Tack Box Talk

Spanish Mustangs: The story of a rare breed doing big things

Kris Hiney, Betsy Greene, Stephanie Hayes Season 6 Episode 146

Send us a text

Dr. Betsy Greene, University of Arizona, and Stephanie Hays, founder of the Center for America's First Horse, share how they came together to showcase this rare breed to others.  The Spanish mustang, not to be confused with wild mustangs, is a rare breed with much to offer.  We also learn how American Paint Horses pitched in to portray these horses in Hidalgo!

Center for America's First Horse

00:07:41.350 --> 00:08:06.540

Kris Hiney: welcome to extension horses, tack, box, talk series horse stories with a purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Kris Hiney, with Oklahoma State University. And today we're going to be talking about something a little different and talking about a unique breed of horse and somebody that's been heavily involved in that. But 1st we're going to invite back to the program Dr. Betsy Green, from the University of Arizona. Welcome back, Betsy.

 

96

00:08:06.540 --> 00:08:07.980

betsygreene@arizona.edu: Thank you. Great to be here.

 

97

00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:14.770

Kris Hiney: And 1st time guest to the program and founder for the center for America's 1st horse.

 

98

00:08:14.820 --> 00:08:17.309

Kris Hiney: Stephanie Hayes. So welcome, Stephanie.

 

99

00:08:17.690 --> 00:08:19.840

Stephanie Hayes: Well, thank you. Glad to be here.

 

100

00:08:20.370 --> 00:08:34.480

Kris Hiney: So we got to start with a little bit of a background. How Betsy and Stephanie, how you guys kind of got connected. So give us a little bit of backstory before we start jumping into talking about the center.

 

101

00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:50.519

betsygreene@arizona.edu: Sure. Yeah, we in Vermont. When I was at the University of Vermont, I was there about 16 years back, in 2,004. We several of us were working together to put on a 2 day educational event with trade show called everything equine.

 

102

00:08:50.520 --> 00:09:14.349

betsygreene@arizona.edu: and so we had classrooms and a round pen type size inside, and then an arena as well. And somehow, somewhere along the lines, I guess perhaps, I read a newspaper article or something, and we had found out we had a movie star horse in our own little area, one of the horses that did some of the really cool scenes back from Hildalgo.

 

103

00:09:14.530 --> 00:09:16.100

betsygreene@arizona.edu: and so.

 

104

00:09:16.100 --> 00:09:17.290

Kris Hiney: With Vito.

 

105

00:09:17.630 --> 00:09:42.952

betsygreene@arizona.edu: That was a yeah. That was a while ago. And so I guess, between myself and Tom Audi, who helped, was on the trade show side of things. We contacted Stephanie and John Fusco, the director, and to see if we could get this movie Star horse to be a highlight at our little event, and I think I don't remember Stephanie. Did Oscar give any

 

106

00:09:43.630 --> 00:09:53.269

betsygreene@arizona.edu: signatures or autographs? I know John did, but that was plus a win-win, we thought, and then Stephanie was the one working with

 

107

00:09:53.490 --> 00:09:57.269

betsygreene@arizona.edu: Oscar the Star, one of the stars of Hidalgo.

 

108

00:09:58.663 --> 00:10:09.090

Stephanie Hayes: Yes, actually, Oscar did give autographs. We would pick up his front foot and brush paint

 

109

00:10:09.290 --> 00:10:20.629

Stephanie Hayes: on the bottom of his foot, and with a helper. He would then step on a 8 by 10 photograph that we had printed of him.

 

110

00:10:20.650 --> 00:10:34.180

Stephanie Hayes: and that was that was his signature. And at the time he was a well-known movie star, and people were really excited not only to meet him, but

 

111

00:10:34.250 --> 00:10:37.772

Stephanie Hayes: to get his autograph and

 

112

00:10:38.710 --> 00:10:46.310

Stephanie Hayes: My daughter. Tori owned him at that point, and she was, I think, 12 years old.

 

113

00:10:46.420 --> 00:10:51.700

Stephanie Hayes: 1213. And she just loved talking to people about

 

114

00:10:51.820 --> 00:11:00.199

Stephanie Hayes: about Oscar and the movie, and then his portrayal of a Spanish mustang, which is how this

 

115

00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:01.560

Stephanie Hayes: kind of gets.

 

116

00:11:01.910 --> 00:11:11.569

Kris Hiney: So which parts so. And it's been a while since I watched hidog all. But it was a it was a great movie. So which parts were Oscar in the movie.

 

117

00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:19.730

Stephanie Hayes: Oscar played all of the scenes that were very athletic. He was the horse that

 

118

00:11:19.850 --> 00:11:25.660

Stephanie Hayes: Vigo and the Princess rode double and jumped over the ruins.

 

119

00:11:25.750 --> 00:11:37.669

Stephanie Hayes: He was the horse that was galloping alongside the Englishman's horse in the very opening scene. Anything that had long galloping scenes or jumping was Oscar.

 

120

00:11:37.670 --> 00:11:41.355

Kris Hiney: Okay. Well, I'm gonna have to go back and watch now.

 

121

00:11:41.690 --> 00:11:47.570

betsygreene@arizona.edu: And the funny part was, he was just a regular old gelding at our site.

