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Sober Vibes Podcast
Welcome to Sober Vibes, where sobriety meets empowerment! Hosted by sober coach, author, and mom Courtney Andersen—who’s been thriving in her alcohol-free life since 8/18/2012—this podcast is your go-to space for real talk, proven strategies, and inspiring stories from women who are redefining what it means to live without alcohol.
Each week, Courtney dives deep into the topics that matter most—from conquering cravings and navigating social settings to rebuilding confidence and finding joy in sobriety. Whether you’re newly sober, in long-term recovery, or simply curious about alcohol-free living, Sober Vibes delivers the support, insights, resources, and encouragement you need.
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Sober Vibes Podcast
Healing as an Adult Child of Alcoholics w/ Margy Schaller
Episode 224: Healing as an Adult Child of Alcoholics w/ Margy Schaller
In episode 224 of the Sober Vibes podcast, Courtney Andersen welcomes Margy Schaller to the show, and they talk about healing as an Adult Child of Alcoholics, also known as ACA. Margy shares her story of addiction and recovery and how she started to live loud and proud in her sobriety after 18 years of sober living.
Margy Schaller is the Co-Founder of Sober Life Rocks, a community of people who choose not to drink, are sober-ish, sober curious, and sober wingmen. Their mission is to create spaces and initiate conversations that challenge the prevailing drinking culture, offering support to a wide range of individuals including salespeople, speakers, consultants, and other successful businesspeople.
What you will learn in this episode:
- After 20 years of sobriety, Margie discusses hiding her recovery for 18.5 years due to professional pressure.
- The Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACA) program helped Margie recognize how childhood experiences shaped her adult behavior.
- Common traits in adult children of alcoholics include hypervigilance, perfectionism, and the compulsion to "fix" others.
- Strategies for sober parents to have honest conversations with their children about alcohol
- Three powerful tips to begin healing: explore ACA literature, understand survival behaviors, and practice self-forgiveness
Thank you for listening!
Connect with Margy:
Resources mentioned:
Amplify Sober Voices Event, Use code Courtney at checkout to save $29
Adult Children of Alcoholics Book
Ready to thrive in your alcohol-free life? Sober Vibes: A Guide to Thriving in Your First Three Months Without Alcohol is your step-by-step guide to navigating early sobriety with confidence.
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Connect w/ Courtney:
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Hey, welcome back to the Sober Vibes podcast. I am your host and sober coach, courtney Anderson. I'm also your go-to guide with living a kick-ass life without alcohol. You are listening to episode 224 of the Sober Vibes podcast. You are listening to episode 224 of the Sober Vibes podcast, and today's episode is all about working through adult children of alcoholics.
Courtney Andersen :I loved this conversation and, even though the topic is so deep, it's just one of those conversations that needed to be had, because I feel like in the sober space, that there is not enough conversations about being an adult child of an alcoholic. Okay, if you don't like the word alcoholic, let's go for the spectrum of alcohol use disorder, because when there is that emotional dependency on alcohol and you fall in line of the spectrum, there are periods where children are seeing this. So this is just an important conversation to be had and also to help you even. Furthermore, of when you get sober and live an alcohol-free life. What is that conversation going to look like with your kids? Because at any moment, a parent has the power to course correct things right and start changing actions and start leading by example and leading a new path in their family foundation. I truly do believe that, even if your kids are older, that there can be a lot of healing with changed behavior and conversations that you can have with them.
Courtney Andersen :So my guest today is the amazing Margie Schaller, and she is the co-founder of Sober Life Rocks, which is a community of people who choose not to drink, who are sober, sober, curious, and their mission is to celebrate spaces and initiate conversations that challenge the prevailing drinking culture. They offer support in a wide range of individuals, including salespeople, speakers, consultants and other successful business people. I will put all of that information in the show notes below. Okay, so Margie's going to share her story and I also, which I will link below. I had her partner, who is the other co-founder of Sober Life Rocks, on this podcast. I believe it was last year, last season, laura and I will put that episode so you can listen to them both.
Courtney Andersen :I really enjoyed it. Maybe it was earlier this year. I really enjoyed that conversation because, again, they are all about making inclusive spaces, especially for the conferences. Right, because a lot of people who have to go to conferences and business events you know that space is all. Majority of it all is about whining and dining customers and then going to these conferences and just getting drunk as a skunk. Margie shares her story which is an amazing story Also, too how she really. She was in the closet with her sobriety for many years, and then you know how freeing it was for her to finally start talking about it Also, too.
Courtney Andersen :On that note, I want to announce and we talk about it in this episode, but I want to share with you that I'm thrilled to share that I'm speaking at Amplify Sober Voices, which is a one-day conference happening in Orlando, florida, on January 15th 2026. This event is designed for sober influencers, creators and advocates who want to connect, grow and amplify their impact. It's all about building a supportive, alcohol-free community where our voices and stories are seen, heard and celebrated. So if you are looking to expand your reach or get inspired or simply be surrounded by others on a similar path, I would love to see you there. You can learn more and grab your ticket at amplifysoberliferockscom and you can also use the code COURTNEY in all caps for $29 off of your ticket. This one-day conference is in. I think it's a three-day conference two to three-day conference hosted for PodFest. Okay. So again, that's down in Orlando January 15th, and they are just now starting.
