SaaS Stories
SaaS Stories is my not-so-secret quest to learn what it truly takes to succeed in the world of SaaS—and I’m inviting you along for the ride! I have the pleasure of sitting down with brilliant minds and industry trailblazers to explore their journeys, uncovering the secrets behind their growth, the gaps they spotted in the market, and what really drives them.
It’s not all smooth sailing—there are challenges, unexpected turns, and moments of reflection where they share what they’d love to change about their journey. Think of it as a candid, insider’s look into the world of SaaS, with just the right amount of curiosity, empathy, and wit.
Join me as I dive deep, selfishly soak up all the insights, and hopefully share a little inspiration with you along the way—one SaaS story at a time.
SaaS Stories
Content Marketing That Works: Becky Lawlor on Original Research, AI, and Building Trust
The episode explores the vital role of original research in content marketing, highlighting its capacity to build trust and engagement in today's competitive landscape. Becky Lawlor discusses actionable strategies for B2B SaaS companies to enhance their content and effectively communicate their insights.
We cover:
• Importance of original research for brand differentiation
• Insights from B2B buyers on content sharing and engagement
• Strategies for conducting effective original research
• Trust as a key factor in B2B content marketing
• Perceptions of AI-generated content among buyers
• Metrics to measure content effectiveness and ROI
• Common mistakes in content marketing efforts
• Recommendations for high-quality, niche-focused content
Download the research at www.redpointcontent.com to learn more about enhancing your content strategy!
Welcome everybody to another episode of SaaS Stories. Today. I'm super excited to be joined by Becky Lawler from Redpoint, all the way from Utah Is that right, becky? That's right. Salt Lake City Amazing. Tell us about your journey and how you started Redpoint. What got you started into the world? I think you have a background in content strategy, so I'm really keen to learn about that, as well as what inspired you to start Redpoint.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've been in the content marketing kind of. I started as a freelancer probably about 15 years ago and just landed in the tech space kind of by circumstance. One of my friends was running an agency and she happened to be in tech when I did my first kind of pieces. But I actually found it really suited me in terms of. I enjoyed learning. So there's always something new and I'm actually pretty good at taking really complex stuff and breaking it down to more simplified concepts for like C-suite and folks that aren't as technical.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of where I got started and in that journey of kind of writing content for clients, I you know, one of the things that you find is that when you're kind of circling clients in a similar space or industry, is that it's actually a challenge for you as the writer to differentiate the content. So it all sounds interesting. I mean, they all have their little angle. But in terms of research, often you're like I've got these three reports and I've kind of ended up citing them for this client here and this client here, and so one of the earliest opportunities, I was writing for Adobe and they obviously do a ton of their own research and they handed me a data set to write a report with and I just almost instantly fell in love with it. One just because I was like okay, great, Like I can tell a story that nobody else can tell. Finally, like I'm not just regurgitating the same research that's already out there in different ways, and I just really loved that aspect of it and I think I just love kind of data storytelling in general.
Speaker 2:So that's really what piqued my interest and from there I kind of decided I wanted to delve into that more. So I actually got one-on-one training with a woman who used to run the content marketing benchmark reports. She's not there anymore, but she used to do that for the Content Marketing Institute. And so now I've been doing kind of both the content marketing side and original research for about six years now, and in that process I decided to move from freelancer to founding an agency called Redpoint. I happen to be a rock climber, so Redpoint is a climbing term that actually means you have finally succeeded in getting a climb perfect after many tries. So I thought it was kind of apropos for content creation as well, because there's usually rounds of revisions before you get it just right good to know, learn something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would have loved to be a rock climber, but my husband's scared of heights, so we did not explore that any further. But, coming back to original research, you mentioned original research. You mentioned original research. Please tell me what is original research? And I mean when it comes to content. It's so saturated out there, so how can original research help brands stand out with content?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think. First, your point about what is original research, because I think sometimes that is a concept that isn't well defined or people don't know exactly what is meant by that. So what it means is, in some way you are sharing research that is uniquely yours or owned by you, and I mentioned survey-based research. That's one type of original research, but it's certainly not the only type. I also work with companies a lot that maybe they have internal data, like, for example, I have a client who does call analytics and we've taken their call analytics, anonymized data and looked at it across, like the different industries that they collect it for, and done different reports. That way, analyzing what the data is saying, maybe helping A lot of times.
