Roofing Success
The Roofing Success Podcast is a show created to inspire roofing contractors to achieve optimal success in their roofing businesses. The host, Jim Ahlin, is the co-author of the book, "Internet Marketing For Roofing Contractors, How to TRIPLE Your Sales and Turn Your Roofing Website Into an Online Lead Generation Machine", and Co-Founder of Roofer Marketers, the Digital Marketing Agency for the roofing industry. On each episode, Jim will be sitting down with industry leaders to talk about their processes, the lessons they learned, and how to find success in roofing.
Roofing Success
The Art of Saying No: The Sales Secret 97% of Roofers Miss with Dashaun Bryant
You’re not losing sales because of price. You’re losing them because you avoid the word “no.”
In this interview with the one and only Dashaun Bryant, we unpack the real reason most roofing sales reps miss deals — and how learning the Art of Saying No could change everything.
Dashaun breaks down why “no” is the second-best answer in sales, how to get it early, and why reps MUST stop running from hard conversations like contingencies, deductibles, and paperwork. You'll hear the exact frameworks he's using to train teams nationwide — saving them time, weeding out the wrong customers, and closing more of the right deals.
Plus:
- Why conversations is better than presentations
- How to flip objections BEFORE they come up
- The “door-to-door proclamations” to own the sale
- What it really means to love the game
If you want to become a dangerous rep who owns the block, controls the sale, and gets chosen for how you lead — you need this episode.
Links:
https://roofhustlers.com
🤖 Have a question? Ask this customized ChatGPT for the answer! Specifically designed for this episode, it’s here to help! https://roofingpod.com/chatgpt-270
Listen to the episode on Spotify & Apple Podcasts (270) 👇
🎧 https://roofingpod.com/spotify
🍏 https://roofingpod.com/apple-podcasts
PODCAST SPONSORS:
- The Roofing & Solar Reform Alliance: https://roofingpod.com/RSRA
- PowerUp Agents AI: https://roofingpod.com/power-up-agents-ai
- Day 41 Thrive: https://roofingpod.com/day-41-thrive
IG: https://www.instagram.com/roofingsuccess/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/groups/roofingsuccess
Join Our Facebook Group: https://roofingpod.com/facebook
📱 Text Jim @ (612) 512-1812 – Say Hi!
💬 Leave Us a Review: https://roofingpod.com/review
You're not losing sales because of price competition or bad leads. You're losing them because you haven't mastered the art of no. And that's exactly what Deshaun Bryant is here to teach. In this episode, we're diving into the mindset, language and frameworks that drive top-tier sales performance with the one and only Deshaun Bryant one and only Deshaun Bryant From the art of the know to mastering word precision. This is a deep dive into what it really takes to become unforgettable in the roofing industry and in life.
Speaker 1:Deshaun Bryant is the founder of Roof Hustlers, a coach in the Roofing and Solar Reform Alliance and the visionary behind the Best Hustler Experience and Best Hustler Academy. He's trained thousands of reps across the country and continues to elevate the game through tactical sales, training, personal development and unapologetic authenticity. Deshaun's journey isn't just about sales. It's about growth. From struggling with street slang and early sales calls to obsessing over word economy and emotional intelligence, his evolution is a case study in what loving the game really looks like. Whether it's parenting, diet or knocking doors, deshaun applies systems and intention to every part of his life. So if you want to master the language of influence, build unshakable confidence and become the kind of rep who owns the room and the block. This episode is your blueprint. Let's get into it with Deshaun Bryant. Welcome to the Roofing Success Podcast. I'm Jim Alleyne and I'm here to bring you insights from top leaders in the roofing industry to help you grow and scale your roofing business. Deshaun.
Speaker 2:Bryant back again. Yes, sir, man, I appreciate it, appreciate it, honored, and a privilege and a pleasure to be back. It's always nice to see your face, man. It's always nice to be on the podcast, and sometimes I got to get out of my own head right, because I'd be like man, it's like my fourth time being on the podcast, or third, fourth time. I'm like man, jim, I'm tired of hearing from me, man. So I'd be like, let me try to let somebody else get on it.
Speaker 1:We just always have a good conversation. So it's like we got to come back every every six months or so, come back to it and have some more um, because I know, I know your work, the work that you put in and the sessions that you do over at the rsra and the, the stuff you're doing with best hustler academy like there's a continuous evolution and so so I really enjoy. I really enjoy that and uh, and, and there's always something new to talk about we're talking man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's important evolving again.
Speaker 1:Yeah the evolution and one of the things that you seem from us. We had a conversation a week or so ago and you were talking about training on the art of the no, and I thought, man, that's a good, people need to hear that. So how can someone build the skill set around the art of the nose?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so what? What really inspired this was? You know, I fly around the country and I coach and train numerous door-to-door sales teams. Right, and I started noticing that sales guys were losing control of the sales process. So they would be, like you know, one, three, four layers deep into the sales process and now the homeowner is starting to flip it on them with deductible talk or they want estimates, or, you know, they're trying to figure out what the sales reps is going to do for them outside of just helping them get a new, a brand new roof.
Speaker 2:So I went to like really assessing and studying the way these sales reps been working and I'm like what's the gap? I'm like, ah, first of all, these guys have no process. Second of all, they're running away from the of all. They're running away from the word no. So they run away from the word no and don't confuse the word no with an objection Right? So I don't want to. I don't want nobody up on my roof. I want my race to go up, I don't want to get dropped. Like.
Speaker 2:That's not what I mean by chasing the art of the note. Like the art of the note, what I mean by chasing the note is if there is something to kill this deal, let's get it out the way early. I mean before we even do a roof inspection, before we sign paperwork, before we get the insurance company involved, before we get to this place of picking our shingles and all of these things. If no is to kill the deal, let's get it out the way early. So no is the second best answer you can hear in the sales process, whether you believe it or not. And sales reps don't believe that. They're like, oh, when I hear the word no, that means the sales is over, and I'm like, actually, when you get the word no out earlier, you save yourself a lot of time, money and resources. So, as I've been studying this, it's a phenomenal book called the Art the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, the Win Without Pitching Manifesto, right. And what I've learned, jim, is people read books, but people don't study books, right, they read a book, put it down another book. So I done read the book once. I went back this time and I studied the book. So I really started studying this art of getting to the know sooner than later.
