Explore the art of change management in the trades with our latest podcast, 'Trade Transitions: Mastering Change Management in Your Business'. This episode is a treasure trove of strategies and insights on navigating and leading organisational change effectively. We discuss practical approaches to adapting your business to change, inspiring leadership during transitions, and fostering a culture that embraces evolution. This is an essential listen for anyone in the trade industry looking to stay ahead in an ever-changing business landscape.
Watch the video version of this podcast at https://youtu.be/OfdVfFTOLVY
Discussion Points:
00:00 Episode Highlight
02:51 Introduction to Change Management
04:13 The History and Evolution of Change Management
06:30 Technology's Role in Change Management
08:22 Addressing the Stigma of Change Management
11:10 Key Pillars of Change Management
14:43 Stakeholder Involvement in Change Plans
17:24 Adjusting to Changes and Feedback Loop
20:11 Addressing Employee Resistance to Change
23:18 Building Team Success in Change Management
25:47 Relating Change Management to Trade Businesses
28:05 Managing Individual Resistance to Change
30:39 Sales Team Dynamics in Change Management
33:31 Navigating Personnel Changes in Business
35:11 Starting with Change Management: Framework and Tools
38:14 Implementing a Change Management Plan
Resources:
Have a conversation with us! Go to tradie.wiki/pod and book a call.
Check this out:
Connect with me on LinkedIn. For more podcast episodes, you can also visit our website.
Thank you for tuning in!
If you enjoyed this podcast and this series, please take 5 to leave us a review:
Explore the art of change management in the trades with our latest podcast, 'Trade Transitions: Mastering Change Management in Your Business'. This episode is a treasure trove of strategies and insights on navigating and leading organisational change effectively. We discuss practical approaches to adapting your business to change, inspiring leadership during transitions, and fostering a culture that embraces evolution. This is an essential listen for anyone in the trade industry looking to stay ahead in an ever-changing business landscape.
Watch the video version of this podcast at https://youtu.be/OfdVfFTOLVY
Discussion Points:
00:00 Episode Highlight
02:51 Introduction to Change Management
04:13 The History and Evolution of Change Management
06:30 Technology's Role in Change Management
08:22 Addressing the Stigma of Change Management
11:10 Key Pillars of Change Management
14:43 Stakeholder Involvement in Change Plans
17:24 Adjusting to Changes and Feedback Loop
20:11 Addressing Employee Resistance to Change
23:18 Building Team Success in Change Management
25:47 Relating Change Management to Trade Businesses
28:05 Managing Individual Resistance to Change
30:39 Sales Team Dynamics in Change Management
33:31 Navigating Personnel Changes in Business
35:11 Starting with Change Management: Framework and Tools
38:14 Implementing a Change Management Plan
Resources:
Have a conversation with us! Go to tradie.wiki/pod and book a call.
Check this out:
Connect with me on LinkedIn. For more podcast episodes, you can also visit our website.
Thank you for tuning in!
If you enjoyed this podcast and this series, please take 5 to leave us a review:
Matt Jones:
Margie, welcome back to The Site Shed podcast.
Margie Oleson:
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Matt Jones:
So this is the 2nd conversation that we're having on the topic of leading high performance teams in the trades. For the in the 1st episode, we were talking about conflict resolution. And if you guys have missed that episode, I would recommend you go back and check that out because we touched on things That you guys can implement within your business that can improve and, well, more more importantly, reduce conflict, I suppose, Setting a cadence around meetings and how you can structure conversations within your team so that the outcome is more predictable and you are running into less calls with, within your organization. We also discussed a number of different things in relation to culture. We discussed a number of different things in relation to managing expectations, and so I definitely encourage you guys to go, and check that out. Today, however, we are talking about change management. So this is a conversation which will become more and more relevant as you start building out, I suppose strategic goals within your business, which require different things from people and different Contributions in in relation to perhaps services that you might be delivering, Skill sets that you might need in order to deliver services, so on and so forth. But I suppose, essentially, when we're talking about That as as an overarching management conversation and how we can build these things to scale, these are not always comfortable conversations, and I think, inevitably, You're gonna learn today that, in order to get this done right, you're gonna have to have uncomfortable conversations from time to time. Margie, thank you once again for joining us. You are from Olsen Consulting. That's oles0ndashconsulting.com. And I'll have links to to everything guys within the show notes. So, please, when you when you hear this episode and you wanna go get out get some more information, Head across to the Saatchi.com and just search Margie, m a r g I e, and, the episodes will pop up here with the various links to Margie. So thanks again, Margie.
