Roofing Success
The Roofing Success Podcast is a show created to inspire roofing contractors to achieve optimal success in their roofing businesses. The host, Jim Ahlin, is the co-author of the book, "Internet Marketing For Roofing Contractors, How to TRIPLE Your Sales and Turn Your Roofing Website Into an Online Lead Generation Machine", and Co-Founder of Roofer Marketers, the Digital Marketing Agency for the roofing industry. On each episode, Jim will be sitting down with industry leaders to talk about their processes, the lessons they learned, and how to find success in roofing.
Roofing Success
How a 26-Year-Old Grew a Multi-Million Dollar Roofing Business in 3 Years with Ian Smith
What does it take to grow a roofing business from scratch to millions in revenue in just three years? Ian Smith of Omega Exteriors shares his journey of grit, resilience, and strategic thinking. Starting at 23, Ian overcame personal loss, financial setbacks, and the challenges of youth to build a thriving company.
In this episode, Ian reveals:
- The mindset that fueled his success at a young age.
- How he recruited and empowered a winning team.
- The importance of mentorship, continuous learning, and company culture.
- How to adapt and grow even in a tough market.
Whether you’re a startup owner, a sales leader, or a roofing pro looking to scale, Ian’s insights will inspire you to think bigger and work smarter.
🔗 https://www.omega-exteriors.com
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How do you turn a business started at 23 into a multi-million dollar operation in just three years, and how do you do it while overcoming personal loss and financial setbacks? Today we're sitting down with Ian Smith of Omega Exteriors to hear his incredible journey from selling newspaper subscriptions to building a booming roofing company. Paper subscriptions to building a booming roofing company. Ian's story is about grit, resilience and a relentless commitment to mastering his craft. Ian founded Omega Exteriors at the young age of 23, and now his team generates millions in revenue. His passion for knowledge and relationships has been the key to his success and it's what makes his story so unique. But Ian's journey is also deeply personal. Growing up with little, losing his father and having to depend on himself for success shaped the leader he is today.
Speaker 1:In this episode you'll learn why asking the right questions matters, how Ian built a culture of continuous learning and the importance of perseverance. Let's dive in with Ian Smith. Welcome to the Roofing Success Podcast. I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here to bring you insights from top leaders in the roofing industry to help you grow and scale your roofing business. Ian Smith with Omega Exteriors How's it going today, man?
Speaker 2:Good man. Thanks for having me on, jim.
Speaker 1:Another Minnesota boy yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's fun to have the local crew on. You have been, I'll have to say, man. You've really made a splash on the scene in the Twin Cities here over the last couple of years, seen in the in the Twin Cities here over the last couple of years. I started hearing about you from from my friend, alex Buecher, who I had on the podcast, and from John Cenac, and just with with great praise, right Like man. Have you seen? Have you seen Omega? Have you come across Ian yet? Cause we're both in the Twin Cities area and I'm like I started seeing those trucks around.
Speaker 2:What's going on?
Speaker 1:Like what's up with Ian, right? And so I wanted to have you on and glad that we could get some time to do this, you know, for the audience. You know, give us a little bit about your story, man. How'd you get into roofing and get Omega started?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean I'm 26 years old. I've owned Omega now for three years, so I started when I was 23 years old. I've been in the roofing industry going on seven years now. My background is when I was 16 years old I was selling newspaper subscriptions in grocery stores for the Pioneer Press and made decent money doing that and learned sales at a young age. Then I heard about the opportunity in roofing about seven years ago and heard this promise that you could absolutely crush it, and it turned out to be a little false. But then a little hard work and a little elbow grease got me to move to Omaha, nebraska, and I've worked in nine states 10 states all around the country and decide after four and a half years it was time to move back home, work for a company up here for a year and got nothing but good things to say about them. And then now I'm here in Minnesota doing my own thing.
Speaker 1:So when do you think that entrepreneurial bug has come from for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because if you were, were.
Speaker 1:You know, I was the same way man. I had the paper route. At 11 years old I was selling candy door to door by by the time I was 12. Like I, I've always just gone out and done stuff like that. Where do you think that comes from for you?
Speaker 2:yeah. So for me I would definitely equate to like growing up broke, uh, growing up poor. So, um, you know it's, uh, it's very humbling. It teaches you a lot.
Speaker 2:You know, if I wanted like extra things in life, at 10 years old I was going around the neighborhood asking if I mowed people's lawns and then kind of put that buzz in me and then my dad was sick most of my life, where there wasn't really an income there and it was kind of solely reliant on my mom and with me. When I lost my dad about a year and a half in the industry, I sucked my first year but then it was put up or shut up time. I didn't have a support system and while it was one of the hardest things I ever went through, it was one of the best things that ever happened to me because I only could rely on myself. And then a lot of good people surrounded me people like John, people like Chris, like my brother being a building official. Like you know. There's a lot of really good people that have impacted my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah that there's something to that. Like there's something to. There's definitely something to like having to do it versus choosing to do it Right, like there, there's a different type of motivation. I, I, I, uh, I was watching a I think it was a podcast recently and they were talking about a study that was done about people who are successful and there's a relationship with childhood trauma and success. And I was like, man, do I, am I supposed to screw my kids up? Like, what do I got to do here?
Speaker 1:Right Like what do I got to do? Cause I, you know, my, my kids are man. This is too easy for them. I'm, you know, like you know, but I think there's a lot of those challenges, man, and that's, but I think there's a lot of those challenges, man, and those challenges having to overcome those challenges it really builds character and it really we always find a way when there is no other way. I promise you, like human beings, do that right. When there is no other way, we find a way. And so I mean, you started young. So when did you start selling roofs? At about what?
Speaker 2:19?, yep 19 years old.
Speaker 1:Did I do the math right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, out of Omaha, nebraska, for a really large company. But I was part of a company there was over 100 people and only three people knew roofing. So very little training, kind of had to do everything on my own. And then I learned a lot through him. My first year, like I just, yeah, I went from a high-paying job being newspapers to go and make it only 44 000 my first year and I kind of called buddies, tell me like yeah, stick with it. Um, and showed me what was kind of possible, because they said I could definitely do it. But I was just going to be lying in the wrong direction. And the following years when everything kind of happened and multi-million dollar producer, multi-million dollar producer change.
