Firing The Man
THANK YOU TO OUR 25,000+ LISTENERS! We are so thankful to be one of the TOP E-Commerce Podcasts delivering high-quality authentic content to you! Serial Entrepreneur’s David Schomer and Ken Wilson share tips, advice, and insider knowledge about all things Amazon FBA, Walmart WFS, and E-Commerce. Discover how you can create multiple income streams by selling physical products online so that you can have the time and freedom to do what you love - whether that is spending more time with family or traveling the world. Ken and David have successfully created several six and seven figure online business ventures. During the journey, they have had major wins, losses, and lessons learned. This podcast will teach you about selling physical products online through platforms such as Fulfillment by Amazon, building a team, outsourcing, listing optimization, pay per click (PPC) advertising, driving traffic to your listings, and productivity tips / life hacks that will provide a path to be successful in building your online business. It’s a mix of interviews, special co-hosts and solo shows from Ken and David you’re not going to want to miss. Hit subscribe, and get ready to change your life.
Firing The Man
The Future of Email Deliverability in Digital Marketing with Perrin Moncur
Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call. https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon
The difference between struggling to get responses and filling your calendar with qualified leads often comes down to one thing: how you structure your offer. Perrin Monker, Principal at RevAscension.io, reveals the counterintuitive psychology that drives successful cold outreach campaigns.
Most entrepreneurs make a critical mistake when reaching out to prospects - they position themselves at the center of their messaging. "This is what I do and why I'm great" rarely moves the needle. What actually works is flipping the script to center everything around your prospect's desired business outcomes. As Perrin explains, "We want to be humble when we come up with go-to-market strategies...look at the competition, see what other sharks are in the water."
Beyond crafting compelling offers, this episode dives deep into the technical aspects of cold email that most marketers get wrong. We debunk common myths (like the value of tracking open rates) and reveal why sending fewer emails from more accounts dramatically improves deliverability. You'll discover why asking for a prospect's time is fundamentally flawed compared to generating interest - a resource that, unlike time, is infinite and can be created through strategic messaging.
Whether you're trying to reach e-commerce businesses, SaaS clients, or any B2B audience, Perrin shares the frameworks that have filled calendars for businesses across industries. From prospect list building techniques to the surprising truth about CTAs that actually work, this conversation will transform how you approach outreach.
Ready to stop guessing what works in cold email? Visit RevAscension.io to see how data-driven frameworks can create predictable lead generation for your business. Your next client is just one strategic message away.
How to connect with Perrin?
Website: https://revascension.io/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/perrinmoncur/
Threads: https://www.threads.com/@perrmoncur
Ready to scale your Amazon business? Click here to book a strategy call. https://calendly.com/firingtheman/amazon
Welcome everyone to the Firing the man podcast, a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you are capable of more, then join us. This show will help you build a business and grow your passive income streams in just a few short hours per day. And now your hosts, serial entrepreneurs David Shomer and Ken Wilson.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Firing the man, the podcast for entrepreneurs, business builders who are ready to grow beyond the hustle and step into ownership that truly scales. I'm your host, david Shomer, and today's guest is someone who's built systems and strategies to help businesses elevate fast. Meet Perrin Monker, principal at RevAscensionio, a leading growth agency that drives measurable revenue through tech-enabled frameworks, smart sales funnels and powerful automation. With a background in sales strategy, process systems, data analytics and CRM tools, perrin is passionate about turning good businesses into growth machines. He spent years fine-tuning outreach strategies, mastering cold messaging and building streamlined pipelines that don't just operate, they excel, bringing a blend of technology, psychology and scalable systems. Perrin helps ambitious entrepreneurs and e-commerce operators break free from the manual grind and architect growth. Today, we'll dive into how he crafts elite, offers leverages, automation to scale client growth and builds repeatable systems that free operators from the day-to-day Get ready. This episode will challenge how you think about business development and show you just how scalable your hustle can become. Perrin, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:It's good to be here. Man. Appreciate you for having me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. So to start things off, can you share with our audience a little bit about your background and path in the entrepreneurship world?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it starts way back when. So I've been blessed. My biggest role model in life is my father. He's been an entrepreneur his entire life. So growing up I've seen, you know, that entrepreneurial spirit and kind of business hustle. So from a young age it was kind of ingrained in me.
