029: Breaking into Brick-and-Mortar: Secrets to Expanding from Amazon to Retail

Ever wonder what it takes to break into the big leagues of retail from the crowded Amazon marketplace? Mike has walked that wholesale path with his pool cleaning tools, aiming for the shelves of Leslie's Pool Stores, and it's a journey rife with challenges and triumphs. This episode peels back the curtain on the push from online to brick-and-mortar, revealing the grit needed to tackle increased insurance requirements, warranty concerns, and the crucial role of agencies in retail placement. Plus, we'll unveil how such a move can inject new life into your revenue streams, even when Amazon's squeezing your profit margins.

Negotiating your way into favorable deals with manufacturers and retailers is an art, and we've got the insights to prove it. With the help of guest Ben Leonard, we dissect the negotiation game, showing you how to play it for better margins and solid relationships that stand the test of time. We don't stop there; we also explore the logistics labyrinth of the CPG industry and decode the hidden costs that can make or break your bottom line. The retail world is beckoning, and we're here to arm you with the strategies you need for a successful crossover.

Wrapping up, we serve you a masterclass in wholesale meeting prep and negotiation tactics. From making a powerful impact on retail buyers to the finesse of handling multiple contacts within the same organization, we share experiences and tips that could mean the difference between a deal sealed and a missed opportunity. Remember, a healthy profit margin isn't just nice to have—it's your business's lifeblood, and we're adamant about escaping the dreaded price wars. Join us for a session packed with advice, anecdotes, and actionable strategies that can fortify your brand's presence far beyond the realm of online sales.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome everyone to the Brand Fortress HQ podcast and another Amazon Tactics Tuesday. Today we're actually gonna be talking about something a little bit different. This is a follow-up to a previous episode where we talked about, you know, really stepping into wholesale in brick and mortar, and so this is one of the things that is another opportunity when we look at you know, fortifying your brand. Yes, amazon is a great platform and a great way to sell in e-commerce, but, as building up that reputation, one of the things that also gives you is the ability to branch out into other channels, and one of those channels is wholesale. So today I'm going to actually hand it over to Mike to give us a little bit of update on a previous episode that we did on his journey that he's going through in looking at wholesale his journey that he's going through in looking at wholesale.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Yeah, so we actually had another conversation just yesterday with the company that we're trying to get on the shelves of it's Leslie's Pool Stores. So we sell in case anybody hasn't seen previous episodes, we sell pool cleaning tools. It's an unlimited, free, lifetime replacement of anything we sell. That's the warranty. And so we have been trying to get on Leslie's shelves actually for quite a long time. I've contacted them multiple times.

Speaker 2: 1:15

I have an assistant, not assistant, she's actually my inventory manager, but she has in a previous life she worked for another company where she actually worked you know procuring, you know retail accounts to get on the shelf at these retail stores and whatnot. So she had some experience. She was trying to get over the Leslie's. Never really happened. So we ended up. So this might be the first piece of advice that I that I have for anybody, and that is we ended up hiring an agency that does this, like that's all they do is they get brands onto the shelves of retail stores and it's not cheap. But I would say at the same time, if we managed to get on the shelf here at Leslie's, it will have been well worth it. I mean easily it'll be worth the price that we paid.

Speaker 2: 1:58

And so, just kind of getting back to what happened, so our initial conversation was probably I don't know well it was actually just after I got to Puerto happened. So our initial conversation was probably I don't know well it was actually just after I got to Puerto Rico, so it's been seven weeks ago about. And that first conversation we had was with the head buyer for Leslie's, who indicated that he was very interested. At the end of that call he said we're almost positive that we want to move forward with this. We'll be getting back to you, yada, yada. And it took seven weeks for us to actually move to what we considered to be the next stage. And we were supposed to get the vendor docs because we have to fill out a whole bunch of documentation. There's a bunch of requirements that we have to be able to meet in order to actually sell to them. One of the things that we're going to have to do is increase the limits on the insurance that we have.

