Marriage Lab

Breaking Free from Passivity: Empowering Your Marriage with Intentional Action

• Aaron & Jenna Zint • Season 3 • Episode 57

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Can passivity be the silent killer in your marriage? In this episode, Aaron and Jenna get real about their own struggles with passivity, sharing how ignoring, avoiding, or delaying discomfort led to feelings of being stuck. Through candid personal stories, they shed light on how this behavior can evolve into rationalizations and bitterness, affecting everything from relationships to personal growth. Aaron also provides insight into his upcoming online small group for porn recovery, where passivity is a common issue, while Jenna talks about managing her impulsive reactions and learning to take measured, thoughtful actions.

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Speaker 1:

We've never seen a perfect marriage.

Speaker 2:

But we have seen marriages that are full of laughter and life.

Speaker 1:

Conflict and misunderstandings, growth and hope. We want to dive into the nuts and bolts of those relationships.

Speaker 2:

There are no experts here, just real talk with real couples who really like each other.

Speaker 1:

This is Marriage Lab with Erin and Jenna. This is Marriage Lab. I'm Erin.

Speaker 2:

And I'm Jenna.

Speaker 1:

And we're talking about passivity today, in both ourselves and in marriage. And before we dive right into passivity, I to say um, patreon, we we actually had a couple paid people become members of our patreon, which is the habit lab.

Speaker 2:

Patreon, slash the habit lab and for those of you who don't know, we just ask that if you get benefit from the show, if you consider supporting the show, it could be as little as five dollars a month. It's just.

Speaker 2:

It helps us prioritize, like right now it's a sunday afternoon and or we are taking time away from our kids to make new shows. So knowing that there is a bit of income helps us continue to bring you content. So shout out to amanda valencia and um, oh my gosh, it just went away, but my friend I can't think, angela nordstrom I remember her she's done habit lab a couple rounds. She's so sweet, so thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

If you consider doing that, we'll always put the link into the show, and yeah, so let's dive into passivity which let's avoid it actually would be more accurate, and one of the main reasons we're talking about this is my online small group. It's a porn recovery course online small group that I'm starting next week. Next Saturday, September 14th, it's going to be.

Speaker 2:

Three months.

Speaker 1:

Yep 12 weeks long, so it is pretty last minute. But if you want to jump in you absolutely can. Just check the link in the show notes online small group.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, if this resonates with you, or if it resonates with the dynamic you experience in your marriage, chat with your husband about it.

Speaker 1:

Yep, so okay, passivity. Let's start by defining that. The reason why we're talking about this at all is because I talk a lot about passivity in regards to men feeling stuck in porn, but it's not just for that, it's not unique to that up. I think passivity is common to the human experience but because we all know what it feels like to feel stuck, and I'd say one of the ways that you know that there's some passivity in your life is when you are not moving forward in one area, when you feel stuck. And so let's start by just defining what we mean by passivity. I think we all have a general idea of what our own definition is, but I would say passivity is ignoring, avoiding, delaying discomfort and or pushing away things that scare us. So avoiding, ignoring or delaying things that scare us or that make us feel uncomfortable or that we don't want to do for one reason or another and you know what I think.

Speaker 2:

What I've noticed is an area that maybe starts with passivity. I feel like oftentimes it creeps into something else, like maybe a story I'm telling myself like that would never work, like I almost justify my stance and then I realize that's it almost like gets worse, it's like the entryway drug, but then it becomes like it spoils into bitterness or offense or I have all these reasons why I can't do it. Because, at this point I have to, almost like it's kind of probably a subconscious self-protection, to justify staying stuck. It is.

Speaker 1:

It is and I one of the things that, one of the ways that I have recognized passivity in my life is when I find myself rationalizing inaction in any one area, and when I say rationalizing, sometimes it seems like wisdom. However, as I've been on the journey of discovering areas of my life where I've been passive, aka areas of my life where I've been stuck, I've begun to realize how much I was rationalizing inaction in the name of emotional health in the name of wisdom, patience or relational health.

Speaker 2:

And I would say the opposite, because then sometimes I would do the opposite, where I'd realize maybe I had been passive and avoiding something, and then I'd be like, oh, I don't do that. And then I would like, almost just like jump into action without thinking does that make sense? So then I'd be like I text a person and be like I'm sorry, I've been avoiding you for four months, like I had some pain a couple weeks, you know, like actually almost take sloppy Sure yeah.