Speaker 3:But like many people, I fell into the path of, you know, going to college doing that corporate sort of path quickly. It was so, so unhappy and throughout the entire process tried efforts to break away from that sort of cage that many of us probably feel like we're in and started with dropshipping. Actually that was the first sort of business that I tried to launch, not the best venture, but I believe failures you learn a ton from. Ended up in the crypto space for a little while. Another failed venture, but again learned so, so much and eventually found myself at a startup company which focuses on go-to-market strategies, lead generation and building sales funnels for other B2B businesses. After about a year of time there really just like so interested in the psychology behind what makes a person act or move in a B2B business sense, and decided to kind of deploy those strategies and my own kind of twist and approach to it and to what we do now, which is, you know, go-to-market strategies, lead generation and, like sales funnel, execution for a variety of different B2B businesses.
Speaker 2:Very nice, very nice, and, would you say, your sweet spot is email marketing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, email marketing and, more specifically, the cold email approach. You know email marketing encompasses consumer messaging, b2b messaging. We definitely focus on that B2B side, cold marketing, cold email marketing in the B2B realm side.
Speaker 2:cold marketing, cold email marketing in the B2B realm Okay, very nice. So just for our listeners, cold email is going to be somebody who's never heard from you before and who needs an introduction to the topic and what's being discussed. Is that a fair representation?
Speaker 3:That is very fair, and it is. You know, there's many other channels that people are very familiar with. And really old school someone knocking on your door, you know, trying to hey, like your yard's overgrown. You didn't ask them to be there, but they tried to target you because you had a problem your yard's overgrown. At the end of the day, we want to be helpful. I think cold has a negative connotation or almost a stigma to it, but yeah, you're totally right, they don't know who you are. They might be aware they have a problem, but we determine a person, a stranger, who we can help, and we want to reach out and let them know that, hey, we can help you.
Speaker 2:Very nice, very nice. And I actually met you through a mutual friend and client of yours who, when I talked to him, he said, yeah, I've been working with Perrin for a while and you've been doing an awesome job on getting their calendars booked with sales calls, and so I'm curious what's the secret sauce that makes your outreach work well?
Speaker 3:That's a really good question. Work well. That's a really good question. I really believe, not in all the bells and whistles, but a really good foundation to any sort of marketing campaign. So when I first started doing this for all types of businesses, it's really easy to get lost in the sauce of oh, I need the coolest automation, the coolest tech, the fastest software. Oh, I need the coolest automation, the coolest tech, the fastest software. And we really peeled back the layers.
Speaker 3:I have over thousands of different implementations and iterations of what makes a good cold messaging and I believe it is the fundamental offer that you go to market with. For example, I have a lot of people who are part know, part of my client base, my partner base, and they sell advertising services. Right, and they take a product, they create ads for it and they're like hey, I'm an advertiser for, you know, e-commerce products. That's great, but it's not a good offer and what I mean by that is it doesn't communicate a business outcome, and what I mean by that is it doesn't communicate a business outcome. It doesn't communicate a transformation.
