Firing The Man
THANK YOU TO OUR 25,000+ LISTENERS! We are so thankful to be one of the TOP E-Commerce Podcasts delivering high-quality authentic content to you! Serial Entrepreneur’s David Schomer and Ken Wilson share tips, advice, and insider knowledge about all things Amazon FBA, Walmart WFS, and E-Commerce. Discover how you can create multiple income streams by selling physical products online so that you can have the time and freedom to do what you love - whether that is spending more time with family or traveling the world. Ken and David have successfully created several six and seven figure online business ventures. During the journey, they have had major wins, losses, and lessons learned. This podcast will teach you about selling physical products online through platforms such as Fulfillment by Amazon, building a team, outsourcing, listing optimization, pay per click (PPC) advertising, driving traffic to your listings, and productivity tips / life hacks that will provide a path to be successful in building your online business. It’s a mix of interviews, special co-hosts and solo shows from Ken and David you’re not going to want to miss. Hit subscribe, and get ready to change your life.
Firing The Man
The Future of Live Shopping and Digital Retail with John Roman
What happens when you sell your company, then buy it back to take it private again? We sit down with John Roman, CEO of Battle Brands, to unpack the bold moves behind Battle Box’s rise—from a Facebook-fueled launch to an eight-figure portfolio, a high-profile acquisition, and a decisive buyback that reset the roadmap on his terms.
John walks us through the early grind, the moment he left a comfortable corporate path, and the hard choices that unlocked growth: firing a non-performing partner, recruiting a top creator in-house, and making content the engine rather than a side project. We dig into why human storytelling beats hard selling, how raw behind-the-scenes moments build trust, and why community is the most defensible moat in e-commerce. If you’re aiming to reduce churn and raise LTV, you’ll hear how reframing “subscription” as “membership” unlocks recurring revenue with real perks, belonging, and out-of-box value that customers actually feel.
Then we go deep on live shopping. After years of hype, John explains why the U.S. market is finally ready, how Whatnot differs from doomscrolling on TikTok, and what it takes to scale from a 10-hour test to 45 hours of weekly programming with multiple hosts and show runners. The playbook is fast, vertical, and emotionally driven—short attention spans, quick decisions, and high intent. We connect the dots between creator-led content, membership benefits, retention strategy, and live shopping as an always-on touchpoint that turns fans into customers and customers into advocates.
If you’re building an e-commerce brand, this conversation delivers practical ideas on content strategy, community building, membership design, retention levers, and the live commerce stack. Subscribe, share this with a founder who needs a push, and leave a review with the one tactic you’ll test next.
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Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man Podcast, a show for anyone who wants to be their own boss. If you sit in a cubicle every day and know you are capable of more, then join us. This show will help you build a business and grow your passive income stream in just a few short hours per day. And now your hosts, serial entrepreneurs, David Schomer and Ken Wilson.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome everyone to the Firing the Man podcast. Today's guest is a powerhouse in the e-commerce and subscription world, John Roman, the CEO of Battle Brands, the parent company behind Battle Box, the massive outdoor gear subscription box that became a household name after landing its own Netflix series, Southern Survival. John's story is wild. He helped scale the Battle Box group, which also included Carnivore Club and Wanlow,$30 million subscription portfolio before the company was acquired in 2021. But here's where it gets even better. Less than two years later, John led a group to buy Battle Box back and take it private again. Talk about betting on yourself. He's a five-time founder with five exits and four acquisitions under his belt, a rare combo of operator and deal maker. He's an absolute expert in content marketing, community building, retention, and short form video, having cracked the code on TikTok, Instagram Reels, and YouTube Shorts long before most brands caught on. If you want to learn about how to turn fans into customers, reduce churn, boost AOV, and build an eight-figure brand through storytelling and strategy, you're going to love this conversation. Please welcome to the show, John Roman. John, welcome.
SPEAKER_02:David, thanks for having me. Man, I uh can I can I have that intro? That might be like the kindest words I've ever heard. It is amazing.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I all all publicly available and and and uh yeah, uh absolutely, absolutely. I could send that over to you. But uh Yeah, so so for people that have not heard of you, can you share a little bit of your background and path in the e-commerce world? Sure.