Speaker 2:That's great for benchmarking. Like you know, these folks are seeing this right. Where are you at on that scale? Are you above, below? So internal data is another one, but you can also take a third-party data set and analyze it so that you're coming up with unique again insights or analysis from that, for example, like a common one might be if you wanted to.
Speaker 2:Or actually, I was just on a webinar with a guy who'd gone to LinkedIn and he had reviewed 8,000 LinkedIn posts by different agencies to like decide to learn which ones, which type of post agencies were posting and which ones were getting the most engagement, and therefore to kind of come up with some ideas of what you should be doing to improve your LinkedIn engagement as an agency owner.
Speaker 2:So that would be another type of original research that maybe a lot of people wouldn't really think of. So the bottom line is any way that you're adding unique, original insights and analysis is original research, and the reason that it is, I think, so important to do this now is because, as you noted, there's so much content out there. Ai, I think, is only making this worse, so to speak. So, getting attention and really differentiating your content, I think it does require more and more. If you really want to stand out and you want to have your content stand out, you need to be saying something that is different from what everybody else is saying, and original research allows you to do that.
Speaker 1:We're definitely going to talk about AI, but not quite yet. I love that. You said that I mainly work in account based marketing no-transcript B2B buyers as well so I'm curious what have you uncovered, and what were the most surprising ones as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I really I did ask them about. I asked 250 B2B buyers and I asked them about, you know, a bunch of different metrics around content. What would make them convert in different ways? What would actually make them make a purchase? What would make them share content more with others on the buying committee? What would make them share content more with others on the buying committee? What would make them share their own personal data? And then I also asked some questions around like brand awareness and brand authority and how content, what types of content contributed to that?
Speaker 2:And, across the board, actually original research, and I had a couple of different types of original research. And then I had things like just you know how to articles, educational content, case studies, so some other types of content as well. But across the board, on all of those questions, all the types of original research, whether that was survey-based or more of a data analysis or even interviews with industry experts and peers, which we didn't that's kind of like a. You know it is still a type of original research Because again, you're adding new insights that can't be found somewhere else to a conversation when you include interviews. So all of those scored the highest across the board, with folks saying they were two and a half times more likely to share content that had original research in it and two times more likely to share their personal data when they had original research in it.
Speaker 2:One of the most surprising findings which was a little bit, and I'm going to keep the AI findings for later when we get to AI, but around the research was I think there's this one thing, and I think one thing that holds a lot of companies back is this idea that research is really, really expensive. You've got to go with a big consultancy. You know to be reputable, you've got to use a third party to do this. And so I asked about brand owned research versus having third party research and surprisingly well, first 50% of respondents said they just didn't care either way. You could do third party or brand owned, and it didn't really matter. They didn't see one as more trustworthy or um validated than the other. But of the other 50 percent, um 30, 29, so essentially 30, so a larger portion um actually said that brand owned research was more credible than third party. And I had a follow-up question in the survey, which was open-ended about, like why, why do you think that? And what it came back.
Speaker 2:Which really does make sense is that the brands had their reputations on the line and when they when it was done with the third party everybody knows that you're paying the third party to do the research. That's not really a secret so they actually felt that the third parties were more likely to just bend to the will of the brand when they were doing the research because they were being paid to do it. So I thought that that was interesting and just really, you know, I think it's important for brands to know there's a lot of ways they can dip their toe into doing original research for content marketing and they don't have to go out and, you know, pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to a big consultancy to do it. In fact, I think there's a ton of benefits of actually doing whether you use somebody behind the scenes but still stamping your brand on it. I think there's a ton of benefits to having brand-owned research and really building your own authority and brand awareness by doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, and so, just exploring that a little bit more, what are some ways you know B2B SaaS companies, for example, can go out there and do original research? You mentioned things like interviews and peer how to's and that's the kind of content that people seem to love. How can they go about that and what else can they do to get that original research?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think interviews is the low hanging fruit right, like you don't? I mean, if you're in content, you should be able to interview people and you could go out and do something like you know eight CIOs on this topic and then create a great report about all their different perspectives on whatever topic or problem or solution, the area that you wanted to focus on. So that one, I think, is a very easy one for people to do. There's just a little bit of time in, you know, getting people to agree to do the interviews and doing the interview. So you know a little more time resource there.