Speaker 3:All you're doing is telling someone who you are and what you do, and we want to flip the framework and really position your prospect or your potential client as the center of everything and build an offer that screams a business outcome that they care about. So you're no longer an advertiser hey, I do advertising for people like you. You are. I deliver this result for you. So that's really been the framework. We try to step back and peel back. The secret sauce is at the very beginning the strategy you build, the offer you come up with and the core principle that you go to market with.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, that makes a ton of sense and to me that really speaks a lot to the messaging side of things, and let's stay in that lane for a little bit on the messaging side of things. Let's stay in that lane for a little bit on on the messaging side of things. What are the the mortal sins of of email marketing? Are there? What are? What do we want to definitely avoid for those people implementing this in their business?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good, good question and to try to like, keep it like grounded in the core offer like what are the mortal sins? Number one it's the belief that you are doing something that no one else is doing. I have a lot of people who kind of fail to recognize that there is competition and it's almost too close-minded of an approach when it comes to strategy. I think there's a ton of benefits to looking at your competitors, seeing how other people position themselves and really get an idea for how many other sharks are in the water, right. So a mortal sin is to avoid looking at your competitors and almost approach things with a little bit of an ego. We want to be humble when we come up with, you know, go to market strategies, and that is one of the most important things to do is look at the competition, see what other sharks are in the water, you know. Another one is to, you know, fail to like understand your customer.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of ambitious business owners I talk to believe that they already know what their customer wants. Things change all the time. Market trends, new problems, new technologies come out, especially in the e-commerce space. I mean, you know, meta ads are always changing Google ads. Now we have AI search engine, yada, yada yada. What your customer wants changes over time and you know, I always ask my partners to you know, kind of shatter their current belief and let's explore what your customer wants together from step one. So those are the two biggest things and it's kind of funny, it all goes back to not thinking that you know it all, stripping back the belief that, hey, you are the smartest person in the room and let's put your customer first.
Speaker 3:Let's understand the world they live in. Let's understand the articles, the content they absorb. Let's understand what people are saying on places like G2, what kind of reviews they're leaving, what kind of YouTube content's being posted. Let's understand the world they live in to come up with the message that they care about. Let's also center around the other messages that they're getting, with getting bombarded with on a daily basis. So let's look at the competitors and let's live in your customers world. So the biggest sin is to not do that right and to build it from a perspective of. This is what I have and what I think is cool about our current product. We want to completely run around that. Let's go to where your customer is and let's live and breathe their world for a little bit.
Speaker 2:Very nice and to me that's a really, really good answer. On the messaging side of things and I'm glad that you pointed out those mortal sins Now, when I think about this, there's kind of two components right. There's the messaging and then there's the who. Who are we sending this to, and what are some cold email strategies in terms of generating lists or finding a relevant audience to send your offer to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good point and I have a total cheat code which I'll try to share in just a moment. Focus on principles first. Generally, you want to talk to a decision maker. I think that is pretty obvious and a lot of outreach specialists will go right to the decision maker and skip all that kind of ladder climbing up the ladder. There's different decision makers for different sizes of companies and different services. You might provide, for example, a new startup. You can get a hold of the owner and founder 10 times out of 10. However, a more established e-commerce business, you might want to go to the CMO or you know the e-commerce manager, depending on what you might want to be selling to them Now to go and determine, like, who should I go and email, who should I reach out to if I want to sell what it is I'm selling and you want to reverse engineer your service or product first, you know right and it goes okay. What problems do I solve? Say, for example, let's take you know conversion rate, as you know the core benefit of your solution or service we kind of want to think about okay, well, who cares about conversion rate? It's obviously the owner and the founder, obviously, but it's going to be a lot of people in a marketing and analytics roles who are, you know, looking at the website on a day to day basis, driving traffic to the website, and those in many different businesses are great decision makers to reach out to, you know if they're at a certain level Now. Obviously never reach out to interns or brand new people at a company. I think that always ends up being a waste of time. But you know we can determine. You know roles within companies are typically referred to as personas.
Speaker 3:In the list building and prospecting realm building a persona of who is likely to be a decision maker and likely to receive your messaging in a positive manner. You know that is relevant to them. Now, these prospecting tools have been really amazing. I'm sure you know, dave, you might have heard of Apollo. A lot of people who are entrepreneurs have tried outreach to some degree themselves. They've heard of tools like Apollo, sales Navigator, hunterio, snobio. I mean there's millions of tools, and what makes list building even better is to incorporate data into your approach. So say we've determined a persona.
Speaker 3:The next thing you want to do is similarly reverse engineer your offer and infer who is a good fit for your offer. Let's take this thing as an example CRO who might infer? Beyond persona, who can we infer would be a good fit to sell CRO services to? Well, that would be people with website traffic. That would be people that are running a lot of advertising on Google and Meta. Now, this can encapsulate a large number of the e-commerce world. But you can set metrics. Maybe you're like I need to see 50,000 monthly website visitors on a website to even offer my CRO to. We can go and target those people with like data metrics. You know, look at companies first, pull how much monthly website visitors they have, and now we can infer hey, this is a pretty good fit to sell and market our CRO services to. Now let's go find the personas at that company and really build out a prospect list. So at a high level, that's the general approach. Again, it like comes to trying to think about the customer first, right, like taking your service and kind of reverse engineering it. What's the result? Who might care about this? What are good company profiles? That kind of would need or want my service, and then going out and building those lists.
