Essential Communication Skills for Tradies: Managing Expectations and Mastering Difficult Conversations | ft. Kristy-Lee Billet | Ep.386
Nov 01, 2023Episode 386
Matt Jones - Trade based business enthusiast
Are you struggling with managing expectations and having difficult conversations in your trade business? The secret lies in honing your communication skills. In this first part of our two-part series, we delve into the importance of effective communication in managing expectations and navigating challenging dialogues.
Learn how communication skills can make or break your relationships with clients and team members. We'll share actionable tips and real-life examples to help you master the art of communication. Don't miss out on this essential guide for tradies and contractors!
[00:03:18] Niche recruitment business finds and builds teams. [00:06:02] Performance, task standards, communication, interview difficulties, work environment. [00:08:34] Safety, workplace health, boundaries, expectations, materials, retention. [00:12:57] Revise communication style to effectively convey message. [00:14:08] Plan and consider timing for difficult conversations. [00:19:21] "Understand, clarify, involve, and find solutions." [00:22:02] Book review on Traction and 1-on-1 meetings. [00:27:11] Plumbers listening. Managing difficult conversations, documented framework. [00:30:37] Document all conversations, even in emails or texts, for potential exit strategy.
Are you struggling with managing expectations and having difficult conversations in your trade business? The secret lies in honing your communication skills. In this first part of our two-part series, we delve into the importance of effective communication in managing expectations and navigating challenging dialogues.
Learn how communication skills can make or break your relationships with clients and team members. We'll share actionable tips and real-life examples to help you master the art of communication. Don't miss out on this essential guide for tradies and contractors!
[00:03:18] Niche recruitment business finds and builds teams. [00:06:02] Performance, task standards, communication, interview difficulties, work environment. [00:08:34] Safety, workplace health, boundaries, expectations, materials, retention. [00:12:57] Revise communication style to effectively convey message. [00:14:08] Plan and consider timing for difficult conversations. [00:19:21] "Understand, clarify, involve, and find solutions." [00:22:02] Book review on Traction and 1-on-1 meetings. [00:27:11] Plumbers listening. Managing difficult conversations, documented framework. [00:30:37] Document all conversations, even in emails or texts, for potential exit strategy.
Christy, welcome to the Site Shed podcast. Matt, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. trying to string my sentences together here clearly. Mate, good to have you today. We're here to talk about the first episode of a little series we're doing on HR, essential skills and HR must-knows for tradies. The first episode we're gonna be talking about how to manage expectations and mastering difficult conversations, a topic which I think if our listeners and viewers have not yet found themselves in this situation, mark my word, it's coming. Mm-hmm, sure is. Um, yeah, so I think having a good framework around how to deliver these frame, these conversations is certainly powerful. Um, before we dive in, right, give us a bit of an overview as to, uh, who you are, where you come from, what you do, why you do it, how you do it. Awesome. So my name is Kristy. I work with small businesses, particularly, but a real passion for working with small to medium sized businesses on everything to do with people in their business. I grew up in a small business background. My grandfather was a timber pattern maker in the outskirts of Sydney. So I grew up around tradies, playing in sawdust and all that kind of stuff. I really just gravitated towards the small business culture that he built. He had a team that would have literally done anything for him. And he was no easy taskmaster. He had fairly high standards. If you grew up in New South Wales, went to a public school in the 70s and 80s, you'll recall the days before whiteboards and smartboards and all that tech, we had chalkboards that we used to learn from. And the teachers used to use timber. meter long rulers and all sorts of timber implements to demonstrate stuff on those chalkboards and every one of those was made in my grandfather's factory. So yeah, yeah. So, and apparently there was a like a duster holder that was timber that I have known a few people to say that did get thrown at them from time to time throughout primary school. So. that's bringing back some nostalgic memories. There's an insight into my age as well. Yeah, so all those meet along rules with that curved handle that the teachers would hold up there all made at my grandfather's factory. So I grew up in that small business world and really loved it and him being entrepreneurial, I was always going to be on my own business journey at some point and I found myself in a situation in a career that I didn't love and saw an opportunity to go out on my own very quickly with a restructure in the business I was working for. So resigned from my juicy corporate job and started my own business within a week. rented some office spaces and off I went. So I started a niche recruitment business initially, but really what I found was you can find someone the best people, but if all the systems and processes beyond that are broken or non-existent, it's gonna fall apart. And so I really wanted to work with businesses to get that whole process right. Because what I found was you can't have a business that is successful by all the measures and however you wanna measure success, but also gives you any sense of freedom, like nights and weekends potentially not working. if