Tack Box Talk
Tack Box Talk
Research It!: The story how to navigate a world of so much information
In this episode, Dr. Tania Cubitt, of Performance Horse Nutrition, returns to take a deeper dive into a topic we brought up at our live taping at the Equine Science Society meetings in Fort Collins, Colorado. We provide owners strategies on how exactly to "do your own research" and explain what types of information are out there. So listen to this buyer beware episode!
00:03:33.580 --> 00:03:55.150Kris Hiney: Welcome to Extension Horse's Tack Box Talk Series, Horse Stories with a Purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Kris Hiney with Oklahoma State University, and today we're going to be continuing a conversation from the discussion we had live at the Equine Science Symposium. So now, a returning guest, we're welcoming back Dr. Tanyia Cubit. So welcome back, Tanya!
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Tania Cubitt: Hi, I'm glad to be back!
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Kris Hiney: So, you brought up an interesting topic that I thought deserved a little bit more time. And so you talked about that you had gone to a presentation and had read the abstract, but then once you were in the room, there was a lot more to it.
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Kris Hiney: And you had advised that's why our horse owners need to, as we all say, and I'm gonna air quote everybody envision it, do your own research.
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Kris Hiney: Easier said than done. So, let's have that conversation and provide a little advice about what it means for an owner to do their own research.
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Tania Cubitt: Yes. Yeah, I did really, I think, open a giant can of worms, and we do tell our clients all the time, you know, you have to do your research, because not everything you read on the internet is correct.
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Tania Cubitt: Barely anything you read is correct. And so, we, as professionals in the industry, have access to so much…
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Tania Cubitt: research, you know, academic, scientific research, and I guess that's where it first started, because even that
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Tania Cubitt: Access to that academic or scientific research.
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Tania Cubitt: still doesn't answer all the questions, because I felt like those two abstracts that I was mentioning, …
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Tania Cubitt: it was all context. You know, if you just read the abstract, you would take one meaning, but in listening to the description of how the, how the, how it all played out, how the research played out, and just kind of other little details.
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Tania Cubitt: then maybe you would make a completely different assumption. So, I think….
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Kris Hiney: I think that's a good point, and maybe, like, even taking a moment so that… because if you're not immersed in our world, you probably don't know the difference between an abstract and a paper. And if you're looking things up, you may not see the difference, right? So… so abstracts, for those of you that have never had to put one together, they're very short, concise, you know, they give us a word limit, like.
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Kris Hiney: 200 to 400 words, maybe, in an abstract that we have to submit
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Kris Hiney: to an organization in order to then present our data in either a poster or an oral presentation format. So an abstract, by its nature, doesn't have a lot of details for you to actually get context out of, right? It is the author's
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Kris Hiney: Trying to convince the society to let them have a chance to tell their story.
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Kris Hiney: Which is different than a peer-reviewed publication.
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Kris Hiney: So, that has had to go through an entire new level of stuff.
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Kris Hiney: Right? People critiquing it, the author having to address issues, they have a much longer way of explaining what they did. Like, how many characters would you say is different between an abstract and a typical paper?
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Tania Cubitt: Whoa, I mean, you've probably got about 250, like.
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Tania Cubitt: Maybe, I'm so bad with numbers, but in an abstract, and then a full paper could be multiple pages.
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Kris Hiney: Right. I mean, they're huge. They're a pain in the butt.
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Kris Hiney: So, like, how does somebody know, then, when they're finding some snippets of information? Because I've seen this on ads, right? So, I've seen products advertised, and I was like, that's abstract. How is the average person gonna know whether it is
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Kris Hiney: Information just from an abstract versus a peer-reviewed publication.
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Tania Cubitt: And now we'd go one step further and say, well, there's two types of abstracts, too. There's an abstract that got submitted to go to a meeting.
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Tania Cubitt: a seminar so that they could talk about their research that maybe one day gets published into a paper, but there's also, if you… what I think a lot of our listeners have access to is the abstract that came from that.