Speaker 2:Surveys is another great one and I will say there is a lot of things that kind of go into that. But I would still, you know, you can dip your toe in again, like just give it a try. If you don't have any budget, you can just use a Google form or something you can try to survey your customers. I would start with a small survey. There are a lot of. Again, you'll have to kind of learn because a lot of people think there is a lot that goes into writing a survey, well, to get really strong data. But again, it's kind of experimental. I think you can go ahead, give it your best shot, put it out there, get some responses, use that iterate kind of, start to learn how to do better with writing your surveys, especially geared towards content. But so that would be another way to do it, like I said, being creative, like I gave the LinkedIn example so there could be something in your space.
Speaker 2:You know another agency. I know they kind of analyze 250 SaaS websites every year. They kind of keep track of them, they look at the traffic and look at what you know different aspects drive rankings. So again, I'm in original research. So one of the stats that I love that they found is actually that original research boosts SEO rankings, that the out of those 250, the ones that were using original research in their content.
Speaker 2:We're seeing higher rankings. So, but that again is just analyzing the data set versus collecting survey. And then, like I said, another one is thinking about if you're a SaaS company and you do have internal, like you're collecting analytics from your software or something that could then be externally used for content if the data is anonymized, there might be an opportunity there as well to do that.
Speaker 1:It definitely sounds a lot more interesting that something that could be just generated by AI. I mean, yeah, I definitely would love to much prefer to read something like you know, someone has actually sat down and analyzed 200 websites, or you know anything along those lines. Now, when it comes to actual ways to put the content out there, for example on LinkedIn, you know a lot of people are kind of thinking should we do carousels, should we do videos? Should we do polls? Have you found any research on that? What works better for B2B buyers?
Speaker 2:Well, I did ask them. I did ask a question about what kind of formats they want, but it was. It wasn't so much about channels like LinkedIn, but it was just more around formats. And they do again. It's still the research report scored high. Case studies again, because that's a similar like case studies in some ways. Again, going back to the interview, it's a real person, real, you know, people are just interested in what their peers are doing, what's going on in their industry. They want kind of nuggets of insights, um, that come from humans, quite frankly, you know, in different ways. So, um, so that was another one that I found Um, I think video was third or fourth, which isn't surprising because, um, because it's been gaining a lot.
Speaker 2:So those were the kind of the top ones I also found they want in terms of, like, how to format it. You know, I was actually surprised they, I thought like visual, and visual did score high, but I was actually surprised a lot of them. I think deep analysis actually ranked second out of the options. So they were saying like, yeah, we, you know, we want it to be visual, but we actually want there to be some meat to you know, we want you to not just present the stats but give us some thought behind why this is happening or what's going on, so we really have some insights to kind of take away from the content that we're reading. So that was another interesting finding. I thought I actually didn't expect that people. You know, we're such a everybody says, everybody skims everything and people but I guess that's not really true when B2B buyers are really trying to make decisions about what to buy.
Speaker 1:That is really interesting. I did think, actually, video might be at the top of that list, but it sounds like it's not. It kind of makes sense. I think we're so used to consuming short video type content that we've now just kind of gone in the opposite of that and we're like no, no, we want to read a really in-depth bit of research that actually makes us learn something rather than just entertains us for 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the other piece of it you know, I was really kind of asking around the buying process. So maybe video is really engaging for just kind of you're out there learning about your field, kind of. But if you're actually trying to make an informed decision about something, then I think some of these other formats do better, because video can also be kind of seen as like the fun format, but now you're really trying to have a deep, deeper takeaway so that you're making the right decision in terms of where you're going to put your money, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really good point. Actually, is there any research around? You know where all of this fits in on the buyer journey? Like we need to do this at the awareness stage, this at consideration, this at decision, or is it pretty, yeah?
