Innovating the Pizza Dining Experience: A Conversation with Mellow Mushroom's Technology Leader

In this episode of the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast, Jeremy Julian, Chief Revenue Officer for CBS Northstar, interviews Ahsan from Mellow Mushroom. They discuss the unique aspects of Mellow Mushroom, a casual dining brand based in Atlanta that offers a distinct spin on pizza. Jeremy shares his love for the brand, and they delve into topics around restaurant industry success, choosing technology partners, and competing both digitally and in-restaurant as they approach 2025. Ahsan shares his atypical journey from management consulting to his current role, highlighting his focus on customer and employee experience, the importance of technology and data, and the brand's response to digital transformation accelerated by COVID-19. The episode also explores Mellow Mushroom’s efforts in franchise development, menu innovation, maintaining a balance between in-dining and off-premise services, and creating a cohesive brand experience.

00:00 Mellow Mushroom

00:14 Introduction to the Episode

01:09 Guest Introduction and Background

01:45 Journey to Mellow Mushroom

03:54 Role and Responsibilities at Mellow Mushroom

04:46 Brand Evolution and Refresh

05:35 Core Values and Guest Experience

14:42 Digital Transformation and Challenges

21:01 The Goldilocks Zone of Pizza

21:23 Enhancing Off-Premise Experience

21:51 Profitability and Food Quality Challenges

23:21 Innovative Menu Offerings

23:59 Unique Flavor Profiles and LTOs

30:06 Local Favorites and Customization

32:32 Franchising Opportunities and Expansion

35:40 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

0:02

This is the Restaurant Technology Guides podcast, helping you run your restaurant better. In this episode, I talk with one of the leaders at the Mellow Mushroom. For those that are not familiar with Mellow Mushroom, it's a casual dining brand based in Atlanta that has a very unique spin on the pizza market. I love their food and he and I talk quite a bit about how every time I travel and run into a mellow mushroom. It is one of my favorite places to go visit. We talk a lot about what it takes to make it in the restaurant space, how they choose the proper technology partners, and what it looks like to compete both digitally and in restaurant in 2025. If you don't know me, my name is Jeremy Julian. I am the Chief Revenue Officer for C CBS Northstar. We wrote the North Star Point of Sale solution for multi-units. Please check us at cbsnorthstar.com and now onto the episode.

Jeremy Julian: 1:01

Welcome back to the Restaurant Technology Guys podcast. I thank everyone out there for joining us, as I say each and every time. I know you guys got lots of choices, so thanks for hanging out. today I am joined by and he and I were talking prior to the show. You guys will get to hear the passion that I have for the brand, but, but, Ahsan is works for the Mellow Mushroom, but I, his role is super unique and for those people that aren't familiar with that brand, I'm excited to have him share a little bit about where they're at, where they've been and where they're going. But why don't you give our listeners a little bit of background. Tell me about your background.'cause I love your title. I love what you get to do. and I think it's one of those, one of those things that way too many restaurant brands don't invest enough in the things that you get to do.

Ahsan Jiva: 1:40

first of all, Jeremy, thanks for having me on. and I wish our, our HR team could hear that Little bit more than what I'm already getting. so my journey was, is pretty non-typical for, atypical, I should say, for most restaurant executives, out there. So my career started in management consulting where I was, working with Fortune 100 companies, really focused on the customer experience aspect of. Of the entire journey, right? So that's everything from how you acquire a customer, how you maintain that relationship, and how do you prevent churn. And obviously all of that leads to top and bottom line performance improvements. but that specific lens of really the user, and that can be an employee too, right? It doesn't have to be your customers only the lens of the user and leveraging technology and data as an accelerator to improving that experience. that's what I focused on, in my career before, before I joined Mellow. I went to, I went to Auburn University and we have a mellow mushroom there, so shameless plug for my alma mater. war Eagle. I was a guest, a lot, especially during pint night. and it just over time I just kept going back, and I didn't, as a college student, even though I had a job, didn't have a lot of money, but still wanted to spend my few bucks that I had at Mellow. and that's really what was really, intriguing to me because I. most other brands, most other food establishments, you go there, you have a good time. you make it as part of your rotation every few months or so on. for this one, it was always, I gotta go back there every week. I, I gotta have that product again. And that's really what made me like, okay, this, there's something here. after college I did my management consulting route and then I got an opportunity to meet with, with the founders. actually I was just dining at a mellow and they happened to be sitting next to me at the bar, where are the, what are the chances of that? so we just started talking and then, I guess serendipity happened and, I. I decided that, I think there's a lot of learnings that I've gotten over my career in management consulting, especially looking at it from different industries, right? So I did everything from supply chain and logistics to media and entertainment, automotive even, but really not ever in the restaurant industry. my perspective coming from the outside of the restaurant industry, I thought was a distinct advantage, because I wasn't coming in with any sort of assumptions or preconceived notions about the way things should be or the way things are. Now did I obviously, joining an industry, I studied up on it, but, it, it just gave me a different perspective than I think a, that our founders and our executive team at that time were looking for. I joined Mellow about five years ago. really started, at the director level. worked on, really modernizing our digital footprint, and that's everything from how our, guests use our brand from online ordering, the guest facing side of things to the back office systems. And then like I mentioned earlier, the data accelerator part of it. we didn't have a BI system and when I joined, and one of my first things I did, which by the way was two months before the Covid COVID-19 pandemic hit, so it was like. Great timing or bad timing, however you wanna say it. But, that's what I focused on, is really developing our business intelligence function, modernizing where we were digitally because we knew that's where the industry was headed, and then boom, covid hits and that accelerated even more. So good thing we had made some investments, we were continuing to make investments in that area. and then, over time my roles and responsibilities have sort, obviously grown and, most recently. over the last two years, we've really modernized our brand in many different ways. one from a brand refresh. So we, launched our biggest ever brand, brand refresh, everything from our, colors, logos, who we stand for, our mission, vision, and values. and all of that sort of culminated in a new. what we call a fast fine prototype that we launched. our first one opened up in Grant Park in Atlanta, so right in our backyard where we started. That opened up in November. and really gave us an opportunity to try all sorts of new things, both from a menu side and experiential side, a technology side, and also from an investment side for. for our franchisees and our potential future investors. so that's what I do now. I still oversee all of our technology initiatives, all of our data and analytics initiatives. And then, what's excited me the most recently is really our franchise development initiatives that we're working on. so that's what I do today.

