This is the follow up episode to S4 E16, where we discussed the creation process (and mistakes) of our new publication, the Vendor Vault.
Now, after the completion of our 3rd issue of the Vendor Vault, Sarah Weekes, Art Director at Punchmark, Savannah Kell, Junior Designer at Punchmark, joins Mike to talk about the things we improved, how we keep innovating, and what is coming in future issues!
Read the Vendor Vault here:
https://issuu.com/punchmark/docs/vendor_vault_issue_3_final
Send feedback or learn more about the podcast: punchmark.com/loupe
Learn about Punchmark's website platform: punchmark.com
This is the follow up episode to S4 E16, where we discussed the creation process (and mistakes) of our new publication, the Vendor Vault.
Now, after the completion of our 3rd issue of the Vendor Vault, Sarah Weekes, Art Director at Punchmark, Savannah Kell, Junior Designer at Punchmark, joins Mike to talk about the things we improved, how we keep innovating, and what is coming in future issues!
Read the Vendor Vault here:
https://issuu.com/punchmark/docs/vendor_vault_issue_3_final
Send feedback or learn more about the podcast: punchmark.com/loupe
Learn about Punchmark's website platform: punchmark.com
Welcome back everybody to In the Loop. What is up everybody? My name is Michael Burpo. Thanks again for listening to In the Loop this week. I'm joined by Savannah Kell, the junior designer at Punchmark, and Sarah Weeks, the art director at Punchmark, and we're talking all about the vendor vault. This is actually the follow-up to episode 16 of season 4, so back in April of this year, and that episode was titled the Newest Truly Publication how we Made the Vendor Vault and we're following up on that.
Speaker 1:We've since released our third issue of the vendor vault and what that is is our pretty much quarterly publication where we highlight the vendors that we work with as a part of our premium vendor program at Punchmark, as well as some of our best partners and the latest with Punchmark. And if you remember the first episode that we did on this, you'll realize that not everything went according to plan with that issue the first issue and we learned a ton since then, and we talk about not just what we've changed since then, but how we learned that we needed to improve and why we use these things called postmortem meetings to discuss a product launch or an issue or something like that and discuss how we can improve so that each time we come up with a new issue of the vendor vault, it's always better. I think it's a really fun talk. I love talking with these two. They're my teammates, so I hope you enjoy listening as well.
Speaker 1:Thanks, everybody. Sign up for your free demo today at punchmarkcom. While you're enjoying this week's episode, take a moment and leave us a star rating on the Spotify mobile app or, if you're on Apple Podcasts, leave us a star rating and a review. It's the best way to help us grow into show that you really enjoy the show. Thanks, and now back to the show. All right, everybody, welcome. I'm joined by Sarah Weeks, art director at Punchmark, and Savannah Kell, the junior designer at Punchmark. How are you guys doing today?
Speaker 3:Doing great Thanks. How are you?
Speaker 1:Very well, savannah.
Speaker 2:Doing good. Doing good.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice, I'm really excited to get a chance to speak with you guys. I've had you each on individually before in the past, but today I want to talk as a follow-up episode to what we had for Season 4, episode 16. So about like half a year ago, we did me and Savannah did an episode all about the Vendor Vault, issue one, and that one was like here's everything that went wrong with our new publication, and then we kind of like laid it out and it was kind of like us talking about how we didn't want to be disheartened by learning and the things that went wrong with our first publication.
Speaker 1:Since then we've just released issue three of Vendor Vault and Sarah and Savannah were major parts of it, alongside Kimberly Bottoms, our vendor liaison, and maybe, since this is your kind of your baby, savannah, maybe can you set up what the Vendor Vault is for people who might not have listened to that first episode Of course.