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Kris Hiney: Audible.
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Tania Cubitt: Right? So… so not… not every peer… not every abstract is not peer-reviewed. Some are, but I would say that every abstract is very consolidated. It is a very brief overview and summary, and so…
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Tania Cubitt: very key facts, like how many animals may have been present, kind of confounding factors that even in a paper, an author will outline any confounding factors. They don't have time to write all that in the abstract, so even if you're not well-versed at reading research.
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Tania Cubitt: and might rely on the author to outline some of these problems. That's not going to be in an abstract, and so I think that's
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Tania Cubitt: Where, further down the track, it gets very difficult is most of our listeners will never have access to full papers. It's thousands of dollars that universities spend to have
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Tania Cubitt: access to all of these journals, so….
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Kris Hiney: And there's kind of two thoughts that I want to bring up from what you just said. So one, how many times, just maybe guess, or maybe a percentage, have you read an abstract, and then, like, okay, I want to read further, and then you're like, kind of a nothing burger? Like, how often… Oh, all the time. Right?
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Tania Cubitt: I read the title, because now everybody's very well versed on writing a clickbait title, so of course I read the title and think, oh, that's gonna be great! And then I read the abstract, and I'm like, yeah, this could be cool. And then I read the paper, and I was like, oh, there are 3 horses, and they were…
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Tania Cubitt: One was fat, and one was thin, and one was exercising, so they're all completely different, and this was not a great research paper. So, yeah, all the time.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, so… and we'll try to help people navigate that in a second, but then the other piece that, you know, I think full disclosure for folks to know, so we've moved into an era where more things are open access, right? So open access journals mean that you don't have to have an OSU login to get to it, because that's how we get to things, is that my institution allows me access to all kinds of things, that if I log in through them, I can read.
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Kris Hiney: But what people don't realize is those open access journals, we have to pay a heck of a lot more money to publish them, so, like, sometimes it could be good data, but, like, Kris Hiney doesn't have the budget to get it in open access. Like, so…
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Kris Hiney: There's so many layers to this, I think, that complicate somebody doing their research.
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Kris Hiney: So, so your point, like, what is somebody to do to try to interpret if you only have access to an abstract? Because Google Scholar will give you the kind of… a lot of times you can get access to the abstract, but it will block you from the full paper.
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Tania Cubitt: Yeah, and I think, you know, most of our listeners, most of our horse clientele are not necessarily, …
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Tania Cubitt: They're trying to get answers to pretty basic questions, and…
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Tania Cubitt: they get more confused because there's so much information available, and maybe… and all the different platforms, they're going to a Facebook group, they're going to another, maybe…
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Tania Cubitt: purported, more scientific group, you know, they're going to a bunch of different groups, and so they're getting a lot of differing opinions, truly opinions, and so then they think, oh, I want to try and
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Tania Cubitt: do my own research. I think when it comes to super serious stuff, you know, we're working with a team of veterinarians and nutritionists, and we're helping. So.
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Tania Cubitt: Always, if you get confused, I think it goes back to having a good team. Myself and my business partner, Dr. Duran, have been talking about this recently, with the….
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Kris Hiney: kind of influx of people using AI, and I know I'm going a little bit off-topic, but… Nope, I was gonna ask you that question.
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Tania Cubitt: And I think there was even a paper published at ESS about the use of AI, and, you know, I think that it showed
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Tania Cubitt: when the question being asked was pretty basic, like, how much water should I be giving my horse in the summertime? Or, what's my horse's heart rate after exercise? You know, these pretty basic questions. It was pretty good at answering those questions.
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Tania Cubitt: As you got further, further, more in-depth, or more specific, it got less and less, …
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Tania Cubitt: good, let's say, at answering those questions accurately. And so, for my clients, what I say to them, and Dr. Duren, we say to them is.