Speaker 2: 2:54

So Amazon requires that you have a certain level of business insurance. Leslie's is going to require that we have a stronger level and that we add them to it. So so they're covered, you know, in terms of selling our products. So that's something that we'll have to work through. But, interestingly, this conversation well, interestingly and frustratingly know who's under him and he handles the subcategory that we're in through pretty much all the same things that you know we ran through in that first conversation in terms of trying to, you know quell any fears you know over. You know the lifetime warranty and you know some of those things you know making the pitch for why it's a benefit to them. So at least for us, you know this lifetime unlimited replacement.

Speaker 2: 4:00

One of the things about a retail shop, of course, is most of the time you're looking for products that they can sell over and over again and pool rakes and brushes and poles and that sort of thing. That is exactly that kind of a product. It's not technically a consumable, but they generally wear out within a couple of seasons and somebody's packed to buy another one. So offering a product that has an unlimited free replacement warranty is a little bit scary on their side. But the argument that we made is essentially well, if you do it right, you know like you'll have them coming back, because what we'll do is we'll have them come to you for the warranty replacements. You can actually do parts replacements for people to contact us and maybe wait, you know, four or five or six days for the product to show up. They can just walk into a Leslie's and an hour later you know or less.

Speaker 2: 4:49

You know they've got, you know, their item either repaired with a new part or they've got the new item and so you know they have a way to get that person back into the store regularly and they can still sell other items to them and certainly the markup on our product is going to be good. So that was a little frustrating that we're kind of running through that conversation again, but there still seems to be a fair amount of interest. We'll see where it goes and whether we get on the shelf. But Leslie's has 1,000 stores across the US and so one of the things that we're looking at just to kind of give a little bit of a big picture here, things that you know we're looking at just to kind of give a little bit of big picture here. So we sell right now we're at about 5 million in revenue. We're hoping that we can manage to hit 10 million in revenue this year, but 5 million was last year.

Speaker 1: 5:38

So the interesting thing is is that selling on Amazon?

Speaker 2: 5:42

anybody, I would imagine, probably recognizes how much our profit margins are coming down as we're selling on the platform just because fees continue to climb, competition continues to grow, and so what used to be, you know we we would oftentimes sell, you know, after all expenses, you know we might have a 30% profit margin, you know, across the board, whereas now we're about 15%, which is not horrible. It's not terrific, but it's not horrible. But going to Leslie's, the interesting thing is is that the price point that we sell at because we sell at about five times our COGS, slightly more than that in some cases, but roughly five times our COGS we actually have enough margin that we can offer the discount that the retailer is going to want in order to put us on the shelf. Now, every category probably is a little different, every store maybe is a little different, but in the case of Leslie's, we're offering a. If they were purchasing at the high end, you know, in terms of the volume tiers that we set up in terms of pricing, they would receive about a 45 percent discount off of retail.

Speaker 2: 6:52

What's neat about that, though, is if they place a million dollar order with us, which is essentially a thousand dollars of product per store, which is hardly anything Right. So they place a million dollar order with us. We would actually make about $550,000 on that order. Now, looking at that from a percentage standpoint, I mean that's massive. We're over 50% in terms of what we would make on that sale, and once we've got the account, it's just more or less taking orders right. So it's so much easier, you know, than trying to work Amazon, and the profit margin is considerably more. But the only reason that that's true is because of the margins that we already have built into our product. And so I would say, if you want to get on retail, make sure you're not starting out with a product that has a really slim margin, because they're going to want a pretty significant discount off your retail price and if you're going to give them that discount, you know you got to still make money on it. So if you want retail, you got to have the margin.

Speaker 1: 7:53

Yeah, a couple of things that I heard you say that I just want to kind of double click on. The first is is that just where your brand is at, I think you know, really helps open that door? So brands that may be, you know, kind of low to mid six figures. First of all, finding an agency to help you get into brick and mortar is a great idea because they've got all the you know, they've got a good shop, it's got a lot of connections, they understand how to pitch your product in a way that the buyers are going to want to hear and those types of things. But if you're on the smaller end, you're probably not ready for brick and mortar yet, because most of those agencies that are good are not going to take you until you're at least mid six figures, if not seven figures, just because there's not enough, the product isn't proven enough, there's not enough meat on the bone. You know there's a number of different reasons why a good agency in a lot of cases won't take products that are super early. Um, so that's the one thing I think, just for people that are listening, to keep in mind. Um, and then the other one is, you know, really thinking about and I just want to, you know, foot stomp that piece on on the margins, which is, if you've got slim margins on Amazon and you don't have enough margin already built into your product, um, like you said, wholesale can be fantastic.