Speaker 2:So now what we've been teaching sales reps is the door to door proclamations right, the door to door proclamations, which allows us to get to the nose faster than just begging for business, right? Just throwing up a sales pitch and hoping somebody say yes, when it actually now we're having conversations over presentations for business, right? Just throwing up a sales pitch and hoping somebody say yes, when actually now we're having conversations over presentations, right? So the purpose of the conversation is for us to first of all establish the rules of engagement, to see if you're going to allow me to serve you in the way I see best fit possible, and if you ain't going to even allow me to lead the sales process the way I want to lead it, from start to finish, let's just get to this. No, now, let's just get to this. It don't even make sense for us to move forward, no more. It don't even make sense for us to even go to that next step, because you're not going to allow me to be the practitioner and take over this process. And, unconsciously, what sales reps don't understand is the homeowner wants to feel slightly vetted. They want you to show that, hey, you got a process, you got a routine, you got a way of doing things right and as they see you, just as they see you start to step into your expertise, they actually lower their guard, they take a step back and they let you take over the sales process. Right, so I'm teaching guys to get to the no sooner. We reversing the roles of the objection, right? So if we know a homeowner got anywhere between a one to three percent object uh deductible we saying hey. So, mr jim, the average deductible we typically deal with is anywhere between two to seven thousand dollars. I just want to make sure you're comfortable with making that type of commitment before we even move forward. No, I don't think I can handle that type of commitment. Even if we was to offer you financing and show you a way you could pay that for 24 months, zero interest. No, that ain't something I want to do. Completely understand. Hey, I hope you find somebody else that can better serve you. Here go my business card. If you change your mind, you give me a holler. Let's get to the no sooner than later, instead of now. I done. Got you approved, jim. Now I'm at your kitchen table picking our shingle colors and now you're like oh, I can't cover my deductible and now it's my responsibility to overcome that objection. Versus, if I bring that objection up first. Now you got to overcome the objection right.
Speaker 2:We teach sales reps to do little minor things that give them so much control, like this, when you got a sales rep that say, not a sales rep, an owner that say, well, I don't sign no paperwork, I don't sign no paperwork. Well, completely understand, mr Jim. The thing about it is we're not able to help you at the highest level. It's actually company policy that we can't move no further in this process unless we get this paperwork signed. Now it's no longer emotional, it's just company policy. Right, it's a part of being in control of the sales process. And all of these tactics and strategies that we teach in guys now are to help you get to the know sooner so you can properly vet out your homeowners, so you can have selectivity with who you decide to do business with and everybody you do decide to do business with. And we move forward in this process is 10 times smoother because we did everything to get the know out sooner than dealing with it too later in the sales process, because we did everything to get the note out sooner than dealing with it too later in the sales process. So these be some some new things I've been teaching the sales reps man, and it's been fun because, before we move on because I know we're going to impact this One thing I've been reminded my sales reps right is that your homeowner worked hard to get that house.
Speaker 2:They worked hard to buy their car, they worked hard to be in a position to lead their family right. So, even though it's in their nature to be in control in this situation, it's not in their best interest. So what you got to understand as a sales rep your homeowner going to naturally want to lead the process, because that's what got them to where they are at in their life right now, because they've been able to take control and lead things. But you got to understand, you got to stand your ground as that sales rep and understand that if we are to get to the best result possible, I got to stay in control, I got to lead this thing from start to finish and if we are to get to the no and it is to kill the deal let's get to it sooner than later to get to the no and it is to kill the deal.
Speaker 1:Let's get to it sooner than later, would you say the the, the biggest no's what I heard deductible signing the contract. What are some other no's that you're getting out of the way sooner than later?
Speaker 2:um, so we we dealing with the and and then within our process. Right, because we do a lot of storm restoration. Those are some of the main ones. Homeowners don the main ones. Homeless don't want to sign contingencies. Don't want to sign contingencies.
Speaker 2:We try to get that out of the way sooner than later. Money, as far as, like, they can't afford certain deductibles, right, sometimes they might have needs that we can't fulfill and we don't want to tell them no. So we'll dance around it and get further in the process, even though we know we we don't got the resources. Like their needs and our expertise don't align together, right? Um, sometimes it's distance. Homeowner live two hours and 30 minutes away. Instead of you saying no, you out my jurisdictions, I can send you a referral. You driving two hours and 30 minutes to go. Take care of this homeowner, and that's a reason why it possibly don't make sense for us to move forward. Also, they're not allowing you to leave the process. That's a no.
Speaker 2:We want to get out of the way early, sooner than later. Will they let you be the expert that you need to be to get them to the results that they want, or are they going to try to take over the sales process and make your life miserable. So these are all some things that you got to address early, in a sense of like conversation over collaboration. I mean a conversation over presentation. When we having a conversation with our homeowner, we set the rules of engagement from the get-go.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do an outside inspection, I'm going to get up on your roof and check out, you know, the damage up on your home. After that we're going to come inside the house and look for interior damage as well. Do you have any suggestions or any recommendations before I decide to move forward with my process? In the beginning of the sales process, that's when you open up for your homeowners to have recommendations or suggestions. If they don't have any recommendations or suggestions on the front end, they gave you the freedom of execution. But most sales reps don't do those things. On the front end, they wore everything down and the homeowner just step in and take over control any chance they can.
Speaker 1:That was a nugget right there and that was where I was going with it. What are the steps to confirming that the homeowner is allowing you to have control? And that was you know what other? Is that the frame right there?
Speaker 2:That's the questions, do you have any other Yep, any suggestions? Anything before I get started.
Speaker 1:Yep. No, I don't yeah what if they do have suggestions. Yeah, what if they do have suggestions now, hey, I do want you to this, I want you there, I want, I want, I have a suggestion about this and that. What? Where is that your beginning? And is that in, uh, you know, in a in a, in a, in the framework of over overcoming objections? Then those become objections in your, in the control of the of the conversation. Conversation, what, how do you, how are you treating that?