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Tania Cubitt: when it's pretty basic, and you'll get a good answer if you ask something like ChatGPT, but
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Tania Cubitt: if at all, as you get further down, that's… that's what I'm here for, as an equine nutritionist. That's what e-extension is for. That's… there are a lot of, independent groups
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Tania Cubitt: that you can ask a question to, to get a non-biased, like, I'm not trying to sell you something, here's the unbiased answer. …
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Tania Cubitt: But I think…
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Tania Cubitt: you know, I think AI is going to have a place with some of the basic stuff, but it's just important to have
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Tania Cubitt: That team that you trust, and they're your fallback every time.
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Kris Hiney: And I think, you know, there's so many pieces that I want to bring up, so I'll just do them one at a time.
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Tania Cubitt: Check them all out there.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, right? So, we always have to remember, AI just gathers up whatever is out there. So I read this really funny post, so this is dogs, and again, listeners, bear with me, right?
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Kris Hiney: So somebody had posted something on their social media, sort of in jest, like, they made something up, and hopefully they don't…
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Kris Hiney: if you guys really saw this post, you might laugh. But it was about how often Border Collies blink their eyes.
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Kris Hiney: Because they have Border Collie stairs. She completely made this up in, like, kind of a fun little… just a social media post.
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Kris Hiney: And then it… AI somehow picked up, and now that is part of the knowledge that it will tell you about eye blink rate in Border Collies. Well, I think part of the….
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Tania Cubitt: Yes, and I think that's part of the algorithm, is… AI doesn't… make… create content. It doesn't…
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Tania Cubitt: say, oh, that's good or that's bad, from my understanding. Now, I feel like…
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Tania Cubitt: some AI platforms direct it to search certain areas of the internet, but I think the very generic explanation is the more time something's on the internet.
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Tania Cubitt: then… and more times that that statement is repeated, then it becomes fact. It thinks it's fact. So, yes, you can have a silly viral… a silly statement like that that was made in jest, or maybe somebody thought it was true and made it up.
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Tania Cubitt: And then, if it gets shared and shared and shared, and now it's all over the internet, AI might say, oh, yes, Border Collies blink, that's… that's fact.
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Tania Cubitt: But, at least ChatGPT will, when it has a statement like that, it has this little, like, infinity sign, and I can click on that, and it will say where it got that content from.
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Tania Cubitt: And then that's where then we can start to use some… just common sense. If that's come from somebody's Facebook post or some random website, then I just know I'm a bit leery about that. Actually, when I
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Tania Cubitt: put a prompt into these AI programs, I will say, give me scientific journal references. I don't say give me references, because a reference is just somebody said it, right? And if you say, give me references, a lot of times it will reference magazine articles, maybe an ad, in the equine industry. Like, I have no connection to this group whatsoever.
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Tania Cubitt: but they post a lot of content is Mad Barn. They… and so they get referenced a lot. I'm not gonna… I haven't gone through their website to say whether it's correct or not. I'm not gonna say anything, but… but that… that gets referenced a lot. So I…
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Tania Cubitt: have… as I've been trying to learn more and more about AI, the prompt, so the question you ask it, becomes very important. They…
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Tania Cubitt: as to the quality of information that it's going to put back. So if I always say, give me scientific references, and then… that also then narrows down the…
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Tania Cubitt: where that… it's getting that answer from. It's not searching the whole internet now. So if I said, put in… asked, how many times does a Border Collie blink in a day, and give me scientific, peer-reviewed articles, references, it's not going to bring up that lady's weird post.
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Tania Cubitt: So, that… that's a little help.
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Kris Hiney: I think that's actually really, really helpful for people to know, like, if… because there are these new tools, and we know that there's… I don't know if they call them hallucinations, or phantomications, or what they call them in the AI world about the junk it makes up, but, like.
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Kris Hiney: that you need to add that. And maybe a plug about, again, why that's important, because what we do is try to direct people, information that came through the process, right?