 

122

00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:48.290

Stephanie Hayes: Yeah.

 

123

00:11:49.020 --> 00:12:08.180

Kris Hiney: That's funny. So and I might be getting a little off the track, but it's interesting. And so who cares? So I've always heard that Viggo really got attached to all of the horses that he worked with like hidalgo and lord of the rings, so did he like really like all of the horses, or were there certain ones that he was like really a fan of.

 

124

00:12:08.980 --> 00:12:14.749

Stephanie Hayes: There were 5 horses that played hidalgo, and he actually brought

 

125

00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:19.479

Stephanie Hayes: back to his farm the horse that he did all of the

 

126

00:12:19.610 --> 00:12:25.463

Stephanie Hayes: like the up close portrait, you know, kind of like touchy, feely scenes with,

 

127

00:12:26.350 --> 00:12:32.119

Stephanie Hayes: that was his favorite. And yeah, he ended up with Vigo.

 

128

00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:52.690

Kris Hiney: That's very cool. So I don't know if we're supposed to just keep talking about movie horses, but because that's kind of fun. But maybe we'll ask one more question, and then we'll get to talk about why, maybe he was in it. So how on earth did your horse end up being cast as a horse for a Hollywood movie.

 

129

00:12:53.400 --> 00:13:09.190

Stephanie Hayes: Well, he wasn't our horse when he was cast. What I know from John, who wrote the movie was that Oscar had belonged to a young girl, and he was on the American Paint Horse Show Circuit.

 

130

00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:15.910

Stephanie Hayes: and when they were looking for horses to play Hidalgo

 

131

00:13:16.843 --> 00:13:30.929

Stephanie Hayes: they all had to have similar markings and certain age and height and some training. So they purchased him from this this other family

 

132

00:13:31.468 --> 00:13:42.501

Stephanie Hayes: he spent 9 months on the movie set, and then John brought him to his farm in Vermont, and it was at that point, that my

 

133

00:13:43.400 --> 00:13:52.561

Stephanie Hayes: my daughters and I were involved at John's farm. I I managed his other horses there, and

 

134

00:13:53.080 --> 00:14:03.779

Stephanie Hayes: my daughter Tori and Oscar really bonded, and Oscar was in retirement, and John gifted Oscar to my daughter.

 

135

00:14:04.050 --> 00:14:04.590

Kris Hiney: Gotcha.

 

136

00:14:04.590 --> 00:14:12.690

Stephanie Hayes: So that's how that all happened. And we spent the next gosh! Probably

 

137

00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:18.929

Stephanie Hayes: 5 4 or 5 years. Bringing Oscar

 

138

00:14:19.950 --> 00:14:28.800

Stephanie Hayes: around with us to promote the Spanish mustang. So, although Oscar wasn't a Spanish mustang, he was a really good actor.

 

139

00:14:29.366 --> 00:14:30.120

Kris Hiney: I was.

 

140

00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.029

Kris Hiney: Ask if you said APHA, and I was like, wait.

 

141

00:14:33.410 --> 00:14:35.590

Stephanie Hayes: I'm getting real confused here.

 

142

00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:51.170

Stephanie Hayes: Yeah, yeah. So they couldn't use actual Spanish mustangs for the movie, because one, there's not enough of them that met the requirement for what the crew needed, and the movie horse trainer hadn't

 

143

00:14:51.210 --> 00:14:59.160

Stephanie Hayes: really had experience training Spanish mustangs and didn't know their train ability. So they went with what was safe.

 

144

00:15:00.082 --> 00:15:02.899

Stephanie Hayes: And that was the all the paint horses.

 

145

00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:11.179

Kris Hiney: Okay? All right. So now we're going to talk a little bit about the center for America's 1st horse. And so you're talking

 

146

00:15:11.250 --> 00:15:27.090

Kris Hiney: Spanish mustangs which I mean, are we talking about like the Kiger mustangs? Or is that a whole different category of mustangs? So maybe explain who we're talking about, because then we're also gonna talk about Spanish barb. So start.

 

147

00:15:27.090 --> 00:15:28.400

Kris Hiney: yeah, start me out.

 

148

00:15:28.400 --> 00:15:30.258

Kris Hiney: What the heck that is.

 

149

00:15:30.630 --> 00:15:31.405

Stephanie Hayes: Okay?

 

150

00:15:32.330 --> 00:15:54.560

Stephanie Hayes: So the Kigers don't fall in the category of the Spanish mustangs because they're known to have other breeds influenced in those herds. So the word Spanish mustang and Spanish barb. It is the same horse. It just kind of depends on what registry

 

151

00:15:54.830 --> 00:16:03.830

Stephanie Hayes: you are talking to, and some you know, very old breeders or 1st preservationists.

 

152

00:16:04.770 --> 00:16:09.409

Stephanie Hayes: chose to call them barbs, and some chose to call them mustangs.

 

153

00:16:09.712 --> 00:16:12.430

Kris Hiney: So so we're not talking about BLM, horses here.

 

154

00:16:12.430 --> 00:16:17.150

Stephanie Hayes: We are not talking about BLM, horses at all. Okay, all.

 

155

00:16:17.150 --> 00:16:27.050

Stephanie Hayes: And that that's really the 1st thing in my education. It's like a a little dilemma is.

