Roofing Success
The Roofing Success Podcast is a show created to inspire roofing contractors to achieve optimal success in their roofing businesses. The host, Jim Ahlin, is the co-author of the book, "Internet Marketing For Roofing Contractors, How to TRIPLE Your Sales and Turn Your Roofing Website Into an Online Lead Generation Machine", and Co-Founder of Roofer Marketers, the Digital Marketing Agency for the roofing industry. On each episode, Jim will be sitting down with industry leaders to talk about their processes, the lessons they learned, and how to find success in roofing.
Roofing Success
Toxic Culture: The Silent Killer of Roofing Companies with Tamara Chase
Toxic culture is like a silent killer lurking in your roofing company — and it can cost you everything if left unchecked. In this episode, Tamara Chase, CEO of Chase Roofing, shares her journey of building and maintaining a healthy, thriving team culture in the face of constant industry challenges. From labor shortages and insurance chaos to team development and customer satisfaction, Tamara dives into the leadership lessons that helped her company not just survive but thrive for over 22 years in South Florida.
Discover how to align your team, foster open communication, and protect your company culture by setting non-negotiables like kindness and excellence. Learn how to recognize and address the red flags of a toxic culture before it poisons your team. Whether you’re dealing with remote work challenges or trying to create a culture of trust and accountability, this episode is packed with insights to help you build a roofing company that people want to work for.
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How do you maintain exceptional customer service in a constantly evolving industry? Tamara Chase has spent 22 years refining her processes to create unforgettable experiences. In this episode, we unpack the art of aligning customer expectations with reality, even as your company scales and faces new challenges. Tamara Chase, ceo of Chase Roofing, leads a team in South Florida with a focus on innovation, team development and giving back to the community. What sets Tamara apart is her ability to navigate change, whether it's adjusting to storms or restructuring her business, all while fostering a culture of generosity and excellence. Get ready to learn how to evolve your business processes to build a legacy of customer satisfaction. Let's jump in with Tamara Chase. Welcome to the Roofing Success Podcast. I'm Jim Alin and I'm here to bring you insights from top leaders in the roofing industry to help you grow and scale your roofing business. Tamara Chase with Chase Roofing, how are you?
Speaker 2:Good, how are you?
Speaker 1:How's Florida? This time of year, it's wonderful. This week, see, that's just mean.
Speaker 2:Like 75 degrees. Chamber of Commerce weather.
Speaker 1:And it's cold here in Minnesota, so I have to get down to Florida here soon. And it's cold here in Minnesota, so I have to get down to Florida here soon. But yeah, I wanted to have you back on. I thought we had a great conversation. I think you do a lot of really cool stuff in your business. First of all, from the philanthropic side of things, just the way that you've grown your business over the years, all the challenges that you faced and overcome. For the people that didn't listen to the older episode, give them a little introduction. Who is Tamara Chase?
Speaker 2:Tamara Chase. I am a proud mother and wife and CEO of an awesome company called Chase Roofing and we've been operating in South Florida for 22 years and have an office, I think, for 11 years. We'll have to check on that and I love everything about it. I love working with my team, I love reaching my goals and bringing everyone along with me, and I love introducing them to my philip-phanthic way of life, and I don't know. I just love everything about it. I love the community. It just works for me.
Speaker 1:How have you continued to adjust your goals over the years and what are some things that you've done to bring that team along with you to achieve those goals?
Speaker 2:Well, we do a lot of adjusting and every time we have a storm we have to do massive adjustments just to prepare for the storm and then for whatever that unique storm has brought has been a very unique adjustment. Afterwards We've had to adjust to material shortages, to insurance deciding whether they're going to pay for the roof or not when it's damaged, to COVID, to price increases and labor shortages know other people trying to poach your best people after you've spent so much time building them. So we've had to do. We had to do a lot of adjustments. We're doing a lot of adjustments this year. We're we're restructuring a lot of things this year and you know some things may not be as popular but we're doing it this year.
Speaker 1:So you got to keep adjusting along the way to continue, just to continue being in business, right, like it's a challenge, right, and then to overcome that and be successful. And you know how are you looking at it specifically from, just from a macro level, like, okay, there's, this is the new problem we're facing. What's your framework, what's your methodology?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm constantly putting my pulse on where things are, so we obviously have to make a profit and have a business for this to all work. That's the center of it and at the is is seeing unique abilities and people and then figuring out where they love to be and where they, where they shine, and and then putting it, putting it all together. So it, you know, this year happens to be a restructuring of what used to work may not work now. So so we're re-looking at you know, a lot of it is like trying to balance being generous and and taking care of people and at the same time, it needs to, it needs to work for the business. So this year is a lot of restructuring around how do we, how do we, elevate our customer experience that's why we got into it in the beginning and and really really putting that on the forefront Like, how can we just give the customer the best experience with, with the tools that we have?
Speaker 1:So how this is. This is one of the things like, from companies that are just getting started to companies that are that have been around for a long time. It's a nonstop evolution.