Speaker 1: 9:24

Like you said, wholesale can be fantastic but depending on what category your product is in, you not only have the retailer that you're selling it to that wants a discount, because of course they've got to make money, but you may also have a distributor in there as well that is going to take another 15 to 25%. So you do need to make sure that you've got some healthy margins in order to do that. And, depending again on the category, it may be a matter of I get that margin by having so much more volume, because if I'm selling a you know a million dollars worth of that product, I'm able to put it in a much larger order with my manufacturer and I may be able to negotiate with that manufacturer to say, hey, if I put in an order for you know a hundred thousand units instead of my regular 10,000 units, um, can you bring down the price enough in order to you know for me, as the business, to maintain my margin level while at the same time giving a chunk to um the retailer and possibly even the distributor to kind of make everybody happy. So there's some different ways to work that. But I think at the end of the day, you know, being closer to that seven figures in a lot of cases at least we start looking at the bigger.

Speaker 1: 10:35

Brick and mortar is where you're probably going to see more success. If you're at, you know 50,000 or 100,000, know 50,000 or a hundred thousand um you know annual revenue on a handful of products. Going the brick and mortar route um might be very challenging.

Speaker 2: 10:54

Yeah, yeah, I would say it's um, you know the other thing that you mentioned, you know in terms of, like, negotiating with your supplier. And I think one other piece to pay attention to is and, to be honest, it hadn't even occurred to me until just this moment and that is that you could be in a position where you can negotiate down your price across the board for whatever product you're buying from them, Because you know if you can, depending on how much you might be able to increase. You know your volume.

Speaker 1: 11:26

I mean it's possible.

Speaker 2: 11:27

it's actually very possible.

Speaker 2: 11:29

You know, if this deal with Leslie's goes well, you know it might not be year one, but maybe year two, you know, or so you know it's possible we could be looking at two or three million dollar.

Speaker 2: 11:40

You know orders, you know or at least seasons for sure with Leslie's, and so when you look at that, you know the amount of volume that that could add to our overall annual volume in terms of what we're purchasing from a supplier would be significant, and so you might be able to go to the supplier and say, hey, I'd like an across the board discount on everything that I buy because my overall volume is so high, which means then you've got better margin on your Amazon sales too.

Speaker 2: 12:06

So you know, moving into retail does open up a lot of doors. The other thing that we're looking at that I think is going to be super helpful to us is that you know, when you get into retail, you hit number one a brand new market of a lot of people who maybe don't do a whole lot of buying online and buy mostly, maybe, locally, but at the same time, you are going to get people who are going into the local store, seeing your product there and doing brand searches for you online, which is going to increase your brand search on Google. It's going to increase your brand search on Amazon which, overall, should improve your rankings to some degree.

Speaker 2: 12:41

It's difficult to say to how much, but it can't hurt, right?

Speaker 1: 12:45

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I ran a CPG brand, how I looked at it was any product that I could get on the shelf. Like, yeah, I want to make money on that product, but at the same time it's also free advertising. Yeah, after that they order off of Amazon because they want to get it in two days. They don't want to stop by the store or whatever you know. Or they're like, hey, this thing is amazing, and they recommend it to their brother, mother, cousin, whatever it happens to be, and it makes it easy for them to just, you know, buy it off of Amazon, because maybe they don't have that store. You know nearby where that family member or friend lives. So, yeah, I mean, it is a good source of advertising as well.

Speaker 1: 13:30

I am curious.