you don't have a team, you don't have the right team in your business. So that's what I work with businesses to help them create now. Well, it's good to have you on. Cause like I say, I think this conversation at some point in every business owner, business owner's life is going to rear its ugly head. Um, and so what are we going to talk about specifically in this episode? What are some of the things we're going to, I suppose, essentially overcome? So some of the things we're gonna chat about today are the importance of setting expectations because I think as business owners, we often are reluctant to set expectations with our team and often aren't very clear with what we're expecting and then ultimately things don't go as planned. And also about having those difficult conversations because there are so many different types of really tricky chats that we need to have with our people. And again, we're often very good at avoiding having them all together. Or when we get into one of those conversations, we're just not sure how to navigate it to make sure it's impactful and successful, stumble over our words, don't say the right things, and then get frustrated that nothing's happening. So I thought today we could chat about those two sort of fundamentals that, as you said, everyone has to navigate when you've got people in your business, whether it's an employee or contractor, you will have to have these conversations. find themselves in problems, especially with local, you know, staff and some of the conversations that they're, they're having, which come back to bottom in the butts in relation to, you know, just, I suppose, legal issues or things they said and shouldn't have said, or things they should have said a different way. Or, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of hurdles to jump, I suppose, through these. Yeah, and unfortunately, they don't make it easy for us as business owners. It is quite tricky to navigate what is okay to say, what's not okay to say, what you can ask, what you can't ask. And I think that's part of the issue that leaves people avoiding these conversations altogether. And that's maybe you're right. Maybe some, some people just don't want to don't have the conversation because they don't know how to. Yep, yeah I see that all the time, just sticking their head in the sand and hoping that things are going to get better on their own and unfortunately that never happens. are some of the typical conversations that you see, you know, business owners out there either should be having or are avoiding or should be having and are avoiding. Yep, all those things. The classic one we always think of is issues with performance. Someone's unhappy with something that someone's doing and they don't say anything and then the longer you leave it, generally the worse the situation gets and you get to the point of complete, you know, breakdown and explosion and anger and this person's just seeing you react to that last little incremental change where of course this has been a change that you've been noticing time and time again. It's been getting under your skin and getting frustrating. So that's probably one of the most common and typical ones. There's conversations around how to do tasks, what standard we're expecting, what success in the end results would look like that we often avoid or just don't know how to articulate. And that causes issues with reworks or things not being to standard. There's conversations at interview stage even where people just don't know how to ask the right questions to tell whether this person is the right person for their business. And then there's the other, you know, awkward conversations we need to have about things like body odor or presentation at the work site or how we're interacting with each other as a team. So there really are all different types of conversations that are tricky. But I think that performance management piece is the most common when we all come across it. that uber. Let's not go down that rabbit hole. Um, yeah, interesting. So why don't we start back there, I suppose, with the, like the, uh, recruitment and onboarding stage. Cause I guess they're some things which if you're not managing those expectations from the beginning and you're not, you know, laying that clear path for people to, um, to follow then through no fault of their own, they're probably not going to do it right. Precisely, yeah. And I think getting the recruitment right is essential. And I know it's really hard when we are so short staffed, particularly amongst qualified trades in Australia at the moment. It is hard to find people. So people are just grabbing whoever is available and has halfway the skillset that they need. But you can't outrun a bad hire. If you hire the wrong person, if they're a bad egg, if they're not great for your business, I don't care how technically competent they are, they're gonna cause you more headaches than it's worth down the track. So... having the right interview conversations and really getting to know what someone's about at interview is really important. And you write that onboarding piece, that piece that setting expectations and setting parameters and this is how we do things around here is really important. I think in trades, the focus is always as it should be on safety and workplace health and safety onboarding, which is really important and that shouldn't not be done. But on top of that, we failed to do some of the more tangible people-based onboarding, which looks like things around setting expectations and setting parameters and boundaries and saying look here's how we want this done this is the standard we expect this is how long this should take you can go and get materials up to this value don't go crazy on the company funnings or credit card setting those boundaries because once that starts to unravel it can be really hard to drag it back