SPEAKER_02:So so uh e-com is my my third career, which uh career one to the joy of my parents after graduating university. I decided I was gonna play poker professionally. So I did that for four and a half years. Um TLDR was uh it was good, was not great. I was a B plus player, um, not an A player, worked really hard to become an A, couldn't couldn't do it, couldn't make it. Um and you look at people that uh were still in that profession that were um my age now. Um and it's it's probably not the spot I wanted to be in. It looked like they picked up a couple other vices. Um life had been maybe a little bit hard. So made the tough decision not not to continue that. Um had started dating my now wife at at that time. So made the decision I'm gonna jump into uh the corporate corporate world, work work for the man. Um and uh I grabbed an entry-level sales job um that uh typically was filled by uh recent college grads, took that at 26, um, and obviously had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder because I'm four years older than five years older than everyone else. And um I'll work them, both smarter, harder, had a lot of success in sales, quickly moved up the uh the corporate ladder. Um and by the end of that journey, I was I was building and training and launching sales teams, um, specifically B2B in the in the enterprise world. Um somehow along that path, I started investing in companies, um not in a traditional like uh private equity or VC world, but like I was building a network of people. Um and when things crossed my desk randomly um that could use investment, I I did that. And and Battle Box was was one of those um companies. So I invested in it uh uh a week and a half after launch. And uh what I agree agreed to be a part of was a board seat and you know five hours a month of some high-level advice from just someone with uh myself having relatively strong business acumen. And it quickly, quickly, quickly changed. Um where you know I was putting in 50 hours, 60 hours for my day job, my corporate job, and then 50, 60 hours with Battle Box 2, and it became um just not sustainable. You can't you can't continue. I'm not I'm not built to continually put in 120-hour work weeks. And uh it just got to a a point where I had to choose one or the other. The the startup that I was working for um had revenue uh slightly north of 10 million. And in April of 2016, so 14 months after we launched Battle Box, the run rate was looking like it was going to do a little bit more than the company I was working for. And it was that moment I was like, okay, well then this I'm I'm a pretty risk-adverse guy. And I was like, okay, that's that's it. Let's let's let's do this. And uh we had just just bought our first home three months prior. So my wife was super thrilled um to hear that I wanted to uh do this after after us getting this mortgage and and living in the home we live in now. But uh she was supportive and we did it, and the rest, the rest is history, and you touched on a lot of it.
SPEAKER_03:That's outstanding. That's outstanding. Given the name of the show, Firing the Man, I do want to dig into that day, that aha moment where you said, I'm doing it. I'm going in, I'm putting in my notice, and I'm going with Battle Box full-time. Do you remember, you know, what that day was like, what you were thinking?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So um, you know, the the the the order of of things might have might have been a little bit off if my wife happens to listen to this. Um she did give me the the the blessing and the hey, let's do uh I support you. But um the the the the day itself was I absolutely remember so I had been brought in only four months prior to this new company. Um so the reality of me leaving a place in four months is not in my DNA. I'm you know I've I had done so much hiring and unfortunately firing in these building these sales roles. Like I had ingrained just because I had said it so much, like you gotta put two years in somewhere to really give it a a fair shot. Um and we were sitting here four months in, I had come to the conclusion that the company that um great company and and I the CEO now was the CMO then. She came on at the same time I did, and I I had lunch with her last week. And she's she's she has grown the company to where it um maybe five X it since uh the point, you know, back in 2020 2016 when when I was there. But the software that we were selling was not where it needed to be. And I was meeting with the CEO and uh a board member. The board member was the one that had brought me in in into the opportunity. And I I just remember sitting there, hey, this is uh, you know, the software is not where it needs to be. We need to there's a couple ways we get there. One, we we make an acquisition, strategic acquisition, tuck it in um and and and get the technology faster. But we're talking with due dilig off offer, due diligence, integration, like it's gonna be a year, year and a half. Um, and then the software might be ready. Or we can build it ourselves. We're looking at two, two and a half years. And um they were like, oh, okay. Well, which one do you want to do? Well, you brought me on to build a sales team. Um and there's also a part of me that was like there's some attractiveness um of doing one of those, okay, trying to find a company to buy technology-wise, or leading a team of uh and building something, which I know nothing about. Um so both were super outside my wheelhouse. And there was a part of me that was like, okay, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm gonna learn a new a new skill set. But then I have in the back of my head this looming and then they knew about Battle Box already. Um I I was so excited about it I couldn't shut up. So they definitely knew that it exists and they knew that it was growing rapidly, and I'm sure it was a a general um fear that I might I might dip out because of it. But that was just the moment where um I was just very honest with them and I said, look, like um it's not what I signed up for. And I think it both options are exciting. But that's the thing about about the corporate world, right? There's a lot of asks, a lot of taking. Um, and by design, there's not a lot of giving um from that from from the co corporate overlords, right? Um these these businesses are typically built with uh shareholder value being the the number one pillar. And that normally comes at the expense of the people working working for the man. So lots of lots of other stories of of my corporate life, but that was just the moment I could have um I had equity, uh phantom equity with this opportunity, right? If there was ever this exit event, I was surely gonna get a payday. But I had actual meaningful, real, no rules equity on the battle box side, and and and they are they're not the same. And uh I wanted I wanted to to to do it. So I that was it.
