Roofing Success
The Roofing Success Podcast is a show created to inspire roofing contractors to achieve optimal success in their roofing businesses. The host, Jim Ahlin, is the co-author of the book, "Internet Marketing For Roofing Contractors, How to TRIPLE Your Sales and Turn Your Roofing Website Into an Online Lead Generation Machine", and Co-Founder of Roofer Marketers, the Digital Marketing Agency for the roofing industry. On each episode, Jim will be sitting down with industry leaders to talk about their processes, the lessons they learned, and how to find success in roofing.
Roofing Success
Forget Ladder-Climbing! This Sales Team Closes Roofs in 8 States From One Office! with Kody Landals
đźš« No ladders. No traveling. No kitchen tables.
✅ Just a phone, a system, and a team selling roofs in 8 states — all from one office.
In this episode, you’ll meet Kody Landals. He’s the founder of Reimagine Roofing and one of the smartest leaders in the roofing space today. Kody built a virtual sales team that closes big jobs without stepping foot in a home. And it worked so well, a national company bought them!
You’ll learn:
- How to sell roofs over the phone (even $70k metal jobs).
- Why speed, honesty, and deep roleplay win more sales in 2025.
- The BIG shift in homeowner behavior—and how to win in this new market.
- How Kody trains reps to handle HUGE deductibles and hard convos.
- Why helping homeowners make a decision is the new secret to closing.
If you’re feeling the heat with low lead flow, more “I wanna wait” responses, or long sales cycles… this one’s a must-watch.
đź’Ą This is next-level stuff to help you grow, scale, and STAY sharp as the market tightens.
đź”— https://www.reimagineroofing.com/
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What if you could close high ticket roofing jobs virtually without setting foot in the home and still get acquired by a national player? Cody Landels did exactly that. As the founder of Reimagine Roofing, cody built one of the most innovative roofing companies in the country, scaling into eight states using virtual sales, a centralized lead gen and a consultative team selling model that most contractors would never even consider. In this episode, we unpack how Cody's virtual first model led to a successful acquisition by a PE-backed national brand. What really caused the sudden shift in roofing buyer behavior and how to respond. The role of discomfort, honesty and AI-driven call coaching in elite sales team performance. And why helping people make a decision, not just selling a roof, is the new name of the game. Plus, we talk about what most owners get wrong when scaling and how to stay sharp as the industry tightens up. If you're trying to grow, adapt or just survive in 2025's market, this episode is pure gold. Let's jump in with Cody Landels of Reimagine Roofing and my fellow coach with the Roofing and Solar Reform Alliance.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Roofing Success Podcast. I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here to bring you insights from top leaders in the roofing industry to help you grow and scale your roofing business, cody Landles. How are you, man Doing awesome. How about yourself? Great man? Reimagine Roofing has progressed. Yeah, how are things going post acquisition.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome, I mean, um, at least awesome for me. I know the admin team at the parent company probably not quite as awesome. You know it's been a little bit of a transition, uh, from you know being able to just go into somebody's office and say, hey, do this, or you know, hire this person, or um, hey, changing this, to now having to fill out a form that you know has to take five days in order for it to happen. And then you know that. You know so that that's been a challenge, but, but I mean, besides that it's been, it's been awesome. You know, it's really allowed me to be a a lot more involved in in the day-to-day with on the sales and the marketing side.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, not being as concerned with kind of the dollars in, dollars out and, uh, you know really is has allowed my brain to be in the you know the right brain space, you know, the whole work week, rather than having that constant like, oh yeah, that's all awesome, we made a great sale, all right, let's make another one. Wait, hold on, did he pay his bill yet? Did this? You know, and you're you're constantly kind of juggling. You know 19 things and now I'm only juggling like five, so much, much better in that regard.
Speaker 1:Much easier, much easier. How did let's talk a little bit about? So? For people that don't know you, we could go back a little bit further. You've been on the podcast before. We coached together in the in the roofing and solar reform Alliance, so we know each other well. But what you know for people listening like how did, where did re-imagine roofing come from? How did, how did you start re-imagine roofing and what was the vision for it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, just kind of the the brief summary of it. Um, you know, I started in the solar industry and I was working with a lot of roofers in the solar industry. I got tired of unprofessional roofers and just taking multiple days or even weeks to get a quote. So I wanted to reimagine the roofing process, hence the name. So I launched Reimagine Roofing. We started off as a B2B focused company where we did roofing for the majority of the solar industry. As the solar know kind of imploded from the inside out, we switched to a direct consumer model, um, with a focus on um really utilizing technology to give a unique uh homeowner experience. So the big thing that um really separates us is we sell all of our roofing projects um completely virtually. Um.