where if we've just been really clear at the beginning if they go outside of that it's easy to say hey remember when we had a chat about x y and z really need you to follow that process that's really important to us for these reasons. So that onboarding piece is critical and actually research shows us that really solid onboarding is going to increase your retention and performance rates by an exponential amount so it is really important. I mean, we have, we haven't, our entire team is remote. So it's a different level of complexity there, but the, I spent probably the better part of a year building on onboarding process and our retention off the back of it has been so much better just because we, it was, I just turned it into so much more of a disqualification process. Yep. Yeah, that's the thing that I see happen all the time. People come to me saying this person's terrible. I need to get rid of them. I'm like, how long have they been with you? A year, but they've been terrible from the beginning. Well, why have we still got them a year later? Because that's much harder to undo than if you dealt with it early on as well. But spending a bit of time investing in building out that onboarding is going to save you so much time down the track. And then you can use it over and over again as you build your team. I mean, I think that it's an ongoing evolution, the like managing expectations and helping equip team members for success. You know, asking those questions upfront, making sure they're okay with it, and then once they are on board, like it's an ever, ever evolving thing, you know, I just feel like it, it's kind of draining. To be honest, it just feels like it never ends. Yeah, and I think it's part of the issue is we feel like if we are being clear with someone or direct with someone that we're being bossy or mean or you know micro managing them but it's actually the opposite is true people want to know what we expect from them it actually gives them a sense of safety and security to have some clear expectations so holding back on that is actually doing the emergency service as well. Yeah. So what I'm curious as to how this you structure these conversations and especially in the space of one of the things which you touched on with like performance management and like making people like doing things in a way which communicates clearly the dynamic of the conversation, but also ticks the box of performance management in the event that down the track, you might have to let them go. Yeah, that's a good point. There's two layers to that. There's the compliance layer and there's the actual human layer. I think one of the most important things is to know your own communication style really well and know your team individually well enough so that you can adapt. Yeah, correct. Very, very much the case. Yeah, we're all perfect, obviously, but I do find when I'm working. like with my coaching clients and we do work on telling them about their communication style and helping them understand it. It's one of those aha moments where they suddenly realize why they feel like they're talking to a brick wall because they're communicating in a way that's never going to land with their team. And when you get to know your style and your team style, you can just tweak and make some changes to how you deliver a message or the tone you use. And it's going to really help it land with the team member. So understanding, you know, I'm, I'm a very dominant sort of direct style of communicator. So I'll just tell you exactly how I see it. But if I've got someone on my team who is maybe a little more introverted, maybe needs more explanation, more detail, a softer approach, if I went to them and said very directly, I've got a problem with how you're doing this, it's not to the standard I need, they would be so overwhelmed by how direct I was being, they wouldn't actually hear the message, they wouldn't be able to absorb it, and therefore they wouldn't make the change that I wanted. So I need to change how I would deliver that message. to that person. So part of it is knowing and sort of learning about your communication style and your team members communication style so that you can tweak the message to suit. But there's also some structure that you can follow. And I find that structure really helps people in terms of we have a tendency, if we have a problem to over explain, to over talk, to just blurt it all out and not really have a solutions focus at the end either. So not really have a plan as to Okay, but what is it that I want and how are we going to get there? So I find having a structure can be helpful. So one of the things I encourage business owners to do is to, before they go into a discussion, really get clear about what the actual problem is, like take the emotion out of it, because we're usually angry, upset, frustrated. So put some thought into what is the actual problem that I want to be talking about so that you can be really clear on that. So do a bit of planning. basically, which no one likes to do, but just a little bit planning. When you are talking to someone and having a, I guess, a difficult conversation about performance, really think about the setting and the timing of that conversation. 