The Athletes Podcast
The Athletes Podcast is a leading source of information, inspiration, and education for anyone interested in optimizing physical performance, maintaining good health, and living an active lifestyle. Join David Stark as he interviews some of the world's biggest athletes and fitness professionals, The Athletes Podcast provides practical advice, expert insights, and real-world strategies to help listeners achieve their health and fitness goals.The goal is to entertain, educate & inspire the next generation of athletes!
The Athletes Podcast
From MMA Fighter to Fire Service Leader: The Inspiring Journey of Dr. David Griffin
Episode #237 of the show features Assistant Chief Dr. David Griffin of the Charleston Fire Department. An international speaker, best selling author, who shares his incredible story. From the adrenaline rush of MMA fighting and Ironman triathlons to the disciplined world of academia, Dr. Griffin's journey is a testament to relentless ambition and unwavering resilience. His athletic discipline paved the way for a career marked by professional excellence and a deep commitment to functional fitness and mental fortitude.
Tune in as we explore the mindset that propels athletes to maintain peak performance, even into their later years. Drawing inspiration from personal anecdotes, such as a marathon-running 73-year-old mother, and legendary figures like Muhammad Ali, Dr. Griffin discusses balancing high-stakes professional roles with thrilling physical activities. Discover the therapeutic power of poetry and the importance of vulnerability and creativity. Essential tools for self-improvement, such as Nate Zinsser's "The Confident Mind" and David Goggins' motivational philosophy, are also highlighted to help you achieve continuous growth.
Education is the cornerstone of Dr. Griffin's professional evolution, and he shares how academic advancements have become integral to the fire service. Learn about the transformative impact of higher education on professional capabilities and career advancement, supported by initiatives like Charleston's tuition reimbursement program. Reflecting on his transformation from a petrified 17-year-old to a resilient leader, Dr. Griffin underscores the importance of mental health, authentic leadership, and the drive to leave a lasting legacy.
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Because to me, in a profession you know Conor McGregor says it very well he changed the game. He changed the game of mixed martial arts. If you're in a profession and you're not trying to change the game and take it to another level, then really what are you doing?
Speaker 2:He's spoken in 46 states, three countries, over 1,200 organizations and half a million people. This is Dr David Griffin, the assistant chief at the Charleston Fire Department and someone who I have the pleasure of chatting with for the next 45 minutes here on the Athlete's Podcast. He's a previous pro baseball player and pro MMA fighter. He inspires others to live your dash. What does that mean? Let's get into it on the 237th episode of the Athlete's Podcast today, featuring Dr David Griffin, powered by Perfect Sports, here we go.
Speaker 2:Next generation of athletes, from underdogs to national champions. This is the Athletes Podcast, where high-performance individuals share their triumphs, defeats and life lessons to educate, entertain and inspire the next generation of athletes. Here we go. We get to learn a bit more about Dr David Griffin here today on the Athletes Podcast who, before I started recording, was saying that you were probably the ideal individual to highlight on the show, given your extensive experience within the fire service athletic performance aside, probably one of the best leaders, arguably the most academically uh, what we'll call it? Uh highlighted individual within the fire service, maybe. Welcome to the Athletes Podcast. Assistant Chief Griffin. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm excited to share more about your story because you probably got one of the most interesting lives to date.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it, man, glad to be here. Love talking athletics and love talking about the fire service and even academics. I'm a little bit of a nerd, a lot of an athlete and a lot of a firefighter. So yeah, it's all wrapped in one.
Speaker 2:The first question we have to start off with, because, for those at least who are watching, they will know how the heck do you keep such a meticulous mustache?
Speaker 1:Oh man, I don't know. It kind of started a few years ago just as a challenge with some of some of the guys I worked with. I did it for november, which is november, and I kind of liked it. And then I started to change it. I kind of morphed it to the sides a little bit and but it's, you know, I take it very serious. I have wax, I have oil, I brush it, so yeah, it's, it's. It's kind of important that you do the mustache right 100 caldera labs, a partner.
Speaker 2:They send me some products. I'm sure they're going to be all over you and trying to get you some stuff because it's legit. If you're not watching on YouTube, head on over, subscribe and check it out. It's legit. Let's get to the actual nitty gritty of this episode, though, because I am just going to read off what the heck you've done between playing college baseball at the Citadel from 98 to 02, which is a military military college pro ball.
Speaker 2:From 02 to 04. Retired from pro ball, started interstate bodybuilding champ in 06 no big deal. Mma. From 07 to 2010, you retired from that, decided to start up iron man's triathlons, run some marathons, and now you're just a functional fitness fanatic enjoying Muay Thai, kickboxing no big deal. Also while performing the full-time role of firefighter, captain, engineer, etc. And achieving I don't know how many different degrees, diplomas, certifications along the way. How the heck does someone at 26 years old go back to school after a conversation with your counselor? Can you share the story, because I think maybe this all ties in with the sofa store, but I'll let you explain it because you're going to do a better job than I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. You know I was kind of lost and confused, but athletics was always my staple of my life. That was constant. Anytime I was stressed mentally, physically, I could go back and work out. So I always found some type of journey in athletics. So playing baseball started it. I want to be a big league baseball player. So you know, I made it to the minor leagues, had a hard time hitting with a wooden bat, which is kind of a big deal, so my contract got released from there.