Speaker 2:So while sometimes we'll still do in-person inspections, many of our homeowners already know they have a bad roof and they just want to get it taken care of. They might be in Europe at the time and, you know, or they might be an Airbnb owner that owns multiple properties, or they might just be somebody that doesn't want to have to deal with their unruly kids and dogs. You know, like myself, I got a Great Dane in 202. But they're unruly kids and dogs Like myself, I got a Great Dane in 202. So if you're going to come sit in my house to have my six-month-old screaming and my two-year-old screaming and my Great Dane trying to lick you to death, it's like man, can't we just do this over the phone, and it'd be that much easier. And so that's really what we've done is try to make the roof buying process as simple as possible, to appeal to that customer that wants to do something quick over the phone or over a zoom call, and it allows us to help a different subset of homeowners than than your kind of your average homeowner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it and it, it is, it is. It has definitely changed the, you, the perception. I know a lot of the, a lot of members in the rsra have gotten some inspiration from you and and it's like wow, we, what do you mean? We're not going to the kitchen table. Like, what do you mean? We're not climbing the. You know what I mean. Like it's just wait, what do you? How do you wait a second? Like, like, but it's worked Right and it has worked to you know, I mean you've had your ups and downs and struggles, like everyone does, but that, but building it that way led to a, a future acquisition, maybe, maybe speak to that a little bit of you know kind of how that came about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Um, you know, the thing that I, you know kind of how that came about. Yeah, you know, the thing that I I've always kind of talked to my team about is that you know, we don't need to sell not everyone's our customer. We can't sell a hundred percent of the people, and so by focusing in this niche, it allows, allowed us to find the right customer, just like Carvana people buying cars without test driving it. You know, sometimes homeowners are OK, you know, not having that person at the kitchen table and many people have actually said it's a miracle to them, like, oh, thank you so much, I didn't want that.
Speaker 2:And if you think, from a scalability perspective, my team is selling roofs in Florida and New Jersey and New Mexico and Utah and Texas and Arizona, all from right here in Arizona. So one, it's scalable, but also it's a lot more manageable. All the calls are recorded very easily because they're on the phone or on a Zoom call. I can walk out there and listen in real time. So there's a lot of kind of operational and leverage benefits there and so that was really appealing to the private equity space because it provides a real roadmap and a real system to be able to sell roofing in 48 or 50 states, which has always been kind of one of the challenges in the roofing spaces.
Speaker 2:How do you take it national, how do you provide that consistency when a roof in Oregon is so much different than a roof in in Arizona?
Speaker 2:You know, how do you?
Speaker 2:How do you scale without sacrificing quality or without having, you know, kind of a franchise model where it's like, yeah, we're in, we're in, you know 28 States, but Bob over there doesn't do it the same way, jim doesn't do it and Steve, like Steve, doesn't even come to the calls, like you know, um.
Speaker 2:But I think when you can control the leads and the sales, um, then the rest of what you're doing is producing at the local level and that becomes a lot more easy to manage and, uh, systemize. Because if you have one branch that's doing 20 million a year and your other branches are doing 5 million a year, it's tough to then tell that person doing 20 million a year what to do, or, or to do it differently, or you know they're 50 of the revenue. What are you going to tell them? You know, and and I think, like, by centralizing the sales and the leads, which we still have our field teams. We still have our teams that go out. You know they. They still do a ton as well. But I think long-term kind of the vision of being able to centralize increases the scalability.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and it there are so many challenges with scaling and moving into new locations. Um, so you were acquired by elite construction solutions, right, mike Braun and the team over there. So you were acquired by Elite Construction Solutions, right, mike Braun and the team over there, who I've known for years. He's been on the podcast a couple times and they I really what were some of the things I think for a lot of people that are starting to get into this acquisition area of their business and they're starting to get some attention, they're starting to get the phone calls their business and they're starting to get some attention and they're starting to get the phone calls. How did you, how did how did you go through the process of make sure it was the right fit for you guys?
Speaker 2:I think it starts with defining what you want, um, and having clear vision on that, because somebody there's enough players in this space Somebody will give you what you want, but if you don't know what you want, going into it, uh, then you're going to struggle and you're going to probably end up unhappy. And, and for me, what I wanted is I wanted a clear pathway to, to be able to take this to the next level. I wanted a decent uh ramp, and I I'm a salesperson at heart, so I wanted to bet on myself. You know, I wanted, I didn't, I didn't value getting a ton of money at close Um, I, you know, drive a company truck to this day. I, you know, I'm perfectly happy in the house I'm in, so it's like okay, great, give me, you know, $5 million tomorrow. What am I going to do? I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing now. I'm building.
Speaker 2:So instead, um, as anything in the world, if you're willing to bet on yourself and defer gratification or defer payment, it's always going to be larger if it's tied to success, and so for me, that was really important and and everybody was like oh, you know, or most every other people that I'd spoken to were just giving clear multiples of ebony. It's like, great, you did this last month or this this last, 12 times it by this number and here's your payout. I'm like, yes, but I'm also my trajectory is looking like this and I, I know what I'm about to do and I'd like to bet on what I'm about to do. And they're like, well, yeah, but this is what you did in the previous 12 months and they just keep coming back to that. You know some financial security and some other you know, guarantees that around my team, around you know, keeping the personnel in place, having some autonomy on the decision making and going to build what I wanted to build.
Speaker 2:And I wanted, you know, that rocket fuel to put on what my vision was. And I wanted a partner that believed in my vision. And, at the end of the day, they were really investing in that vision. My company, yes. Um, at the end of the day, they were really investing in that vision. My company, yes, but, but more so, the vision of, of what came next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was the most painful part of the process for you?
Speaker 2:Oh man, um, the last, I don't know, it was all a blur, whether it's like three days or seven days or whatever it was. Um, you know, ours was more complicated than most because I was a 51 49. You know, I had a financial partner that was here from the beginning, you know, really completely silent, but had the financial interests as well. Also, you know, throughout our process, we had taken on a minority investor that had invested in us to blitz scale to the East Coast, a solar company that also, the way the original investment was written, had more control than they should have as a small investor. So it was a lot of moving parts and a lot of people. It was the best way I could describe it. It was like a giant game of chicken that it was in everybody's best interest to get the deal done. But at one point or another probably myself included, I think all parties said you know what, maybe this deal isn't for us. And so it was.