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:Like a lot of people might say well, man, 22 years, you don't have your customer experience right, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And what I notice is I used to get very frustrated with that, and what I realized, it wasn't that we're learning it again. Sometimes I feel like this is a roofing 101. And what it is is it's a new evolution of how we are in 2024, going into 2025. And it's with more people. So how you operate and how you have processes are very different, with one person versus five people versus 200. And every time you're at that next level, you're redoing it again.
Speaker 1:What are some of the things that changed along those levels?
Speaker 2:So when you have one person doing it, they know what they're doing, they don't have to even coordinate with anyone else. So even just think about, like how, how much that changes from one person to two people doing something, and so now we're, like you know, each, each finger on the hand, is doing the same thing as one person used to do. So when you have 10 people that are really needing to essentially have the same brain and the same process of where that unique customer is and their unique experience, it it takes different tools, it takes different software, it takes different training, it takes different meetings, it takes different everything and every time you grow, you're doing it again with with the new team you have and the new amount of people you have and the new software you have.
Speaker 2:That's a, that's people you have and the new software you have.
Speaker 1:That's a. That's a unique analogy, like it's one brain right, you're one, but it's just one person, it's one brain, but now it's 10 people doing the same thing, but they all have to know where, know where, the, where, the, where this is where it was left off, where it was, and in one person's brain that's the. That that's an easy thing, but how do you connect them? What have been some of the things that you've put in place from a process, technology, whatever it is that have helped to bring the team together, to have cohesive communication or knowledge of where the job is at any given time?
Speaker 2:We have a lot of conversations around what you're noticing and saying something. So we have, you know, certain meetings with certain people in it and really building that culture of if you see something, say something, don't just assume somebody else knows and really having top down really try and understand where each person's view is. So everyone has their lens on and you need to have those meetings where, holistically, you're all getting to be on the same page. So we've changed some software this year. We've changed even how we're doing meetings so that we can all be on the same page. And sometimes we have meetings just about the process and what we're missing and what do you wish you could have if we waved a magic wand and then really listening and try and implement the things.
Speaker 2:You know the team is a huge part of that and then I would say a big part of it is just talking to customers. So when I talk to customers I'm asking them how was their experience? And sometimes I'm hearing the bad parts of that and and you know you have to take that back and look at, all right, holistically, where, where are all the people that are involved with that, that issue that now we're dealing with at this level. So a lot of it is really just listening and and taking the feedback and having having the right team be on the same page. You know we're we're doing some different meetings this this next year on. You know, on the post job review, that that is like a level we never had before and, and I really feel like you know, taking that information and bringing it back to the sales team so that what we sell is what's delivered and what is excellent. So really really having that complete experience.
Speaker 1:On those post-job reviews. Have you started doing that yet, or is that something that's in the works?
Speaker 2:It's in the works right now. So I mean we do a certain level of them, but not with the agenda and criteria we're going to do now and not as quick.
Speaker 1:I love the idea of that, I love the idea of that and that's, you know what key people are you going to have. You know, do you feel should be in on that conversation?
Speaker 2:So part of it is the production team, the different areas. You know I have a strong production inside and a strong production outside, so getting the two of them, along with the people in the field that are supervising, and then one person from sales representing sales, and one person from the pre, one person that helps with our pre-production process and and really and really like dissect, this is what we thought was going to happen at the beginning of the job. This is what happened. This is what we noticed. These are things we ran into. This. This went really well, this didn't, and which parts can we take back to the sales team to pay attention to? Which parts can we take back to the sales team to pay attention to, and which parts can we have?
Speaker 2:You know the production team make a little noise sooner in the line and you know just really. You know we call substantial completion. You know, like when that job looks perfect, it looks done from the outside. When you're driving by, you know that doesn't mean we don't have punch item. Still, that doesn't mean that you know we finished paying everything, but it looks right. So that's a stage where we're going to use as our, as our key metrics. So let's analyze this now.
Speaker 2:And it's also a good time to talk about what's still left and what do we need to do, and let's you know to to cry what you know. The hope is to try and fine tune expectations versus reality and at the same time, close it out faster so that the customer has a better experience on that end.
Speaker 1:That's really what we're trying to overcome and everything right. Is that expectation versus reality with the customer, with the homeowner? But I think that expectation versus reality with the customer, with the homeowner, but I think that expectation versus reality can also come within your team. Do you see that happening also?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you know everybody's looking through their lens, like I said, you know the salesperson is focusing on what's needed here, what's the best system, what's? You know all of that. And then the production. Their mentality is how do I just get it done? And there, and sometimes those two right there are half opposite agendas and and can butt heads a little, and so really just getting them on the same page and, you know, even doing ride-alongs with each other to sort of see the other perspective is helpful. But I don't know. I feel like you know today's world with customer service on such an outward plane. We have, you know, social media. We have reviews everywhere. It's sometimes it's aligning the expectations because what the homeowner thinks sometimes is not reality, it's not. You know, this is not a magazine where you're looking through and and they're looking at at AI manufactured pictures. This is probably the largest thing they'll go through. It's really big and messy.
Speaker 2:It is really big and messy. It's really big and messy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that, that expectation of, hey, this is going to be really big and messy. It is Sometimes doesn't get conveyed.