Courtney Andersen :If you're listening to this episode in real time. They are now just starting to announce their speakers. I was the first speaker to be announced, super stoked to be there, you guys, so I would love to see you there. All of the information will be in the show notes below. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out and ask, and I hope to see you in sunny Orlando Florida. Hope you enjoy this episode. Keep on trucking and kicking ass out there. Hey, margie, welcome to the Sober Vibes podcast. I'm very happy to have you here today.
Margy Schaller:Thank you. I cannot tell you how excited I am to be here with you.
Courtney Andersen :I know Last time when we talked on your podcast, I really enjoyed our conversation, so I do want to start off by you've been sober now 20 years 20 years just happened in. February. Yeah, okay, congratulations, but I want you to share this part, because you said that you hid for 18 and a half years. So what do you mean by that?
Margy Schaller:20 years ago, the stigma was real.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah.
Margy Schaller:And I was petrified that anybody in my outside life would find out. I got sober in it, petrified that anybody in my outside life would find out I got sober in it, and so I even remember scurrying behind the parking lot to get into the building where the AA meetings were, because I didn't want anybody to see me on the street. But I made the decision that I wasn't going to tell anybody in my professional life. I just didn't feel like they would embrace that and it caused a lot of challenges for me because my job was literally to go and wine and dine potential new speakers or consultants for my company. So I was on the road all the time.
Margy Schaller:You go to these work happy hours and you go take people out to dinners and it was really awkward. I remember being handed a wine list as the host of a dinner and and this was a directory of my best friends yeah right. And yet I have to sit there at the time I think I was maybe six months sober and say I don't really know what the best thing is. Can somebody else help? Because I just felt so awkward. Yeah right, the waiter coming by and saying here, would you like to taste it? No, I'm good, I'm just going to stick with my club soda and a line. It was tough.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, I was going to say you, probably, you probably. Even. It wouldn't surprise me I don't know if you did do this, but especially too, because the openness about this really hasn't come down until the last. I would specifically say more like five to eight years. Right, I was going to say about five years. Yeah, Like the pandemic, even though this has been talked about openly and even just the amount of time of me being in this space it's. But I don't. I like to give credit where credit is due and that people have been talking about this for a long time, right, either if you were loud and proud about that or if you know you had to do what you were doing into the meetings. But this has been for people who have said they've been sober out loud before this kind of starting on the last five, six years.
Margy Schaller:I always just want to give them credit because Mad props and the celebrities who have been bold enough and brave enough to talk about their journey and their mental health and the effects that it's had on them, like being vocal in such a public way, like has given people permission to sort of experiment with what it might be like to be open about their sober choices.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah yeah, because I'll tell you in the beginning, there for me, I would Google sober choices. Yeah, yeah, because I'll tell you in the beginning, there for me, I would Google sober celebrities. And then I like because at that time again, it wasn't like there was this huge following, but I would Google them and be like all right. Well, if this person can do this A, b and C right, or really kind of lean into the people who were more vocal about their struggles, it's like all right, then I can get through another day, right. If you think about musicians who are sober and that's man. You went out there and played in front of 50,000 people, right, and you didn't need drugs or alcohol to push you through. That that's inspiring. So when did you, though, when did you decide to free yourself when it came to then start being very vocal about your sobriety?
Margy Schaller:Yeah, so my co-founder, laura Nelson, and I knew of each other's sober choices. She actually got sober on TikTok, so I knew all about her and I told her we're in the same industry and so I had approached her after I saw her on TikTok and said, by the way, and I think at the time I was probably like 15 years sober and so she was probably in a handful of less than five people in my industry who knew I was sober. A year and a half ago we're at this women's entrepreneur conference and there was maybe 125 people there and they're in our industry, so we know them some better than others. And she was on this mind body health panel which, laura, is hysterical because that's like not her at all but she was invited to speak about how her sober choices had affected her life and her professional walk and in the middle of being asked a question or answering questions, she's. I'm just curious here in this room how many people here don't drink for whatever reason.
Margy Schaller:Well, in that moment, courtney, I had this decision to make and I'm like starting to raise my hand super slow and I'm looking around the room and do you know like 15% of the women in that room were doing the same thing. We didn't know that about each other. And I'm looking around shocked and I look up at Laura on the stage and she looks at me. We're like what just happened? Right, right. So we grabbed each other and went to lunch and we're like this has got to change. This is not okay. And I said at 18 and a half years sober, I can't put baby in the corner anymore, and so it's going to have to start with me being willing to be loud and proud about this amazing part of my life, this part of my life that has given me everything that I currently have, right.
Courtney Andersen :Do you feel, though, when you finally came out of the sober, closet right like when you came out about it and decided to be loud and proud, that there was a freedom in that for you?
Margy Schaller:talked about authenticity. I've always talked about transparency, but I didn't know how much of an effect that was having on my body and my psyche to have this part of my life that's been so essential Right that kept secret from the people who I interact with, quite frankly, the most.
Courtney Andersen :Right, right, exactly, and to in the process of when you get sober, it becomes something you start nurturing very much like a little baby, right, like it's something that you're just so proud of and you're proud of yourself for it. And it's like at some point like, yes, why do I have to keep this, keep having this be a secret when I'm so proud of it? Right? So I'm glad that you Let me tell you a little story about that, because this is an example of how it can be tough.