Speaker 1:I always wanted to be a bodybuilder when I was a kid because I was very small, I was picked on as a little kid and I wanted to honestly see how big I could get. So I ended up, you know, my heaviest. I was 260 pounds and it was pretty incredible to feel 260 pounds on a five foot nine body. So I had enough of that after a few years. And this is when mixed martial arts was kind of in its infancy and I was really determined to try this because I had wrestled in high school and I really wanted to go to the combat side. So I started rolling jujitsu and boxing and kickboxing and wrestling again and you know, after a few months, man, I was hooked. So in the middle of all that, I'm going to a counselor for the issues I'm having after we had our line of duty death, and I'm talking through these issues with my counselor and I have this desire inside of me to learn more about leadership. So I just decided to take a leap of faith and go back to school and just see what I could do. And you know, my plan was to start with a master's degree and then roll it right into an EDD, which is an education doctorate, and that was my plan. I talked about it for about two months and then finally I just jumped into it and five and a half years later I was finished with it. And you know, during that time it was very stressful having the academic side, but I was also going to work as a shift firefighter, 24 on 48 off. There was some time during there that I was on day work too, where I went to the training division to be a training captain basically. But I always had athletics to fall back on during that stress.
Speaker 1:And you know, when I stopped fighting I went to Ironman triathlons and I didn't know how to swim. I legitimately could not swim. So I go down to the Martin Luther King pool downtown off of a meeting street and I go in there and I'm 260 pounds, I don't know how to swim and I'm determined to run a Ironman triathlon. So this giant dude gets in the water and I swim for maybe three yards and I literally can't go any further because I'm out of breath and I'm just too big. And I remember the lifeguard coming up to me and asking me like, do you know how to swim? I said no, but I can teach myself. So every day I went there and I swam three yards, four yards, five yards, and I could swim a lap and then I swam two laps and then, you know, a year and a half later I swam 2.4 miles.
Speaker 1:So my mind just tells me that I can do anything I put my mind to. I don't think there's limits on the human body If you train it to a certain level athletically and you take care of it with recovery and diet and nutrition. I think if you have these dreams and desires, you got to go chase them. And you know, while I was doing that, I was also in school trying to learn about leadership and I was writing my dissertation. So it was a very interesting time. But I say all that with the caveat that I don't have any children. So I don't have kids, so I have a lot of time that I'm able to do these different things. But that was by intention. As a young man, I did not want children. I wanted to live this life of adventure. I wanted to do things that were full of adrenaline and just made me feel alive. And I'm glad I did, because I'm you know, I'm 43 years old and I still feel like I have a lot left.
Speaker 2:I have to prove to myself athletically yeah, built by design, that's pretty incredible, and to have accomplished what you have at the age of 43 is nothing short of phenomenal. I love the way that you talk about the fact that education makes you think differently, and I've heard you say one of your terms is live in your dash, and I'd love for you to elaborate on that.
Speaker 1:I mean you get one life. You know, live your dash means live your message, live what you believe in. You know I'm sitting in my gym. This is in my house. This isn't something I go to the gym to talk to people, to hang out with them, to high five them, to fist bump them. When I come home from work, first thing I do is change my clothes and I get in this gym and I do work, because it's what makes me feel good physically and mentally, but it also lets me take out that stress that I have.
Speaker 1:But a part of my dash is being an athlete forever. When I'm 70 years old, I want to be an athlete. I want to be pushing weight, running, swimming, biking, running marathons. I mean my mom's 73 and she runs marathons. So I have the genetics to do it. It's just the mindset you have to keep throughout your life and I want to continue to do that.
Speaker 1:So that's not just with athletics, that's, you know, with everything in my life, with my travel, with my speaking. You know there's all these things that I really had a desire to challenge myself and live a life that was full of challenges and full of things that tested me and you know, if I feel like I don't have that adrenaline rush every day, I kind of don't feel alive, and you know it's it's kind of hard. In my current position, I'm the admin chief, so a lot of my day is spreadsheets and budget, and so when I get off work I have to go find something to get that adrenaline. And you know, whether it's skateboarding, paddleboarding, working out jet skiing, whatever I mean, I'm going to do something because it's just who I am and that's how I live my dash.
Speaker 2:I love it. And you're putting together poems at the same time sharing those on social media. I love it.
Speaker 1:Man, I got into poems a few months ago. It was a way that I really love music. I've always loved music. I don't have any musical talent as in playing an instrument or singing, but I've always been able to put rhymes together for some reason. That actually makes sense like journaling. But it's just writing poems, and so I've really gotten into this. I started reading some really well-established poets and I've started to learn from them and I'm trying to chain my cadence up and so I'm really into this deep. I probably have about I don't know 15 or 20 poems written already, and I write them in this little polka dot book, which I think is awesome because it's polka dot, it's soft, it's vulnerable. But here I am, this, you know, athletic, 43 year old, and I'm not afraid to write down my feelings in a little notebook. So I think they play hand in hand a lot of times.
Speaker 2:Is Muhammad Ali on that list of poets that you're researching?
Speaker 1:Yes, I read a lot about Muhammad Ali and I actually have a poster on my wall over here with Muhammad Ali. You know Ali talking about one of his famous quotes. So yeah, he's a very big inspiration in that realm too.
Speaker 2:Heck yeah, stinging like a bee. One of the things that you brought up earlier in the conversation was kind of that mental fortitude that comes from those endurance events. I just finished my first half marathon in Calgary and, to your point, the confidence that comes from doing something like that, accomplishing a feat, whether it's running for two hours, four hours, whatever it is unmatched, absolutely doesn't, can't get beat. Um, I also recently read the confident mind by nate zisser. I believe I'm screwing the name up from west point academy. Have you read that book?