Speaker 2:We were actually having like a company event, you know, and so it was. Um, we were actually having like a company event. We had a bunch of people fly in and we were like doing a game show and I was just sitting in the lobby, uh, like just rotating calls of like, uh, because also it was like kind of all, like I was the central point of it all and it was like calling all right, now, we're here. All right, now we're here. Okay, hey, what about? Is that five, 30 or something as well? And it's, we were trying to get everything done, um, you know, before the weekend.
Speaker 2:Basically, there was some some time constraints on it as well, so, um, that was really stressful, having multiple parties um involved in kind of it not being as simple as all of us just getting to the table and talking together, but like a high level game of telephone, because also with the other parties, it would then, you know, go to the person I'm talking to, you know up a couple of times and then come back down a couple of times and come back, you know. So it was. It was um, very, very, um, very, very challenging, but taught me a ton, um, and you know it was it. Um, it was a great experience. Like it was. It really was something to kind it. Um, it was a great experience. Like it was. It really was something to kind of see um this happen in real time and to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. And then you know, as you said, this was the. The partnership came together, the acquisition came together and, like I asked you like what were the things? And it, and it was like the aligned vision, letting you express your vision and this keep, keep this thing moving forward in the, in the ways that you're looking at it. What is what has it been like since? Right, you said you went from juggling 19 things down to five. How has that helped you? What is the outcomes been? What's, what's it been like? Post, I guess, post, uh, post acquisition?
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I think it's allowed me to stay in um, your flow, state Um, and it's allowed me to. It's as funny as it sounds. It's allowed me to, uh, do deep work at work. So I used to only be able to write new scripts or build a new presentation or do some of these like creative things, either on the weekend or, you know, at four o'clock in the morning, like from four to seven, until, like, the other day started and now I can do these things. You know, I sometimes look at my calendar and I'll have a a three-hour window and I'm just like, oh, wow, I, I guess I'm gonna work on some scripts, cool, like you know, it's like I've.
Speaker 2:The first couple times it was weird. It was like, oh man, what I got three hours, what am I supposed to do? And I'm just like, oh man, I can do like this stuff, that's also work. But I've always thought was like weekend work. So, um, it's allowed me to get more kind of precise with our language. You know, listen to more calls, do more training, just really just sharpen the sword, you know, across the company, which has allowed us, you know, then, to respond to things in real time, you know, such as the new economic challenges, such as new customer sentiment. Being able to see that in real time and getting a response out within days of getting the feedback from the sales team or hearing it on the calls has allowed us to be nimble during times like this where things are changing quickly.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about that a little bit, cause I think that's been coming up a lot on our you know, on on my RSRA calls, I'm sure if you know on your calls too. Um, I had a call this morning and uh and and I don't. I don't know if everyone's ready, I don't know if everyone believes the, that it's real. Yet they're still wondering, they're starting to question their marketing agency, they're starting to question their marketing manager. They're starting to question if this B the LSA account right. I feel like there's a lot of people questioning that but not coming to the realization that there's something bigger going on 100%.
Speaker 2:I mean, I would be lying to you if I told you there wasn't a week where I questioned the virtual sales process, just a month ago.
Speaker 2:I was just like man, maybe do we need to start sending people in people's homes again Like what's going on? Because there was a very distinct shift in consumer sentiment that seemed to literally happen in real time. We went from basically never hearing it to six, seven times in a week that, hey, um, I, I just lost a lot of money in the stock market. Um, I don't, I don't know if I might hold off for three months on this roof. You know, or you know, we do a lot of high end metal roofing and our ideal customer is somebody that probably has one to $5 million in the stock market. You know, it drops 10%. They lost a hundred, 150 K, 200 K, and in a weekend, you know it drops 10, they lost 100, 150k, 200k, and in a weekend, you know, or in a week, and they're they're like. Now they're like, hey, maybe I don't do this 70 000 metal roof, maybe I should get a shingle roof. You know, and and we, we saw it happen in real time and um, yeah, to your point, I was questioning the sales process, you know, thinking that there must be something wrong there.
Speaker 2:You know, I was questioning the leads. I was like man, man, what's going on but it and then you started seeing the data come out, that consumer sentiments the lowest it's been since the 1980s or the second lowest, whatever the stat is. But but yeah, consumers are feeling more tight. And even as I talked to my company and you know, like my brother's, like yeah, you know, I stopped putting any more money in the stock market for like a week or two. I just kind of want to see how things shake out. And then, you know, somebody did another person said that I'm like OK, so everybody is now just kind of put a pause on investing, just like anecdotally. Of course, you'd put a pause on spending 20K on a roof, especially if it's now also like a retail roof.
Speaker 2:Where it's I just have a little brown water spot. I, you know it's really, it's just it's. I mean, you know, maybe I'll just wait another until I get my next paycheck and my next paycheck. So all of that little, just that little bit of is is what changes massively your set percentage, your, your close percentage. Um, you know, all of these, all of the leads and the and the sales, because that little bit of of doubt on top of something they already don't want and, yes, maybe don't in their mind need because it's just a little water spot, or it's just 20 years old, it hasn't started leaking yet. You combine all of that together and and you'll see a huge drop off. And that's that's what we're hearing from contractors across the nation and it I'm hearing it not just in the roofing industry.