 

156

00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:32.819

Kris Hiney: You hear the word mustang. You just think they're the wild horses out West are being rounded up and adopted

 

157

00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:33.950

Kris Hiney: right and.

 

158

00:16:35.210 --> 00:16:39.970

Stephanie Hayes: And the term America's 1st horse. The Spanish horses

 

159

00:16:40.010 --> 00:16:46.989

Stephanie Hayes: were the 1st horses in America. People think it's the Morgan, but the Morgan was the 1st breed

 

160

00:16:47.300 --> 00:16:49.530

Stephanie Hayes: in America. So

 

161

00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:57.941

Stephanie Hayes: There, you know, I'm always trying to clarify this for for people that

 

162

00:16:58.520 --> 00:17:05.559

Stephanie Hayes: The Spanish brought horses to North America, and even now that's controversial. But they think that

 

163

00:17:06.619 --> 00:17:11.600

Stephanie Hayes: there were native horses here, Prior. But that's a different topic.

 

164

00:17:12.050 --> 00:17:15.490

Kris Hiney: No, I've heard that recently. I was like.

 

165

00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:24.689

Stephanie Hayes: So so we'll, you know, stick with how I how I explain it. So America's 1st horse

 

166

00:17:25.706 --> 00:17:34.179

Stephanie Hayes: is it. It can cover many different strains of the Spanish mustangs or Spanish barbs.

 

167

00:17:35.116 --> 00:17:38.930

Stephanie Hayes: And there's probably, you know, like 10 different

 

168

00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:49.279

Stephanie Hayes: lines based on their geography. Maybe it's a family line, or an even native American bloodlines.

 

169

00:17:49.830 --> 00:18:01.259

Stephanie Hayes: So there's the umbrella breed which is the barb or the Spanish mustang, and then other strains that fall under that if that makes sense.

 

170

00:18:01.260 --> 00:18:06.950

Kris Hiney: Yes, so I have a kind of question, then, is a Spanish barb

 

171

00:18:07.110 --> 00:18:12.579

Kris Hiney: similar different from the category. A lot of people think it was like an Andalusian horse like

 

172

00:18:12.910 --> 00:18:16.830

Kris Hiney: to me they look similar. But are they different horses?

 

173

00:18:17.414 --> 00:18:25.840

Stephanie Hayes: They are distant cousins. They, the Andalusians and the Spanish barbs.

 

174

00:18:27.103 --> 00:18:38.099

Stephanie Hayes: Have the barb horse like North African barb, horse back background, like the their

 

175

00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:45.860

Stephanie Hayes: horses from the Barbary coast, which is in their in their past, in their DNA. So

 

176

00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.540

Stephanie Hayes: they are distant cousins. I think that

 

177

00:18:51.800 --> 00:18:55.980

Stephanie Hayes: our Spanish barbs are just smaller

 

178

00:18:56.030 --> 00:19:03.089

Stephanie Hayes: versions of the Iberian horses with less spice.

 

179

00:19:03.820 --> 00:19:04.720

Kris Hiney: Okay.

 

180

00:19:08.320 --> 00:19:21.599

Kris Hiney: that's funny. I guess. Maybe I don't ever think about them as as super spicy. I just know they. They're so distinctive in like their neck shape and some of their gait movement, and you know the short quarters and everything they just.

 

181

00:19:22.030 --> 00:19:22.440

Stephanie Hayes: Yeah.

 

182

00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:27.220

Kris Hiney: Look, they're a distinctive type of horse. All those Spanish breeds of horses are.

 

183

00:19:27.770 --> 00:19:34.880

Stephanie Hayes: And if you put a barb in an Andalusian, and I actually have

 

184

00:19:34.970 --> 00:19:40.495

Stephanie Hayes: 2 Andalusians in my barn right now, so it's always fun to compare them.

 

185

00:19:41.682 --> 00:19:49.089

Stephanie Hayes: there isn't. There really isn't a lot of difference body type wise. I don't think that the barbs have the neck.

 

186

00:19:49.905 --> 00:19:52.934

Stephanie Hayes: That the Andalusians do. But

 

187

00:19:53.620 --> 00:19:57.959

Stephanie Hayes: they can. But yeah, very short backed.

 

188

00:19:59.340 --> 00:20:04.939

Stephanie Hayes: the movement is very similar. Collection is what they're they're

 

189

00:20:05.330 --> 00:20:10.600

Stephanie Hayes: what they do, and they all have really great working minds.

 

190

00:20:11.290 --> 00:20:14.620

Stephanie Hayes: But like I said, the barbs just don't have that

 

191

00:20:16.330 --> 00:20:19.800

Stephanie Hayes: kind of like border collie work.

 

192

00:20:20.150 --> 00:20:20.480

betsygreene@arizona.edu: No.

 

193

00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:20.940

Kris Hiney: As well.

 

194

00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:21.460

Stephanie Hayes: Knocking on.

 

195

00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:23.189

Kris Hiney: Does that work like a border collie.

 

196

00:20:23.190 --> 00:20:23.910

betsygreene@arizona.edu: It was cool.

 

197

00:20:24.731 --> 00:20:35.629

Kris Hiney: Nobody should own that I own a couple of border collies, so I know how much fun.

 

198

00:20:35.990 --> 00:20:39.229

betsygreene@arizona.edu: I thought. She's right down your alley there, Kris.