Speaker 2:

Instant action versus oh like, when I do recognize passivity, I do make some step towards action. Like internally I'm like, oh, passivity doesn't get a vote with how I show up. But I think, even just going to my perception on change. So you know, I teach Habit Lab. My catchphrase is little bits of better, and I think sometimes with passivity, when I'd recognize I was doing it.

Speaker 2:

I'd want to go to dramatic action, but then I'd often make messes and then be like, oh, maybe it was wisdom to not, you know, like I made such a mess. So this idea of like, oh, I can just almost like, put the part the car and drive instead of neutral, I don't have to slam my foot on the gas but I I could either text the friend and be like hey, let's grab coffee sometime, or something, rather than Does this make sense?

Speaker 2:

Like overshooting the mark of which is probably more unique to my personality, but yeah, I definitely don't relate to that.

Speaker 1:

I think it's important to recognize that your passive. However, whatever passivity looks like to you, it looks like that to you because of your personality type and your experiences, so passivity will show up differently for different people.

Speaker 2:

And in different areas like what you're avoiding is usually probably a weakness area, right?

Speaker 1:

Would you say like yeah, well there, yeah, I would. Yes, I would say that Not just weakness.

Speaker 2:

I think there's other aspects. Yeah, well, I think, yes, I would say that Not just weakness. I think there's other aspects.

Speaker 1:

Yeah well, I think we would tend to avoid things that we don't feel good at, and so that would make a lot of sense. So for me, I'm a nine on the Enneagram, so I naturally dislike confrontation or conflict. Nines typically struggle with feeling like they have a voice. Nines typically struggle with feeling like they have a voice partly because they struggle with sharing that voice and actually vocalizing their opinions, especially when it may be contrary to what's popular or contrary just to what the person shares in their own relationship, or if it could potentially inconvenience somebody. So as a result, my passivity showed up in that I would kind of suppress. I would suppress a lot of emotions. I'd get bitter and resentful and sarcastic and passive, aggressive.

Speaker 2:

That would be almost like what we just talked about started with passivity and then it more crept in.

Speaker 1:

Yes, exactly, that's good.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so for me, especially in my relationship with you, that showed up a lot where I would feel something and then, because I was scared of it creating disconnection or I was scared of being rejected by you, if I was to share something vulnerable, I would just shove it, and obviously that is a strategy that didn't work. But it's important to note that it's a strategy, and it's a strategy not because you suck as a person, but because you're speaking in terms of parts work. Part of me believed that was the best way to take care of myself. That's the safest course of action. The safest course of action is to not share this thing, because part of the rationalization was that it would.

Speaker 1:

You know what? It's not that big of a deal. The thing that I felt is probably wrong anyways, or Jenna, you know what? Jenna's not going to even handle it as well, so it's better if I just hold this inside. So I had lots of rationalizations, but all those rationalizations were supporting all the things about my nineness that were unhealthy, which is avoiding conflict, avoiding confrontation, avoiding having a voice, avoiding having an opinion.

Speaker 2:

I was going to say. One of the things I have noticed is that when people do go on the journey of like, so then you went on a journey of figuring out what your voice was, and being like doing the opposite of what passivity patterns you had. Sometimes I think people get almost like loud with their voice, like almost use it like a tool to hit, like you know, a one-year-old with a plastic camera, like I have a voice.

Speaker 2:

I have a voice and I think I would say that, like it's so important if you're, when you uncover areas of passivity to you know, take action. There's this great quote I love about this area that says what you're not changing, you're choosing. So, even if, like, it is like a one percent change, if you're going after growth in that area, like you're still making an investment. It's not the goal isn't to be overnight a new person. But my point is, with the like, finding your voice is, I still think you are responsible, like in this journey with how you share it, so simply sharing it.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes people are like I'm so proud, like how come you're not proud of me? It's been years of me not sharing. And you're like well, because you had judgment and you had lots of blame, and there's accusation and there's character attacks in there. So I just want to say like, even in the process of when we're finding our voice and coming out of passivity, you're 100% still responsible for showing up in love.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, another definition of passivity is any area of your life in which you're avoiding responsibility, and so this would be big for part of my stepping into the realm of having a voice and having an opinion. Having these things like that was that when I shared those, I had to take 100% responsibility for those opinions and those, or the pain, say for with you sharing, oh, this hurt. I had to take responsibility for the fact that I was suppressing this. I had to take responsibility for the fact that this is a button that you may have unintentionally pushed, but it's my button and I'm the one who has the button.