SPEAKER_03:Outstanding. Outstanding. I I love that firing demand story, and it seems like you you were talking about the hundred-hour weeks. It seems like when people you you almost have to go through that. You you have to, as you're building up whatever it is on the side as you're working your corporate job, there is something about that that is almost necessary for the process. I I was a 4 a.m. to 7 a.m. guy. And then I'd go to my day job at CPA firm. And it was something that as I look back on it, I'm I'm glad I went through it. At the time it was exhausting, but uh absolutely part of it. So let's uh let's turn the corner and talk about Battle Box. So let's talk about the the climb up, uh growing that company. What were some of the levers that you pulled that really led to uh successful growth? Sure.
SPEAKER_02:So in the in the beginning, um can tell you that that uh we're Facebook ad experts, but uh that would be a lie. Um we didn't really know what we were doing on the Facebook side. We obviously had enough um critical thinking to know how to start an ad and create an ad and add a creative and put some copy with a call to action and um have a website, but it was uh not not rocket science back then. We we launched exclusively on Facebook. This all of our lead sources, lead source was Facebook, or if you went to Google Analytics and looked at traffic and source, it was all Facebook because that's where we tested and and started. And obviously, you know, uh it's probably not a not a best practice for longevity. We we quickly realized that and diversified our lead sources and and traffic. But that's that's all we did. Facebook by itself in that first year got us uh four and a half million in revenue and um just just just and not even a complex strategy, just spinning up ads and they were working. And um it wasn't it wasn't until we got into year two that we really started diversifying. Um when I came on board um full-time in April of 2016, I had two two main immediate objectives to accomplish. One, there was a fourth partner and um they just weren't bringing any value. And uh they were they were just given this equity, but um they weren't doing anything. So I was elected um uh to to figure it out, which was uh not a not a fun thing to be chosen for, but I had to figure out how to get this fourth partner out. Um and the result was writing them a uh at the time very large check relatively to to get that equity back. And then um the second thing, which was enjoyable, was uh reaching out to one of our number one creators at the time, bringing the most most traffic. Uh this is in year two, and that was Brandon Curran, if you've seen a battle box video of the bearded gentleman, and uh reaching out to him and and getting him to uh move him, his wife, and his three kids down to Georgia because the the vision was we were going to lead in on content and it was just gonna be about content. Content was gonna be our top of funnel and and building a community through the content. And uh he saw the vision and did it. And um that was that was that was that inflection point he went from that video he was doing at nighttime on his own once a month to how many videos can you can you uh film, edit, and post, farm the table yourself. So that that that was the game changer.
SPEAKER_03:That's outstanding. That's outstanding. That is on the content side of things, that seems to be an area where a lot of brands get it wrong. And I'm curious, what as a company is thinking about their own content and and their own promotion, what are some things that they should be considering?