3.30 on a Friday afternoon is not the time to be having a conversation, but that's a common one. Yeah, particularly to the second beer. But it's really common to go, I'll just do it Friday before we knock off. That's a terrible time to have that conversation because they're going to go home on the weekend really cranky with you. So think about the timing, think about the setting, don't do this on site in front of everyone else, like go for a coffee or whatever, but find a setting that is private and that is appropriate to have that conversation. And the key is get the emotion out of it. Be clear enough and direct enough that you're saying this is the issue I want to discuss, here's the problems that I'm having, and then shut up basically and listen. And that's what we're really bad at doing generally. in July 6, 2016, I published episode 54 of the sidechannel podcast called Ever Wondered Why You Annoy People So Much. And that whole podcast related to one of my first ever and to this day, colleagues of mine who was a mentor back then. He introduced me to a book called personality plus, which was about understanding your personality profile or understanding the different types of personality profiles. So you can relate and converse with people sort of on their level. Like you just said then not so much on your level and that book to this day, I think was probably the most impactful book I've ever read because probably like you, I was a very high D type personality. If you're on the dis profile and, and I, to this day, I have a lot of trouble, trouble taming it, but like understanding, especially with team, but like, you know, now like having that understanding of the way different personalities respond to different things. That was really, it was a game changer. So I, I think that like for anyone out there who's starting out in business or just anyone that's alive, basically understanding these things like life skills that will serve you so well. And then in relation to the frameworks, Yeah. Couple of things, I'm curious to hear your take on what the meeting framework should look like. And then I'm also curious to see if you have any experience in relation to framing up people's individual positions. And as you mentioned, outcomes, things they're responsible for as a way you can pull them back to it. Yeah, great questions. So the framework for these meetings, I think should really be about you opening the meeting, letting someone know why you're meeting with them and what you want to talk to them about. So they straight away aren't thinking what this all about? What have I done wrong? You're giving them some clarity. Now, if we use the disk profile as an example, if you're talking to a high D, just get straight to it. They don't want to miss about just say. I need to talk to you about this. It's not working because of that. Here's what I wanna discuss today. Where if you're talking to an I or an S personality, you're gonna have to take that much slower and pad it around with some how are you todays and some how was the weekend, how are the kids? And look, I need to talk to you about something. You're really padding it out quite differently, but that's the start of the conversation. You need to really make clear what you wanna discuss and why this has become an issue. So, We've had a complaint from a customer. We've noticed that we've had to do a lot of rework. We've noticed your jobs aren't getting done on time. What is it that's caused you to need to have this conversation? What's the flow on effect of this issue? How does this fit into the bigger picture? Why does it matter, basically? So what I wanna discuss, why does it matter? What you've noticed. And then I really encourage people to get curious and ask the employee to get involved in the conversation at this point. If this is a conversation about all you talking, you're not going to get to the right outcome because quite often what we see as the issue is not the main issue. There's something underlying going on that we don't see or know about or understand. So I then turn it around to the employee and say something like, can you tell me more about that? Or can you explain your perspective on that? Or what's going on for you when this happens? And getting them to start to tell you in their own words what's happening. Now, curiosity is something we all have access to, but we are sometimes terrible at using it. And this is one of those times we've got to get really curious. And you're not going to get the right answer in that first sentence. You're going to have to dig further and keep asking questions. Tell me more about that. How does that impact you? What's going on? How are you feeling in that time? Depending on, obviously, the circumstance. So digging a bit deeper to find out what's actually happening. And then... Once I've unpacked it all, I will recap to make sure I have understood. So just to clarify, what you've said is you're struggling to get that done in time because you feel like you feel like it's an unrealistic time frame or you don't quite understand that process or it's not making sense to you. Whatever they've told you, just recap to make sure you've got it right. And then you transfer to the solution. OK, so what we need to see is this to happen faster. How could I help you make that happen? If you can involve them in the solution as to how you're gonna get from point A to point B, you've got a far better chance of it being successful. What do you need extra training? What support can we give you? How can we help make this a possibility? So getting them involved in that solution is key. And importantly, you wanna get to a solution. You don't wanna walk out of that meeting having no clue what's gonna happen next and getting to that solution, agreeing on what's gonna happen. Mm. and then finishing off the meeting. And I will always then recap the meeting with them later. So maybe the next day, the next week, having a catch up saying, are we on track for that? So that's the kind of framework I will usually follow in those kind of meetings. And I think that can work for a whole range of different scenarios. at the moment, like a reactive situation, whereas, you know, if you can make a bit of a cadence out of these meetings, that ideally the big problems don't happen as much. Absolutely, that framework is definitely one for a more reactive meeting, definitely where you're identifying an issue and dealing with it. But if you can have regular catch-ups with your employees, where there is a forum to discuss issues, you're