Speaker 1:What was the change there? Like you know, I mean, it sounds like and with a lot of things right, you got to get your footing. You have to, you know, you have to kind of start to understand it. What do you think the? What do you think the? If you could pinpoint one or two or three things that were like hey, I changed this, that and the other thing and all of us, and that went from making $44,000 to $100,000, a couple hundred thousand, whatever you made that year.
Speaker 2:I would definitely say it came to the, I mean when I would go to all these places. When I worked in nine states I didn't really have any friends in any of these areas and so I had to go create opportunities for myself, whether it was like, whether it was friendships, relationships, whether it was going and meeting customers Like I had nothing else to do, like I just wanted it more than anyone else and I was willing to go work hard for it. Then the day, like the one of the reasons why I think I've gotten any side of like success or anything like that, is because I've messed up more than just money. You know, my first hundred thousand dollar job I ever did, where I'm expecting to go make I mean 15, 20 grand on, I went 5,000 negative on you know cause it was all these what I thought were steel buildings and they were all tin and I put steel on and somehow the company just didn't manage it and all that kind of stuff, and me being 19, I go five thousand negative on it.
Speaker 2:And then I get I'm going over the call with my accountant at the time and my mom calls me once, I don't answer it. She calls me twice, I don't answer it, she calls me twice. I say I got answers. I got a call that not only did I just lose five grand, I lost my dad in that moment, and then I had another bad thing happen, and so three things just hit me all at once. And then I went back to Minnesota. Three days later I drove all the way back down to Omaha. I'm like I got to go work, I got to go make something happen, and it was just like this thing just clicked.
Speaker 1:So it was just a switch. It was like I mean, maybe there was a little bit of and I'm just reading into it a little, but like almost a little bit of the work helped you through the grief.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, or like fight or flight. You know, I'd say that as a sink or swim yeah so yeah, it was definitely.
Speaker 1:But yeah, that's something and and I know for a lot of people like man I I was I was really uh confident at in my in my late teens and early 20s and things like that. I didn't realize how young I looked. Did you ever experience that?
Speaker 1:like at the door they're like what do you? Why do you? Why? And early 20s and things like that. I didn't realize how young I looked. Did you ever experience that Like at the door? They're like what are you? Why do you? Why is a baby knocking on my door Like what are you? What are you in high school, junior high, what did like? So I'm sure that there was some overcoming of that too. How have you overcome the kind of the stigma of youth as you've, as you, as you entered the roofing industry, found some success on the sales side and then started your own company?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think that's like a really good question. So I would say, like when I first started you know it was it was a big hurdle, Like I didn't know what I was talking about. I didn't know what I was doing, I just knew I needed to work and so what I did was I grew a goatee. Like was not a good look, Don't recommend it.
Speaker 2:But you know, in the moment it gave me at least a little bit of confidence. And then, just like I think confidence is one of the biggest things, like you know, fake it till you make it. I get that. But like the next thing, that kind of like transfer that over, like once I had the confidence down, was I just wanted to be more knowledgeable than just about anyone and that's one reason why me, me and John seen accurate a lot, and Chris, and like brother, like I want to know all the codes.
Speaker 2:I want to know exactly like that value metals, 29 gauge steel, and you know it's like something that like how do you combat certain different things, that or that, what is the tensile strength of each shingle, or all that kind of stuff. I think it's like really good knowledge. And when I can say those kind of things, I'm presenting myself as the expert and I flip the script. And at that point it doesn't matter the age, and it's definitely something I've had to learn with my business, because when I'm 23 years old hiring people that are twice my age, you know it makes a difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love what you said there, so to me I'm going to summarize it or paraphrase it a little bit is that knowledge brought confidence? Yep, Absolutely Right, and so I think that's a key point to make you know, a lot of times, when we're starting out stuff, we have this enthusiasm but we have no knowledge right, we're ready.
Speaker 1:We're willing to just go. And then, as we go along, the more you learn, the more you know, the higher your level of knowledge gets. The way that I like to explain it, ian, I've said this. One of my Jim-isms I guess you'd call it is I want to keep I always, and this is how I've lived my life. Is I want to keep I always, and this is how I've lived my life. I always want to keep my knowledge level above my income level, Right, and so I want to look at my bank account and go I'm way smarter than that dollar amount. Right, and and and. But if I, if I don't keep focused on, on, on continuously improving and gaining more knowledge, man, that thing's going to level out, and you know, or go the other way, right, and so I think that's great advice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was, what were some of the steps that you took to go out and build that knowledge? Like how did you go, you know? Did you sit down with manufacturer reps? Or did like who'd you? Where did you get that? Where did you go and seek that knowledge from? And how did you, you know, how did you? How did you take that in?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I would say the biggest thing that I'd do is I would just start reading, like the installation guidelines for things you know. I mean about as rudimentary as you possibly get. But I think it's so cool how we grow up in a day and age where we have you two, we have the single greatest like um wealth builder that's ever been imaginable. If you want to learn how to change a transmission, you can go learn how to change a transmission in about two hours on YouTube. Or if you want to go learn how to sell roofs, or if you want to understand what the most common roofing problems are, you just go Google it.
Speaker 2:And I think that's one of the coolest things. That's why, when you go into something new new like windows you gotta start somewhere. You know whether it's like um selling your first job, whether it's going to work for someone else, but I think, uh, two options like youtube, or go and find someone who has what you want, go do what they do, say what they say, and eventually they'll have what they have. Um, yeah, and you just gotta find someone willing to mentor you and take them under your wing, which I'm very grateful to have Chris Zimmerman as my mentor and then also Adam Patterson Like they're just incredible people. They're great leaders, they lead with a Christian faith which is really important for me, and I can't say enough but incredible things to help me keep learning.
Speaker 1:How do you think you developed those relationships? Because I encourage this a lot, like there are so many people in this industry willing to share. Right before we got on camera, you were like, hey, are you going to RoofCon this year or you know, going to this conference or that conference? And I'm like man, I tell people all the time that sometimes at those conferences, the conversation you have at the lunch table, when you just sit down with someone you don't know, might be more impactful than the person that's on stage. Absolutely, and those relationships, and I truly believe that there are so many people out there that are willing to share, even with people in their markets.