Speaker 2:that's a great question, right. So now, now we open it up to collaboration, because the problem with most sales rep, jim, is they go into presentation mode. Well, it's a one-sided conversation where they telling the homeowner everything they're going to do, right, versus when you stay in control of the process. We have a conversation. So now we're going back and forth in dialogue. Is there any other suggestions or recommendations?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I noticed this going on. I want to get this taken care of. I want to do this right Now. We got this opportunity to talk about these things on the front end. Right, okay, I can handle deciding, I can handle this. I can handle this part of the process. We don't do this, but we are able to help you with this. So I'm able to handle four out of the six things that you want to get taken care of. Does that sound good? Yeah, no, I'm cool with all of those things. All right, now I'm about to go ahead and get my process started.
Speaker 2:Just Just want to make sure all these things make sense because, also, one thing we address, jim, in the beginning for the conversation that opens it to collaboration is, once I come inside the house, I'm a look for interior damage. Once all of these things are confirmed and I feel like it's enough damage worth moving forward, the next step is we're going to cover some basic paperwork that is going to be required for us to take these next steps forward. So I'm telling them every step of the process we having a conversation, not a presentation, once I address all of these things that they could potentially say no to on the front end, if they say no to nothing. They gave me the freedom of execution and I've got all of my potential objections out of the way before I even got into the process. Yeah, most of my homeowners, mr Jim, they sign this thing what we like to call a contingency agreement which allows us to help them through the process at the highest level possible. I want to make sure you're not going to have any issues with that. Oh no, that's how we can help. This is how you guys do your job the best. I'm fine with that, sounds good and that's like I said. I'm giving you the freedom of execution.
Speaker 2:So one thing I've learned to have me looking at this with sales rep, this is how they typically do it. Hey, we get up to give you a quick 10 minute inspection and then we'll let you know where we go from there. That's it. We'll give you a quick 10 minute inspection. We let you know where we go from there. We let you know where we go from there and the rules of engagement haven't been established. So now, when they come down and they're trying to take these necessarily next steps, the homeowner starts stepping in and roadblocking everything and they're trying to take control. And now they're hitting you with objections. I don't really want to sign paperwork Now. You got to overcome that objection. Why do they need to sign paperwork Now? They last said they're going to help me with my deductible. Now you gotta overcome that objection. How you gonna overcome? So I've been learning. We got to reverse the roles of the objection, which is you bring these things up first. You make your homeowner overcome your objections, versus you trying to overcome their objections.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome it sounds in another conversation that we've had was the mindfulness of words, and that's what really remind that. This is where, like, as you're saying these things, it's like you're very mindful with the language that you're using. Speak on the mindfulness of words and eliminating, eliminating that the unnecessary in words, in your language and in your in your conversations. Before we carry on with the episode, let's give a shout out to one of our sponsors. I talk to contractors every day that feel stuck, not because they're not working hard, but because they're missing the structure to grow without chaos or their culture's falling apart, because their team's unclear, unaligned or just burned out and when change hits, they're reacting instead of leading because time and priorities aren't under their control. Day 41 Thrive helps to fix that with proven strategies for growth, culture and leadership that actually work, ready to thrive beyond the storm. Visit the link in the description or visit the Roofing Success Podcast website on the sponsors page to start your journey today.
Speaker 2:Speak on the mindfulness of words and eliminating the unnecessary words in your language and in your in your conversations no, that's, that's beautiful, right, because sales reps, the, the veterans understand this or the really good guys understand this, but the new guys within that year to three year range is well, first of all, let's take it back to the beginning. Always ask people who taught you how to use the words, phrases and like statements that you use. And most people be like what you mean? Who taught me? I'm like, who taught you? It's like I don't know school, my parents I said no, nobody taught you. You just picked the shit up. You just heard people saying things and you just kept repeating it. Right, it's funny because all of us say are you you sure? And I always ask people who taught you to use that? Like you know what I'm saying. Like who taught you to say hey, when they say this, say, are you sure? Yeah, like nobody's taught us that statement. So over the past five years, I've been obsessed with like how do you become more precise, concise, directional and destinational when you have conversations with people? So I'm a word. I try to be my best to be very attentive to words and be a word Smith. So I'm like how do I cut out the fluff, let alone the doubt, when I communicate with my homeowners. So I recently read this book called when I communicate with my homeowners. So I recently read this book called Argue Less, talk More the Next Conversation. It's a whole book on how to have proper arguments. And then, as I'm reading the book, I thought about it. I'm like who taught us how to argue? You know? Like who taught you how to argue? Nobody never taught you how to argue. That's why when you get in arguments, it go from zero to a hundred, because nobody never taught us that the purpose of an argument isn't to get to a solution, it's just to have a good enough conversation to have the next conversation. You know, I'm saying that's the purpose. Let's let's have a healthy enough conversation to get to the next conversation. So now I'm studying this stuff. I'm like whoa.
Speaker 2:Sales reps love to use unnecessary words. I'm just calling the follow up. This is just. I like basic paperwork. That is one of my favorite things. But sales reps love to say this Basically, what we do is so essentially what the next steps will be. I'm sorry to bother you, I'm sorry for being late, right? So as I'm studying these things, I'm like man, how do we be more in control and more assertive in the way that we communicate with homeowners. Why? Because people follow assertive people. It's hard to not follow the lead of an assertive person. And then I've learned 88% of people are non-confrontational. So when we sell people, we don't use these unnecessary words like adverbs. So a lot of sales reps love to use adverbs. Basically, sales reps love to use adverbs basically essentially um, actually especially like all of those words.
Speaker 2:So now it's if you do have enough story related damage, the next steps we're going to take is get in contact with your insurance company, let them know what's going on. If there's enough damage, we're going to get them out here so we can get the ball rolling very assert, but not aggressive, right? Basically, what we do is so we don't say basically, we say what we do is we let you know the steps you can take to get a brand new roof we're able to get the insurance company to pay for Very assertive, very direct, but in a very compassionate, you know, non-aggressive way. So when you late, right, and you communicated with your homeowners, hey, I'm 15 minutes late when you show up, stop always apologizing. Save your apologies for when they matter. So if you already gave them a heads up that you're going to be late. When you show up to the house, you don't say hey, I'm sorry for being late. You say, hey, thank you for being patient, thank you for being patient. Thank you for being patient. I appreciate it. Now.