Speaker 1: 13:31

So one of the things and you know, steer me in a different direction if you're not quite ready to talk about this piece of it yet but I am curious about the logistics piece of it, because one of the things that's tricky in the CPG world, especially when you're talking about food products, is there's a couple of dominant players, especially within distribution, and, quite frankly, they won't tell you what your finalized price is for moving product, and so it can be very hard for brands because you know they might quote you a price but then they'll be like, well, if it doesn't sell, then you got to buy it back.

Speaker 1: 14:06

And you know, if we don't have the truck space and it ends up staying in our warehouse for an extra 30 days, we charge you for that and there's just a lot of other charges that you end up getting nickel and dime to death. And I've definitely known some brands that you know they sell a million dollars, you know multi-million dollars in brick and mortar and they essentially break even on that and they make money off of their own website and Amazon because of all the nickel and diming from some of the distributors out there that are just especially the bigger ones.

Speaker 1: 14:35

That can be absolutely brutal to mom and pop businesses.

Speaker 3: 14:40

Yeah, for sure To add to that, mike, and I'm curious. I'm curious for you from your standpoint. You said that your margins were better or would be better in this wholesale type of an arrangement. But what is your, what is your cost in terms of fulfillment? Is that also less because you're fulfilling an order, a PO, basically to a wholesale supplier, like there's less moving pieces to that type of product that you're selling to them, right? So your margins are at the bottom line, but is it also less work to get it to them?

Speaker 2: 15:12

It depends on the scenario. So, for with this particular account, at least everything that we know thus far suggests that they're willing to simply take a volume shipment directly to their distribution warehouse and then they'll send it out from there, directly to their distribution warehouse and then they'll send it out from there. However, pool Corp is another company that we have had conversations with them and we're actually going to sit down with them again, hopefully, fingers crossed. But our previous conversation was one in which, essentially, they wanted us to individually work with their stores, so we weren't taking one single volume order, we were having to deal with the individual stores themselves and logistically that was just never going to work. You know, there was no way we were going to do that. We don't have the manpower for it, it wasn't worth it. So I would say you know, we've only dealt with two retailers, so I can't say what you know what would be the most common scenario. But I can say that we have seen both scenarios as options and for us the only one that made sense was volume shipment to a distribution warehouse, which, fortunately, it sounds like Puzzy's is open to do. So you know, that's kind of where we are right now.

Speaker 2: 16:25

But back to something that John was mentioning a second ago.

Speaker 2: 16:43

But back to something that John was mentioning a second ago.

Speaker 2: 16:46

So one of the things that and I won't mention branded scenario, where their brand and our brand is on it and it's going to be rebadged, it's going to be in our colors and whatnot, and it'll have the lifetime warranty because it's a patented product and we would like to be able to sell it to the portion of our customer base that wants it.

Speaker 2: 17:05

But because it's patented, we're going to do this dual branding scenario. But back to the point is that they also sold to Leslie's in the past and they ended up having to pull back out of that scenario because they couldn't, the margins weren't big enough and the terms weren't good enough. So, in other words, the deal that they had negotiated, you know, they didn't have the margin that they thought, and my guess would be, john, that part of the reason for that is probably because some of those additional components came into play that maybe they weren't considering or didn't expect to be as big an expense as it was, and so, like returns and product that didn't sell, or you know things like that, and so their margins were just razor thin.

Speaker 2: 17:51

And then, to top it off, it was 90 day terms, and so, you know, at that point they were bringing in from China, and so, you know it, just it was killing them because they had they didn't have 90 day terms with their manufacturer, of course, but they were, you know. But but Leslie's said 90 day terms with them, and so they didn't have the cashflow that they needed. So finally, they just stopped. And so it's one of the. It's another reason why I'm going to continue to to just holler this as much as I can, and that is, make sure you've got good margins before you ever pursue this direction, because you know volume is great, you know, but when, when your margins are razor thin, like that, you know volume is great, you know. But when, when your margins are razor thin, like that, you know it doesn't take much to topple.