Speaker 1:I have my ear to a lot of other industries too, and especially around home services and contracting. Boy, it's uh, it's the same everywhere. Um, and so you know the uh, the COVID boom is gone. So you know the COVID boom is gone, and I think everyone needs to come to grips with that. And so you're in a very unique position. How many states are you guys selling in now?
Speaker 2:We're in eight states.
Speaker 1:now, what's that? How many states or markets, because I don't know if you might be in multiple markets in a state.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're in eight states and about 15 markets is where we imagined. And then the parent family brands has another about seven or eight states which we will be selling in those very, very shortly. We actually just that event in St Louis, that hailstorm, we sold probably about 20 or 30 roofs in conjunction with the local brand there, so that that, you know, was our kind of first rollout of of you know prototype test case. It went amazingly well. And so you know, now we imagine we'll stay in our locations. We were opening, like we just opened up Dallas, so we'll keep naturally growing, but we now will have the ability, if ability.
Speaker 1:If something happens in Omaha, you know we would activate, you know, my sales team with that local brand in a combination of their door knocking their mailers. Right, because you know it's not just. Well, we haven't had a storm this year yet, right, like which I think a lot of people are going to start to say. But even like that there's. Give a shout out to one of our sponsors.
Speaker 1:I talk to contractors every day that feel stuck, not because they're not working hard, but because they're missing the structure to grow without chaos or their culture's falling apart, because their team's unclear, unaligned or just burned out clear, unaligned or just burned out. And when change hits they're reacting instead of leading because time and priorities aren't under their control. Day 41 Thrive helps to fix that with proven strategies for growth, culture and leadership that actually work, ready to thrive beyond the storm. Visit the link in the description or visit the Roofing Success podcast website on the sponsors page to start your journey today and having that, having that viewpoint of all of those markets mostly retail for Reimagineer, mostly retail markets, right.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep. And then the other markets are mostly store markets. They're other brands. Yep, the other brands in the portfolio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so it's. It's a. You guys have a unique position. But but, being in specifically retail boy, I've heard uh, we were talking this morning on my call in in rsra one guy was like yeah, the, even the home show was different this year. There wasn't as many conversations. There wasn't. You know, like everything is the writing is on the wall. So now the question to you is what are you going to do about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, and I think that a couple of things are necessary. One is helping homeowners understand that this is a need, not a want. Is helping homeowners understand that this is a need, not a want. Maximizing the amount of attention when you have their attention, meaning twofold. One, when they call in, understanding that they might have enough activation energy there, but after that call in, they might not. If you don't build up even more, they may not show up to the appointment because they're just kind of right on that edge. I don't even know if I, if I should do it, not do it. So I'm really making sure that we maximize the time with homeowners, that when they they are prepared to make that investment of time into seeing if they need a roof, making sure that you have really good evidence, because I think we're starting at a lower point, you know, if we need to, I always think of it as kind of getting somebody to a certain level of activation energy of buying a roof right now. If they were here before and they were going up now, I think they're starting way down here and so, um, they want to even more. So not do it if possible. So we have to have better photo reports we have to have.
Speaker 2:You know education. You know sending out like our videos beforehand to help homeowners understand. You know the consequences of not replacing the roof. And that's the other major thing is that you know waiting has never saved you money in roofing. It literally has anytime you look at, especially over the last four to five years. And it's not just price increases, it's additional plywood damage, it's now drywall damage because you let that little brown water spot now turn into your whole kitchen collapsing. So if you were in a tight position before, like, do you really want to add $2,200 to it interior? And then through all that you waited a quarter and guess what, we have another price increase. So now it's another. You know, $800 on that, you just cost yourself $3,000.
Speaker 2:And so what we've really been working with the team on is helping homeowners make decisions not by roofs, and I think there's a difference in the way you approach it and the way you talk to the homeowner. And now our goal is to help them make that decision first, and then, once they've decided I am going to buy a roof, then we can help them choose the right roof.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome and I like how you put it, like helping them make a good decision or helping homeowners make decisions versus you know, I mean we've, we've, we've shifted a lot into consultative selling over the years. Everyone has, but, even if it feels like you're taking it a step further, is that how you're envisioning it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I look at it kind of like Is that how you're envisioning it? Yeah, I mean I look at it kind of like you know personal training. You know I came into that space before solar and a lot of times you know people would come and you know they'd go through, they'd join the gym, they'd go through that initial like assessment and then they kind of would be like, all right, that's great. Now I, you know they have their little free workout plan. They're like now I know what what I need to do and it's and it's helping them. See, like hey, but you've known that five other times and you're still sitting here today and you haven't achieved your goals. Yes, maybe you need help, um, and taking just that extra convert, like that extra um.
Speaker 2:You know um alex ramosi says um, the only thing that separates manipulation and helping people is intent um. And you know um Alex Ramosi says um, the only thing that separates manipulation and helping people is intent Um. And you know, even if you're, I used to manipulate people into going to personal training, but because they had failed five times before and I saved them from getting on diabetes medicine and they had never been happier and they made more money at work and all, and they were thrilled with it. But at the end of the day, you know if you could call it manipulation, um, but I think the difference is in a tent and we have to be okay, asking the hard questions and kind of pushing on homeowners that are you really going to wait? Is that really what's in your best interest? Um, you've seen the photos. Your, your roof's not going to get any better shape, um, you know, and asking some of those hard questions and being a little bit more suggestive and being a little bit more, you know, some people would call it pushy, but I would say I would call it honest, um, and I think in the past, because people were like here, take my money, it was a lot more just like oh yeah, you're definitely going to buy a roof.