Speaker 1:Right, I know guys in San Antonio that meet. There's a group of guys in San Antonio or owners that meet that are all competitors and they all share ideas and have conversations. There's a group in Pittsburgh that anytime they're all the GAF guys in Pittsburgh. You know who you are. When you're at the GAF Wealth Builders event, they're hanging out, they're talking, they're sharing their stories, they're giving this information. What advice would you have to people about building those relationships?
Speaker 2:I would say this is probably my top two greatest skill sets is going to be being able to create relationships with people. One, because I'm a big listener, I want to know, I want to learn, and one of the biggest things that happened for me in my life was up until eighth grade. I didn't have any friends in my life, not because I didn't want I couldn't get them, just because I didn't want them, because I felt like too many people would ask questions where they just wanted to say, hey, what'd you do this weekend? And they would basically go over like, well, this is what I did this weekend. This is why it's so much better and this is why it's so much better. And so I've just never been that kind of person.
Speaker 2:I generally want to get to know people, but how I create all these relationships a great example is I brought my buddy, russ he's been doing this 15 years owner operator. We went to IRE together and I said, russ, I just want you to watch one thing I do here and it's like watch how many questions I ask you know, because, like, I generally want to know the answer to, but people are willing to share, just like you just said. But I just want to ask more questions Anyone like. Anytime John has class, anytime Tim Johnson is speaking, anytime I have an opportunity to go to something like this, I want to sit front row.
Speaker 2:If I have an opportunity to ask questions, I'm always one of those first people to do it. But I'm just very intentional with me and those people and trying to pick their brain because I'm 26. I have so much to learn. You know I have a lot to offer, but like I have so much to learn, I would say that that's the greatest thing piece of advice I give. This whole thing is don't be afraid to ask questions, because it could lead you down a path you didn't see possible.
Speaker 1:Bad questions are the most powerful thing, you know. I think that a lot of people start in this business. A lot of people start in the sales side. Right, if you're on the production side, that's great too. It's a lot of asking good questions is great. They're also on the sales side, specifically Sale. I teach my nine-year-old boys this. Right, I have nine-year-old boys this. I have nine-year-old twin boys. I teach them. If you ask my boys what is sales, they will tell you asking good questions Yep, it's awesome, that's the response. And you want to develop that skill set of asking good questions? 100%. There's always the. You know people get a little afraid. Well, I don't want to ask a dumb question, yep.
Speaker 1:Like ask the question man Like if you need the knowledge, ask the question. You'll never have the knowledge if you don't ask the question. Going to these events, taking the time like I think you're a little bit nerdy for reading the manual You're taking it to another level there, but you know installation manuals on stuff. But those are the things, man like. Those are those extra things that you can do to really get impactful. But learning how to ask good questions, have you been like is this something that you've just been all your life? I actually did.
Speaker 1:Here's something I had ChatGPT interview me for my podcast. It just came out and Chat asked me how I started. Chatgpt asked me how I started the podcast. It was one of the questions that asked me and I was like, well, I was at an event and I was talking to a guy and he was like he told me you should start a podcast and I said why do you think that? And he was like because you're always asking questions. Yeah, like you're just always. You're so inquisitive and I think that skill set, man, it's a for people out listening.
Speaker 1:Ask questions, right. Ask adjusters questions, ask your questions, ask your accountant questions, ask, ask everyone you can questions and dig in and get that understanding, you'll be much farther along. I want to commend you and of course the journey's not over. And I want because I know people get a little funny about this sometimes about, like you know, the top line numbers and how people's success and things like that, and so I'll throw out there that your journey's not over, it's just starting, but you've had a great start to this journey. I don't know if you're willing to share, but like what was you know from a revenue standpoint? You know you had a heck of a first year, yep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:And a better second year and now even a better third year. Right like it. What? How did you? How did you? Start off with a multi-million dollar, but you know, if you don't mind me saying that, a multi-million dollar first year in business yeah, I would say it's probably two or three things.
Speaker 2:You know the um. So a little bit about my background Omega, everything like that. Our first year we did six and a half million. Average revenue company is two to three, like you know. Our second year we did 10.5 million, which was last year, and this year we're already about eight. We'll probably finish about 13 with everything on the books right now Well, actually we're about nine, but we'll finish about right around 12 to 13, right in that range. And so we're constantly growing, especially um when, even when we're having a down year this year with less storms, um got to do a lot more retail, a lot of things like that, upgrades um.
Speaker 2:But the biggest thing I think that I had, with success and like right off the ground, was um, I just never thought I was going to be a great recruiter. I just never thought I had that skill set. I was really nervous about it and it ended up being one of the things I'm absolutely best at. Or if I had to say the top two things, it would definitely be asking questions. Second thing is recruiting people, because I lead from the front and I want to go out in the field. I want to go tell people, hey, work on this or try this, or if they have a different idea, I'm going to take it. I want it to. If it's going to better them, it's going to better me. Like I am not too ignorant to know that, like I can learn from a guy who just started because they might pick up on something I just didn't realize or didn't know. I'm always learning. And then I would also say, just like I'm just really big on giving back to my people, I'm just really big on, like, always doing the right thing. Like there's several times where I've lost money with raps, or I took a chance, or I took a risk, that believing in someone that doesn't always work out, but I wouldn't have it any other way for the reason being that I just I want everyone to, no matter what, to leave my company or stay with my company and say nothing but good things, because that's what matters to me most. It's not about making a dollar, that's not why I'm in this industry.
Speaker 2:And the third thing that I think makes made Omega have the success it did is, I think there's three types of owners in this industry. There's someone who's really good at sales. There's someone who's really good at production and there's someone who's really good at business and so this is actually my second business. I used to actually own the newspaper kiosk company. I did pretty good.