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Kris Hiney: There's some value in having a colleague say, you didn't do that right.
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Tania Cubitt: 100%.
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Kris Hiney: And, again, what people don't know is when we write articles, we have that feedback where we… they're like, you better talk about this, talk about this limitation, talk about this, that makes us… make our discussion more balanced in… in considering other… other things. Like, that's the value of it!
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Tania Cubitt: Absolutely, and that's why I always say, like, have a team.
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Tania Cubitt: not a team of strangers on a Facebook chat group, okay? Because I… look.
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Tania Cubitt: I have a PhD, I've been working with Performance Horse Nutrition. I just calculated, it feels like just yesterday, but it's over 21 years. I can't be that old. But, I sent an article to Dr. Duren recently saying, oh, look, this looks great, and he said, that's a terrible paper. Did you not even read that?
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Tania Cubitt: the materials and methods were awful, and I was like, I just got so invested in the topic, and I… that is something that I was super interested in, that even I kind of glossed over very important facts that were glaring. So, …
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Tania Cubitt: Yes, I think when I say have a good team, it's a team of unbiased people. Look, here's the little motto that I live by. Only the people that love you the most will tell you when your breath smells, right?
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Tania Cubitt: So, if somebody is constantly telling, oh yes, what you found is wonderful, it's wonderful, everything you find is amazing and factual.
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Tania Cubitt: you've got to have people in your corner that are going to tell you, what? No, that's crazy. Like, don't believe that. Don't believe everything you read. And they're okay telling you that. So, you know, trying to have some good experts in your.
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Kris Hiney: Right, and I think, you know, and I've just had this experience through my students, like, we've done some, student projects where I'm like, okay, here's, like, different, products, whether they're supplement, different horse products, and then read what it says, and, like.
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Kris Hiney: they believe everything that the company says, like, wholesale. Like, they're… they don't…
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Kris Hiney: at this juncture, don't critically, like, well, they're just throwing science words, it seems like, in a random assortment, right? So are you really gonna be like, this sounds amazing, I should probably do it? That's where we want people to grow a little bit more, because all of those companies are strategically trying to separate you from your money.
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Tania Cubitt: Yes.
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Tania Cubitt: Correct, correct. And so something like, I see this a lot on supplements, veterinarian recommended.
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Tania Cubitt: That means one vet said, sure, feed it to your horse. That's all that means. It doesn't mean that there's a certain percentage of veterinarians that you surveyed said that they would feed it. It means one vet said feed it. And a lot of times, nobody's checking on that, so they just put it on there. And what are you gonna say? Which vet?
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Tania Cubitt: how many vets? And they are questions that you can certainly ask, but, you know, there's certainly marketing that,
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Tania Cubitt: It's there to confuse people.
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Tania Cubitt: … Which is… Unfortunate.
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Kris Hiney: But true, right? Because I've seen it, right? And they can make a statement like, lysine builds muscle. Well, yeah, it does, but we need context about.
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Tania Cubitt: content.
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Kris Hiney: How much is in it? Yeah. Turns out that makes a difference.
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Tania Cubitt: Yeah. And I also think… so, look, I would love to say.
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Tania Cubitt: every food product, every supplement for horses, you know, I would love to be able to say, oh, there's no equine research.
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Tania Cubitt: Don't feed them. But we've also got to be realistic, and so I was actually asked this question recently by one of my sales reps, and said it was about a specific type of chelated mineral. And, well, I've done my homework, and I've found no equine research.
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Tania Cubitt: Equine research is very expensive, so I also…
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Tania Cubitt: you know, I am an expert, so I feel
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Tania Cubitt: comfortable looking at research in other animals.
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Tania Cubitt: and being able to take some value from that. Do I think that every horse owner should be doing that? No, because then there's a lot of research that says, you know, X is going to kill your animal. Well, yeah, if you feed
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Tania Cubitt: three times a mouse's body weight in X, yes, it will kill it, but we're talking about horses, and there's no way you can actually get a horse to eat 3 times its body weight in ANYTHING. So, you know.