Speaker 2:Okay, great, here's why I'm awesome. And then they would sometimes pick us. But now a lot, of, a lot of people I mean literally just in the last two to three months they're thinking what's in their best interest is waiting six months, and if you're a roof professional and you know that roof is 21 years old, it's not in their best interest. We're gonna have another price increase, you know they're gonna get more interior damage and they're gonna be in the same place they are now. Interest rates aren't going to change much. Nothing's going to change in six months, except it's going to go up a little bit more. And so they need to do the roof today and if if we have to, you know, be a little forceful with it, obviously in a professional manner then we're still doing what's best for them, and I I firmly believe that and this is so.
Speaker 1:Now I think the challenge becomes and this is I'd love your advice on this for, for the listeners and you know you talked about it's coaching your sales team to have those conversations because they can get uncomfortable. Don't like to get uncomfortable. It's much easier, cody, to just say but I'll give you a free roof for the cost of your deductible, like it's just a, it's, it's just so much nicer, right Then then having to having to tell someone look, this is this is really what, what's going to happen, this is what the real problem is. I hope I can help you see where you're really going with your decision. That can get uncomfortable. How are you developing your sales team to have those more challenging, more uncomfortable conversations?
Speaker 2:more, uh, uncomfortable conversations. Um, it's role play. I mean a hundred percent um role play. And I, and what I would say to kind of your first point of that, um, the sales personality that that just wants to do the roof for the deductible, that's going to get uncomfortable really quick as well. Um, because on these, like I said, we just worked this St Louis storm, um, we had one one, the highest deductible we saw was 15 000. We had an 8900 deductible, a 7600 um, I mean these, these are retail roof price prices almost for a deductible. Um, and that storm, you know, demolished siding and roofing. So you know it's a 30, 40 000 claim and the guy has a 15 000 deductible. It's not like he can go out there and, you know, replace some window screens on his own and cover his deductible. It's, it's, you're good. You have to be comfortable having these tough conversations because that's that's the space we're living in now. I, I and we're going to see more and more of it. But that was, this was the first term. We worked, 've done stuff, you know, after the hurricane in florida, and we saw sometimes here and there, but this was the first one where it was just like almost, and these weren't, these weren't huge homes, I mean, it was like a quarter million dollar home, like 250 300 000 home, uh, with, with a you know nine thousand dollar deductible. So I can only imagine, you know, when that first storm hit dallas and it's a you know 70 square roof, do they have a 25 000 deductible? Um, so that is it's here. I mean, people, we've been talking about an rsra, you've seen it on like facebook, etc. But this was the first storm where it was like every other one. Uh, we were expecting, we started expecting, you know, three, four, five thousand dollar deductibles, um, and we're surprised when it was a thousand. So, yeah, um, and it. But it really comes down to role play and just, you know, having the just reps, reps, reps of that one specific you know conversation, like one little thing that we just implemented is we used to ask at the end of kind of our presentation, we'd say hey, on a scale of one to 10, how would you rate your experience so far? And let's say they would say nine or ten, with you know a trial close. We would say, okay, sounds like you really want to do business with reimagined roofing. Um, now we've changed it to sounds like you've made the decision to use reimagined roofing. So we put a little bit more of oomph in it to to psychologically in their brain say, yes, I made the decision now to to work with reimagine and then they they confirm it. So little things like that is is how we've been working to uh, but that's uncomfortable to say to somebody, because what if they say no? You know, what if they say no, like you know? Then what do I do? And then okay, great, let's role play it, you know. And so, um, just, but then then getting having the team role play that one sentence 10 times, 15 times, 20 times, so it feels comfortable when they say it, rather than you know, role play the whole presentation one time and only role play that you know that that ending one time as well, like, no, let's role play the uncomfortable spot 20 times, so then you're comfortable when it comes up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get comfortable in the uncomfortable Cause it's, you know, and, and that that those are the most critical aspects, right? Um, I think that's the biggest challenge. And then what, what, what's? What's really challenging, you know, I mean from a, from a human perspective is is like we just get worried that they're, we're worried what they're going to say, and we've heard all of the rest of the conversation and we're to this point now and it's time to say it, and it's time to get it out of your mouth, and it's time to get it out of your mouth very confidently, because the homeowner will smell fear the way you say it. And so, um, what, I think an advantage that you have. Then you said, like, because your team is all in house, um, all the calls are recorded. Um, you know how? How are you, as a uh, in managing that process? Are you, are you know how? How? How, how much effort are you putting into? Uh, you know, reviewing those calls? Are you using some ai tools to help you review the calls? What are you doing there?
Speaker 2:yep, yep. So we, you, we do use some ai. Uh, they put their their call transcripts into uh chat gpt and then it um, we have like a format that we put in a chat GPT that says, hey, this is what it's supposed to be like, and then it will spit out the formula along with analysis as well. So that's good. The other thing is really self-assessments as well. Like, actually, the team right now is on self-assessments, so they listen to their own calls.
Speaker 2:And then the new thing that I just started this week is uh, once a week they have to pitch in my office. So I set up a little like uh pitch station, um, that, they that. So once a week they have to come in there and pitch live um, I, we still listen to calls and etc. But I want them to feel a little bit of that tension, a little bit of that, you know, like that adrenaline. It's like okay, um, you know, look alive, um that. But but then also, each week they bring their best call and their worst call um to be evaluated by the sales manager.