Speaker 2: 18:32

You know a business that's dealing on, you know, razor thin margins, but if you've got large margins, then you've got room to wiggle. You've got room so that if some of those things happen. You know you've got product that doesn't sell, or whatever. You can afford to cover that. If you have to, you might even be able to accept 90-day terms and still pull it off. I would also say make sure, though, that you've done all that you can to get better terms out of your suppliers, or that you're using some of these new services that give you an opportunity to pay suppliers with a credit card or on financing or something, so that you can back that payment off, say for 60 days or so, rather than having to pay at the point of shipping.

Speaker 1: 19:11

Yeah, and I would really encourage people to listen to the episode with Ben Leonard, because he actually goes pretty in-depth on negotiating with your suppliers and has some amazing tips in there. So, from that perspective, I'd encourage listeners to go back to that episode and listen to his tips there, because he had some really good information on how to negotiate with those suppliers. The other thing I would be curious, because some of this is from my previous experience with this when you're working with any sort of supplier, what I recommend is uh, or a buyer I mean, you're kind of vetting them just as much as they're vetting you Um. So really make sure that you pay attention to, you know, all the fine prints, um, because otherwise you could end up in a situation where, like you said, you know not only do you have 90 day terms on the product that sells, but then you end up you know product doesn't sell for some reason. Then you know, not only do you have 90 day terms on the product that sells, but then you end up you know product doesn't sell for some reason. Then you know, now you got to, you paid not only to get it to that retailer, they sat on it for, you know, three, six months or whatever. And now you've got to, essentially, you know, pay to ship that product back to you. Then you got to figure out you know how to liquidate it and you know refund that uh, uh, big retailer, et cetera, et cetera, right, um, it can. It can get pretty messy, um, and so you know.

Speaker 1: 20:41

The other thing that I would just encourage you know, folks that are interested in going down this route is having that discussion with the buyer saying, hey, you know what does success look like for a brand on your shelf, like how many units, you know, based on our price point, do you expect that we'd be selling in a week or a month?

Speaker 1: 20:59

You know what do successful brands do in order to kind of launch their product in your stores, product in your in your stores.

Speaker 1: 21:09

Because the other thing is is that you know, having that relationship with them is really important to getting that information up front, so that way you can be successful, cause I will say that the only thing getting into stores is great, but it is a whole nother ballgame to stay on the shelf and actually have that product sell through.

Speaker 1: 21:32

And you do, you know, I think we talked about this in the last episode. But you do want to make sure that you have a plan in place to promote that you know within a retailer, just like you would launching a new product on Amazon, because you know if, like you said, it's fantastic if you've got customers that are now buying from that retailer, where essentially it's mailbox money Once you kind of figure out to get that product to move on the shelf. But if it doesn't, in a lot of cases that retailer is not going to give you a second chance and sometimes just having you know a handful of ideas of how you're going to launch the product and how you're going to promote it to get that initial traction is enough to be successful in that retail environment to really sustain that brand, your brand. So that way you can have that as a reliable additional sales channel have that as a reliable additional sales channel.

Speaker 3: 22:32

So, Mike, it feels like this type of going, this route, is very relationship-based and I think that after that first call that you had with the senior buyer or the head of buying, you said it went really well. But then you had another meeting with a more junior buyer that was more specifically in that subcategory. Do you think that there's anything that you could have done differently in that first meeting to either mitigate the risk of having to repeat yourself to someone else or like any any any lessons that you learned in that process that maybe could have made that process a little bit better for you and for them not having to go through the same thing twice?

Speaker 2: 23:09

You know, I don't know if there's anything that we necessarily could have done in the first meeting to have avoided that scenario, but what I would say is a recognize that's a possibility. It hadn't even occurred to me that that was a likelihood, that we would end up in that scenario B. Once you realize that that's the scenario and we technically knew that we were, that we were getting, you know, passed off to the to the more junior buyer, you know, probably three weeks ago, I would say that at that point it it would have been to my benefit, most likely, to try and make more direct connection with that buyer prior to this call and maybe make sure that he was up to speed on what had already been discussed. You know what. You know what we've kind of outlined in that conversation. You know, whatever you know that probably would have helped to speed this process along instead of basically kind of repeating that conversation again. You know, recognize that.

