Breaking Barriers: Jen Wood's Historic First Ascent and Climbing Evolution

In this episode of the Lattice Training Podcast, host Teresa sits down with British climber and coach Jen Wood, who recently made history with her impressive ascents at Kilnsey and Water Cum Jolly in the UK. Jen also opens up about her toughest first ascent yet—Vela Stivina in Croatia—sharing how the unique climbing style there pushed her both mentally and physically to new limits.

Jen discusses her journey, from projecting challenging routes in different climates to her preference for climbing in warmer weather, which has become a key part of her training philosophy. As someone who stepped back from competition climbing, Jen offers a candid reflection on how this shift has reshaped her approach to coaching and outdoor adventures.

Key Takeaways:

• Consistency is Key: Regular time on the rock is essential for building both skill and confidence.
• Weather Matters: Jen’s preference for warmer conditions shows how the right environment can elevate performance and enjoyment.
• Stepping Back to Move Forward: Taking a break from competitions gave Jen a fresh perspective, allowing her to refocus on her passion for outdoor climbing.
• Training Smarter: Jen highlights the differences between preparing for competitions and training for outdoor climbs, emphasising the need to adapt strategies.
• Balance is Crucial: Rest and recovery are essential for staying at peak performance while pursuing a variety of climbing goals.
• Climbing Pitfalls: Jen shares common mistakes climbers make when trying to progress to higher grades and offers tips for overcoming these hurdles.
• Mental Fortitude: Breaking complex moves into smaller, achievable goals is key to pushing your limits.
• Embracing New Challenges: Success doesn’t always come in the form of initial goals, but personal achievements along the way can be just as rewarding.
• Expanding Comfort Zones: Exploring different climbing styles and routes helps climbers grow and tackle fresh challenges with renewed confidence.

Jen's story is a reminder of how taking on new challenges—whether it’s a first ascent or switching focus from competition to outdoor climbing—can lead to remarkable achievements. This episode is filled with insights to inspire climbers of all levels, offering practical tips and an inside look at Jen's unique approach to climbing and coaching.

Stay tuned for more from Jen as she sets her sights on new adventures, including a potential first ascent in Kalymnos! 

The Lattice jingle is brought to you by Devin Dabney, music producer of the outdoor industry who also hosts the American Climbing Project.

Transcript

Jen & T (00:00)
Hi everyone. And welcome to the Lattice Training Podcast. Today we have the absolute crusher and coach, Wood here to talk about her recent ascent in Kilnsey, Watercomb Jolly Crags, which are both in the UK, but also her climbing abroad with her achieving the hardest first ascent by a British woman. So welcome, Jen. Hi. Right.

So let's start from your hardest first descent yet that has put you on the map, not just in climbing history's website, but in general, as you know, the hardest first descent by British women. Like, what was that like and how do you pronounce the crag? Because I cannot pronounce it by the life of me. Yeah, I'm not even sure I can. But it was...

I think it's Vela Stivina on the island of Hvar in Croatia. So, yeah, I think something just came up on my Instagram about Hvar and I was like, whoa, that place looks amazing and there's climbing. So I just kind of researched it a bit and was like, yeah, go on then, I'll go there. And so I then got the book and saw there was quite a lot of projects. And I just thought it'd be quite a different holiday to...

try and do like an FA and I emailed the guy that wrote the guidebook just to check they were open projects and stuff and he gave me some predicted grades of a few so that was really nice. It meant I wasn't going in totally blind, they weren't gonna be 9C or anything. So yeah, that just helped me choose one to focus on. And when it comes to the climb, what was it like? What was...

what were the movements like in the style of climbing? And did that align with what you're used to doing? Or was that like a completely new thing, like outside of what you're used to movement wise? Because you know, like my partner's all about his undercuts and overhangs and whatsoever, but you know, what's it for you? Like, was it your kind of climbing? So a lot of Havar actually is quite similar to like the Greek islands and Kalimnos, I know.

Everyone probably knows I spent a lot of time in Kalimnos. So was a lot of two -fers and yeah, that sort of climbing. I kind of, yeah, there was sort of two options I had of the projects that I had my eye on. And one of them was like crazy steep through a cave. And then this one was like, know, 20 meters, not super steep, a few two -fers. And that definitely fit more with my style of climbing. Like that sort of...

like power endurance style was something I was more used to. But then like getting on it, I had no idea what the moves would be like. So yeah, I just kind of had to learn as I went. And the projecting of it, did you divide it by, you know, parts and you were working at certain points of the route or did you just one day go and...

you know, as you were putting your quick draws, you were realizing the moves and then you were just red pointing from the beginning. Like what was your projecting of it? Yeah, it was interesting because it was a totally new experience. I've not even done that many long term projects. So to start with, I was just like, right, I'll get the draws in, see if it seems at all conceivable. And like I found holds on the first session, did a few moves on the easier sections. But essentially I was like, okay, yeah, like.