Jeremy Julian: 5:34

Yeah. No, and the thing that I love that you said as you were going through your story is just how much you guys take a focus both on the franchise community, how is the restaurant operator gonna operate this system to get the data that you guys need to make the decisions and. Ultimately, how is it gonna impact the guest? I see way too many people that come on or way too many technological innovations that happen, but they don't put the guest or the staff member at the center of it. I'd love a little bit of insight before we talk about what is Melo mushroom for those that haven't been out at, the a hundred plus stores that you guys have in the us. but I'd love to get inside of your brain as to how and why you think that way. Because, and maybe it's just'cause you came from a different industry and you're like, you know what? I've gotta think this way, but I love that your thoughts are there because technology, and you hear me say it on the show all the time, for those long time listeners, technology for technology's sake does nothing. Technology that enhances the guest experience and or the staff experience and ideally both and drives profits to the bottom line are the ways and the times that you should be investing. So I'd love to get behind your thought process real quick before we dig into kind of introducing Mellow to, to the rest of the, the listeners that are out there.

Ahsan Jiva: 6:38

Yeah, Jeremy, I'm an avid listener, so I've heard you say that many times and I wish I could plaster that all in my technology here in our lab environment.'cause it's a hundred percent spot on. And the way I like to think about it is, if you're end user, whoever that may be, right? That could be your employees, it could be your gm, they. Could be, your franchisees, it could be the guests. If they're not ready for what you are trying to implement from a technology standpoint or the experience standpoint, it's gonna fall flat and it's just an a investment that you're making that's not gonna go anywhere. the way I like to think about it, and that's why I like to preach to our team, is. you have to put yourselves in the shoes of the person you're trying to solve the problem for. So a lot of times, we see, I talk about this with other folks that I've, in the industry is, chasing that shiny object, right? AI is a big one out there today. everyone's trying to chase what is AI gonna do for me? And when I, when people talk to me about that, the first question I ask them is, how are you doing at the basic level, right? So are you, do you have the foundation at a basic level to provide a great experience, make your customers or your guests happy? And then if you have all those basic things, which a lot of you know, brands, and, we were one of them and we still, we're still working on our foundation things too. that's just the nature of the business. But if you don't have a strong foundation to build from and you're just chasing after that shiny object or that shiny piece of technology, you're not gonna be able to really solve the root problem that you were supposed to be solving for. So the first questions always start with why. I love, I'm not sure if you're Simon Sinek, but. Know, great leader and a great way to think about, why are you doing something? Who is it that you're trying to solve a problem for? What is a problem that you're actually trying to solve? And actually, instead of sitting in, in our offices or somewhere else, let's go to where the problem is, right? So if it's something that we're trying to solve for the gm, let's go to our restaurants, let's talk to the gym, let's. Put it's live a Life. Live. Live a day in their life, basically, and see what they're experiencing before we try to say, this is the solution, because without their input, whoever that end user is, without their input into the solution, it's gonna be an incomplete solution no matter how good the team is behind it.

Jeremy Julian: 8:29

I, I love that saying, and, our CTO has a saying, it looked great on the whiteboard,

Ahsan Jiva: 8:34

Right.