Margie Oleson:
Thank you.
Matt Jones:
Change management. So, again, I'm really keen on diving in this conversation because, like, as I've said Just before, you know, once you start setting these goals, which inevitably mean of of forcing change across Every area of your business, inevitably change is gonna have to happen with team members, with Expectations, responsibilities, and more importantly and most importantly, outcomes.
Margie Oleson:
Correct. Couple of things get started, number 1, we'll we can talk about the history of change management a little bit.
Matt Jones:
Sure.
Margie Oleson:
But I do wanna say, To start with that, we all experience change on a global level the last several years in ways that we really hadn't. When you have a global pandemic, It's interesting and very difficult and challenging that we had changed, that we all shared the experience in one way or another, regardless of where you were, regardless of who you are, Regardless of what system you're in, if you are, in, you know, in a small system, if you live alone, if you're in a big group, if you're a a skyscraper or a 1 person shop, everybody experienced it. And one of the things that can happen when something changes is We figure out that when we say I don't like change or change is hard, it's because it's Against our nature. And so you can argue that, that physically, we, we are very good at adapting. Very, very, very good. We have a lot of, capabilities and a lot of resources, anatomically, physically, mentally, emotionally to be able to make change, but our day to day is 99.99% autopilot. So if every day when I was get out of bed in the morning. I had to relearn where the glass of water was, where's the door, how do I drive my Hard to get to the 1st place that I'm going. If I had to relearn each of those teeny tiny steps, I would never get out of bed. I'd be exhausted every single time. And so the way the brain learns is it and and it comes it's coming up, you know, as we're young and then we become adults. We've learned so many things So that they can be done in an auto habit so that the body is available, the brain is available to keep me alive And to maximize opportunity. So in order to make a change and and then I have to be in charge of my brain, and that It's something that is different than how my day to day goes. So if you, were aware, we have about 60,000 to a 100000 thoughts a day a day. And so most of those thoughts are happening to us. We're not even thinking those thoughts. If I if I told you to take a breath right now. Just breathe in really nicely. Breathe out. Then you might notice your breathing, but before I said that, you didn't notice your breathing. It was just doing it. These habits you have for how you conduct your day, for how you do your work, for how you communicate, for how you make decisions and make goals, So much of that is habit even though it seems like it shouldn't be, but it is. So in order to change, we have to change the habits. And, a little bit about the history of change management. So change management is a phrase that encompasses, lowercase change management might be the the way that you approach the art and science of making changes when you're managing something, but there's also Capital change, capital management where you have jobs that have those titles, and I have had those roles in corporate America. And one of the places that change management popped up as a discipline was when we started to have technology being invented and being made available to the average organization. So let's say that, we finally heard about this Computer thing, and it's gonna help us do some of the things that we're gonna do. And we're gonna set 5 goals for what it's gonna do for us. It's gonna save us money. It's gonna then we can downsize, some of our employees or we can have them do other things because the machine's gonna do it for us. It's gonna make this one process that we have go so much faster. We're gonna be able to build customers, and so we don't have to do this all day long. Customers can pay us more readily, faster, and so they set these goals. And then academics at certain colleges and universities discovered watching the this sort of unfold that if you really looked 2 years later in your 1 company and you had goals for this technology deployment, you didn't call it that then, but you bought this newfangled thing, You didn't meet any of those goals. It cost you more money than you thought. It's not saving you any money. Your people don't know how to use it. Your people are really not happy about it. And so then this became data because they documented this over and over and over again, and someone had to figure out along the way, It's about the people. You you can't just change buildings. So now we're gonna move to this location across the street or across the country. You can't just do that and not bring the people along. And so you can, but it won't go well. So they thought they could buy these big computer systems, and the people will of course, they're going to want to look The new system. They're gonna wanna be trained. They're gonna wanna do things differently and actually take the person out of it. Those brains did not want to. Those brains are like, woah. No. No. No. I gotta keep 99.99% of resources available For threats or opportunities, so let's just keep a low profile. Let's just wait and see what happens. And then fast forward decades, and we've now built Methodologies based on, the art and science for how to help leaders just think about change management in everyday Terms. Every leader is dealing with change over and over again. So it's how can we help them think through the kind of the little Aspects, the pillars of change management that can be helpful, and we can talk about that as well as how can they be a leader and make it happen with their people.
