. I feel like. Every deal is different in every negotiation is different. I feel like, you know, we've had a situation in Nashville where it's been an amazing run of growth and not everybody loves that growth. Nobody likes the traffic that's come with it, but. I feel like we've got a better city for it and and so, you know, keeping that in perspective with what we're all trying to do, which is. You know, raise a family and and be have authentic quality work that you enjoy to do and you know for for what we do. It's I wouldn't do anything else having to do it all over again. I love what I do. I love working on complex big projects. You know, so. Specific deals are tough to talk about 'cause. There's so many people that are involved to take credit for anything is is nearly impossible because there's so many people you know from city officials to state officials to attorneys and accountants and architects and and the developers themselves, who are. And the tenants, I mean it's. It really is a very complex. People just read about it in the newspaper and they think, wow, this is. That's. I mean, how long is that man? You know, when we worked on national yards, for example. We started that in 2015 and didn't make our first deal until 2019 and that happened to be Amazon, sure. 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

Doug Ryan 

One, nobody knows that you've been working on that for four or five years, you know and. And many false starts and many companies you thought you were going to make a deal with. And then those blow up and then to have the resiliency to go. OK, back to the drawing board. Are we? Right. What are we doing wrong? Can we market this? There was a very distinct decision in the in the national yards where. We felt like. The project was complicated and it was too complicated. When users were coming to look at the site, they had other options that were kind of like pad ready, if you will. Sure. And national yards is a huge, you know 16. Acre massive development that needed new new sewers, new infrastructure, new power, new roads. Like for somebody to get their arms around that and their head around that and say, yeah, we'd like to go to national yards. That was a huge undertaking. When you're competing against. Other sites that might be readily. So there was a a key moment there where? National Yards decided to do the infrastructure improvements kind of at risk. Desk and it made suddenly. Immediately it made us Pat, ready like everyone else, and it took uncertainty away and. And so now they could just say, hey, do we want to be in this amazing development with all these other things, these other amenities and other companies are going? 

Speaker 

Hmm. 

Doug Ryan 

Be there. Or could we be over here by? And so that was kind of a, you know, a complex but fun but very long project. 

Speaker 

Sure. Bye. 

John Lowry 

Yeah. And that dynamic you just described is so true and so many business contexts. To. A business deal coming together is not the result of 1 negotiation. The result of dozens and dozens of those negotiations. May have to be very competitive because. You're arguing over who gets how much, and that's going to require more. But then in other cases with different parties and different stakeholders, you may have to be very cooperative. Because they have the power and you don't. So as a result of that, you got to play differently in order to get what you're looking to. 

Doug Ryan 

Get in the deal for sure, and it just spurred in my memory. You know, we represented Remington when they came in. And when they made the decision to move their. Here. It was between us and Austin. That's the other thing for people to recognize is that we compete against other cities at the same time. It's not just sites within, but it's other cities as well. But remember, made the decision to come to Nashville. They had full time jobs and the difference between Texas and here was that every county was a separate negotiation for them and they had sites across different counties. So they were going to have to negotiate a different deal in every county and not know what they had until. All of those negotiations were done, whereas in something that's been so successful for Nashville and I credit Janet Miller for a lot of that is a one stop shop. Come in. You talk to one group and they go out and get everything that you will need and they package it together. And you have a single negotiation. So I think that's two things I've said about reducing complexity. 

John Lowry 

Yeah, and and that really for people? You know, I call that, you know, taking the friction out of the deal. If you can take the friction out of the deal, then you're more likely to get to the deal and that becomes something that's really, really strategic. So. Through your experience and all the success that you've had, you've you've recognized kind of your negotiation skill as being critical to that for other folks that haven't invested like you have. What would be your recommendation to them in terms of how to build that negotiation skill set so they can experience similar success? 

Doug Ryan 

Yeah. I mean, obviously from a part of obviously just sign up for the course and take it, it'll be the best thing you've done. Is that an ongoing? What's great about about you and and Doctor Lowry in in the time he was still working? Actually, he's probably always still working. I mean, the guy never. But you know you have a long term relationship and I how many times have I come back to you over the years on unrelated things and just say, hey, help me in this moment. This one is I'm really struggling with and I I mean I've probably done that three or four times in those ten years. No question. 