Speaker 2:It is, and they're humans, right, we're all humans. So, you know, assuming positive intent, everybody's really doing the best they can. There's nobody on my team. That's not like showing up going this is what I want to do and I'm doing their best. There's no B players. So, you know, sometimes just realizing that we can't control everything, we can't, you know there's a huge amount of things we can't control, especially with manufacturers and suppliers, and there's their organization of how they drop things off and all of that. There's so many things involved that we can't control. That's all we can try and do is say listen, this is what's coming up next, but you see, it's not on.
Speaker 1:What do you think? Over the years, some of the biggest problems in customer expectations that you've had, that you've solved.
Speaker 2:That we've solved. I think I think really having communication is. Communication is what people love and that's what they hate. That's what we do the best at and that's what we do the worst at. It's really, you know, it's something we do so well, but when you do, you know, when you do 50 re-roofs a month and a couple hundred repairs a month, you're not able to do perfection. And actually you know, when we were doing two a month, we weren't able to do perfection.
Speaker 2:You know that part's never changed. But I think communication and the customer's point of view is they, they want to know everything and at the same time they're not sure they want to be bothered, or I don't even know if they're even capable of listening to the point where we're explaining it, because they maybe they've never been through it and they don't, they don't know what, what to think and how to process it and what it means, what, what to think and how to process it and what it means. So you know we can, we can try and, you know, give as much communication as we can, but sometimes, sometimes it's not enough, sometimes it will never be enough.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think that's where we have to have grace in our process and grace in our people and but. But at the same time there's a how do you measure in in in an individual's, probably in the sales team or maybe on the production team? How do you measure it? How do you give them? There has to be grace to a point with people, right. But how are you looking at it in that? Are you looking for well, or at like maybe one of your sales reps has the expectations continuously are misaligned?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would say, you know, a big part of when I'm listening to a customer is I'm obviously able to hear things at a very holistic level. To hear things at a very holistic level and and I haven't I have nothing except for the intention of how do we hear what they're really trying to say Sometimes? Sometimes they're just frustrated because it's a big, messy job and it and it's inconvenient and and sometimes you know, when things get delayed or outside of control or even within our control, you know, all I can do sometimes is really just listen and try and hear what's underlying underneath the frustration and what the issue is. What is the issue we can control? Because sometimes inconvenience you can't control. I can't control if the manufacturer or supplier doesn't let you know they're coming on the way. I tell them to. I can't control. I can't control if the manufacturer or supplier doesn't let you know they're coming on the way, even if I tell them to. I can't control delays, I can't control inspection situations. There's a lot of things you can't control.
Speaker 2:So sometimes just listening so they know that they're being heard is part of it. And and I honestly take every single person I talked to when I learned, learned through something. So learn with whatever situation they're telling us. So you know, bringing that back to the team so that they can learn and see a different piece and say, okay, let's just, you know, learn, pull down, pull back the onions on this one and see what we could have done better and and and and what, what is a one-off and what needs to get implemented in a new system. It's a, it's a constant for me anyway and it should be a constant right.
Speaker 1:One of the things that like kind of what what we're talking about here reminds me of a clip that I've seen, that I saw with Jocko Willick, the Navy SEAL guy leadership trainer, where, like he talks about his team coming to him with problems and every time they come to him with a problem he says good, like we get to solve another problem, like that's the and so it sounds like you've created this loop, this, that, that type of feedback loop in your company. What are the most important things that you've that you feel? Uh, allow the team to be honest about that so that you can make the best decisions as an owner.
Speaker 2:I would say talking to people individually and together, but really individually, so that they understand that you're not telling on someone, you're not getting in someone in trouble, you're helping the process, you're helping the whole entire experience. This isn't about somebody doing something wrong. It's about adjustments that if we tweak a little, everyone's happier and really understanding that we're going to look at this and we're going to look at it as an example of what we can do differently and what we could do differently. Not you did something wrong. So I think that's, you know, talking with people individually is a big part of that. And then really setting the vision that that's just not what we do here. We don't, we don't hide things because we don't want to get someone in trouble, like everyone really, really cares, and so the downside of that is nobody wants to get anyone in trouble. You know they don't want to throw anyone under the bus, especially someone on their team. But getting them to understand that you're not throwing someone under the bus, you're helping the whole entire system work better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that it may not be a person problem. It could be a. We're focusing on solving process problems, right? That's a great. To summarize that a little bit, what are some of your non-negotiables when it comes to protecting your company culture?
Speaker 2:Kindness is a huge one. I just believe we can talk nice to each other and we can solve something that way. I'm not perfect with it at all. There's days I show up, like all you know, reactive and hyper, and you know we all have our own levels of oh, wow, yeah, I could have done that better. And so kindness is definitely a non-negotiable. Even if somebody calls up and they're not kind with the staff, I want them to let me know because you know everyone can have a bad day. But if they're just kicking the dog when they when they call and talk with the person who's literally trying to help them, I don't mind getting on the call and it's interesting how nice they are to me and at the end I go. I, you know I noticed that you really were given a you know so-and-so a hard time on the phone. You know what?