Speaker 3:Now, I had mentioned that there is a little cheat code and this has been one of my back pocket secret sauces for a long time when it comes to finding data on e-commerce businesses, as it's a database that's always updated Every time a new Shopify store is added, every time a new WooCommerce, bigcommerce, all that stuff. It's a database called store leads. So a lot of this information, or this brief example I shared about. Okay, well, let's look at website visitors. A tool like store leads can find every single Shopify website that's active past and be able to pull that information for you too, so that you can better infer who's a good fit for your product.
Speaker 3:So, in a nutshell, you kind of got to think about the customer first, peel back the layers to your offer, and I think I kept saying it infer, infer, infer. Um, you have to be a little bit loose in your prospecting, because when it comes to outreach, it is going to be a volume game, and so, if you go and build a list, try to think about the data as less of a black and white metric and more so, hey, how can we use this data to infer or make sure that something is likely to happen from this subset of people? And so that's really the general approach that I recommend to building any list.
Speaker 2:I like it. I like it and thanks for including that. What did you call it?
Speaker 3:The cheat code. The cheat code.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 3:I love it. That's a good one. That's a good one. You guys will thank me later for that. It's quite powerful.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome, no, that's really really helpful Now for someone who's running email marketing on their own right now and is curious whether they're doing a good job at it. You had mentioned it's a volume game. What types of analytics are you looking at or what types of metrics are you looking at to say, okay, this is a successful campaign, we had X amount of open rates, or what is your criteria for a successful campaign?
Speaker 3:That is another amazing question and I'm going to try to blow everyone's minds real quick, because there are a lot of what we call vanity metrics in the cold email world. So everyone likes to look at open, right, for some reason? Um, I'll tell you straight up right now it's a bullshit metric. Do not use it and do not look at it to measure the success of any campaign. Now you're like oh well, parent, how can I do that? It's going to let me know how deliverable my emails are, cause I'll know how many people are opening them. No, it's a vanity metric.
Speaker 3:The way open tracking is logged is with what are called pixels in the emails. Pixels can be automatically fired if they go to certain email servers. They can be fired multiple times. If someone opens an email from their iPhone and then their computer later on, and you'll find it's just an inflated vanity metric number. Vanity metric number Along with that. If people are savvy in the cold email world, they'll know that an email is hyper deliverable if it's a raw HTML email.
Speaker 3:Now, that sounds like a whole bunch of mungo jungle. What the hell does that mean? It means that there are no links, there are no images and there are no pixels in my emails. No embedded files. It is a raw text email. So by including open tracking, not only are we getting vanity metrics, but we're also double-edged sword, hurting our deliverability by including pixels and not sending raw text emails out. So we talk about KPIs. I want everyone to never look at open rate again. Seriously, I know it can be tempting, but we can infer from other data pieces how truly deliverable our emails are.
Speaker 3:Now, that's probably the worst metric. So let me talk about, like, some of the best metrics that you want to look at. Number one is going to be what is we call EPL, or email per lead. Better determined, better described as how many emails do I need to send to generate a positive response? Um, you'll find in many cold email softwares this is not often tracked. Um, it's kind of a statistic we've almost made up ourself. It doesn't take a genius to determine. That's a very important metric, but that's really what you want to look at how many emails do I need to send that generate a positive response? So that is our favorite metric to determine hey, is my messaging pretty good? Are we doing all right?
Speaker 3:Another really important KPI to look at is reply rate. Now replies, you're going to get a whole bunch of replies. If you start sending out campaigns, you're going to get stuff like oh, this sounds amazing, let's hop on a call. You're going to get emails that say dude, please effing stop emailing me, take me off your list, unsubscribe. But reply rate is a really good way to determine deliverability.