Matt Jones:
I suppose there's a bit of a, underlining stigma that change management I mean, maybe it Come from it comes from that corporate world where essentially change management means there's a whole bunch of people that are about to get the sack.
Margie Oleson:
Correct. That's the first thought. Yes. The brain, very, very, very immediate, very fast. Uh-oh. It's the uh-oh. And sometimes that really is what's gonna happen.
Matt Jones:
Sure.
Margie Oleson:
Every other time, you can say that a 100 times, and what the brain hears is danger, danger, danger, which is why when you're intentional And you you work with the brain and you lead it and you give so I'm the leader, and I'm giving the 5 people that report to me. I know what their brains need. I'm gonna give it to them. And guess what? It's not in 5 minutes, and it's not just once. If you've heard the marketing adage 7 times 7 ways And if you've heard the the term overcommunicate, overcommunicate is only a negative if what you're saying isn't accurate or isn't helpful. We, as leaders, need to overcommunicate. It feels boring. It feels awkward. Like, I said it. I already said it. They don't wanna hear from me again. No. They actually do. Because the first 3 times you said it, the brain didn't engage. The brain was busy. But all of a sudden, if I hear about it in a meeting and then I see it let's say when I, Get an email, and there's a bunch of stuff on there. And, oh, there's that thing about that thing I heard about that, and then I'm in a conversation with my leader about it. All of a sudden, the brain says, okay. Okay. I'm with you. I'm leaning in now. I'm willing to commit some real estate up in my brain so that I can Check out what's happening here. I can dial up my curiosity. I can ask some questions. And once you start that process and put in place some change management activities, It starts to be committed to memory, and you're starting to actually learn. So people, if you've ever heard that people resist change, It's not people. It's their brains. Nobody gets up in the morning and says, well, today, I'm going into work, and I'm gonna resist all those changes that we've been talking about. Nobody does that, but you'll find whole programs that are managing resistance, managing the, you know, resistance management among the people. And the truth is, What you wanna do is put in place the things that the brains need, and then the resistance just doesn't happen. Resistance then happens for the real things like, I think they're eliminating our jobs. That's a legitimate reason to be resistant, and that's a place where you have a lot deeper conversations and, work with your people. But some of the things you can do, in a way that is easy and not rocket science, and you just have to keep at it And be methodical about helping them make the change.
Matt Jones:
So what what are some of those activities that you mentioned which can To aid in the adoption Yep. Of change change
Margie Oleson:
and change management. So if we think of pillars, there is, number 1, just leadership alignment. So the numb the the most important person in any change management endeavor is the network of leaders. So let's say you have a company of a 100 people and you're gonna do a big change. The data says, on average, you need about 30% of the people to come along on the change. The other 70% will just naturally follow. K? So so and who's in that 30%? Some people that are really excited about the change, But then it needs to be your entire leadership network. So one of the pillars, one of your tools in your toolbox is, leadership alignment. Another is communications. And so that marketing 7 times 7 ways, we use different channels. However you already communicate, you don't you don't start something fancy new. You don't need to. How do you already communicate? Now you layer on to that The pieces that are information that need to be starting to take root in people's memories and start to learn about these changes. And then it is training. And so training is a very active active, activity. It's those are related. When we take action and bring to life the thing that's going to be different, that's a much faster, more effective way for adults to learn. Children learn like sponges. Adults need to compare something to something that's already in their database, and they need to actually do something in order to be able to get the brain engaged. And then there is, there are things like a day in the life, so learning about what does the future look like. We think in pictures, and I don't know if people realize that. But if I said think about your bed, you don't think b e d, the word bed. You see your bed. So we take that thing that we know now about brains, and we do pictures and models, and we do drawings for what does the Future look like. And, we also need to hear something in stories. So it's another thing the brain does. It learns we we knew this 1000 of years ago. We learn in stories, so we tell stories. So we take that information, and I will tell you one of the things that's really important. So as a OCM, change management professional is don't bug the things that I'm saying to you right now, this is not how I would talk to a person going through a change. They just their eyes glaze over and they think, oh, she's so theoretical. She's just talking all day about science. Why are we talk but what we do is we take advantage of that knowledge And we bring to them very active ways to engage them. So let's take an example. So let's say that you are Going to move from one location to another. And so the change plan would involve How your go everything from the tiniest detail, like how you're gonna get your mail moved from this place that we're at now to the new place. All the way to all the people that go to the