Speaker 1:I have not.
Speaker 2:So phenomenal I can't recommend it enough. Um, one of the I I was reading through Reddit comments and I have to share one of them because it's so phenomenal and I know that you will probably appreciate it. Uh, it says, bought the book is the new Bible of sports psychology. I'm serious, zinsser is a precious find. Maybe he's too comfortable in his salary, tenured position at West Point to worry about self-promotion. He doesn't need to find you, you need to find him. I thought it was phenomenal because we, as athletes, tend to try and source out. You know, get that 1% better every single day when there's the best of the best, doing what they do, researching on a daily basis and they've got all this insight and wisdom. You have to go source that out too. It's kind of like what people have to do to find your stuff right, yeah, yeah, absolutely it's.
Speaker 1:You know, you have to find that inspiration and I'm a big fan of David Goggins, you know, stay hard, like I believe in that, because in the athletic mindset I mean you have to stay hard, you have to get out there, you have to put the work in, have to stay hard, you have to get out there, you have to put the work in, put the miles in, put the time in, whatever your focus is.
Speaker 1:But for me, I try to find inspiration from all of those different people. But if you don't, you're not pushing yourself every single day to that 1%, 2%, I mean you can easily get complacent in life, thinking okay, I have a great job, a great position, I can just kind of coast and enjoy my life, and I mean that's just not me, enjoy my life, and I mean that's just not me, like I don't. I think for the human spirit inside of everyone, you have to have that love and desire to do just something more than wake up every morning and go to bed every night, like to me. I just have so much more in my heart that I want to do and you know, some days it's just burning so much. I just got to go run as hard as I can, as long as I can. It's for some reason. It's the way I'm built.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:I mean I miss the fighting is awesome to me in the cage because it's the sport in life. To where, before the fight, you're doing interviews, you're talking, there's this and that, but when you get in the cage and they close the door, there's no more talking. There's no more I'm playing this game or this game behind your back, or this or that. There's no more of that. It's you versus you and the best person is going to win. Who who trained the hardest and who's the mentally tough. And that's why I liked it so much, because I thrived in that environment.
Speaker 1:When that cage locked behind me, something just went off in me. I was locked in. I didn't get emotional. I never got upset. It was just that physical chess match that I liked because the talking stopped. It was you either put your money where your mouth is fighting and you win, or you lose. You come up the next day and you train more. So it's definitely the most fun sport I've ever played because it's on you. Yes, you have a team who is training you, but when that cage locks, it's a different feeling. When someone's looking at you across the cage and that ref says let's get it on, it's a different feeling because at that point you realize this person is trying to hurt you and it's either fight, flight or freeze. And you know, some people get in there for their first fight and they freeze and that's why 20 seconds in is done. But when you get hit the first time you either know if you love it or you hate it.
Speaker 2:And the first time I got hit I said man, I'm hooked, let's keep going yeah, if you type in david griffin, ufc, or like last man standing at something it's, you can tell you've got that passion and you like didn't seem like it fazed you one bit. Once that door locked you were after it and it was. I had to bring it up because my buddy, who we featured on the show a couple years ago, lucas body I don't know if you saw the highlight last week from jake paul's fights- yeah you know that one where he caught him with like a three straight piece.
Speaker 2:You saw that.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, crazy, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Lucas go ahead.
Speaker 1:I was just saying I love watching Jake Paul, like what he's done for boxing and what he's done for just athletics in general. Much respect to the guy because in my opinion I'm not a boxing expert, but he has put the work in, man, he trains hard, he can speak very well on a microphone, he has a huge following and when he gets in the ring he throws his hands and he puts in work. So, man, every fight he has, I buy the fights, I watch them all. I love to watch his style and his demeanor. So, yeah, much respect to him.
Speaker 2:It is quite the accomplishment that he and his brother have been able to just put together this kind of media masterclass where they've developed billion-dollar brands. They're fighting world-class athletes without any actual previous experience getting into it. Kudos to them. Also, kudos to Lucas for the KO of the year Phenomenal. Had to give him a shout-out on the podcast A previous guy. We'll be getting him on when we get back into Niagara. But I do have to ask you've got all this academic experience and you're in a profession that typically is almost pushing away academia to some degree at least. When you become a recruit, you're onboarded. They want to be almost giving you the rules once you get on the job. Right, am I wrong?
Speaker 1:Well, it's changed a lot. I'm in my 20th year and you know, when I came on it was just a different mentality. It was you learned on the job from those who did it previous to you and that was good. It was the way you learn. But today the education piece is so big. Like in our department, we have a tuition reimbursement program, so we actually pay 85% of our personnel's cost to go to college. For each degree and each degree that you graduate with, you get a 7% raise. So if you think about this in holistic terms, we're going to pay you 85% to go get your degree. Once you finish the degree that we have paid you to go get, we're going to give you a 7% raise. Plus, on top of all of that, the knowledge, the experience and just the understanding of the world today from that education is there. So it's changed a lot. There are a lot of people that are going to higher education the fire service now. It allows you to sit at the table with decision makers and have that discussion, because they understand you're educated just like they are, and so the playing field is a little bit more level, and I truly am an advocate of that.