Speaker 3:Right, when you think about managing a cold email campaign, you want to make sure you're getting responses, obviously, and you also want to keep an eye on deliverability. So if open rate is a vanity metric that hurts our deliverability in the end we want to use just overall reply rate as a good baseline number to hey, am I getting enough responses? To guess and be like, hey, okay, my deliverability is not too bad. So if I could only look at two pieces of data at any cold email campaign to determine, hey, things are going pretty good or they're going pretty bad, I would look at EPL and I would look at reply rate. So and I would absolutely never, ever even consider thinking about open rate.
Speaker 2:I like it. I like it and that I what you're saying about the open rate. That does make sense, and I will also share with you that I have been holding open rate in pretty high regard over the last couple of years, and what you just said changes that. And so one point I want to ask you about, one point I want to ask you about so you're mentioning that the best form of email is a blank text, html formatted file. I would assume most of these have a call to action where they're booking a sales call, and so how do you navigate that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so that talks about formula of you know copywriting. So like, copywriting is the art and the science of putting together messaging that elicits a response right in a sales scenario and in a business scenario. So CTA is a big part of that. In fact, if I could simplify the copywriting formula down to three pieces, it looks like this it is your hook, it is your offer statement and it is a CTA. Exist in every single copy. And you got to, you got to take that seriously. You got to understand, okay, how can I hook someone, how can I communicate my offer and how can I get an action out of them. So you asked about CTA. That's arguably the most important thing. There's been many cases where you can have a very good messaging, very good subject line, hyper deliverability, but you ask the wrong question or implicit the wrong action at the end of the email and you're gonna get results for crud. So I'll tell you guys right now what I think is like a big misconception and cold email and outreach, and I've seen this a ton and I kind of wanna have the chance right now to kill it and stop anyone in the future forever doing this.
Speaker 3:It is the difference between an interest-based CTA and a time-based CTA. So I'll talk first about a time-based CTA and what that really means. And that's if, at the end of an email, I asked you hey, do you have 15 minutes next week to chat about this? Or hey, what's your schedule looking like next week so we can get on a call and talk. It's a time-based CTA because you're asking someone to tell you their availability, you're asking someone to kind of shed light on what their time looks like. The other type of CTA is called an interest-based CTA. This is more so kind of grounded in curiosity, grounded in interest, and you kind of want to ask things like well, hey, would you mind if I sent you more information about this? Or you know, how does something like this sound to you? Or would you be curious at all to hear more information about this? Millions of variations.
Speaker 3:The point is one asks for interest, the other asks for time. Now, there's a funny thing about time You've probably heard this before, david, but it's finite, it is not unlimited, and turns out busy decision makers, busy entrepreneurs, owners they don't have a lot of time. So to ask for time is kind of a foolish thing to do. What you want to do is ask for interest, ask for curiosity because, unlike time, interest is an infinite resource. Right, you can create that on demand. If you have strong messaging, if you have a strong hook and strong offer, you can create something out of thin air. So, as far as CTAs go, you always want to kind of position yourself in the realm of hey, I want to engineer interest, engineer curiosity and act upon that, versus trying to call someone to action based on time Because, hey, we're doing cold outreach to decision makers. Guys, they're busy people. So stop asking for time. Stop asking for a call. Not only is it finite, but you're a stranger. They don't want to talk to you. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I like it. That is really. I really like that point, and, as you were saying it, I was thinking of some emails that I have read recently that have had that call to action on hey, do you have time? And as someone who's very, very busy, my default answer is typically Typically no. And so, as you phrase it that way, that really makes a ton of sense. And so I think there's kind of like two camps of people here, and there's going to be the DIYs, the people that want to go out and execute this on their own, and then there's going to be people who are interested in working with a professional organization such as you. And so you know, to our DIY crowd, what's a good platform to do email marketing on. You hear a lot about Klaviyo kind of being the king. At least from my perspective, that has been what I've seen. Curious, what do you uh, find there?