place you're at now, what is that gonna mean for them? And we call all those people all those ways that you're impacted, we call all those people stakeholders. So the mail carrier As a stakeholder, you could say that even though they don't care if you're moving. But an employee who just moved into the neighborhood and was Excited about coming into work because they now live 3 blocks away is really not happy that you're moving across town or across state or across country. And then you have all these stakeholders in between. So you have your toolkit for how to help these stakeholders. And so When you're so then you get into a room with other leaders and you plan for your change plan for this move, All the details. You know, you identify all the details kinda like you would run it like a project, and then you plan at the highest level for, okay. Based on how we already communicate, how are we gonna lay on to that the information that's needed at the time that it's needed And communicate. In what ways? Let's make sure there's a picture of the new place. Let's make sure we tell them why. We tell them why or some people won't engage. Tell them why. What's the purpose of the move? When? It's a 3 legged stool. What's changing? By when? And to whom? So if this location is not for everyone, if some people are gonna be staying at the current location, that is really important to know, especially the people that are staying and the people that are going. So paint that picture. Tell that story. Tell that why. And then what I do when I'm literally developing the change plan is I create, let's say, a 24 month schedule, kind of a time line That says, okay. Well, we have these staff meetings every week. We do a lunch meeting with pizza, and we talk about how things are going. We're gonna make sure that at every one of those pizza lunches, we bring in one thing about the change, not the whole time, not hitting somebody over the head with it, And, certainly, always providing time for people to ask questions because each of their brains are gonna lean in at different times. And then we look, and along the way, the other thing in your toolbox is checking how it's going. You're just you have metrics for you you're testing. How are my people doing? How do they what do they think about this move? Are they a part of you know, how if you're if you have a a family with adults and children, if they're making a move, They like to involve the children in some aspects to make it not so difficult. Well, I don't mean to treat employees like children, but anything that they can do to be involved, Guess what? It's not that it helps them overcome resistance or try to be a nice employee. No. It actually engages their brain in ways That moves them from not me, not me, not me to, oh, I get it. They don't even realize that's what their brain is doing. Their brain is the problem, not them. And so their but their brain is also the solution. So if we can gauge it, We and then along the way so you're working the plan. You get 6 months in. I've been working my plan. I've been doing these things, checking them off. This worked. This didn't work, and then you adjust it. And then inevitably, there are changes to the changes. So the location's not gonna be ready or it's actually ready 2 months in advance. Or we have a burning platform if you've heard about this. The the what's behind me is burning, and I don't get to stay anyway. I have to go to the new place. We have a reason. We have to be out of our lease, but the new place isn't done yet. We have a change to the change. So we're just gonna do a little mini change management Around that change and bring everyone along. I will say it is easier with a 100 people than it is with 10,000, but it's your network no matter what. And if you 100 people or 40 people or 10 people, I think of them as a group that can be continuously involved and updated And remembering that to bring their brain into the mix along the way on a defined schedule.
Matt Jones:
It's interesting you say that because you'd have we've had for years, I've I've been talking about how to if you want your team members to follow process, get them involved in the creation of it Because they're far more likely to follow something that they're invested in than something they've just been ordered to do. And we've taught this to, you know,
Margie Oleson:
Yes. And when we heard that, we didn't get the explanation for what was behind that. So I mistakenly thought, Oh, so we're just supposed to pander to people. Fine. We involve them, and then they're a part of the process. What we did what we weren't saying, the the next sentence was because that helps their brain Engaged.
Matt Jones:
That's right. And it helps them do their job better.
Margie Oleson:
Yes. Yes. They're not intentionally trying to be difficult. They they actually don't even realize that they are they have so much going on that's very complex. It's a wonder it works at all. And so anything. So when we hear those adages, just know that some of it is really because that is how we are hardwired.
Matt Jones:
And it's I think it's those Like, it's the ability to have like, when you when you empower people to take control of those things, They you should also be empowering them. I had this conversation with a team recently. Like, it's way too much on a plate. And I'm like, you will always have this stuff on your plate because you haven't yet Outline clearly what you need to take off your plate so we can get someone to do it for you. And and prioritize.
Margie Oleson:
Is everything the same priority? Is is something being avoided because something changed and you're not ready for it? Is there something you don't know how to do? Is there something that you love doing, But, really, that should not be your priority.