Speaker 2:So Mike and I teamed up when I was still an intern over at Punchmark. We what feels like forever ago now to highlight the premium vendor program and get more of our clients to sign up for the premium vendors that we offer, while tying it in with my design background in publications. So we wanted to make a really well-designed publication that highlights that and send it to every single one of our clients that we have at Punchmark so we could showcase that and hopefully gather some new sign-ups for the premium vendors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's a really cool product and I think that it differentiates us from other website platforms in that we are coming to them with kind of this, these offshoots and these other products that are going to be speaking to kind of our design capabilities. For example, we have In the Loop, which is giving a voice to our company, and then we have the Vendor Vault, which is giving a visual look. Sarah, I know that you were a big part of kind of crafting Punchmark's visual identity in the very beginning, but also now can you talk about how you see the what goes into designing like a visual style for one of these off-shoot products like the Vendor Vault?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so if we want it to be a sub-brand of Punchmark, we want it to still match and go along with it. If it happens to be next to the Punchmark logo, we don't want it to look totally foreign. And then we also are kind of testing out do we want the Vendor Vault to be its own entity? And it's okay if it looks different than Punchmark. But that's something that we'll be discussing in the future and maybe we'll give it its own brand.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, so like here's an example for related brands but also separate brands. So, for example, Adobe. Each Adobe product has its own branding. For example, there's Adobe, the brand I think that they use, like all Helvetica you guys correct me if I'm wrong, it's just or aerial. Yeah, it's all Helvetica, you guys. You know you can see it as a suite of products. Or even you know the Google suite, Google Drive and Google Docs and sheets. They're all very related and linked. But then there are different brands that are all part of the same umbrella but are very separate. For example, Architect Digest or Bon Appétit magazine or, I think, Cosmopolitan I could be wrong on that last one, but they're all owned by Condi Nost and those magazines are all separate but they kind of have a similar vibe. But it's very distinct how separate they are. With this most recent one, issue three, we kind of tackled that. What was going through your guys mind with trying to build in this kind of high luxury feel.
Speaker 2:I think having Sarah on definitely helped with that idea. I've seen a lot of what she's been designing recently and it has that higher luxury feel that is usually associated with jewelry, so bringing her on for this issue was definitely fun to break out of the mold that we've been creating for the past issues. Sarah, what was going through your mind when we started to ideate with that specific goal in mind?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I wanted to elevate it and have it look like a luxurious, high-end jewelry kind of feel, and so I took it apart. First off, the logo that we did for the first two issues I helped Savannah on and I think it's the same typeface as the Hunger Games and we liked it at first. But then we were like, well, I don't know if this fits with the luxury feel. So we ended up changing the vendor vault logo and we also gave it a mark, the double V. And then, as far as the color palette goes, we did a soft like beige cream color palette. And then, other ways we elevated it. We had the images overlap the middle fold, or is that called the middle gutter, and then we removed the white boxes behind all of the products as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very confusing whether we wanted to go with something that felt like punch mark, for example, and the reason why I'm explaining this is if someone wants to create something that is a related product. But our first issue especially was very scion and dark and it highlighted, you know, a lot of the things that punch mark is, which is tech and cutting edge and moving forward, all those kind of feels. Now, with issue three, we made a pivot. That is a little bit more luxury. So I kind of want to ask you guys, when it comes to designing for related brands, have you guys ever done something like this before? You know, spinning a established brand like punch marks, which has been around for about 15 years now, and then making something new. Have you guys ever worked on something related or is this kind of more or less your first time when it comes to expanding something?
Speaker 3:I think I've only ever done the branding for site manager, which is underneath the umbrella of punch mark. So, it was easier because it had the same look and feel, I think when you're trying to give it its own brand yes, still haven't matched the original, that's a little bit more difficult.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, I really never had brands design in kind of my repertoire beforehand. Seeing as like punch mark was my first like job where it had to pay attention to the specific branding, so that was one of the goals that I ultimately wanted to tackle when we started talking about the first issue. So it's been interesting to see how to balance that and make sure it's its own identity while staying true to the beautiful branding that punch marks created.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I mean you also have a. We touched on this quite a bit when we did the first vendor fault discussion. Savannah, you have quite a bit of background when it comes to working in publication design, Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, my pretty much my entire portfolio in college was print design and I got such a kick out of that, whether it was designing posters or other booklets, even a cookbook. I just really love the look and feel of a physical printed design in my hands, because you can play with different paper types, and just making sure the colors are matching from the screen to what's printed is kind of fascinating to me, which is why I was really intrigued when you brought this idea to me and I got to play around with it.