I think it's possible. And then even like the second day on it, I was just sort of holding the holds, holding positions. I was like flipping out, this is gonna be hard, but I think, yeah, maybe I can do it. And it was only, yeah, I basically like learned how to project on the route, like breaking it down into sections and even just sort of every session. Well, essentially the route was like,

kind of 8A with a 8A route climbing, a 70 plus boulder in the middle. And then yeah, maybe a bit more like 8A sport climbing to finish. So every session I'd basically be having a boulder session on the middle bit and trying to work that out. But I'd be trying to get more efficient on the top and the bottom each time as well. Yeah, so it was only towards the end and I was like, I've actually done the moves now.

and it took a while to do the bolder moves. So I was like, well, I've only got a few days left of the trip, so I better just start throwing myself at it. Yeah, got a bit lucky. So that was your longest project yet, done in one trip, so I'm assuming like a week or two? Yeah, so I was there 10 days in total, so I think I had eight sessions on it. Yeah, was maybe my longest proper project.

I think the first 8b I did I was like, yeah, the more I try, the more likely it is I do it. So I just hammered myself at it for like 10 days, which obviously didn't work. So technically I spent longer on my first 8b, but I'd say this was my first time like taking projecting reasonably seriously and thinking about it. That's fair. And you compared it to Columnos, which as you said, we all here at Lattice know how much you love going to warm weather, which is...

I think a lot of British climbers would disagree with traveling to warm weather in order to climb. I think everybody's like waiting for the grid conies and know negatives if not anything at least below 10 degrees is like meant to be the best time. So what makes you want to travel to warmer conditions and how do you adapt and or deal slash prefer with going to these countries where conditions are seen by others not ideal?

I just rubbish at the cold. I hate it. I go into like shut down. I'd say my best temperature is like 20 to 25 maybe. Like I just feel better. I'm warm. I can try harder. But I think, yeah, it started with just between comps. The only time I could go away was like in the middle of summer. You you train through winter. You compete through spring and autumn like the best times.

So I'd just go in somewhere nice and yeah, just like got used to sweating my way up to you first, I think. And then there's just like the appeal of climbing by the sea and having like the relaxing elements around the projecting or just climbing. I still have to go with you to coming over one day, honestly. But yeah, like.

Definitely can see how after all those comps, you just wanted to go like relax and then you ended up climbing. Yeah, exactly. crags. Yeah, you want a holiday and a rest. then... Yeah, you still ran and climbed on your holiday rest. And when you went on these holidays, you tend to go with like friends and family, right? Like it ends up being a whole like gathering, like wholesome moment. Yeah, I travel with my mom a lot because she really likes climbing and traveling.

So that's been really nice. We all go to Kalymnos so that's our thing to go there once a year. And then I have a few friends I like going away with, especially if I'm going somewhere a little bit more adventurous. Sounds good. And so if this was your holidays, then how did you manage to train for competitions when you were competing and then also got to rest enough?

when you're going on these holidays in order to come back for comp seasons. Because as you said, you were competing before and people listening, might not be aware of that. You did compete in proper intense scenes. You went to proper international comps as well as national comps and you were traveling a lot and training a lot. When I've gone climbing with you for a medium to easy session, you're there doing back to back routes and absolutely crushing it.

Yeah, I think between comps, for me the main thing was to like get away from it a bit. yeah, like Sheffield's quite an intense scene. think a lot of people know that like a lot of climbers come here and a lot of the comp scene like live around here. So yeah, between comps, I just wanted to get out and like just not think about it for a little bit. So it didn't really matter that I was still climbing or.

or like not officially resting. It was just a total change of scene. It gave me some perspective. Fair. And then how was your training when you had to train for the competitions? Like, is training for comps different from your current training for outdoor climbing? Yeah, it's been quite different actually. I think just training for comps is more complicated. There's more involved, know, especially if you're trying to do...

route and boulder comps, and then you've got to be good at slabs and jumps and like walking on volumes and there's so many like movement elements as well as the like the crazy high volume you've got to do to be able to perform like all day back to back days and comps. It's so simple now. I can just have a board session and that's it. I am enjoying the, it's quite refreshing to not be like, I've not done a slab this week.