 

199

00:20:39.590 --> 00:20:43.629

Kris Hiney: Well, I couldn't handle it if my horse acted like that, too. So.

 

200

00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:45.850

betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah.

 

201

00:20:45.850 --> 00:20:57.120

betsygreene@arizona.edu: well, and it was really cool, though, because Oscar came as a movie star. But along with Oscar came some of the 1st horses that Stephanie had brought, I think, from New Mexico right.

 

202

00:20:57.120 --> 00:20:59.080

Stephanie Hayes: Yes, yeah. And that's right.

 

203

00:20:59.320 --> 00:21:21.170

betsygreene@arizona.edu: Yeah. And as an organizer, you know, we have the big barn at the fairgrounds and all that, and it's like, here, where do you want to be? And she's like, Yeah, you know, we're fine in the shed row. They're happier outside with their, you know, able to be outside. It's like this is so different from many of our, you know, clinicians needing the fanciest place and the front stalls and everything else.

 

204

00:21:21.170 --> 00:21:31.160

betsygreene@arizona.edu: And so it was really cool. And you guys did some fundraisers and had a booth where they could. The kids could actually put paint handprints and things like that.

 

205

00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:31.830

Stephanie Hayes: Right?

 

206

00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:35.768

Stephanie Hayes: Yeah. Gosh, I think we were.

 

207

00:21:37.010 --> 00:21:50.369

Stephanie Hayes: I think you had what? Like 12 annual events. I think we were there for 11 of them. And yeah, each year it was just so great it was. It was just such a memorable time

 

208

00:21:50.500 --> 00:21:57.650

Stephanie Hayes: for me, because my kids were young and I had a barn full of little barn girls

 

209

00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:08.595

Stephanie Hayes: that were part of promoting this breed. And yeah, we set up a booth and we'd have the kids come and put their handprints on the horses, and

 

210

00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:23.470

Stephanie Hayes: do some fundraising for the center, and you know Oscar was there to draw the attention. But then we could really talk to people about the breed and what the preservation efforts

 

211

00:22:23.570 --> 00:22:25.602

Stephanie Hayes: were at the time.

 

212

00:22:26.560 --> 00:22:37.969

Stephanie Hayes: it was just it. It really brought a lot of attention to what I was doing here in Vermont with the horses, and you know I

 

213

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:39.995

Stephanie Hayes: I so appreciated.

 

214

00:22:41.770 --> 00:23:00.019

Stephanie Hayes: Betsy, how you let us expand over the years at the event to doing natural horsemanship. Demos I remember Tori and I did a bridless, Demo. She was on Oscar, and I was on one of my Spanish mustangs. And

 

215

00:23:00.070 --> 00:23:04.149

Stephanie Hayes: yeah, that was kind of before all of that was a thing.

 

216

00:23:05.800 --> 00:23:11.129

Stephanie Hayes: And I think it might have been one of the last years that I brought.

 

217

00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:18.329

Stephanie Hayes: I brought 6 of my youth students that were part of my natural horsemanship for children program.

 

218

00:23:18.390 --> 00:23:20.289

Stephanie Hayes: and that we

 

219

00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:29.779

Stephanie Hayes: did. This wonderful demonstration in the big arena with these little kids! And I looked back at that, and they were like

 

220

00:23:29.850 --> 00:23:31.979

Stephanie Hayes: 9 and 10 years old.

 

221

00:23:31.990 --> 00:23:43.240

Stephanie Hayes: And here they are doing a performance with their horses just in in groundwork to music, to a, you know, packed audience.

 

222

00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:48.294

Stephanie Hayes: And it was just, you know, it was so great, really,

 

223

00:23:49.080 --> 00:23:55.989

Stephanie Hayes: to be able to expose the public and expose these. You know, these kids to

 

224

00:23:57.070 --> 00:24:00.549

Stephanie Hayes: you know, to performing and demonstrating. And

 

225

00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:03.520

Stephanie Hayes: it was just really memorable time for me.

 

226

00:24:03.870 --> 00:24:08.110

betsygreene@arizona.edu: Well, the cool part was, I think, that was like our horsing around on Saturday night. Event

 

227

00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:11.900

betsygreene@arizona.edu: had like, kind of just

 

228

00:24:11.930 --> 00:24:40.529

betsygreene@arizona.edu: yeah. And the one of the reasons I can say that you expanded and were a part of all of those is because, as everything went, you know, came about. We just we didn't know each other, but you just did such a nice job, being safe and being sane and being kind when you were doing other demonstrations in the arena, and I remember a couple of times when we had our UVM drill team, we had some. We always had a

 

229

00:24:40.530 --> 00:25:06.360

betsygreene@arizona.edu: variety of experienced riders and horses. And so we actually put some of our less experienced one in a day clinic section with you, and you just were so kind and so safe with them when they needed it, and gave them good skills. And then they had a great performance that night, and if they hadn't had that time with you, both getting used to the arena, and you working with them to work through some of their.

 

230

00:25:06.450 --> 00:25:09.479

betsygreene@arizona.edu: you know, both skills and.

 

231

00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:10.020

Stephanie Hayes: Perfect.