Speaker 2: 24:16

You know there's a chance that you run into a scenario where you know the senior buyer has been with Leslie's for quite a long time. This junior buyer has been with them for about a year and I mean he seems like a good guy. He's been in the. He's been a buyer for someone for quite a long time, so he knows the game. You know like he's not he's not a rookie, but he is a rookie with with Leslie's, and so that kind of you know it does box you into a corner a little bit, you know, as the buyer, because you kind of feel like you have to be really, you know, really careful. You know like your job's kind of on the line.

Speaker 2: 24:52

You know you bring on a product like this, that's. You know you bring on a product like this, that's. You know again, it's it's a lifetime guarantee. You know that's a different kind of a product than what they normally sell, you know. So he's got to really dot his I's and cross his T's. So you know it's going to be no-transcript much further behind the eight ball, which wouldn't be a big deal, except we're so seasonal. You know like we're we're going to miss half the season. You know, before we could even begin to get product to them at this point, just because of where we are.

Speaker 1: 25:36

Yeah Well, and I mean I, from the buyer's perspective too. I would just add you know, if you think about it, put yourself in their shoes for a second. I mean, they're having these, you know, calls and meetings day in and day out and you're probably, you know, the third product they talked to that day and probably the hundredth product that they're going to talk to this month. Um, and you know, I think just having the right expectations of going in and uh into it. As far as you know, you are one of many, many products and brands that they're talking to to see what's the best fit for that.

Speaker 2: 26:13

You know very limited shelf space that they have to see what's the best fit for that, you know, very limited shelf space that they have.

Speaker 2: 26:20

And try not to be, and try not to be just one of many, right, like I mean, try to be a standout, you know, like I mean I think that's, if there's nothing else that I would take away from that and from this process is, you know, don't be just another me too, out of the hundred that he's going to talk to this month, you know, because otherwise the chances of a you, you even getting another meeting with them or be getting on the shelf is probably pretty slim. So, you know, making sure a that you've got a really good differentiator for your product, because if you're really just another me too yeah, maybe you get on the shelf, you know, but then, you know, do you actually sell? You know, if you're a me too, if they've already got five products you know on the shelf of that type and you're just another me too, then the only thing you really got to do is compete on price and then again it's a race to the bottom.

Speaker 1: 27:02

you know, is your product actually going to sell and if it, doesn't, then here we are.

Speaker 2: 27:06

You know like you're buying the product back and you're shipping it back and you're doing whatever. You're going to differentiate. You know, make sure you have a solid brand, you have some serious USP versus other brands in your category so that you do stand out among those hundred that he's going to see this month and maybe he chooses you to be the one on the shelf.

Speaker 1: 27:42

Understanding how the wholesale process works, understanding, being responsive to what they need and kind of anticipating what they're going to be looking for in that process. Because, again, I hate to say it, but they're talking with 100 brands a month and the reality of it is that probably 50, 60, 70 of those aren't very organized. Probably, you know, 50, 60, 70 of those aren't very organized. And you know, just having your blocking and tackling, if you can combine that with exactly what you're talking about, mike, of having a, you know, a really strong, unique selling proposition, you're already ahead of the game. You know, and you're going to beat out 95 out of those hundred people that they talked to that month.

Speaker 2: 28:14

Yeah for sure. I think too that one of the one of the benefits of of going with the agency you know route as opposed to trying to pull it off yourself, is you know. Back on that same point. You know like they know how to talk to that buyer, they know the things that buyer is going to want to know, they know the things that you're going to have to do, and so they can walk you through that process in a such a way that at least when you're having those conversations with the buyer, you don't sound like a complete idiot.

Speaker 2: 28:40

You know, because one of two things is going to happen in that scenario. If you do sound like you have no idea what you're talking about and you've never done this before you know either a they're going to decide not to work with you at all because you don't know what you're doing and your product is another me too, it's just like everybody else, so why would we choose you? Or B you do have an actual differentiator and you are something that they want to put on the shelf, but they recognize that you don't know what you're doing and so you open the door to potentially being really taken advantage of in that scenario because they assume you don't know, because you probably don't, and things are going to happen that you're not going to recognize and all of a sudden you're in a hole.