Jeremy Julian: 8:34

because there's a lot of projects that look great on the whiteboard, but then when they get to actually execution it, it doesn't happen. So talk me through what is Melo Mushroom? And again, I'm an avid fan, so I don't, I might get all giddy here, sitting here thinking about it and craving some pizza and, or some of the other products. But, it's a very unique name. and I know even the restaurants that I've been to and I've been to, half a dozen around the country, they're all, they all have a lot of the same elements, but they're also a little bit different. So I'd love for you to talk our listeners through maybe even the backstory of where did it come from and where's it at today.

Ahsan Jiva: 9:03

I like to say we're probably the best kept secret in pizza even though we're not all that secretive anymore. because we are at over 160 location across 16 states, whereas far West as Arizona. we started in Atlanta and I'll talk a little bit more about our founding, but we're also, up the eastern seaboard as far as Virginia, and in the Midwest, a little less But, we've grown in concentric circles really around where we were founded, which is, in Atlanta, Georgia. I'll be quick with this backstory, but let's rewind the clock. 1974, so it's been actually 51 years since we first started serving pizza. and as you can imagine, in the mid seventies it was still the energy from the sixties and that free spirited thinking, and everything that was fueled by, love for one another, acceptance, music, art, culture, self-expression, break the rules, all of those things were a backdrop into how we got started. And our founders, there were three founders. They, they all came from Georgia, university of Georgia and Georgia Tech. They met at working at a pizza joint in college. and that backdrop I mentioned was really, ingrained in their DNA. and really what they wanted to do was they didn't wanna work for the man. They didn't want to go corporate America. They wanna do something on their own and working at a pizza joint, they were like, man. We can sell pizza, we can make pizza, and we can do it in a way that's really, in an environment that invokes that community and that invokes, that happiness, that everyone was craving at that time. and so that's how we got started. we were, Melo Mushroom was born as a product of the Times, and really as a unapologetic celebration of really high quality food that's extremely craveable. And, you're a perfect example of that'cause you're, you're going all over the country and. And trying the different restaurants that we're in, and the different venues that we're in. but really it's that celebration of that food, the art, the music, and the community. and the way I like to think about it now, after 51 years of existence is we're really trying to invoke all the senses, right? So a lot of brands, focused on the food or focus exclusively on the brand image, but we like to think about it like, the food has to be good. It has to be. that's a given. and in reality, a lot of brands can do that, right? if you were to invest, I call it investment'cause you're investing one or two points in your food cost, you can get really high quality food even if you're not doing so today. So what sets us apart, and I think you alluded to this, is really the environment that you're in, right? we were always, a restaurant brand that wanted you to feel like you could escape from the mundaneness that's surrounding us today. and actually it's funny, I was reading an article the other day where color is disappearing from everything, right? Everything is becoming a neutral palette for everything. And I look, I see this in restaurant design now. Everything's that gray in the browns and things like that. And that's really what sets us apart is, we, I. Most recently developed a color palette that we're actually using. And think about that for a brand that's been around for 50 years and almost 200 locations, not having a color palette, right? Why? Because we didn't want to be that cookie cutter brand that everyone else is doing, right? We didn't want to stamp out meow mushrooms everywhere that looked the same, that feel the same. So what we do today as a brand and have done for a long time, is we are an expression of the community that we operate in. So every restaurant looks different. Every restaurant feels different. There is, there's different art, there's sculptures, there's murals, everything that's a reflection of. some of it's a reflection of our franchisees and what their passions are, but also the community itself. but one thing that has, remained true over the last 50 years is that really that what I call the passion for pizza, perfection. I think alliteration helps people remember things, but and that's what our founders believed in day one, and we have not sacrificed that or changed that at all over the last 50 years. And in fact, we actually continue to evolve that. Even if, let's say that there isn't any complaints about, a particular ingredient, we're always looking for ways to say, how do we make this even better? Because we know that craveability and that bulletproof product is what our founder like to say. That's what's gonna keep people from coming, keep people coming back. Then you add all the other elements to it, the music, the lighting, the atmosphere, the sculptures, the art, and that creates your entire unique, completely rounded experience. And that's what we're all about.

Jeremy Julian: 13:01

Yeah, no, and I, and, having been to a number of the stores, as I said earlier, they are all very unique. The service is great. something you didn't say, but, all it's casual dining environment. So you're sitting down at a table primarily, which does play a part in kinda your digital transformation. And I want to dig into that here in just a couple minutes. But it is a table service environment. And as, as I said prior to hitting the record button, every time I've ever been, the service has been over the top friendly. And kind and engaging like the service staff and I've been to Columbus, Ohio, Nashville, Tennessee, Phoenix, Arizona, like multiple different regions, different franchises. And this culture that you guys have created to create a, a place away from home that you can have a meal really is what I guess stuck out to me. Is that kind of part of your guys' core values? You talked about the fact that you guys have created these core values and reinforced them over the last few years. Is that what you guys are trying to get?