Speaker 2:

Versus saying all the things you suppressed and verbally vom, verbally vomiting on the other person and being like wait, aren't you happy for me, like that was breakthrough, and you're like I just got puked on in your breakthrough yeah, and so well, can I?

Speaker 1:

give an example.

Speaker 2:

I remember uh, I just love real life examples one of the journeys, so I am naturally let's go on an adventure. Let's you know, free trip. Yep, yep, free tickets, airline tickets. You want me where?

Speaker 1:

no problem, let's go camping um my growth with this, with free tickets. What are you sorry?

Speaker 2:

like a free trip here or when I worked at the airport I had free plane tickets.

Speaker 2:

So jenna's growth path has been not accepting every trip or vacation idea or acting on it so in that there was a a season where Aaron didn't like traveling as much, and then I'd ask him if I could go on this trip, whether you know lots of places, and he would say, yes, maybe slowly. And then I'd be like, okay, and then I'd make plans and then I'd go on the trip and I'd come back to an obviously off Aaron, and then what would you say, like was going on in that season where we well, how about this? And then, as years, as you learned to not be passive and find your voice, you I remember the first time I came back and you were off and I was like what happened? And you're like I think I told you yes and it needed to be a no, Like it was. Actually. The honest answer was a no. I feel really mad that you didn't know it was, you know, like or disappointed.

Speaker 1:

I don't remember this, so you're going to have to tell the rest.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So like disappointed that it wasn't a no. And then I felt sad because I was like, oh no, I can't trust his yeses, like I'm getting in trouble for not knowing it was a no. And then I would say this is over the course of a year and a half, two years.

Speaker 1:

Then I remember the last time that you came, oh yeah you said you well, I remember you actually proposing a trip and um, I said, uh, I'm this would. This is gonna cost me quite a bit and I don't want like, but I I'm, you can go, because it was. I think it was an important trip. It wasn't just like a I have fun trip yeah but, um, I don't know, is that the story you're gonna?

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, keep going okay.

Speaker 1:

So, uh, I I said, hey, this is gonna cost me, it will be a, it'll be a pretty big bummer for me, um, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna let you, I'm gonna say yes, um, but, and it will cost me, however I'm gonna, I'm not gonna hold it against you, but it will cost me quite a bit.

Speaker 2:

And I don't remember what I think it was like maybe more of a family trip and I decided to say yes anyways, and then I actually felt so appreciative but you didn't punish me. I think that was the difference. When you started finding your voice and being honest, you then like the ownership piece you were just talking about, of like hey, I realized that I, with the second part of this example I gave, when you were like I said yes and it was actually a no, I'm sorry, I wasn't honest, like that was that was.

Speaker 2:

Maybe you didn't catch your voice in real time sure, but you owned, instead of saying blaming jenna for knowing you know like I think you told me the narrative of something in your head like she should have known better, she. I wish she wouldn't even ask me or make me say no and and then so progress, like the next step for you was like telling me, like, hey, I should like owning that, and then the next step was giving me you know, in real time, expressing your needs.

Speaker 2:

So that was part of like part of our, I think, trips and fun and spending has been the biggest growth path, because I'm probably less mature in it and I would do it more often just by personality in it, and I would do it more often just my personality, and then you had to like, wanted to stick up or you'd have different opinions about how we spend our money or time. So I think that I don't know.

Speaker 1:

I was just thinking about that's a big growth path for us yeah, I, because I that this is my personality type. That'll definitely like be a lot of what we share. I do want to say, like I I have a buddy who's an eight on the Enneagram, and how passivity shows up for him is like he has a hard time admitting fault, has a hard time showing any kind of weakness or sometimes a hard time with humility, and so that passivity will show up in those ways for him. Or I have a three friend, uh, who, uh, passivity is he won't do things that are he can't be the best at.

Speaker 2:

Um, so can I say passivity for me? Passivity for me is avoiding, like if it's painful, like our bank account. For years, you guys, I did not have the logins to our bank accounts and I think they're saved now. But the point is, because I avoided what, it was uncomfortable. So if it's painful, just pretend like it doesn't exist.

Speaker 2:

And I would literally I remember other areas paint like this, or maybe like insurance or really intense paperwork that I was not good at. I would rather avoid and pretend like it didn't exist until the consequences caught up with me enough that I couldn't avoid it anymore. Yeah, which is terrible, but like just honest.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I mean it's important to recognize that your passivity is attempting. I don't believe this is a demon and I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's a good part of you with a bad strategy, and so I think it's important to recognize that where you have passivity, you don't need to heap shame on it. You need to recognize that the reason you're avoiding this is because there's a part of you that goes oh, we're going to be better taken care of if we don't go down that path. We're going to be better off or safer if we disengage from this present moment. We're going to be better or safer if we pass the blame off to somebody else. It may be an immature part and a poor strategy, but it's not bad.