Speaker 2:So bring me what you think is your absolute best call, and if that's a C, okay we have problems. You know, um, like, if you think this is your best um, so at least I know what you think is supposed to be happening, because then it gives me insight. Okay, are the other ones you're just not following? Or do you honestly think that on question number three, you should say this you know, or so it gives us insight into? Like, hey, do we need more training or do we need more effort? And I always think that's important to understand. And then the worst call goes know, gives us insight into, okay, let's figure out. How did this become?
Speaker 2:The worst call and that's what we really try to train on is like, let's listen to it. Okay, you see, right here, this is where the guy started asking you the questions. He could hear the fear in your voice and then, from six minutes to 32 minutes, you just got completely bulldogged every single step of the way, like this. But this is what happened right here. At five minutes and 45 seconds to 601, you lost control right here. And then look what happened right here, we don't need to listen to the other 26 minutes, like. We just like don't do this next time.
Speaker 2:All right, awesome, let's go. You know, um and and like that. That's the benefit of, uh, you know, having those recorded calls is like we can just look at that and see this is exactly what happened. And then, once that happens, like you'll never do it again, you know. It's like it'll just be like, ok, man, you see that, coming 100 miles out, if anybody ever tries to kind of take control of the call again or you know you stumbled or whatever the situation was, it's just it becomes a real learning experience.
Speaker 1:Definitely. I love the I. I love the idea of that that you brought in. I think it was a big aha moment. Was this, is this was my best call? Letting them say this was my best call. And then you're grading that call and you're like, oh, that's an expectation, right? A lot of times people will feel that they're doing better than they are and and we'll. You know that that that's a big one for teams out in the field. I think of like.
Speaker 1:There's devices like plod that you could hook up, but it's like a little microphone thing that just records everything that's going on into an app in your phone. You have the more sophisticated stuff like Rilla and and and those, uh, those, what's the other one there? You know that, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, like there's. You know there's those types of like. There's those that could be used as simple as the voice recorder app on your phone Yep, and it doesn't have to get complex. Turn on the voice recorder app. Yep, and it doesn't have to get complex. Turn on the voice recorder app. Record the conversation. Take that It'll. A lot of the voice recorder apps will do a transcript for you. If it won't, you just pop in. You know you drop it in somewhere to do a transcript and then drop that and start to start to be able to diagnose that. So I would say, if you have a team that is not in office, like Cody's you know, put some simple things in place that could replicate this in your sales process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with an Engage presentation as well. If you use Engage, it measures the time on each slide. So you know, if on this slide you're supposed to ask one question and we spent 17 minutes on it probably a little bit of insight into that. This is probably where things went left, so you know, if you can combine, engage with the recording even better. You know, yeah, that. So there's other like presentation software, that has that benefit too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's great advice too. That's great advice too, and I think that this is what kind of back to the beginning of the conversation, when we were talking about like everyone's worried about. Like man, do our leads suck? Do the Google why these Google LSAs are down a lot? What's going on? I know you're enjoying the episode, but let's give a shout out to another one of our sponsors.
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Speaker 1:Kind of back to the beginning of the conversation, when we were talking about like everyone's worried about like man, do our leads suck? Do the Google why these Google LSAs are down a lot. What's going on? Like a lot of times, the juice isn't in your marketing, the juice is in the process. From the time the phone rings, through that sales conversation, and and and you, you can have big, big gaps there, that that make your marketing spend very inefficient, and so so getting really detailed and and and. For those of you that have never gotten this detailed, this is who you're competing against, so start like put some effort into it. You know you can't just go out and hire people and hope it's not a good business strategy. You know it's tough.
Speaker 2:Another piece of advice I'd give during this, this time period, would be speed as well. Um, just, you know the old saying time heals all wounds. The first time you have that little water spot on your ceiling, it's the end of the world. Your house is collapsing. You know, do we have to get a hotel tonight? Like, ah, you know, um, three days later it's just a little brown spot. You know, a week later it's like hasn't that been there the whole time? It was there when we moved in. So, you know, every if you present.
Speaker 2:Now, eight days later, I'm not as motivated anymore. You know it's. It's. I'm just like, yeah, well, you know, but if it happened last night and you called me this morning and we're talking later today and we go over the photo report and I show you the photos, that, hey, now, this is what you're seeing inside, this is what's happening on the rooftop, you're like I knew my whole home was going to collapse. I knew it. Ah, you know.
Speaker 2:And then it's like all right, I gotta get something done. Um, because we're right next to what just happened. That gave you enough activation energy to call me. But every single day you're going to start that's going to drop down. And then also if you, if you think about the other people you're competing against, if I get my quote, if they call it Monday and we speak Monday, um, if, if you're not till Friday, they might not even sit down with you. But also, if now you stretch a week out to get them a quote, maybe now they get five quotes instead of three. Or maybe now they take two weeks to make a decision instead of three days. Or maybe now they take two months instead of two weeks. You're giving them the perception and kind of the permission to take longer to make that decision. You're like, hey, don't, it's not a big deal. Versus with us, it's like, no, your roof is leaking, that's a huge deal, we should get this taken care of tomorrow and they go okay, yeah, I want to get it taken care of tomorrow.
Speaker 1:And we can. Okay, now I'm matching your urgency. Yeah, that's great advice because, yeah, it's crazy how fast the urgency fades. We just talked about some of the stock market dipping and people freaking out. I'm already seeing people feel like, oh well, it wasn't that bad, like, oh, maybe I yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you know it's just the way. It is Just going to go up and down.