Ahsan Jiva: 13:52

Absolutely. one thing that I still trip up on it because I came from a background where, you know. You, we had customers, right? But when I joined Mela, it was like, no. We don't have customers. We have guests, right? And we treat people as if they're coming into your house because the restaurant is, our house. and a lot of the, everyone that's invested in the brand, all of our franchisees, that's how they make their living. So it is inviting someone into your own home and treating them. How you would treat them in your own home. And that's why, that's, we really harp on that because, we don't want to create transactional relationships. We want to create a real relationship with our guests. And hopefully, like you experienced, that comes out in all the different ways, whether it's dine-in or whether it's carry out or whatever the channel that our guests choose to use us in. that's really what the ethos and the sort of the bedrock of our brand is on top of, obviously great food quality and all the other things I talked about.

Jeremy Julian: 14:40

Atmosphere, music, all of that. talk me through just as you guys have thought about digital transformation. Why is it, clearly that's, you guys hit it right at the right time prior to the pandemic, but how has that morphed? Because it's hard to do digital, it's hard to keep up with brands that are much bigger, that have larger budgets. In the pizza concept. that's the other part is you guys are in the pizza space and you're having to compete with, the big three of, Domino's Pizza Hut and Papa John's. And then you've got some of the mid-size, the, some of those other ones out there. And, you're definitely not gonna be the cheapest always, but you've gotta figure out a way to be part of that transaction from a digital perspective and stay in the minds of those guests. Love to understand. How have you guys thought about that?

Ahsan Jiva: 15:21

Yeah. my perspective, when I joined the restaurant industry, I was surprised in many ways at The, I guess I wouldn't call it laggards in, in some of the adoption, but we definitely,

Jeremy Julian: 15:32

been the, I'll say it straight out. The restaurants are laggards, retail in general. G's even worse,

Ahsan Jiva: 15:39

yeah,

Jeremy Julian: 15:39

but they're laggards until the pandemic and then they had to accelerate. So I'll let you keep

Ahsan Jiva: 15:43

exactly.

Jeremy Julian: 15:44

I'll just say it. You don't have to be the bad guy. Restaurants are laggards as far as tech adoption and definitely as far as data and using data to make data-driven decisions we're awful at it as restaurateurs.

Ahsan Jiva: 15:53

Yeah.

Jeremy Julian: 15:54

I'll let you keep going.

Ahsan Jiva: 15:55

No, but thank you for taking that, that one for the team then. but yeah, we weren't at the forefront of adopting technology or adopting innovation. some brands obviously, the big three that you mentioned, domino is Papa John's Pizza Hut. they had the infrastructure, to be able to do for a brand that's our size and we're obviously growing and continuing to grow and, we'll talk about that in a minute. But, it's really where are you gonna spend your time, energy, and resources. Doing so you can't lose the identity of who you are. so I think, some of, for us it was, let's use that heritage that we have of being a really unique brand and let's bring that to the digital arena without losing who we are at the core, to me that was about making sure that our website reflected who we were as a brand. that made sure that as we were evolving our digital experiences that we were tapping into sort of the underlying. Frustrations that we have as consumers because we've all been trained now by the Amazons of the world to expect every single update of every single thing that we're doing with our products that we're purchasing, when we expect it, how we expect it, and then if it's not exactly that, we're annoyed. So it's understanding those fundamental things that are happening within the human psyche really. And then bringing that to the forefront of restaurant technology, but then picking and choosing, right? Like I said, we don't, they're, I wish I was young brands and had all the budget in the world to create the AI platforms that they're creating. most restaurants don't have that. So where are you gonna invest your dollars and your time, energy, and resources? And that's really where we start, pick and choosing, right? So say, okay, we know that, pandemic was an accelerator, so we know that we need to make sure that our digital experience is a top-notch. So where are we gonna invest? We're gonna create a custom front end. We're gonna make sure that reflects who we are. We're gonna make sure that we invest in kitchen display systems so we can actually track speed of service. Because to your point, being a laggard as an industry. some of that is just self-induced because the industry is just hard, right? There's, everything stops at five o'clock in most other industries, that's when we start, right? And we've still got a full day before that. So there's a lot of things going on and it's, and we ask our operators and our GMs to be everything. You're HR manager, you're a sales manager, you are a back office professional, right? You gotta do all these different things. So how do we take that and simplify it and really using the things like first principles, thinking right? And like stripping away some of the. Some of the assumptions and saying, what is really the true problem that we may have or the, experience that we're trying to solve for, and then making sure that we solve for it in a way that's not gonna lose the brand and the technology evolution and make sure that the investment dollars are gonna be something that we can actually tie back to a p and l.