Speaker 3:I think people are really going back to loving physical things, Things that are tangible and they can actually touch and feel. Because I remember I was researching this one day of why Because obviously we got so into phones and digital and computers and everything. But then I think during COVID we were all so far apart and everything was digital so we kind of missed that tactileness in receiving letters or receiving postcards and real things and not just being all digital and seeing things through screens.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah, in like the age of you know, the NFT. The same year the NFTs became a thing I got really into. I made my own series of greeting cards, you know, and my greeting cards are what's what's my best selling product for my watercolors. And it's because I think that people, I mean, is it archaic? It's like hello, but it's still kind of. You know, people get a greeting card or just a get well soon card or something, and they hold on to it. I have a fridge full of cards that people have sent me and it's because, you know, they're not as fleeting as an email. So I think I think you're on to something with that.
Speaker 3:And it like carries nostalgia and then every time you look at it, you remember it from the person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's one of those things, because this is an advertising tool. We're not, you know, hiding that fact that in the end, this is advertising these vendors, but also punch marks features. It's kind of weird because one of the key marketing KPIs that a lot of people look into when it comes to valuing advertisements and sponsorships is impressions. You know everyone's talking about. You know how many impressions did this advertisement get on Google?
Speaker 1:But what's funny is when it comes to a physical product, a lot of times you're getting repeated impressions because, let's just say, they get the vendor vault in their mailbox and they open it and they maybe they flip through it and they don't have time, so they put it on their desk and then they go and they do something, and then they're on a hold with a vendor and they're talking to someone and they pick it up and they flip through it a little bit more. And that's another impression, especially if they're on the cover, for example. They're getting repeated impressions and before you know it they're racking up, let's just say, five to 10 impressions off the same product, whereas with it comes to something in Instagram, it's an end over end experience, so you scroll right past it and you're never going to see that same moment ever again. So that is one impression on its own, so just something to kind of think about. I love. I love print in general, though.
Speaker 3:I think even though it's so hard to measure the impressions on print material doesn't mean you should write it off Like it's still very valuable. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yep. So I kind of want to talk briefly about issue one, because now we have it in our back, we can kind of laugh about our mistakes. When we talked about season four, episode 16, when I had Savannah on, we were kind of just coming off of I'm not going to say harrowing, but like very strong learning experience when it came to this first print production. So I think, savannah, can you highlight a couple of mistakes we might have made in issue one and that we have gone on to fix in issue three.
Speaker 2:Of course. Yeah, I can think of quite a few at the moment. I think the biggest one is making sure to get client approval before printing everything and, you know, getting to that final step, we have a very rigorous process that we go through now with the Hanks of Kimberly, who is kind of the middleman messenger from the vendors to the design team, so we make sure to get the correct assets that they want. Every pricing point is like dead on and even the write ups that we create are quality checked and everything makes sense with grammar. I think that was probably our biggest issue, for example, with the Leveon products that we had selected. They weren't necessarily in our vendor premium vendor program, so we were a little scared at the moment, but we did end up getting that.
Speaker 1:Just to add on, it was when we wrote it, when we added them in, in the time between when they gave it to us and when we printed it, the products had gone out of circulation. So we printed this with some products that weren't in circulation anymore because of the lag time, and now we know to accommodate for that. But keep going, savannah.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and we had that issue, I think, with links, one of the vendors. For this one. We had to swap some products out before we sent up to print, which was honestly a blessing in disguise with Kimberly, because we didn't want to run into that issue once again. So I'm very grateful that we've kind of started implementing that into our processes for the booklet.
Speaker 1:I think that the one. It's so funny how one silly arbitrary decision on our part could cost us several dollars. I will say without specifying further, on the back of the vendor vault we have like an address section and you just put the address label on there and it goes out and you seal it with a clear wafer and you put it in the mail and no problem. It's so funny. On the first one we didn't think it mattered. I went to a post office and I got a quote and they were like oh yeah, a five by seven envelope or whatever it is going to be. I think it's five by seven or no, it's a five and a half by eight, eight, I think.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that's yeah, it by eight, point five. Oh yeah, that's going to be one one ounce stamp and then you're covered, no problem, we go and we print it, and I go and I get the quote for it and they're like, oh yeah, you're going to have to, it's actually going to be this much because it's an oversized package. I was like, what are you talking about? It's five by eight and a half and they're like, no, that's actually eight and a half by five. The orientation of it matters. And it's like, oh my gosh, it's such a pain in the neck to overlook, but we did it the first time and I think that that kind of brings up the value when it comes to making any product, such as post mortems. Sarah, maybe you can kind of walk us through what is a post mortem and how do we use them to make our products better.