SPEAKER_02:Um as silly as it is to say um when you're when you're doing content, um I think there's two elements that people get wrong. One, they don't show the human element. Um in in today's day and age, especially in a uh this was this was true ten years ago, but it's even more true now. People crave connection. And in a in a post-COVID world where there's so much remote work now and human interaction is not at the same level it was before, um, connection matters. So I think not having that human element, not showing whether it's vulnerability or or what have you, showing the human element I think is key. The second piece uh on the things that that I think brands get wrong, it's not lack of something, but it's the opposite. It's it's it's selling too hard. It's it's trying to make it about selling a product. And as much as people um you know crave connection, people also don't want to be sold to. Nobody, nobody wants to be sold to. Whether it's uh an unsolicited phone call or or an ad when you're trying to do something else, like yes, they work or they wouldn't be done, but it the vast majority of people do not enjoy being on the other end of any of that.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. I I agree with that. And as I think of some of the recent products that I've I've engaged with or brands that I've engaged with, and I think about their content. It's it's raw, it's real, it's hey, here's what our warehouse looks like, and here's where we make the stuff. Uh, or here's some issues that we're running into today. And and it has nothing. There's no sales pitch, there's no coupon code, there's no click the link below. Uh it's just here's here's what we're doing. And and so oh, I I I think that's really, really sound advice. And it's interesting, you had mentioned post-COVID era, and there really that is an inflection point and in a lot of different areas of people's life. But speaking to e-commerce specifically, what what are some things you've noticed in the post-COVID era? Uh you know, you had you had brought up the point of people craving connection. Are there any other things, any other strategies that you think particularly do well in this era?
SPEAKER_02:Um Yeah, so you know, you you talk about during the the the the epidemic itself, 2020-2021, um couldn't do any wrong in e-comm, right? Like everything worked, everything was great. All we do is grow and sell more. Um and then the reality of of not normalcy, but new normalcy came into play. And I mean, fellow um, so we don't technically view ourselves as a as a subscription box because at this point we do so much more. But if I am going to categorize this as a subscription box, um there I have a lot of a lot of uh friends that are their peers that run similar, not outdoor per se, but subscription box brands. And they all saw a 30, 40, 50 percent drop in in revenues as as we saw, you know, this new normal. Now no one wants to look at 2020 and the start of 2021 as an anomaly, and if you do, you know, 2022 still higher than 2019. So like everything's still moving in the right direction. You just had this little blip on the radar, but the reality is most businesses in 2020 and 2021 just thought that that was gonna be the new standard. So they made decisions based on that that would not have been sustainable with 2019 or or 2022 numbers. So it's uh you know silver lining is it's still uh the the business, the the spaces continue to grow. Um you just can't really compare it against that. But back to your question of of things that things that matter, I I think it it it honestly depends on what you're selling, right? Where it falls in the need want scale. Um if it's on the want, all I know is is is building content and community around it. Um that's that's what we've had success with. And I could I could suggest other things, but um unless I've done them and proven them out, I don't think it's a recommendation.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Absolutely. Um well let let's talk a little bit more about subscriptions. So I uh I know and I'm included in this, there are a lot of people listening who have direct-to-consumer brands, and there is not an element of subscription. There are a series of one-time purchases. And as we peek over the fence at the subscription box and and we're looking at our own customer lifetime value and the customer lifetime value on a subscription service, it looks nice. And and so what are what are some ways or what are some best practices in putting together a subscription box program that some of our listeners could could tack onto their existing D2C brands?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I think um it, you know, to a D2C brand listener, I don't think it necessarily needs to be a subscription box that could be an element of it. It could be it. Um I think you need to look at it in a different lens, and that's just a lens of membership, right? So if you have a assuming you have a product that isn't just a thing you would buy one time and be done. Um, you know, like uh I don't think um, you know, someone that's bad example, but you know,$3,000 computer, like someone's not gonna get a membership or a subscription to a you might get a membership for like, um, so now I'm I'm wrong. You might actually get a membership because you you might need service or added benefit. But but that's to me the lens to look it at. So I guess everything could be a membership. But membership, right? To get recurring revenue. And I think um for us, the way we look at it is we're we're obsessed with bringing value to that customer outside of just the physical product. Um we as silly as it is to say, we, you know, on average, uh Pro Plus, which is the$170 a month with sales tax and shipping is$200 a month, that is our most popular uh product, skew. It's 55% of our base is in that product. We don't and don't get me wrong, it at the end of the day, it a certain part of it is about the items in the box, right? You can't get around that. But we just make so much of it not about that. It's about the membership, it's about the community, it's about the added values and benefits that you get outside of it. Our goal is to make to provide that much value outside that that outside value you could argue would pay on its own accord for for the the monthly charge. Um which is which is a lot. So it's uh it's just a different approach of of of giving more giving more than than uh you know you're you're necessarily charging, providing value, and it doesn't have to be in a physical product manner. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. In regards to, you know, you you document the content, and then you have to just decide what platform do I do I put this on, or what platforms m more likely. What are, as we sit here talking in October of 25, where do you see a lot of opportunity? Where is we you were talking earlier about the wild west of Facebook ads where everyone was a pro. I remember those days and I I look back on them. Yeah. What where where it is that opportunity as you sit here today? What what do you think?