Margy Schaller:10 years ago, I was 10 years sober and I had the opportunity to. I'm a speaker coach and I had the opportunity to speak in front of a group of people at a conference for speakers and I just started my business and I was like so excited, this is my big shot to launch my business. And I was like so excited, this is my big shot to launch my business into this whole new group of people. And one of the things that I teach people is that if you're in front of a group that doesn't know you, it's really important to open with a story that kind of speaks to who you are and what you stand for. And so, after talking it through with my sponsor and a couple of friends, I made the decision 10 years sober, come on, I can talk about this.
Margy Schaller:So, I shared the story and I'm just going to really brief it down for this purposes. But I shared the story about how I grew up in an alcoholic household with a single mother and the chaos that obviously ensued. And I remember saying I vowed I would never be like her and by my 20s I was just like her Single mom, drinking, alcoholically. Chaos in my life. But the result of having that kind of upbringing and the result of having that kind of young adulthood was that I didn't have any adulting skills. I didn't know how to do anything and my only response to stress was to drink and my only response to celebrate was to drink and my only response to Wednesday was to drink. And no wonder that's what my life was.
Margy Schaller:But I was puzzled by how other people seem to be able to navigate things that I couldn't navigate. So I'm telling the story and so I say and then 10 years ago I finally got sober and these amazing women showed up in my life, women who taught me how to do life. They taught me how to put on my makeup, because I didn't know. They taught me how to dress more professionally, how to be a good employer, how to be a good employee, how to be a good mom, all the things that I. Just I didn't have these tools being raised and I can never repay those women and, quite frankly, they're not the sort of women who would want to be repaid. Best that I can do is to pay it forward and help other people become the best version of themselves.
Margy Schaller:Well, in that moment, from that stage, everybody was leaning in and the rest of the talk went fantastic and I literally had people at the end running up to me with their business card saying I want to hire you, I want to hire you. It was my dream come true. Until later that evening, two separate conversations with people who are very high up in that organization pulled me aside and said Margie, really good job with your talk, but you might not want to talk about that sober thing, my worst fear.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah.
Margy Schaller:Because of that, I never spoke of it again until eight and a half years later.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah Well, that's a shame. It's like a shame. It's a shame for those two higher ups where it's just this is connection, and this is what people want. Is that connection in that vulnerability?
Margy Schaller:And then what I will say to myself, to that self and to anybody else listening is my resolve and my self-confidence was so tender and scared that it took these. It just took two people saying this in a private way to get me off of my game. Yeah, but if I could speak to that person who was me 10 years ago, I would say it's okay, People can have their opinions, but you're beautiful for the fact that you're 10 years sober and beautiful for the fact that you've had the courage to say these things and carry on Right.
Courtney Andersen :People will have opinions about anything that I do Not. Everybody always has an opinion where it's just like all right, and a lot of people don't have the awareness on how to express an opinion in a correct way and PC way almost, because you can deliver that in a way where it's not so harsh. But some people are just assholes and they just don't have that awareness and that is okay and God bless them so well, that's what I wanted to chat with you today, on you working through adult children of alcoholics, and I just think that this is such a key conversation and you share your wisdom and your own healing journey, because that's one you have to go through for sure.
Margy Schaller:Yeah, so for me at around probably eight years seven, eight years sober I was doing all of the things in AA. I had the sponsor, I had the sponsors, I was speaking at speaker meetings, I was going to hospitals and institutions and speaking on panels. I was doing all of the things and I remember watching other people around me really coming to light and really that happy, joyous and free that everybody promises, and really that happy, joyous and free that everybody promises. And while my life was better because I didn't have all the chaos, I didn't feel that inside Something was still missing and I still felt this empty longing and ache for what I saw in other people and a friend of mine suggested well, maybe go check out. Al-anon Never really resonated with me. I'm willing to take suggestions.
Margy Schaller:So I went to this bookstore and I remember leafing through an Al-Anon book and going you know, not really me and next to the book on the same bookshelf was this other book about adult children. Well, having grown up with an alcoholic mother, I opened that up and I just started reading a couple of pages and, courtney, in that moment in that bookstore, I started to weep because just in a couple of glances it was describing me, and what I mean by that is that there are these characteristics that people who grew up in dysfunctional households and, by the way, aca, the current definition is adult children of alcoholics and other dysfunctional families oh okay, so it's okay. It relates to people who maybe were adopted or grew up in foster care. It relates to people who grew up in a very harsh military upbringing or a very stringent religious upbringing Any kind of dysfunction where, as a child, our needs were not only not met, but often squashed, demolished, terrified, abused. And so we grow up in this world with these survival skills of, for instance, being hyper vigilant. If our parent was dysfunctional in some way, we were always watching to see when things might fly off the handle or when chaos might ensue or when our parents needed us to come in and save them. I remember, as a young child, my mom would be dissolving in tears about something and as an eight-year-old, I'm walking up to her and comforting her.
Margy Schaller:So these survival skills having a sense of having to control everything Because we grew up in a very out-of-control world this desire to have everything perfect and have everything, just making sure that everybody does the thing that they're supposed to do, so that it keeps us from feeling anxious. Oftentimes we put on a superhero cape. As adults, well, we're going to fix everybody and fix everything and make sure that we're there for people when they need us, because, again, as a child, that was our role. And the list goes on and on of these characteristics. The list goes on and on of these characteristics, and so I immediately started reading more literature and then eventually going to the ACA meetings. And they have these beautiful workbooks.