Speaker 1:And when I started my doctoral program I mean I was in my mid, I was in my late twenties and I, you know, I graduated when I was 32 and that was kind of intimidating at 32. I was an engineer in my department and you know I graduated with my education doctorate. It wasn't because I wanted to be smart, it was because I just had this desire to learn more and to see can we push our academics in our profession. And it's that we can, because now there are countless people that in my profession that are getting their doctoral research done. In the last three weeks I've sat on three fire chiefs doctoral defense of their dissertations, and so it's just neat to see this grow all of the time because our profession is getting much smarter. We have, I believe, at least two in my department now who are currently studying for their doctorate and there's one other. She's in our fire marshal division. She also has her PhD.
Speaker 2:So this is something that we've really taken serious in our department. Good for you. That is phenomenal to hear, and I've talked with hundreds of departments now across North America with expert VR. Is that just with the city of Charleston? Is that something that you've introduced, because I know you've been there for almost two decades now and, like you've been an integral piece about, you know, introducing these aspects to the city of Charleston.
Speaker 1:That's actually been there before. I was there. So when I came they had the tuition reimbursement program but I had my bachelor's from the Citadel and I didn't think about going back to school until after the fire. But after the fire I started doing some research and they were advertising tuition reimbursement and I was. I said to myself, wow, if they're going to pay to go to college like this is a win-win. I'm going to get educated, they're going to help me pay for it. And so I started doing that.
Speaker 1:And then after that you saw a lot of people following along in line because they were curious about the educational piece. So it was there before I started and it's continued and I, you know, my hat's off to our city because they do a good job of they don't have to do that. When I go to places other fire departments and I tell them about our tuition reimbursement program, you know some of them say, all right, stop explain that again because they think they heard me wrong. It's a very, very good program to have for your personnel. Wrong, it's a very, very good program to have for your personnel. And I'm glad I am tuition reimbursement educated. I can say that, thankfully to the city I work in and that I'm very passionate about. They helped me pay for my education through the tuition reimbursement program, and I always try to advertise that to our younger firefighters too.
Speaker 2:So incredible, Sensational Shout out to the city of Charleston for that. So incredible, so like sensational shout out to the city of Charleston for that. Since we're on the topic of education, do you have a degree that means the most to you or that was a pivotal moment for you? I mean, you've got Yale, you've got Cornell on here, you've got Harvard university, like I mean some pretty established institutions. Was there one in particular that, um, maybe hit at the right time or that you sourced out that really put you over the top or you felt like made a significant difference?
Speaker 1:I think the Citadel by far. It set me up to who I am today. When I went there I was 17 years old so I was young for my class and I was petrified. I was absolutely petrified of what was going to happen. I remember the first day of hell week when they were yelling at me. I mean I was physically shaking so bad. My cadre sergeant was yelling at me, griffin, stop shaking. And I remember saying sir, I can't stop. Sir, I was like so scared I didn't know what to do. But I remember during that week I had a chance to call my dad and I was on the phone with him and I was upset, I was crying.
Speaker 1:I was 17 years old, I was homesick, even though I was like 30 minutes away from where I grew up, and he told me he goes, I'm coming to get you, and in that moment I said no, you're not. I hung the phone up and after that it was, it was over. Like that moment in my life switched me from being that weak minded person to where I was going to let that beat me, to where I was like this is not going to beat me. And then from there on it just allowed me to grow on that mental toughness side.
Speaker 1:And then, playing baseball, my coach, fred Jordan he was the coach at the Citadel and he just had this mentality of intestinal fortitude and everything he did was to build you to be mentally tough so you don't get stressed. You're stoic in times of stress, and that's how he built us for four years. And so I walked out of there after four years and I felt like a different human being and I've tried to hold onto that my entire life because it's who I am. It's authentic to me. I am intense, I believe in a specific type of leadership, I believe in athleticism, I believe in academics, I believe in passion and I can't, I can't, not be me. It's just who I am.
Speaker 2:It's just who I am. I appreciate it so much because, in this day and age, we get a lot of vanilla we'll call it and you need some pizzazz, you need some excitement, you need some people who are going to be game changers, who are going to ultimately set a standard that other people can follow, and it sounds like you've been a leader, whether you were on the field, in the cage or now in the fire service. Can you speak to what that's been like over the years, maybe as a younger 20s, not knowing what you were doing and that people were following, and now seeing the impact that you can have, speaking to over 1,200 organizations? Multiple countries organizations multiple countries, 500,000 people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was heavy when I first started because I was really young. When I first started speaking, I was 32. I was very young in my career. I only had eight years on the job.
Speaker 1:A lot of people didn't understand why I was doing it. They thought I was doing it because I wanted to make this big name for myself. That was never my desire. My desire was to teach this specific class about what happened on June 18th, just one time at a conference, because I wanted them to hear from someone who was there and had lived through it as a method of inspiration. And then, after that, it's just morphed into mental health and leadership. And you know I can't control how this morphs into other avenues in my life. But what I will say is, my dad always told me, if you do things for the right reasons, good things will happen. And I went into that first time teaching this class for the right reasons. And you know, 13 years later, I'm still doing this and I'm I'm blown away and I'm I'm very honored to do that and I honored to me.