Speaker 3:Sure, so a post mortem. Well, in our case, what we do in punch work is we all get together, we have a meeting after we finish a big project and we talk about what went well, what didn't go well, what we can do next time, and we take a bunch of notes, and I think it's very, very important step that you shouldn't miss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that they're so valuable and I like to have them with everybody that ever touched the product, even if you only touch a product at the end. So we did this for the vendor portal. We did this for page builder designs. We've done it with different, with form builder. When we built form builder back in the day, it's like what are like a couple of things that we got out of maybe this iteration Savannah that we might consider for for next time that we got out of Post mortem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had quite a few discussions not only involving design processes but other technical things like how to mail it correctly, what kinds of sponsorships we can offer, like possibly coming to the future of back cover sponsorship, which could be exciting. There were a bunch of different things that we covered that I think Are still in talks, so don't want to cover too too much since nothing's confirmed. But I feel like I learned a lot from the post modem and it was really nice, as you were saying, to kind of get the feedback From everybody who was involved, to see not even just how the design team sees the Project, but also our C-suite and the premium vendor team. So it was really nice to hear everybody have Positive and negative things to say in order for us to continue to grow this project.
Speaker 1:I mean like a. It seems so trivial, but this is like. Here's an extremely important one that we got out, that we learned from issue 3 that we mailed out just recently. The size of these clear closing wafers it's so dumb like this is something that doesn't matter to any of the recipients, but it matters to us. How many wafers do we need to put on each one? How many? How big should they be?
Speaker 1:So when we did issue one, I think we used one inch, and then, when we did issue two, we thought we bought one inch and we bought, I think, half inch and they were tiny and it caused all sorts of problems.
Speaker 1:And then this time around, I think, we did one and a quarter and but they were perforated and it's so funny. These are the types of things that really matter when it comes to dialing in a product and making it so that it's Super effective and easy to reproduce and you don't have to think about it A day of like we did this time, when we go to issue 4 and 5 and you know, down the line We'll already have known okay, when we do this, we're using two, one and a half clear wafers, stickers and we're gonna buy them in bulk so we get a discount. We're gonna buy several thousand of them at a time, so that way we know we're gonna use them, so it's not like we're gonna waste them. That's the kind of stuff that you can get from a postmortem. So I highly recommend if you do a big project, you start implementing them in your team, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we've learned a lot throughout this first year of the project. I even have to keep reminding myself that it is only the first year. We only started doing this really in January but I'm hopeful that these processes that we've learned from continue to help us in the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think like another one. That's really tough is like we're dealing with jewelry, so Making things seem luxury, making things seem like they have, that they are of quality, is super important to us. However, it's some of the hurdles that we run into when it comes to dealing with with jewelry vendors is, for example, sometimes they don't have the best product images. So let's talk about diamond vendors. How are we going to handle diamond vendors? We don't even fully have the answer yet, because this time around, we had to use a lot of stock image or stock images that were tweaked or composited stock images. Sarah, do you have any idea like what we should do going forward? I mean, we haven't even solved this, this problem yet for for diamond vendors.