Margy Schaller:The language is so gentle and loving and careful to really uncover what were some of those survival skills that I learned as a child, that I had brought into adulthood, that were no longer working for me.
Margy Schaller:And I'll take the example of paper vigilance.
Margy Schaller:I, for my entire life, if I'd gone to any sort of event, I can be talking with you, and then my eyeballs are also watching as people are walking the door to make sure that nobody feels like they're alone, and also I'm watching the buffet line to make sure that there's food in there and seeing if the wait staff are being attentive to that, and also over here, making sure that this other person that I just talked to has now moved into a conversation with somebody else.
Margy Schaller:All of those things are going into my head all at once and I'm never actually really present. Now it turns out that the ACA program helps me to see what elements of those survival skills are still useful and what parts are damaging me. And so, as somebody who's been that kind of hypervigilance, I'm a great program manager. I can see the big picture, I can see all the moving parts, I can see what's going to work and what isn't going to work. But what wasn't working for me was that anxiety of having to sort of run the show mentally in my head all the time, and so I've had to really work at that, soothing myself, recognizing that I'm a guest at this event and I'm here talking with you, courtney, and can I just be in my feet and enjoy this moment of communion with another human being and not having to run the show.
Courtney Andersen :Right.
Margy Schaller:Yeah, that's huge. That's huge. Because, I think, as I go through one of these survival skills and each one of these behaviors that's no longer serving me, it's really beautiful to acknowledge those that have helped me be who I am while working on taking care of that inner child, that that scared, overwhelmed and hurt little girl that is just trying to make things right right, right, how long was that process for you to work through?
Courtney Andersen :adult children of alcoholics, what was that? I mean, I'm sure it's still like I'm still doing it. I was going to say, but was it like three years for you? Because there's got to be anything that you work through, it's a couple of years, usually of some intensity, right, of really putting effort into it and the energy into it, and I do believe that's forever a work in progress that you have to probably now of, okay, meeting with where your mother was at in her life and where she came from, and seeing her more as a human than a mom, and I'm sure that process has probably been more real as you've gotten older, right, but yeah, so how has that process of healing been for you?
Margy Schaller:Yeah, unlike the traditional AA program or modern day coaching programs where they're sort of intense working to the tail steps or working through the certain process, aca has developed a series of workbooks but each one takes you a little bit deeper or further down a particular path. For sure, my first year and a half two years was just really uncovering and discovering and figuring out. Wow, I didn't know. That was why I was. I hadn't realized that this is the damage I did to my kids. In the same way, I didn't realize that I have a choice in how I feel about things.
Margy Schaller:But because it's so deeply ingrained in my core, messaging like that first workbook, I chose to go through three times and each one takes about. Each sort of cycle takes about six to nine months, okay. And then I found the second workbook. It just published at that time and so I went through that one three times and then they just came out with a new one about two years ago and I'm taking it very slowly and I'm working through it with another person in ACA and so we've been in that book for close to two years and we're getting close to the end and we'll probably do it again.
Courtney Andersen :Okay, I like that Continuing to do it a couple times for really to be able to process all that.
Margy Schaller:Right, because the first time through, I'm just learning the language.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah.
Margy Schaller:And I'm just sort of seeing what's obvious, having been through it all the way once, the second time or the third time through. It's okay, these things have been handled, but oh, I didn't see those before right, right, right, exactly.
Courtney Andersen :Has there been a process though for you? Has there been a forgiveness towards your mom? Are you still working on that?
Margy Schaller:no, no, absolutely. It was a while. I think the hardest thing for me was that at when I was 13, my dad stepped in and there was a nasty court case and we ended up being the judge granted custody to my dad, not my mom, and she was so upset that she decided that she was going to go to AA and get sober. And I think she was sober for a little less than a year and then she chose to go back out and continue to drink until she died, and so my hardest thing was forgetting that she had a taste of sobriety and chose to walk away.
Margy Schaller:But there's this beautiful image in ACA where you go into sort of a meditation and you imagine climbing up a telephone pole or a ladder or something where you can go high, and then there's a perch up on top and you get on top and you look out and what you see is a line of people as far as you can see into the horizon, a line of people as far as you can see into the horizon, and you see this backpack, this nasty, dirty, heavy backpack, and it's being passed from each person through the line, forward, forward, forward.
Margy Schaller:And then suddenly you look down and you realize the third to last person is your great grandparent, and the second to last person is your grandparent and the last person is your parent. And as a nasty backpack gets handed to your parent, they're reaching up and handing it to you. And so, in seeing that, I recognized that, just as I didn't have any of the life skills I didn't know anything else to deal with stress or celebration or Wednesday besides drinking no more. So did my mother, and she didn't have the tools. She wasn't given the opportunity to heal from some of that in time to save me. And while I did pass that backpack to my kids, I have been able to sit with them and unpack that together with them as adults, so they may pick it up and do something with it, but at least I've unpacked it and we have those conversations and we've had that healing, and so that has allowed me to really look at my mother in a completely different way.
Courtney Andersen :Did you have a relationship with her still after she when she went back out? Did you have a relationship up with her up until she passed away?