Speaker 1:As a cliche word people use all the time on social media posts. You know I don't. A lot of people put that on social media posts. They want to brag about what they're doing. I'm literally saying I'm honored because I'm just a guy that started in the fire service 20 years ago, that scrubbed toilets, had this terrible event happen to a department in a city and I just had this desire to speak about and to show that what we have done as a city and a department, we have come together and we have made a difference, not just with the people who are there, but the people who are there now. You know, the 300 plus new members of our department that are in the city and are working and striving to be better.
Speaker 1:And I've always tried to set that example, because to me, in a profession you know Conor McGregor says it very well he changed the game. He changed the game of mixed martial arts. If you're in a profession and you're not trying to change the game and take it to another level, then really what are you doing? That's the whole goal. So one day, when I'm gone and the next generation is gone, they're doing better than I did. They're doing better than the generation before me. And there's a core group of guys I work with, you know, I mentor them and I work with them because, you know, one day, when I retire, I hope they're better, smarter, better leaders than I ever was. To me, that's just the mentor side of it and you know, it's truly what I believe in. So, yeah, I feel like sometimes I am a little, I'm a little bit different of a leader, but I'm okay with that because I'm not afraid to be me and it's it's the passion that comes out of me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you got to leave the place that you're working or that you live in better than you found it Right, and that's a lost art nowadays because everything is transactional and things happen at such a fast pace and unfortunately, we've lost those kind of values that we were raised with or that you were raised with growing up. I guess it brings up a question that I always like to ask around parents, people who instilled those values, coaches Is there anyone that in particular comes to mind? I know maybe your dad saying he was coming was what you needed to not get that. Anyone else come to mind?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean my dad a big influence on me because as a kid he always had time to work with me. I'd always go to him and ask him dad, will you hit me ground balls, will you throw me batting practice? And no matter what he was doing, he would go out there and bless his heart. He would do it as long as he had to do it, until it was dark, and he always was there to help me work. Whatever I was doing, whether it was bodybuilding, baseball, mixed martial arts he was always a part of all that. But my coach in college I already mentioned him, but Freddie Jordan, he was a big influence on my life still is today.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of stuff that he taught me in baseball that I have to use today in my leadership position when there's challenging times or I'm having difficult conversations or I'm trying to inspire someone the right way. With the different generations that we work with, we have multi-generations in our organization. I have people in my department that have six months on the job and we have one who's the bullfrog. He's the bullfrog because it's named after the seal with the longest amount of time, so we kind of morph that into our department. He's been there 39 years and so all these different generations. You have to somehow figure out how to inspire them and you know the? My coach in college taught me how to do that at different times and he really made me the person I am today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going through trying to get firefighters acquainted with virtual reality training and the the newer generation is more open to it versus the the bullfrogs we'll call them uh, who've maybe never thrown on a headset before. But uh, to your point, earlier is leaving the place better than you found it. Introducing new training methodologies, incorporating education research, so that you can maybe find new modalities to train I've heard even yourself using cryotherapy cleaner eating nowadays compared to what you were doing 10, 20 years ago. It's important to start incorporating these new things that we see in technology as we make advancements and not continue to just do the same thing because we've done it for the last 50 years, right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I'm a big advocate of that. I believe Babe Ruth said the statement he said yesterday's home runs don't win today's games. And I'm a big fan of that because there's a time in this profession that you know my light will burn out. I will be at the pinnacle and then it will be time for me to step aside and someone else do better than me. And I say that because we have to be open to these training modalities.
Speaker 1:During COVID I couldn't go do any mixed martial arts or anything. So you know what I did? I bought a Quest and I did. There was a boxing trainer on that and I literally that's how I trained my boxing and it got so bad because, if you know anything about boxing, when you hit air it's really tough on your body, your shoulders, your joints. So I mean I'm doing these full rounds of five minutes and I'm punching air, but I'm looking into my virtual reality and I'm ducking and I'm slipping and I'm I mean I'm moving everything and I'm waking up the next day and my joints are hurting. But I will tell you, when I got back into normal sparring, I felt normal and I had just been working on the virtual reality of it. And so to your point, there's so many different things that we need to be trying. We can be be afraid to try that, because it's only going to make us better in the end I met someone two weeks ago down at the awe conference that was hosting a boxing vr.
Speaker 2:It might be the same one, is it? Billy bones boxing? Is that name? I that's like. What is the? There's a. I'm gonna butcher it, I'm gonna have to send the link afterwards in the comments, but I met him in person. He was one of the teams. He was a famous boxer and his team was developing it and I went through. I was gassed after and that's like a 5-10 minute quick round sparring, right, and yeah, that's the beauty of these technologies is the fact that we're able to use new things exposed, whether it's exposure therapy I know the main focus that we've been working on right now is also on the PTSD side right, and the mental health and decompression return to work. Why have we not explored this? We're doing it at the clinical level and my biggest argument is, like we've seen pilots and professional athletes use this technology for decades, why the heck are we not giving our first responders the same resources that they deserve? Because we ask them to perform the same way? Yeah, we give them a 10th of the resources.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely, and you know a lot of that goes back to just not knowing the system. This year we're having Fire Fusion. That's hosted in Charleston, it's the Firehouse Conference and it's focused on technology and a lot of virtual reality training and what we're trying to do with that partner with with Firehouse is to get that information out there. Because you're right, on the clinical side and professional sports and pilots, they have been doing this for decades. But why are we not using the same type of technology? It can make us better. I know there's driving simulators that I've done before and I will tell you that helped me so much transitioning into the seat of a fire apparatus and I just wish we would use that more. It cuts down on hours of the apparatus. It cuts down on getting the entire crew out in the street. You still have to do the live portion of that. But think about pilots how many hours they have to have to fly a plane. A lot of that is done in the chamber so they can get up in the air.