John Lowry 

Lots of drinks. We've shared her challenges and problems and things like that. And and for me, that's that's really the joy of all of this. 

Doug Ryan 

Yeah, yeah. 

John Lowry 

The thing that I love to do most is, you know, to get to know people, to be able to provide them with some skills that are very. It's great fun watching them take those skills and go out and do those things, but the moments are also really special for me when people. Yeah, when I call. And they say, hey, I'm I'm working this deal. Trying to apply what you've taught. Can you coach me and can you help me? Is always absolutely like, let's sit down and let's talk, and that offer is not just for good friends like yourself, but it's for for everyone. Really what I hope that negotiation made simple is about for people. 

Doug Ryan 

I would encourage people like if you have any self-awareness at all to say, hey, I think I think I could get. 

Speaker 

Better. 

Doug Ryan 

If you have any kind of self-awareness at all, then and you recognize that you can improve and it can help you in every part aspect of your life. This is 1 area that I think is is really low hanging fruit and and you know dollar per invest. Is. You know tenfold. 

John Lowry 

So Doug Ryan, one of the movers and shakers in Nashville, TN with Colliers. Thanks so much for allowing me to be part of your journey and sharing and some of the difficult moments as well as some of the successful moments, but. 

Doug Ryan 

Thank you. Yeah. 

John Lowry 

Again, congratulations on all your success over the course of your career for the difference that you've made in this city and for allowing me to just be kind of a small part of. Journey. You bet. 

Doug Ryan 

Thanks for having me. 

John Lowry 

So the negotiation made simple live. I want to invite you personally to come and be part of this. We're going to offer it here next in Nashville, TN, April 29th and 30th, 2025. We've got folks that have already signed up from around the country. The course is filling up, so I encourage you to move quickly. In terms of registering the way to register is to go to lowrygroup.net. See everything on the homepage there about registering for the live workshop. Can click there. Right now, we've got some early bird pricing available. So normal price for this course is $2495 right now. The early bird is available until March, which is 1995 dollars. A pretty significant savings if you go ahead and sign up earlier rather than later. And then on top of that, we've got another deal available to wear of two or more people come from the same organization and they sign up at the same time. It was another 20% off that automatically is going to be taken off your registration fee. We want to encourage as many people as possible from different organizations to come, and so there's the opportunity to take advantage of that on top of. The early bird pricing that is available to you right now. So again, that's 1995. If you sign up for the course, the next couple of weeks. Allowinggroup.net is where you go to do so, and if you have any questions at all, I encourage you to reach out to Brittany Baumgartner. Her e-mail is brittany.brittany@lowrygroup.net, and if you'll just reach out to Brittany, she'll be glad to answer any questions you have. The last thing I want to share about this is we're doing this in Nashville. And so we have to provide a Nashville experience. Everyone that's coming and Doug knows the importance of that and all of his work as well. And so we have a really special Nashville experience that is awaiting the people that come and be part of this. Course. And so the evening of April 29th, instead of just sending people out to Broadway to have a good time. I'm sure some people will do. We have created an opportunity to go over to the Blackbird Studio in this little part of Nashville called Berry Hill. This studio is owned by John McBride, who is the husband of country music legend Martina McBride. And in this studio he has created some sound experiences that are absolutely unbelievable, like you have never had before. And he's got some master tracks of some incredible music, like Bohemian Rhapsody and Michael Jacksons thriller and. They're just unreal to experience those songs in this kind of studio. Where the music literally is bouncing off the walls and creating this incredible experience. And so we've got a private tour of the Blackbird studio where a lot of famous music has been made. We've got this musical experience waiting for folks, and so it's going to be a tremendously fun experience for everyone in addition to. The learning that will take place during the two days of April 29th and April 30th. 

Speaker 

So. 

John Lowry 

You'll sign up soon. Thanks so much for being with. Thank you all for listening to negotiation made simple.