Matt Jones:
Exactly. And so and and, inevitably, when you're in a organization that is growing, that is gonna become a reality over and over again. Like, there will be more and more things put on your plate that you have to eventually Document so you can get someone else in to do that so you can stay in your sweet spot or you can promote into the next level or whatever it might be. But
Margie Oleson:
That's the entrepreneur's journey is you can only be a a a team of 1 for a very short amount of time. And when you're a team of 10 or 20. When you've been a small company for a while and then you jettison up to a next level, you gotta be really intentional about who's doing what because that can be a recipe for failure rather than success. It looks like it's great, and it looks like it's growth, and it looks like it's a lot of opportunity. And, actually, you sort of implode because people have have had habits of knowing everybody and doing everything, and, and and that's why we're looking at leadership like As as the art and science of how are we a network, which leaders at the top, and then which leaders report to that leader at the top, And how does everybody else roll up in our get we gotta get all those boats rolling in that same direction whether we're 10 people or now a100 or now a1000.
Matt Jones:
Yep. And I think it's really like, that's really important that people understand as far as the that that direction they're heading in, Like, the company outcomes, like, what the company is working towards and how they're positioned within the like, we get this all the time, you know, when people are like, well, I've Performance reviews and things like that. Oh, I've done this, and I've done I I've achieved these KPIs. You're like, yeah, but your department hasn't. And let I understand that, you know, that they're they're part of a bigger picture. It's not just one one position. You know, it's like a whole business that has to move And being successful in one area and and every everywhere else falling over is not a is not a not something you get remunerated on. You know? So No.
Margie Oleson:
And when we talked last time about being a high performing leader and having a high performing team and a high performing leadership team, the it's It's really about you get to the point where you are discussing things, like, that you've never talked about before. So what you I hear you describing is some confusion and chaos that only resides when people are not communicating effectively. But as you start to put those systems and processes in place that we know about, that we just it's really hard to make these changes unless you go after it and commit to it. Invest in it. Commit time and and energy. Then once you start to do that, what you're talking about gets To at least it either gets solved automatically because there's more clarity about what people are supposed to be working on, but also there might be some stubborn or some old culture habits or whatever, but at least you can start to talk about them with each other. I think there's a lot of, below the surface Questions, concerns, grief, complaints That once you put in place more transparency, once people are a lot more clear about what they're supposed to be working on, not because they want to Necessarily, not because it's their pet project, especially if we're not serving that clientele anymore, that needs to stop then. If you if you're still commit you're saying yes The customers for that particular product or service, and we said we weren't doing that, we get to the point where we can start to talk about that openly, and those things start to solve finally as well. And it just feels good to get to the point where you're a part of a team. It's it's it can be lonely. It can be, You know, it can be fun to not have to answer to somebody when you're on a team, but I tell you what, that lack of success, not fun at all. There is something about Succeeding you you have way more chance of being having great results when you have the the the collective mind, The collective talent, the collective intuition, the collective experience. And once you've experienced that for a while, that kind of success, it really is something that most of us wanna keep doing. I remember in my earlier life in corporate America, people would be on these big projects. So let's say your company had 5,000 people, and there was this transformation. And let's say a 100 people they they went off their day jobs and they went, and for a year and a half, they were on this project. K. So now they're doing this project, this big transformation. Maybe they maybe it was a move to another building, or maybe it was a new system, or maybe it was, developing a new product. So I was always fascinated by in the the auditorium at the very end when they did the closing ceremonies for the Suss that they had, and they did the retrospective on here's what it was like, and they showed pictures of all their working sessions and late nights, and And and we didn't think we could make it and the change the change plan the change management plan. And on the stage, people are crying. Not not Not just 1 person, lots of people in aeronautics, in restaurant management, in agriculture, and I'm I the the so I'm thinking, What is happening here? And then I realized it because I went back to school to try to understand what's going on in organizations. They're crying Because for the 1st time as an employee, they're a part of a team that's winning. They're a part of a team that doesn't have politics. They're a part of a team that doesn't have a bully. They're a part of a team that has clarity about what they're supposed to be doing. It's not even their decision, And they feel good about that finally because now they know what they're supposed to be doing, and the leader made sure the owner made sure they had the training they needed. They had the equipment they needed. They had the certifications they needed. So all the things that we should be doing with teams, not just for 18 months, all the things that we can put in place day to day, People want that. We're hardwired to be social, but, also, it just feels good to succeed, and it and we succeed much more readily together.