Speaker 3:yeah, that's. That's a great question and I want to first um again clarify for for people, if you are confused about what email marketing software you should use, determine if you want to email consumers or if you want to email b2b consumers. Yeah, I've also heard clavio is pretty good, uh, but again, you're not selling services to business professionals using Klaviyo. You guys have probably heard of Mailchimp, sendinblue. I know a lot of CRMs have their own emailing capabilities, like HubSpot, pipedrive, gohighlevel has its own, even, even. But if you do want to generate B2B leads for your business with email marketing as the engine, there is no other answer than instantly. Okay, they're not paying me for this, they're not paying me for any shout out, trust me, I've used all the softwares and instantly is very good for a few reasons. Number one it's it's specialized for cold outreach.
Speaker 3:Right, there are a lot of nuances. If you want to, you know, send a B2B professionals and sell your services via email. Right, you got to have deliverability on point. You have to have automation at scale. You have to manage many, many inboxes, because there are some delicate tricks to delivering at a high rate, and I can share those in just a little bit.
Speaker 3:And instantly is really like the all-in-one software that is absolutely killing it. Not only that, but if you look at the email marketing software space, and especially in cold email software space, instantly has all the funding behind it. You know, almost like 200% more, 300% more than its next best competitor, and you know you want to. In my opinion, if you're using software, position yourself behind the one that really has the thought leaders, that has the capital behind it, because as technology becomes exponentially, exponentially, more and more, you know creative and fast, et cetera, et cetera. You need to position yourself with a software that is also growing especially fast and you know growing with AI, growing with these other. You know technologies and softwares and instantly is just. It's blown my socks off. If you want to do cold email and do it yourself, there is no other answer. Don't even waste your time looking.
Speaker 2:You had mentioned a couple tactics about deliverability and navigating that space, so what does that look like?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, and it can get complicated. So, guys, so buckle up here for a second. Deliverability really stems from volume. First and foremost. We talk about what is a high deliverable email engine, and the only kind of comparison I can make it is we want to do a little bit from many different places. We want to have one account working for us very tiny and do a ton of accounts. So it's we call that scaling horizontally, not vertically.
Speaker 3:So in cold email, you obviously have an email that you send from.
Speaker 3:One email should not exceed 10 or 15 emails a day, I think, like the biggest deliverability funk or flock flump, whatever that people do is, they'll go by and set up one email account and they'll send thousands or hundreds of emails from that one email account. And that is one of the worst ways to have high deliverability, because these ESPs so that would be your Google, your Yahoo, your Outlook. The number one metric they look at to determine if you are abusing your email for spam purposes is your volume. So do not get one email account and send all your volume from it. I want you to get an army of email accounts and they're all going to do a little bit right, that is in the most simple way I can explain it. The best way to increase your deliverability is have an army of email accounts all marching one foot per day. We do not want to have one guy run, run, running the marathon on a day-to-day basis. It'll absolutely crush and burn your reputation with those email providers.
Speaker 2:Okay, very nice, very nice. And you had said that caps out at around 15 a day is what you want.
Speaker 3:To limit that to, yeah, so you know different people have different methodologies. You know some people like to push it up to 25. Some people keep it low as five per day. I think there's a big conversation to be had about cost, right. So the more emails you have, the more expensive it is.
Speaker 3:If you've messed with cold email before, it's an absolute pain to have a whole bunch of burns because downtime it takes about four weeks to get an email that was burned once to get its replacement up and firing again. So there's the conservative kind of group of people who's like, hey, I want to like, basically get a whole bunch of emails, never worry about their deliverability, ever again, and, you know, not push their volume threshold very high. That is a camp I actually tend to be in myself, because it is a vein to replace domains and you know, every time you replace a domain you have to buy a new domain. Like you know, it just becomes a headache and it's costly if you're dealing with a lot of burns. Now there are people who like, hey, it does not matter to me the cost of email domains because it's marginal compared to the profit I'm going to get from a new customer. So in that case they're like I want to buy a crap ton of domains and I want to push them until they burn, and when they burn we're just going to buy more. That's a fine school of thought too. There's literally no problem with that, except the just complications and work of having to replace stuff and understanding that your costs are a little more erratic. And yeah, that can be enough of a turnoff for a business owner. There are the more conservative, cost-minded, and then there's the upsetting fire ablaze. Let's just burn it all and push it to tell it's dead and we'll just get new ones after that. Now, like I said, that is a little bit riskier and it's a fine strategy.