Jeremy Julian: 18:23

Yep. and the fact that you think about the brand, I, I say this often again, as a listener, you probably have heard this is. Your tech and your experience need to match, what is it that you're trying to deliver? if, again, the Amazon experience, the Apple experience, the Google experience, all very different, all successful, but all very different.

18:43

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Jeremy Julian: 19:18

But they have a Dan, they have a brand ethos and I think all too often. Technologists, people that are in your space go, oh, let me go run off and do all of this cool stuff and it's great tech, but if it doesn't fit the brand image, you end up having a cognitive dissonance between what is the brand when I walk in and what is the digital experience? And if they don't match, you go, this doesn't make sense. So the fact that you thought through that I think is incredible. and again, that's probably. Not the easiest thing because to transition everything that you guys do in the store to a digital space is not easy because again, I've been to enough stores. The colors, the music, the, the decor, all of that is, is, is awesome that you guys have been able to do that. What have the results been? I guess in general? Have you guys converted, clearly during the pandemic you guys were probably 90 plus percent off-prem. Has, how has, how much of that has stayed? How much have you guys been able to maintain that and what has it done really to the bottom line for the franchisees?

Ahsan Jiva: 20:14

Yeah, Before the pandemic, we were, as you mentioned, we were casual dining table service. so about 80, anywhere between 70 and 80% depending on the market. We were an on-premise inside the four walls business, digital mix. and not unlike any other brands, it was less than 10%. Oh, everything combined, that includes, first party, third party, all that combined was less than 10%. I think it, when I joined, we were around 7%. That was our mix. obviously Covid happens, flips everything reverse, and then. Post Covid happens and that, that re rebalancing happens. So what we've seen is, we've seen about a four x increase, in, in off-premise, digital, off-premise. and what that translates to now is, our dining rooms, our dining room business has shrunk, but we've taken off on the third party in the first party, and. Part of that is because we're pizza, right? So if we were a steak over a steakhouse, right? Or if let's say we're Outback or something like that, it's much harder to take our pro, take that product off premise. Whereas pizza is naturally born for that kind of consumption. So we were in this good, goldilock zone where we had a great experience where if you wanted to get out of the house and do something unique and fun with either your friends or your family. Come to Mellow Dine in. But if you're just, running late, want to go home, eat with your kids' family, we're a perfect place for takeout too. So what that's really done for us is. That has evolved how we think about the footprint, right? That's evolved. How we think about how the guest journey is from the moment they park, how they walk in, where they go, what signage do they see? And we've been lucky in a way that, we have a lot of renewals coming up for our franchise locations. And that's what we're thinking about is, how do we not take that experience that we know is continuing to grow with off-premise and make sure that experience translates, and reduce those pain points and that friction, for the guests. Now when it comes to the actual profitability side, and I think every brand experiences this, at least everyone that I talk to, your off-premise, check average is higher anywhere between 10, 15, even 20% higher, than it is dine in. So from a profitability standpoint, it's a more profitable channel. It requires less labor to execute. But the flip side of that, and that's where we're focused on right now, is how does a food quality. get maintained, right? Because eating a pizza hot out the oven is not the same thing as eating a pizza that's been sitting in a box for 30 minutes. And I'll be the first one to tell you that, right? That's why we always say, Hey, take the pizza when you get home. Pop it in the oven for just five minutes, and I promise you it's worth that extra five minutes. so from a profitability standpoint, it's done wonders for us. it's definitely improved that, third party. It's. Always remains a little bit of a challenge because you have to it's a pay to play game. but you're really, what we are focused on today is how do we continue to improve the experience for off-premise? And we've done small things, even changing the liners in our pizza box that helps, with the grease, some of the grease, some of the moisture, some of the temperature issues that we can see. and that's, that's taken our pizza from being warm from eight to nine minutes now to 12 to 13 minutes. Even that difference can have a significant impact on the end user experience.

Jeremy Julian: 22:59

Yeah. and I continue to find more and more restaurant brands. Every time I talk to restaurant brands, they're struggling to figure out how to deliver the same product they have in the dining room because, getting somebody to order online is great, but if you deliver them a bad experience, they stop doing it. And oftentimes that guest, capturing that guest and bringing'em back is tough. And

Ahsan Jiva: 23:16

Absolutely.