Speaker 2:I'm not coming from this minimizing position because people think when they're apologizing, they're being considerate and they're being thoughtful. No, you minimizing yourself, right? So we've been paying attention to all of these little nuances of the game. That allows you to be more assertive. Also when it comes to tone, right, I've been playing with the tone with people because I watched this past weekend, I did a training and the tone went like this it went up and then down, so it was like this. So what we do is we can have people get nervous. I'm like why are you dropping your tone? Ah, so I learned something recently, a technique I how do you maintain a solid tone throughout a sales presentation? It's equivalent to you being at Thanksgiving dinner and you ask somebody to pass you the salt. When you ask somebody to pass you the salt at Thanksgiving dinner, you don't say, hey, can you pass me the salt please?
Speaker 3:You'd be like hey, uncle Jim, pass me the salt.
Speaker 2:Uncle Jim, pass me the salt man, hey, can, can you pass me the salt please? But that's how sales reps ask for the clothes.
Speaker 3:So if there's damage like the.
Speaker 2:the next steps will be that we contact you, know, like you know your insurance company, all of those filler words because they're not assertive in their communication. So we've been unpacking and continuing to fix the nuances of the game so guys can be that much concise, precise, directional and destinational when they're closing their homeowners, be more assertive and actually get more deals close.
Speaker 1:How do reps? Because to me, the learning process is first you learn something and then all of a sudden you hear it in what you're doing. Right, so you learn, you start to you're like, oh, I hear myself saying it. Then the next step is to work on that and eliminate those things and then you get to more of a mastery level. What is that? What is? Walk a sales rep through that process of how they how do you identify the words that you're using that are inefficient? What changes do you make to have a more clear and concise conversation, and how do you make sure that you do that every single time?
Speaker 2:Great questions, right? So step one, phase one learn your script or whatever it is that you need to do. Learn your script right, get that foundation down. So now at least you got whatever it is you need to say memorized, because I want to let you know it's going to take you a while to correct your grammar and your vernacular, because you've been speaking this way for 22 years, 23 years, 25 years, whatever, 30 years. You're habitual, so you've been doing this your entire life. So, phase one learn the script. All right, you got your script down, pat, boom.
Speaker 2:Phase two raise your level of self-awareness. And self-awareness has so many layers to it, right? People view self-awareness of, like, just becoming aware of my triggers and what makes me angry, what makes me sad, like that's how they view self-awareness. No, self-awareness is to know that you snarl your lip when you say certain things. Right, people say certain things. You and your eyebrows raising, you look at people like they stupid, right? So, like you got to start having that self-awareness of everything about you that shifts and moves during conversations. So now you're raising your self-awareness, right? Ok, I'm becoming mindful of the way my physiology changes, the way my tone changes, the way my voice cracks, right the way, when I get aggressive, when I get defensive, you becoming aware of those things. Okay, now I'm raising my level of awareness and as you raise your level of awareness, now you start to use the past as valuable training.
Speaker 2:So, like you said, jim, phase one learn the script. Phase two become self-aware. Phase three start listening to yourself. And I'm'm telling you, it's one of the most difficult things to do, because you don't listen to the words that you say. You just say the words that you say uh-huh, you don't listen to them, you just say them. Because I'll be training with a sales rep and I'll be like why? You just said that they'll'd be like. I didn't say that, I'm like, I just heard you say it. What did I say? You said this oh man, I didn't even know. I'm like yeah. So now I got to bring it to your awareness that you say certain phrases, because you need somebody outside of the picture to bring it to your awareness, because it's your habits and your brain. Your brain don't recognize your habits. Your brain only recognizes new patterns. So once it becomes habitual, your brain don't think about it no more, it's normal. Yeah, your brain don't got to acknowledge it. No more, it's like this is what we talk, this is how we do it. I ain't, I ain't paying attention to nothing. I say because we've been saying this for 20 years now.
Speaker 2:When you start paying attention to the words that you're saying, now you're forcing your brain to start being mindful of the words that it's using. So now you're saying basically and you're stopping yourself, versus your brain used to saying basically and keep going. So now you're like, oh shit, now you're forcing your brain to look for new words. As you're forcing your brain to look for new words, as you're forcing your brain to look for new words, it's I want to let you know, it's going to be exhausting because the brain only want to use 20 energy, and the 20 in the energy that is using every day, and want to use it on things that it already know.
Speaker 2:So you learn your script. You start to become self-aware, right as you're raising your self-awareness. Now you're starting to. Now you're beginning to listen to the words that you use on a day to day basis and if you really want to get anal about it, get an accountability partner and get them to call you out every time you use a word that you're trying to get rid of. And you just said, basically God, thank you, ok. You just said are you sure? All right, and now you will eventually start forcing yourself to find better words, use better terminology, have more clear, concise sentences when you communicate with homeowners or the people in your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's. I think about this from a technology perspective now too. It's very easy. First of all, it's been around for a long time. All that it's been around for a long time. My wife would. She would like I would watch my podcasts and edit them and do all these things for years. And she's like, how do you watch yourself and listen to yourself? Like, how do you do that, like it's so. It is so uncomfortable to hear yourself in the beginning, to hear what you say, the tonality that you use. It's very uncomfortable. So I have some ideas for people. You tell me what you think Deshaun. So first of all, you have, like, the software that's developed for this. Things like Rilla and Ciro Rilla Right, like Rilla and Ciro are developed for this specific person or for this specific purpose. To make sure that you're getting those words, I'm going to give you a simple hack. There's a voice recorder on your phone.
Speaker 1:Straight up A voice recorder, you can download that, that audio, and make a transcript, get the transcript from it and you could upload that into, like ChatGPT without listening to yourself. You could just upload it and tell ChatGPT you are an expert salesperson. I am trying to eliminate unnecessary words like, and unnecessary words and phrases like this. That the other thing please review this transcript and let me know where I'm at. You know, like, what I can improve upon, and it will do it very quickly. It's pretty crazy, and so what I would suggest to people is at least, at least, if you're dedicated to this craft, if you are dedicated to improving yourself, just turn on the voice recorder on your phone and what you just said is crucial.
