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Sober Vibes Podcast
Courtney Andersen hosts the Sober Vibes podcat. A woman who decided to end her decade long love affair with alcohol in 2012 at 29 years old. She chose to live openly as a recovering alcoholic with honesty and humor while figuring it out one day at a time.This space and community will bring you weekly episodes of Courtney's experience and help as well as interviews from incredible souls who are living a life without drugs and alcohol. Courtney's sister Kimberly Elledge who also is a recovering alcoholic and addict will join her in open conversations. The sisters will bring you their insights on this disease, family dynamics, and how they have healed — a show within a show.This podcast is here to inspire, empower, uplift, and bring you some laughter along the way in your journey.
Sober Vibes Podcast
LOTE: Narcissism and the Red Flags, Part 1
Episode 197:LOTE: Narcissism and the Red Flags, Part 1
In episode 197 of the Sober Vibes podcast, it's LOTE week, which means Courtney Andersen and Kim Elledge are here with a new episode of the Livin on the El-ledge series. The Sisters discuss Narcissism in this two-part series.
Part One is recognizing red flags.
What you will learn in this episode:
- Dive into the world of narcissism
- Red Flags of Narcissism
- Kim's experience in a relationship with one
- Trauma Bonding
- Love Bombing
- Gaslighting
- Reactive Abuse
This episode is not medical advice. Kim and Courtney aim to empower you with knowledge and support, encouraging awareness and setting healthy boundaries on this often challenging path to emotional freedom.
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This is Courtney. This is Kimberly. You are listening to the show within the show. Living on the L-Edge.
Speaker 2:Come live with us. We're talking about the road to recovery and sobriety and how to vibe and maintain a happy and healthy lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Hey, it is L-O-T-E week and you are listening to episode 197. Kim, it's been a minute since we've been on the ones and twos.
Speaker 2:It has been a minute. It has been.
Speaker 1:We were well, I was on again, off again, sick all of September with the dictator and a husband on again, off, again sick, and then I think you got sick when we were supposed to record it just didn't work out.
Speaker 2:It didn't work out, and that's okay, because it's like life, it'd be transparent about it. No, my insomnia, I hadn't slept. No, that's what it was, I hadn't slept. If you guys are first-time listeners, l-o-t-e stands for living on the L-edge, the L-edge sisters here Kimberly Ann Elledge and Courtney Michelle L edge Anderson. Now she's a married woman, a kept woman, the old ball and chain the old ball and chain.
Speaker 1:So I mean, well, we do have to real quick, Cause my sister and I usually like to talk about a pop culture. We are we're not even gonna we're not even gonna get a touch on the diddler, but we are going to touch on that If you have not watched yet, because Kim and I have become obsessed where, even now, kim has a new funeral song she wants me to play for the intro and outro, called Girl, I'm Gonna Miss you by Milli Vanilli. But if you have not watched yet on Netflix, the Menendez, you must Dude, simply because and I think I said this in a couple solo episodes ago no, I said it on my newsletter, simply because the acting is acted.
Speaker 1:Those two guys, I really hope they win all the awards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everything, Put them up for everything. That actor who played Lyle that was incredible acting.
Speaker 1:I loved him, it was, and then even, too, I finished last night. Finally, the Netflix has a new docu-movie and it's Lyle and Eric talking from prison, kim, so you got to watch that this weekend, shit. And so they're talking, and I swear to God because now, seeing this, obviously the conversation has changed around boys being sexually abused and I I feel like they're going to get out of prison.
Speaker 2:I mean, it wasn't on my bingo card, but I'm here for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because even to watching this documentary that they did, and even the press, the first prosecutor of the first case in this documentary you're going to get a little bit. We're only doing this because there's a TikTok movement, because TikTokers are talking about this, so that's the only reason why we're doing this documentary. She was like but they murdered their parents, they need to be in jail. But when you see the second case from this point of view, this documentary, they just did not get a fair trial because of fucking OJ.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the fucking juice was worse.
Speaker 1:Goddamn, OJ yeah because he got off. So that counting and that judge was looking for a win.