Speaker 1:was that about? And?
Speaker 2:then they're usually like I'm sorry and I was having a bad day and la, la, la la. Usually they'll call and apologize sometimes, you know, because they they realize you know you got, you know you got that person so upset she was crying and you know, typically admin who are answering the phone are, are more sensitive. They just want to help you. They just want to do what you know, do something that will make it better. So you know even kindness with how people talk with each other. But um, that's definitely um, excellence is a non-negotiable. Doing things the right way. If we do something wrong, fix it, if even it costs us money. That's just how we built our reputation. So I would, I would say those are the biggest ones. If you do, if you do everything you do in excellence and kind you're, you're ahead of the game.
Speaker 1:Definitely. What about? You know, a lot of people come from environment, from work environments that are not that way. How do you, how do you, how do you bring on a new team member and help them understand that that they're in that safe place, that you have standards, you have a standard of excellence, but there is that level of kindness and that they can? You know you want them to be open, and how do you, how do you do that? How do you develop that, the culture in that team member?
Speaker 2:Well, we do it even at the beginning of the interview process. We're looking for people that fit into that, to that mold already. I would much rather train somebody on something and their good character at the beginning, but but a lot of it is just each team member is is doing that. If you hear the conversation, it'll be like I'm not sure Tamara would like that. You know that's what they'll say and and you know, if I see something I'll say something as well. But a lot of times it's just self-regulated by the team.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, but that's what happens, right, and it's a different scenario. But, like, I think about that in like, uh, comments online or YouTube comments or something like that where when you have a, when you have your, your tribe right, when you have your tribe, they'll they'll go and defend your, defend your honor, and so so the people within your business are defending the business from, from all of the things that it feels might, you know, might might make it bad. Right, like, if someone leaves a bad social media comment and you have a tribe, your tribe will. You don't have to answer that, your tribe will answer that. Right, like, and so that's amazing. But how long do you think that took to develop?
Speaker 2:Yeah, A long time, because we went through periods where, you know, a couple of people behind the scenes are causing trouble and stirring the stuff and and other people allowed it, and so it ended up really being a cancer that we went through that.
Speaker 2:We went through a couple of years where we we had to learn that. And then afterwards, once we got past that point, then the conversation was you see, how not saying something or not standing up is saying something, because it doesn't. You know, you need to defend this culture. So when you hear something that's not aligned, you know there's nothing wrong with going up and saying you know, hey, what's going on. And and then, if, if they keep doing it, then bringing it, bringing it, uh, you know, to the to the top so that we so it can be dealt with, because it does not help, it just doesn't to have the negative person or the one behind the you know that victim mentality when they're behind that's, that's not helpful. So we've we've had to learn that really as a company. Okay, now that we're past that and now we see how easy it is to let it come through like a cancer, now we know how to defend it. So that's the important part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:It's not worth it.
Speaker 1:It's that openness, right, it's that openness allowing people to voice their concerns in a healthy way. Yeah, that's a. It's a key ingredient to culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you can have conflict and not be negative, nancy, or not being victim. You know, I recently, I was recently talking about this, about the only people who don't want to bring a problem to the surface are people that like to have something to bitch about, and and those people are victim mentality that they're like, oh, they like to complain about something. Well, you know, the rest of us want to fix it so that it can be dealt with and move on. Nobody's doing things on purpose, nobody's waking up, up going. I just want to ruin things today. So, you know, keeping things behind the scenes and quiet and and not dealing with it are the only people that are doing that are are people that are.
Speaker 1:You know they need to have an adjustment but that's interesting that you say that those are people that they they need something to bitch about, like and that's it there. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that that's what they enjoy, Like it feels like it's an enjoyment.
Speaker 2:It's like they're getting something out of it for sure.
Speaker 1:I have names flowing through my head right now, People that are like I know those people. Aren't they working for you? I didn't like, I didn't know they worked for you. But that's a thing, right, that's a now. How do you like? Does that become a person who maybe hits the radar then of, are they the right person for our company?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like all new brooms, sweep clean. So everyone comes in at first and you know it takes a few months to start seeing things. And when they let their guard down and they start getting into like who they really are and they show you, believe them.
Speaker 1:When they show you, believe them. Yeah, they're showing you.
Speaker 2:Why keep someone around for a long time when they're showing you, you know, like a couple of bad days and you know I do really want to spend all our effort trying to bring someone in and out of a, you know, a negative mindset. No, we can all hug sometimes, but it shouldn't, it shouldn't be something that it shouldn't be their default.
Speaker 1:You know, yes, I've been having this conversation recently, like at different stages of your business, you it's like your, your people are are almost there for not for different reasons, but as you grow and get more efficient, you know who you need for what and you're really, you really have a great idea A lot of times earlier in business. You need a warm body, yeah, and so we don't do our best at hiring. I think that hiring is a skill that most small business owners don't have at all when they're starting out and you develop that over time. How have you developed your skill for hiring the right team members?