Yeah, it doesn't matter so much.

So if you find that training is easier now, are you willing to go back to comps? And do you want to even go back to competition climbing? Because for those who are listening, they might not be aware that you stopped or took a break from competing and stuff. Yeah, the plan this year was always just to have a little break, have a year off and see how it is. I think I was just getting to the end of my tether a bit and needed a change.

So I've definitely not given up and I have still done a few local comps and like really enjoyed them. And I do really like the challenge and like the little wins you get in, well, whatever, you if you win a comp or you do a boulder, I think it's hard to beat that like high of a comp, like winning a comp, but then there's way more lows that are also out of your control more. Yeah, because a comp is like a one moment thing.

If just slightly something goes wrong, you know, that was sort of your one shot, isn't it? Whereas outdoors, you're projecting. can keep at it. You can go back to it. Like it's something I've talked to Will about is he always mentions how when he goes to comps, there's this adrenaline, this rush, the crowd around you, the excitement of like you've got this one shot, which can be seen as pressure and stress. But he always puts it in like it's so exhilarating.

being there in front of a crowd, feeling like, gosh, how did I get here? And then you're looking at this incredible boulder that's set by like amazing route setters like, gosh, this is amazing. You know, it's a moment thing, but he describes it as like a big spike of dopamine in that specific moment. Whereas he finds outdoors to be like calming. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in the same like, I think the high of top in a comp boulder and like the crowd behind you.

It's, you don't quite get the same thing outside, like even if you've put way more effort in. But yeah, I definitely needed a bit more, just chill. Like I wanted to be able to control things. Like when I felt good, I could turn up and try my project and things, things like that. So yeah, totally not, not giving up. I've not given up comps, but I am very much enjoying this year of outdoor climbing.

So does this mean you'll come visit me in Arco if I end up there in October or December or something? yeah, could be psyched Maybe you should come get on Excalibur. It's basically just a long boulder. I feel like you'd manage quite well. But I don't think I... I mean, I don't understand you fully in the sense, obviously I'm not in your position.

I don't exactly, I can't really step into your shoes, but I sort of understand you because I've heard similar things from other people. But it's cool that you're still competing and like enjoying it and having like the best of both worlds, you know? Because at the end of the day, whether people post about it or not, I really do think outdoor climbing ends up being for yourself. yeah, for sure. Because like you can post whether you've done something or haven't, but you're just outdoors. You're with yourself.

Nobody at the crack really cares if you've done something or not. Maybe your belayer because they'll know how hard you've been working on it. They will like be like, wow. Like, know, like Mario, we're talking about Mario. He's like the scene, this legend in the UK. And if he's listening, Mario, you're the best. He's like, he's just the most psyched guy. You could be climbing with everyone. This guy's just at the crack psyching everyone up. yeah. He's climbing with him the other day. Yeah, most people.

You know, just they're doing their own thing. So it's I think outdoor scene is definitely like when you realize, you know, you're doing your thing, enjoying it, having your projects and yeah. Yeah. On comp scene then, does this mean you may be going to the BLCs? BLCCs. BLCCs. Such a weird name. BLCCs sounds like BLT or something. Sounds like food.

The British League climbing championships. Yeah, I'd really like to go, but it's meant to be in two weeks and I haven't heard anything about it. So we'll see. I heard some some girls we may know who have also maybe retired or might be going. So I'll tell you after the podcast. maybe. Yeah. I'll tell you who to text if you still want to go. Nice. But yeah, I've got comp goals for sure that I will.

I will work towards. You think if they ever separated Boulder from LEAD, you'd like go back to trying to get into the GB team and like try to compete internationally if they actually separated Boulder from LEAD? I would definitely consider it more. think actually all this rock climbing has helped my indoor LEAD climbing more than I ever thought it would. And it seems like...

Maybe I'll be wrong in like, you know, for the next Olympic cycle or whatever, it might be that routes are even crazier, but it seems easier to switch between outdoor sport and indoor lead than it does between like comp bouldering and outdoors. I mean, you can see like as I'm on just struggling on boulders and people like, my God, I'm better than him because I did better. It's like, no.