Speaker 2:Yep, they sure were. So I mean they did kill their parents very violently. But those wild times, I don't know if the allegations of the abuse were true. I mean, were they wrong. I don't know. That's like a moral question you have to ask yourself. I feel very strongly in my convictions with any sexual abuse. That's an eye for an eye man. That's sick shit. You ruin people's lives and the fallout from it and the trauma and it's just maniacal and demonic. So fuck them.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I'm saying. Fuck you. What was the dad's name? Jose, Was it Jose? Yeah?
Speaker 2:Jose.
Speaker 1:Menendez, listen. There was a neurologist I had on this podcast Great, great, great episode on how alcohol affects the brain and he even said it as a neurologist I have seen the scans of sexual abuse victims. He said I would never let them stay the night or I would never let my children stay the night at like friend's house. This was just in conversation Of the victims or of the predators predators.
Speaker 1:No, he was just saying in general, he, because he has seen scans of brains of sexual abuse survivors and it I mean it fucks with you is my brain on a scan.
Speaker 2:Look, fucked up, courtney, it probably does?
Speaker 1:it probably does. Does it explains a lot? Well, I mean think, of all that trauma. So this is what I'm saying and this is why I believe Eric and Lyle, because the cousin backed up the story. The cousin said that Lyle told her at eight their parents that there was a letter found. It was one of the brothers writing another cousin and explaining to the cousin. This is still happening. I'm losing my mind and I believe that cousin passed away, but the mom found the letter and it's handed it in. That's the new evidence that they have. Oh, I just think that their time has been served. They've served their time, yeah, like 30 years, right, 32 years, yeah, but Kim, then they were separate and then Kim and I were crying.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, there's an ending scene I don't want to do a spoiler, but spoiler alert that that ryan murphy is a real sick son of a bitch but he's getting all types of backlash for this netflix show. But yeah, but that's, he got it for dom or two, yeah. But I say bravo, dude. Like whatever, it just puts a different perspective and for entertainment purposes One just shows a different side, whatever.
Speaker 2:But at the end the brothers go through all of the bullshit and being in jail and then they finally get sentenced. And if you've never been locked out, locked up, it's what you call in county, it's a ride out. So they got their ride out and that's when you go from county to prison to go serve your time. So the Menendez brothers are on the ride out, but they're in two separate vans and they think that they're going together to the same prison. And then there's an intersection and that goddamn Milli Vanilli song is playing and they don't understand what's happening. And it's just so sad, because I could not picture being separated from Courtney like that and they didn't know. So Eric was going to Folsom and then that lunatic Lyle was going somewhere else, and just the song placement and everything. Ryan Murphy, you bastard.
Speaker 1:You had me balling. Yeah, it was a cinematic gold. So then Kim calls me and she's I just couldn't picture it if we were separated. So they were separated for 21 years and that was the whole thing and which you'll see on this new documentary on Netflix. They did the write out after an awkward Barbara Walters interview. So just watch the Netflix one this weekend and Kim and I you might be being like like man, these bitches really love some, some killers, just these two just yeah, just these two.
Speaker 2:and it was really the actors who just sold me on it because that that shit was. It was a little like comedic in there too. Just so, yeah, it was, it was fun to watch. I mean, my, I watched the whole thing all night. I ended it at 7 am and called my sister Are you okay? I was like, yeah, I'm fine, I'm just, I haven't slept and insomnia slay and I just finished that show on Netflix Must watch, Must watch.
Speaker 1:So yeah, if you haven't watched it, watch it. And if you have watched it and you want to free the Menendee, slip into our DMs and let us know. All I'm saying is, in all honesty, you look at that case again and everybody is an internet sleuth and has an opinion, and just mine. I'm not condoning, we're not condoning them shooting their parents, that, that Cruz, we're not condoning that.
Speaker 2:We're not condoning murder.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but they've served their time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, freedom in and dies.