Speaker 2:That is that's been a huge involvement. You know, at first it's not that you're just needing a warm body, because you do, you just you don't know any different. So you're hiring whoever's there, you know, and you just don't know any better. And you know as as as you evolve to the level we're at now. I mean I would say I would say listening and doing trainings and learning and being curious and learning from your mistakes, learning like wow, I could have taken a little longer to to hire this person, this position.
Speaker 2:There's a good book called Hiring Talent that I refer to a lot. It really talks about the length, of how long someone can do something without needing to come back to you for the next steps. So understanding that when you're hiring someone that is hired to do a certain task and then we're expecting them to do a different level, that's really on us certain task and then we're expecting them to do a different level, that's really on us. So a lot of it isn't even always looking at the employee and thinking what could they do differently or how could I hire differently. It's really looking at how are we showing up as managers? Are we teaching the best? Are we training? Are we giving them the support they need? Are we listening? Are we giving them the support they need? Are we listening? We asking questions and asking each other. You know, all of that is part of like how do we invite them into this culture and how do we invite them into the company.
Speaker 2:And you can't have everybody have the same personality. That's that's where I come in, because I like a lot of different personalities and but you know, sometimes the people that just want to get it done, they're like saying why are they talking so long? And the person who's talking so long, they're like why are they? You know, everybody has a different way they show up. We do trainings with the sales and production team a lot because I feel like the more they're on the same page and the more they're seeing things from the other person's angle. That's helpful and I think it's really looking at like what's going to balance a team out.
Speaker 2:So we do a couple assessments and stuff and I rely on part of those to sort of see like where is the happiness and where's the joy going to come from the team member and how does that fit in to our wheel of?
Speaker 2:You know, a bunch of spokes on our wheel, so it does take a whole lot of people and it I feel like I feel like a big part of my job is just getting everyone to see the big picture with it, because sometimes it's it's really frustrating and you can only see your side of things until someone shows you a different side. You know, it's like you know, if I look at my phone and I have one person looking at it on the white side and one person looking at it on the silver side and you ask two people, what color is this? They're going to tell you two different colors and they're really both right. So being able to understand like that we're looking at things, that that such a unique perspective that is not like how you think, is a gift, because it's another angle to look at it.
Speaker 1:That's a great, that's a great analogy there. It's so hard to it is because when you're in your day to day, and that is your view, it's really hard. It's really hard to see the other side, but I love the idea of cross-training and having conversations and because then people start to be able to see that other view. Yeah, you had mentioned you know key people and, and and you know, and, as you've grown. What are the qualities you look for in emerging leaders in your company?
Speaker 2:I look for people who are generally interested in elevating themselves. So people that are curious about their blind spots, curious what else they could learn to elevate. Being able to say, hey, listen, have you guys ever thought about it this way and be willing to take that risk? Not thinking like that, everything I say is going to be hurting someone else. That mentality, when people can approach a subject kindly and with leadership, that tells me a lot. It tells me they're willing to be brave and that braveness is really what elevates them.
Speaker 2:I mean, I have people with me that have started off in very, very entry level positions, that hold very senior positions now and sometimes it's a matter of saying during one-on-one coaching listen, this is going to be your next hurdle and this is the next level for you and all you can do is provide the tools and the support and the coaching and the love and then watching them step into it and be like a deer walking for the first time and figure it.
Speaker 2:The love and then watching them step into it and like, be like a deer walking for the first time and figure it out. And then you know, you look back a year later and you realize how good at their. Now they're working at that next level. So I feel like constantly evolving and all right now I know all this. How can I look at it with fresh eyes, with all of the new stuff I have in my database that I have learned now you know, it's like a constant involvement. How can we look at the same thing with new eyes and more information that we've learned and being willing?
Speaker 2:to do that you know, some people aren't willing. They're like, oh, I'm fine, I'm clocking in, I'm clocking out, and I guess you need those people too. But, like, as far as leadership, that's, that's what it takes. It takes to me being able to have a conversation and do it with kindness and and productivity, like efficient it's, it's, it's valuable, even if it's, even if it's not all scripted perfect, or or, or, you know, it's not all scripted perfect or it's not already seasoned. But the willing to step out and try and do it with grace to me, those will be the people I tend to put more attention on when it comes to leadership.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely In your one-on-one coaching with your team members. How do you approach it? Do you do one-on-one coaching with your team members? How do you approach it? Do you do one-on-ones with your direct reports? Do you do with everyone in the company? How do you? How do you? How do? What's the structure of your one of the one-on-ones that your company has?
Speaker 2:I like to do one-on-ones that are nothing I have nothing to do with work at all. More importantly, because I want to see, like, what's going on with them and where they are in their life and what's important to them and where do they see themselves. So somebody that is like I want to retire, I don't want to start another job, they're going to have a different conversation with me than no, I'm really just trying to learn as much as I can and I want to go off into another industry or whatever it is. It's, it's um, you know a lot of it is really finding out what they need and matching it with what we need. But I love, I love one-to-ones that that, um, you know they, they can give some advice on what they would like to see differently, things that they notice on their side.