Speaker 2:Do you got the dedication? That's right, are you that? Because I think that if I had to, like explain what made me want to become more aware of the words that I use and the way that I communicate, is because I was raised in the hood so I was heavy slang. My first two, three years in the industry I was like 80 slang. You know what I'm saying, you feel me, you know what I'm talking about. Like I, that was majority of my communication and maybe, like after a few months in the game I was like this ain't gonna work, this, this ain't gonna work, no more. Like we gotta, we gotta clean this up. How do we get better at this?
Speaker 1:and I'm on year 10 and I'm still trying to find ways to get better at it it never ends, but it never ends, it never ends, right, but, but you have to start somewhere and just start with. Just start with listening to yourself or having, like you said, if you have an accountability, if you have someone out there knocking with you and listening to you, hey, let me know if I say any of these things. Right, and they could, they can listen for those things for you. But if not, man, just voice record yourself and then go back and listen to it. You will find things that you're like Ooh man, why do I say that? And it's, it's a nonstop, continuous process, like I've. I've been speaking on stages for years, and, uh, it was a couple of years ago I did, I was doing a presentation and it was the word right. I started using the word right as a filler.
Speaker 2:I've been, I've been noticing, noticing, I've been doing it too Right, right, right.
Speaker 1:So it was. It was something that became very conscious to me and I, and then, once it's conscious to you, now you can start working on You'll still say it, I promise you. You'll still say the things that you want to eliminate, but at least your brain, like you said, your brain is catching them. So that is that, that wanting to get better, that, that seeking improvement to me is another topic that we've had conversations about, and that's loving the game. I know you're enjoying the episode, but let's give a shout out to another one of our sponsors.
Speaker 1:As a roofing marketing agency owner and coach, I've seen it all Great marketing wasted because no one follows up fast enough. That's why I built Power Up Agents, not just a receptionist. Our AI handles the entire customer journey, from answering the first call to booking the job, to post job surveys and reviews 24-7, inbound, outbound, even multilingual. If you want leads followed up instantly and customers nurtured automatically, visit the link in the description or visit the sponsors page on the roofing success podcast website. Your full ai team is ready. That is that, that wanting to get better, that, that seeking improvement to me is another topic that we've had conversations about, and that's loving the game, yeah yeah, I don't think most sales reps love the game.
Speaker 2:I think they love the money, they love the checks, so they do just enough to win and as they win, they like well, it's working, I'm winning. I don't need to change nothing, I don't need to grow, I don't need to involve, I don't need to improve, I'm solid. And I believe it takes a different level of curiosity in order to really fall in love with the game. Because I think about Kobe Bryant. Right, if you studied the game, he got to a point to where he couldn't drive no more. Like, if you watch Kobe, he couldn't drive no more because young Kobe was dunking on him. He was dunking on you, bro, he was on the lane dunking on you, you know, right. And then he got to a point he couldn't drive anymore. He was like you know what? I need to get nasty. And that's what Kobe did. That's what gave him the longevity to keep playing, because he couldn't drive. So he had to step back and learn how to do that.
Speaker 2:So, for me, I started learning. I'm like man motivation gets you in the game. Right, motivation will get you in the game. Learning is what keeps you playing the game for a long time and learning is what keeps you playing the game for a long time. And then for you to stay in continuous learning mode, you got to have a love for the game, to love the nuances, to love the big picture, the small picture, like the words, the transitions, the closes, the mannerisms.
Speaker 2:How do you work a heavy work work neighborhood? How do you step into a heavy work neighborhood and sound different than everybody? That's for that's, that's a love of the game. How do you take a normal roof inspection right and turn it into maintenance? And now you don't got your homeowner thinking about it like not just getting a free inspection, getting a brand new roof, but, dang, you're right, I don't maintenance my property. Yeah, go ahead and check that out for me. I ain't even thought of, because now I've been learning over the past few months and years.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to get away from selling roofs, jim, and I'm just trying to focus on selling perspectives. But that came from me loving the game. I'm like, whoa man, I don't really think roofs is what we sell. So what do we sell? I'm like, oh, we sell perspectives. So now, how do I master this art of selling people a new way to look at their problem and I've just been playing with these things, man.
Speaker 2:So you got to love the game. You got to really love the game because, like me and John Cena say all the time, man, money chases mastery, money chases mastery. As you master your craft, as you get better at what you do, people will chase you. You will attract a certain type of income once you start to learn how to operate from that third level of value, and that third level of value is communication, right, which is one of the best ways to make money is using your mouth, not using your physical body. But you got to have a strong love for the game of sales, the game of human nature, the game of self-awareness, the game of the mindset, being mindful, doing the internal work, just really human optimization. That's what I've been telling people lately. I've just fell in love with human optimization. I want to be an optimal human. I love ai, but ai don't allow me to be an optimal human, because that's internal work yes you know, and it's that you have to.
Speaker 1:You have to enjoy the growth. Um, it's the. You know six basic human needs, tony robbins. You know growth is one of them and if you have that, if you, if you lean into that and you enjoy that, you love that, my goodness. Like the, the, it's something special. How do, how have you broadened your learning over the years? How have you, how, how have you? You know you have over the years, how have you, how, how have you? You know you have the love of the game now, how do you? How do you, how do you continue to evolve, is it just? Hey, I'm just looking for roofing knowledge. I know you look outside of the roofing industry a lot. How do you broaden? How does one? How does a sales, sales rep, how does an owner broaden their knowledge? Man, so we.
Speaker 2:We was just having a conversation about this. I got a really good friend and his name john, and um, he was telling me how he's like man. I've been going to these, these expos and these roofing conferences and it's like I know more than majority of these people that's up on stage and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I, like you, know what your problem is, john. He said what I said. You only learn from people in the roofing industry. He's like what I was like.
Speaker 2:Just to bring it to perspective for you, I've never learned from one coach in the roofing industry. I've never had coaching from nobody in the roofing industry. Love Adam, I love all of these guys, but when I was young in my journey, I didn't pay no back. I didn't pay nobody. The first coach I spent money for was Grant. He was outside of the roofing industry. The second coach I spent money on was coach Michael Burt. He don't even sell roofs, he's just a super coach.