Speaker 1:Yes, so this is going to be a two-part episode today, okay, so we'll come back next week with part two. So a sister and I have been dropping a lot about narcissist and this is not a term that we have used because it's a real buzzword nowadays, but if you have really experienced a true blue narcissist, it's the most wildest shit you will ever experience in your life. Now, Kim and I are not therapists, clearly, but my sister has had a lot of experience and education when it comes to the narcissism or the narcissist. So I just want to again, this is like not medical advice, this is just our perspective, and Kim knows a lot of shit and I've been telling her like for the last year.
Speaker 1:I'm like, Kim, you really need to be out there helping women with overcoming narcissistic abuse. Right, Because it's a thing that you get stuck in and I mean, I think from still from time to time you're like, oh shit. And recently we're not going to name names, sister, but recently I just fucking had had it with one narcissist where I just I had to push back and he was really proud of me for that. Yeah, so in part one we're going to do like a couple red flags of a narcissist, how to spot them, and then in part two we will explain on what to do and also how to overcome that abuse, because it's a mindfuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how to heal and move on, because it's definitely a process and it's not for the weak man.
Speaker 1:That was an Olympic sport, right? So, kim, what would be? How would you spot a narcissist? What are some red flags you got?
Speaker 2:Well, the thing about the there's different kinds of narcissists, um, so, to spot a narcissist in my case I mean these people, these personality types are. They're predators. So typically narcissists prey on high value people, and it's not just men who are narcissists, there's women narcissists out there. In my case, the narcissist that I dealt with was a man and who I was in a relationship with for five years. So I had was healing, just got out of jail, I was on parole, just like really getting my feet from under me, and I had I was swiping on Tinder and had yeah, had met someone and started chatting and then, right off the rip, it's like it was like very like intense and I wasn't really healed myself. I was like sensitive. I was just getting into like recovery and very raw. And this person who I met, he was sober and he was in the program and then found out that I was sober but I was under a year sober. So when you're in the program, you're not really supposed to date within a year.
Speaker 1:So I got and let me just say this whether you're in the program or you're not, that first year of fucking sobriety is a person's most vulnerable, one of their most vulnerable states of life. We've all been there. You say you've never drinking again and then you drink. But would you still drink if those closest to you knew you need something to make you pause before taking that first sip? You need sober link. Somber link devices have built-in facial recognition and tamper sensors and send instant results to those closest to you, making it an incredible accountability tool. You know me, I love accountability. Devices are also portable and tests are always scheduled, never random, allowing you to test from anywhere, but still on your own time. Maybe you need Soberlink to save your marriage. Maybe you need it to give to your ex-husband for when he has the kids, so you can test him, so he can hold himself accountable. Or perhaps you just need something to keep you on track. Whatever the case may be, if you're in early recovery from alcoholism, this tool is a must and by far one of my most favorite recommendation. I've witnessed people benefit from Soberlink and I want you to be the next. Visit wwwsoberlinkcom forward slash sober dash vibes to sign up and receive $50 off your device. You have to use the link so you can also visit the link in the show notes under Sober Link and it will take you directly to your website and the $50 will be applied at checkout.
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Speaker 2:Yeah, I was like a little baby. So you know and I'm only talking about the program because this was my reality at the time no shade against the program, we're not even going to go there. This is just what was happening. So I got 13 steps by a member of the program and at first, very intense, the love bombing. Like all of the all of the compliments, all of the praise, all of the glory which is which for me, that was like hit a dope in me. It was kind of like a drug because I was like, oh shit, cause I wasn't really feeling the best about myself. I was like at rock clawing out of rock bottom. I was doing good, but I was just like I. It was not fun times for me. So the love bombing, like two months of intense love bombing, hanging out saying all of the right things. Now that I look back on it, my personality was definitely getting mirrored back to me. So it's like all of my interests and likes was his, like, he was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's called mirroring when they just mirror back your personality. So it's wow, this person's really cool, when in actuality you're the really cool one, because they're just giving back to you what you are. So it's a term.
Speaker 1:It's a term with narcissism that also could be like when you become a kid, when a person becomes a chameleon too, with whoever they're around. Oh okay, I didn't about that. I didn't know. That was straight. This makes sense. Continue, yeah.