He's a legend. It'll take anyone else to get there. yeah, like it's so dynamic and so like parkour lately. Yeah, exactly. bouldering. It's almost nothing to do with outdoors bouldering. I'm not saying the moves don't exist. It's just like, you know, when you look at the hardest things like Burden of Dreams, it's a flipping board with the smallest crimps ever. Like the latest one that Aiden did in Switzerland. It's like the smallest crimps ever.

And they've got almost, if you were indoors, it's like your route had to put a really small crimp and a block on top to block you from being able to even use half of that crimp. So it's like, if you actually wanted to, you know, translate from one to the other, then things would have to go back, God knows how many years, complies. People would not be happy if you set that kind of thing indoors, would they? Not at all. But then you have these outdoor bowlers just looking for everything. Looking for it.

Yeah, no, it's interesting because that's something else I've heard is certain people I've named here too many times now he has said how You know the only way he'd go back to competition climbing is if people were to separate boulder from sport Because he finds no joy in doing these like fun. Like he finds joy. Don't take me wrong He enjoys like going to the gym like to the hangar or whatever and like do some funky boulders, but then there's no point if

if what he really likes is like the ratty crimps. And it just takes so much time to like learn how to jump again or yeah, the crazy skills that you have to have now, bouldering. Yeah, it just takes time that then won't help with outdoors. Yeah, and I think you have to be like, I don't know, in your 18s to be like, have really good joints. So if you do fall on these volumes and you do these massive jumps, you don't start aching. No.

No, I think Adam's always complaining about his joints. It's hilarious. Yeah, but he's the bit next level with his contortion, isn't he? Yeah, he is. He is a bit. It's cool to hear, though, that you're still competing and you haven't closed that door. Yeah, not yet. Maybe give me three more moments so might say something different. We'll see. And has this whole competition scene and outdoor scene changed your coaching perspective? Like, do you think you've also grown as a coach?

after competing for all these years and now having made this change, do you think when now you make a training plan or talk to someone and they're doing certain projects outdoors, you consider certain aspects of training more than you did before? yeah, for sure. think having been a comp climber for most of my climbing career, your plan always looks kind of similar or you're working towards similar.

goals, like my peak phase would be really long because it would just be like a full comp season. And then now my training sort of shifted and the peaks can be like super small, like a week long trip and, and then like what to prioritize and things like that. Yeah. It's just given like my training is totally shifted. And then I think by doing a different style of training plan, you, I don't know, you just learn a few things, don't you like, and can relate to.

like a more diverse range of clients and then yeah, going through the project in process. And the new thing for me is like, I always just used to think, it was easy to train. Like I wanted to train, I could turn up and train. And now it's like, but I'm going to Kilsey tomorrow and I don't wanna be trashed. Like I've got projects on the go, I wanna do them, but that's not my main priority at the minute. You know, I'm like still trying to train for like a trip.

later in the year, but having that mental battle with myself, like, but I need to keep up my power, but I wanna go to Kilnsey feeling good. I haven't quite understood that in the past when well, clients or other climbers have talked to me about that and just been like, I just didn't do my board testing or whatever. And yeah, it's interesting being in their shoes. Yeah, because you don't just have one comp, you're like...

training for the next few months to get to, you're like, I really have this cool project I want to try and kill. But I also have this other project maybe in Kalimnos. Yeah. No, in a few months. And you're like, but then the weather wind was really good. Maybe I also go to this other crag this weekend. It's like, how are you going to train and go outdoors and manage to rest? And you love your running. Like running too is like breathing. then how do you do? You know, it's a battle. It's a balancing. yeah. And I'm still learning. I think I enjoy.

being like fitting the training in, feeling quite busy, getting outdoors and then like turning up at the crowd and being like, yeah, it's kind of a training day. Like it's quite relaxing. You know, don't, there's no pressure to send, but then if you do, you've, you've like worked a bit harder, but definitely have to remind myself of like my priorities quite regularly now. Whereas yeah, If you've just got like one comp coming up and then you might get outdoors still, but.