Margy Schaller:Our relationship was always really tricky. Yeah, it was never healthy, it was never. She was very emotionally abusive and even at when we moved back with my dad and my stepmother, they would coach me on how to have conversations with her on the phone so that I could get through and as unscathed as possible and not in a puddle of tears. And that went on all the way through high school, all the way to college. She died when I was 25 and the last two years were probably the best of those years, simply because I was no longer in a position where she could tell me what to do as a student.
Courtney Andersen :But it was tricky, yeah for sure with your kids, because I think this would be great for moms and the dads to hear, the dads who listen, but in particular with the moms with quitting drinking alcohol, and then how do you bring that? What's that conversation then you have with your children? How do you? Because you were in 12 Steps, so I'm sure you made your amends with your children, but even if somebody is not following 12 Steps, how would, from your perspective, your experience, how would you have that conversation with your kids?
Margy Schaller:So it's been multi-layered as I've come to more awareness, I've had more conversations. When I first got sober they were 8 and 11, and they didn't even see my drinking as a problem, and so there was a whole lot of denial that the three of us had to work through together. And my 8-year-old son, at one point, after I'd been sober for a little bit, he said to me he was in the back seat, we were driving, and he said Mommy, did you get sober for me and my sister? We were driving and he said Mommy, did you get sober for me and my sister? And I took a moment to think and I said, absolutely, I wanted to make it so I can be the best mommy possible, but I also had to do it for me.
Margy Schaller:But fast forward, as I began to understand some of the damage that I had done, not just through the drinking but also through the behaviors of parentalizing them and the behaviors of always looking to them to praise me, to fill up that hole that I had, of needing somebody to give me approval.
Margy Schaller:And so at that point they were probably late teenage, early adult, being ages, and so I would just share openly with him about my journey and I would say I realized I looked to everybody else to give me praise and all the way through your whole lives I've asked you to give me praise. Don't you like the food mommy made you for dinner? Isn't this a pretty outfit that mommy's wearing? Didn't mommy do a good job at work today? And that wasn't fair to you, because it's not your job to tell me things to make me feel better. It's my job to tell me things to make me feel better, and I'm sorry. And so it opened up these conversations where we were able to then sometimes laugh, sometimes cry. I would say can you think of other funny examples of when I did that to you, so they would?
Courtney Andersen :sort of laugh about it, but also be able to vent a little bit, right, right, how is that, though? I mean, your kids are probably what past 21?.
Margy Schaller:My kids. Now we're in their thirt, yeah, okay so do they drink they both drink light socially okay.
Courtney Andersen :So how was that for you, though, when they were entering in the drinking years? What was that conversation like? Because this is a conversation again. I have a three and a half year old but the time is going to come where, eventually and he said like, a couple months ago, we were in Costco and he was like do you want to get wine, mama? And I was like, what has this child learned about wine? Like it was just so weird of what he said, and I was like, oh no, buddy, mama and dada don't drink, right. So that's the conversation, but there's going to be a conversation I have with him one day. But there's going to be a conversation I have with him one day, and even then, when he gets into, when alcohol starts becoming in high school and college, it's going to be there for these kids. So what was that?
Margy Schaller:conversation like of that awareness to your children. Well, they were again 8 and 11 when I got sober and I brought them with me to meetings oh, nice, nice. So they heard the stories about people messes and they heard the story of people's healing and I think that was really helpful so that when they got to those ages it was like okay, like you guys know, there there's a whole slew of unhealthy things that come with drinking. Yeah, but I understand it's also fun and everybody's doing it, and so I'm not going to say like never drink, but just be aware, and I set certain boundaries in place. If you've ever been drinking, I don't care what the circumstances are. Like you call me, I'll crawl out of bed and come get you. Yeah, no repercussions, no, nothing Right.
Margy Schaller:And both of them, I think, drank moderately, maybe got drunk a couple of times in high school, yeah, but both of them in college. Each of them had a situation where a friend called the ambulance to take them to the hospital because they were worried about them dying, which, as a mother, was terrifying them dying right, which, as a mother, was terrifying. And my response in both of those cases was because at that point I knew that they were like not going to die. Well, I guess you're going to have to figure out how to pay the ambulance bill, and I did that because I didn't want to shame them.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, for this mistake yeah but I did want them to have to face the consequences of this situation which is genius, I mean, I like honestly that's the way to, because imagine if you would have shamed them in that moment, right, as they're like sitting in a hospital, but nobody wants to hear that. But parents, I'm sure, have come in hot where it's just what did you just do? Or are you an idiot? But it's just very it's. Look, the kids are of that age, right, and thank God they're safe, and how can I make this that moment? Well, what is your consequence going to be? So good, you made him pay for the ambulance, right.
Margy Schaller:But they already knew so, because they already knew the dangers of over drinking, because that had been a discussion that has just normal commonplace in our household. I didn didn't need to do that, I didn't need to like kick the stick and beat them more with it. I one time had this mommy, mentor. My kids were your kids age and her three teenage boys were so well behaved. I remember going how did you do that? And she said to me something she had been taught, which is, she said, parenting is a little bit like one of those springs, like a coiled spring, and when your kids are little you hold the spring all the way tight and the goal is, by the time that they're launched, that it's all the way loose.