Speaker 2:So there was a lot of mirroring and then so that was the love bombing stage. And then toward we got out like the love bombing and then he wanted to see my boundaries and what they were and how far he could push me. So early on I was talking to my best friend and talking to Courtney, I was like there's something off Like my, just my, I don't know my spirit guides or something. But I was like so in, everything was feeling good. Obviously I'm a sexual creature. So the sex was amazing, like we were just like in it. I was having fun. The fact that he didn't drink was fucking rad or didn't do drugs. So I was like, all right, dude, this is it Like I have found my person. So and then the conditioning started. So they condition you to drink. Have you make things acceptable? So what's usually not acceptable to you in like normal life, like people lying, people not showing up, saying they're going to do something, people disappearing, ghosting and then coming back. So a little bit of that was happening. And I remember the first time where he broke plans and he would start in the day to monopolize my time all day. So I didn't make plans with anybody else, I didn't. So that was going on and he always came through right in the morning, right as soon as he woke up. I'll see you later tonight. So I was working and I would like bust ass to get out of work and I was working at the airport at the time for bartending inside the Delta terminal. So I would bust ass and haul ass to get back home and then shower and get ready and just it was like very exhausting. So he had his whole day free and then I was like scrambling at night to like get ready for him. In this time he was which I didn't know at the time, but I was a new source of supply for him, so he was setting me up to leave his old source of supply and off to the races we went. So one night I stuck up for myself. There was a boundary, because he ghosted me Like I'm sitting there, had plans and he has nowhere to be found, which I thought was completely rude. And then me, the person that I am, I'm worried, thinking something's okay, is everything okay? But I didn't want to be like, cause we weren't really official, but I just found it like unacceptable. So I stuck up for myself and my sister knows I'm great with words and it completely offended him. So that was the first narcissistic injury. So me sticking up for myself. He didn't talk to me for a few days and it's that, yeah, I was being, I was being punished and conditioned. So he came back a few days later and was like telling me he was sleeping and he doesn't appreciate not being trusted he was. So I was being gaslit and I was like I threw something in about his kid, whatever, and that is sleep patterns, just like all the was. So I was being gaslit and I was like I threw something in about his kid, whatever, and that is sleep patterns, just like all the things. So I was just like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:So that kind of three days not talking to someone after they're in your mix, like monopolizing all of your time, all of your texts, just love bombing you, flooding with all these emotions. So then when it got stripped away for three days, it like throws you into a tailspin. So then it's well, I don't ever want that to happen again. So I'm not really going to question him and I didn't know that this manipulation tactic was happening because I was like in it, also being an addict. When he finally got ahold of me that dopamine hit, I was like, oh phew, thank God, because it's just. I just wasn't strong enough to understand what was going on. So we went from the love bombing to the conditioning. All that comes like gaslighting lying. He was juggling some other sources of supply I had asked about other women Right, but explain a source of supply.
Speaker 2:So a source of supply to a narcissist is their energy vampires. So narcissists can use their kids as supply. They can use their coworkers as supply. So it's just, they have a very grandiose perception of themselves and it's all about them. They do not give a fuck less about anything. You could be sick and dying, and if it takes away from them, like they just don't have any, it's an illness. They have no empathy and they're not able to step outside of themselves and their own way of thinking.
Speaker 2:So for this person, supply was women and I truly believe that in our system it comes from trauma and you can go either two ways. When you are a child of trauma and are raised in an abusive household, as he was, so in the love bombing phase also, there was a lot of trauma bonding going on. So he would tell me some of his traumas half of them now, like I know, were lies didn't believe, and I was so. Half of them now, like I know, were lies didn't believe and I was so closed off at the time that I didn't give it all the information up right away. So that intrigued him, because I would always remember him saying you're really hard to read, you're very interesting and now I think back on it, when he would like ask me things like even the way like his eyes look, like he was like feeding off of figuring out ways where he could use my trauma against me. But both of us have come from a trauma and abusive household so we like trauma bonded over that and I believe that narcissism.