Speaker 2:It's, uh, I could go on for hours on this. This is literally, you know, my day job, but, uh, that I also am passionate about it because I had a dad who was a firefighter, grandfather was in the RCMP and my mom's an educator. So it's combining those kind of pillars, overlapping and, to your point, if you're in an industry and you're not trying to help it, what the heck are you doing? So, you know, since we added san diego fire, that's been a nice addition because, to your point, there's also people now in those organizations that are doing the research that are incorporating that educational piece, which is what we need to be able to show that it's not just. You know, we're never trying to replace live fire training, but there is sets and reps that can be done outside of that. To your point, even just turnout gear use alone, all of these different areas that can be minimized and it's actually going to be a cost saving.
Speaker 2:So, anyways, there's the pitch for Expert VR, the thrill of the show. We'll call it today and we'll have to get the city of Charleston set up with a pilot package or something, since you came on and gave us your time, but I do appreciate the fact that you see the value in it because, as you've seen in athletics too, even just training from a boxing perspective, you can now practice on something at your leisure 24-7, 365, and then go into that real-world environment. You've been exposed to it. You're not as stressed. What was your biggest aha moment as an athlete? If there was one, was it training, nutrition?
Speaker 1:I think for me, the biggest aha moment was actually sparring sparring compared to a real fight. So, if you can take this and this is going to go back to our point we were talking about virtual reality, but so take, think about sparringarring. When you're sparring, you're maybe 70 to 80 percent. Most of the time, you're not trying to hurt each other. You're working on your head movement, you're working on slipping, you're working on moving. You're not trying to hurt each other, because if you go 100 every day, you're going to have a tbi and you're going to have issues with your.
Speaker 1:You can't do that right yeah so now you spar for a while. You have two or three hard spars before you actually fight. You take about a week to recover, cut weight and then you fight 100 percent. What happens happens. You take that and think about now fighting fire. If you did live fire once a week, every week, your your chances of getting cancer are astronomical. No-transcript. For three months me and him were the only two instructors, and almost every day for three months we did a flashover simulator, which is basically pushing pressurized smoke into my pores. For three months I tasted like it, my urine smelled like it, my body smelled like it, like it was terrible. So I don't know what that's going to do to me now, or five or 10 years down the road. And now you start talking about these younger firefighters. We have to balance that the correct way. We got to stress them, but we have to make sure we're not also killing them in the same moment we're training them, and that's like a million dollar question no one can answer.
Speaker 2:Well, we're hoping we can make an impact right and drive this in a positive direction and, in your case, I'll make sure that we bring on the best research possible onto the Athletes Podcast so that if there is anything we can do from a PFAS standpoint, we can start addressing those concerns, because it's only more present every single day that we become aware of it and these different things come on, I guess. Um, I've heard you talk. I heard you mentioned cryotherapy, post-event decompression. Have you used palm cooling ever?
Speaker 1:I have not used palm cooling. It sounds really interesting okay.
Speaker 2:So I've got this, this piece here. It's called uh, it's called a narwhal. It's from apex cool labs. They sent me and we just had them on the show a couple weeks ago. But their main use cases for, like crossfitters athletes, for during the workout session. Essentially it's like a thermos cooler where you put like a little ice pack in there and it keeps your hands cool. We have this glabrous tissue on our hands and our the soles of our feet that actually helps you reduce your blood temperature so that it allows you to train longer, perform more sets.
Speaker 2:Anyway, they did some studies like 35% better recovery compared to like a creatine. So, all that being said, it was a Huberman episode. I'm not Huberman, I just like cool things and to try to test stuff out. I just like cool things and to try to test stuff out, but they're using it also for firefighters in Denver now for post-event as a way to cool down blood temperature regulation. And I was curious if you've incorporated anything. I know you said cryotherapy. What else are you mixing in over the past couple of decades, because you've been training for a long time and I'm sure you've tried out some different things.
Speaker 1:Absolutely man. Cryotherapy. I'm a big fan of that. I think it always like resets me. When I get out of that for three minutes I feel nice and calm mentally, but physically I feel better. On the recovery side, I like red light therapy. I've been a fan of that. That's really good I also.
Speaker 1:I like hot water. I know that's kind of counterintuitive for some people. They think it increases inflammation. Uh, but for me, for some reason, it has the opposite effect on my body. Cold water like a a per a plunge tank. It does good for me at a certain time, but it long, too long. It actually hurts my body. I think it may be because I have such arthritis just from, you know, destroying myself for the last however many 40 years, uh, but those are the things I love to do. I love massage, I love stretch, I love yoga. Just don't do it enough. I love rolling out the muscles. You know there's a lot of things recovery wise that you have to do, but you're not going to outwork a bad diet, so you have to eat right. And you know, a lot of people see what I eat and like. How do you eat that? And my response is I don't eat for taste, I don't eat for taste.
Speaker 1:I eat to perform and I eat to have the athletic mindset. Now, do I have a cheeseburger or a pizza every now and then? I absolutely do, because you have to have cheat meal, you need a little calorie. Sometimes it depends on what I'm doing and what I'm training for. But I think you know, the diet is the biggest part of that recovery and I've really, you know, in 25 years of athletics I've honed that in and I have an idea of what my body accepts. You know, carbohydrates are good, really good for me. For some reason, too much fat is not good. High protein is very good. So I kind of have that dialed in. I just have to follow it and be disciplined and you know, the Citadel kind of allowed me to do that, so it's pretty easy to follow it.