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Tania Cubitt: then having some common sense as to the animal that it was done in. Okay, do I put a lot of value in mouse research for horses? Perhaps not, when we're talking about the size difference and what you can get a mouse to do. But, you know.
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Tania Cubitt: if there were… there's research that's done in cattle. Okay, yes, we've got a different digestive system, but, you know, sometimes I… I don't discount
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Tania Cubitt: everything that doesn't have equine research, that perhaps has some other livestock research, and then I can extrapolate, from there, so….
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Kris Hiney: Again, just muddying the waters.
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Tania Cubitt: Make it more. Make it a little bit more hard to understand.
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Kris Hiney: But my point to that would also be, like, I would hope, if I was like, okay, I am going to look in other livestock research, that there's a body of literature about it, right? So not one person did one thing one time, like.
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Tania Cubitt: Correct.
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Tania Cubitt: And I think that's the… that is the crux of the absolute whole thing. No matter who did the research, where it was published, I think in order for us to take that research seriously, one of the
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Tania Cubitt: The very first rules you learn in grad school, or even maybe in undergrad, when you're learning about critical thinking, is was it repeated?
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Tania Cubitt: Is it repeatable? Did multiple people do the same research in similar groups of animals? It's not like, well, one did it in old people and one did it in babies. We've got… they're similar research studies and found the same thing. Because you're right.
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Tania Cubitt: one study Could be amazing.
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Tania Cubitt: But it was still only one study.
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Kris Hiney: So….
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Tania Cubitt: We all live.
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Kris Hiney: But into those unique circumstances. That's what, yeah, I think is hard. And so, yeah, when I'm reading stuff, if there's a whole bunch of things that lead me in the direction, like, okay, well, I can buy into this.
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Tania Cubitt: Yeah.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah.
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Tania Cubitt: I found one cool study, and look, I fall victim to it, too, if I really want
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Tania Cubitt: It's hard, and that's why, again, I go back to have people that will set you straight and tell you the truth.
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Tania Cubitt: When you want something to be true, Then, oftentimes you read
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Tania Cubitt: Whatever you want to read, you're going… and you're also going to bias what you're reading, because you…
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Tania Cubitt: In the back of your mind, you want to believe, I'm gonna throw out something, you know, very… what's the word, click-baity, or….
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Kris Hiney: Sure.
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Tania Cubitt: Yeah, yeah. Like, soy. Soy, for example, has a lot… some very strong opinions, let's say. And if you really want to believe soy is the enemy.
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Tania Cubitt: you can find a whole body of research that's going to tell you that. If you want to believe that soy is not the enemy, you can also find a body of research that's going to tell you that. So you've also got to be very careful with
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Tania Cubitt: how you go into doing your research. Are you already biased? And that is going to direct what you search for and what you don't search for.
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Kris Hiney: So… Well, there, now it's crystal clear what people should do.
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Tania Cubitt: Oh my god, yeah.
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Kris Hiney: I mean, to me, I think some guideposts to, like, you're gonna be… everybody, you're gonna be shown a lot of ads, right? And it tracks, like, how long your eyes were on something, for heaven's sakes, like, so, like, what it's gonna start to feed into what you're gonna be delivered. And remember, right, so those are controlled by algorithms, because you looked into something, you're gonna get more and more and more and more of those things advertised.
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Kris Hiney: Correct. And all of those statements on social media, right, if you're a company, are filtered.
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Kris Hiney: They don't leave the negative things there.
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Tania Cubitt: Yes.
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Kris Hiney: So, everything is going to say, this was the most amazing thing ever.