Jeremy Julian: 23:16

quick before I go into kind of how do people grow with you guys? Talk a little bit about your guys' menu'cause it's pretty unique. It's not your standard pepperoni sausage, Hawaiian pizza. Like you guys have got some pretty unique flavor profiles. I'd love to, to get into kind of even just the ideation of that.'cause you guys got some really cool LTOs that I know you guys roll out on a regular basis. I show up there's some tabletop. There's new drinks, there's new, new pizzas. I'd love to, I'd love to have you share a little bit of that and what does that innovation process look like? Because again, you on the tech side and you on the innovation side, you've gotta be part and parcel to that. Maybe you're not in the oven, in the kitchen making the food, but you've gotta figure out how to deliver that, out to the store. help me understand what that looks like from a mushroom, melo, mushroom perspective.

Ahsan Jiva: 23:59

Jeremy, I'll tell one thing. I can make a mean pizza, by the way. Okay. So don't, no, that's a question because. cheese and pepperoni are always gonna be staples in the pizza segment. People, that's just, it's a standard. But really what we've done, and this is since our founding, there are some items on our menu that I still have a copy of our menu from 1978, and that was on the menu. so some of the items we've created have stood the test of time, which is hard to say for a lot of different, a lot of other pizza brands and a lot of other menu items. But the way we've approached it is, Anyone can make a cheese pizza. Now, there's different varying degrees of how good that cheese pizza is, by pepperoni pizza is, but everyone can make that. So what we did was we said, how do we take some of the flavors that you experience outside the typical pizza realm, right? So your Hawaiians, your, your mighty meaty, your, your cheese, your pepperoni, how do you take something that's not typically you think about from a pizza standpoint and put it on a pizza because pizza, it's a great canvas, right? Because you can make that taste however you want. things like buffalo chicken, right? So we have what's basically a buffalo chicken pizza, we know with bacon, with with with hot sauce and then with ranch swirl. So it tastes like you're eating it, dipping chicken fingers and buffalo sauce and ranch. we have funky Q, which is a barbecue style pizza. my favorite is the holy shiitake, right? and actually, speaking of LTOs, just yesterday we launched one of our biggest LTOs is called Taco Nirvana. So we basically taken the taco flavors that you everyone loves in this country and put'em on a pizza. So now we have, beef Taco Nirvana, chicken Taco Nirvana. We have a, a Taco Nirvana dip as well as our spiked mango margarita, right? And I'll talk about our bar business, which is just as good. As our food businesses. so the way we think about, creating new menu items is that first and foremost, it has to be craveable, right? If I taste it, do I want another bite or do I want to come back for this? If the answer is not yes, then you know, let's go in a different direction. the second thing is, it has to be something that only we can do, right? And I'm not gonna say that we don't do things that other brands do, like the hot honey craze, right? So we got hot honey pizza, but we do it a little differently. We take our pepperoni pizza, we put, whipped ricotta after we bake it, and then we put the hot honey swirl on top. So you get that nice bite of the spiciness, but then that cool off with the ricotta. So I know you're pepperoni guy. Next time you're in Mel Mely. Yeah, check that out, Jeremy.

Jeremy Julian: 26:08

enough, I went and looked. I, because we, the last time I was at the store, we had a 22 top, I, you and I were talking about it before I hit record. I had the buffalo chicken. I would've never ordered it, but it was fantastic. And I did have the hot honey, and I was like, so that's, you asked what I normally order. I normally order my pepperoni, because we had a large party. We ordered a, a dozen pizzas and just kinda everybody tastes and sample different things. So I had both the buffalo chicken and, that, that mushroom pizza. the, shiitake one. I did not get, of it, but we did get the, the cosmic karma

Ahsan Jiva: 26:38

Yeah.

Jeremy Julian: 26:39

That was freaking awesome. So just different, different feels, different looks. And, again, because we were with a large party, so yes,

Ahsan Jiva: 26:44

Yeah.

Jeremy Julian: 26:45

tried a couple of those unique pizzas that you

Ahsan Jiva: 26:46

And we have red sauce base. we have oil and garlic base, we have pesto base, all the different kind of, white base that you can think about. and actually the other piece, so that's the bottom of the pizza. Now that from a top standpoint, we also, do our swirls. So the swirl is swir, that extra kicker that you get that extra little flavor touch. that again, other brands have, I've seen some other brands, smaller pizza brands out there. They're trying to do something similar. but we were at the forefront of that. it's like, how do you make this pizza visually interesting? but also had that extra flavor profile, that you can't get anywhere else. but that's our pizza. But, pizza is not just all that we do. And you and I were talking about, from an appetizer, what we call munchies haha, standpoint, pretzel bites is another, big one that we take our legendary dough that, everyone you know, has come to love over the many years. and, make little bites out of it. Pretzels. and that extends into our salad program, into our burger program. Actually, I will say one of our hidden secrets on our menu is our burger. it's one of the best burgers you'll have.