Speaker 2:Then I went from coach Michael Burt to you know, I was learning from the real Brad Lee. I was learning from John C Maxwell, myron, golden, just all of these high level people that had nothing to do with the roofing industry. Because once again I was looking at how do you become the best version of yourself, the best human? I didn't want to learn how to become the best roofer, right. Then I went to learning how do I develop my mindset. Then I went to learning how do I develop my mindset. Then I went to learning from you know, mindset coaches, like what's my boy name? Relentless Tim Grover, and then Brian Kane and then Alex Steen, and you know. Then I learned from Dr David Cook, which is one of the top mental performance coaches in the country, right. So I'm learning from all of these people outside of the roofing industry. And right now I'm reading a book called the Art of the Impossible, which blew my mind, and they got this theory in the book that I thought was pretty phenomenal. They said when you're somebody that started in one industry and that's all you did for a long time, you will make more money faster and sooner than the broad guy faster and sooner than the broad guy. So the guy that's broad, that maybe he worked in a grocery store, maybe he rapped for a little bit, maybe he did bartending, then he went and did a construction job and then he worked at a grocery store, whatever he did all of these different things and then eventually he got into the roofing industry. All of these different things, and then eventually he got into the roofing industry. He will start behind the guy that had been in the roofing industry for a long time but eventually he will pass them and start making more money than them because his learning is so broad that he can bring all of these different skill sets to this industry and thrive.
Speaker 2:So people see me so good. They see I'm good at sales. They see I'm good on stage. They see I'm good at all of these things. I'm like oh no, bro, I went to a performing art school when I was 10 years old, so I was acting and I was doing monologues when I was 10 years old, right.
Speaker 2:Then I played football for a while, right. And then I did door to door sales, selling the fundraisers. Then I worked in a grocery store for three and a half years where I learned how to talk to humans. Then I worked at another grocery store. Then, you know, I started doing this. Then I made music.
Speaker 2:But I've done so many random things that allowed me to learn from so many different arenas. And then, when it comes to books, I read sales books, relationship books. I read the male and female dynamic books. I read parenting books, I read psychology books, I read spiritual books. Like I read all of these random books. None of them have nothing to do with roofing.
Speaker 2:And then what is innovation? Innovation is taking principles from one industry and you bring them to another industry. That's all innovation is. Innovation is an invention isn't like innovation. Innovation is I'm a marketer, I go learn from a marketer and then I use it on the doors. That's innovation, right. So I take stuff from different industries, different markets, different types, learning and I apply the principles to what I'm doing, like the book the Art of the Impossible.
Speaker 2:I've never heard empathy used this way. You say what is empathy? Engaged presence. I'm like damn, that's good. I've only heard empathy like this. When you listen to understand, you don't listen to respond. That's the only way I've ever heard empathy explained, like when it comes to communication. The way they talked about empathy, they said it's engaged presence, boom, innovation.
Speaker 2:I read this book called the Rational Male.
Speaker 2:It's a whole book on the male and female dynamic.
Speaker 2:Right has nothing to do with sales.
Speaker 2:I heard one principle in the book that blew my mind. Has nothing to do with sales. I heard one principle in the book that blew my mind. It said I will always rather experience rejection over regret. I will always rather experience rejection over regret. I said, oh shit, that's a sales principle.
Speaker 2:This book don't got nothing to do with sales, but that's a sales principle because so many sales reps regret not knocking that million dollar home, they regret not walking into that commercial building like they got the regret. So I teach them now always rather experience rejection over regret, experience rejection over regret. So the innovation and the broadening your knowledge and the people you learn from allows you to be that much sharper in your industry and whatever it is that you're doing. So I love my roofing people Like I love everybody in our industry. I love you, I love Adam, I love all of these guys. You know, uh Lee, hey, I love all of those guys. But I encourage all my roofers go learn from somebody outside of this roofing industry. Watch how you blow your competition out of the water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was kind of something that goes along with that. As we were building Roofer Marketers, I was doing this podcast and I promise you there were so many times that I took things from a roofing business owner and moved it into a process in our digital marketing agency. It was crazy, because it was it's. It was just a good idea, right, like it was just a good concept, it was just good business, and so you know you can find it everywhere, everything is everywhere, and it's awesome to bring these in. I know you're working on the new book, yes, sir, and I don't know if it'll be out by the time this comes out. When do you think the book is going to be released? Is it going to be?
Speaker 2:released at the event. It's going to be released at the event. We're going to have it done November 13th and 14th, okay.
Speaker 1:So the Best Hustler Experience Live is November 13th and 14th. Yeah, okay, so the best hustler experience live is november 13th and 14th. The book will be released on that time. Yeah, but you've been. You know you had one of the one of the early things that you brought to the table was like the virtues of a hustler.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the 11 door-to-door roof commandments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 11, 11 door-to-door roof commandments. And so there's been an evolution of that over the years in the virtues of a hustler. So 11 door-to-door roof commandments, 11 door-to-door roof commandments. And so there's been an evolution of that over the years in the virtues of a hustler. So 11 door-to-door roof commandments. Now it's the virtues of a hustler. Talk about the virtues of a hustler. I know you're enjoying the episode, but let's give a shout out to another one of our sponsors.
Speaker 3:Stop going at it alone, because growing a roofing company today is not what it was like even three years ago. Going at it alone because growing a roofing company today is not what it was like even three years ago. Not with the economy, not with private equity, not with AI taking over the world. And let's not forget insurance rewriting the rules. Join the community of roofers who don't really like roofers. We share our winning secrets to help each other dominate in today's fast changing and unpredictable times. Click the link in the description to apply to join 11 door-to-door roof commandments.