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Tania Cubitt: Absolutely, yes, yes. And I think that we… we started this conversation with, do your research as far as doing it, literature-based research, but now I think… I think where people are going to have to do
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Tania Cubitt: actually do their research, because a lot aren't going to get on the internet and spend hours searching. But, it's how do you critically, …
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Tania Cubitt: analyze information that is given to you from companies. And I, am very proud of the fact that every company that I work with, we are very transparent, and we encourage people
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Tania Cubitt: to call the office, and oftentimes I am the nutritionist, so they will put me in touch… them in touch with me.
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Tania Cubitt: and ask questions. If you're not sure.
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Tania Cubitt: call and ask the questions. If it's very hard to find a phone number for somebody to call, or you're just getting a secretary that can't answer the questions for you.
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Tania Cubitt: then I'm a little…
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Tania Cubitt: leery, just from that point. So, if you read something that sounds too good to be true in marketing,
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Tania Cubitt: Don't be afraid to call and say.
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Tania Cubitt: well, how did you actually come up with this? Is this just one testimonial that said you turned a horse from gray to chestnut? Or did, like, 100 horses actually turn from gray to chestnut? Don't be afraid to actually ask
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Tania Cubitt: the company trying to sell you to justify their statements. And if they're good, they will tell you. And if they're trying to hide things, or say, oh, that's proprietary, we can't tell you,
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Tania Cubitt: Maybe that's not… The supplement that… or feed that you want to go with.
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Kris Hiney: Yeah, and I… we're trying to make things easier for people to navigate, so we're trying to, you know…
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Kris Hiney: And I think it's important to understand the process that when we say, do your research, where it comes from, and kind of, like, our perspective of where it's coming from, and how we provide answers. So when…
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Kris Hiney: you know, if they're contacting a supplement company, theoretically, or whatever, the product company, theoretically, they should have had people, am I not right, that would have…
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Kris Hiney: Participated in that thoughtful process.
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Kris Hiney: To make it so.
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Tania Cubitt: Correct.
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Kris Hiney: Another stretch of the imagination.
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Tania Cubitt: No, and I think, also, one of the first questions I ask is, whether it's my dog or cat food or horse food, is, I have some questions that I would like to ask your PhD nutritionist.
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Tania Cubitt: And if they don't have one of those on staff, then I'm… I'm…
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Tania Cubitt: very curious as to how they come up with all their statements and, you know, research and study… design of their products, etc. You know, products that somebody decided.
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Tania Cubitt: I really wanted to make a horse treat for horses, and I'm… anybody can make anything, and I think that that is…
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Tania Cubitt: The… the consumer…
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Tania Cubitt: believes that there's a lot more integrity in a lot of companies, and… and it's like, my kids are growing up, and I don't want to, …
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Tania Cubitt: alert them to the fact that there's bad things that go on in the world. I would love for them to just be naive their whole life, and not believe that there are bad people out there. But they're 11 and 10, so we're having conversations now about bad people that hang out on the internet, and not every stranger at the skate park is a friend of yours, and they might want to steal you, you know, crazy stuff like this, but I think that
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Tania Cubitt: Of course, consumers, consumers of anything,
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Tania Cubitt: You know, follow the money. Companies want to sell you a product, and some companies have more
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Tania Cubitt: ethics than others, but it also doesn't necessarily mean that any science or any, education or anything has gone into developing these products. When you develop and sell a product, there's no criteria, there's no checkbox when you register that product in a state that says.
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Tania Cubitt: you know, I scientifically tested this, I, did palatability trials, so I made sure a bunch of horses would actually eat it, or, you know, this…
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Tania Cubitt: You don't have to do any of that. I can mix something in my kitchen, and I can write whatever I want.
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Tania Cubitt: About its, you know, what… all the cool things that it will do.
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Tania Cubitt: And there's only very few things that are actually regulated. Like, the guaranteed analysis, actually is very, very limited. The American Association of Feed Control offices, it's very limited what you actually have to put on a tag.
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Tania Cubitt: So… you know.