Speaker 2:

I would say I hear this a lot with couples when they fall into their well-worn dysfunctional patterns. They often both justify staying stuck in the patterns with passivity. Well, this is what happens, this is what we do. Until he does so and so, or she always, you're like totally. You, literally. You know, hold the power to do something different right so like just noticing like that's a common area if there's pain like a painful pattern there's probably passivity on both sides of the equation yeah.

Speaker 1:

So I'd say um, passivity, like the kind of the antidote to um, and I list this in my book, numb to Known on Amazon. Find the link, all that stuff, the four kind of areas that I recognize. Going after this will help relieve your passivity would be one intentionality. There's nothing that is more productive than looking at something and going, oh, I'm going to do something about it rather than wait till something changes.

Speaker 2:

So that's Like do something to it rather than it happened to you on some level. Yes, In Banning Leapshire Jesus Culture Fun fact I was his PA for three years back in the day.

Speaker 1:

His worst PA because admin is not my strength. Well, he kept a worse PA for three years, that's a long time.

Speaker 2:

I'm a kind, bad admin person.

Speaker 1:

Well, he has a great quote where he says the difference between people who don't do something and those who do something is that those who do something do something. That's the only difference. There's no fundamental flaw that like, oh, I haven't taken action in this area and it's because of you, can blame all the things you want, but it's because you haven't done something. And so intentionality is simply saying I'm going to do X and then following through, and what we've discovered in the realm of habits is that many times, we actually need to make that a smaller thing rather than a humongous thing, which is why another reason why we tend to avoid or even if we make plans and are intentional with our plans, we aren't intentional with making them realistic and then following through with them.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh Like, so, true, so like. I think the last time I counted like 350 people have done my habit lab mastery course. And I would say it feels like when I'm teaching them how to build a habit and you haven't tell them offensively small. I would say 80% of the people overshoot what their first like. We call it a starter step should be like it's just bigger. Like it's just shocking to me how much we think the first step is so just encouraging you like action is action. Don't judge what you know.

Speaker 2:

like making it harder on yourself, like once you're in motion. I always think about. An object in motion stays at motion, and object at rest stays at rest. It's kind of sums up passivity. So you just getting in motion is helpful, and then you'll do the next thing. Next versus having a path of how am I going to tackle this and uproot this entirely for my life, you know like it's too much and then people get overwhelmed.

Speaker 2:

It's funny if they're trying to tackle passivity and like kickstart action, but then they try to wait to have like the perfect plan or a big action step, they get overwhelmed and they go back to passive.

Speaker 1:

It's almost like keeps them in that loop.

Speaker 2:

So if you're actually looking for help with your habits, my mastery course is going to start the first week in October. We won't do it again until January. It's a 10-week online in-person class and the link is in the bio for the show notes.

Speaker 1:

Yep, and so intentionality is the first one. I would say ownership is the second one. I always think back to when you and I bought our first house and so we wanted to change a bunch of stuff in there. And if you compare that to when we were renting, all before that, we had to ask permission to put nail holes in the wall to hang up a picture. We had to ask permission if we wanted to hang curtains. We had to ask for permission if we wanted to paint something, and a lot of times the answer is no, because we didn't own the place and other people really, um, didn't want to make a lot of changes. When we got to our new house, uh, we realized we wanted to redo the kitchen. I didn't know what to do. I've never remodeled a kitchen before. Jenna didn't care about that and she took a hammer and a crowbar and started breaking things and so that it was irreparably damaged, so that we had to keep going. She just started shattering tile and I was like, okay, we're already, we're just diving in.

Speaker 2:

Oh my gosh, if there's never been a more accurate picture in the personality dynamic difference in our marriage. And I like wasn't even trying to be a jerk about it, I just was like, well, we know we're doing this, here's the ugliest part.

Speaker 1:

I'm going to smash that first, and so, yes, the difference, though, is that we actually got to make a gigantic change that was lasting, because even all the changes we attempted to make, in all the places we rented from the people who owned it, they're the ones who put it back to normal. So this is an example, an analogy, to say when you are an owner an extreme owner of your life and the consequences in your life, you have the most power to make the most change. Any area of your life that you don't take ownership in, you don't have power to change it, you don't have power to affect it or to make it lasting.