Speaker 2:I had about eight or nine guys working for me when I was 19. I had a 0.74 GPA leaving college and what happened was I just I got in the industry not knowing a whole lot, asked a bunch of questions and then, by leading from the front, I just saw the best kind of results I possibly could ask for. And I still knock doors. I'll still go out in the field with the guys, I'll go on adjustments, I'll help do estimates and one of my biggest challenges has had to be delegating, which I've been learning, and Adam's been helping me a lot, chris has been helping me a lot, um, and because of that the business keeps on being fruitful and will be for years to come.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. I think that one of the things that that that owners don't realize when they're getting started or even along the way, a lot of times it's of times it's not, it's not 100 clear, but you're a business is people, and so having a skill set in hiring is probably the number one skill set for for success. Yeah, right, like if you hire the best people, or can attract the best people, or or not the maybe not even the best people, but great people, we'll just say great people, not even the best. If you can attract great people that work together well and all, all are willing to walk the same path and and and you know march together and you know march together, that's it, man. That's the thing. Having hired as a teenager probably had some lessons there, right, absolutely. But now let's talk about that a little bit more. What are your thoughts on recruiting? Like first, like just your broad thoughts, how do you attract the right people to Omega?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I can probably elaborate quite a bit on this. So my first year, I mean, I was able to recruit 15 people. You know A lot of people like. Some people stayed, some people wanted to go be a justice, people wanted to do something completely different people, you know a lot of people like that. Some people stayed, some people wanted to go be adjusted, people wanted to do something completely different.
Speaker 2:You know, um, but then the day, like it's always being able to adapt, like around it, because, like you never know when someone's either gonna get a burnt out or or or be going to be a killer when you never thought it could be possible, I hire based on culture. So whether or not I think someone's a good person or not culture, so whether or not I think someone's a good person or not, I can't tell you a single time that I've ever let someone go where there was lack of effort. I'm willing to work on that kind of thing, but if they have a bad attitude, they're bad for culture. I have to make those hard decisions, even if they're a friend of mine, which I've been tested a couple of times with but I'm not willing to take that sacrifice where it could ruin the rest of the culture and I would say that's probably the biggest thing.
Speaker 2:But in terms of finding people doing all those kind of things, I found when you're a good person, you put yourself in the right situations, you go out and try to do things the right way, adjusters will recruit for you, sales reps will recruit for you, and then just also your network. I mean success leaves clues and people are willing to reach out. That I know I never saw coming. And then one of my favorite things ever is just giving a guy a call who's making $17 an hour before and then tell him like hey, man, you just made a hundred K for the first time in your life, or you just made a life changing amount of money, or you remember that goal we set. Well, you, now you can go do it Like. That's just the coolest thing to me and that's my why.
Speaker 1:And if you look at like Simon Sinek, like if you find the why and work from there, like I know my why and it's empowering other people and giving people like a home and so, yeah, that's awesome. What do you do? What's your process of determining if they're a culture fit or not?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say one, whether or not they're ethical so whether or not I could see them lying or not, someone if I hand them my wallet that I know I'm getting it back I would say I'm looking for someone with a positive attitude, not someone if I put them in a tough situation, if they're going to complain or complain to other people. That's not the kind of person I want. I want someone to say all right, I was in this tough situation. How do I learn from it? I'm looking for someone who's also asking questions. It can be annoying some days, you know, when I get questions from 30 people, it can be a lot, but at the same time, like I would much rather have them ask those questions and I'm willing to put that time in those people because I know it's going to help them and I know at some point they're going to be self-sufficient and that's where you delegate leaders.
Speaker 1:That's where growth comes. That's that's where growth comes from. You know, to make sure that they're that fit, or is it okay, I'll bring you in and you know, we're going to go out today door knocking and I'm going to kind of feel you out how, what, what's your process?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say it's going to be three things. So one I want to see whether or not I usually don't go for people in the roofing industry. I, I, I'm not a huge fan of it, and the reason being is, um, they're not willing to listen to a 26 year old, Even if I had had any bit of success. You know, it's just like. I'm just, yeah, I'm not a huge fan of someone who thinks they're, they're too good to learn, Cause I know I'm not. You can, you can critique me all day. You could work for me and like let's work on, let's come up with a solution. I'm a big solution person Uh, drives my girlfriend crazy sometimes Cause you know emotions, emotion, you know, but at the same time, a solution, I would say. Another thing I'm looking for is I'm looking for someone.
Speaker 2:If they do come from the roof industry, are they going to bad mouth their previous company? Were they in a bad situation? Or are they going to say this poor me story that you know a lot of people have? Sometimes it really is like a bad situation. I know who those companies are. That does make a difference, but you know, at the end of the day, like if they bring it up. I know I'm not speaking on it. It's like I'm just trying to test to see what they're going to say, uh, and see how it made them feel, because there's a good chance if they're talking bad about another company. What are they going to do when they leave my company in the future, if they leave my company? And so yeah, I'm just not willing to take those culture risks because I'd rather have plotters. I'd rather have guys that do $500 million than guys that go do $2, $3 million. I would rather fire the person doing that much than have it ruin my culture. So money's not worth it to me.
Speaker 1:Definitely. What have you done to define your culture for me? What do you? You know what is your culture and how did you, how did you create it and how do you keep it going?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say people that are willing to help each other, whether they have skin in the game or not. I think that's really important. You know cause we? There's so many different situations where, let's say, for example, you take off siding and there's um, some household house insulation on there, like interior insulation, and the adjuster will be like, well, you know, that's, that's uh, one inch fan, I mean one inch fan fold. Uh, we're only gonna pay for the one side. Well, how do we get to the finish line? First of all, like that, that siding it's, if it that interior insulation ever gets wet, it ruins everything else else. It's also one inch Fan folds, three eighths to five eighths, and so that's not going to be a waterproofing envelope because there's no water tightness. So if we have to replace one side, we have to replace the rest. And when one person I teach them how to go through it, I just get so empowered by seeing well, hey guys, what do I do here? And then one of my guys already goes running to them like hey guys, what do I do here? And then one of my guys already goes running to him like, hey, this is what we did last time, here's what worked. Or what do we do if we got to replace half a slow blow of wood shake? What's the break factor? A lot of those different things. These people are more than willing to help each other.