Speaker 2:I know I did ask them you know at what stage um is content most impactful in their buying journey and the number one was the evaluation stage. I think I have that. I wrote that down here. I think it was 72%. Yeah 72% said the evaluation which I would call the middle of the funnel.
Speaker 2:And then second was 60% said early research, which would be top of funnel. So, but I was kind of surprised, middle of the funnel was more impactful, I guess, because at that point they're really on their journey of like trying to find the right thing. So so also that again points to going a little bit deeper with your content and your analysis and everything you're, providing that they are in a stage of really wanting to learn, not just have awareness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's really good to know. I actually remember reading a stat that said um, you know, before a buyer reaches out, they're typically 60 percent of the way through the buyer journey already. They've already done their own research, they've been on your website, they've, you know, looked at this xyz, and so it makes sense that when they're in that middle part is when they're seeking more in-depth content and analysis from what you can provide them. That makes sense. What role does trust play? Do you think in B2B content? I feel, especially with AI coming up, you know what can content to? To raise trust and also humanize their brands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, trust plays a huge, a huge piece in the in the buying process, essentially in closing deals and being able to charge more. All of those pieces. The more a buyer trusts your brand, trust you, the easier all of those pieces are going to be right. And I did ask, like again, what type of content builds the most trust? And 93% of buyers said brands that invest in original research earn more of their trust. And again, I think this goes back to like they're showing their knowledge of the industry that they're in, they're showing their willingness to invest in that industry by actually doing research. That's beneficial for everybody in the industry and you know, when you do this kind of original research, it's often really good for brand awareness too, which I think the more somebody's aware of a brand and has heard that name, that actually builds trust typically as well.
Speaker 2:So there's that piece of it, but there's also the piece I did ask about AI. This is where we'll get into the AI conversation, because I think you know there's this kind of like what happens if we use AI? Do we lose trust? Will we not lose trust? And I was really expecting that the answer would be yes, you'll lose trust. You know the buyers don't want AI, but I was surprised to find that about 60% of buyers one said they don't, 60% or so said they actually like AI generated content, and about a similar amount said you know, it doesn't have any impact on their trust of a brand 61% said that. Now you could flip that 39% then say it does have an impact on their trust for a brand, but the larger side, it doesn't.
Speaker 2:But based on what I would say, though is based on everything else in this, in my report, my findings I don't think that buyers are saying that they want generic AI generated content. What I think they're saying is I don't really care what tool you use behind the scenes. I do want quality, I do want to hear from my peers, I do want research, I do want insights. I do want case studies. I do want insights, I do want case studies, but if you're using AI to help input all those things and draft or create your headlines, or I don't really care. It's like I don't care. Again, next year, I'll be asking a little bit more about kind of, to get their, why they don't, why they trust or why they don't care, to get a little more sense of that.
Speaker 1:Well, that's a big relief to hear that, because I don't think anyone was planning to stop using AI for content so few as you were talking about. You know original research playing a huge role in trust as well. I was thinking, you know, maybe there's just more authenticity and you know you're able to be more genuine with your content when you're using original research, so that could be another reason why it helps to increase trust.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think typically when you're, when you're publishing that type of report at least when I work with my clients think typically when you're, when you're publishing that type of report at least when I work with my clients we really are trying to keep it on the thought leadership level. So we're not being salesy at all in that content. It really is. Here's the findings, here's what came out of it. You know, maybe we've interviewed some industry experts to weigh in on those findings, but it really is an elevated piece of content. So I think that helps build trust, because there's not in those types of reports, there's typically not like a lot of selling, so to speak, going on yeah, yeah, that definitely helps.
Speaker 1:All right, let's talk about AI. Save the best for last. Um, you touched on, uh, the fact that they don't care if it's AI generated, as long as it is quality content. What else have you learned about AI from the survey, from the research?
Speaker 2:That was really all I didn't have and it was almost a last minute question for me to throw in there and I, like I said, I was so surprised with those. I was like, man, I should have asked more. So this year I will be asked more, but I only had those handful of questions around AI for this particular survey.