Speaker 2: 29:19

And I'm not saying it's going to do that. You know, I mean they seem like a pretty straightforward company, but but the reality is there certainly are buyers out there who would if they thought they could.

Speaker 1: 29:29

So Well, it may not be intentional either. I mean, at the end of the day, you know they don't know exactly what your margins are, what your processes are, you know all those types of things. They don't know your business as well as you do so, and the buyer works for the company. So they're going to make sure that you know their interests are taken care of first. And it may not be intentional, but it may be something where, if you're not you know, if you don't really know your numbers or you know what's all involved, you may be committing yourself to selling a ton of product at a loss. Yeah for sure.

Speaker 3: 30:02

Yeah, you have to be prepared to negotiate. That's one of those skills that you have to. That'll take you far in life in a lot of different places is being able to negotiate, and that's certainly one of them. I mean, if they sense any sort of weakness going into that conversation, it's it's their job to take advantage of that and get the best deal for the company, because they work for the company and their goal is to get. Their job is to get the product for as cheap as they can.

Speaker 1: 30:27

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, again, think about it from that buyer's perspective. I mean, their job is challenging enough of finding you know products that are going to sell on the shelf. The last thing that they want to do is have to you know train another, or you know train another brand and how to sell. You know how to do their job and how to sell that you know.

Speaker 2: 30:51

I mean, like you said you're, you're one of a hundred brands they're going to talk to this month, if not more. You know they, they don't have the time for that. You know that's, no matter how much they might like your product, they're not going to want to be put through through the ringer like that. If you, if they bring somebody in that they think knows what they're doing, you know that's your's the kind of stuff that we're learning as we go.

Speaker 2: 31:09

I've never done it before so you know I'm I'm pretty much a newbie at this, so uh, but you know, as the as the process progresses, you know I'm happy to to discuss it as we learn new things and kind of walk people through that process.

Speaker 1: 31:28

Okay, yeah. I think this is fantastic for, you know, listeners, especially as they think about adding new channels. So, being a Tactics Tuesday episode, what's maybe one big takeaway that you'd give for listeners, as they're thinking about kind of brick and mortar and going the wholesale route?

Speaker 2: 31:49

I honestly could not give a better takeaway than one that we harp on constantly, but that is margins. You know you, you gotta be selling at a premium price point. Don't be fighting, you know, for the lowest price in your category because, you know you, you just limit yourself too much. There's too many things that can happen, that can put you out of business and it certainly puts you in a position where retail is not really an option, and I would also say this. So moving into retail is a stepping stone, like if you're looking at a potential exit for your business. You know, like if you're already on the shelf at retail and you, like you said, if it's money in the mailbox, right, like you've already set up their relationship, they're already buying product. Like for a buyer, that's gold because that's guaranteed money. Essentially, you know, as long as they maintain that account and they don't screw something up, that's money they can count on coming in the door. You know, every single month so it adds to your valuation to be able to get onto the retail.

Speaker 2: 32:46

You know shelves and if you get on one store, there's a chance, a pretty good chance you can get on to other store shelves because that's the proof. Right here. We're already in this store. They're just like you, they're selling product. You know why can't we be on your shelf too? So you know. And so going backwards, margin is key. You know, if you've got that margin, you have that door open to you. If you don't have the margin, the door is closed.

Speaker 1: 33:10

All right, yeah, I think that's a good takeaway for our listeners, matt. Anything else that you want to add before we wrap up?

Speaker 3: 33:18

No, I mean, I love how we always end up on the same roads almost at the end of every episode. And having you know, margins, I like my margins big and I hate the race to the bottom, and so this is just another argument for that case.

Speaker 1: 33:34

All right, well, thank you everybody for listening to this. So All right, well, thank you everybody for listening to this. Amazon tactics Tuesday. Today we cover something a little bit different. Talking about wholesale and Mike, I appreciate you sharing that journey, and listeners out there, you know, be thinking about how you can improve your margins, as that is a huge strategic advantage as you look at fortifying your brand, whether it be on Amazon, or you start reaching out into some of these other channels like brick and mortar.