Speaker 3:Well, ai is an option we subscribe to mid-journey and they create. It's an AI image generator through discord, and we would have to talk to the C-suite and ask if that's okay with them. Since we are Giving out this publication, I'll have to look up copyright laws and just everything that goes along with AI imagery and if we could use it for something like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's because you think that diamond vendors would have high quality images of their diamonds. I mean, you think that's kind of like logical, but not necessarily the case. We've learned it turns out that it's actually more like a lot of them have like a couple of images of some of their cuts and then they don't have them all the time in a lot of Details. So it's like, oh, you know they carry these cuts, let's just go find stock images of those cuts. But it's like I feel like you're missing something that you're trying to convey. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:It's like I feel like it's the translation of it onto paper. Using stock images sort of misses the mark.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:For me, selling jewelry, a lot of people connect with the model in their face. They're emotion in their eyes and so if you're only seeing the product on like a still life, then it doesn't pull you in as much as a Emotional or emotion evoking picture with a model wearing the jewelry. And then you could imagine like oh, if I wear that, then I'll feel like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think it's just um. I mean, the other part of it is that I Want and I've always wanted. When we were kind of outlining the idea for the vendor vault Me, savannah and Kimberly back in January of this year, we were like, okay, what do we want it to be and what do we not want it to be? And I, from the beginning, said the advertisements. Because this thing is is sponsorship driven. The advertisements need to feel Like high quality design, because in the end, we want this thing to be of the highest quality design, no matter what, and that's what's going to separate us from the other Established magazines that are already in the space.
Speaker 1:Some of them do a great job and a lot of jewelers use not to name any in particular use them as Really great points for them to see what's going on in the industry. However, if you were to go through and cut out every single ad that takes place in those you know 50 page or newspapers or things like that, you're left with like 10 pages and that kind of makes you have that question like what is the publication if not just a bunch of ads? And like are the ads providing any quality? You know what I mean, like, I feel like that's like the issue with publications nowadays that everything is driven by ads Like what is the voice of the publication? You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's difficult to be able to navigate like a specific like, look and feel of a publication when it's just add after add after add, and I think that's what one of the First things that you and I discussed when we started this project was. We don't want it to be like other publications that do this. We want to have a design driven Publication that focuses on our premium vendors and even some punch mark Highlights as a way to you know, speak on what we're doing and have some advertising for us. But the main goal is to have a nicely designed Vendor publication, which I've really enjoyed working on yeah, it's confusing.
Speaker 1:I think it's one of those issues, that one of those conundrums that we're really gonna have to deal with, no matter how long we run the vault is going to be how much say should the ads have on the visual voice of our product? And so far I think we've been pretty good it's. It's always a collaboration, I mean working with vendors. They have a design style guide that they're trying to kind of advocate for and we have, you know, design taste. I mean, we all went to school for design and sometimes those come at odds with each other. Sarah, you've been with punch mark since, you know, as long as I have. I remember it used to be much harder to talk about design with with Clients and with others. Do you think that's like a skill that you've developed in what? Six and a half years?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, um, there's some times that are still difficult, but you definitely learn how to communicate your choices and I think if you explain why you chose to design it that way, usually clients or vendors can see the reason behind your choices and it also helps you know your design is solid if you're able to Explain why you did it this way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Savannah. Is that something you're learning right now, or do you think you've already learned that?
Speaker 2:I Think I'm still kind of learning how to navigate it in a client sense. I know in school they kind of taught us to defend our designs and Really know what we're discussing when we present it, especially and they made that a very key point when I studied at SCAD. So it's been nice to see Sarah navigate it and have her as like a learning experience and hopefully I can get to the point where I can do it to the level of sophistication and gracefulness that she does. But I think I'm still kind of learning and taking baby steps with that.
Speaker 1:But that's an interesting point. For example, on issue two and I won't say which vendor this was one of our vendors they sent us a completed design and I felt like it was at odds with the rest of our templates or the rest of our page designs and it was sticking out, which is can sometimes happen if something is foreign design, meaning like not by our hand, and we had tried to kind of graft it into the rest of the issue and they were adamant that it needed to be that way. And what was really interesting is you know that song? It's like you got to know when to hold them. You know what I'm saying. Know when to fold?
Speaker 3:Okay, whatever, I don't think so.
Speaker 1:So yeah, know when to run. Oh, there you go so one thing, that's interesting about that one is.