Jeremy Julian: 27:39

That's tough. When I go to a pizza place, I struggle to order a burger, man. I look at it and go, do I, do I go to, do I go to Morton's and order the chicken? No, I'm gonna order the steak. Do I go to the burger place and order a, go to the pizza place and order a burger. But I was looking at'em when I was doing prep for our interview, and I was like, oh, that looks really good actually. So I'll have to

Ahsan Jiva: 27:57

and we always, regardless of whatever we're serving and on our menu, we always take the same approach, right? Craveable. It's gotta be something that is really good, and high quality ingredients, and it represents our brand well, and look, I'll be honest, that the burger from a pea mix standpoint is gonna boil outta water. No, of course not. but as you and I were talking, once you're. Eating the food all the time. I've been in the bus in Mellow for five years. I've had every pizza a thousand times. You want something else after a certain time. So for us, at least the ones that work here, the burger is fantastic. yeah. and when it comes to, other parts of menu innovation, we don't necessarily try to jump on the fat immediately, like Pickle Pizza was one of those things, right? The pickles, everyone's going, we gotta have pickle pizza, and then we put it on the market, in a small test and didn't do so well. we try to take a concerted approach. Not saying we're laggards in that, but we want to consider it approach of things that we can truly stand behind and be proud of. and that's really what our culinary ethos is.

Jeremy Julian: 28:48

and it goes back to your guest experience at the very onset, within minute two or minute three of our conversation, you're like, no, we have to focus on what the guest is gonna enjoy and make, make part of their experience. And so I love that. you opened the door, so gimme your standard menu item. That's your favorite.'cause I do like to ask the restaurant people that have been there for a couple of years, and we were talking again before I hit, hit record. What is your standard? Go-to, your one or two go-to items, or Actually I'll say it differently. If I've never been to a mellow mushroom, what would be the one or two things that you would have a friend that came in from outta town to experience the brand that you would say they should have this?'cause this is something that, that you think is just, that you guys star in as far as a product.

Ahsan Jiva: 29:26

So I will say, and I'll preface this by saying before I joined Melo, I actually didn't like mushrooms on my pizza all that much, right? I would actually, I was actually the guy that took the mushrooms off my pizza and gave it to somebody else to eat. So with that said, our holy shiitake pizza, right? And it's holy shiitake mushrooms, three different kind of mushrooms on there. So this is coming from a guy that didn't like mushrooms on his pizza, and now my favorite go-to item is our holy Shiitake pizza. It's by far one of our best ones. and then, from a hack standpoint, and actually this hack became a LTO item last year. I would add, jalapenos and steak to that pizza. So it's actually a vegetarian pizza that you can obviously customize to, the cows come home. But, I would add steak and jalapenos to that. So that's that's on the menu available everywhere. Now we also have locals only items. over the years we've created, hundreds of pizzas out there. so we actually let our franchisees select up to six menu items that are only available, in their local store. So that kind of creates that fun as you're traveling, as others are traveling, try different things that you may not get in any other mellow. So the other one I would say is the Magical Mystery Tour. that's one of my other favorite pizzas. it's a pesto base. and again, things you wouldn't think about that would be great on a pizza, right? jalapenos, mushrooms, spinach, and I'm a steak guy. I like my protein, so I throw a steak on that too. So that's usually what my go-to is, and especially with folks that are trying, trying the brand for the first time. the third one definitely is a buffalo chicken because I've never had someone say, I didn't like that pizza,

Jeremy Julian: 30:47

is funny'cause I'm not a normally and, our, VP of marketing, she's every time we go out, she wants the buffalo pizza and she'll order it. I'll be like, really? You're gonna order that again? but she loves it and, ultimately she was the one that hosted that dinner and so she, she got it and it was fantastic. real quick, just'cause you said some of the franchisees, anything unique that you think, is worth bringing up that a franchisee has brought up that you're like, I would've never thought that this works, but, it drove profitability or, some guess incidents that, that you're like, oh, wow. the feedback on this thing has been amazing, but we hadn't considered it.

Ahsan Jiva: 31:17

I think a lot of it is regionalized and, very specific to market. So I'll give you one example. We're talking about Columbus, Ohio and the Skyline Chili, right? So we actually, our franchisee up there wanted to offer a, skyline Chili Pizza. look, not, it's not for me, but I know how big Skyline Chili is in that market. and it did really well for them, so it's, and actually I won't say anymore because it's just not, it's just not for.