Speaker 1:And do you tend to use AI yourself? How have you found it's helped with productivity in your own line of work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do use AI and I am of the belief, you know, I know there's I mean, I come from I'm a writer first, and so I know there's a lot of controversy amongst my peers about whether to use it or not. But I am a believer that the technology is here to stay and you can either embrace it and move forward and and I guess I'm kind of like either you're going to be somebody that knows how to use the tech or you will be replaced by somebody who knows how to use the tech. So I think that you have to, and it has increased my productivity. I also think it's also increased my quality.
Speaker 2:Quite frankly, it can be a great thought partner when you're working all by yourself. I mean, you have to take everything ai says with a grain of salt. But you know what? You have to take other human feedback with a grain of salt too. Uh, like you know, I get uh feedback all the time on when you're doing writing and sometimes you you're like that. Actually, that comment doesn't make any sense for what I'm trying to achieve here. I'm going to ignore this one, but this one makes a lot of sense, you know. So I think AI is kind of the same way in that respect, but I think for just generating ideas getting you going when you're stuck, you know, I think it has a lot of benefits where it can increase productivity, and so I think you know yeah, I've embraced it and I think that it's really necessary as a marketer, as a content producer, to do so.
Speaker 1:I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And at least AI is completely honest. I remember I was using it to do some research and I said can you give me some stats or facts around you know this particular topic? And it gave me something. And I said where did you get this from? Like, give me the source where you took this from. And it gave me something. And I said where did you get this from? Like, give me the source where you took this from. And it pretty much told me like oh no, I actually made this up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there are. I mean, certainly that's part of the learning process, like there's certain things like I you know I would never use chat, gpt to go do third party research. It will probably not come up with something real. You know you still have to go do third-party research. It will probably not come up with something real, you know you still have to go validate. You know I always ask if I do do that, I ask for a link and then I go validate whether the link exists and whether that research chat is there and if it's, you know, within the timeframe of being usable, if it's less than two years. But and I don't think it does a great job in some other aspects and I don't think it does a great job in some other aspects, like I've also fed it transcripts and still had to make up quotes even though I gave it the transcripts and said don't make up any quotes, use them directly from here.
Speaker 2:I will, you know, refine it if it needs it, and it you know. So you do have to be careful, but there are a lot of ways that it can be used to increase productivity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's exactly my experience as well. I did exactly the same thing to me with the quotes as well. I'm like is this from the actual transcript? No, it's not. I made it up. Yeah and yeah, of course, double checking that as well. Coming back to content marketing again, what are the biggest mistakes you've seen companies make when it comes to content marketing?
Speaker 2:the biggest mistakes you've seen companies make when it comes to content marketing. Yeah, I think you know one of them is really just that idea that the quantity over quality. You know I've even seen you know like when you're talking about just getting traffic. You know, I've seen companies where I was kind of like well I don't, you know, their SEO plan is just to get people on high topics, but I'm like I'd rather have less people come into my website and I think most brands this is true that are actually going to be buyers than luring them in with topics and content that aren't really what they actually.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, like I had one where I saw they were doing supply chain management but they didn't actually sell any supply chain management software.
Speaker 2:They had an adjacent software and I was like somebody is looking for supply chain management software, is it going to land on your site and then suddenly want to buy your software? Like you know, you'd be much better served again, kind of going to that middle of the funnel content that buyers said they wanted and just sticking with what you know, your narrow niche than trying to get people way up here in the funnel that will have adjacent needs because you do do something in the supply chain you know like. So I think that that's an important piece is just kind of track chasing traffic I think is a mistake that a lot of folks make where you'd be better off really focusing, like you said, abm or just that, or even just creating quantity of more generic content versus investing in a few maybe more expensive, more resource intensive but quality pieces that will actually just get more engagement than all of those. You know other pieces that were all generic but you had more of them out there. So those would be some of the biggest mistakes that I see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's actually a really good point. I just remember there's some companies I've seen that they're really just trying to jump on the next trending topic and tie it back to something like supply chain management software. So yeah, you kind of get the wrong traffic in that regard, but unfortunately, I think traffic is how a lot of companies measure success. On the topic of measurement, what do you think are maybe some of the metrics that we should be looking at when it comes to content?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is always challenging. I'm not going to say I have all the answers, because I think every marketer would say attribution is really challenging in general and you never know which pieces of content are really doing what in the funnel, the way buyers journeys are these days. But it is also one of the reasons that I expanded into original research, because I felt like it allowed me one. I think it does generate a higher ROI for my clients and it allowed my clients and myself to better track it, and one of those is because I think it does really well.