Margy Schaller:The trick is not to hold it all the way tight until they leave, because then it'll go destroying all over the place, right, but it's to gradually allow it to open and open, and that means sometimes they make mistakes. But they make mistakes when I'm there to catch, and I'd rather they make the mistakes when I'm there to catch than the first time ever making a mistake out in the world. I can't help them, so I allowed them to fail, make bad choices while they were still home.
Courtney Andersen :Right, I'm starting to learn that with the dictator because I was very, those first two years especially. I'm like don't do that, don't do it when they're little, yes. And so now, especially since there's some freedom of him like going to school, and I'm just trying to like just give him a little bit of starting gonna climb on the couch, you're gonna learn if you fall, like that I'll learn. Not having him hang from monkey bars, yeah, but it's like baby steps of just of where he's at in his age, of loosening up that control on my end and allowing him to start doing a little living.
Margy Schaller:Yeah, and I think that reason I drank was because I didn't know any different.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah.
Margy Schaller:The reason I drank was it was my only tool to cope, and drinking in and of itself isn't the bad thing. It was how I used it, yeah, and so I really have worked hard with the kids to communicate that aspect of it. If you go to a party and you have a beer, have fun, but if you've had a horrible day and you go to that party and have six beers now, you're in the danger zone.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, which is great because that's learning right and it is even with you say of like, where you learn. I think that for so many generations there wasn't because nobody knew any better, right? You know what I mean. There wasn't a way to explain to your kids like there's other ways to cope with life and stress and or have fun without alcohol, right? And in these two generations your generation, mine there's awareness all about this, and even younger ones underneath us. So I just think that is a beautiful thing of all of this awareness and all of this help that is out there nowadays, but it's really about keeping that conversation open inside of your home.
Margy Schaller:And it's bearing fruit now. I mean the younger generation, statistically, are drinking significantly less as they're coming into adulthood than our generations did, and I believe it is because we have worked really hard at developing other coping tools.
Courtney Andersen :Yes, exactly, and that's the thing. So when you got sober, that's what I mean, Like I think that's very hard for moms to have an open discussion or the family unit right, Like where it's the family unit of Open to your children. I remember one of my sister-in-laws were like well, how do I explain this to my kids? I said you just be open about it. You know what I mean. There's mental health issues and addiction that run on both sides of the family. It's not frowned upon nowadays and you just got to rip that bandaid off. And I think that you can express that to children at whatever age group that they're at, where they somewhat get it. If I were to explain that to the dictator right now, he would just probably look at me and maybe ask me what addiction was and then ask me to go color.
Margy Schaller:You know what I mean these children, it's like they you normalize the words, you normalize the vocabulary at this age, so that later, when you're having this conversation, it's not what are we talking about, right, it's just normal right, and that's what I wanted to ask you too, because being an adult child of an alcoholic, there's this you, because it has secrets, will keep you sick and other people's secrets will keep you sick.
Courtney Andersen :And how did you release your mother's the shame of your mom being an alcoholic? Because at some point you have to release that and be like okay, this isn't continue my story to take with me that was on her and it is not a shameful aspect of my life.
Margy Schaller:Well, because she passed when I was 25, I was not sober at that point. While she was living, I definitely carried that I wouldn't invite people over past a certain time of night because I didn't know what would happen.
Courtney Andersen :Right right.
Margy Schaller:And because I had such a difficult relationship with her once she passed, I'm just going to say I had no problem difficult relationship with her once she passed. I'm just going to say I had no problem. For me under the bus, gotcha, yeah Right. But the inside job didn't happen until I came across ACA. And I remember thinking to myself when I was in my first couple years of sobriety, like if she was a stranger who showed up in one of the AA rooms that I was in until I really got through the idea that she didn't have any other tools, just as I didn't have any other tools. And even when she did get to work for that year, it was the white knuckle if I can do this long enough to get the kids back thing. And once it was clear that the kids were coming back, the white knuckle wheeled out. It wasn't going to work.
Courtney Andersen :He wasn't able to cope with that kind of stress yeah uh-huh yeah, do you feel because this is an interesting, this is an interesting concept and this is what I had felt when I got sober.
Courtney Andersen :There was a couple of years in and I experienced this too, with a lot of working with one-on-one clients what we talk about, where there is this certain type of loneliness that you experience and you wonder where.
Courtney Andersen :You're like this can't be like physical loneliness, right, like this because I have people around me, right, like I have friends, I have, if you have a significant other right.
Courtney Andersen :This was for me where I was like I have, if you have a significant other right. This is for me, where I was like, oh, this isn't a physical loneliness, where I had some inner loneliness because this went back to my childhood and I feel like adult children of alcoholics and or of what you said, of like some type of trauma or experienced parents, of what did you say. And then it's the parents of Dysfunctional parents, dysfunctional parents, dysfunctional parents right, that there is this internal loneliness that you can't pinpoint and I couldn't pinpoint it until I got sober in a couple of years and I was like this has always been here Because at those formative years the needs that I needed were not met right With a lot of work that I did on myself, and sometimes not so much now, but I dealt with that for time to time and just accepted that it was a part of me. Did you feel that too and did?
Margy Schaller:yes.
Courtney Andersen :And that's like, unfortunately sometimes. Did it help you when you work through it, through the program of Adult Children of Alcoholics? Did that help?