You know, you've always, the outdoors is the fun bit that you're just doing because you can. And then it's always the priorities, comp was, yeah, I don't know. I want to feel good at Killing Z tomorrow. I feel like a new woman now being like, I can do all these things now and I don't mind if something gets put aside. No, I think that's the way to go. think feeling less pressure and like doing more of what you want to do and like more stuff that...

brings you different kinds of joys, so it's good. Yeah, you the real easier thing is my skin is so much better. Like I can think about my skin, like if I'm going rock climbing, yeah I can go on the board at least and be like yeah I don't need to go and trash myself on like macros. So that's been nice, I've not like gone through a tip in months. Yeah, no more comps taking your skin away.

going into not just competing but climbing at such high grades What do you think are like some common mistakes or misconceptions that you or you see other climbers do when breaking into like these higher grades like did you go in thinking

certain aspects of your training or certain aspects of your lifestyle were gonna help and then they didn't or did you think like projecting one way would help and then it didn't you know because you see people like me and then other fellow beginners because even though I've for years I still have certain beginner behaviors where I'll say I'm projecting and then I'm still trying to climb from the beginning I'm not you know going by sections and understanding of movements like that's still very new for me and I've been climbing for borderline 10 years

Are there like misconceptions in getting to grades like all the way to 8c or higher where you just you think people need to remember have certain mindsets and ideas that I don't realize? Well the first thing that springs to mind was I in the past have totally undervalued time on rock. I always thought yeah if you're strong enough you've trained you're fit enough yeah go out try something hard on rock but

I did really notice this year just getting out like twice a week or just keeping it pretty consistent and a few different styles. Just yeah, it massively helped like my approach to rock climbing. I'd like see little tricks sooner. Yeah, I don't know. It really helped. And then like building that pyramid was really good confidence boost, learning how to project, learning when it's like, you know what, maybe I can just pull it off. I'll dig deep and...

Yeah, power screen my way through. Like I don't need to perfect it. Or yeah, when to just try something nails and yeah, hard to say, but that would be the big one. Like consistent time on rock has massively helped. So it's not a lie. I people tell you like, you can train as much as you like indoors, but you outdoor mileage. You need, yeah. Yeah. Cause like I can't hold that too much. And I think you obviously can get somewhere. Like I used to...

not have the time to get outside, like I'd never climb in the UK, but I would always go to Kalimnos basically. So I was getting used to the style still and it would take a few days to get comfy again each trip. yeah, just feeling like you've got a bit of momentum rolling throughout the season. That's huge. Yeah, that's my other one actually, a bit of momentum's useful, like getting a few sends in. So I actually did something this year that I've never done, but.

I, every time I went climbing, I'd like have a focus of, or like a goal of the day was to project something. But I'd always try and get a slightly easier send, like at the end of the day, or as a warmup. So every, every single session I would send something. And it started off like way below my like limit, but you know, pulling it out like second go at the end of a session was, was really tough.

But then you build that capacity, also the, you have to climb it well if you're tired. You've got to learn to climb it the best way. So I'd pick up skills on much easier grades for me. And then just found I could implement them on higher and higher grades. for, I've been climbing outside since June this season it kind of started. So now like.

end of August, my easiest end for the day is a much higher grade than it was at the start of June. I found that has helped quite a lot as well. So if you were to apply this to your average climber, let's say me, right? For example, my goal, if I end up going to ARCO, is to do the 7C

which I don't think it's gonna be done in a day, I think it's gonna take maybe a week, two weeks to get done, would you say, after warming up a bit so I don't get flash bump, I should be going and doing some sixes, or should I be trying to do a 7A, second or third go that session, either at the beginning or at the end, climbing one? What is the great range we're talking about?

Yeah, I'd maybe just start with a six or something and like just try it as a warm up or at the end. And then as you get a few under your belt, you know, two or three, then what I quite like doing is say getting a warm up route prepped or, so say you had a 7A, you'd like put the drawers in as your warm up, just work out the moves, then have your full session on the 7C. And then at the end of the day, see if you can do the 7A clean when you're tired, but you've got it prepped.

It basically at that point is just like a bit of endurance and a bit of a battle, like can you do it? And obviously there's like caveats, if you're, you don't want to be getting trashed every day, like this works in the UK because I probably won't climb back to back days outside. So I can then have a bit of a rest or like lower the intensity of my training the next day if I've really got tired. But yeah, I did find it super useful.

and it got a lot of momentum going, you get to go home and like log something. It's nice, isn't So it's not just a mileage thing, it's like a confidence thing that then reminds you that you can tick, can like send stuff in a session. It doesn't have to be at your limit. Yeah, exactly. And you get a little boost, a little kick. Yeah, just thought it was nice. And yeah, maybe it sounds like I just get kicks from sending, but I'd be shocked if no, like if...

there wasn't a climber that didn't get a kick from a little send and it helped them. Yeah, and it's demotivating going to crags and not sending. Like when I was in America for like seven weeks, you know, every time, because I was bouldering, not sport climbing there, I got really shut down because I had been training so much. really wanted to, as you know, do my first like V10 in America as well as sight. And I got so focused. Like I think I spent the first.