Matt Jones:
Yes. It's it's a, and I suppose to parlay that into into the trades wheel, like, specifically, like, when our client of ours Who's had oh, actually, truthfully, many clients of ours had go through this This evolution, especially when they start working with, you know, like, a coach or someone who's there to help them scale well, essentially, Inflict change. Right? Like, that's basically what coaches do at one level or another. They're there to inflict change. And, you know, the you the the scenario where you've got Really super common in the trades. You've got, like, 1 super well, good performing, sales Technician, right, whose numbers are always better than everyone else, but he's, like, insanely reluctant to Lift the rest of the team within. Like, wants to hold on to that, you know, instead of, like, the rising Taj, you know, lift all the ships kind of things. You know? And and that and that creates this cultural, like, Slime in the business, really, because, essentially, you've got, you know, like, there's this animosity that appears with the other the other salespeople because they they wanna achieve Better, but and I've got someone over here who could seemingly help them do it, but they don't because they think, actually, they're protecting their own interests when the reality is They're fundamentally damaging it, and I've seen time and time again over and over and over and over, these those types of people be Well, removed from the business because of that mentality. And I don't have that interest on The overarching business is all about them, and I think they're protecting themselves, but they're actually not. And and a really common example is another one is when you've got Somebody who's been in a business, say they're a a carpenter or whatever, and they've been doing it they've been in the business for 15 years, and they're doing it their way. And then you introduce a new way of doing things, and they refuse to do it because they've been doing their way for so long. They're kinda stubborn, and they've been there the longest, and they've got this, You know, this this mentality around it, which is very hard to manage and often results in them, you know, being moved on.
Margie Oleson:
So I let's take the 2nd example first, and then let's go back to the sales tech person. So if you have a carpenter who's been doing things a certain way, We if I'm the manager, I supervisor, whoever is the leader, I can just think about a little mini change plan without having to say it out loud or sound like I'm all theoretical, And I need to explain the why to them, and I may not even say here's why. I may just realize That if I think of their little world that they live in and the journey that they're on, they might they're gonna need information about what is the difference. Why why am I asking you to do it differently? And so it's an introduction to information and using that 7 times 7 ways. And it's It's taking them along, and it's telling a story about when I've done it differently or how I had to you know? Yes. I used to do it that way as well, or I can see where you've had success, and it needs to take be more than 1 conversation. And then you can just operate a little communications plan over the next period of time To really give them a chance to weigh in and tell you what they're thinking about and what they're wondering, what questions do they have that you can answer? Because sometimes A question unanswered, it makes someone lean back, and they can do that for weeks or months when if they just got the question answered, they'll lean in. And so but it but you have to have the confidence of a leader who really will say it's not an option to not do this unless it is. So if they've been doing it this way 15 years and it's okay for them to keep doing it the old way, that's different. But if you really need to do a bet this way because of codes or because of safety or because it's the way your business has chosen to take this direction, you talk about it in that way, You bring on other people. They do it that way. Then they don't have the option. So then it's about how to help them make that change.
Matt Jones:
Yeah.
Margie Oleson:
And then related this back To the sales tech. So I see a couple different situations with that sales tech. One is, in companies where there are Groups of people impacted by each other. It is amazing how many companies hold on to bullies because they're so good at their work Or they're bringing in so much money. Or and they're toxic. Their behavior is terrible. And and Everything that happens for an individual in the workplace that's being filtered through is what we're rewarding. So if I'm a sales tech and I'm being rewarded for what I'm doing that's working well, then to ask me to also Help other bolts rise. I'd have to be rewarded for that, and that doesn't necessarily mean compensation. It means expectations are clear. That's what we're doing, And, here's how we're gonna do that and then get to the point where you're kinda talking about it openly. Sales is a place Where people are not talking openly, that that's like a closed system that can benefit from much more transparency, much more, A fewer undiscussables, much more discussables. You should leaders should get comfortable talking about, are we really gonna pay them more and not have them let? No. There should be some incentives. There should be some programs for how do all those boats rise, and then individuals can make a choice. I don't wanna help people's boats rise, but what I have found in the workplace is many times that sales tech is glad to help. But the only thing they've ever known is it's gonna affect my bottom line, and I don't have the time for this. I've I've got I've got my grandpa living with us, and I'm helping with their health, whatever. So when you can have the open conversation and when you're looking at, does your reward cover the behaviors that you're looking for? Are you in are you building in place systems and processes that stand up the types of behaviors you want your people to have, do they hear about it when they're doing it? Do you talk about openly, and do they see you doing it? Do they see the head of sales Acting like that. Do they see the head of sales operates in a silo? Oh, I'm just bringing money in. I'm bringing in customers. They can't touch me. No. If the op if the head of sales is All boats rise, and they're helping the people over in this department and this department. That becomes a part of the culture. Those are habits that change.