Margy Schaller:yes, okay. So that was another aspect of when I got sober that those first seven or eight years I was surrounded by women that I'd never had relationships before and yet I still felt I didn't feel all the way connected. And what I uncovered through my work in ACA was that I had always walked through life with this mask the I'm fine mask, oh yeah.
Margy Schaller:I've got it all together mask. And I found my purpose in AA, my passion in AA to put on that hero cape and to be there for others. And I got to sponsor women and I got to help other women and it still was needed me to be the superhero. But there was one day I sat down and I thought I don't remember the last time anybody asked me what I like to do. In fact, I don't know if any of my friends even know my hobbies, Because I'm so good at deflecting conversations away from me and I'm so good at taking questions. Somebody does ask me quickly, answering it lightly and then turning it back to them Because I could hide in plain sight and I was devastated. I was devastated that I was the one keeping people at arm's length through these behaviors that I wasn't even aware that I had.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah.
Margy Schaller:And I will say, just simultaneously with that realization, we moved from San Diego to Seattle. With that realization, we moved from San Diego to Seattle. And so it was this opportunity for me to say, okay, am I going to show up differently as I get snow people, Am I going to be the sort of person who has two-way relationships or one-way relationships? Am I going to be the sort of person who takes up just as much airtime in conversations or deflects them all to the other person? And so the first friend that I made here, that was my every bit of intention. I worked really hard at it and I even shared with her like this is something I'm working on, so call me on it if you see me doing it and it was unlike anything I've ever experienced To just actually trust that somebody liked me and grew to love me because of who I am, not of what I presented.
Courtney Andersen :Yes, right, exactly Right. Yeah, so powerful, yeah. So, for anybody listening, if you're struggling with that loneliness, it's just working through it with that loneliness, it's just working through it, obviously. But also to I don't. I just sometimes I feel like when you embrace, start embracing parts of yourself and really accepting it, instead of pushing it away and putting resisting and resisting, because that resistance will drive you batshit crazy. I've just this is part of who I am and what can I do in these moments to honor that internal loneliness? Because this is going to go back, because sometimes you're never going to get that. You're never going to get also to, in that loneliness, that validation from anybody else who you're never going to get it, from the people who you were supposed to trust the most and they failed you Right. And so I just believe in embracing that and just you got to heal yourself and that inner child and just be like it's okay. If I want to take a day to lay in my bed and disassociate with some Netflix, cool, I want to go get a massage.
Margy Schaller:Or if you have a good day at work, you can reach back and pat yourself on the back and say, wow, you did a great job today.
Courtney Andersen :Yes and Mari, I have to say that is why I encourage people, whatever day they're not drinking, to pat themselves on the back. I know that for some people they don't like to take that on, but it is something that goes so much deeper of you need that Validate yourself. Physical touch yes, Feels so good, yes, exactly. So what would be like three tips that you would share with somebody to to help someone start healing who is an adult child of an alcoholic? What three tips would you give or steps would you recommend for them to start on that path?
Margy Schaller:I think that number one is I love the organization or the literature from ACA, and so just Google ACA and read the laundry list. Laundry list is the list of these characteristics that we have in common, that are things that are survival skills from when you're a kid. I think the second thing is that if we can start to unpack some of these character defects, these things that we don't like about ourselves I'm super controlling, or I'm super needy and start to see where did those behaviors come from and understand that you're not flawed. You simply did the best that you could as a kid and you carried what you learned to do into adulthood in a way that's just not working right now. Right, and I think that the third thing is the beginning of that self-forgiveness. I think that when, as adult children of dysfunctional families or alcoholics, we hold ourselves to be ridiculous standards yeah, oh my god, yes ridiculous standards yes and so to begin to recognize.
Margy Schaller:If you saw another child being treated the way that your inner child was, you'd be horrified, and if you saw that little girl or little boy growing up and functioning in the world the way that they were, you would be amazed that they made it through. And so give yourself that grace. What you went through may not be somebody else's horrifying story, but it was your horrifying story, and the fact that you've made it through and are functioning in some way as an adult is amazing.
Courtney Andersen :Amen because that's when people are like, well, this only happened to me. I'm like, no, you need to recognize your own type of trauma that you had and that this was a big deal for you and this impacted and shaped who you were. Because now, in your 30s, you have this and this and you're unpacking it like this is hard to unpack later on in life, 30s. You have this and this and you're unpacking it Like this is hard to unpack later on in life, you know where you're still then like especially too, if you have kids and or it's just it's a lot to go through and figure out who you are later on in life, not like you're going through your 20s and like having this an awakening and be like, oh great, I'm not like you. So you, you got to give yourself the grace and, yes, that you are now an adult who takes care of themselves, pays their bills right, all the puts food in your kid's mouth and clothes on your back and you're doing the damn things.
Margy Schaller:And so with that, then, unpacking it becomes a gift you're giving yourself, as opposed to one more thing to carry shame about.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, absolutely Well, I love this conversation, so I really appreciate you sharing it to the good people of the world that's what I call the listeners and I know that this is going to help them. Where can people find you? Tell us about Sober Life Rocks? I did not mention and I will link it in the show notes but your partner, laura, she was on the podcast. I don't know what episode it was, but we had a great talk about making events more inclusive, especially in the conference world.