Speaker 1:We're good, I'll be in the middle. Yeah, we're all right now. Right, but in the moment, oh my, my gosh, like you know, the world is collapsing. So there's a lot to that as how. What have you seen? You guys do a lot of marketing. I know you do a lot of LSAs. You do a lot of a lot of other marketing stuff. What have you seen from the marketing side of things? And then I know that you went to a conference recently where a lot of big time marketers and big time lead aggregation companies were. You know you got to hear some conversations going on there. What is it? Let's move to that lead side. You know you got to squeeze the juice and I implore people to do that. Create the urgency of everything that you get. Make sure that you treat that as the last lead you'll ever get in your life. But now, what's the landscape looking like from the lead gen side?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean from us personally. We're seeing a huge drop in the number of leads. Whether you want to look at it know my cost per lead has gone up, or you know lsa leads have gone down. You know, either way, it's both an indication that less people are buying stuff or even less people are even looking to potentially buy stuff. You know, um, and, and you know I went to leads con, which is, you know, the roof con just for leads. Didn't even know it existed, but it was actually really cool and you know it was interesting because, like all the biggest sponsors, like none of them I've ever heard about, it's like a step above the people that you hear about, because the people you hear about are the ones that resell, like their stuff, like at the very very top. So these guys are generating, you know, 10,000, 100,000 clicks a day At the very, very top. So these guys are generating, you know, 10,000, 100,000 clicks a day, and then it filters out to all the resellers that then, you know, eventually sell it down to us for our 10 leads a day, and so you know, what they mentioned is just is exactly that that they're seeing because they have, you know, a ton of different aggregator sites that you know the same person will put info in, you know, to multiple sites and they're seeing an increase in the number of forms for submissions per person, uh, which is the same thing that I'm personally seeing with my team. The same thing that other RSRI members have mentioned is that, instead of getting two or three quotes, people are getting, you know, four or five and six. Um, you know, and so it's. It's.
Speaker 2:When people have this kind of, you know, uncertainty and fear, it's like, well, let me just get one more so I don't have to make a decision. You know that's, and and it's it's the same number of people looking for stuff, but just looking for more people. So, uh, to more companies, and so, um, they mentioned, um, you know, in a couple of of the panels that it's going to be really important to have your intake process dialed in, because it's going to be, you know, the more people fighting over a smaller pool, and I think we're going to really, really see a massive shift in the amount of lead volume over. I mean, we're already seeing it now, but really over the next six months. I mean we're already seeing it now, but really over the next six months, you know, I think it's going to more and more is going to is going to come through on your cost per lead, increasing your quality of leads going down. Because you know how we judge a quality of a lead is how many other roofers have they spoken to, you know, and how long have they been looking for a roof.
Speaker 2:Well, if, naturally, the average homeowner is now going to talk to five people and take a month to make a decision, instead of talk to three, make it in a week. All of us are going to say that same exact lead that last week we were like yeah, I want this lead, is now like not a very good lead, it's a tire kicker, because they've already gotten four quotes and so, psychologically, you're going to go into it thinking it's a tire kicker, when that same person would have been in your pipeline with two quotes, you know, six months ago and you would have went in like, oh, I'm the last man in here. Three, the third quote, this is perfect, you know, um. So I would just kind of say for everybody to to expect that um and to to be more prepared for that Um, and it's just yeah, it's happening at the largest levels. Um, everybody was talking about it at Leeds Con. You know it's going to be a challenge, you know, over the rest of this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the interesting aspect of it that you mentioned is it's stretching out the buying process, and is that what made you kind of make a shift in focus to like helping them more with making that decision faster and creating urgency on that in the intake kind of aspect and through the sales process?
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. It's now what we really tell the sales team is like we're there to help them make a decision and then, once they make a decision, then we're there to help them choose reagine. Um, and kind of really shifting that that thought process of making it almost like a two-stage close um and spending even more time on the front end of of talking about those things. And also you know, jordan Belfort talks about it um is is being honest with yourself, meaning when you ask a question, um, listening to the true response, and a lot of times in sales they'll go okay, yeah, this looks great, I'll call you back. And you're like, you hear all this fear and trepidation in the voice or you see it like if you're in person, but the words say great, I'll call you back. And you just down, you know, deep down, you know that that is not a firm call you back, that's not, that's not a good way, and like but you just go, ok, great. And you close up, you know, or asking, hey, based on this photo report you just looked at you know what, how do you feel about your roof now? Oh, it doesn't look good, ok, great. And then you're moving on instead of hanging out like, well, do you see why a repair might not be possible? Like, do you? Does that? Do you really understand what we're looking at here? Did you get a chance to um, you'll watch the video beforehand and getting them to really understand that they they have to get a new roof?
Speaker 2:Um, if that's the situation where they have to make the repair or they have to open the claim, whatever it is, and then once they've decided, okay, I have to open the claim or okay, I have to replace my roof, you know, then we can talk about okay, here's why we're the best solution for you.
Speaker 2:Um, but, but we have only really talked to customers in the past that had already made that decision. There was always some offense, but it was like 10, 10, 20 percent, and now it's more than half. Um, you know, and it's the same like on the metal side as well. We've we've added in conversations with the homeowners that, hey, if you're like a lot of my homeowners now, they're a little bit unsure about making this large of an investment, you know, would it be helpful if we looked at shingle quotes as well? And a lot of times they're saying yeah, yeah, yeah, that I, yeah, I just didn't want to dealership and I feel like a bum asking for a Ford and we got to be like no, no, I got Fords in the back too, don't worry, don't worry.