going to avoid needing to have those meetings altogether. So that might look like review meetings. It might look like just stuff. Some people call them staff catch-up meetings. Um, it really depends on you and your business, but I would love to be having a little, at least a short catch-up with every employee once a month. or once a quarter, once a month is too much. But I would suggest if you're only doing it once a quarter, you're probably not gonna catch all the issues. Can you see yourself? Okay. No worries. I just earmarked it. I just lost you all together via, but it's not saying that it's, it could still work. And when we're in this recording, it will just upload at your end. Hopefully, we'll see. Yeah, exactly. So I, a couple of years back, I was going through this whole. evolution of recruitment and more importantly, retention instead. So I didn't have to do as much recruitment. I, um, with, I, I went through and read a whole bunch of books. And one of the ones that I read was a book called traction by Juno Wickman, um, which is off that EOS framework and I extracted, it took me probably a month to read that book and it took me about three months to implement. But, um, one of the meetings we had a whole meeting have a whole meeting structure for the business. And one of them is a one-on-one meeting. And the things that we address in that meeting and truthfully, like, I probably need to get back to, back to this more because it's sort of slipped away, I suppose, over the last, you know, six to 12 months, but the things you want to discuss, the biggest personal win, biggest professional win, roadblocks. two hard basket, both opportunities. And these meetings ideally would be held with a manager every, you know, twice a month. And then they're not big meetings. They're sometimes five minute meetings. But the concept behind it is if there's things that you can see popping up, then how do you address them before they explode? Yeah, and you'll see it. If you're having meetings twice a month, you will know about things well ahead of time. And what I love about those kind of meetings is the employee knows then there's a forum coming up, if there's something that's bothering them, bubbling away, they know that they're gonna be talking to you again next week and there's a spot in the calendar that they can actually have that discussion with you. And so they don't have to then overcome that hurdle of thinking, oh my God, I've got to go to Matt with this problem, I don't know what to say. They know there's a solution there where they can. found quite useful with active meetings because the things you want to discuss is the issue. And there's often positive things that do come out of this, like what's your biggest personal and biggest professional? When you can still address these things in that meeting, but the thing you want to primarily address is the issue at hand. And one thing that I liked about what you said earlier is involving the team in the decision-making process. because I've always found if it comes from them, they're more likely to do it. Of course, because they feel like it's the successful option because they've chosen it. So they'll be invested in making sure it works because they want to be able to say, told you my idea would work. So yeah, they'll be very much invested in it. So if it comes from some guy sitting in office behind a podcast, Mike, as opposed to someone that's in the trenches doing that role, like it's, you know, that's kind of the same approach we have with, you know, process within the business too, like it's trying to empower the team if they need a process for something, then go on, create it. don't expect someone else to do it for you, not knowing how to do it. Exactly. And I think what we can do when we fall into the trap of either micromanaging or not managing our team at all, is we don't delegate that responsibility for coming up with the process, coming up with the ideas. And we almost, if we're a micromanagement sort of style person, we are teaching our team never to think for themselves or do anything for themselves, which then creates this spiral where we have to micromanage them. So it's really important we do give them that responsibility to come up with the idea, the solution, the process. Like for me anyway, like we have our vision mission, our values, and then we have our standard operating procedures. And they're essentially boundaries from which the team can operate within and express creativity or do whatever they have to do, but they're kind of like the rules, you know, like just stick within these boundaries and do the thing, do it however you want, but make sure you don't. you know, deviate too far from the things that we stand by, you know. Yeah, absolutely. And the team like that. They like to know, cool, I can do what I need to do and here's the sort of where I need to stay within. So they feel safe to experiment within that without being uncertain where the boundary lies. So it's great for them. a couple of people where it's like, well, I don't know what you're thinking. And I'm like, are you joking? Like, she's joking, you know what I mean? Like, so. Mm-hmm. Yep. And you've got that much structure there. That's setting you up for success. It's also setting you up for figuring out pretty quickly who's not going to fit that structure. done. Sadly. It's like, it's like showering. Just got to keep doing it. to sharing. Yeah, yeah, it does always need continual development. Yeah, it's gonna keep doing it. AI will figure out a solution soon, I'm sure. Yeah, to all the problems, to all the repetitive problems. managing these difficult conversations? Like my, I suppose recap on it would be just to have like a documented framework that you can pull back on. And if you, I mean, it's, I suppose it's a little bit different from, you know, the way that we run the business, which is remote