Speaker 1:Now it's the virtues of a hustler. Talk about the virtues of a hustler.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the 11 door-to-door roof commandments came about because back in the days which was the first podcast we ever did, like three, four, five years ago, when we were talking about 11 door-to-door roof commandments and I viewed them as principles that governs your behaviors on the doors, like how do you stay principle driven while knocking doors and not get emotional? So we created the 11 door to door roof commandments and as I continue to progress in my career, the thing that I continuously run into is the morals, the values. What morals or values govern your behaviors as you grind and as a hustler. So I think about, like ancient greece and old greece and all of these things, patience is a virtue and these things are virtues. So I started thinking like man, what are the virtues of like the hustler, like as you out here, grinding and putting in work in this roofing industry? What are the virtues that I feel like if you embody these virtues, these moral compasses, you will thrive in this roofing industry. So I went down and started breaking them down, like one of them is grace right. Breaking them down Like one of them is grace right. One of them is grace and grace. The virtue of grace means give yourself the time that you need to grow into the person that you need to become to be able to sustain the success that you after in this industry. I know you want to get rich quick, but it ain't going to happen. It ain't going to happen. So you got to give yourself the grace and I tell everybody it took me about two and a half years to really hit my strides and really start killing the game like I wanted to. So that's one of them. Give yourself the grace, right?
Speaker 2:Honesty. Honesty is a virtue, but I don't mean being honest with homeowners, like I don't mean being honest and not lying to your homeowners. When I say the virtue of honesty, I mean the virtue of honesty mean don't lie to yourself. Keep it real with yourself, right? Stop? Stop. Stop saying you're going to do something and do the opposite. That's you not being honest with yourself. Stop saying you're not where you want to be because you ain't get trained and your company didn't provide you with these resources. No, no, no, no. Let's be honest. You do no extra work. You do no extra work, right? So another virtue be formless. Be formless, right.
Speaker 2:Bruce lee said best like you got to be like the water, right, you got to be formless. So I tell sales reps, the virtue of formless means you got to have the ability to adapt in any environment that you in. You might be a 1099 company. They might got. They might go W2. If you rigid Now, your performance is going to drop. You got to be formless baby. You got to be up in Minnesota where you used to just file claims. Now you got to provide a good faith estimate. You got to be formless baby.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm from Florida. We have nothing but law changes since I've been in this industry and we continue to thrive every single year. So these are just some of the virtues that I feel like if they embody these things as hustlers, they will thrive in our industry. So we got the I think it's the 10 virtues of the hustler, which I'm excited to have that done. It's already quote unquote done. We just we retyping it right now, we getting it edited up so by the time of the event and Thursday we can have like little physical hard copies. That way everybody can enjoy the virtues of the hustler. So I'm excited, man, and we're not trying to make it no, like New York Times bestseller. I'm not pursuing that route with it For me, it's just something I want to give to the people, my community, just to continue to keep bringing new information, new insight to them in the field.
Speaker 1:Well, you should make it a New York Times best bestseller.
Speaker 2:You ain't wrong, you're right, you're right, you know, like 50 pages new york time bestseller baby little quick little booklet.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:we're gonna put in the work. Matter of fact, now that you said that we're gonna do everything, we're gonna do the due diligence to figure out what we need to do that that's right, I'll help you out.
Speaker 1:I got, I got some. I got, I got a marketing plan for you Sounds good Sounds good, I'm ready.
Speaker 2:I'm ready.
Speaker 1:All right. So you have been, you do. You're a coach in the RSRA, yep, you do. You go and do onsites with companies a lot, what you know, what I know we talked about. You still see in the industry that there is still a lack of training and that owners essentially rely on the experience of the reps that they hire for success. Yeah, that's not a good business practice.
Speaker 2:Not at all, man, um, it's only a few owners that I've ran into that really loves the game, right, the growth, the, the, the nuances, and they able to retain their reps at a high level because they understand their value and the importance of training. But I'm 10 years into the game and I ain't gonna lie to you, uh, jim, I thought like by this time, like maybe roof hustlers would start to like kind of quote, unquote, plateau and kind of like get to this point, to where people are like no, we got it now. Like we know how to train our people, we don't need you, man, blah, blah, blah. And as I'm learning, as I'm continuing to step into these environments, man, which go back full circle, nobody loves the game enough to continuous to learn, to continually educate themselves so they can continuously train their sales rep because they so fixated on growing their company. So, yeah, training is still a watered down part of the game, because they'll hire a sales rep that's been doing this three years, four years, five years, let's say seven years, whatever.
Speaker 2:Roofing experience right, been selling for xerox for 10 years and all of these things right. So an owner hears those things and say, ah, I don't got to do no work. I got a rep got experience. He been selling. Whew boy, I hit the jackpot right. But I always tell owners I'm like, no, you need to do the Carfax Like. You need to do the Carfax Like. You need to do the Carfax right Like.
Speaker 2:Who taught them how to sell? What do they define as selling Right? What is their experience in selling? How much have they learned? How many events they've been to, how much mentorship they get? What's the last thing they've done when it came to their growth and their maturity in their sales? You know career or endeavor. So I'm meeting reps that's been doing this six years, five years, and they see me and they're just like man, I'm still on, I'm still not on that level and I'm like, yeah, it's because you don't train the way I train, right.
Speaker 2:Also, most reps only are working at work, only when they're doing the job. So only when they're selling, running appointments, doing inspections. That's the only time they're doing the job. So when they go home, they're cutting it off. So they're viewing it as a job. They're not viewing it as a career or as a vehicle which in return just think about this, jim, right, like when we all had regular jobs who the hell was doing any extra work at their job, unless you was trying to get overtime. That's the only time he was doing extra work to get overtime pay.
Speaker 2:So the training still watered down in our industry. Because I know it's going to sound contradicting to who I am and what I do, but we made the game. We've made owners lazy. We've made owners lazy since they know they don't have to study, they don't have to put in the extra work they don't got to get these people go to YouTube, go to this guy, go to that guy. They still not putting in their own work to go learn the things they need to learn to be able to take care of their people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. They could write a check or send them in the direction of the content that's been created out there. That's a big revelation and putting together a training program and executing on it day to day and continuously evolving that training program that's work.
Speaker 2:There's work there's a lot of work there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's fruitful work.
Speaker 2:Oh, the return is 10x.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so it should take the time, guys. Take the time, that's all. Put the work in. That's all we did, jim.