Speaker 3:It's not necessarily one I recommend, because there's one ever moving piece of motion in the background and that is cybersecurity. That is, you know, security protocols, etc, etc. And who knows how smart this stuff is going to get in the long run? Who knows if you know, in five years you know you buy a new domain and for an entire year you have to warm it up, or you know that lead time from four weeks becomes up to a year? Who knows what it's going to look like in the future? We do know that over the last two years that volume threshold point has been rapidly decreasing. That over the last two years that volume threshold point has been rapidly decreasing. When I first started cold email four, maybe five years ago, you could send 50 emails a day five, zero, from every single email account. The recommended number I just said a couple minutes ago was 15. That's like a massive decrease. So over time, you know, we don't know how strict those rules are going to get.
Speaker 3:There's another factor that the ESPs email service providers use to determine hey, this guy's good, he passes all the green flags like, let him send emails as he wishes, and that is age age of a domain, age of an email. For example, if I created a new cold email account today, it's got an age of one day years old. It's an infant, it's a baby. If I had one that's been around for two years, that's a mature, that's someone we can trust, that's someone with a reputation with us. And so I think if you're on the more riskier side, just know that although now it's not too punishing, we don't know how punishing it'll become in the future if you're constantly trying to use infant domains to send and really pushing that threshold as far as you can go. So those are the two schools of thought when it comes to general volume per email account. I'm not going to recommend one or the other. I just happen to be in the conservative camp.
Speaker 2:Very nice, very nice, and I've never heard it explained that way, but that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense and I think this is one of the reasons why you would want to work with a professional in the industry is, as things change from 50 to 25 to who knows what in the future, I think staying ahead of that makes a lot of sense. So, perrin, before we get in the fire round, I would like to talk to you about the type of clients that you work with and what's your sweet spot in terms motivated business owners.
Speaker 3:In a weird way like, yes, I'll talk about industry in a moment, but for me it's an attitude and understanding where, hey, let's strip back your ego and let's learn how to go to market together. You know, I think it's really tough to do sales outreach and a lot of strategy. Like a lot of people forget how much strategy it takes to come up with a good outreach campaign If they are already lock solid in their beliefs and won't let us challenge that at all. That's number one. Number two is a lot of our clients actually do work with e-commerce businesses. So, you know, we do.
Speaker 3:Probably 70 to 80 percent of all of our work is generating business leads in e-commerce. So this is typically service providers, a slew of marketers. This is SaaS companies, cybersecurity companies, and it is people who are trying to get a hold of e-commerce businesses. Like, hey, I work with a lot of coffee companies, I want to help more coffee companies make amazing content and those are the types of people that we go out and help. Or performance marketers or et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3:So that's the realm we're in when we talk more about like, what is someone who's like just completely primed to go ballistic on outreach and really fill up their calendars. We'd love to see you know proof of success. One thing I believe strongly in business is case studies. It's proof that you are who you say you are and it's so, so powerful to tell a stranger an amazing offer and be like, oh yeah, and we can back it up because we did it for someone who's just like you before. So I love seeing case studies as well. So, in a nutshell, you know someone who is open to shattering their beliefs and their go to mark, current go to market strategy, someone who has case studies and someone selling to e-commerce. That's really kind of our sweet spot you.
Speaker 2:Before we wrap up, I would like to get into the fire round. This is four questions we ask every guest at the end of the show.
Speaker 3:Are you ready? Let's do it all, right? No deal, deal, here we go. What's your case?
Speaker 2:number 14, that's right. What's your favorite book?
Speaker 3:favorite book, I'm going to say ender's game it is. I'm a huge sci-fi fantasy guy and my grandfather I remember being young he's like you have to read this book and it's all about strategy and manipulation and war tactics, but in an alien and sci-fi realm, and blew my socks off when I read it. Highly recommend if you're into sci-fi. Blew my socks off when I read it. Highly recommend if you're into sci-fi.