Speaker 2:And the other thing with culture, too, is I like to set incentive goals. This month, I did something where, if anyone hits $150,000 in sales, we're going to go to Colorado For three days. We're going to go fishing in the mountains. It'll be a good time. We have a sales goal. If you hit $650,000, you get to go to Jamaica empowering to see those people.
Speaker 2:And, um, I really do invest a lot in my staff too, because, like, it's really tough when all these sales guys are constantly getting all the perks, the awards, everything like that, because without sales, there's there's no company, um, but then what I do is I'll bring them jamaica too, because, like, that's an added bonus and it's quite expensive, but like, then they go tell their friends about how awesome their boss is, because, like, that's that is my goal, because I truly like every single person that works with me, um, and I want them to have something that they're proud to post on facebook, that they're proud to be a part of, and, um, I want to invest in them yeah, I think that's a big thing, and I was.
Speaker 1:It was kind of funny. You went there because I was going to ask you about that. Like it is funny how the I mean, not, it's not funny. It's a part of sales that, like that is a driver of sales, right, the, the trips, the, the reward, the all of that. But there's this other part of the company that the support, the, the, the support of those sales people also need to be rewarded and and that's a great thing and and I think that that's that's a big thing. I talk about it in turn, cause I'm, you know, I'm a marketer, so I talk about it in terms of, like, you're marketing to your people to be employees at your company and stay employees at your company, and then what you're doing for them and with them is marketing to other people to attract them to be employees of your company too.
Speaker 1:Right Like it, it goes together so well and when, when you're doing that, you're really creating the right environment and people that want to stay with you a long time. People that there there's a there's a question. It's question that gets asked is would you leave it's for employee NPS scores, enps scores? There's always a question on that. If you survey your team and it's, would you leave your job for another company at a 10% raise or not? That's a good indication of the culture, right? Good indication of of the culture, right, like, if they'll take that 10% and go quick, you like there's there, you're missing some things on that day-to-day basis. That that, that, that that stuff that keeps them around more. There were, I think it was a study by Google. Um, it might've been by Google, but there there was a study that was done that it was like 85% of people said that they wouldn't take that job for 10% more if they had a friend at the company. Oh, yeah, right, yeah, has your team become friends? Are they like? And how do you encourage that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say most people have. You know. Um, when it comes to, I guess, the culture or anything like that, it's a good and bad thing. Like, if you look at, like mackie valley, is it better to be feared or better to be loved? You know, I get the whole, whole premise of the book is going to be to be feared but, I would argue, to be loved. It's like you know every single person, my company, I'm friends with every single person I see very highly of. I can't say anything bad about a single one of them and that's created a really good culture. But what I would also say is, when you believe in people, when you try to do team bonding events, when you try to do group learning sessions, go out in the field together, do all those kind of things, a lot of times you find people that want to succeed together, want to win together.
Speaker 2:And if you look at the top four things why people leave a company usually money is about four on that list Usually it's going to be culture is going to be number one. Usually it's going to be whether or not someone promised you something and didn't didn't pay it, whether it was a bonus, whether it was an incentive, uh, whether it was whatever it was, um. Third thing's going to be usually like um if it's poorly ran, um, and like they don't have the support, um, but money's usually about four on that list, it's not usually the top one, uh, and people would rather choose a culture that is inducive to like winning or to being a family than I would say money Grant. I think I pay pretty darn well, but you know, I think those things go together pretty good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that if you take care of that part first, then and encourage the financial success, right, that that helps a lot, right, that helps a lot, right, that really helps a lot. So what have you and I know in the past we've talked, you know we chatted it was a week or so ago and you talked about wanting one of the most fulfilling things to you was helping people succeed financially. Absolutely Right, yeah, and so you know. Finance it might be number four on the list, but it is so impactful in people's lives to have them reach a place financially where they can buy a home, do things save for and, you know, I guess, being better off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, what I would probably say to that is going to be like whether it's going to be bringing a financial advisor, brings a realtor and how to buy a home. Like, I want these guys to not just learn stuff about roofing, you know, and siding windows, gutters. I want them to learn about like life skills because, like one of the things that I do for hurting is, the average age of my company is probably about 26 27 years old. You know, I want the young guys, I want people that didn't have someone show them how to do a lot of things and while I may not have all the answers, I know a lot of people that do um, and so I'm willing to bring those people in. Like, we just had dan Walrick uh, come in the other day and he's going over like end of season burnout. He's going over things like how to um, win, um, uh, basically at a high level for x amount of years and right before this call, I mean I was on Dan's call for 30 minutes and still just ended probably about 20, 10 minutes ago, because I want to keep learning too on that kind of thing. Him and Deshaun were doing a great job. But I want to give these guys opportunities to go put them in a better place.
Speaker 2:And when it comes to hiring them, I ask them always the same couple questions. It's going to be what's important to you, what do you want to see change in the next 12 months? What do you want to see change in the next five years? And then by doing that, I can create that goal. Like, I sat down with the guy and he said, well, to help homeowners. Like all right.
Speaker 2:Well, russell, this is not about like all right, what's going to help you help homeowners right now. This is about like, what's your financial goals to be able to do it? How can I help you get there? Granted, helping homeowners is the focal point of the company. But, like I'm, I'm solely focused on you right now, and so being able to do that and I know we're gonna be able to hit those goals, it's exciting, it's fulfilling, and I have like a um, an album, my phone, where it's just nice messages from reps I literally just screenshot every single time I get something like eating changed my life, or here's this cool opportunity that, um, you, you help me, uh, create. So I I'd love that and it's fulfilling to me I love those questions.
Speaker 1:I want to know some of the best answers or that you've gotten when you ask those questions like what were some of the ones that you were like man, that's, that's something yeah, I, I want to go take off to, um, uh, the dominican republic or columbia for three months, you know.
Speaker 2:And so, giving them the freedom to be able to do that kind of thing, I'm perfectly willing to help support that goal and put together a plan, cause, like I don't do anything in life without like writing down exactly what my goals are every single year and what couple of things and factors are going to help me achieve them, and so, and then another one's going to be like I just really want like a TRX. I'm like, well, let's not think about financially, I just don't think it's a good idea. I'll coach them through that, and they still want to do it. At that point, that's up to them, you know.