where we can record meetings and, you know, all that kind of stuff. One thing that we are actually. Investing into a lot more now is I'm building out all this for tech training off the back of things that I'm seeing breaking, you know, not so much operating procedures, but like things that I'm like, okay, well, maybe they just clearly don't understand the dynamic of this thing right now. So this needs a bit more training than just a, you know, an SOP, for example, because I find we've got just, we have SOP paralysis in our business. There's there's hundreds, potentially thousands of them. And Yeah, yeah, a bit of a gap analysis. where people are like, oh, did you read the SOP? I'm like, I didn't even know it existed. You know, it's like, cause it involves training on an SOP. Like people didn't understand how to do the thing, right? So it's not always a case of just documenting. You kind of got to get in there and get your hands dirty. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, and some people learn differently too. So you can have like a really well-written SOP that will work perfectly for one person and someone else will come into the business and they're just not wired that way and they'd be better off seeing a video of the screen sharing action or whatever it is. So then you're trying to adapt to all those things. So yeah, from that perspective, there's always work to do. here and watch a 10 minute video to get to minute eight, where the thing is, I want to know, I want to see the bullet point down here. That's the one I forgot. Okay. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly, for that reason. No. Sure, but the reality is it's for the better part. They probably don't need it as very often They just might need to pull back to it every occasionally exactly. Yeah So anyway, that's a that's a rabbit hole. We could probably shouldn't go down with No, just the first time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think that we could go down for sure. Yeah. I think the key to remember is when it comes to your team and what you expect from them and their behavior and performance, there's a saying that says, you get what you demand and you encourage what you tolerate. And I like the last line in particular, because if you're tolerating it, expecting things to change and they never will. And again, it's not necessarily through anyone's fault. It's just a communication thing. But I will add to that. I think off the back of having those conversations, the reason why I think it is important to document the conversations and document processes to support. The outcomes that you desire off the back of that conversation is in the, in the, I mean, above many things, you want to have that backing you if for whatever reason, it does become a performance management conversation, you have, well, look, we've had this conversation three times. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's a really good point to circle back to what you asked about earlier. Document every conversation, even if it's just a little diary note. It doesn't have to be a formal letter unless you're getting to the point of actually wanting to give a formal warning. But having a documented something, even an email after the chat or in text is OK as well. It's a bit harder to track or just a note somewhere to say, spoke to someone so today about this because you're right, you can then pull that back and say, we've spoken about this on this date, this date and this date. just how we do it in project management. I know this isn't going to be very good for you guys listening out there, but the point is this meeting, you know, you've got things to discuss the biggest person to win the biggest professional win roadblocks, which is like the two hard basket, uh, growth opportunities. And when you document these, we also embed the video meeting link in there. Um, it's all assigned to the individual and it's all dated. It's just all clearly documented. And it just means that puts it like skies as well. If you need to see this in the, uh, in the show notes, but, um, yeah, it's pretty straightforward truthfully. But again, the purpose behind it is just to document things so that there's a record so that you can train people better and support them better and pull them back to things in case they miss it. Chances are it's your fault. Yeah. Yeah, and because, yeah, there's every chance we've certainly got some level of involvement, but it's just having that, whatever your system is, whatever your process is, just use a system of some sort, even if it's manual, like it really doesn't matter. It's just a system. the biggest five mistakes that trade businesses makes with HR compliance. Really? Yeah, have we touched on any of them in this episode or is that a different kettle of fish? Yeah, it's an area I spent a bit of time working in, so I thought we'd unpack some mistakes and hopefully help people avoid them. It's a slightly different kettle of fish, but certainly the documenting of performance discussions is something that doesn't always happen and that can get you into a bit of trouble when it does come to either having terminated someone and not having done it properly or wanting to terminate and not having the documentation in place. managing these expectations or how you guys master your difficult conversations with team members, how you guys manage this part of the onboarding process better with getting expectations to outlay it and all that kind of stuff. I'd love to hear it. So wherever you see this podcast come through. If it's in social media, if it's in an email, if it's via carrier pigeon, whatever, give us some comments and let us know. And I am sure if it needs any follow-up, Christie would be willing to come back on and go into a little bit more depth into any of those areas. All right. Well, this episode, folks, is a course absolutely.