 

232

00:25:10.190 --> 00:25:22.380

betsygreene@arizona.edu: Anxiety stuff, I mean. So you earned your way into doing, continuing to do things because you did such a great job, and that was great for the audiences to see as well.

 

233

00:25:22.710 --> 00:25:24.409

Stephanie Hayes: Yeah, thank you so much.

 

234

00:25:24.940 --> 00:25:38.330

Kris Hiney: Stephanie, could you? So we're kind of trying to talk about this, your, these horses and the you created the center for America's 1st horse, so maybe tell us what that is exactly.

 

235

00:25:38.860 --> 00:25:45.780

Stephanie Hayes: Okay? Well, it has definitely taken on a number of different

 

236

00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:53.190

Stephanie Hayes: kind of lives. Since the inception of the center, which was in 2,010.

 

237

00:25:55.700 --> 00:26:08.220

Stephanie Hayes: The inspiration really began when my other daughter, my youngest daughter, was gifted a little Spanish mustang colt from New Mexico. His name is Adelin Tado.

 

238

00:26:08.510 --> 00:26:12.660

Stephanie Hayes: and my daughter was 7 at the time, and

 

239

00:26:14.422 --> 00:26:21.517

Stephanie Hayes: he was just this amazing little 2 year old colt that we had no idea.

 

240

00:26:22.460 --> 00:26:32.059

Stephanie Hayes: That would be coming into our lives. It was really a lot of divine intervention that happened when he arrived to us, and

 

241

00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:38.560

Stephanie Hayes: there was something very special about him and his character and his look, and

 

242

00:26:38.971 --> 00:26:45.640

Stephanie Hayes: his athleticism, I could see through his roughness. He was just, you know, a little scrawny 2 year old.

 

243

00:26:46.310 --> 00:26:48.480

Stephanie Hayes: you know, off the

 

244

00:26:48.980 --> 00:26:58.977

Stephanie Hayes: farm in New Mexico. He wasn't much to look at when we got him, but I could see through that, and I thought, you know, with my experience as a trainer and

 

245

00:26:59.950 --> 00:27:08.839

Stephanie Hayes: and my competition experience like, maybe I could help this rare breed by promoting them a little bit, and

 

246

00:27:09.394 --> 00:27:18.729

Stephanie Hayes: I became, you know, very close with the family in New Mexico, the Baca family where we had got him, and

 

247

00:27:18.910 --> 00:27:23.664

Stephanie Hayes: they had about 50 horses that they had bred over the years that

 

248

00:27:24.210 --> 00:27:28.680

Stephanie Hayes: weren't doing anything, and they ended up sending me for

 

249

00:27:28.890 --> 00:27:40.320

Stephanie Hayes: other horses, all brothers to Otto and Tato, and over the next 4 years I got over 30 of their horses that I trained and either kept or rehomed

 

250

00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:50.820

Stephanie Hayes: and I was. I was helping them because they didn't have the resources to have all these horses, and I was enjoying

 

251

00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.890

Stephanie Hayes: doing something new in my horse career.

 

252

00:27:55.916 --> 00:28:00.940

Stephanie Hayes: And I knew that

 

253

00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:10.348

Stephanie Hayes: I needed to kind of take this a little step farther than just it being, I mean, it's kind of just a hobby at the time

 

254

00:28:11.450 --> 00:28:13.300

Stephanie Hayes: and my

 

255

00:28:13.350 --> 00:28:23.859

Stephanie Hayes: daughters and I went out to New Mexico for a year. We moved out there for a year to help kind of cull the herd at the Baccas farm, and when I came back

 

256

00:28:24.770 --> 00:28:32.059

Stephanie Hayes: I needed to make this something official. So I became a nonprofit in 2,010

 

257

00:28:32.130 --> 00:28:35.540

Stephanie Hayes: and out in New Mexico. I'd also had

 

258

00:28:35.610 --> 00:28:42.650

Stephanie Hayes: the opportunity to work with children with like emotional

 

259

00:28:43.310 --> 00:28:51.229

Stephanie Hayes: problems in a residential treatment, facility setting, and my horses and I did. Equine assisted therapy

 

260

00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:57.029

Stephanie Hayes: out there, and I saw my horses in a different light during that time.

 

261

00:28:57.050 --> 00:29:06.090

Stephanie Hayes: So when I came back to Vermont and I started the center. It was a heavy focus on giving

 

262

00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:14.140

Stephanie Hayes: children and adults some life skills through the horses, building confidence.

 

263

00:29:14.711 --> 00:29:21.210

Stephanie Hayes: giving, giving these people a safe place to come and spend time with horses, and I found that

 

264

00:29:21.410 --> 00:29:29.089

Stephanie Hayes: my horses were really enjoying this this work because they're very personable.

 

265

00:29:30.860 --> 00:29:36.690

Stephanie Hayes: And that that was like the 1st phase of the center.

 

266

00:29:37.151 --> 00:29:48.110

Stephanie Hayes: You know, we still had Oscar. We were still traveling around, doing a lot of expos and demonstrations and taking the horses to schools and libraries.

 

267

00:29:50.080 --> 00:29:51.949

Stephanie Hayes: So I probably spent.

 

268

00:29:52.472 --> 00:29:55.850

Stephanie Hayes: Excuse me, like maybe 4 years doing that.