Speaker 2:

And I think we hear so often in coaching people miss say like they make me feel powerless and I always think about like if power is like a hammer?

Speaker 1:

it's like.

Speaker 2:

no one actually can make you feel powerless. You're putting your power down Like based on how they show up. They might trigger you. You might get a lot of narratives about how they show up and what they're saying, or even what they're saying, but it's you ultimately who's putting your hammer down. Like you can actually always keep it in your hand regardless. The other person cannot talk it out of your hand.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and so, taking honest, there's a book called extreme ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babbitt, and there, have you read that? Yeah, it's incredible. The audible book is the best. Book is the best.

Speaker 2:

Lots of navy seal stories, because they're both navy seals, um, and their voices are epic. Is it gonna make me want to do a full iron man?

Speaker 1:

triathlon. It'll make you want to join the navy seals sorry kids, mom's got another call in yeah, uh, it's in, it's incredible.

Speaker 1:

But their whole message is that, like, basically everything's your Now, if you're hearing this from the opposite end of the spectrum, where you've taken on way too much than you need to, you get it. This isn't for you. However, if you're experiencing, if you're stuck in some area, you feel like your marriage is stuck, you're stuck in porn. You feel like you're stuck in. It doesn't matter where it is. The next level of ownership is not I suck, it's that I am the problem and therefore I am the solution. And so the more ownership you take, the more power you have to change it. So intentionality, ownership, courage, courage is this massive one. And I'll tell you what I remember as I was leading the whole man project, especially in the early years that I was leading it, I had a lot of guys asking me out to lunch and I would say yes every single time. Some guys I'd be like, okay, well, maybe in a couple months because I'm pretty busy. Anyways, I had lunch with this one guy and he talked the entire time and he didn't even really tell me about himself. He just kind of like preached about his ideas and like things he thought about God, and I remember thinking this is awful, I don't want to do this again. And then he said at the end of the lunch hey, this was great, let's do it again. And I said, yeah, totally. And then, as I normally did, my passivity is kind of showing up there. I get to small group and my buddy Joe says of showing up there. I get to small group and my buddy Joe says I tell this story. And oh, no, no, no, no, sorry.

Speaker 1:

Six months goes by and I told myself I'm never doing that again with that guy. Six months goes by and he goes hey, let's get something on the calendar, I want to do lunch again. I was like, yeah, totally. I got to, like I'm pretty busy, I'll get back to you. And I realized, oh, I'm being passive here and I've done a lot of work up to this point. But so I confessed to my small group hey, I just gave this guy a passive answer. I don't ever want to do lunch with him again, and here's why. And so my buddy Joe said he's like man, you're like a dirty napkin. You just let people pick you up, wipe their mouth off and drop you back down on the table and then move on. You're just letting all these people walk all over you. I'm like, oh, why'd you have to put it that way? He goes, bro, here's your homework, and Joe had permission in my life to do this. And he said you have to call him. Tell him you will not have lunch with him and tell him why.

Speaker 2:

What does that look like in love?

Speaker 1:

Well, that's my rationalization for why I said there's no way I could do that was because, no, that would be so unloving. And he goes bro, you're probably not the only person that he's done that to, where he takes up the entire space and doesn't leave any room for anyone else. This will probably be good for him to hear that. So I'm like, oh, but I don't want to hurt his feelings. He goes. I think this is actually you just avoiding it, um, having a hard conversation and giving a guy really good feedback. So I, uh, I took out my phone. I said, hey, can we chat? I texted the guy immediately. He finally, at the next day, he's like, yeah, let, um, I'm available now. So I like literally dialed his phone number without hesitation because I had to. This is the courage piece I had to just like.

Speaker 1:

This was terrifying, terrifying, and I had lots of reasons why this was not a good idea. So he answered and I said, hey, when I said yes, we'd get lunch again, I lied. I don't actually want to get lunch, I'm not going to be available to do that. But the reason is because the last time we had lunch, you talked the entire time and you didn't talk about yourself, even to help me get to know you. You just talked about your ideas and different things like that, and I just don't want to do that again. I'd be willing to have lunch in the future if you asked somebody else out to lunch and talked 50% or less, and then they told me how it went and it went good and I had a little more leeway in this guy's life because I was one of his leaders, and so I was terrified, I was barely breathing and he goes. Bro, thank you so much for telling me. How am I supposed to get better if nobody tells me this?

Speaker 2:

kind of stuff.