Speaker 1:Why not a TRX?
Speaker 2:It's such a great idea.
Speaker 1:It's going to be worth half of what you buy it for in two years.
Speaker 2:So a lot of it's just like coaching through that kind of stuff Because, like I think, one thing I do really good is, like you know, I'm not flashy with anything. I don't need a whole lot. I'm pretty simple. I mean, I bought a used car and it was under 20 grand, you know, but that's just me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome man and that's an example. Right, there is a leading by example and I think that in your future it may become more challenging to live as frugally if you continue to find success at the level you are and it's a challenging thing there's a time where you go, wow, I can really, I can really buy that new boat. You know, you know there's a couple of guys in the, you know, like I don't know if you know Tony Flatham from build strong like, but I, you know he has a real nice boat out on the St Croix right, like he has. You know he has some, some, some very nice cars. But I think that so there's a.
Speaker 1:There may be a transfer. Like there's two sides to that coin. Right In the beginning you want to not not show that frugality, but you know, help people understand that you're not in it. You know it's not in it for this. But then there's a point in time where it's actually to be aspirational and I think that's the way Tony does it right, like Tony is, like it's aspirational for his team, that, wow, this is the like that's really attainable.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like that's time for this and hopefully that you can do it in an aspirational way. You know what I mean. Maybe that's a good path for it for people listening. You know, if it's your first year in business and you got three reps and you got a brand new truck and they got, you know, barely getting paid on their jobs, yeah, there's a problem there. You know 100 there's. There's a big problem there. Uh, we didn't have a great storm year in minnesota this year. No, and the the last, the two before that, were phenomenal, absolutely, um and and so you know that always helps in the in the. You know I, I've talked to so many people that man, a good storm gives you that jumpstart. It gives you that that foundation, that baseline. It brings in that, that, that capital to reinvest in the company into the future. How has how has navigating this this year been? What? What challenges were there that you faced and you know, and what did you do to overcome them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say there's quite a bit of challenges that come to it, whether it's knocking old stuff, whether it's on retail or whether it's upgrades, whatever it is, but the biggest thing is making sure that I'm supporting my guys every way possible to be able to get out there, be able to whether it's going out knocking with them, whether it's creating that leadership and I've had two really awesome leaders and a great production team just absolutely really make an impact this year, something that I needed. That structure and that kind of a boost to my company that's really motivated. Guys like yep, I'm in the right place Like this can be so awesome. We get a good storm here, but I love non-storm meters a boost to my company. That's really motivated. Guys like yep, I'm in the right place like this can be so awesome. We get a good storm here, but I love non-storm meters. Grand, this is the first time I've experienced it like with my own company.
Speaker 2:I think it's a good thing because, like, I'm just looking forward to a lot of not so great competition to get out. You know, um, I don't mind competition. I think it's a good thing. Um, but you know, there's some good players, there's some bad players, but on all three sides, whether it's adjusting, whether it's our side, whether it's supplementing there there's good and bad with everything. Um, yeah, but yeah, I would say one of the biggest challenges is keeping those guys motivated and I'm willing to throw out some goals to be able to do it do you think you have?
Speaker 1:you have you lost more reps this year because they haven't been able to to, to, to get to the numbers that they wanted to hit? Is there any of those challenges that happen there?
Speaker 2:definitely, is where there's going to. There's definitely some people that man. It was so easy before, like now it's so hard. I don't want to do but like I think one of the things that really helps me and also Charles that works with me it's when I got in the industry I was thrown in Omaha where there hadn't been a storm in a year and a half and I'm knocking all two-year-old stuff. I just go make it happen. The more doors you knock, the more opportunities you get, and one of the biggest things that CJ lives by, which a lot of my guys really like too, is trying to get one more, no, and so trying to be out there and get every opportunity possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a there's a, there's a real missed opportunity in I hear it in the industry all the time from a marketing perspective, all of our. You know when, with Rufa marketers, we would have people that are like I need my marketing out now, like I need my Facebook. You know, a storm hit and if, if I'm not the first person, I'm never going to get any business.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm like I don't know if you have the right mindset.
Speaker 2:I disagree yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I had like other owners on the company like like lisa with uh down in uh florida, she, like her team, will work us like will work a storm for like 12 to 18 months, like they'll work it like they're. They're coming back, they're coming back, they're coming back, they're coming back, they're coming back like they're they. I think the persistence is where the money is. What do you, what do you think about that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I would definitely say like there's a a lot of results come from repetition. Like me, like I've been working the area with I don't know just myself, half inch hail for, you know, three years. The same same town, over and over and over again. A little town of like 3,000 people, 45 minutes south of the cities, and by doing so, when a storm does hit there, all the roofers go to that one area. But somehow I get a lot of the business because I've stayed in that area, I've kept my footprint there.
Speaker 2:I think there is a huge benefit to staying consistent, being in an area and working it and also making sure those homeowners have a positive experience, because they will post you on facebook, they will uh, leave your views. Um, I'm very proud to have the 4.8 stars we do have. You know, not everyone's gonna give you a five star. I've learned that the hard way. I really thought I was gonna be five, five star, five star, five star, but, um, you know, not every experience is perfect. Not every experience is, uh, uh, the same from each perspective. You know, then, the day, like I just try to control everything I can control and, um, try to make sure I'm always doing what's right.
Speaker 1:You have gone out. One of the things that you have done is you've gone out into the small, into smaller towns around Minnesota. How did that come about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say like, uh, one, like one, I've hired people in those areas, you know, because I saw an opportunity. So we are truly local in those areas. Another thing too is, like I mean, I come from work in 10 states. Like I just I've seen opportunities, whether it's in small towns, whether it's in larger cities. You know, I think the biggest thing is just being able to gain the trust of the people within, like that, like what Benzema says quarter mile famous, you know, you just want to be the person everyone calls and be able to keep working it, and I think where so many people miss opportunity is going to be where you do sell a job, whether it's on the outskirts or whether it's in the city.