Not even first week. I spent like the first like three weeks just trying really hard climbs. then I just went down in tears one day. was like, I can't climb. I'm a S -H -I -T climber. Like, this is horrible. Why'd I even bother? And my partner was like, you know, like you've never climbed in this crag before. You're just no offense. Like wasting time on these really short boulders. I'm also scared of high balls in America's mainly high balls. So he was like.

just work your way through. And then I spent like another three weeks probably just going through, I think, literally all the way from like V2 to V7, V8. Just like going my way through them and just having to do stuff in a session. Or like in the day I had to like, at least have one take. So I could go home and be like, I've done something. And it sounds really like egotistical in a way, but it really is a motivating.

going to crag spending your whole day there or like after we're going and not coming home with anything. So I think I get where you're coming from and I'm definitely going to try and apply that to sport climbing. I think it helps. Definitely with the motivation and like a bit of scrap, know if you know you can do something, you'll just scrap to do it. You'll be like, well, I did all the moves earlier. This is a grade I can do or something. Yeah, I'll just fight. And then it gives you like the access to that try hard. But yeah, in like a...

a lower sort of mental level. That's good. I'll take the advice in. I recommend everyone takes that advice in. And then when you were saying you started, you know, power screaming to push to that extra limit and like really push hard. Did you not power scream before? And on top of that question, what are other things you've done to really go in and really proper give your all? Because I personally, and I don't know if listeners do as well, I have a really hard time.

Like this year and last year I think I've told you personally, I don't think I've given my all. Like I think there's something missing and I don't know how to get that out and start pushing as hard as I used to. I just think that when I do something, I'm like, yeah, I think I could have done it Yeah, I think it is like a switch, isn't it? Like accessing that try hard. I know when mine's like on and when it's off.

And it can be pretty frustrating if you're like, my gosh, I am not trying as hard as I can, but it's really difficult to switch it on. think, yeah, I'd say for me, you've got to break it down into something simple and extremely achievable. So I often say I've got a route dialed, but there's like three hard moves. And so, yeah, this was the top of dalliance actually in Kilnsey, one of the routes I did this season.

was like I'd done the bottom so much and I could just get there like pretty smoothly. And then the top was just really hard, four move bolder for me. But I was like, well, it's four moves I can do. So just do them. Like, I know it sounds really Just try hard. Yeah, I know it sounds simple, but like I really broke it down to four moves. So I just get there, get to the little shake out, be like, right, it's four moves, come on. Like it'll be quicker just to try hard and get them done.

And you've just broken it to something that is so achievable and it's not like, my gosh, I've got a 30 -move route and I've got to try hard at the top. It's like, no, just this tiny section, give it everything. So that really helped. And then with the power screaming, like I had power screaming before, but it surprises me every time it comes out. It'll just come out, like you're not expecting it, it just comes out.

I mean, I have to be really trying and like on like tensiony moves or something. But yeah, I've shocked myself quite a few times, but then it's so satisfying. Wow. Like I did try hard. That's interesting. Fair, fair point. I haven't power skimmed in my life. I think I just go like, I don't know if I even went through the mic, but that's literally how I probably sound. Yeah, that doesn't count.

Looking back at your climbing journey, how do you feel about where it began? So like with all the competitions and how all the competitions have gone so far. So all the way to literally becoming like the hardest female ascent as a British woman. how like when you look back at it, like say you you're looking as a third person and you're looking at this timeline. How do you feel about all this progress that's come up to now?

You go like, well, I never expected that. Or do you go, you know what, I worked really flipping hard. Like. Yeah, this is, I don't know, it's a weird one. Sorry for the weird question. it's fine. It just feels like quite personal. Cause in a way I've always worked towards comps, had comp goals and I've put in so much work. was like, wanted to kind of, you know, I wanted to be known or like make a difference or.

be like, you know, inspire people. And then basically for me, I like failed at my comp goals. Like I achieved quite a few on the way and I was super psyched, but essentially my end goal, I failed. And so yeah, that was really hard to like kind of know when to stop and just have a break and then try and reframe it as like, well, I'm not, you know, I've put the work in, I'm not.