Speaker 2:Very nice. I read that one back in high school and really, really enjoyed it. I have to break that back out again.
Speaker 3:So next question what are your hobbies? Hobbies so I come from a music background and a sports background. Growing up I actually before I got into all the nerdy stuff and psychology and sales I'm in now. I used to be like a music producer and a sound engineer. So when I do have free time I love to try to get back into some tracks and really peel back the science behind what makes music sound good.
Speaker 3:I think if I could center it all, I'm a nerd. I'll happily say that I'm a nerd. Anything I want to do, I try to study it pretty deeply and that's something that I love. I also love to. You know, the older I get, the harder it is, but I love to stay active. Playing basketball was always been a love of mine and I'll take any chance I can get to get out there. I happen to, you know, go to a gym that Michael Jordan used to train on, and so it's really fun to get out there. You kind of feel I don't know like you're. You could be. You could be Michael Jordan if you just spent enough hours here, right? So as far as hobbies go, those like the nerdy stuff rules my life and gives me a lot of joy, and you know I love to be out and about, try new food, travel, all this stuff. But if I can be like what brings me joy, it's like learning, being a nerd and getting into. You know those things.
Speaker 2:Cool, Cool. Very nice Number three. What is one thing you do not miss about working for the man?
Speaker 3:That is. I really do not miss I really two things. Number one is I always felt there was a competition, uh, who could work longer? I'm a results oriented, I'm like results first. I really believe in work smart versus working long, and it really felt like a competition to me. And you know, I think work should be enjoyable.
Speaker 3:I think that's why anyone who starts their own business, kind of like, has this belief where, like hey I want to create the life for myself, I want to chase my dreams, I want to, you know, be who I want to be and time being finite kind of backing on that old conversation, you know, if the work and the man kind of constricts, that time it's really frustrating and that was something that I desperately, desperately wanted to get out of. So, yeah, that's probably the number one thing and I'll hang my head on that that checks out, that checks out.
Speaker 2:I that checks out, that checks out. Um and last question what do you think sets apart successful entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail or never get started?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think. Um, well, number one, like you, just have to be okay with failure and embarrassment. Um, it's, it's really persistent. I think if you really look at all the entrepreneurs, there are obviously geniuses, but a lot of people are really, first and foremost, they believe in themselves and they're persistent. Um, failure I touched on it so briefly when we first started this conversation. You have to be okay with failure. You have to be able to learn from your mistakes and you're going to be so good. Just believe it's really belief in who you are. Don't be afraid to fail, don't be afraid to be embarrassed. Talk about that stuff.
Speaker 3:I think a lot of people hesitate to act. They wait for that perfect shot. In fact, I saw an animation a while ago talking about this. Imagine there's moving shields in front of your face and there are two people moving shields in front of your face and on the other side is a target. On the other side is you with a bow and an arrow and there's someone next to you and one of the two archers is waiting for the perfect moment when the shield is out of the way. The other archer is constantly firing, he's hitting the shield, he's missing the target, he's doing all this stuff and get guess who was the first one to hit the target, the one who kept trying and failing over and over again. Um, so, you know, I, I think that's that's really. It is like be ready to be, be ready to fail, be okay with taking on debt, be okay with embarrassment, be okay with sacrificing a social life, because life is what you make it. You get out what you put in, so put in effort.
Speaker 2:Outstanding. Well, Perrin, this has been a really good interview. If people are interested in getting in touch with you, what's the best way?
Speaker 3:The best way to get in touch is to obviously send me a cold email. I'm kidding you can head over to revascensionio, that is R-E-V-A-C-C-E-N-T-I-O. From there we have, you know, just my personal calendar integrated onto our website and that's really the best way to come and speak with me. We personally don't send too much website traffic over. We really have all of our traffic come from email directly kind of hilarious. But you know that's a great place to get a hold of me and just have a chat so I can hear a little bit more about your business and see, hey, maybe you should use cold email.
Speaker 2:There we go, all right. Well, perrin, this has been an outstanding podcast and looking forward to staying in touch.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Dave. I appreciate the time today.