Speaker 2:I love one-to-ones like that. I love to just even talk about, like, how are they integrating in with the rest of the team and maybe give them a different angle if they're struggling in a certain area and maybe give them a book, or you know a lot of it. You know, for the girls it tends to be a lot of confidence building things and you know we're in a very male dominated industry and sometimes how people approach women are different, and so it's really giving them the confidence and the support and the. I got your back on this and this is how we're going to move forward with this until they really are confident in rising to that next level. So I think a lot of it is really seeing what it is they need and how I can support their growth. You know what I mean. Some of them are just 20 years before me, so if I could give them anything I learned and it worked or sometimes I give them what doesn't work, because that's helpful too, yeah.
Speaker 1:What questions do you feel lead to that truth? Because a lot of times I think people hide that right, Like they hide that what they're really looking for, or sometimes they haven't even thought about it.
Speaker 2:Right. Sometimes they don't even know right.
Speaker 1:People don't even think right. What are some of the questions that you feel helps to get that out of them?
Speaker 2:I like to ask what does that mean? Oh, you know, and all right, tell me more about that, okay, what does that mean? And if you like, almost like that, that onion peeling where, where you're finding out what, so finally you can get to the truth of what it is, and sometimes they didn't even know. And, um, sometimes it's, what does that look like? And sometimes it's, um, if, if you could wave a magic wand and and have everything perfect. What does that look like? Wand and have everything perfect, what does that look like? And sometimes it's what's in between this goal and where we're at now. Sometimes, going through that list of everything that could go wrong is the list of what we can work on. So some things I can coach them, what they could work on themselves to step up, and some things I can work out on my side, you know, in a bigger picture.
Speaker 2:So I think part of it is also trust and taking time. Like they, you know, like you said before, sometimes they come from another company that isn't used to that. So I think at first they're trying to get their bearings and is this real? And then after a while they realize, okay, yeah, she did listen to me and yeah, we didn't do everything that we talked about, but we improved here, here and here and they feel a support.
Speaker 2:So you know, I feel like being authentic and you know that part's easy. You just show up and be you and just do what you say, so that part's easy. So I think once they see that process of that, I really do care and I'm I'm really trying to hear from something from their point of view. I think that that, you know, lends to the next time we talk. They're like, okay, I don't have to dig as hard and and that I'm going to they trust that I'm not going to take their information and go throw them under the bus or, you know, even hurt somebody else. I mean, I feel like one of my gifts is being able to take information and do something with it without really making it a blame game. So I think it's.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it just takes time for them to go through that process to earn they. They need to feel trusted or be like feel the trust in the relationship right what are, and sometimes it's the first time they've ever really been seen true.
Speaker 2:Or it's the first time they've ever really been seen True, or it's the first time anybody's ever noticed something that they didn't even know about themselves.
Speaker 1:That is, and it's uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it can be scary because you know, I can see, wow, I see this really cool, you know trait in someone and they're like what do you mean? But I know like I can see like how they lean into leadership. I see how they lean into training and coaching and conversations. I've seen how they take the information and use it. So I already know like if they keep on this path, you know that it's going to be a good thing. You know so sometimes they're they just they don't see that the 10 steps down the road yet how do you help them see that?
Speaker 1:Cause? I think that's what happens after you have experience. Right, it's an experience thing. And you see, you've, you, you, you, you've been in business for a long time, you've seen different people and who succeeded and who didn't, and the traits that they had, and it becomes almost subconscious for over time. Right, it does. But how do you get them to buy into what you see?
Speaker 2:Sometimes it just takes time and sometimes it literally just takes one-on-one. Sometimes, when I'm doing grouping, I can see after a conversation if people listen to it and they took the advice and went with it seeing them, seeing where they're at, seeing what they're able to process and what they're able to hear and what they're digesting. So if they're a good character and they're not digesting something, that means that they're probably not capable of hearing that message yet. So maybe we need to go backwards in an area. So I may recommend a certain book or a certain mindset. You know, conversation, or even sometimes just having a conversation with them. You know, in the past, you know this has been my experience and the other side of that is this so sometimes it's just, you know, really tapping in and holding, you know, your team close to you enough to see what they're going through.
Speaker 2:What are some of the leadership challenges that you faced over the years? I would say getting through the different situations. That kindness sometimes has the other side of it, so sometimes people can take advantage of that. Some people see it as a weakness and so it has to play itself out. Some people are really just like looking at something from a very, you know self-indulgent sort of way, and I don't see it at first, you know. So you know I would say those have always been a challenge because you know I've been burnt before and you know the natural instinct after you're burnt is to close up a little bit and and and I've, I've realized that no, I'm, I'm going to be me and there's going to be people that burn me and now I'm better at, you know, seeing that ahead of time. But you know I would say that that's always been a challenge.
Speaker 2:I'd say a challenge has been. I see I'm very creative and I see things very futuristic and very visionary and so sometimes throwing too many things at once or not having a realistic timeline on how long it's going to take to get something moving, that's timeline on how long it's going to take to get something moving, that's that's been a constant. You know, and this is where you know you need people on the team. Like I said, it takes all types of positions and and point of views and personalities. So not having, yes, people, yes people around me has been important. It's not always something I want to hear, but it's what I need to hear and sometimes they just don't know and it's at least now I know where their lens is. But there's a lot of times they can say wait a second, we're rolling out too many things at once or we're not able to digest this because we haven't learned this part yet. So I'd say over the years that's been the difficult flow slowing down.