Speaker 2:So it's pretty easy to follow it. Dr Griffin mentions during this episode his diet a bit, about how food is something that he uses as fuel. We've talked about it in the past on this show. Whether you're trying to increase your protein, your carbohydrates or your fats, make sure you incorporate all three macronutrients into your diet and don't forget about those micronutrients. But one of the things that I've been doing personally to ensure that I maintain the muscle that I've worked so hard to build over the past decade is consuming a little extra diesel whey isolate protein powder from perfect sports. You can use the code to ap20 at checkout to save 20 yourself and just like I'm falling over for it, it's falling over for me and you folks can find out the benefits as well. Mitchell Hooper, world's strongest man, takes six scoops per day. I'm only at like two to three because, I'll be honest, that's all I need. I'm trying to hit 200 grams of protein per day. That's my goal weight. I'm sitting at 195 right now. We're working towards it. We got the Toronto Marathon in a couple months. We'll see what we can do in the meantime.
Speaker 2:Now let's get back to the episode featuring Dr David Griffin. Yeah, I mean, the Citadel sounds like what I've heard a lot of, like West Point, it's just you. You get ingrained. It's. This is healthy habits that, from a young age, are instilled. I there I'm. I have a theory that, with less and less individuals going to post-secondary education now, with, like YouTube being available and not costing you know a quarter million dollars to attend, uh, we might end up with people who have, I should say, like younger generation maybe that are lacking those skills that school teaches you Time management, how to handle stress, how to communicate with your peers effectively stuff like this podcast does too. Right, it's essential skills that I think that next gen is kind of maybe missing out on, and I loop myself into it. Right it's. This is a case where we need to be doing more as a society to help out, and that comes with being physically active, eating healthy, treating your body right, which most people aren't doing nowadays it's.
Speaker 1:It's and and to the point is, if people don't do it intentionally, I think they may just not know. Like for me, if I didn't have this background in athletics and someone teach me how to eat and fuel my body, I don't know if I would be the same type of athlete today. But once I got into it and I felt the recovery from that and I also liked how I felt when I was working out, I just kind of took it to the next level. So a lot of it is people just don't know. The other side of it is, if they've never done it, it's hard for them to get going. But once they get going and they see the results, they want to keep on going.
Speaker 1:But it's getting that discipline to live your life that way and I know people hate that it's a lifestyle. I mean it's a lifestyle. It's. You know I wake up in the morning to make sure I eat clean and work out and try to get enough sleep and it's, it is what helps me function in my life. And I think when you get on that routine it's hard to get off of it. Because what would I do for stress if I didn't work out? I'd probably do something. That's not good, you know. I'd rather work out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I know the exact feeling and I, my, my family now knows that if I haven't worked out, they can tell. And you're like, okay, yeah, like Dave needs to work out. And it's like crazy because it fixes the thing pretty damn quickly, right, and you spend 20 minutes in the sauna with your thoughts and you're a better human being afterwards. And I think that comes down to just biologically we're supposed to work as humans and we're supposed to go hunt, gather and make sure we're providing. And now, with everything being virtual there, there needs to be that happy medium.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we're trying to teach our new recruits that you know we've done a really good job of recruiting these last few years and we have a lot bigger recruiting class. We have a lot younger firefighters but to them it they live during a time of COVID. It's not their fault A lot of times when they were locked in their house for three years. So we we understand that and for me I have to do a better job on my end of acclimating to them than I think they do a better job to acclimate to me, because there's more in the workforce from the new generation of them than it is to me. So I actually find that as a challenge.
Speaker 1:I like the fresh ideas. I like the different type of personalities because I get to work with them and try to pull their true personality out of them. And when you see an 18 year old and then five years later you see them driving a fire truck, you're like man, look at this massive transformation you did. So we know it's possible, but I think you know a lot of times we go back to that excuse it's the new generation. I mean, I was the new generation one time, you were the new generation, my dad was the new generation and my dad's 75 and a Vietnam vet and fought two tours in Vietnam. So we've all said that about the next generation. But I think sometimes we just have to take a breath and realize they have a lot of good skill sets that we may not even know because we just keep saying they're the new generation. I love it, I'm glad we have the new generation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're not going to evolve if we don't have that next generation right. We're just going to stay stagnant and although there are industries that like to stay the same and not change, we hope to maybe enact change in those, whether it's a desire or not, because it needs to be done at the end of the day. I also want to leave some time here to let you share anything that you want to on this platform. Given what you've been able to accomplish over the past few decades, it's, first of all, an honor to be able to feature you on the show. I want to say thank you again for coming on.
Speaker 2:I know we haven't gone deep into you being the operator on that first engine when nine fellow firefighters passed away during that line of duty death. The reason why I became acquainted with you was because June 4th, you were in Kamloops for the BC Fire Chiefs Association, where I am currently in British Columbia, and I wanted to just leave some space here because you've made a tremendous impact and I feel like you get opportunities to speak all the time. You're getting asked to travel all around 47 states now currently three separate countries, but floor is yours, open floor. What message do you want to leave that next generation of athletes with. Is there specific lessons that you've acquired along the way that you think are important for them to maybe absorb today?