Speaker 1:We're hiding them. We're hiding them back here, but you know we got them for you.
Speaker 2:That's what you're looking for. I'm just trying to sell you a car. You know, either way you got to get the roof. You know, and and just, but.
Speaker 2:But be willing to have that conversation and, like you know, ask that question, like, um, and just just be a lot, you know, honest and straight up and say a lot of people are, are struggling with this decision. Are you in that same boat? Um, and and. Then once you say like, then people just dump and, and now you're. Now they're just telling you, oh yeah, I wasn't really sure about this. This, okay, well, let's talk more about financing. Um, yeah, you mentioned that, but I just didn't really want to.
Speaker 2:And, and they, they, you know, and now they, they express the real underlying issues of what's going on, and then we can help work them through it and help show them that, yeah, okay, you're scared, but guess what? You're going to be scared in two months and you're risking more expensive. So what? Two months and you're risking more expensive? So what do you want to do? You know, like it's just, there's not, there's no real other path. If you have a 21 year old roof, you're going to live in this house for the next 10 years. There's, there's no other.
Speaker 1:There's no other solution besides getting the roof done, and anything besides doing it, you know, in the next seven days or you know um is, puts you at risk I think there's another side to this, that that that, uh, sales reps in this industry are going to push on Um, and that is they're going to try to sell to people who don't want to buy um, or who they feel don't want to buy or um. Maybe I'm not putting it right, but it just came to my mind. Like, like you said early on in the conversation, not everyone is your customer and so are you trying to more quickly determine if they're in buy mode now, um, or because if you don't have an, if you don't have a lot of opportunities in front of you, sometimes you try to overdo the opportunities you have.
Speaker 2:if that is that making sense where I'm going with this, like 100 yeah, yeah yeah and yeah and so, but I think also, yeah, it kind of comes with those honest conversations. You know, um, if you're following up with billy bob for the 92nd time, um, you know, are you really having an honest conversation when you talk to Billy Bob? Are you having an honest conversation with yourself? Or, deep down inside, do you know that Billy Bob's not signing for this roof? And you knew that? You know, 13 contact attempts ago. But you don't have many other leads, you don't feel like knocking doors and so you're just going to keep calling Billy Bob. You know, and, and I, and I think during these times, um, whether you're a business owner or a sales rep, you really have to focus on on being truthful about what's in your pipeline.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, both for for crews, for for employees, for overhead, um, you know, um for salespeople, like, if you don't have enough of a pipeline, you we need, you need to be calling on general contractors or you know builders or insurance agents or wherever else you know real estate agents. Wherever else you could you'd be normally getting a roof from. You might need to do a little bit more prospecting. If you're getting all of your leads provided for you right now, you might need to be prepared that it's going to be 60 40 in the future, because you know, consider yourself lucky that you've gotten all those leads up to this point. No-transcript. Is that meaning that you're not calling the new one that just came in? Or is that meaning you're not out there prospecting or doing whatever else, um, or calling your referrals, um, et cetera, um, you know, because you're you're kind of just staying busy with the easiest thing possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what. That's what I think a lot of sales reps will do is just stay busy with the easiest thing possible, not not do the hard thing. All right, so it's kind of to bring it all together. If you, you know, if you, you know you're coaching one of the RSR eight team, uh, you know members of the RSR RA, one of the companies, and they're like Cody, what man, all this is going on. You got a couple minutes with me. What? What the heck should I do? You got a couple minutes with me. What?
Speaker 2:the heck should I do? You should be the best at what you are, meaning that if you are a $2 million company and it's Bob's Roofing and you're Bob, you need to lean into that Because, guess what? Right now, bob can offer better prices than the PE-backed firms. And, mr Homeowner, do you really want to support the big man right now versus the little guy that's just trying to support the local community, bob blah, if you're the big guy, hey, guess what? Do you really want to go with? Bob? Who's right now Really really uh, difficult economic times.
Speaker 2:Businesses are going out of, out of uh, business left and right. Is Bob going to be around in the next three years or the next three months? Even? You know, um, but you can't be Bob trying to be the big guy. You can't be the big guy trying to be Bob Um.
Speaker 2:You have to just be who you are, um, and then really maximize that Um you know. Be the best version of whatever size company you are, whatever your your go-to is, whatever your story is, whatever makes you special and the best. There's something that you do better than anybody else in your market or top five or top three. Figure out what that is. Scream it from the rooftops, no pun intended. And and let every customer know if you want this. This is what I am.
Speaker 2:Um, and don't try to be something you're not, because customers now are even more guarded in the last 90 days and so they're going to be even more suspicious. They're going to be, they're going to you know, and if you're not honest, you're not truthful, if they see through it, they'll never go with you. So better to be true to yourself and just be. You know unabashedly what you are, and then customers will love the authentic nature of it. And some want to buy from the big boys, some want to buy from the locals, some want to buy from the mid people, some want to buy online, some want to buy, you know, sitting in somebody's home. Some want to buy Owens Corning, some want to buy JF, you know, but nobody wants to buy from somebody that's a liar or somebody that's not honest and you go and fake the funk for so long and you just can't do it reliably.
Speaker 2:So just be true to who you are, lean into it, be even more of who you are right now and be even better at what you can offer. Step it up even more and try to put some things out there that make you unique and that really emphasize what makes you special as a contracting company.
Speaker 1:That's awesome, man, great advice. This has been another episode of the Roofing Success Podcast.
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