Speaker 2:You know just this last year you know, it took us a year longer than I thought to do a major project on something, and and it and it caused issues. It caused cashflow issues, it caused stress, it caused, you know, and and. When I realized that, wow, my, my, my vision on this one was wasn't right on target you know, it's, it's, you know, I learned from it I go backwards and say, okay, what could I have done differently? How could I have asked more questions and really insisted on honest answers and not yep, that sounds great.
Speaker 2:So I I think, having people around me that you know when you asked, you asked before, like, what do I look at for leadership when some comes to me privately and they say something that that's a huge, that's a huge plus in my book that tells me they're not just interested in the day to day stuff.
Speaker 2:They they're seeing a bigger picture. I also love when people come to me and say, okay, I heard you say this over here and this over here is happening. They see that unaligned cause and effect with something or maybe even something I didn't realize was going on. So I like when people say that too, because it's something easy to correct instead of not knowing about it, and they know that it's something easy to correct instead of not knowing about it and it's. They know that it's not aligned and so I like when people do that. But yeah, I think I think a lot of it is just, you know, tapping in to my key leaders, that I feel like that's my biggest, my biggest goal and and tapping into the customers and seeing their experience and making sure what we think is happening is happening and taking care of those, it's key.
Speaker 1:It is. It's challenging from a visionary perspective, right, and you want things to go fast, Like I see how we could change this and let's go, let's go. I'm a big fan of EOS. I don't know if you guys run EOS, but like that visionary integrator, that someone to say, have you thought of this? But have you thought of that? Like finding the holes in it's. It's always great to get holes poked in your ideas right. And let's, let's have those real conversations and and and find the best way forward.
Speaker 2:They probably don't even realize I depend on them that much with it and and how much I value it so I should. This reminds me I should go thank people for poking holes in my how much I value it so.
Speaker 1:I should. This reminds me I should go thank people for poking holes in my. That's right, Because that's what we need. Right, we need to. You know, there's always we. We don't get to see it through everyone's lens. That's the problem, Right, and? And so to say, this is what we, this is the direction we want to go, and then all of a sudden it's like oh, but you didn't think of how that would change this process and create a terrible experience for the customer, Like having that feedback loop. And again it kind of comes back to just the. I would say what's kind of become a theme of the conversation is the developing that feedback loop in your company, right? Like, if you have a healthy feedback loop of information, that's how you're going to get, that's how you're going to be able to make the best decisions as a leader. You will not be able to make good decisions without good data, Yep, and if people are hiding data from you, you have blind spots in your decision making, whether you know it or not. Right, Very true, yeah.
Speaker 2:Especially now you know we have we have admin that are online. They're not in person. So that was a huge shift for us.
Speaker 2:Is is how do we stay in in? You know, how do I have my thumbprint on what their pulse of what they're doing and when they're not in the same room and I can't hear them. So it's it's, it's really adjusting to how we do things differently. Now, how do we, how do we, how do I know if they're upset during the day? Or you know, you can't see their body language, when they're away and they're, you can't see, if they're like they have so much work, they're crazy busy and they don't know how to keep it together, or if they're bored, twiddling their thumbs. You know you can't see. You know you have to.
Speaker 1:How have you, how have you been trying to solve that problem?
Speaker 2:It hasn't been easy.
Speaker 1:No, it's not easy at all.
Speaker 2:It's. It's really just like asking feedback and you know we, we, you know we're constantly like trying to bring them in the fold and that's that's all you can do, is the best you can do. You know, eventually time sort of wears that out If, if someone's like, oh no, I'm fine, and they're really bored, you know it's going to only last so long. You know the purposes, so they're happy to during the day that they're doing something that they enjoy doing and they feel like they they're part of the big picture that they're, they're giving their unique, you know service to the team. So if they're not really going through that, they're gonna eventually be apathetic and bored and that sort of shows up in their attitude and yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, remote teams are hard, are hard to manage in a lot of ways, the but, but it can be done. It gets done all the time. Right like it gets done all the time. It's just a new problem. This it is.
Speaker 2:It is and it's also, you know it's. It's been a benefit. You know what, like one of our girls had a baby and she was we were able to do at first. First she was able to work from home and then she did a hybrid where she comes a couple of days in and she stays at home a couple of days and and it works, you know it. You know you have to have the right people to do that. But yeah, I am another one, she's. She was down here and then she wanted to move back up, you know, out of state, and it worked, it's. You know we fly her down a couple times a year and it works. So it just has, you know, has to be a right match, but it's definitely different than when they're in the same room.
Speaker 1:Definitely there's a lot to it. You're in Florida and I think in Florida you guys face a lot of unique challenges. First of all, I would say it's probably the epicenter of insurance legislation and the changes that are being made mean the amount of storm damage that happens in Florida when a hurricane, when the hurricanes come through, and, and, and you know so many changes over the years. What trends do you think or innovations do you think will shape the roofing industry going into the future?