Margy Schaller:Yep, thank you. Sober Life Brocks is an organization where we are really trying to normalize sober choices for professionals, because remember that was my origin story it just wasn't okay. And what we dream about is a world where, when you go to happy hour with your team, or when you travel to a conference, or when you go out afterwards after work with friends for drinks, that it's completely normal doesn't matter what's in your cup to have something that has alcohol, doesn't have alcohol, and that when you speak up and say, hey, I don't drink, that that's celebrated and honored yeah instead, instead of asking why yeah.
Margy Schaller:Are you pregnant? Yeah, I don't Right. Oh, are you religious? Right, right, exactly, as though those are things to be said quietly.
Courtney Andersen :Right, I mean it's crazy, but and that is, though, why, like specifically what you ladies are doing, I love it because it's just more education, especially to with professionals, since that is so centered around those conferences. I mean, I was blown away when you both have told me about all of the partying and what and like what those conferences are, and it's crazy. Yes, and like even me and Laura had the conversation on the podcast of, especially for women. You have to do twice as much work right In your profession to prove yourself and then get to a certain point, right If you want to climb a ladder or prove yourself to to the corporate world that you are capable and you can do this and handle it, because women have to do that. And then you go to a conference on the weekend and you get shit faced and hammered, and then that is all you're known for. You know what I mean, so it's it's heartbreaking, and then that's all you're known for the time in your work office in the nine to five.
Margy Schaller:That's what Heather did, or you go to a conference and afterwards all of the cool people are going out for drinks. And if your job is to try to network and build relationships, do you, as a sober person, go to those activities where everybody's going out for drinks, or do you just shrug your shoulders and go back to your room? It's a tough situation out there.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah. Yeah absolutely yeah, yeah.
Margy Schaller:The other thing that we're doing is we also recognize that there are people like you who have been on this journey for a while and are leading the charge with your podcast and with your coaching and with all of the things, and there's others who want to start to do more.
Margy Schaller:Maybe they're just starting a podcast, or maybe they want to be a speaker, or maybe they started to write, but maybe now they want to try other things. Or they had this great social media following, but now they want to get into podcasting. So we're holding a conference called Amplify Sober Voices and it's on January 15th 2026 in Orlando, florida, and the idea is that if you are somebody who wants to be in this space, who wants to be part of the conversation whether it's speaking, writing, podcasting or on social media come to the conference, meet people like Courtney, who's going to be one of our speakers, and meet people who maybe you've looked up to or show up and help other people along their journey, because we all need community and those of us who are leading, oftentimes it's lonely at the top, but when we can be in community with each other and lift each other up and amplify our sober voices, we'll all benefit and we'll all be able to help this mission around the world.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, I love it. I can't wait. I can't wait to meet you ladies, too, in person. Give you guys a hug. I'm a hugger In real life, me too. Good, yeah, I think that's great of what you're doing, and especially, too, that start to be more the normal in conferences and that you know of leading with story and that and in all of conferences. Right, that then the higher ops aren't going to take you aside and be like I don't think that you should leave with that, right? This is just. This is this is my story and this is my experience in the world, so I'm very excited. I will put a link in the show notes for the Amplify Sober Voices, so if you are interested in it, please come on and come for that day, because it's a day please come on and come for that day, because it's a day correct the whole day of the day, so it's being held as a day within something called pod fest expo.
Margy Schaller:It's the largest podcasting conference and it's it's international. 2 000 podcasters are there and so they have their whole own programming, but they have allowed us to have a silo day for Amplify Sober Voices within that.
Courtney Andersen :So when you come to our conference, you automatically get a ticket to the greater podfest if you want, yeah, which is going to be great, and I really I told you, ladies, I think this is going to be a big hit and that a lot of those podcasters are going to come to this, because the storytelling alone just focus on storytelling right, and how so many of us are very articulate and being able to share a story. I think people are just going to want to learn from that, honestly that who are not even sober right, and just to check it out. So I think it's a big one.
Courtney Andersen :Yeah, well, thank you so much for being on today's episode and again, I will put all of your information in the show notes below. So if you want to reach out to Margie, feel free and even connect your Instagram and your website.
Margy Schaller:Beautiful. Thank you so much, and thank you for really making a space for this conversation, because I believe that many people grow up in some form of dysfunction or another and we don't have the tools to heal until we figure out even what's going on yeah, especially too, about this topic right, because again, it's like you carry on somebody else's shame.
Courtney Andersen :I will just put this when I had and I'm sure you're even the way you talked about your mom, it was not in a blame situation, it was not in a you did this right, like it was in a very caring, loving way and respectful way, and how I have talked about my parents on this space.
Courtney Andersen :For the most part I would probably say about 90% I have been respectful, because they're still on this planet and even when they're not, I don't think that I'm going to truly go there, right, because that was their story. But this is my perspective and this is what happened to me and how I came out of that chaos, and I can speak my truth when it comes to that, and I want people to be able to do that within themselves. That came from dysfunction. You can still have a relationship with a parent even if you came from dysfunction, but it can be very much a boundary and one that now you make on your terms that feels right for you, and then, if you don't ever want to have a relationship with them, that's fine. I mean, I just that these relationships they're very complicated, yeah, and it's not all black and white. There's a lot of gray area of this, so much gray area, but what's important is just that you, as that adult child, heal yourself and go on that journey and work through that stuff.
Margy Schaller:Thank you for having me, Courtney.
Courtney Andersen :Thank you next time.
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