rubbish. I can use all those skills and things I've learnt to push boundaries in other ways or at least achieve things that make me feel like it was all worthwhile and push my limits. So yeah, I'm still coming to terms with that. I mean, it's hard because if your goal had to do with Comka, I I'm assuming you mean like the Olympics. Yeah, the Olympics or making

even just like consistent semi -finalist so that people are like, yeah, you're an accomplished comp climber. But the thing is you are an accomplished comp climber even if you don't feel like it because like you might not realize and maybe I'm ego boosting you here but like you might not realize but people are aware of you not just because of climbinghistory .org. There you go Remus, you're welcome. Yeah, thanks Remus. But not just because of it but like when people are in Sheffield.

and they see what you've done. Whether or not you're a coach at Lattice, whether or not people see you in Sheffield or in Manchester or whatever. Like you have competed at a high level and a lot of people have it. Like I think it's difficult sometimes when you are in certain scenes to have the perspective of, know, you feel like a small fish in this giant pond. But have you realized that it's actually not that big? Like the people that go to international comps.

Yeah, there's like a lot of people that go. But even the assortment that go aren't that big comparatively to everyone that's climbing thinking they'll do it one day. Like, I don't know, like there's countries that still, their athletes, unfortunately, haven't even been able to go to a comp because they're not there grid -wise. And that's okay. Like you've gone to like proper international. I remember like getting links from you or Gwyneth or Henna and like watching everyone like.

and like, wow, like it's amazing. I'll never get to do that. Like I've accepted ages ago, I am not ever gonna get to that level, but like it is incredible what you do and you do inspire people. well thanks T. And you might only realize it like now with your outdoors, but I think it's like you said, like the whole, you wanna inspire people and you feel, cause you just use the words of like, you felt like you fail at your objective. I don't think you fail at your objective.

because I think you are accomplished and I think you do inspire a lot of people. Like, I don't know if you realize, but there's a lot of places where people will look up to you and others and be like, wow, I could do that one day. Well, that's very nice. But guess I still would set myself goals every year and I wouldn't, you know, I did achieve them a few times, but the end goal was, I just, I had to.

It almost helped that I said I failed, like, am I okay with that? Yeah, you know what, for now, that's fine. I'll pursue some other goals. I've always had a few on the go, yeah, I'll just focus on something else for now and then decide if it's worth going back or I'll just become a runner, maybe. Maybe, who knows, maybe you'll start competing in running. I could see you do that. Yeah, I did always wonder.

Say climbing separates at the Olympics, it's lead climbing on its own. Whether I'd find it easier to be getting the Olympics as a marathon runner or lead climber. And I genuinely weighed this up the other day after the Olympics. So I wonder what Why not? You heard it here first. If you start seeing Jen Wood's name in marathon running, there you go. I think marathon would be harder. I mean, both would be nails.

having looked at the volume, blimey. Damn, But yeah, like overall, I think it's good that you can look at things. And obviously in the moment I it was really upsetting, feeling like, you you didn't accomplish certain things. But yeah, like you have other goals now and you still grow as a person from it. Yeah, and I think the decision was actually really quick. Like it was almost after the British champs last year, the British lead champs.

And it was the end of like a pretty long season of unpredictable circumstances as well, actually, like getting ready for a comp or you're not going to the comp or definitely thinking I'm selected. And then they changed the criteria last second. And then at the end of the British Champs and I came forth, you know, and I was, I was just devastated. And I was like, right, I'm going on holiday. I'm going to do something hard. I'd like, I've trained hard for this. I'm just going to use it in my own control.

It was cool. That was when I went to Havar and did that project. And it was so cool to be in control. I only had eight sessions, so I did have a time limit. But it like, if I just try harder, I can go home with this send. And that was on me. And that was mint. And I think I used all that. That was mint. I that. I kind of just channeled it all.

So yeah, wasn't like, I wasn't like wallowing in my failure for weeks or anything. It was literally like a week between those two things. And I think that was really good for me. I was like, all right, you know what? It's not like a wasted 15 years of my life, it?

But yeah. On this whole sense of inspiring people though, like how do you hope to impact the climbing community though now, like with your personal achievement and your work as a coach? Although I do know if people aren't aware that you have a chemistry degree. Biochemistry. Biochemistry degree, pardon.

Pardon me. Like A, do you think you'll always just coach and you like from the fulfillment you get from it, do you think you'll ever go back to your biochemistry degree? And then B, like how do you hope to impact the world with, you know, all the achievements and everything they're up to right now? Hmm. Yeah, I think. Sorry, very philosophical questions. No, no, it's fine. It's all good.