 

269

00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:25.869

Stephanie Hayes: and then all these, you know, kids at the barn. They wanted to ride and not just do groundwork and brush horses all day. So I started a riding program for the kids, and then they thought that they might like to try to go to a little horse show. And so we started taking horses out to just some local dressage shows, some jumping, and we did a lot of trail riding, and

 

270

00:30:25.990 --> 00:30:31.217

Stephanie Hayes: and it evolved kind of the next phase was

 

271

00:30:32.040 --> 00:30:41.939

Stephanie Hayes: I had some really competitive kids, and I was doing a little more showing at the time, and people were starting to see that these

 

272

00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.690

Stephanie Hayes: great little horses were not only, you know, wonderful for helping people, but

 

273

00:30:48.010 --> 00:30:51.230

Stephanie Hayes: you could go out into the horse world, and

 

274

00:30:51.710 --> 00:30:54.599

Stephanie Hayes: you know, be competitive on them as well.

 

275

00:30:57.020 --> 00:31:04.991

Stephanie Hayes: But then kids grow up and they became teenagers, and all my little barn girls,

 

276

00:31:05.570 --> 00:31:13.489

Stephanie Hayes: you know, started having other interests, and my horses were starting to get older and just

 

277

00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:16.469

Stephanie Hayes: kind of telling me that that they

 

278

00:31:16.570 --> 00:31:21.490

Stephanie Hayes: they didn't want to be lesson horses anymore. And I didn't wanna

 

279

00:31:23.450 --> 00:31:29.889

Stephanie Hayes: you know I wanted them to be happy. So I started leasing my horses out

 

280

00:31:30.130 --> 00:31:33.713

Stephanie Hayes: and kind of starting another

 

281

00:31:34.800 --> 00:31:36.270

Stephanie Hayes: Another branch

 

282

00:31:36.550 --> 00:31:47.860

Stephanie Hayes: of what I was doing, so that other people outside of my barn could experience this amazing breed and resources that had all kinds of great experiences and

 

283

00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:50.000

Stephanie Hayes: training on them now.

 

284

00:31:51.860 --> 00:32:04.080

Stephanie Hayes: And that was probably around 2,012, 2,013 and

 

285

00:32:04.580 --> 00:32:11.959

Stephanie Hayes: you know, I felt like kind of a shift coming with the center as far as what

 

286

00:32:12.170 --> 00:32:22.219

Stephanie Hayes: like, how I was spending my time. And it just kind of a 1 man show with, you know, all these kids helping with barn chores and unloading hay, and

 

287

00:32:22.530 --> 00:32:31.210

Stephanie Hayes: you know they were my, they were my little helpers. Which was, which was great. But now I'm kind of doing.

 

288

00:32:31.340 --> 00:32:34.437

Stephanie Hayes: you know more on my own and

 

289

00:32:36.710 --> 00:32:44.090

Stephanie Hayes: you know I was looking at ways that I could continue to promote the breed

 

290

00:32:46.840 --> 00:32:54.750

Stephanie Hayes: to continue training because there were still young horses coming in from other breeders around the country.

 

291

00:32:56.330 --> 00:32:57.054

Stephanie Hayes: And

 

292

00:32:59.010 --> 00:33:08.760

Stephanie Hayes: So I was. I was like looking for something new and exciting to do, and that's when working equitation came into my path, which

 

293

00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:13.197

Stephanie Hayes: has a life of its own. I'll just backtrack a little bit.

 

294

00:33:14.603 --> 00:33:19.330

Stephanie Hayes: Betsy probably doesn't know this, but I, my husband and I met

 

295

00:33:19.790 --> 00:33:22.499

Stephanie Hayes: pretty much through Betsy. She had.

 

296

00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:23.890

betsygreene@arizona.edu: I knew that.

 

297

00:33:23.890 --> 00:33:28.782

Stephanie Hayes: She had an event. At the University of Vermont, and my

 

298

00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:33.990

Stephanie Hayes: my husband to be, and I were both asked to be presenters there, and

 

299

00:33:34.190 --> 00:33:38.639

Stephanie Hayes: he and I met, he said, Hey, I'll do a benefit clinic for you. And

 

300

00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:44.890

Stephanie Hayes: I'm like, okay. So he came up in a couple of months later and did a clinic, and

 

301

00:33:45.360 --> 00:33:47.982

Stephanie Hayes: we got married a couple of years later

 

302

00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:58.840

Stephanie Hayes: and so Tim wrote a book about equine therapy just around the time that

 

303

00:33:59.030 --> 00:34:01.294

Stephanie Hayes: we had met, and

 

304

00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:14.580

Stephanie Hayes: Tim has always very much supported the work that I do with the horses. So it was just literally a marriage of his work

 

305

00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:20.153

Stephanie Hayes: in equine therapy, my work with the breed, my

 

306

00:34:21.050 --> 00:34:30.889

Stephanie Hayes: my history with the equine assisted, learning that it all just kind of came nicely together for us.

 

307

00:34:32.830 --> 00:34:36.320

Stephanie Hayes: So Betsy's part time matchmaker. Then that's right.

 

308

00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:36.790

betsygreene@arizona.edu: Call me cupid.

 

309

00:34:36.790 --> 00:34:39.080

Stephanie Hayes: Yeah, we are forever grateful.