Matt Jones:
Mhmm. Yeah.
Margie Oleson:
But the there there needs to be an absolute no bully policy. It is amazing to me how many bullies there are out there, And, you know, a bully only is strong in, when there's no power, when they have when when they're it's they're not Getting sunlight into the situation. It's not open and honest. And so companies get worried that if they get rid of this one Toxic person. Yeah. They've heard complaints or whatever. If they lose them, they're going to have all of these negative impacts. But but here's what I find. Pull that first of all, work with that person. I've seen people turn around, and they actually weren't the type of person that was so they just weren't in a situation where it wasn't working, but when you pull them out because that's the best because they're not gonna be able to make the change, Other people step up and get a lot more successful, become a lot more performing because it it's been unleashed. They haven't had that opportunity because they've been hiding or it's just not been in the culture. So you don't have to do that scarcity argument. We have to keep this person because they're the Carpenter on the team. Nope. They're actually probably getting in the way of clients and more money if you keep them.
Matt Jones:
No. That's right. Yeah. And I suppose that's that that's that uncomfortable and uncertain Moment as the leader where you're like, okay. Well, when we need like, on paper, we know we need to move this per per person on, but then we also need to fill the gap.
Margie Oleson:
Correct. And, again, when you put in systems and processes to be a more high performing team and the leader is really leading, you actually have time to have those conversations. The things that look so completely unsolvable, big, medium, and repetitive, You don't know that they're unsolvable until you put in place conversations that are working, meetings that are effective. You're literally managing the change in a way that is practical, and it's you're you're planning for it the way you would plan a move from 1 house to an to an apartment or from one location to another In your personal life, if you're as methodical about the changes in your area in your work area, you put in place some of those things, you you will Free up time, and you will have conversations with each other that are much more informed, much more creative, that actually create and do new problem solving, and you weren't doing it before, so you didn't even know. And the big challenge for leaders is they're not talking about this with each other at you know, when they're at dinner or they're on you know, they play A sport together in the evening or they're on a volunteer committee, nobody's talking about leadership. They might be talking about, My workers, I can't you know, workers have this problem or I'm having this, but they're not saying nobody taught me how to be a leader. Nobody told me what the systems and processes should be. I didn't even know what change management was. Once you become much more, you know, practical in putting these in place, the art and science of it, you will start to do things very differently and solve problems that you have not even known you could solve
Matt Jones:
before. So where do you start with change management? I mean, in the interest of, I suppose, getting to wrapping this episode up, like, what's the what's the framework For from ground 0 to, you know, delivery management.
Margie Oleson:
Yep. So it starts with there's a just a listing, and you can Google. ProSci is a big change management organization. You can download a lot of their free resources. You can just Google change management or whatever is your favorite search engine, And then you can find tools, but the start with just a 1 page document that says, what is changing? Here's the from, And here's the 2. Why? Because and you're gonna be creating documents so that you can use it. You're gonna use them over And over and over again, and you're gonna build more. Okay? Why? Who is involved? Who are the ones that are gonna have experience the change? Who are the ones that need the help with the change? And sometimes they're in both camps. What is the schedule? So when's it gonna happen? And then so and then, who's working on the change management? So you wanna make sure that you have somebody who has it on their day to day schedule to kinda monitor the change management, Make it a thing. And then your leaders are all change managers. Even if they're a carpenter or they lead a sales team, they're all change managers every single day. So if you have an employee that leaves the company, that's chain someone's doing change management. K? So you wanna identify on that 1 pager who are the people that are gonna be making this happen. Then you start to you go into a room or a virtual room and you start to brainstorm all of the things that have to happen to make this change successful. And then you're gonna add to that list over and over. You're just gonna keep that list alive. You're gonna you know, it's gonna you're gonna have better ideas later. Are some things you're gonna say nowhere and some things you forgot. But meanwhile, you're gonna start to then make those into categories, Theme them. You know, put them into buckets for, who takes which department handles these changes and which departments handle the the these ones And and then create your way for knowing how it's going. Are you gonna bring it up every meet every week in your leadership meeting? Are you going to, send out a a a newsletter on Fridays that gives the 3 high points of what we did this week? And then here's what's coming up next week, and here's a video that you can watch, a link to a video, and here's a if you wanna see the location, let's say it's a move. Here's here's some pictures, some from architectural drawings or something, And then run a project plan around that schedule and the what and the who and have someone then Keep bringing it back to the leaders to to start to then inform them, equip them with communications to share with their people. Even if it's a 1 on 1 standing next to their truck. Oh, yeah. Here's what's happening. And then I'm gonna hand you this document, this postcard, or I'm gonna send you an email. That email. You're gonna see more things, and you're gonna see a link. And then I'm gonna check with you next week at our meeting, and I'm actually gonna pull up the link, and we're gonna look at it together, our our team of 6. Meanwhile, all the brains are starting to engage because it's it's you're getting to 7 times 7 ways. And just make sure you have somebody who is Overseeing all of that, and they report directly into the leader to say how it's going along the way. Interesting.