Speaker 2:You can either go two ways when you experience trauma. You can go narcissist route or empath route. Both of them are not healthy. Like being an empath, it's like when people say that, it's like it's cool and all you feel, all the feelings. But a lot of things come with being an empath. It's like codependency, people pleasing, not taking care of yourself, putting other people's needs instead of your own because you just feel so. It's just like you're so raw. So like those which I found and I did a lot of research I had to figure out what I was dealing with, because it just wasn't right.
Speaker 1:So would you say that then, like some the top, like red flags for sure, the love bombing, the mirroring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the love bombing, because like compliments are cool, but when it's like for me now, a red flag for a person like the overly love bombing and just like how they move, if like their words don't, because I listen. So if you listen and pay attention you can catch them and lies, you know.
Speaker 1:Seriously, sister, sissy is resorting back to her Studio 54 weirdo days, but without the drugs, mm-hmm, because even something came up the other day and she was like Courtney. I've been watching that bitch move for months.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I sit back and I watch people now. Because if you sit back and if you just shut the fuck up and don't give people all of the information right away and especially if they have a personality disorder they will reveal themselves. So, just like tread when you meet new people, like tread lightly, don't give away all the information, just sit back and if someone's truly healthy and wants to get to know you, it doesn't need to be in a day and a night. Yeah, I remember the first time we slept with each other. He asked and actually that was the first fucking red flag. He was like obviously we didn't use protection and he was like don't he's someday, I'm sure? Like don't you want to have my baby? And I looked at him and I go absolutely not. Like gross, why would even say that? I don't even fucking really know. I don't know you Right? And he was like no, no, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. But he was used to women being like yes, for me. I was like what is happening? That is strange, and I didn't have kids, so that to me also turned me off. I was like yeah, that was weird, but I moved past it. So that was a red flag Just saying weird shit to try to get me to be like fall in love, like hearts in my eyes. So it took a few.
Speaker 2:It took a few months for him and but he also liked the challenge and it made him have to. I think me he like really honed in on his skills a little bit because he had to like really use them. He had to actually do some work, being a piece of shit. So we went love bombing the conditioning and all of the things. So then he just started kind of moving a little bit funny. He used his social media as a source of supply. So we went on like our first like little getaway and obviously I paid because that's just what I do. So we went to his bed and breakfast and we're hanging out, whatever. But one of the days like it wasn't really that fun because he slept like one of the days the whole time and was just like not engaged because it didn't really interest him so it wasn't about him. So he definitely conditioned me on that weekend to knowing that if he wasn't interested he's just going to sleep and turn it off.
Speaker 2:And I don't know if you've ever been with a narcissist, but these motherfuckers sleep like babies, like insane. I watched this, they do. I watched this guy for fucking years. Just do the most maniacal shit and get caught and I would be fucking devastated and he would just, you know, not, not speak. We'd be having conversation and just sit there and give me the silent treatment and the silent treatment, and they just don't, don't talk. And then it gets so frustrating that and it's a form of manipulation it gets so frustrating that you end up going into what's called reactive abuse. So you're so frustrated that finally you're pushed to the point of no return that you just fucking lose it. And then he would stare me dead in my eyes and be like I did not peg you for someone who was crazy and I, and then roll over and go to sleep, yeah, and it would be so frustrating that I would like I literally at some point thought that I was losing my mind, yeah. And so there's lots of manipulation tactics the silent treatment there, the gaslighting, lying, ghosting, the push and pull. They also start to manipulate you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, breadcrumbs, like he would if I I got manum or something and he would ghost, and then he'd throw a little bit of breadcrumbs my way. He'd pop up. It was off and on for a while and we'd be serious and then not. He'd do some fuck shit. I'd put down my boundaries when he would come back around because they circled the block and just go from one supply to the next and just triangulate supply. So you got your and then supply comes in it's your top tier supply, your second tier supply, your third supply. So I was his main for a lot of years and being the main, I've heard bitches like on podcasts and stuff stunts that I'm the main and it's. That is the worst place to be, because they are the meanest to their main supply. The meanest.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like the main supply is really just high value, everybody. They just they're great people but highly intelligent, smart, empathetic, usually very good, looking like good people so and add value, can walk in a room, could talk to anyone. You know that's. They make the narcissist look good. So they like to bring her around because it's wow, how did you catch this one? She's got everything going on.