 

310

00:34:40.429 --> 00:34:45.979

betsygreene@arizona.edu: And the funny part is, he was actually an alum of UVM, and that's 1 reason he came back

 

311

00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.630

betsygreene@arizona.edu: and was offering to do some stuff with us and for us in the classes.

 

312

00:34:52.630 --> 00:34:53.300

Kris Hiney: Cool.

 

313

00:34:53.760 --> 00:35:09.100

Kris Hiney: So I want to ask a little bit more about these horses. So how many Spanish mustangs Spanish barbs do you think there are in the in the Us. I mean. I'm sure there's a fair amount, but we just don't run across them that often.

 

314

00:35:09.462 --> 00:35:13.089

Stephanie Hayes: So there's probably about 2,000 in the whole world.

 

315

00:35:13.950 --> 00:35:15.269

Kris Hiney: In the whole world.

 

316

00:35:15.270 --> 00:35:16.370

Stephanie Hayes: The whole world.

 

317

00:35:16.700 --> 00:35:18.660

Kris Hiney: Well, that's not very much so.

 

318

00:35:18.660 --> 00:35:27.639

Stephanie Hayes: No, that's not very many at all. No. And if you really count the breeding stallions and the breeding mares

 

319

00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:36.309

Stephanie Hayes: very, very few like not a very strong gene pool.

 

320

00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:43.590

Stephanie Hayes: and the particular line that is close to my heart. The Baca horses.

 

321

00:35:45.410 --> 00:35:47.016

Stephanie Hayes: We have.

 

322

00:35:50.400 --> 00:36:04.919

Stephanie Hayes: we have 5 stallions. Well, they're not all stallions anymore, because we've collected semen on them. There's only 2 standing stallions. I think we have semen on 5

 

323

00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:15.749

Stephanie Hayes: and there's 7 breeding mares, maybe 7 to 8 breeding mares.

 

324

00:36:17.310 --> 00:36:19.179

Stephanie Hayes: Very small gene pool.

 

325

00:36:20.650 --> 00:36:27.949

Stephanie Hayes: back in 2015. I got a phone call out of the blue from a woman named Carol Powell in California.

 

326

00:36:28.010 --> 00:36:34.410

Stephanie Hayes: who said, I'm retiring from the social services

 

327

00:36:34.510 --> 00:36:40.279

Stephanie Hayes: from a career there, and I want to do what you do with these horses and kids

 

328

00:36:40.330 --> 00:36:43.649

Stephanie Hayes: can we get together? She flew out to Vermont.

 

329

00:36:43.890 --> 00:36:51.179

Stephanie Hayes: We talked. I showed her my horses, and we have had a wonderful 10 year relationship.

 

330

00:36:51.270 --> 00:36:57.059

Stephanie Hayes: as she has all of the breeding stock right now. I sent her my stallion

 

331

00:36:57.080 --> 00:37:13.770

Stephanie Hayes: and a mare, and Carol has gone on to find some of the other mares that had been dispersed back in New Mexico, and she's created a herd and has

 

332

00:37:14.040 --> 00:37:17.760

Stephanie Hayes: saved them really from extinction.

 

333

00:37:18.296 --> 00:37:21.629

Stephanie Hayes: So Carol and I work very closely together

 

334

00:37:21.650 --> 00:37:24.975

Stephanie Hayes: in our breeding plan and

 

335

00:37:26.520 --> 00:37:38.520

Stephanie Hayes: she has worked or is working with Gus. Catherine has worked with Dr. Spanenberg as well as a couple other universities internationally and here in the Us.

 

336

00:37:39.222 --> 00:37:46.516

Stephanie Hayes: To help with DNA testing for our horses, and breeding plans.

 

337

00:37:47.670 --> 00:37:55.750

Stephanie Hayes: so, although it's still a very small gene pool, we are still able to

 

338

00:37:56.350 --> 00:38:07.739

Stephanie Hayes: make babies. And I have gosh! Probably 6 or 7 of

 

339

00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:13.770

Stephanie Hayes: her horses in California have made their way out to Vermont

 

340

00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:18.709

Stephanie Hayes: into either new homes through me, or have come to me.

 

341

00:38:19.404 --> 00:38:24.989

Stephanie Hayes: And our, my, my competition horses or horses in training.

 

342

00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:33.129

Stephanie Hayes: So it's amazing how you know, I look back on this, how the center has branched out

 

343

00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:43.238

Stephanie Hayes: across the country. We also have 2 other breeders, one in New Mexico and one in Arizona. That also has some of the Baca horses that are

 

344

00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:50.230

Stephanie Hayes: doing breeding on a small scale also. So we're not talking a lot of horses. I mean, we're talking like.

 

345

00:38:50.230 --> 00:38:50.920

Kris Hiney: No.

 

346

00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:52.680

Stephanie Hayes: 2 dozen, maybe.

 

347

00:38:52.680 --> 00:38:55.479

Kris Hiney: Yeah, that's a handful.

 

348

00:38:56.310 --> 00:39:03.010

Kris Hiney: So is there any plans to like? I mean, with that limited gene pool? Do you have to outcross any or just kind of

 

349

00:39:03.350 --> 00:39:07.506

Kris Hiney: keep what you have, and then eventually.