Matt Jones:
So it just all lives on a document that everyone can see.
Margie Oleson:
It it they don't have to see that. They're gonna start to see pieces that you pull out. There might be a time and place
Matt Jones:
where allegations or the accountability.
Margie Oleson:
And there might be a time and place where, communication needs to tell the story of why. You don't always have to tell the story. Get the why known. And once it's known and then really known and then really known, Then you can say you can talk about the why less. As soon as people really are grounded in the why okay. So then the what. What what is it, what is it, and what is it not? Sometimes You'll literally see emails or word documents or a postcard or a PowerPoint presentation that says, here's what it's not. We are not gonna do this. We are not gonna add this. We are not gonna take away this. That's a very powerful way to learn something, And then you keep bringing those back. And so someone's just managing it in an Excel spreadsheet or, maybe you're you're you've got, you use Word or PowerPoint or paper and pen, notepads, and and you're just methodically working it through like a project And then keep coming back to leaders to say where it's going well and where we need to dial up. We need better communication. Actually, we're not doing well at all. Something's missing. Let's go let's go. So then I, as a practitioner, would go interview people. Just ask them 5 questions. What what's happening? Do you know about the check? I I test people. What's changing? By when? Who's involved? And you can find out pretty quickly. They don't even know. Well, that's why they're not engaging with you because they don't even know. They're not preparing because they don't even know. Or I'll send just a 5 question, email survey without it being a big deal. Oh, yeah. That came through my phone. Oh, yeah. I filled it out, which is, do you know when we're leaving? Do you know what is gonna happen with your you know, maybe not specifically that informally, but we ask a few questions. And then we take that information and we go back to leadership And we say, oh, okay. Looks like we're making some ground on penetrating their brains on these 3 things. They don't realize this at all, or it sounds like questions, let's do a lunch let's do a pizza lunch and answer some questions. So it becomes kind of a project that you it just unfolds as you get closer and closer and closer to whatever that final date is.
Matt Jones:
Mhmm. No. That's great. Awesome. Great. So can you maybe just before we wrap up, just let the listeners know once again where we can Get ahold of you. Again, guys, everything will be in the show notes, but, we'll just get Margie just to run through.
Margie Oleson:
Yeah. So I'm Margie dot Olson, It's o l e s o n, a silent e. I'm on LinkedIn. I have all kinds of free resources to help you with your meetings, help you with communication and your team cohesion, And then you can go to my website, olsondashconsulting.com, oles0ndashconsulting.com, and download videos and articles and Case study where you see these things come to life. We have top team accelerator to help, companies really put in place very methodically these systems and processes to turn that ship, and I'm glad to help out.
Matt Jones:
Amazing. Thank you so much for your time. This has been such a good episode. And once again, guys, if you missed out on the episode. Go check that one out. That was about conflict resolution. There'll be links to it all in the show notes. So, yeah, please go and make sure you check those out. And, guys, if you have any more questions, if you have any experiences about anything that we've discussed. If we haven't covered anything that you would have wished we did, please let me know I am sure Margie will come back on the show and answer some more in-depth questions in relation to that, so don't be shy. Anyway, that's enough For today, Margie, thank you once again for your time. And
Margie Oleson:
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Matt Jones:
That's a wrap.