Jeremy Julian: 31:38

It is not for me either. it's not something that, that I personally would've, would've ordered on a pizza or otherwise. they have a lot of other products that I think are great, but, it's certainly something that the people in Cincinnati, they just, they swoon over that stuff,

Ahsan Jiva: 31:49

Yeah. Yeah. So I dunno what it's, I dunno what they put on that. So that's one example. very localized. we also used to have, a bayou blue, again, that was more in the southeast region, closer to the water. where it was shrimp, shrimp and blue cheese, was the two main ingredients there. Fantastic pizza. just very localized. and then we, almost every year or every other year, we run what's called a homegrown challenge. So we let all of our, kitchen staff, the thousands that work at a mellow, say, Hey, whatever ingredients you have in the kitchen, make whatever you want. And it's something that you feel like is good enough, submit it. We'll make it here in the test kitchen if it passes all of our quality. quality, checklist and all the other items, then who knows? It could be the next LTO. those two things come to mind, but I haven't had one that I'm like, you know what? This is so good that, that it's gotta make the main menu

Jeremy Julian: 32:30

Got you. I appreciate you sharing. so talk to me a little bit about where you would want our listeners to go. I know when you and I talked, it's like obviously dining there give, giving you guys feedback is a huge piece for those that aren't familiar with the brand. But I also know that you guys go to market in our franchise com, capacity. So help our listeners understand how could they engage with the brand, beyond just going and eating fantastic food and having great drinks.

Ahsan Jiva: 32:51

So do it to what you just said. So go check us out, right? order online, if third parties thing do it that way, or, the best way to do it's come experience this diamond because that's the best way to try our food for the first time. so definitely all of that. And then, I met, I touched on this earlier, as part of our brand refresh two years ago, one of the things that we did was we looked at where the consumer was headed, obviously. and that led us to what we're calling a fast fine prototype. so we actually opened this prototype, in November of last year and really take, we're table service and then we've created this sort of offshoot, it's still called Melo Mushroom, but it's a counter service model. So you still get some of those. Favorite items, like the holy shiitake, like the buffalo chicken pizza, but also some new unique items like the Pani, for example, which we coined, which is basically taking our pizza and making it more handheld. and, and a lot of other sort of new unique items that can be tried. that's a prototype that we launched in November and we're continuing to grow it. We're looking at expanding our footprint, across the Georgia and the Southeast market. And really, I think it's a great investment vehicle for those that are looking to diversify their portfolios. we had the full service table, service brand that can be supported in many, different areas. But this new fast, fine counter service model can also go into smaller markets, non-traditional markets, and all that good stuff. if, if any of your listeners are interested in that, obviously melo stream.com/franchising is the best way to get, to get in touch, with us there. But obviously if you want to try the food and you haven't already, ordered us online or visit us in the store,

Jeremy Julian: 34:10

Awesome. real quick, just'cause I know this comes up often when we're talking to people that are looking for franchises, are you guys looking for somebody that's an established restaurant brand that's just looking to fill per, pizza into their portfolio? Are you looking for somebody that, that is a brand new net new, owner operator, Chick-fil-A's model is very different than Burger King's model is franchising. Neither one of'em are wrong. they both have been very successful. But,

Ahsan Jiva: 34:29

absolute.

Jeremy Julian: 34:29

to understand, just for those listeners that are like. Yeah, I'd love to, I've already got this or I've already got that. or maybe it's the opposite and you guys are like, no, we're looking for lots of different things.

Ahsan Jiva: 34:37

Yeah, we're not the Chick-fil-A model. so we are the typical franchising model where you buy into the brand, you build your store, and then you're, you own it. And then, obviously there's royalty structures after that. in terms of the, franchisee profile, it's both, right? So it could be your existing multi-unit operators, and we have many of those today that are in different segments that wanna diversify and get. Bring pizza in their portfolio. but it's also, we also have a lot of other franchisees that, this was your first restaurant. But what we do ask obviously is that, if you are gonna be that kind of franchisee, then you have someone within your, your organization that has restaurant experience that's actually part of the franchise agreement. So we do want people that have. Either, the franchise background in restaurants or you're someone that in your support system or in your staff, on the franchise agreement that has that restaurant experience. I think for us a sweet spot is usually, if it's your first one, obviously I'm sure you're gonna open with one, but that three to five unit is our sweet spot. because we don't want to be, four, four, 4,000, 10,000 stores. That's just not who we are as a brand. we've grown very selectively over the years. and now we're opening that, up to more than just friends and family. We're opening it up a lot more. I think it's the culture fit that we wanna make sure that we get right. but we're open for business.

Jeremy Julian: 35:39

Awesome. I, again, from my perspective, it's, the food is fantastic, the service is fantastic. And yes, I've had people on the show that I'm like, eh, I wouldn't go back there if I had to. but, for, from a mellow mushroom perspective, it is definitely one of those brands that I really, I personally really enjoy and I love. That you guys have really put the guest at the center of the experience. It's not even a customer, it's the guest. They're the people that are coming in, that you guys are serving. So thank you for doing that. Thank you for the continued investment. Thank you for sharing the story. To our listeners, guys, I know you guys have got lots of choices, so thanks for hanging out. if you haven't already done so, please subscribe on your favorite listening platform or we are also on YouTube and make it a great day.

36:17

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