SPEAKER_02:Um so every time I I so I have an absolute answer. And I I before saying it, I want to preface it a little bit because I was a non-believer in this because the US has talked about it uh for the past ten years, and it's it was just never the case, and I think we're finally at the the early stages of it actually finally being a reality, and that's live shopping. Um live shopping to me, um, so we launched it in in April, so relatively uh not that long ago. Uh it's already, we're on whatnot as the platform. We've done some testing on TikTok shop. Uh we'll do some testing likely on eBay coming up, and then once Amazon rules theirs out, we'll probably look at that too. The the reality is it's uh, you know, for 10 years, someone has been saying live shopping, live shopping, look at China, look at China. Um the real the China China's different, right? It's a different consumer, it's a different society, it's a different consumer behavior, different uh consumer purchasing um variables, I don't think will ever be China. But um even if we become a fraction of what they're doing, then it's it's all of a sudden a very, very large trillion dollar in ten years space. Uh so China will be uh live shopping this year, they'll do it over a trillion in in revenue. Um we're nowhere near that. I think we're probably maybe 70 billion this year, maybe maybe close to 100 billion. But all of the the indicators are there that it's it's it's exponentially it exponentially grew from 2024. And all of the things you're seeing, you know, whatnot, for example, was 12 employees pre-COVID. Um they raised at a$5 billion evaluation this year and have 600 employees. Like, that's a force. And and they're just one, right? You have eBay trying to figure out Amazon trying to figure it out, um, ByteDance or TikTok or whoever the new owner is going to be trying to figure it out. And I think this is the time that it actually is going to happen. And if if I wouldn't have jumped in in April and we wouldn't have had the success we're having there, I don't think I'd be a believer because I'm I'm numb to it, right? I'm numb to hearing about it for a decade and trying stuff and it not working. But this is this is the opportunity. I think it's too early. I think you could come in to live shopping now, figure it out through through mistakes, learning, learning through just jumping in there, and still be able to grab giant, giant land amounts where where you could just dominate and and establish yourself.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. And you had mentioned what was the platform again that you're using? So we're using whatnot? W-H-A-T-N-O-T. Okay. All right. When when I think live shopping, I think of old school QVC, somebody sta standing on a stage, and I I have a hunch that that is it is probably different in in practice. Uh what what is your live shopping setup look like? And in what's the is it very formal, like scripted content? Is it off the cuff? Are you doing it with influencers? What does it look like? Sure.
SPEAKER_02:So so yeah, so you know, QVC, home shopping network, uh that whole genre of of live selling, it it skipped our generation. Our generation caused it to fail, right? Um, but you look at our parents' generation, they'd they'd watch it and they'd order the the lamp that you can touch on. And it's a thing. Um my my wife's uh mother still is watching it and ordering stuff. Um but you know, our generation didn't find it to be the right way to buy stuff, um, especially with the rise of e-commerce. And uh this new generation, it it's gone full circle, but there's a major difference, right? And the major difference is the new generation does not have attention span at all, right? Um the success of of TikTok or Instagram Reels or YouTube Shorts validates that every day. All they want to do is Doom scroll. And and that's what the live shopping is now. It's the same format. Um, whatnot is literally the same format as Doom Scrolling on any of those three platforms, vertical, vertical short forms. The difference is, um, and you know, TikTok shop the algorithm will sneak some shopping stuff in there. The difference is whatnot is a shopping platform. So the the intent is much higher, right? You go on TikTok, you're doom scrolling to be entertained, and then you see an item and you might buy it, but there's no um brand loyalty there. It's a very transactional um scenario. While whatnot, and you know, I don't not say whatnot is the end all be all. There's I'm sure some other options out there, and the reality is one of the big players will likely figure it out as well. And and if they can't figure it out, they'll buy somebody that did. So, you know, I don't know if whatnot ends up being the winner. There's there's a world where Amazon buys them, right? Um But it's a much different experience. It's it's vertical short form. So you're not talking about a product for a 15-minute section segment. You're talking about a product possibly for only 20 seconds. Um, because that's what uh current attention spans are. So it's it's quick, it's additional products, it's no due diligence or research uh on the product, you're not opening up another tab and looking like you just gotta make a decision, very emotional purchase. Um and this current generation is they love to make emotional purchases. So it's just it's just a different world, and it's tough to get your your uh head around it. But um to the To answer the last part of your question, for us, we we didn't believe that this was going to be a thing because we had heard about it for so long. So in April we did a very light test. Um we did 10 hours of live selling. We just used existing team members. So Brandon, um, the the gentleman I spoke about earlier, he did he did the shows. Um and we had uh one of our our marketing coordinator was running the back end of it, and a couple of us on the marketing team were just watching and gathering these learnings and trying to understand it. Um fast forward to to October, um we have two full-time show runners that all they do is run the back end of live. Uh we'll we're doing about 45 hours of programmed content every week. Um and we have five, five hosts. Technically four. The fifth is coming on uh later later this this month. And we're now almost at full capacity for the single channel. So we're deciding what a secondary and tertiary channel on whatnot, or or maybe it goes elsewhere looks like. Um so it's it's completely changed in our our approach towards it has completely changed in the uh six months we've been doing it.