Speaker 2:I can remember him taking me to his parents and me having a conversation with his parents and them looking at Edward and be like oh, she's smart. Because I was like going toe to toe with his dickhead dad and who's also like a narcissist and boomer and very sexist, and so I was like I would stand my ground, like very respectfully, like I'm. They have no idea how I was raised and who my parents are, so I'm well versed, like I can, I can talk the talk. So I made him look very good and it was a wild ride and he would use social media as a form of supply. So we went on that trip and we took like our first picture together and then he like let me know he's like I don't do social media. And I'm like what do you mean? You don't do social media. I'm just saying don't post me. My ex-girlfriend she was crazy, she used to post all the time and it just like really gave me anxiety and turned me off. So he's like lying to me and conditioning me and trying to like peg his ex-girlfriend as crazy and so I'm like, oh okay, well, that's his boundary. But I'm like when you're a girl and in a relationship, these days you can connect one and two and how people are tagged and figured out. So then I found myself like on the socials trying to be Inspector Gadget and like how embarrassing, what a waste of time. But I would catch him and shit on the internet and then he would just lie to me and tell me I'm crazy, more gaslighting and I would constantly just tell this man about himself. So that narcissistic injury, the punishments would be worse and worse and worse every time.
Speaker 2:And he had narcissists have a lot of flying monkeys. It's a term so they use. They'll spin a narrative about how horrible their supply is. So when shit hits the fan, they can just spin it as they're crazy, they're lower class, they don't know what time. So this person had his mother as a flying monkey.
Speaker 2:She would enable all of his shit and for me she was very offensive. I told her I was like you are not a girl's girl, like how about breaking some generational trauma? I know you're an abuse kept house woman and that's cool, I understand it and I my heart breaks for you. But you see what your son's out here doing time and time again to different women. Like why you, you, don't give any of us a heads up, blink twice, let us know what we're dealing with. Instead, you like enable and all this shit. So I have had some conversations with the parents, but the parents were like they liked me. They went out I was living in Dearborn at the time and he got me on the hook right away Cause I was like looking for condos, cause I was going to move out of my, my house. So I was like I need to to move Cause I had a roommate situation whatever. That wasn't cool, which was weird, cause she had just met a person, so she was also dealing with a true narcissist, she really yeah.
Speaker 2:So it was just like very toxic. So his he was like don't, don't get something like. You're it for me, I want to, I want you to move in with me. He went and told his parents that he found the one. So his fucking dipshit parents bought him a house and I went to the signing and his parents even like I can picture you guys living here, you're going to have a great life, yada, yada, yada. So all of that was happening More love, bombing. And then he would pull away. It was very, very confusing. He would come over with there'd be like glitter on his face or he'd like smell like perfume, and then I'd say something and he'd be like I'm a, I'm a barber, one of my clients was gay Like he would make stuff up and I'm like, okay, okay.
Speaker 1:But this whole time, but this whole time starting within a period of time, you just, you just knew, you knew some shit was off.
Speaker 2:I know and I'm smart and I would say, but it was very like when you get that push pull and that dopamine hit. But it was very like when you get that push pull and that dopamine hit like I say, narcissism abuse it's like coming off of heroin when you like. When you, when that ghosting period happens from them, it's you go through withdrawals, so when they come back it's like the same receptors and stuff in your brain. It's literally like taking drugs and then coming off of drugs and me being an addict and having an addictive personality. This was all very familiar. So I kept fighting, I kept going for it because I just thought it was true love, like we had this connection, this and that, and it was it. For me it was rad.
Speaker 1:It was rad, yeah. So then we're going to end it on this one. So then he and I'm just going to explain this one so then he moves my sister into this house and then, within a period of three days, he kicks her out. Yeah, why what? We're going to end there. Okay, we're going to end there and we're going to come back next week with part two. Thank you so much for listening and keep on trucking. Keep on trucking.