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Tania Cubitt: There's a lot of garbage that goes on tags and, …
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Tania Cubitt: I would say… I would take a step back, and I would retract that statement, and say.
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Tania Cubitt: A tag is a legally binding document.
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Tania Cubitt: So what's written on the tag, if I was looking at a website and marketing material, and it's just like, oh my god, pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, follow it and you're gonna find it.
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Tania Cubitt: tag…
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Tania Cubitt: It doesn't say a lot of that stuff, because that is a legally binding document, versus the website and marketing materials is not.
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Tania Cubitt: So, more of the fact will actually be on the tag.
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Kris Hiney: That's good information. And it was just when you were talking about they can claim anything, like, my, you know.
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Kris Hiney: popular press or media, it would be, like, Shark Tank. You can go on Shark Tank and claim your thing does anything, right? So, like, and I'm always amazed that they're like, this nutritional thing will do this. I was like, but who's saying? And they're like, I just researched it and made it. I was like, no.
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Tania Cubitt: Huh?
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Kris Hiney: Exactly. But your company's worth $2 million, so I get it. Yeah. Oh, goodness.
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Kris Hiney: Alright, so at the end, I always like to do…
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Kris Hiney: a recap summary, right? Gotcha. So, I know, bullet list of what we just talked about.
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Tania Cubitt: We're gonna make our abstract right now.
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Kris Hiney: That's right, right. So, in 150 words. …
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Kris Hiney: If we're gonna tell people to do your research.
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Kris Hiney: If I had to pick, I'm gonna limit it to…
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Kris Hiney: Four things. I'm gonna make this really hard for you.
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Kris Hiney: Four things you're gonna tell people to do, to do their research, to help them.
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Tania Cubitt: Okay, so, number one, if you're going to use AI, use the prompt, show me scientific references. I think that will help.
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Tania Cubitt: Strengthen the information that you get from that source.
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Kris Hiney: I like that one.
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Tania Cubitt: Yep.
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Tania Cubitt: Number two.
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Tania Cubitt: Whilst you might want to ask questions into strangers on social media platforms, every single person's situation is different, horse is different, and so maybe that might get you pointed in a direction, but do not take anything as gospel that you get there, because
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Tania Cubitt: horses are like people in every scenario, management, feeding, genetics, everything, phenotype, it's all completely different, so you can't… you can't just hang your hat on the information you get there. …
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Tania Cubitt: I don't know what number 3 was, I'll make you do number 3. Number 4 for me is what I finish every webinar I ever do, is
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Tania Cubitt: You've got to have good people in your corner that you can trust, that you can bounce ideas off, because no matter how good you're doing at 1, 2, and 3, you're still going to sometimes be confused or not sure, and you need, you know, a nutritionist that's going to tell you the truth, a veterinarian, if they've focused on nutrition or have any interest in nutrition.
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Tania Cubitt: Or even just other supplements. This isn't just nutrition. I am a nutritionist, but maybe it's a joint supplement.
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Tania Cubitt: Or doing joint injections or something. So, a veterinarian that you know is going to tell you the truth, so that you then have people that when you're like, oh, this sounds so cool, I want to try it, they're going to be like, well, maybe you can try it, and if after 30 days.
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Tania Cubitt: whatever. But people that you know are going to tell you the truth. Number three… I don't know what…
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Tania Cubitt: What would you… what would you….
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Kris Hiney: I mean, I think, to me, it's like…
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Kris Hiney: Maybe being a little bit more critical about
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Kris Hiney: what you read in ads. Like, think more critically about it, and not, like, this sounds good, but does this make sense? And I know, like, we've been through all kinds of physiology classes, and there is a deeper level of knowledge.
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Kris Hiney: about animal systems that I have because of all the things I've done, right? So it's a little easier for me to be like, that didn't make sense. Yeah. But, like, think about that. Just, like, does that actually make logical sense in that statement?
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Tania Cubitt: And I think that you could even go one step further and say, okay, the content that you'll be giving.