Speaker 1:I got on a call with them and I just went up straight up said hey, you know, you guys really want it to be this way. I really want it to be this way. You guys are paying money to be in this issue. I wanted to just say I would love to make it this way, but if you're adamant that you want it your way, I'll, you know, acquiesce. Can we come to some understanding? And they said, no, we want it our way. And I said, okay, and that is one of those kind of really difficult things. I you know, as what would you say articulately, that Sarah handles it. I've also come to grips with the fact that sometimes there is no middle ground and the people that are paying for it, they just end up winning, and I think that we've had that with with client websites too, right, sarah?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's the hard part about design in capitalism or not necessarily capitalism, but design for other people, where you want to put forward work that you're proud of, but then also they're paying for it, so their vision and their dreams should be met.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So it's all. A lot of design is compromise people skills. I used to be very nervous talking to clients and very scared, but you just get used to it and we're all humans and you end up getting used to it and it's not so bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, divesting yourself from that kind of emotional connection to it sometimes is, I mean, which is hard, you know, very easily said very difficultly and done in practice. So I think that it's something we're all kind of working on and we can only get better at it. I think that it's one of those things you just get used to. But I kind of want to shift the gears into talking about our final topic on this, which is we made this available for a digital EPUB, which is an online publication. So we still have the physical form which we mail out, and every Punchmark client will get a gets a copy complimentary and mail to them, and I think that that's really cool.
Speaker 1:I love having a physical copy. These things. They are really, I think, a quality print. They're about I think this last one was 26 pages and man, I just I think that they're so lovely and I'm so pleased with them. But can you guys walk me through maybe, savannah, you have the strongest opinions on this one what do you think the value of having an EPUB as well, and do you think that there's any? I mean, you can see the argument why we should not do a physical print and we should only do an E publication going forward. How do you kind of advocate for both?
Speaker 2:I would say that it's definitely nice to have both, just because you never know what kind of issues you might run into with mailing, say that something gets lost or you know we run into some kind of issue. It's nice to have a digital as a backup and not necessarily the prime focus. I think I'm also biased because I have such a strong love for print design. But I think having it readily available for whoever not even just necessarily like our Punch Mart clients, but maybe down the line having it for other people who love seeing jewelry and a beautifully designed jewelry publication, that's one way to step forward and kind of get more people to have eyes on it.
Speaker 1:What about you, sarah, having that kind of approach? It's so weird. We've been trained to only do digital. We started out, me and you, with website design. That was like what we got hired specifically for. Now we're doing. It's like, okay, we have the physical copies, but we also have this online copy, and the online copy is doing, I mean, just as well when it comes to marketing us. How do you kind of see it as an art director, when it comes to using both?
Speaker 3:I think if we didn't print it, we would definitely save money, but if you go about life like that, then you might lose your passion or passion projects. So I think printing it is something that we're able to do, so I definitely want to keep doing that as well, and I hope more people are like me and Savannah, where we love receiving tangible things in the mail. I just received a catalog from Amazon that was showing all their Black Friday deals, and then I don't know if you've ever heard of Marine Layer. They're a really nice clothing store from, I think, san Francisco, and I love looking through their magazine. It's just beautifully designed. So I hope there's more people out there that also appreciate and enjoy tangible products.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it even goes back to you. Guys might not even know this brand, Cabela's. Have you ever heard of this Cabela's?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the outdoor store. The outdoor store Okay, I didn't know how.
Speaker 1:My dad's a forester a retired forester now and I grew up, like you know, pretty country, and we used to receive this Cabela's book catalog and oh my gosh, this thing. It was hardcover, it was bound, it was like a coffee table book. It was incredible and I've since learned that it's because my dad was the manager for this branch of this, of this forestry company, so he was not only buying it for himself but he was had to buy it for, like his office as well, some of this outdoors clothing, and so they must have saw him as, like this super customer and they would send him, like this, this. It must have cost $50 to make this booklet, but I still remember, man, this finished piece of marketing material was so quality that, yeah, I mean, could it have been online? I mean, maybe not back then, but now it probably could have been. But damn, it really made an impression on me on how quality and premium that they wanted to position themselves with like a hardcover piece. So you know, I can definitely see the value of something in print.