Speaker 2:Well, the insurance, the insurance portion of it, has been a huge push on the evolution of how and when we do roofing. Now I've seen it all from Hurricane Wilma, where they paid for a lot of roofs, and then I saw many years after that where I would hear homeowners go I know I need a new roof, but I'm just going to wait for a storm to damage it and the insurance will cover it. Well, enough, people said that and I saw the pendulum switch the other way, where the insurance is saying I don't care, I'm not going to insure your roof if it's past 20 years or whatever it is. So I've seen both sides of it and you know, you know the insurance is going to every storm. They've changed the rules, the way that they've set things up for public adjusters.
Speaker 2:Now it's been, it's been a mess to watch. You know, from our perspective and certainly from the homeowner's perspective, yeah, a lot of homeowners that they end up having to sue their insurance company to get what they should be taking care of. And you know, in the past public adjusters were always a big help with that and yes, I'm sure there's always, you know, one-offs, but predominantly speaking, public adjusters were really just trying to say this is what you paid for and was rightfully yours on your policy and trying to match that up with insurance company. But now that's changed a lot. So the homeowners are really sort of given less and sometimes they give really silly claim dollars for something that's valid and they end up having to sue and that just drives up the cost. You know it's just harmful for everyone. I don't know where that's going to play out. It's going to be interesting. I mean, the insurance companies have the money so they're going to win this argument.
Speaker 2:But you know, I mean part of it. I sort of understand, because people did take it too far and they're like oh no, let me, you know, I know I'm damaged but I'll just wait. So you know, at the same time we've had a couple of really bad scares here with category fives coming straight at us and when I realize the magnitude of that I think like when I think of people saying, oh, I know I have this damage, I'll just sort of see how it goes Like that's crazy. A category five hurricane hitting you don't even want to be in your house, nevermind, you know, having a damaged roof. That is that. That's not protecting your house. That to me is crazy, but I don't think you know, a lot of people probably thought, oh well, it's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:So you know, now the insurance company is mandating all sorts of stuff and we're going to, we're along for the ride to see how it works out. I mean, there isn't a week I don't get a subpoena where I'm asked to testify for some, for a customer who we've had before, who is now fighting something with their insurance for a claim, and and they call us in. For you know it's been really, it's really bad because you don't get paid to do that and you know I could hire a full-time person to do it. That's how, that's how many come in. You know, 22 years of of roofs, it's a lot of. It's a lot of homeowners that are dealing with their insurance companies sometimes, but I'm not sure what they're going to, what they're going to do.
Speaker 1:What else do you see going on in the industry? Well, positive changes, negative changes. What do you? What do you? What are you seeing?
Speaker 2:The labor market continues to be a struggle. The reality is, the people that are willing to do the roofs are not always necessarily Americans who are sitting here with a Florida driver's license, and you know that's constantly been a struggle, because it's not even a matter of, you know, intent to do what's right. It's a matter of do you need your roof to do what's right? It's a matter of do you need your roof done and who's skilled to do that, and so that's always been interesting. You know something that's definitely not new and seems to be getting worse. You know I do a lot of presentations, sort of around this conversation, of really how bad the construction industry, as a general point, is losing its workers. There's people that are retiring and there's now people knocking on the door to come in. So realizing this is an issue, this is something that affects homeowners. This isn't just something that affects roofing companies or electrician electrical companies. This is something that's that all trickles down into the homeowner. So if it costs this much to do a roof with this group and it costs this much to to do it with with someone else, that cost goes right to the homeowner. Um, so sometimes, um, the struggle of adjusting to that has been. Uh, that it's been. That has been a real thing.
Speaker 2:I personally think that women would be an awesome addition to the construction industry. Right now it only has. 10% of us are women and I feel the way that they uniquely show up would be awesome for a construction industry. So it's interesting. Some of the presentations are hey, did you know that there's a need here and we want you? Because I love working with women and I love their unique way of showing up and the way they're detailed and the way they clean up after themselves way of showing up and the way they're detailed and the way they clean up after themselves. I don't have to hire people just to make sure that we followed through with this, with all the things.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's not just about the skill and the technical part that's being done, it's the. Did we call you on the way so that you're not naked when we show up? And did you? Did we knock on the door and let you know, hey, we're coming on the roof now? Or did we knock on the door and let you know, hey, we're coming on the roof now? Or did we knock on the door when we're done and say we're leaving? Or did we clean up our mess when we're done. So sometimes even just that holistic part of the job comes more natural to some genders than others. I'll say it that way. That's right. That's right.
Speaker 1:It does. That's awesome, Tamara. Thanks for your time today.
Speaker 1:This has been another episode of the Roofing Success Podcast. Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast. For more valuable content, visit roofingsuccesspodcastcom While there, check out our sponsors for exclusive offers, shop for merchandise and sign up for our newsletter for industry updates and tips. Also join the Roofing Success Facebook group to connect with other professionals and stay updated on the latest trends. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, share and leave a comment. Your support helps us continue to bring you top industry insights. The website link is in the description. Thanks for listening.