SPEAKER_03:I I'm glad that we went on this detour uh on live shopping, because you're you're absolutely right. It it is something that our generation has kind of scoffed at a little bit. And and the the results are are speaking for themselves with what you guys are doing and scaling up. And so this has been uh an outstanding conversation. John, I feel like we could uh we could talk for hours, but want to be respectful of your time. Before we close out the show, we have something called the fire round. It's four questions we ask everybody at the end of the episode. Are you ready? I am. All right. What is your favorite book? The Signal and the Noise.
SPEAKER_01:What are your hobbies? Um sports cards and traveling and food.
SPEAKER_03:Very nice. What is one thing you do not miss about working for the man?
SPEAKER_01:I'm I'm going to go with your uh earlier, the the the 4 a.m. wake up. I used to wake up at 4 30 every day. I did it for for so many years.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely, yeah. You you and I agree on that one for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Don't don't get me wrong, I still I still wake up at 7, but um it's it's a different life experience for sure. 43 and 7 are not the same.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh and final question what do you think sets apart successful entrepreneurs from those who give up, fail, or never get started?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_02:Um I think almost you almost have to have a certain level of crazy. Um so, you know, I'm a very risk risk adverse person, but it's uh I almost have to at times like tell myself, okay, like stop being so risk adverse, think about crazy ideas, crazy stuff. Um just critical thinking and and a a slight um slight crazy view of reality.
SPEAKER_01:So there's gotta be something wrong with you. Uh to truly execute it.
SPEAKER_03:I fully agree with that. You go to enough conferences, you there's a personality type of entrepreneur, although I do believe that that word is way overused. I hate I hate the word. I do too. I do too, but but you know what I'm talking about. There's a personality type of, and they are a little crazy. And I I would put myself in that category, and I am a little crazy. Um, and you go to conferences and you meet people that are a little bit crazy, and I and I don't I I think that's a very good answer. And so um well outstanding. Great, great answer, and that's the first one that I've heard uh going down that road, but I I certainly agree with it. So, John, if if people are interested in in learning more about Battle Box, checking out your podcast, what's the best way to do that?
SPEAKER_02:Um so uh yeah, battle box is b-a-t-t-l-b-o-x.com. You can just Google it or uh spell it any which way, it'll it'll pop up. Um podcast is uh awesomepod.com as o-m pod. Uh again, you can just type in as o m podcast into Google and it'll come right up. And then I have a a blog called onlinequeso.com where um uh do a lot of building in public, um, a lot of e-com talk. Uh it's a little bit different than most because the the goal there is to um not just sh not just show the winnings, the wins, but really highlight the losses because the losses are where you get the learnings and and how you get better and stronger. And I think uh social media in general, uh but especially like even LinkedIn, like you know, there's a lot of noise out there, right? Um and the noise is people just bragging and talking about how great everything is. Um and the signal. Um see what I did there, I brought back the reference to the book. Um the the signal there is uh is that everyone most people have way more losses than they have wins. And uh I think the losses form who you are and how you handle situations and how you you push back uh towards them onward. Outstanding.
SPEAKER_03:Outstanding. Well, John, thank you so much for your time today. And for our audience, go check out John's podcast, check out Battle Box and everything that he's doing. I'll post the links to all that in the show notes, and we'll see you next week. Awesome. Thanks, David.