Speaker 2:You got to keep going back to that neighborhood, gotta keep uh, doing that, your six-pack, every single time. The three in the front, three in the back, um, and so many people are just too lazy. Oh, I've already talked to them. I love talking to them again. It's like, hey, I know you've seen me four times. Are you ready this time? You know, like I, I started a lot of doorknots with, with a joke like, um, I think it's fun. Like, why is everyone gonna brand new roof. But you, you know right, think it's fun, like why is everyone going to?
Speaker 1:brand new roof. But you, you know, right, like it's. And if you gamify it that way, right, it gives there's a, like there's a, you have to have the mindset of going back. But I think you have to have the intention that you understand that you can actually help them. Yeah, absolutely Like it's not, you're not knocking on their door to annoy them, you're knocking on their door to help them. Like there's. Actually, if you, if you understand the intention behind it and you're, and you believe that you are actually helping them, absolutely Like, would you not knock that door. You know, like there's a and it's hard to get through that mindset sometimes, right, but I've noticed, cause I, you know, we, there's a and it's hard to get through that mindset sometimes, right, but I've noticed because I, you know, we have our, our families like place in northern Minnesota small town area. You know, I grew up part of my life in northern Minnesota small town areas. Boy, it's hard to get someone on the phone in those areas, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard to get someone on the phone in those areas. Oh yeah, tough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and I think that there is just an enormous opportunity for someone to expand into those areas. I've had a couple of guys, a couple of contractors on the show, who, who, who, kind of live it. You know, they, they built their businesses in that area. Terry Gualty for one, with integrity, down in Illinois and into, he goes down into Tennessee and Kentucky. There, I mean, his shop is in a town, his main office is in a town with a population of 50. And I don't know, at the time he had like 250 reviews, so like you know, but it was from the surrounding area. You know, the team is traveling a little bit further, right, they may be driving a two-hour radius instead of. But you and me, we both know that the traffic in the Twin Cities it might be two hours from the Southern Metro where you are to, if you got to go up to the Northern Metro, if you got to go through traffic But's, you know. But how do you help your team in those smaller markets?
Speaker 2:you know, bring professionalism to those small towns yeah, I would say there's a couple things I've learned. You know, like when I was in missouri like, um, I talk very proper, a bit, very um, yeah, it's definitely the word proper and so when I went to Missouri I couldn't talk proper. You know, you got to kind of adapt to what you're in. You know, whether it's wearing like similar clothes or whether it's like tucking, like I had one guy tucking his shirt in the country and he's a guy that, like, has basically lived up there all summer. He was up way past Duluth by like Mountain Iron. He was tucking in his shirt and he just wasn't having the same amount of success.
Speaker 2:Like I don't know what it is like trying to tuck your shirt, like I think that was it, and so I don't know, you people want to work with people that remind them of each other. You know, want to be relatable and, um, also, just like making sure that you keep working that same area. That's, yeah, everyone's different. You know, like people in a dynamite are completely different than people in, let's say, like I don't know, northfield, um, but at the same time, like they still have a lot of the same beliefs, the same, a lot of the same ideals and uh, it's kind of like the whole innovator um, um versus like early adapter, kind of thing yeah, there's a, I think you're right.
Speaker 1:There's a I think you're right, like there's a different attitude out there. I was actually, who was I talking to? I think I was talking with Adam, adam Benjamin about this and I was like, yeah, I was up at the lake and you know up there, like if you have, you know it's small town Northern Minnesota, if you have a fancy vehicle like you're going to be looked at in a different way, right, but if you pull up in a truck that's the same price as that fancy vehicle you're going to like there's a, there's a, you know.
Speaker 1:Or if you have a boat that costs more than that Mercedes, you know people, will, you know it's a, it's a weird thing and and, and you know we're talking about people in the kind of in mountain towns of Colorado in that regard too, and it's like the people. You know the culture of the area, right, we talk about company culture, but there's a culture of the area that maybe you have to align to Right, like if you're knocking down in Texas. I just saw a comedian talk about a joke. It was a comedian that moved from California to Texas. He still had California plates and he got pulled over in Texas and you know his rant to the cop was about, you know like, I had to get out of California with all the liberals out there, you know like, and the joke was that the Texas police officer was like oh, you could go, sir, you're good, don't worry about it, right.
Speaker 2:Like you know it's.
Speaker 1:You do have to fit in in a way Right, there's a and adjust to the area. If you're in a, if you're working a higher, higher end neighborhood, there there's a different presentation that you want to have. I had a pretty good, a good analogy one time about you know, if you, you have a different expectation of walking into a McDonald's than walking into a Ruth Chris, right, you can feel the difference in what the, the value, the perceived value in what you're paying for. Right, like, there's a. If you, if you were to eat the same filet mignon, it would be served that in a McDonald's. It wouldn't have the same perceived value as the exact same thing there. So so, adjusting to your environment, that's great advice. Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:What have been the biggest challenges along the way? Price, absolutely yeah. What have been the biggest challenges along the way? Man, going from, you know, going from zero to to to, you know, you know 10, 10, 10 plus, uh, to eight figures. We'll say zero to eight figures and that's a, that's a jump. That's a lot of problems to solve. The way I look at it, right, like there's a lot of problems to solve. What have been the biggest challenges that you've faced and and how have you overcome them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say on the sales rep side, when I first got started, I would say the biggest one's going to be just like being willing to like, go out, like. Where I found the most success was when I went and knocked 29 out of 31 days in a row and that absolutely changed my life. You know, I went and started the company with one100,000 versus $10,000. I've never had a loan. There's no business debt, none of that kind of stuff. Well, I think that's one of the biggest mistakes people do is that they go and try to do it with very little capital. Because if you look at the three people, there's the guy that's good at sales or someone that's good at production. There's always someone that's good at business sales or someone that's good at production. There's always someone that's good at business is, uh, the business leader. You know, let's say, someone like tony flattom. Or if you're looking at like um, even chris zimmerman, like there's someone that understands business and aren't afraid to make hard decisions, um, but then also um, if you hire, have a production person running a company, if the production ever starts failing like that whole tower crumbles, you can't replace that person, they're not gonna be good at the sales side. You can't implement them there. They're probably not going to be a good business owner If you have someone who's just good at sales. Only, there's so much business stuff they just don't understand. Granted, you can find a way to make it work, but people try to grow too fast.