Speaker 1:

And I almost cried in that moment of relief that I wasn't going to have a guy walking around who hated me and it was just this defining moment both for me and for him. It took a ton of courage to have that hard conversation and to find out that the things that I've been avoiding and rationalizing away, I've actually probably been robbing a good number of people. There is a way I could have done that like a jackass, and I was intentional to say objective facts and then to share. I don't want to do this and I'm not going to go out to lunch with you, but it required that of me because my tendency is not to be straight up with the truth. There are people who have a tendency, who need to learn more tact, but that wasn't the case for me. I needed to learn to speak some truth.

Speaker 2:

I had to turn up the truth, turn down the tack and turn up the truth.

Speaker 1:

So here, if you think about this in the realm of addiction, this is humongous because this is how we stay stuck. I see, the biggest passivity, say, with any guy who's struggling with porn, is they're not willing to make an uncomfortable change in their life. So I act out every time I go, I act out once a week, and it's always late at night while I'm on my phone laying in bed. Okay, because you know that and you have decided not to take any action around changing your normal of staying on your phone late at night in your bed. That's passivity. Passivity, literally just going hey, this is an obvious change that I need to make. But I'm also I use my phone as my alarm clock. That's an excuse. Okay, great, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Buy an alarm clock? Okay, I guess I can do that.

Speaker 1:

But sometimes I and like we have excuse after excuse to go hey, do you want to make uncomfortable change so that you can have the life that you've always wanted? Yes, I do. Okay, let's get really uncomfortable, then, and it takes a ton of courage to do that. And then the last one is engagement, and I would say anytime that you find yourself disengaging from the present or engaging in fantasy. And fantasy doesn't have to be sexual, it can literally just be.

Speaker 2:

I was gonna say as a seven, any kind of trip or future party is my like. I would get like if you've planned a vacation on a vacation while you're on vacation disengaged from your vacation, if you lost some of your presentness yeah, and again, these are all just strategies to like.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I'm uh, I would imagine for you part of the strategy for one of those parts of you would be I don't know If this feels good.

Speaker 2:

I don't want it to end. How can I know that I can do it again? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

How can I secure a happy and exciting future for myself right now? So don't look at any of these areas with shame. And also, if you find yourself recognizing by listening to this, recognizing all the passivity in your spouse, you're being passive right now. So don't like anytime that you start assigning passivity to other people. You're already on the losing track to creating or seeing any positive change. You actually have to. If this is resonating at all and you see it in other people, the reason you see it in them is because it's in you too. So it's because you recognize it.

Speaker 2:

That's so good. Before we end I'd love to pray. Do you have anything else you wanted to add?

Speaker 1:

Nope, I think that just about covers it Okay.

Speaker 2:

I could just feel, if you're listening to this, if you could just close your eyes as long as you're not driving, I just could feel potentially anxiousness arising or shame, even though we're saying, don't feel shame at how you wish you'd shown up differently, or patterns you've seen, or accidental, like wow, I've been blame shifting for a while, like shifting it back on someone else or areas that you want. You're like yep, passivity has been growing there and feel like kind of anxious about taking action. I just want to release one. Shame is unhelpful. If you can get curious and look at it like a strategy, but an unhelpful strategy you've been using, then you can dismiss it or ask for a better upgrade, for solution, for sorry, upgrade for a strategy, rather than feeling like putting contempt on a already part of you that needs healing. That's unhelpful. It's like adding salt to the wound when you add shame to an area, that view that needs healing. Um, but then to just grace, I just pray for grace, to go after a little bit to better.

Speaker 2:

I actually specifically felt like the Lord is saying some of you don't know how like what your first step out is, like you feel either so deep in a hole or so trapped in a corner or so, stuck in a pattern that you don't know what the first step out is, and I just felt like the Lord was saying that there are solutions for strategies that he has for you. So I just release divine, honestly creative, offensively small first steps, whether that's sending a basic text of miss you could we get lunch. Or putting your shoes you know, getting your tennis shoes and putting them by the front door, or whatever it is. I just feel like it's easier than you think, that he actually wants to support you and help you and he's like, if you, the Holy Spirit, if you invite him in, he has creative strategy. That is easier than you think.

Speaker 2:

I think the beautiful part of us doing this as Christians is there's actually grace available to us. It is not by self-control or willpower alone. There's actually like a grace when we partner and co-labor with him. So I just remind you and invite grace in this area that you could actually get unstuck through little bits of better. At the pace of grace yeah, anything else, babe. At the pace of grace yeah, anything else babe.

Speaker 1:

No, that's it.

Speaker 2:

Amen, and I love you Aaron.