Speaker 3:I think a similar thing is like why do we still have physical books If everyone can read it on a Kindle or if they can read it on an iPad? I just love the feeling of holding a book, the smell of the book, I don't know, is that weird, but so I don't think, I don't think I'll ever read from a Kindle. I'll always like the physical book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you get to own it. You know, I agree. So when we talk about the future of Venerval, I hope that we keep doing more of these. I I mean issue issue four is already in the works. We call this. Our short hand for is VV, and so we just did VV3. Now we're going to be doing VV4. I'm hoping I would like to do two releases next year. That's kind of my goal. This past year we did three. We kind of were thinking about doing quarterly. It's a little bit short of a timeline to do all, all of it in just a quarter. We've learned that it's like you kind of got to be kicking your feet pretty fast to get this done, on top of also handling client work. I'm hoping. What do you guys think? Maybe we do a double issue, like a super long one for VV5. What do you guys think? Maybe like a 50 pager, something really, really juicy with some weight on it? What do you guys think?
Speaker 3:I would be into that.
Speaker 2:I would too, as long as, like, the vendors are open to being a part of the issue, I'm going to keep designing until they're kind of sick of us.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you know, I think it's been super fun. And even one thing that's really kind of interesting about this whole thing is whenever we spin up a new product for example, when you know I made in the loop I track all of our costs very meticulously and I tried to take sponsorships to offset the cost. But also you can't just be taking like sponsorships like every other. You know podcast and have manscaped or whatever is on there. It's like let's get something that actually is valuable to our listeners. And I think that the vendor vault is the same way. And what's pretty cool is that, after only three issues, the vendor vault is net positive when it comes to value. In the end, it is advertising for our clients, but the fact that we are having a positive impact on our business is actually, I think it's pretty cool. I think that we're making a beautiful product that's having a positive impact for our vendors and I think that that's really fun, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would love to see where this goes and hopefully we can even enlarge it and have it be a magazine size. But we'll see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would also like to see it kind of grow in size, not only like page length, but also like move away from the 8.5 by 5.5. Maybe even make it like a coffee table book, like that Cabela's book you were talking about. But I feel like that might be way down the line. But I'm really hopeful that we'll keep growing this and turning it into something even better every time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that's kind of our summation of three issues of the vendor vault, which is our semi sort of quarterly publication where we highlight the premium vendors and also punch mark features that are in our system. I got the chance it was really cool getting a chance to work with Sarah and Savannah and Kimberly on making this product. I think it turns out every single time. I'm always just so proud of how it turns out and we're gonna keep going with it, hopefully make another one releasing. You know, probably February is most likely when the next one will be coming out.
Speaker 1:If you're listening and you're not a Punch Mark client and you would like to receive a copy, you can always should be an email, michael at punchmarkcom and we'll send you a copy. And if you are a vendor and you would like to talk to us about Advertising, we try to make our advertisement rates Super affordable, as affordable as possible, because we understand that we only have three issues under our belt and the other ones have, you know, hundreds, and we're just trying to make it so that it actually makes sense for the impressions You're going to get and we just want to work with you. I think it'd be fun. So if you want to do that. You can also message us Michael at punchmarkcom, or even info at punchmarkcom, and we'll handle you from there. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll have the links to the online publication version in the show notes below and you can go back and actually view issues One, two and three for free online and if you're interested in checking them out, they're always going to be available. Yeah, I think that that's pretty much where we're gonna leave it.
Speaker 1:Anything else from you guys before we wrap this thing up?
Speaker 3:I don't think so. Thank you so much for having us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, always a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah, maybe we do one or maybe two more issues and we do, like another, a. What do we learn since then? You know, who knows, maybe shipping a 50 page? You know, publication is much harder than I. You know. Have it in my head, it seems like everything's harder than what I imagine it to be. But you know what? We'll learn stuff along the way and we'll share it with our loyal listeners. All right, hey, everybody. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week, tuesday, with another episode. Bye, all right, everybody. That's the show. Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1:This episode was brought to you by punch mark and produced and hosted by me, michael burpo. My guests this week were Savannah Kell, junior designer at punch mark, and Sarah Weeks, art director at punch mark. This episode was edited by Paul Suarez with music by Ross Cochran. Don't forget to rate the podcast on Spotify and Apple podcast. It is the best way to help us grow. Leave feedback for us at punch mark, com. Slash loop. That's L O U P E and and check back next week for another episode. Thanks everybody, have a good day. Bye you.