Speaker 1:I think, twofold. I like to talk athletes and firefighting too, but you know, on the athletic side, I would hope that as an athlete, you're always trying to evolve, you're always trying to change your training, find something that gets you excited about working out. There's certain times that I get a little bit burned out of doing the same routine, maybe for six, eight weeks. So, like this week's a recovery week, and on this recovery week I won't work out or train for seven days, and I know that's what my body needs, because I've tried to do deload weeks and it's just not the same impact for me. So I've tried these different things and I, yesterday I trained, and I won't train until next Monday, but I will eat very clean, I'll probably load up on some carbs, I'll drink a lot of extra water and I'll probably do a massage or two to try to get my body uh, the inflammation to go down and try to recover for that next week. So my point being that, as an athlete, if you're just hitting it every single day and you're not trying to change it up on the modalities and the recovery, you're going to hit a wall to where, eventually, you're burnt out mentally and your body's not going to recover physically. And so you know, I had a hip replacement seven months ago, total hip replacement. And you know I will say thankfully, because I kept myself in shape before and I had a very, very good physiotherapist. Within nine days after a full hip replacement I was walking unassisted and then about two weeks later I was doing one-legged squats and doing box-ops, and so that's a testament to someone that was able to train me and teach me how to do it correctly. But also, when your body is physically ready, it's able to fight off sickness, any type of injuries, a lot easier in the long run. You hope that you have a longer, healthier life.
Speaker 1:On the firefighting side, you know I haven't spoke much about June 18th. I think it is critical that I talk a little bit about that tonight. But the message from that is you have to realize that what we do is very serious and I always say you don't know what you don't know until you don't know, and then it's too late. You know, I didn't know what I didn't know. I was good intentioned, I thought I knew the job. I unfortunately was.
Speaker 1:I was, I was young, I was cocky, I was arrogant. I thought I knew the job I believed I worked in the best firefighting force because I worked with incredible people that what these guys could do fighting a fire is unbelievable to this day, and so I believed in it so much. But I didn't understand the severity of the event we were on and that our tactics weren't ready for that type of event. And so I went through that event just not understanding really what I saw and what I did. You know I made a lot of mistakes that night and I always take ownership of that because I feel like I failed the people I worked with that night.
Speaker 1:I feel like I failed myself and I'm always honest to that, because I want to own that and I want to be able to speak on that so the next generation can listen to this and realize that when you go to work, you have a critical job. You have to check your truck off, you have to train physical fitness, you have to make sure you're getting enough sleep on your off days, you have to make sure you're ready for that tour of duty, and I unfortunately did not do a good job of that and that didn't allow me to prepare myself with education and training. So the biggest point is take the job serious, no matter what you're doing. That's not just firefighting. If you're in a some type of profession, it's your job every day to go there and do the best you can and have a good mental headspace and really be positive, because your positive attitude allows other people to be just as positive.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad I have the opportunity to have these kinds of conversations on a weekly basis. Your positive energy is infectious. It's impacted over half a million people in person probably that many and more virtually with the work that you are doing and continue to do with your organization. That being the on a mission, inspirational speaking. Where should people go to find more about your work, dr Griffin? And what other pieces of advice would you leave individuals with young adults, maybe folks suffering from a little PTSD or anything else you want to leave those individuals listening with?
Speaker 1:Mental health is a big part of your life. Post-traumatic stress everybody in my profession will experience some type of stress based on the responses they've gone on and just in society in general, you're going to feel stress. I want you to realize it's okay to talk to someone. I have a counselor. I will go see my counselor this Friday after I get off of work. I usually go once or twice a week to talk with my counselor. So I live my message and I think that's the biggest thing I want you to get across tonight.
Speaker 1:I'm not someone sitting here saying do these things, I'd live it. I'm working out, I'm going to a counselor. I still have my issues mentally with the stress from that day. I still have physical fitness issues, but I'm living my message to try to set an example that if you have this goal and this belief and this desire, you can be great physically and mentally. If you're interested in finding me, my website's drdavidgriffincom, my Instagram is at Dr David Griffin, LinkedIn Dr David Griffin and then X is at On A Mission LLC. So Instagram is usually the best place to find me. Uh, that's when I send out a lot of my videos and a lot of my content. So please follow us and, uh, just keep track of what we're doing, and we'll send out as much good content as we can.
Speaker 2:Thank you for what you're doing, what you've done, uh, what you continue to do. I can't wait to get a workout in when we come to Charlotte. We'll get after it in the gym and we'll get some VR on those Charlotte Fire Department folks. And thank you again for your time and I look forward to keeping in touch, Dr Griffin.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Thanks, david, appreciate you being here. Y'all have a good night.
Speaker 2:Special thanks goes out to Assistant Chief Griffin for coming on the Athletes Podcast sharing a bit about his story today. As you folks can tell, he's an athlete, he's a leader, he's a public servant. He's someone who I admire for a plethora of reasons and I'm very grateful that I was able to chat with him for an hour during the month of August, when you folks are watching the Olympic Games compete with the most amazing athletes in the world. I hope you've been enjoying these past few weeks, because I know I have been as well. Maybe drop your favorite episode that you've listened to recently and maybe your favorite event from the Olympic Games. Be great to find out what you, what you folks, have been watching. Also, shout out to our new producer, ryan. He's amazing. You guys don't see him, but he's behind the camera. Does this amazing work? Shout out to him. That's it. That's the 237th episode of the Athlet.