 

350

00:39:08.100 --> 00:39:14.789

Stephanie Hayes: Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good question. And it's something we talk about. All of the time.

 

351

00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:20.142

Stephanie Hayes: There in the US.

 

352

00:39:21.010 --> 00:39:29.690

Stephanie Hayes: I have not found any stallions Spanish, mustang, or Spanish barb stallions that meet my criteria

 

353

00:39:29.740 --> 00:39:34.630

Stephanie Hayes: for adding into this particular family line.

 

354

00:39:34.650 --> 00:39:50.279

Stephanie Hayes: because we don't want to change anything that we have. We want the same size, the same movement, which is, I think, really their signature is just their lovely, elegant movers that you don't see in some of the other strains.

 

355

00:39:50.330 --> 00:39:57.872

Stephanie Hayes: So I had. I hadn't found anything in the Us. That I was really excited about

 

356

00:39:58.680 --> 00:40:02.350

Stephanie Hayes: However, perusing Google.

 

357

00:40:02.390 --> 00:40:03.440

betsygreene@arizona.edu: I.

 

358

00:40:03.770 --> 00:40:11.159

Stephanie Hayes: Ran across North African barbs, and I looked at every picture I could find, and I identified

 

359

00:40:11.470 --> 00:40:18.359

Stephanie Hayes: my horse's Confirmation temperament movement in these horses that I researched online

 

360

00:40:18.640 --> 00:40:23.900

Stephanie Hayes: in 2019. I think it was Carol and I flew to Belgium

 

361

00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:30.770

Stephanie Hayes: to meet the largest barb horse breeder in Europe, and

 

362

00:40:30.810 --> 00:40:37.250

Stephanie Hayes: I saw, I think, over 50 horses in a couple of days. And these horses are right from North Africa

 

363

00:40:37.700 --> 00:40:38.455

Stephanie Hayes: and

 

364

00:40:39.740 --> 00:40:45.575

Stephanie Hayes: and I'm like this, is it. This is what we're looking for. And with the DNA testing that

 

365

00:40:46.030 --> 00:40:50.419

Stephanie Hayes: Gus Catherine had done for us, that was like a 2 year study.

 

366

00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:55.790

Stephanie Hayes: We found that that our particular horses are

 

367

00:40:57.600 --> 00:41:16.699

Stephanie Hayes: like matching exactly on the scatterplot. I am not a DNA. I'm not a scientist. All I know is like what I saw on a piece of paper that there's these little boxes. Yellow boxes are the North African barbs, and the blue boxes are the Baca horses, and those boxes are overlapping.

 

368

00:41:17.060 --> 00:41:17.710

Kris Hiney: Okay.

 

369

00:41:17.710 --> 00:41:19.710

Stephanie Hayes: So I saw that with my own eyes.

 

370

00:41:21.200 --> 00:41:32.730

Stephanie Hayes: So we are highly considering getting semen from our colleague in Belgium and

 

371

00:41:33.030 --> 00:41:36.061

Stephanie Hayes: trying to refresh our

 

372

00:41:38.130 --> 00:41:39.699

betsygreene@arizona.edu: gene pool. Yeah.

 

373

00:41:39.700 --> 00:41:40.510

Kris Hiney: Yeah.

 

374

00:41:40.891 --> 00:41:43.559

Stephanie Hayes: But it comes at a great expense.

 

375

00:41:47.080 --> 00:41:51.190

Stephanie Hayes: Semen! It! It's almost cheaper than

 

376

00:41:51.590 --> 00:41:53.750

Stephanie Hayes: I mean getting a whole horse

 

377

00:41:54.140 --> 00:41:57.040

Stephanie Hayes: is almost cheaper than shipping the semen

 

378

00:41:57.855 --> 00:42:01.310

Stephanie Hayes: so yeah, we talk about this like all the time.

 

379

00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:11.040

Stephanie Hayes: But without the funds right now, you know we are, we are limited, and we're just trying to do the best we can

 

380

00:42:11.830 --> 00:42:13.179

Stephanie Hayes: on this continent.

 

381

00:42:13.710 --> 00:42:19.139

Stephanie Hayes: But long term, you know, I think one day I may.

 

382

00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:30.280

Stephanie Hayes: You know, when my ship comes in. I you know I would love to import a barb. I think it is would be the 1st North African barb in the Us.

 

383

00:42:31.060 --> 00:42:32.210

Kris Hiney: Very cool.

 

384

00:42:32.380 --> 00:42:35.540

Kris Hiney: Well, I say, just do it. Put it on the credit card

 

385

00:42:40.090 --> 00:42:49.938

Kris Hiney: very cool. Well, I think this is really neat, and it's not often we get to talk about a breed of horse that's that rare in the United States, and to give people

 

386

00:42:50.460 --> 00:43:01.280

Kris Hiney: some different perspectives. And I bet you we've inspired some people to go back and watch Hidalgo again so that they can be like, Oh, yeah, look at all those horses that we really enjoyed

 

387

00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:24.519

Kris Hiney: so well. I really appreciate your time today, Stephanie, talking about these wonderful horses. We'll put a link to the center for America's 1st horse in our show notes. I'll try to dig up some pictures and videos of these guys to link to that as well. But again, appreciate your time. And that has been another episode of our tech box talk horse stories with a purpose.