Yeah, part of me wants to be successful. think, well, yeah, that sounds pretty egotistical as well. think it is just one of those drivers for me. I've put the time in, I've worked really hard. I want to be like, yeah, I achieved cool stuff as a climber. But also the kind of kicks and the joy I get from it, it's so cool that I can...

coach people and influence that and help them have that same joy. Just sending a project or doing well in a comp, I think that's awesome. And you're sharing all that psych. So it's very cool in that way. And even, I'll get back from the crowd and I'll have a few emails or a plan to write. And I'm just more psyched from that. Cause I'm like, yeah, I had this.

sick day at the crag and now I'm gonna help this person have some mint days as well. And that's really cool. Like it's, yeah, almost given me a lot more motivation with that. And then, yeah, I'd like love to use my biochemistry at some point. Like I really liked doing my degree. I think the ideal would be to use it to help my coaching. So like do some research.

Just wait for it. One day we won't just have educational courses. We'll have like a whole biology and chemistry course on like everything behind what happens in your body when you're Yeah. Wait for it. I've actually proposed that once to the marketing team. I was actually like, you know, I do have like a bioengineering degree and Gens got like, cause I always go like, I think it's a chemistry degree, but you have said it's part of chemistry. was like, we should just get together and be like.

explain even further the details of what happens. think it's cool. Bam. We'll wait until somebody listens to those ideas and actually comes through. Yeah, but I'm sure a lot of people, they understand things more. Like doing an arc session is flipping boring, but if you know what's going on. Like I never believed people who told me, you should do your endurance at the end of your session. Like do not bother in the beginning. I always thought I was just coaches being coaches. And then one day, I think it was you being like...

Yeah, I mean, like, you know, you get lactic acid and then you were talking to me and like we both understood and I was like, flipping heck, you were right. I need to leave it. And now like I have to do my one on one off or or like my 10 minutes on the wall at the end and I just get bored. But at least I know why I have to do it then, because like we just had Coach Fran come in and say how a client keeps agglomerating or putting too many training things.

in one session and she was like, how do I? What was that word you just used? Agglomerate. I don't think that's a word. Is it not accumulating then? Can you tell English isn't my first language?

But yeah, right, just made Jen cry. All right, so Coach Fran had or has a client who accumulates things to do in a session, just does, I guess in a way, too much. Or maybe they don't organize it well enough. And it's like, if they knew why things were set and put in a certain way and why you should do your endurance at the end, why you should do, you know, if you're going to have intense sessions, maybe do it.

after you rest and not like, if you chose to do two days on or three days on, maybe don't do it on the third day kind of thing. I think if people, the more people are knowledgeable in an area, the better they'll understand and make the right decisions. And there's also just a lot of gaps that we don't know. You know, like haven't definitely optimized yet. And I think that would be so interesting to look into and learn a bit more about.

We'll see. We'll go into biomechanics and chemistry. One day soon.

So to finish off the podcast today, after all this crying for good things and laughing, do you have any dream routes and climbing destinations? Or just like, what's your biggest aspiration and thing you really want to do? like, not like long run, we're not talking like 10 years time, we're talking like in the next like two to five years, if you could choose to do something.

indoors or outdoors? I actually think, so I've got just little goals for trips and things, but I wanna do something I've not done before in climbing, like go and do a big multi -pitch or try, tried climbing. I don't know, it doesn't seem like a big goal I need to.

train for or anything, but you can just push the comfort zone a bit. I feel like I've got a bit of space now I don't have to do dinos and things. So it's like, why not just try another element of climbing, see if I like it. I mean, I might just, I might hate it, I don't know. But there's, also, like I've got this fridge magnet of that multi -pitch inside in the air. I think it's so cool that it's on just a normal tourist fridge magnet.

So that could be cool, but that means I need to go and learn how to do a multi -pitch before I try an AB multi -pitch. We have plenty of people at us to ask about gear and multi -pitching. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably my biggest sort of desire. It's some variety. Yeah. Yeah. something new in. Yeah. Just pushing the comfort zone a little bit. And then, yeah, I've got...

I've got projects on the go in Kalimnos. I'd love to put up an FA in Kalimnos as well, or like, bolt one. I've never tried bolting either, so that's the other potential new thing to give it a go. I think that would be so cool. And I've gone to Kalimnos so much. think it'd be nice to give back, go and bolt something cool. that's so awesome. Yeah, I might do some running quests next trip.

See what I can find. good. Well, thanks so much for coming and talking to me. thanks everyone for listening. And don't forget, if you like the podcast, leave some comments below. And yeah, thanks so much. See you later. See ya.