Speaker 2:Brand awareness is one, and the one way to track brand awareness is media mentions, pr mentions, and journalists are typically much more interested in a like a survey based or original research, quite frankly, because, just like everybody else, they're trying to publish something new and interesting, and so you have it. So that's one way that my clients and I track kind of how engagement lead gen would be another one. Again, you know, I know, gated or not gated is controversial sometimes, but I do think as this, as my research showed, that when you invest in this kind of original research, it is one of the few types of content that I think justifies asking for personal emails and data and one of the few types that people will give that up for. So but then you. That's another way to track engagement shares, shares, obviously, social shares on posts and things like that. Even if you're driving, even if the post isn't the article or the piece of content, if you're sharing a piece from it on social, seeing how that engages I think helps tell you how you've done it.
Speaker 2:But the other way I think that it's important to also track your ROIs.
Speaker 2:Think about the different ways you can use one piece of content, for example again kind of going back to, if you do this kind of cornerstone research report, it's you know, you can run webinars off it and you can attract, you know, certainly track your webinar attendance. You can look at like how many pieces, like how is it being used in sales enablement, how is your sales team be able to use it, and then you can also use it. I've had a lot of companies where they've had a lot of success with their executives using the data to get speaking engagements, and sometimes they weren't even able to get speaking engagements at these certain trade shows or events previously, but once they had researched they were able to get those are. That's a little more out of the box, but it actually is another kind of brand awareness lead gen um piece of the funnel when you've got your executives out there at these trade shows and industry um conferences presenting the data that you guys have collected yeah, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:is there any research on like in-person events, conferences, trade shows, you know again coming together? I think webinars kind of went a little bit exhausting after a while, with COVID happening, are you finding that people are now getting drawn back into in-person events?
Speaker 2:I don't have any specific. I mean, I'm sure the research is out there. I didn't do it, but I'm sure there's research out there on how each of those is trending right at this moment. I do know just from my own experience with a lot of clients that that a lot of them have jumped back into the live events and have seen good results. So I yeah, I do agree with you that I think there is kind of a webinar, online fatigue and a desire to have a little more human connection.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. No, I'm definitely seeing the same kind of numbers as well. I think you know webinar registrations versus webinar attendance. That percentage used to be much higher pre-COVID days. Now it's like 30 to 40 percent will turn up to the webinar and the rest just kind of go. Yeah, get send me the recording afterwards. Um, where can people listening get their hands on on your research? How can they go about finding?
Speaker 2:it. Yeah, um, it is on my website. Um, there's a button right at the top that they can click to download my research if they're interested in, and that's wwwredpointcontentcom. And I'm also on LinkedIn, and so people are welcome to connect with me there. I'm happy to share the report that way as well.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thank you, I think, yeah, I think that would be really insightful. I'd love to take a deeper look at it. Becky, my last question to you it's a question I ask every guest is if you could go back in time, what advice would you give to your younger self? How would you do things differently?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the biggest things I've learned and this may be just running my own business more than anything is how much my mindset influences my success. I don't think I thought that as a younger teen or young adult I think I always thought things were like oh, that just seems out of you know, I don't think I could achieve that, I'm not going to try for that. But what I found is that when my mindset says I'm going to do something, I've really seen the momentum and success in it. So I've really. I mean, I'm not a woo woo person, I'm actually pretty practical, but I actually think there's something to the whole mindset thing.
Speaker 1:I love that Absolutely. It's so true. It's so true, I think, if you believe you can do it, if you can manifest it, I believe in all that stuff and, at the same time, I'm also into the science and the tech side of things. So, no, I couldn't agree more with you. I think mindset makes a huge difference, thank you. Thank you so much for being on the show. I think we've all learned some really insightful things around content. I'm sure a lot of people will be jumping into original research rather than, you know, doing the generic AI blog of the day. So thank you so much for all the knowledge that you've given us today. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was great to be on. Thank you.
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