Speaker 2:We just fell in love with it to where we like man. That's right. It's an art to this. Let's continue to polish up the art, right Like let's continue to chisel away at this. Michelangelo and sales owners and sales managers, just be like we did it once. You should know it, that's right.
Speaker 1:And that that kind of makes me think of another conversation, and that's, you know, maximizing our time here and becoming the best versions of ourselves. Like I know, you've been on this journey. What where's it led you?
Speaker 2:Oh man it's. It's led me to a very happy place. Like I'm extremely happy in my life. I'm happy whether I got money or don't got money Right. I'm happy when I have a phenomenal month. I happen. When I have a bad month, like it doesn't change my temperament. Like the amount of money that I make Right change my temperament. Like the amount of money that I make right and being so in love with becoming the best version of myself, to where it comes, the way that I communicate with the people in my personal life, having patience with my kids, doing the internal work of outgrowing society norms and standards. Like I'm extremely selfish.
Speaker 2:Nobody goes around and says that, nobody says that with pride, but I am the most selfish person in my life. I tell people I put myself before my kids and they're like what you put yourself before my kids? I'm like, yeah, because if I don't take care of me, I can't take care of my kids. So, yes, I wake up five in the morning before my kids get up. I read, I study. That's me being selfish to fill up my cup before I go fill everybody else cup, because everybody view the word selfish is. Jim asked me for twenty dollars. I tell him no, I'm so selfish. No, that's stingy, that's being stingy, right. Being selfish is I'm willing to tell you, know, jim, so I can go read a book, go do something that fills my cup. So now, when I'm allowing you to do what makes you happy, I'm not worried about what makes me happy. Right, I love making music. I'll tell my kids hey, y'all sitting home with auntie for a few hours, I'm going to go to the studio. Can I come with you? No, hours I'm going to go to the studio. Can I come with you? No, I need to go do something for daddy first, and then, when I come back home, my kids would be like can we go to the park? Yes, let's go, let's go play at the park for three, four hours. Whatever y'all want to do, cause my cup full. I was selfish for the day, right.
Speaker 2:So this journey of just personal development, growing into the best version of myself and my dating life, personal life, fitness life, like now I'm getting to a point to where I'm understanding the extreme importance of systems, right so, everybody got systems in their business, systems, systems, systems. I'm like man, you got to bring systems into your life, right. So what's one of my weak areas. I love to eat. Love to eat, that's my thing, and I like to eat what I want.
Speaker 2:So now we've created a systems. Now we're doing factor meals right. So now we just got meals at the crib, so when I want to eat I just heat it up for two minutes. It ain't that deep, but I'm learning of like, okay, it costs time, money and energy to cook, unless it's a meal I really want to eat. We got a system in place. Let me eat this little two minute meal up. I'll satisfy me. That way I ain't going to McDonald's, no more. Right, fight my impulsive decisions, the emotions. So, man, this personal development journey has been beautiful, man, because it's allowed me to thrive in this roofing industry. It's allowed me to serve more people. It's allowed me to help other people step into sides of them that they've kind of been dormant about. Because being a great roofer isn't how you help people go to that next level. Being the best version of you is how you help other people go to that next level, because people need to see something that they're not and then they'll eventually want to chase that.
Speaker 1:And then they'll eventually want to chase that. That's the journey man. That's amazing. People have seen you around at a lot of events, speaking at events you do. You've done a lot of in-person trainings at a lot of companies around the country. You're switching it up a little. People are going to be able to come to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I'm excited about this. I want to give a ton of love, respect, admiration and just some validation to my big brother, Adam Binsman, because he pushed me in this direction. He's been telling me to do this for years and, as bold and as confident as I am, sometimes I do got some fear, and I did have this fear of if I put on an event I don't think nobody would come and I know these are stupid thoughts, bro. I want to be very clear of this. I'm aware because I've packed out every room I've ever been in.
Speaker 2:And so we made a commitment. We went to this event in February called the Game Changer Experience Me, him and another guy, my boy, justin. We, me, him and another guy, my boy, justin. We all part of the RSRA. We went to this event in February and it pushed me out of my comfort zone. He made me commit to putting on an event in front of 25 strangers like high level commitment, and so we named it the Best Hustler Experience, going to be a two day event in Atlanta, georgia, november 13th and 14th. He challenged us to have the flyer done by Monday. This was on Saturday, so I made a commitment to have the flyer done by Monday. He told me I need to have the landing page by that following Friday. And he told me you need to get these sponsors within 30 days. Long story short, we dropped the flyer on that Monday. We dropped the landing page that following Friday, made a commitment to get $25,000 in sponsorships in a month. We got $25,000 in sponsorships in three days and the Best Hustler Experience will be November 13th 14th in Atlanta, georgia.
Speaker 2:It won't be a normal conference with people just speaking at you. We're going to make this thing an experience. It's very intimate, it's only a room for 120 people and it's going to be different than anybody else doing. We got our keynote speaker not a part of the roofing industry. His name Brandon Geyer, former MLB player. Now he's a certified mental performance coach. So we're going to be teaching guys the mindset and the mental practices you need to thrive in this industry Me, my business partner, bruce, and my boy, nick Brandon, over there, the owner of Hero Roofing.
Speaker 2:He coaches in the Best Hustler Academy as well. So I'm excited, man. I think this could possibly change my business model to where now we're not doing a lot of on-site training, but we're doing maybe like three to five of these a year. We're having people come to us and if you want the on-site training, we're just going to increase the price just because the need is going to rise, but the scarcity is going to rise because we're not going to be doing it consistently. So yeah, man, the best hustling experience baby is going down November 13th and 14th in Atlanta, georgia.
Speaker 1:I hope to see y'all there. All right, man, it's been another, another fantastic episode. Love having you on. Likewise, this has been another episode of the Roofing Success Podcast. Thank you for tuning into the Roofing Success Podcast For more valuable content, visit roofingsuccesspodcastcom While there. Check out our sponsors for exclusive offers, shop for merchandise and sign up for our newsletter for industry updates and tips. Also join the Roofing Success Facebook group to connect with other professionals and stay updated on the latest trends. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, share and leave a comment. Your support helps us continue to bring you top industry insights. The website link is in the description. Thanks for listening.