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Tania Cubitt: whether it's coming from a magazine, an ad, a scientific journal, a recap, a Facebook group, like, what was the purpose of that source of information? If it was an ad, then…
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Tania Cubitt: There is a purpose of an ad. The purpose is to sell the product.
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Tania Cubitt: I… you… I see a lot of, like, the Pollock Report, or thehorse.com, and…
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Tania Cubitt: they oftentimes have an article that they've read, and it's their person's interpretation of what they went to one of these scientific meetings, or they saw a paper that was cool, and then they've kind of interpret it, and they will reference their little… the scientific article. And so, when I look at
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Tania Cubitt: the purpose of that was actually just to educate a consumer and get nothing out of it, other than they want you to read their articles. So, I think also being
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Tania Cubitt: Back to your… If it's an ad. Being critical of what the intention of the…
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Tania Cubitt: Place where this information is coming from is.
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Tania Cubitt: what's the intention? And I think any kind of ad… I don't want to say every ad is misleading, but…
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Tania Cubitt: An ad is…
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Tania Cubitt: is biased. They want you to buy the thing. And maybe the thing is great, but go into it knowing.
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Tania Cubitt: that's the intention. The intention of Facebook groups is just to spew multiple opinions. But the, like, for me, that's why we go to scientific references often, because the intention of that
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Tania Cubitt: should be to expand the wider scientific knowledge. Like, as scientists, our goal is to share scientific knowledge so that we can continue to layer on layer on layer and understand,
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Tania Cubitt: You know, scientific topics.
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Kris Hiney: No, I think that's… that's good. So hopefully people got some… some takeaways from that. We did good by not naming a particular product, which is always hard for me. I'm like, I have great examples, but, like.
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Tania Cubitt: I guess.
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Kris Hiney: my job. So, no, I think that's super useful, and I love, like, teaching them how to use those prompts the right way, so that it's really getting to what we want, just not random. How often does a Border Collie blink?
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Tania Cubitt: To look that up now.
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Kris Hiney: Oh, it'll tell ya, and like, she even found it and chuckled about it, so anyhow.
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Tania Cubitt: Well, here's just a little side note, because I'm actually… I'm doing a summit with all of my clients soon, and one of our topics is AI, and Dr. Duren, the person that I work with, Dr. Steven Duren, I would consider him one of the best equine nutritionists in the world right now.
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Tania Cubitt: And I asked.
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Tania Cubitt: ChatGPT to tell me the best equine nutritionist in the world. His name did not come up, and then I asked it specifically, what are your thoughts on Dr. Steven Duren with Performance Horse Nutrition? And they said, we know nothing about him. He must not be good.
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Tania Cubitt: Because he doesn't post a lot of stuff on the internet. So, ChatGPT has no idea who he is.
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Tania Cubitt: So, again, that's just kind of a law.
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Tania Cubitt: It was an internal joke, but again, that just shows you, like, there's some content that isn't getting posted on the internet, and so when you ask the internet for it, they're gonna be like, I don't know what you're talking about.
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Kris Hiney: Right, and this person, you know, kind of just to expand that story, and hopefully not take up too much more of your time, this person has a big following, she has a big presence, and is a good part, like, this is not a fake person, like, they do really, really good work.
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Kris Hiney: And so there are a lot of people that follow, seek information, so she has that bigger presence, and so when she made up a silly, like, she was astounded that, like.
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Kris Hiney: Oh, you gotta be kidding me. Exactly, exactly. Oh, funny.
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Kris Hiney: Well, I super, super appreciate your time, and thank you so much for coming back, to our Tack Box Talk, because it was a fun conversation at ESS. But again, I think it's really good for listeners just to understand our process and kind of how these things get out into the world, so that's super, super helpful.
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Tania Cubitt: Not a problem. Great being on.
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Kris Hiney: Alright, well, this has been another episode of our Tack Box Talk, Horse Stories with a Purpos