Speaker 2:Um me, when I, when I started, like I knew, like I wanted a good size team so I was willing to save up that money to like be able to start that company that I wanted to do. I didn't want to do it with a small capital, only do a couple roofs Like I do. Like I'm a business owner because I want to empower other people, not because I want to go make a ton of money. The money's the result. It's going to going to happen when you do the right thing, whether you're an owner-operator, whether you're good people. But I thrive off teaching people In terms of things that have been really tough for me, growing is going to be delegating, learning to not wear every single hat. It's something I'm still learning, something I'm still trying to adapt to and something I've gotten significantly better at. I have a great staff who means the world to me and really, yeah, make the world a better place, and that's one thing that really helps.
Speaker 2:Another thing that's really tough is like cash flow. You can't spend it. You know, lucky for me, like I don't need flash things, I don't need flash things, I don't care about it, and so I haven't had as hard of a time with cashflow as I know many people have. Um, because of that, um, collecting is, you know, really important. So that's where I've used SMA services, which is like uh, um, through Hoppin Weber and through Adam Patterson, to be able to um, have someone always falling up on the collections and stuff like that, which is huge Cause, like, if you don't collect that money, it's the longer you wait, the harder it is, and that's something that, like you know, I'm getting better at and I think that definitely helps, cause it's it does make a difference.
Speaker 2:And then I would say the next thing is going to be um, when you take on this kind of role, you're, you're a lot of people's therapist, being honest. You're trying to keep people's morals high. People go through a lot of things. You're trying to be there for people, um, and I think it's really important to, and you should um. However, um you also got to realize when, um, something is going to hurt your culture. That you can't keep. And that's one decision I've made, whether it's on the production side or in different roles. When I've made those decisions off culture, the company, every single time, has benefited greatly.
Speaker 2:I think a good example is let's say you have a five plus million dollar company. You're hiring someone who's never done production in their life before Probably not the best role. If you're hiring someone where you're owner operator, you have something two, three million dollars you can teach that person. You have time, but as a business owner, you have to concentrate on things that are most conducive to, like, the growth of the company or the sustainability, not, um, not the other things. So, yeah, yeah, that comes. How do you choose what to focus on today? Yeah, because there's, you know, not not the other things.
Speaker 1:So yeah, how do you choose what to focus on today? Cause there's you know, there's a lot of things right. There's, it's a it's. You're juggling right there's, or you're playing whack-a-mole or whatever you want to.
Speaker 1:However, you want to put it right, like, how are you deciding on a day-to-day basis? And I got, we got to focus on collections and I heard from you too I love this too that just I guess this throws the question off a little bit, but you know, you're, it seems like you're really willing to go outside, like, hey, this is a problem that I don't have an answer for. Let me find an answer with with someone else. Like, if someone else has that answer, like, let them, let them answer the question now and solve that problem for me. Now I'll learn what it takes to solve that problem myself as I'm going through that. So you know, I guess you know what is that? Like, how do you choose the thing that needs to be? You know the problem that needs to be solved next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say, in terms of importance, what's detrimental to the day versus what can last today, but it's also just working a lot of long hours, you know, and delegating the right people, like you can't take on every task, you know. And then I would also say, just like, where I'm beginning to ask questions and people know more than me, like, yeah, after john's first class and in um, minnesota, his first class ever, uh, there was about 10 of us that I created a facebook, uh, like messenger, where 10 roofing owners were all in it. We're all asking each other questions, we're all helping each other. Um, they're people I don't see as direct competition. They're people that I see as helping one another. They're all really good people. They're in that facebook group.
Speaker 2:We share stuff all the time with each other, and it's one of the single greatest things that I feel like I've done, because it not only helps my business, it helps theirs too, and I'm looking for people that are ethical, people that care, people that I have a good relationship with and everyone else does too, and we'll actually we used to do breakfasts like um, basically once a month, for I mean going on like almost two years straight, and so we'll probably pick those back up here this winter when everyone's less busy, um, but those kind of things really do help each other and do make an impact.
Speaker 2:Like a great person, like it's a reference um is is matt cressel. Matt cressel is like an owner operator here in minnesota. He worked for abc for a number of years, um, and, if I have a siding question, him or jordan fox were great people to get answers from right away um or other, and there's tons of people that, um, yeah, are incredible. Um, but surrounding myself with those right people helped me not make any of the same mistakes they might have made, or they know other people that might have made.
Speaker 1:You know, I want to ask you like a final question to summarize everything, but it's like you've said so much and I want to maybe summarize it for you. It's like you've found good people to be around, you found the right people to learn from, you've been inquisitive, you've you've chosen a path of, of of serving your team and leading from the front. What, what other? What, what other things? What are the like? What's that? What's the thing Like? What would you like? What's that? What's the thing Like? What would you say? The thing is that like, if you are struggling, or if you are starting out, or if you just if you want to get you know, if you're stuck at that five level and you want to get to the eight figure level, what like? What is that thing that people should could do to get to that next level in their business?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say pay for training or go work for someone who believes in training. There's so many people that don't. They say not go knock, knock on doors, Like I have no problem. Like when we all go watch Sean or go have Dan come in, or if we have any kind of speaking opportunity possible that we can go take something to learn from it. Like I encourage those guys to do it, you know, in the day, like it's it's up to them, you know. But like when they see one me being willing to be on those kinds of calls too and being able to be present for them, I think that makes a huge difference. And then also just like, if someone's struggling, like going out and helping them, whether it's me, whether it's one of the guys, whether it's just sitting down and talking, talking through it and giving them the resources to be able to succeed, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Ian, for your time today. Man, this has been another episode of the Roofing Success Podcast. Thank you, Jim. Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast For more valuable content roofing success podcastcom. While there, check out our sponsors for exclusive offers, shop for merchandise and sign up for our newsletter for industry updates and tips. Also join the roofing success facebook group to connect with other professionals and stay updated on the latest trends. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, share and leave a comment. Your support helps us continue to bring you top industry insights. The website link is in the description. Thanks for listening.
